FIRST Video Game: Hammering out details

[Astronouth7303]

(From FIRST Video Game)

I would like to get this going, so I made this thread for serious discussion, specifically the pre-code details.

There are several things needed to be finalized for version 0.1 Alpha:
Structure of program
Language
The first game to be modeled
What 3rd party stuff are we using (engine, graphics interface, etc).
Everything else :yikes:

So far:
Language = MS VC++
Platform = Win32
Game = FIRST Frenzy (2004)

[Ryan M.]

What exactly will a player control? Will they be able to design their robot/controls and run it against the many AI robots, will it be an online type thing (cool, although maybe hard), will they just be able to pick one of several predesigned robots, possibly unlocking new ones as they do better? :)

--EDIT--
Pardon my ignorance if this has already been mentioned in the other thread. Don't read chit-chat much. :)

----EDIT-----
Some of this was already mentioned. Don't bother with those parts... :)

[Astronouth7303]

(These are my oppinions and not a consensus)
What exactly will a player control?
Either a robot or act as human player (depending on game modeled)
Will they be able to design their robot/controls ...
not in-game. Probably an utility for that. The controls probably will not be visible, but the LEDs will be. Dashboard?
... and run it against the many AI robots, ...
probably, though maybe not 'many'.
... will it be an online type thing (cool, although maybe hard), ...
probably, but not this version
... will they just be able to pick one of several predesigned robots, possibly unlocking new ones as they do better? :)
I don't think so.

Currently, I'm thinking about framework (Make a cheapy for debugging). I say come up with a robot standard, draw them later.

My goal for v0.1A is to be able to take a demo bot and drive it around a field, fairly realisticly.
*Include physics engine
*Import bots/fields from files
*render/control interfaced
*no configs, no AIs, no web/lan play (but framework for this should be in place, just values hard coded.)

[Pat McCarthy]

A few questions..
Will the user be able to assign commands to keys they chose?
Will the game support joysticks? ex: Microsoft Sidewinder

A suggestion..
Would it be possible to simulate an innovation first robot controller to control a robot in the game? And if the previous is possible, could a user plug their team's control station (directly from the innovation first tether port) into their computer to control the robot on screen? This would include the use of pots. in the control station.

Thats my $.02 I can't wait for the first release of the game!:D
-Pat M.

[Astronouth7303]

A few questions..
Will the user be able to assign commands to keys they chose?
Will the game support joysticks? ex: Microsoft Sidewinder

yes to both, but not initial releases, which will primarily be framework, a skeleton.

A suggestion..
Would it be possible to simulate an innovation first robot controller to control a robot in the game? And if the previous is possible, could a user plug their team's control station (directly from the innovation first tether port) into their computer to control the robot on screen? This would include the use of pots. in the control station.

yes, no. Half the point is to simulate a given FIRST game (the rest is to create another FIRST thing :D ). The joystick ports on the OI are mostly standard; If you plug in a custom box, the 4 analog and 4 digital inpusts will work, but LEDs will NOT (of course, this can be remmedied with a RS-232 box). As for directly plugging in the OI, probably not.

Thats my $.02 I can't wait for the first release of the game!:D
-Pat M.

[Ryan M.]

Would the game have an (possibly optional through settings) autonomous mode? IE, sort of like PCPat suggested, we would give the user the ability to program the robot is some way?

Maybe way too hard for now, but maybe in the future... :)

--EDIT--
Feel free to ignore me. I'm not helping much, am I? ;)

[Astronouth7303]

Would the game have an (possibly optional through settings) autonomous mode? IE, sort of like PCPat suggested, we would give the user the ability to program the robot is some way?
Depends on the target game. through your favorite IDE (translation: you need source code).
Maybe way too hard for now, but maybe in the future... :)
Not hard so much as a lack of anything to work off of.
--EDIT--
Feel free to ignore me. I'm not helping much, am I? ;)
some.

My last discussion on this.

[Devin L.]

any idea on when this might come out? i can't wait to see it :D

[Astronouth7303]

any idea on when this might come out? i can't wait to see it :D
When? I'll tell you when the SourceForge site goes up.

[Ryan M.]

Ok, so, since you are using VC++, I assume you'll use classes. So, some ideas:

Individual classes for all robots. You can do fun things with these, such as pass in the robot spec file in the constructor, and the class could read it in and configure itself.
Class for the game. This class would hold information on what teams which robots are on, where each robot is (maybe this could be a robot class function?), where balls are on the field, make sure robots follow rules, etc. Maybe even it could even read in rules/field structure from a file?
Depending on how you do the physics engine, you could have classes for various field components, such as balls, goals, etc. For example, with the balls, they could keep track of bounces and other movement, relaying it on to the game controller.


Just some ideas. And some of that is rough obviously, like who gets to keep track of where robots/other moveable field objects are. :)

Yeah! I was helpful (or I tried). :)

[mtrawls]

Hrm ... sounds like a pretty darn big goal. Some points that might be helpful to ponder.


Do you plan to let the user "build" his robot, or just have a few basic structures with room for light modification?
If you allow modification, how do you try to "level" the playing field (since you're not spending real money or real time doing it, something has to limit the robots and make them competitive)?
Do you plan on having AI bots to play against? Connect to other computers to get other human players in the game?
I assume this'll be real time. What type of physical simulation do you (realistically) expect?


With that said, I would refer you to Crystal Space (http://crystal.sourceforge.net/), a very nice graphics/gaming engine that has cross-platform support, 3ds max import abilities, and MS VC++ work files (which all sound like it would be useful with what you have planned ... aslo, they use to have a rudimentary physics support, but I don't know what's happened to it). And you might want to consider ODE (http://ode.org/), a pretty serious open source physics engine (for rigid bodies, which robots happen to be).

I'd take a good long hard look at the project, and try to come up with a reasonable set of goals. Remember that successful projects start out small and grow from there. The projects that start out with unrealstic aims tend to fail, as those contributing become disillusioned. Also, some sage advice from my limited experiences -- before you write a single line of code, have a very detailed outline of what the system will be like, to include class hierarchy and interaction, and other such details.

Edit: in regard to Texan's post, which happened to beat me ... I think it's a bit early to begin thinking about specific design issues. Start with a general outline of the project, to inclue non-coding issues too (e.g., a game's nice and all, but nothing without art ... and sound is pretty darn important too, and a whole slew of other issues). Then, work from there. Specific implmentation like what will be a class, etc., will come from the general design, and it's too early to say how you want to design the system. Or that's the way I see it, at least.

[Joe Matt]

Here's some of my thoughts....

-Focus first on the robots. Have a few robot types to choose from, then hammer out the kinks and other problems. Then add a custom robo feature, then add human player.
-For a first game, I'd either do Stack Attack or Zone Zeal, but mostly Stack Attack. The game has more action and less moving 'parts' to it.
-Use a language that is supported and can be ported to, Windows, Mac, & Linux.
-Start small, then go big. Don't have many textures or other things, then keep adding things till it's a great game.

[Astronouth7303]

When you say class, do you mean an instance, or a template? (and I'm probably murdering OOP jargon)
Ok, so, since you are using VC++, I assume you'll use classes. So, some ideas:

Individual classes for all robots. You can do fun things with these, such as pass in the robot spec file in the constructor, and the class could read it in and configure itself.
Class for the game. This class would hold information on what teams which robots are on, where each robot is (maybe this could be a robot class function?), where balls are on the field, make sure robots follow rules, etc. Maybe even it could even read in rules/field structure from a file?
Depending on how you do the physics engine, you could have classes for various field components, such as balls, goals, etc. For example, with the balls, they could keep track of bounces and other movement, relaying it on to the game controller.


Just some ideas. And some of that is rough obviously, like who gets to keep track of where robots/other moveable field objects are. :)

I think every physical object will be an instance of the respective class, while the Field controller will do what the real one does: trigger events on the field. The Engine will control physics, etc.

Anyone work at Id? :D ;)

[Ryan M.]

There are several things needed to be finalized for version 0.1 Alpha:
Structure of program...
I just took this and said what I thought he meant. :)

Personally, I feel that "good" graphics and sound are easier to figure out and add after the main, supporting stucture is made. I'm one the guys who likes to get it running, then make it cool. :)

--EDIT--
What's Id?

[Alex Cormier]

what will we be able to play it on?

[Ryan M.]

When you say class, do you mean an instance, or a template? (and I'm probably murdering OOP jargon)I'm meaning a defininition of a class, ie:


class robot
{
public:
void move(int feet);

};

:)

[Bharat Nain]

Look at Robot Arena 2, its been done pretty well for a robot game.
I would love to see something like this:
We play peer to peer with other FIRSTers about the present game
If we can get a whole bunch of clever programmers to create the game soon after the kickoff and play it online(or something), that would be simply awesome. We would actually be able to see the game. Then Fantasy FIRST might have to create a separate division for Online FIRST game? This rocks. Good job, see what you can do.

[Max Lobovsky]

I don't mean to be too pessimistic, but this seems to be quite a big project especially without any experience with 3d graphics. Even if you do some people with that kind of experience on board, writing a 3d game is hard to say the least. I suggest you review the possibility of making a mod for an existing 3d game first. Specifically, UT2k4 engine is now available for free for use in developing mods. The scripting abilities of UT2k4 are amazing, basically everything outside of rendering, physics (another awesome feature), and sound generation is done in a scripting language that is similar to java.

After rereading the license, I think it is very possible that we could release this for free provided it is not a "game". Speaking of which, I think it is unlikely that this will ever be made fun. Making a game is hard enough, making it fun is even harder. So, we can make a FIRST "simulation".

[Kyle Fenton]

You might also want to consider Flash.

It is cross platform, and it is very good with graphics.

[Astronouth7303]

Id software. makes Doom, Return to Castle Wlfenstein, Quake, and Doom 3.

[Astronouth7303]

Ok, in response to the 2 posts that beat me, I say we need some groups going:
A coding group that will create the framework and write/include the Engine.
A 3D design group that creates the 3D models (fields, bots, etc)

A releasable version I don't expect to be out for awhile (as far as coding goes). But I know I can't do this alone.

Does Crystal Space do input, or just physics? If we don't worry about portability, I know that DirectX covers everything as far as hardware interfacing.

[Astronouth7303]

You might also want to consider Flash.

It is cross platform, and it is very good with graphics.
Flash? It does 3d graphics? News to me.

[Max Lobovsky]

Id software. makes Doom, Return to Castle Wlfenstein, Quake, and Doom 3.
Sure there are lots of mod-able games. I just chose the one that everyone can get their hands on to mod and the one that we could potentially distribute for free. I'm sure it'd be much more difficult to adapt than Unreal, but there is also the Torque Engine which you can get a license for 100 bucks and then have access to source code and be allowed distribute derived games.

[Ryan M.]

Open source 3d engine, if you want it:
http://www.genesis3d.com/

Didn't really look much at it, but might work. :)

Read the lisence, looks good. :)

--EDIT--
Flash doesn't do 3d, as far as I know. Plus, it would be too hard to incorporate into a real game...

[Astronouth7303]

Sure there are lots of mod-able games. I just chose the one that everyone can get their hands on to mod and the one that we could potentially distribute for free. I'm sure it'd be much more difficult to adapt than Unreal, but there is also the Torque Engine which you can get a license for 100 bucks and then have access to source code and be allowed distribute derived games.
I was thinking more of profesional expertise.

[Mike Ciance]

wow, look what i started.... :D

well, i am still pushing for stack attack, but the majority (including Brandon Martus and JVN) have voted for FIRST Frenzy. maybe they know better than i do.

as far as publishers, here are soem companies that make very good games, and deserve consideration for us to approach about this:
-Nintendo
-Silicon Knights
-Activision
-Infogrames

once we decide on the game, we also need to decide which robots to include, (i would suggest having all the division champions) or if we will make up the robots

[Billfred]

IANAL, but I think you'd probably have to make new ones. It'd seem like a grey area here, but who do you ask for the green light to use a robot? The team? The team's school(s)? FIRST? What if one says no, but others agree?

And then what would you do for sponsor logos?

[Ryan M.]

IANAL, but I think you'd probably have to make new ones. It'd seem like a grey area here, but who do you ask for the green light to use a robot? The team? The team's school(s)? FIRST? What if one says no, but others agree?

And then what would you do for sponsor logos?Good points. I'm sure we could get permission to use robots of teams involved in this, then, we have to model them somehow, so creating more shouldn't be too hard... :)

[Bcahn836]

I would put a few already assembled on the game, but also let the player build their own. For example maybe model a robot off the championship alliance or something or a robot we all know. And as the game progresses allow the player to add different parts to play different strategies. I also like the idea of the sponser logos, i would also consider a mode to create logos.

The biggest thing is to show what FIRST is all about and what we the teams go through during a FIRST Robotics season.

This only my opinion as a gamer, i really don't know about all of programming and stuff like that. sorry

[Astronouth7303]

Here's how I imagine the final program will be:
The primary EXE will contain no data about speeific robots, fields, games, etc. it will just contain the framework to run it.
Every robot will have it's own file(s). This may (or may not) include driver's station, program, textures, and/or bot.
every game will have it's own file(s). this may (or may not) include the field, the mobile parts, the field control code, and/or textures.
every field may have it's own file(s). this may (or may not) include the field, the mobile parts, and/or textures.

This also allows for custom fields; like a street practice, the wood field, a brand-new field, or a well used field.

I think there should be seperate utilities for creating/editing these files.

[I personally do not like the 'earn stuff by winning' idea.]

[Ryan M.]

Here's how I imagine the final program will be:



The primary EXE will contain no data about speeific robots, fields, games, etc. it will just contain the framework to run it.
Every robot will have it's own file(s). This may (or may not) include driver's station, program, textures, and/or bot.
every game will have it's own file(s). this may (or may not) include the field, the mobile parts, the field control code, and/or textures.
every field may have it's own file(s). this may (or may not) include the field, the mobile parts, and/or textures.
Hear, hear! Kinda what I said. It will read it in from some sort of file. :)

This helps to keep everything nice and clean. :)


This also allows for custom fields; like a street practice, the wood field, a brand-new field, or a well used field.
That's something I hadn't even thought of, fields that aren't "official." :)




I think there should be seperate utilities for creating/editing these files.

Definetly at the beginning. Maybe there would be an editor built in at a later point, but for now a simple external utilitie will work. :)



[I personally do not like the 'earn stuff by winning' idea.]
I don't like it much either. One reason would be that it doesn't simulate the real FIRST experience well. And, I don't like having pressure... ;)

[phrontist]

The way I see it you have two options:

1) Slave away, doing everything from scratch, and if you don't kill youself out of frustration produce a crappy game.
2) Use ut2k4!

Seriously, thats a very, very good suggestion. You're not going to top their physics!

Actually, for the ultimate in pimp-age, use Half-Life-2, which is/will be mind boggling. Ragdoll physics for human players :D

[Astronouth7303]

Or use a open-source engine.

[Heretic121]

i know i have said this before and others have brought it up also... with UnrealTournament 2k4, you get an editor to make maps and script with... the physics is already there, all you have to do is tweak it... everyone who used 3dsMax or Maya for the FIRST animation can make thier teams robot... the only problem with this is making a hook work or ball grabber or ball collectors... this would be coded in, which wouldnt take to much time when you learn it... Fields are easily made and can be configured in many ways... yes the robots would be diffrent files as would the fields... but i dunno how you would implement the human elemnt... its just something to throw around if things become to (something) in making your own proggy and physics... i could make the field/fields (i make maps atm for ut2k4) and show you what it would look like in game if you all want to see how it looks visual wise =D

[Ryan M.]

Or use a open-source engine.Right now, Astronouth and I are thinking about either CrystalSpace or something called Genesis3D. Both of these are open-source engines which might fill our needs. :)

[Mike Ciance]

the only problem with this is making a hook work or ball grabber or ball collectors...

this is why we should go with stack attack lol :D

anyway, i was thinking that, not for the first version, but for later versions, we could have a money system. it would be a continuous story mode. you start off as a poor team with hardly any money, spondored by a local car rapair shop or something like that. you use money register for a campaign (year) and you get the kit of parts. any extra parts will cost extra money. when youy win rounds, you get sponsorship points. the more sponsorship points you have, the more likely you are to get additional sponsors. here's where this idea would really work great: all the sponsor companies would actually be spionsors of the game. they would pay us to put them into the game as advertising. this would do wonders for the project. another possibility for this story mode would be to make a system that randomly generates a game. i would be willing to lay out the framework for this aspect. it would be a huge list of rules and game aspects with a permeation web so that there are hundreds of possible combinations, but so all make sense and work properly.

[Astronouth7303]

...with UnrealTournament 2k4, you get an editor to make maps and script with...
My mom would freak at the idea of me owning UT.
but i dunno how you would implement the human elemnt...
Good question. I think that the Game files will be dlls, or zips containing dlls.
all the sponsor companies would actually be spionsors of the game. they would pay us to put them into the game as advertising.
great, now we need a group to handle cash, too. :rolleyes:

[JVN]

Guys,
Do you think you're getting ahead of yourselves here?

The most important aspect of any videogame is GAMEPLAY.

Why not start with a simple FIRST-like, 2D game. You could either use a 2D approximation of a FIRST game, or an entirely new game. See what you can do. See if you can make it fun to play. I imagine the 1997 game would adapt itself well. Lot's of strategies that could be done simply.

Craft in some decent AI. (This is probably one of the hardest parts, but one of the most important). With decent AI, the game can be challenging to play.

Put in a bunch of different robots. Different styles, different mechanisms, different capabilites.

Throw in some "videogame elements":
Unlockable robots.
Robot upgrades.
Special "boss" robots for the playoffs (the super robot that grabs all 3 goals and walks to the endzone!).

Make it into a 2D RTS type game.
Think... Warcraft with robots...sorta. For every move, there is a counter move. Have people play through several "seasons". Each season you progress until your robot/drivers get beaten. Then you get some experience points depending on how well you do. These experience points let you develop your robot further the next season.

Program in several such 2D games. Allow a "franchise" mode where you play through 14 seasons (with 14 unique games), gaining experience along the way. Program in some real life teams.

There are ENDLESS possibilites for a simple game like this.

Make it multiplayer online.

Think NES era, not Xbox era.


*shrug*
I'd play it.

John

[Astronouth7303]

Guys,
Do you think you're getting ahead of yourselves here?

The most important aspect of any videogame is GAMEPLAY.

Why not start with a simple FIRST-like, 2D game. You could either use a 2D approximation of a FIRST game, or an entirely new game. See what you can do. See if you can make it fun to play. I imagine the 1997 game would adapt itself well. Lot's of strategies that could be done simply.

We could, but we'd still need a physics engine. And when we switched to 3D, it'd be a MASSIVE overhaul.

Craft in some decent AI. (This is probably one of the hardest parts, but one of the most important). With decent AI, the game can be challenging to play.

version 0.3. (we're working on 0.1 Alpha)

... Make it multiplayer online.
Yes, that's on the list, too. v0.5, I believe. :p (NES did online gameplay?)

I'm also half dreaming that this will double as a simulator.

[JVN]

I'm also half dreaming that this will double as a simulator.
I think that's going to be your major undoing.


Simple, Versatile, Fun.

vs.

Fancy, Complex, Overkill.



I guess it all depends what your goals are, and what you're really trying to create here.

Does the fun of this game come from manipulating the arm of a robot into position, and dropping the 3D poly-mapped ball into the 3D poly-mapped, bump rendered, goal? Or does it come from playing through different strategies against different teams, outthinking and outplaying the opponent?

Or... are you going to try for both.... :rolleyes:

[Astronouth7303]

Accurate/fast modes?
Dual engines! :D

[Ryan M.]

I agree that it should be simple at the beginning, but for things like 2D vs. 3D, to be able to switch between them, no matter how modular and separated you are, is going to take a lot of work. :)

Also, slight side note:
If you would like to get the Crystal Space code from CVS, Astronouth has written a very nice bat file for Win32. Download that here (http://texan.homeunix.net/texan2/cs/crystal.zip), from my server. Extract this into any directory and double click on the "crystalspace.bat." And new directory will be created under it. Crystal Space is large, be warned!

[mtrawls]

We could, but we'd still need a physics engine. And when we switched to 3D, it'd be a MASSIVE overhaul.

I believe his point was that a 2D game is still challenging ... but quite feasible to the dedicated group of programmers/artists/etc. A 3D game like you envision, however, is a MASSIVE undertaking, overhaul or not. I don't think you realize just how much work and how many professional programmers and man hours are required for something like this. I don't even know, fully. But I did try a mentorship project at my school to develop a 3D simulation, and ultimately I just couldn't complete the thing working 7+ hours a week (with school thrown in on the side, remember), for a semester. Granted, there were various problems and I was working on other things too ... but my point is that this is huge. I've said it and others have said it and others have said others have said it ... but it's worth one last repeating by me. As someone who's made the mistake before, Start out simple.

And before you start thinking about dlls and classes ... come up with a gameline, a storyboard. Write down everything you expect the game to be, keeping in mind to start out simple and add complexity later, if needed. (And it doesn't hurt to remind you now that premature optimization is the root of all evil). Then, once you've nailed the game description, start working on overviews of the code structure. Have you ever worked on Pre/Post conditions, or writing programs from detailed instructions? Before you write the code, come up with those (it's infinitely easier and less agravating to spot crucial errors in structure/heirarchy this way, not to mention less costly to fix than after you've coded it all).

[tiffany34990]

sounds really cool---- are u just working on doing the 2004 game first???

if u can come out and make it --i think lots will have fun--and if it's easy to do even younger kids will have a blast playing around-- it would be cool if u could design u'r own bot and stuff-- gets more complicated but just an idea of course

have fun making hope u guys can get it to work

have fun ya'll

[Tazlikesrobots]

Wow! This is cool. I would buy a copy for sure. Plus think about this, if you get other students to play, they likely will join the FIRST family.

This could be an excellent recruiting tool! Afterall it worked for the ARMY!!!!! :)

[team222badbrad]

Are we thinking about making this on our own as a group effort or approaching a company to create a game?

If we were thinking about approaching a company I would contact Atari.
They have already created 2 Robot Arena games. http://www.atari.com/us/games/robot_arena_2_pc_action/

I thought about FIRST robotics game many years ago but I didnt go any farther than thinking about it... I would love to play a FIRST robotics game.

Also are we going to have real FIRST robots or robots that we can assemble on our own such as in the Robot Arena games? Or a combination of both?

[Ryan M.]

We're thinking about actually making this on our own. :)

[Mike Ciance]

people are bringing up many good points, i'm really amazed at how many people are coming together to discuss this, it really shows what kind of a community FIRST is. :D

JVN is right, we need to keep this simple for the first version, but i think NES-style is a little to primative for this. (don't get me wrong, i love oldskool gaming, i actually just bought an NES at a yardsale on saturday) i think something around the quality of a PS1 game would be appropriate for this first game. then perhaps we will move onto something more N64-esque.

one thing we still haven't done is decide which game we are remaking. having that poll in the original thread (http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/showthread.php?t=29023) helps show which ones are better, but i think the group who are actually going to work on this should be the ones to decide. which leads me to my next point, we need to organize who thinks they are going to pitch in. i will help however i can, though i'm not a programmer. if you plan on getting involved in this, please PM me so i can organize a list

[JVN]

JVN is right, we need to keep this simple for the first version, but i think NES-style is a little to primative for this.
You're right... I didn't mean graphically it should be like an NES title, but in terms of gameplay.

If you guys want a little flash with substance.

How about a 2D game with a slightly angled overhead view using 3d sprites and prerendered backgrounds?

You can still make it pretty good looking (http://www.gamespot.com/gamecube/action/ikaruga/screens.html?page=74) without sacrificing gameplay and simplicity.

[Mike Ciance]

You're right... I didn't mean graphically it should be like an NES title, but in terms of gameplay.

If you guys want a little flash with substance.

How about a 2D game with a slightly angled overhead view using 3d sprites and prerendered backgrounds?

You can still make it pretty good looking (http://www.gamespot.com/gamecube/action/ikaruga/screens.html?page=74) without sacrificing gameplay and simplicity.

some other good examples of 2D games with a 3D look are Sim City and Rollercoaster Tycoon.

[Ryan Dognaux]

After I read this thread, one thing I asked myself was "Do these guys even know what they're doing? :rolleyes:"

It sounds like you're all getting way ahead of yourself.. I haven't seen a layout or a plan.. or anything except everyone just throwing ideas out from 2D Mario graphics to Half Life 2 game engines...

Maybe it should be stated who is doing what, cause from the outside... it really looks like no one has any idea of what's going on.

It takes 100's of hours to make a game... just keep that in mind. Something simple wouldn't be a bad idea for the first run of it...

[Astronouth7303]

After I read this thread, one thing I asked myself was "Do these guys even know what they're doing? :rolleyes:"
No.
It sounds like you're all getting way ahead of yourself.. I haven't seen a layout or a plan.. or anything except everyone just throwing ideas out from 2D Mario graphics to Half Life 2 game engines...
Not Half-Life, just the guys not busy w/ it!
Maybe it should be stated who is doing what, cause from the outside... it really looks like no one has any idea of what's going on.
Truefully, I don't know
It takes 100's of hours to make a game... just keep that in mind. Something simple wouldn't be a bad idea for the first run of it...
Yes. v0.1 Alpha will be a robot and an empty field. The engine will be in good, basic controls done, preliminary file parsing.

[Joe Matt]

Here's a question, will the robots be steared like they are now (as in back makes the robot go back, etc.) or like most video games (whatever point the character is facing, that direction when pushed will be forward, etc.)?

[Astronouth7303]

I think it will eventually be based on the control system (robot file). However, since many people only have 1 joystick, this could pose a problem. My recomendation: Lots of gameport expansion cards.

[Marc P.]

I was playing with UnrealEditor a bit last night, and with all the tools/utilities provided on the Unreal Tournament CDs, I'm thinking initially it may actually be easier just to create a mod. The interface for UnrealEditor is very similar to that of 3d Studio Max, and it seems like a very powerful program. If I had the time to play with it every night, I could probably hammer out a FIRST Frenzy playing field map in a week. All that would need to be done at that point would be modeling some robots, customizing some controls, and you have your .1 alpha release ready. Once you have something tangible to play with, you can start to play with Unreal Script to customize some of the features, e.g. hanging, hooking, playing with physics, adding properties for balls, etc. etc. Since it's based on the Unreal engine, you have all the customizability of the game as far as controls, camera angles, etc.

Consider that something of a playable rough draft. Once you have an idea of what you'd like done in terms of the engine, you can branch off and start writing your own from scratch if you wish. If we could come up with a good enough mod, we might be able to arrange some sort of special licensing to distribute the game as part of the FIRST community.

[Astronouth7303]

The problem is that you'd still need Unreal to play it. For what ever reason, some of us do not have access to Unreal. You're welcome to do it, but I won't be involved it that effort.

[Ryan M.]

The problem is that you'd still need Unreal to play it. For what ever reason, some of us do not have access to Unreal. You're welcome to do it, but I won't be involved it that effort.Yeah, that's very true.

Another thing, if we use something where the code isn't competely open source and we can do anything we want to with it, I personally won't feel like it's "our" game. It will be more like something any wanna-be hacker could do... Know what I mean? I like to have complete control over what is in any code I am working on, which means I can see it and change it if I don't like it for some reason. :)

[JoeXIII'007]

My thoughts:

- Never studied VC++, but will find a tutorial.
- As far as graphics are concerned, I'm thinking psuedo 3D like that on Marble Madness for the NES.(see attachment) But, we shouldn't get too far ahead of ourselves. I recommended DOS graphics earlier, then reconsidered, and now I reconsider again. DOS graphics is a very real possibility, it should be easy. Then there is primitive part to it. :confused:
- Open source is definitely the way to go, especially since many, if not all teams are going to want to tweak it and use it as a simulation tool.

[Heretic121]

yay Marble Madness =P... but really, i do concur to some extent... But with those old age graphics, even if the gameplay is incredible, there isnt much you can do to customize robots, colors, or thier shapes... thats why the opensource engines that were metntioned (the sega one, and the one from sourceforge) still hold the graphics wanted, its modern enough to make everyone happy, but its also what we need to some extent... but what we would like the most is the gameplay...

[ngreen]

This is a really neat idea.

I agree that you should first start working on the framework and build something that you can constantly use while only customizing the different game options. No real storyline is needed(sponsors and buying more parts). Just straight gameplay with a strong framework.

Remember v .1.

KISS, but make something to build on.

[Max Lobovsky]

The problem is that you'd still need Unreal to play it. For what ever reason, some of us do not have access to Unreal. You're welcome to do it, but I won't be involved it that effort.
As I explained before, the UT engine, not UT2k4 (UT engine + models/sounds/textures/maps/scripts....) to develop a mod. I had originally thought that you were only calling it a game and that it would really be a simulation (the direction I think you should really take). If it is a real game, you cannot use the free UT engine because the license bars making games without buying a copy of the engine (UT2k4 or one of the several games based on it). Ideally, we'd pull out some good FIRST soliciting and get the nice folks at Epic to give us permission to release the engine and mod for free.

[Astronouth7303]

... Ideally, we'd pull out some good FIRST soliciting and get the nice folks at Epic to give us permission to release the engine and mod for free.
If you can cover that, that'd be awesome.

[Bcahn836]

What about the announcers to introduce robots, teams, match numbers, winners ect...

[Mike Ciance]

What about the announcers to introduce robots, teams, match numbers, winners ect...

already got that topic covered here (http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/showthread.php?t=29127) :cool:

[Bcahn836]

Didn't look before i posted. Sorry.

Why wouldn't FIRST approve of the video game? As far as copyrights and all of that stuff, don't you think the guys at FIRST would be proud of what we are trying to accomplish? Right?? :confused:

[Astronouth7303]

They probably would, but it doesn't hurt to ask.

[Bcahn836]

They probably would, but it doesn't hurt to ask.

Has anyone asked?
shouldn't we get clearance from FIRST before we start then?
Not to be a pain to anybody but this is just something that i think should be discussed before we start

[Astronouth7303]

I e-mailed them today. Wouldn't hurt to talk to Dean or Dave, though.

[Bharat Nain]

I e-mailed them today. Wouldn't hurt to talk to Dean or Dave, though.
Let us know the response, I am willing to host a chat room thru AIM and stay in it 24/7, so we could even discuss stuff over there at a high speed, if needed. I dont mean to degrade CD, just to keep instant discussions on.

[Bcahn836]

I e-mailed them today. Wouldn't hurt to talk to Dean or Dave, though.

Awesome!! :cool:

[Astronouth7303]

Let us know the response, ...
I got an auto-response telling me about what FIRST is, what FIRST does, and how FIRST is making a difference. Does that count? :D

[Bharat Nain]

I got an auto-response telling me about what FIRST is, what FIRST does, and how FIRST is making a difference. Does that count? :D
Yes, partly, but tell us what they say about the game, when you get a reply that is:p

[Mike Ciance]

I just sent the following email to FIRST:

hello,
my name is Michael Ciance from FIRST Team 25. i recently brought up the idea of making a FIRST video game. on the Chief Delphi Forums i have gathered a group who wish to help me in the project. we have reached several decisions, such as the use of the 2004 FIRST Frenzy game. we would like to request your official approval for this project, and the approval to use FIRST logos and other copyrighted materials within our game. this is not a money-making scheme, it is an effort to spread the word of FIRST. we are not sure if we will charge money for the game or not, but if we do, all the profit will go to FIRST-related charities. if you would like to see our discussions, you can go here (http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=135) to view them.

please tell me what copyrighted material we are allowed to use, and what additional materials you may be able to provide. keep in mind that we are only trying to spread the word of the great organization that is FIRST



i sent it to customer service, so i don't think i will get an auto-response :D