Appropriate use of reputation points [Archive]

mtrawls

12-07-2004, 22:43

I searched around a little, but didn't see anything; forgive me if this is discussed extensively elsewhere. But, it seemed to me it would be a good time to have a discussion about the appropriate use of reputation points (whether they serve any good or not should be another discussion, if someone is so inclined).

The reason for this was sparked by a negative reputation I got while attempting a forage into the chit-chat forums. In specific, in regards to my post in the Draft thread (this one (http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/showthread.php?p=267840#post267840)), I received negative points, with the explanation being (paraphrasing) along the lines that even Bush admitted Iraq has no connections to terrorists, and particularly to 9/11. First let me state that I really do not care at all about the rep points themselves, and I don't intend to violate the privacy of the person who gave me that rep.

However, it did get me thinking. I was dissapointed, not because I got a negative rep, but because it seemed so blatanly to be because of my politics. Now, I don't think anyone on the boards would agree that the reputation system should be used to punish or even encourage a particular ideology, -- and I understand too that if you agree with something or disagree with something, you would tend to up vote it or down vote it, respectively. But I felt my post was reasonably well thought out and inclusive. And it seems too that at least the first claim (Iraq having no connections to terrorists) is patently false, and the second claim is open to wide speculation as to just exactly what "connections" means. (Though my post had nothing to do with the second claim in the reason for down voting.)

It seems to me that if this happened to me, others might potentially be abusing the reputation system, perhaps unwittingly. So are there any guidelines? Should a funny post be upvoted, or should it be reserved for serious and informative answers? What excactly should be the standard for downvoting, -- simply a non-informative, non-useful post, or one that actually is offensive or otherwise inappropriate? Should the chit-chat section count towards rep, and if so should we try to at least informally limit it to FIRST or engineering-related topics, or otherwise very intelligible and insightful posts? I tend to stay away from giving out rep myself, but if I see something that I would like to encourage (e.g., someone giving their Woodie Flowers essay in that recent thread or volunteering for the programming conventions talked about some time ago), I do upvote it. I use it rarely so that it has a more pronounced effect, -- I know this is opposite of how others use it, and I doubt there is any "preferred" method, ... so I thought an informative discussion about it would be handy. I guess I just don't understand if the rep system is just being tested out right now to see how it is, or if there's an intended use for it besides it being there. Color me confused :confused:

sanddrag

12-07-2004, 22:50

I've also noticed that people with FAR fewer posts than me have the same or higher rep than me? I'm not by any means complaining, it was just something I noticed. It may go back to the same thing of rep isn't given where deserved and is given where not deserved.

Elgin Clock

12-07-2004, 22:53

Ha ha.. lol

Sorry, I don't mean to laugh at your post or it's meaning just at the whole rep system.

I have gotten good reps for everything from a good topic to bring to CD, to a random rep point from someone I was talking in a chatroom, to a rep point from someone I met and they just gave me a rep, to a good rep for a thought inspiring quote I made.. (Oh wait.. that last one wasn't me) :rolleyes:

Anyways, just take the rep points with a grain of salt. They are cool to have, but not really meaningful IMHO.

Then again maybe I am in denial that they mean anything because I only have 3 or 4 bars) edit: 8 bars??? whoa. cool...

Anyways, The bad rep I got was for apparently "hijacking a thread" by adding in a thank you for something which was kind of related to the subject, to a negative rep I got for adding in a "be careful what you say here" quote about a certain topic dealing with a sensitive team subject. It was apparently redundant, and "I am not the FCC" - I liked that last quote....

Ok, I'm done ranting.. But like I said, take it with a grain of salt. It's all in good fun(?).

Yan Wang

12-07-2004, 22:59

I searched around a little, but didn't see anything; forgive me if this is discussed extensively elsewhere.

Are you sure you looked around? Searching 'reputation' yields many relevant results. More relevant is the huge section regarding reputation, how to use it, etc. in the FAQ, linked conveniently at the top of your screen. If you do have a personal problem with reputation abuse, PM Brandon Martus about it. I have on some occasions.

Lil' Lavery

12-07-2004, 23:08

The reputation points are alot of fun to have, and are very cool. But they are often abused. Ive received negative rep points from a friend of mine of 116 for quote "just cus your special". But, hey, its not a big deal. You dont earn anything for having a high rep, other than, well, a good reputation.

Elgin Clock

12-07-2004, 23:10

You dont earn anything for having a high rep, other than, well, a good reputation.
And a reputation is no big deal right???

Maybe we should rename this system of points..?

OneAngryDaisy

12-07-2004, 23:29

Yeah, I was wondering about this too- a while back on the evening of a regional I made a post about Beatty's robot- so many people were itching to see what it was. I posted a picture of R2D2, all in good fun, and got some positive posts afterwards. However, a rather prominent member of the CD community gave me negative reputation, and that kinda bothered me. it was just supposed to be funny...?

http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/showthread.php?p=241716#post241716

Bharat Nain

12-07-2004, 23:35

Check this and this (http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/showthread.php?t=28585&highlight=reputation) and this. (http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/faq.php?faq=vb_faq#faq_reputation_faq)
This will help heaps, there was a pretty heated disucssion on Reputation points.

To answer your question, if you feel you have been given a negative reputation point unfairly, then just let Brandon know pointing out to the post. If it is really unfair, he will look into it, if my memory serves me right.

The FAQ system (http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/faq.php?faq=vb_faq#faq_reputation_faq) explains very well the use of Reputation system. Ofcourse its not flawless, but it does serve its purpose. I use the reputation system extensively, and from what I do, I can say, give reputation points for good posts, and negative points for pointless posts(exclude chit-chat). Read the FAQ, it explains well. Also, the thread about Reputation System, I am pretty sure it will help you.

If you still have questions, I am sure one of the moderators or Brandon will be happy to answer your question.

-Bharat

FizMan

12-07-2004, 23:39

DOOD! I'm TOTALLY giving you negative reputation points for this thread! LIEK OMG!!!11

on second thought I'm too lazy... :P

(j/k aboot the negative points)

Cory

12-07-2004, 23:42

Max Lobovsky

12-07-2004, 23:44

I have another example of strange things done with negative reputation:

Someone gave me some negative points for my post in this thread: http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/showpost.php?p=274525&postcount=20 stating simply that i was "factually incorrect". I have PMed and emailed the person since and he seems to just blatantly ignore my asking for clarification. It was a bit offending that he just simply stated I'm wrong and left it at that, but what is even worse is that the only thing anyone gained out of that encounter was maybe him having the satisfaction of feeling superior. If I was truly wrong, he should have posted an explanation in that thread so everyone could see.

Frustrating...

dez250

12-07-2004, 23:47

While I agree with some of your points, overall you can tell the reputation system is working.

Look at the top people. Andy Baker, John V Neun, Dave Lavery. All of these people are very highly respected people in the FIRST community.

Keep it how it is.

Cory

So Cory, i have nothing against your point there but what about This Member (http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/member.php?u=2491) while i have never met this member in person i guess this person may also be a pretty well respected person in FIRST for their high rep value as they have had it reset at least once to zero by a mod.

Bharat Nain

12-07-2004, 23:53

I agree guys, there are many things which are unfair. I have gotten unfair reputation points but it doesn't bother me. All I can say is if you are seriously offended or something, let Brandon know. He is a nice guy and he will sincerely look into it, even though he is a real busy man(as we can see).

Sometimes its best to let people have their five minutes. It happens to me everyday. I have to deal with people at my job, they argue at ridiculous things, and me the wise guys, smiles, gets my job done, without caring of the customers attitude. Let some people have their five minutes, and if you dont like it, let Brandon know, simple solution :)

Bharat Nain

12-07-2004, 23:54

So Cory, i have nothing against your point there but what about This Member (http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/member.php?u=2491) while i have never met this member in person i guess this person may also be a pretty well respected person in FIRST for their high rep value as they have had it reset at least once to zero by a mod.
Don't talk about him, he is my best friend:mad:, dare not disrespect him:D

Cory

12-07-2004, 23:54

So Cory, i have nothing against your point there but what about This Member (http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/member.php?u=2491) while i have never met this member in person i guess this person may also be a pretty well respected person in FIRST for their high rep value as they have had it reset at least once to zero by a mod.

In that case you need to just let common sense tell you "Hmm, I think that person doesnt even exist and some people just thought they were funny when they gave it a bunch of rep."

Cory

Katie Reynolds

13-07-2004, 00:20

While I agree with some of your points, overall you can tell the reputation system is working.

Look at the top people. Andy Baker, John V Neun, Dave Lavery. All of these people are very highly respected people in the FIRST community.

Keep it how it is.

Cory Yep.

As with most anything, some people will abuse the system ... giving negative points just 'cause they don't like you or what you've said. And that sucks, but it's just something we have to deal with. I think the vast majority of rep is given fairly.

*shrug*

Karthik

13-07-2004, 00:39

Okay, there's a lot of you out there who are upset about getting negative rep. That's great. Instead of running right to Brandon everytime, maybe you should pause for a few seconds, and try and figure out why you received the negative rep. Most people are very hesitant to give out negative rep here, so there's usually a serious reason behind it. If you can't think of one, send a PM to the user who dished the dirt. Maybe you'll be able to have some sort of positive discussion with them, and you'll both become enlightened in some way. If people are giving you negative rep for dumb reasons, maybe you should just leave it as, "that was really immature, I'm going to be the bigger person, and move on with my life".

You really shouldn't have complain to the already overworked moderator of this board over negative rep. Unless some gives you rep along the lines of "you're fat and ugly, so I want your rep to be lower", it might be a nice idea if people try and work these issues out themselves.

After all, it's just a reputation system for an online discussion forum. There's no reason to get this uptight about it.

<Gets ready to whine to Brandon about the negative rep I'm sure to receive about this post...;) >

Greg Needel

13-07-2004, 01:07

I think that rep is over-rated although in my personal opinion reputation should only be given in technical forums and FIRST related conversation. When the reputation system first came out i thought this would be a way for people new to the community to recognize those members with reliable information and not who is most popular/posts the most. But as this is just an internet discussion forum the rating system doesn't really mean anything

on a side note: one of the funniest things I heard are people not posting in topics because they were afraid of bad reputation...

Bharat Nain

13-07-2004, 01:16

on a side note: one of the funniest things i heard is people not posting in topics because they were afraide of bad reputation...
I admit, I have done that. I did not participate in the Collaboration debate because I was new and didn't know what this reputation thing was, I thought if I got too much negative reputation I'd be kicked of CD or something. BUt yeah I was new then, now I've learnt, a few neg. reps wont do you too much harm, so take a chance and post :)

FizMan

13-07-2004, 07:53

on a side note: one of the funniest things i heard is people not posting in topics because they were afraide of bad reputation...I've heard similar things; not on this board, but afraid of the moderators deleting their posts and warning them; maybe even suspending them. Sad thing is, their fears were justified ;)

mtrawls

13-07-2004, 17:18

Okay, there's a lot of you out there who are upset about getting negative rep.

No, not upset at all. Slightly disappointed at the inappropriate use of the rep system by a few members, I would expect more from the CD/FIRST community, .... but the negative rep surely doesn't bother me -- in fact, if I made some silly comment in a post like "Kerry suxors" and just said that, I would be just as dissapointed if I got a bunch of positive rep from Bush supporters.

After all, it's just a reputation system for an online discussion forum. There's no reason to get this uptight about it.

Oh, let me elaborate on what I said, if that comment was directed towards me. I really couldn't care less about reputation points. They are meaningless; and, even if they did mean something, I'm mature enough to look to myself to judge my own worth, and not what other people who I don't know are saying. I'm not trying to be uptight, and to the comments that I talk to Brandon, I'd rather not bother him for something I don't even want changed at all. I just thought some attention on the subject would be a good thing, specifically as to what is appropriate and what is not. It seems there has been some discussion on that, and while I did search, it was late and I came back from a long day at work, ... so I missed some things, for which I'm sorry if I offended anyone.

I'll just say that of course the system isn't perfect, but it does have it's place ... the question is just determining what it's place is, and how to improve it with formal or informal rules. (And even though there were old discussions relevant to this subject, it sure seems that people have more to say.)

Swan217

13-07-2004, 20:32

Then again maybe I am in denial that they mean anything because I only have 3 or 4 bars) edit: 8 bars??? whoa. cool...

I am perfectly happy with my 2 dots edit: 4 dots.

Astronouth7303

14-07-2004, 15:15

I think altogether, I've gotten 3-4 neg rep. only one of those I feel are justified. There are a few people who obviously mis-use the system, repeatedly.

When rep is abused, it's generally red ones.

Jeff Waegelin

15-07-2004, 11:10

When rep is abused, it's generally red ones.

Well, that, and people usually don't complain when users "abuse" positive rep :p

Swan217

15-07-2004, 21:32

Well, that, and people usually don't complain when users "abuse" positive rep :p
I hate how positive reputation points are abused all the time. I've seen positive rep given for a reason no better than people like my hair or my smooth dancing skills. I know of people much more deserving than me that have one, maybe 2 bars at most. Come on people! Show these people some respect! I'm sick of people giving out positive rep to any ol' person that pops up on a thread, such as a John V-somethingorother or that dude, what's his name, the guy who wrestles pigs...
Oh, and another thing, there's nothing worse than posting a comment about having 4 bars, and SOMEBODY just having to prove me wrong by making it 5. :rolleyes: :p

Say "no" to positive rep abuse!!!

dez250

15-07-2004, 21:45

I hate how positive reputation points are abused all the time. I've seen positive rep given for a reason no better than people like my hair or my smooth dancing skills. I know of people much more deserving than me that have one, maybe 2 bars at most. Come on people! Show these people some respect! I'm sick of people giving out positive rep to any ol' person that pops up on a thread, such as a John V-somethingorother or that dude, what's his name, the guy who wrestles pigs...
Oh, and another thing, there's nothing worse than posting a comment about having 4 bars, and SOMEBODY just having to prove me wrong by making it 5. :rolleyes: :p

Say "no" to positive rep abuse!!!

Finally someone else that sees wat i see. Yes these are only little green dots and i can give a hoot (thanks homer) about them really, but one thing to go along with Dan's comments is about the Chit Chat forums. I think that Rep coming from the chit chat forums is pretty much a joke, espically when its negative rep. I posted for the first time in the political debate in the chit chat forum and was slammed by people thinking what i posted was not appropiate. I mean isnt the chit chat suppossed to be where you can speak your mind and not be judged for it really. Also something i noticed recently at an off season event is how much rep means to some people. I mean come on people when your at an off season and someone tries to talk to you and then you blow them off cause you have more "rep" on cd then they do... Maybe you should examine the terms Gracious Professionalism.

JVN

15-07-2004, 22:00

Also something i noticed recently at an off season event is how much rep means to some people. I mean come on people when your at an off season and someone tries to talk to you and then you blow them off cause you have more "rep" on cd then they do....
Really?
That is just silly.
Where the heck did you see that?

I don't believe that ANYONE takes the reputation that seriously.
I certainly don't.

Corey Balint

15-07-2004, 22:14

Rep should just be used as a an entertainment tool, it really shouldnt matter. I mean why would you not talk to someone cuz they have lower rep, or not post a reply in a thread, because it was started by a guy with one rep bar.
Ive got 2 rep bars, and im not a famous/important person in first, but i could be important to someone on my team or to people on other teams, thats what really matters. Not a bar of "reputation" on a, hate to use this word but makes point best, stupid little forum.

Mike Ciance

15-07-2004, 23:24

here is what i give positive reps for:
good ideas
helping me
good jokes
any other good, well thought-out posts that warrent attention
i give negative reps for:
attacking or insulting other people without good reason
use of bad language
unnecessary complaining
off-topic/pointless posts
i don't give bad reps often, i'd say 90% of the reps i've given have been positive

i do agree that the reputation system is not perfect, but it is way better than not having one. as long as everybody uses it somewhat responsibly, it will show who is nice and who bothers people. i find it very useful. when you see 10 squares, you know that person has to be pretty nice/smart/etc.

i'll talk to anybody and treat them with respect no matter what their reputation, even if they have red squares. because some people don't use the rep system correctly, some pretty unfair reps go out. and about treating people badly in person because of their rep on here, thats rediculous. somebody could post stupid stuff and get people mad on the forums, but really be nice in person, you just can't judge by this. it rates how well they use message boards, not how good of a person they are, at least not to the extant that you should ignore them or anythign like that.

Andy Baker

16-07-2004, 00:09

Max Lobovsky

16-07-2004, 00:41

Bharat Nain

16-07-2004, 00:54

Andy, I think most of use are not really complaining, but more expressing disappointment at the behavior of some members of the community. As I stated in my earlier post. If you haven't already, read Mrawls, or my earlier post to get an idea for what sort of actions we are talking about.
Good Negative reputation point:
Situation: I teased Big Mike on the Segway
Neg. Rep: Katie Reynolds give me a negative reputation point says its not too good

Bad negative reputation point:
Situation: how fast is your robot? me: 10ft/sec theoritically, but seems much faster
Point: stop exagerrating, you 25 scumbag

Now, although Big Mike is my good friend, I really shouldn't make fun of him in public, especially on a forum, so I thanked Katie for it and deleted the psot

The Bad reputation point, I love team 25, its my team, I've done heaps for it, and someone hurt me, WHAT!!! UGHH, I WANNA KILL HIM, !!!!
Nah, thats never my attitude, its simple, you wanna hate, go right ahead, you wanna do WHATEVER go right ahead..

On an overall, the reputation system should not take you in the wrong direction. i.e. you shouldn't have 7 neg. rep points at one time unless you've done something real wrong.

So don't really bother with a few negative reputation points and especailly their comments, Yes, they hurt, real bad sometimes, but forget it, the other person just needed his/her 5 minutes, let them have it and you can have the rest. Seriously fellas, I know how disappointing it is, long ago I had many red dots in my user cp, and i used to get depressed looking at them, but its not worth. Eventually it will all be fine, so just take it easy and give the other person their 5 minutes if you think its not justified.

D.J. Fluck

16-07-2004, 01:02

JAH

16-07-2004, 01:15

How I look at it...taking whoever for example(someone with all those green dots that just make their posts more colorful)...are they a better person than I am? Possibly...but possibly not. I just don't post as much maybe. Overall, is rep on CD going to mean anything to anyone in 20 years? Or even at a comp later next year...I sincerely hope not. Just my comments...

Billfred

16-07-2004, 02:59

Well, there is a simple solution here...we start giving feedback on how people give feedback. Surely there's room for another bar up there...

mtrawls

16-07-2004, 17:26

Basically, there really is nothing you can do about it except deal with it or bar the reputation system all together. If i'm not mistaken this is the 2nd or 3rd thread that has been dedicated to complaining about the reputation system. Again, reinforcing what Andy said, go on with your lives, do what you want and deal with it.

Oh, ... I really hope that is not how this thread is seen: as "complaining about the reputation system." And I hope too that people don't think "there really is nothing you can do about it." I started this thread not to complain, but to spark a debate so that the system could perhaps be improved, or at least its limitations more understood. Now, what Mr. Baker said is very smart and is a very good point to consider. But please don't see me as complaining; the system can be changed for the better by various actions, ... and the only way that any change might be affected is by intelligent debate. And even without change, an intelligent discussion (as opposed to complaining) is a good thing for the community.

Sure, there are those that take the system to the extreme, and you can't really change them -- they are who they are. But anyone who refuses to talk to someone of lower rep, or assumes someone with 10 bars is smart or insightful is reading into the system far more than can accurately be read. If the system is to stay, in my most humble opinion it should not be meaningless; to make it more meaningful, its weaknesses must be addressed and discussed intelligently (whether or not that results in any official change). Again in my opinion, we shouldn't tell people how to give out rep; but that doesn't mean we can't offer suggestions (as we currently do). I'm not necessarily advocating any change in the system -- but a discussion is certainly needed, even if it is a re-discussion (or, as it seems, a re-re-re-discussion).

I hope I haven't overstayed my welcome in this thread, but I felt I needed to clear up some things.

Bharat Nain

16-07-2004, 23:35

"I talked to John AND Andy... and they have more rep than me! Wooooo!"

P.S: John told me to post:D

Ken Leung

19-07-2004, 22:21

As for abuse of positive rep or negative rep, I don't understand. If you are free to say what you want, then someone else is free to give you negative or positive rep about it. If they are being a jerk about it, then they have to deal with the ramifications. How is that abuse? We're all supposed to follow an outline of how to give positive and negative rep? I know how I give rep points, but that is just me. I don't worry about how everyone else is giving them. Nor do I tell others how to give our their rep comments. Do what you want. Deal with the results.
Andy B.

The part that people care the most about is their appearance in front of the community. That's where reputation hurt the most, because you are in front thousands of people in this program being judged in a spot light. You aren't sure of how you are being judged, you have an idea what they like or don't like to see, but it doesn't really matter if you are right or not because ultimately yourself is the harshest judge of them all.

The reputation point system is an interesting idea to throw out to the community. Everyone have some sort of idea on how it should and shouldn't work, and people did what they wanted for a year and had fun for a year. It seems to me the discussions in here prompted a bigger questions about the Chief Delphi Forum, and that is, what is the appropriate behavior in this forum. We only give or take reputation points when we see something we like or don’t like. Problem is, there are too many standards out there.

We all have different system of right and wrong. That will never change. I for one do not agree with people answering questions in the form of "I am not sure but..." or posts that ask for nothing but trouble. We all have our pet peeves in this forum. Only, with a weapon (or reward) so easily at hand ready to punish people whenever we feel like it, some people use it more often then they should. And that's something to think about: What message are we sending to the community?

Are we saying we are so lazy at reading people's post that we have to rely on what others thing of them base on how many (or little) green dot that person has, especially when half the dots given or removed are based on acts that are half serious only? For those of us veteran posters, of course not. But any rookie member might come in and see the dots and care more than they should, and I think that's a bad message to send out. I would hate to see us teaching students with anything other than patience, example, and truth.

But Enough about that. People seem to want a reputation system to play with, so I am not going to argue. Anyway…

There are ups and downs with the reputation system, which come from how people use the system. But instead of arguing what's right and wrong, which is only going to dig us deeper into the hole, I think we ought to think of ways to improve the system.

For example, I truly believe that we should add an + zero reputation button so people can give comments to each other without being forced to give or take reputation points. A lot of times when I want to give constructive criticism to a fellow poster, but I don't want to take away rep points, so I awarded them instead. After all, what kind of mentors are we if we can't tolerate some mistakes. If I had the option, I wouldn’t have to do that, and would choose to comment on a lot more posts.

All I ask is for the rest of you to think about it, don't reply so quickly.

Andy Baker

21-07-2004, 09:10

I too think that the rep point system is over-rated. It has some merits, but it also gets too much attention. People joke about it, complain about it, and debate it. We all are guilty of giving it more credit than it is worth.

As for abuse of positive rep or negative rep, I don't understand. If you are free to say what you want, then someone else is free to give you negative or positive rep about it. If they are being a jerk about it, then they have to deal with the ramifications. How is that abuse? We're all supposed to follow an outline of how to give positive and negative rep? I know how I give rep points, but that is just me. I don't worry about how everyone else is giving them. Nor do I tell others how to give our their rep comments. Do what you want. Deal with the results.

Andy B.

Sheesh... the above quote was my attempt at being as brash and blunt as I could be about this, hoping that someone would give me some negative rep points. I even put in there "please give me some negative rep" to prove that I really don't care too much about this system. But that seemed to obvious to me, so I deleted that sentence.

Honestly, if you wish to bash someone because you don't agree with them or you think that they are being to harsh, you should feel like you have that right. I'm SURE that I ticked a few people off with the above post, but no one gave me any negative rep points.

Do you guys see what I am saying? Not only should we feel free to post what we want to think, we should also feel free to give each other negative or positive rep points. You just need to be able to back up your opinions and stand by what you say.

Andy B.

[edit: woohoo! I've got 3 negative reps for this post... keep 'em coming!]

Rich Kressly

21-07-2004, 09:35

Sheesh... the above quote was my attempt at being as brash and blunt as I could be about this, hoping that someone would give me some negative rep points. I even put in there "please give me some negative rep" to prove that I really don't care too much about this system. But that seemed to obvious to me, so I deleted that sentence.

Honestly, if you wish to bash someone because you don't agree with them or you think that they are being to harsh, you should feel like you have that right. I'm SURE that I ticked a few people off with the above post, but no one gave me any negative rep points.

Do you guys see what I am saying? Not only should we feel free to post what we want to think, we should also feel free to give each other negative or positive rep points. You just need to be able to back up your opinions and stand by what you say.

Andy B.

Ahh.........It's much simpler to tell everyone that you are funny looking Baker ;) If anyone needs that backed up, just look at the blue hair or that pig wrestling sequence.

In all seriousness, here's a thought for everyone: Don't worry about what you can't control.

Jessica Boucher

21-07-2004, 09:59

Any way you slice it, it's still a whole lot better than the old system of self-worth by number of postings.

"The more you know who you are and what you want, the less you let things upset you." - Bill Murray, Lost in Translation

As it's been said before, just keep track of making a solid argument. You can't control how others feel about you, so take the risk and post something substancial. Sometimes people won't like it, but most of the time people will....and eventually the green will overshadow the red.

Billfred

21-07-2004, 10:43

Jeff Waegelin

21-07-2004, 10:54

Well, lemme throw an idea out.

Suppose there was an option to give rep anonymously, but at less strength. Kinda like warnings on AIM. Do you think that would make people less hesitant to speak their minds fully?

(Of course, I'd imagine that B-money and his homies could still see whodunnit, given that they are teh skills and that someone's bound to abuse it eventually, just like non-anonymous rep.)

I very much dislike the idea of anonymous rep. I feel that one of the best parts of the reputation system, is that it holds users accountable for what comments they give. It's pretty easy to abuse a comment (or reputation, or AIM warning) system if nobody will know it was you who did it. If, on the other hand, you know that the other person will know you did it, you'll be much more likely to think about what you say, and only make comments that are appropriate and necessary. So, I think, in essence, tying reputation to your username keeps the system in check, at least a little bit. Opening reputation up to anonymous comments is just asking for trouble, in my opinion.

Rez648

21-07-2004, 22:58

Ive got 2 rep bars, and im not a famous/important person in first, but i could be important to someone on my team or to people on other teams, thats what really matters.

I totally agree with this!! I don't have the best rep on CD, but I am a respected member on my team and I respect every single person on my team and I respect all of those that are a part of FIRST, regardless of their rep on CD.

Matt Adams

21-07-2004, 23:38

Alrighty, I'm gonna throw some things out here on the topic of reputation, since this thread has digressed a bit anyway. This is going to be blunt. Sorry kids.

I think the reputation system works, but it's labeled wrong. The reputation should simply be called, "Cheif Delphi Contribution Rating." This would get rid of these crazy complains about reputations, popularity and the like. We've hashed this talk over and over.

I think the system in place works and works well. People who contribute the most worthwhile posts have the most reputation by and large. No system is perfect, this one is darn good. People who contribute worthwhile posts consistantly get reputation. To be blunt, people who don't have a high rating do not contribute frequent AND worthwhile posts. Mind you, perhaps one or the other is true, but not both.

Most of the people who complain about not having a high repuation are frequent contributors, but seldom share anything worthwhile. I wasn't around in the "good ole days" of Cheif Delphi, but from what I gather, this site was once a technical eutopia. The technical cutting edge information is still here, but a bit harder to find.

At this point in the history of CD, the number of "reputation points per green box" ratio need to be adjusted. Too many people have too many boxes. I think it might be easier to just divide all of the points by 10 and call it a day, but regardless, there are lot of people that have (or nearly have) maxed out the buttons, but are far from the oh-so-flattering title given to them. Myself included.

And that's about that.

Matt

Franchesca

22-07-2004, 15:46

I agree with many of the comments that have been posted above me ... but one of the points that I find to be most truthful is this one:

We only give or take reputation points when we see something we like or don’t like. Problem is, there are too many standards out there.

We all have different system of right and wrong. That will never change. I for one do not agree with people answering questions in the form of "I am not sure but..." or posts that ask for nothing but trouble. We all have our pet peeves in this forum. Only, with a weapon (or reward) so easily at hand ready to punish people whenever we feel like it, some people use it more often then they should. And that's something to think about: What message are we sending to the community?

The reputation system does serve its purpose and I for one don't mind that it is here nor would I mind if it wasn't ... I think that Chief Delphi is great overall!!
Personally, i'm not a fan of giving out too many rep points but if I really find or read something that captivates my attention and that I think deserves rep points ... then I will award them (regardless of the topic). I don't like to give negative points either because I am a firm believer in that everyone is at free to say what they wish and I'm not a judge to be judging anyones words or ideas! Unless, I read something that is truly offensive overall (not just because I seem to think so) then I will award negative points!

Which is what brings me to my point ... EVERYONE IS DIFFERENT ... and therein we all think differently ... so judging someone elses posts on our standards is not what I believe should be done! I think we should all view posts as exactly what they are -- individual posts from individuals who have their own ideas and personalities! And again when and if a post is truly offensive then measures should be taken!

Second thing, someone who has a few bars (perse 2 or 3) should not be considered someone who's posts are not AS GOOD as the posts of someone who has a lot of bars. Which brings me to my next quote:

people who don't have a high rating do not contribute frequent AND worthwhile posts. Mind you, perhaps one or the other is true, but not both.

Altough, I repsect your opinion, I don't agree with it ... there are many reasons why this could happen. And to not forget that whenever there is some kind of reputation or point system ... there's a margin of error due to popularity. I've seen it happen many times, to put an example not related to this forum ... students in club's vote their friends as officers. This means that although we'd like to think that all of this points are given out solely on the post and its content ... there is still the possibility that someone gives their 'friend' points just because!

We shouldn't fret over this subject, instead we should think this way:

"The more you know who you are and what you want, the less you let things upset you." - Bill Murray, Lost in Translation

We shouldn't be worried wether we get good points or negative rep. points ... to me (and I'm sure to most people) what really matters is to be able to have a place where we can talk and share ideas with other people whom have likewise interests (perse FIRST)! In the end they are just dots and if we all have enough confidence in ourselves and stand by what we say ... it really will not matter what others think or say about it, life is about being able to express yourself to the fullest and to be comfortable with that!

Ok, this is long enough so I will end it .. but just remember: Wether you have many green dots or few green dots ... the real represantation of you is what you think of yourself and who show it!

I hope not to have offended anyone with MY ideas :D and I hope nobody thinks that I took their ideas with the quotes used above!

Cory

04-08-2004, 04:28

I try to abuse the rep system to it's fullest, you know, giving random points to all my friends, that sort of thing.

Errmmm... did I say abuse? I meant use. Those two are kinda confusing, y'know? :ahh:

Cory

Andy Baker

20-05-2005, 11:02

Yes, I a resurrecting an old thread, but I have a reason:

It seems like some new users are getting red dots quickly these days. I can understand if this user is being blatantly inappropriate and they deserve to get some negative rep. However, I see some new users who are getting slapped with negative rep for making a the typical newbie mistakes, such as not searching before they post or not paying attention to out-dated threads.

So... users, I ask you to give these newbies a break. Although you crusty vets see these mistakes happen often, new members still need your patience. Before whacking them with some negative rep, send them some neutral rep or a PM to give them some advice. Then, if they don't listen to you, you can be more blunt by giving them your negative rep rating as you wish.

Of course, how you use your rep points is up to you. Consider this a simple request.

Andy B.

Paul Copioli

20-05-2005, 11:19

Andy Baker

20-05-2005, 11:55

ChrisH

20-05-2005, 12:28

I haven't been nearly as active as I probably should be in giving rep points. But I have noticed the high rate of negative reps among newbies lately.

I award these people positive rep points anytime I see them doing something remotely worthy. Just to reinforce good behavior.

ChrisH

dlavery

20-05-2005, 14:39

I forgot how wise Mr. Baker really is. I, too have noticed this trend. You so called CD veterans: take a good look at how you give out rep. I say that if you have given negative rep to more than 5 people, then you may be a bit judgmental. If you have given negative rep to more than 10 people or a total of more than 20 times, then I say you need to look inward and stop being holier than thou.
I absolutely agree with Andy and Paul with regard to some of the "rep-bombing" of newbies that has been occurring. But my engineer's instincts kick in at some point, and I would like to suggest a minor modification to Paul's heuristics (the philosophical heart of which are right on target). Rather than holding to a hard and fast number, I would suggest that you might consider an upper-bound on the ratio of negative/positive rep that is given out. If you have given ten negative rep hits out of a total of twenty reputation allocations, then perhaps some adjustment of your understanding of the purpose of reputation points might be in order. Conversely, if you have issued ten negative rep hits out of 1000, then that is probably within a range that most would consider acceptable (let's face it, every now and then there are posts that really do deserve negative rep - ones threatening the life of the President [even if you don't respect the man, respect the office] and ones promoting intentional group violence on an opposing team as retribution are examples that come to mind).

We can quibble over the specific number of the ratio (what is OK? 1%? 4%? 0.5%? I don't know). Everyone may have a different view of what is a reasonable negative/positive ratio. But in the end, each time you consider issuing a negative (or for that matter, positive) reputation hit you must be comfortable with your own answers to three questions:

- Given the roles of both the poster and myself (as student, mentor, parent, teacher, team member, engineer, or whatever), is changing the reputation of the poster an appropriate response to their post?

- If all the reputation allocations were made public, and not kept private, would I still be comfortable in making this reputation allocation?

- If I had made this post and then recieved a negative reputation hit for it, would I feel it was deserved?

Unless you can answer "yes" to each of those questions, then you might want to think a little more about other ways to get your message across to the poster before you hit the "add to reputation" button.

-dave

Rich Kressly

20-05-2005, 14:53

I'm not worthy...
I'm not worthy...

Thanks to all three - Andy, Paul, and Dave - for this reminder. The bottom line is that we want more and more people in FIRST so they have a chance to be inspired and understand the culture-changing mission. Our primary role should always be to educate and mentor those that come after us. Both patience and persistence are necessary. As my good friend Paul Kloberg (NJ Sr. Mentor) says, "Fun Is Required, So Tolerate."

Steve W

20-05-2005, 15:06

Just added up my reps given. I gave 104 positive 3 neutral and 1 neg to a member of my own team that stepped out of line. I do regularly pm people that I might have bad repped rather than give neg points. I have found that most people take positive to this approach. We are here to both learn and teach. Let's try to be positive.

Daniel Brim

20-05-2005, 15:28

I would say that instead of giving out negative reputation points for newbie mistakes, give neutral reputation points or PM the user instead. That way, the message comes across, but it is constructive instead of demeaning. However, if somebody who has been here for a while and steps majorly out of the forum rules (IE Spams, trashes another member, etc), then I think it is okay to give negative reputation. That's how I go about it, anyways.

-Daniel

Koko Ed

20-05-2005, 15:36

I would also like to make a plea for mercy when a rookie makes an inappropriate comment and then evrybody piles on them and their rep is left in the trash heap. If I come across something like that I do not give them negative rep. I dispute thier claim or scold them but they don't deserve a blleding red dot becasue of their lack of judgement. Wouldn't it be just better to simply correct them instead of everybody administer a poison pen beat down on them?

Al Skierkiewicz

20-05-2005, 21:07

I was under the impression that negative rep from a well known poster was frowned on so I don't remember giving any negatives. I have taken the "PM a nice message first" approach and give the abuser a chance to clear it up privately. I have gotten a little harsh on occasion in a PM and luckily the victim responded by PM and we came to quite a good rapport after that. There are those occasions where even the PM doesn't work. I advocate disconnect (virtual excommunication) for those that don't start to get it on the first message.

KenWittlief

20-05-2005, 21:22

I dont bean someone with a negative rep hit unless they are breaking the serious rules of the forum (like posting masked profanity) or being abusive

on many ocassions I have used the rep points to send a note to someone, telling them I dont agree with what they are saying, but I give them positive rep anyway, because sometimes it takes real guts to say what you want to say knowing it might not be popular. If someone is speaking their mind, they might be wrong, but I dont want to discourage someone from speaking up.

I have gotten the most red hits from people who dont like my sense of humor. How ironic is that? Would you really want someone in the FIRST community to have a 'bad reputation' because you dont get their jokes, or you dont think they are funny?

There is a golden rule I learned several years ago for reviewing someone elses work. For each negative thing you have to say, you must say three positive things first. People get demoralized quickly if you only have negative things to say to them, esp when it comes from a supervisior, manager, team leader or a mentor.

Rich Kressly

21-05-2005, 08:18

OK, I'm a complete ninny and I need to ask andy and Steve...
Where's the info to add up your own rep given??
I really need to know if I'm a jerk or not ;)

sammy

21-05-2005, 08:31

OK, I'm a complete ninny and I need to ask andy and Steve...
Where's the info to add up your own rep given??
I really need to know if I'm a jerk or not ;)

Your User CP lists all the rep you've given. It only gives a total number, but you can count smaller of the three colors and subtract to get the larger.

Wetzel
*Edit* Whoops, wrong user again. :rolleyes:

Ryan M.

21-05-2005, 09:06

Where's the info to add up your own rep given??As Sammy said, its in your usercp. At the top of the same table which lists the rep you've received, there's a link which says "Latest reputation given." Or, you could just follow this link (http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/usercp.php?&repshow=give). :)

coleslaw

11-02-2008, 14:14

I do think the reputation points does have it's up's and down's. The one thing that it serves the best purpose for is, I think, motivating people to actively participate in the forums. :cool:
I know that most people don't approve of the "dissaprove" option but it does serve a purpose for letting the offender know of what he or she did wrong

Joe G.

11-02-2008, 14:37

Here is how I use rep: I positive any really helpful or insightful posts, or posts that obviously took a long time to write, are worth reading, and create good discussion

I negative rep only for blatant "we have iphones great deals" spam, or when a "trouble" or extremely anti-GP poster posts, and then posts again refusing to apologize. For example, compare this (http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/showthread.php?postid=245893) thread to this (http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/showthread.php?t=60659) thread. In the first one, I believe that the original post contained a list of overrated teams as well. This was immediately pointed out as anti-GP by Koko Ed. The poster realized this, and immediately apologized and edited the original post.

However, in the second thread, the poster continued to try to push their calling Dean Kamen names through with another post after multiple posters had pointed out that posting this was kind of uncalled for. If they had said in their second post something to the effect of "sorry, i didn't mean to sound that harsh, I was just pointing it out" (kind of hard to do with such an accusation in their first post, but you get the idea,) I wouldn't have negative repped them.

I get most of my rep from insightful or helpful posts like those mentioned above. ex. analysis of 2007 game, posting of a CAD drivetrain, game idea in game design thread that someone liked, opinion on student build vs. mentor build, etc.