View Full Version : Hydrogen Fuel Cells
ok, did a search, didn't find anything so I've got a question for everyone. I am working on a project which I would like to use a fuel cell for. I would probably be running it straight off Hydrogen. I am making a hybrid system for my house and need something to charge batteries. I live in Michigan and its getting cloudier so solar is not as good as I would like. I have a wind generator, have yet to install as I need to machine a mount that would work better. I contacted Heliocentris Energy Systems (www.heliocentris.com) and am in communitcation with one of their reps. I am looking at a 300 watt cell, easily enough to charge for my application. What I am wondering is if anyone has had any experience with Hydrogen fuel cells or knows of any suppliars that I can get cells from directly. I have found ways to build my own, time consuming and I need to find a chemical supplyer. The cell I am looking at is about $7,500. I got a call today saying I won a federal grant, dont know how but I did so this price isn't worrying me but I would like to get one cheaper. I also am hoping to build one able to power my laptops off of for use a comps.
What do you think?
I am sorry, but i do not know anything about fuel cells, other than they would help emmisions in cars. However, what got my attention was this...
I also am hoping to build one able to power my laptops off of for use a comps.
Like i said before, i do not know much about fuel cells, but, i do know one thing. Having hydrogen gas in a FIRST competition could cause serious problems. I understand you would want to find something to power your laptops off of, but something involving hydrogen seems to me like disaster. I may be wrong, but it just seems dangerous to me. But, i do have a solution for powering your laptops at competition. If you purchase a UPS (Uninteruptibale Power Supply, that is if you don't already have one) you could use that. I know that some of the newer ones are able to be turned on without being connected to a wall outlet. They are somewhat lightweight (depending on what size you get) and they can power your computer all day, if you have one that has enough power. Since they are normally used for desktops, i have tried one out to test the time it can run a laptop, and i got tired after five hours, so i turned it off. They even charge automatically when connected to a wall, so it can be used as a portable power supply.
actually, hydrogen wouldn't be THAT dangerous, and an electronics company (forgot which) is finishing a methane fuel cell that's compact for PDAs. The only problem is that it gets warm.
But to answer the original question:
is this (http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=2594&item=5930563661&rd=1) what you wanted at all? If not, there are some books on ebay (http://search.ebay.com/hydrogen-fuel-cell_W0QQsofocusZbsQQsbrftogZ1QQfromZR10QQsacatego ryZ-1Q26catrefQ3DC6QQsotrZ2QQsosortpropertyZ1Q26sosort orderQ3D1QQcoactionZcompareQQcopagenumZ1QQcoentryp ageZsearch) that claim to have instructions on how to build one.
Like i said before, i do not know much about fuel cells, but, i do know one thing. Having hydrogen gas in a FIRST competition could cause serious problems. I understand you would want to find something to power your laptops off of, but something involving hydrogen seems to me like disaster. I may be wrong, but it just seems dangerous to me. But, i do have a solution for powering your laptops at competition. If you purchase a UPS (Uninteruptibale Power Supply, that is if you don't already have one) you could use that. I know that some of the newer ones are able to be turned on without being connected to a wall outlet. They are somewhat lightweight (depending on what size you get) and they can power your computer all day, if you have one that has enough power. Since they are normally used for desktops, i have tried one out to test the time it can run a laptop, and i got tired after five hours, so i turned it off. They even charge automatically when connected to a wall, so it can be used as a portable power supply.
True hydrogen can be hazardous but what I would be using is a small tube of hydrogen about the size of 6 "C" size batteries stacked on end. Hydrogen is safe if you know what you're doing or learn how to treat it properly. Problem with a UPS is that they are more bulky and have the cord dangling and continuously beep which can get annoying and usually actually only have 15 minutes run time with a decent load. Compared to a fuel cell which can weigh only a pound or so which I've seen for laptops. I actually own two power packs which I can run up-to 300 watts off of for a whole day of comps. I actually hauled both back and fourth at nationals this year. For now that will probably be the way I'm going because I've not been able to locate the laptop fuel cell and I also have increased my battery capabilities ( a cooler sized battery pack).
Thanks for your opinion though
actually, hydrogen wouldn't be THAT dangerous, and an electronics company (forgot which) is finishing a methane fuel cell that's compact for PDAs. The only problem is that it gets warm.
But to answer the original question:
is this (http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=2594&item=5930563661&rd=1) what you wanted at all? If not, there are some books on ebay (http://search.ebay.com/hydrogen-fuel-cell_W0QQsofocusZbsQQsbrftogZ1QQfromZR10QQsacatego ryZ-1Q26catrefQ3DC6QQsotrZ2QQsosortpropertyZ1Q26sosort orderQ3D1QQcoactionZcompareQQcopagenumZ1QQcoentryp ageZsearch) that claim to have instructions on how to build one.
Yes, that is similar to what I am looking for but too low power. I contacted a company but their kit similar to the one on ebay just much larger is $31,000 ( Thirty-one Thousand).
Mik AA,
There is a lot of information about fuel Cells out there. Two mian sources to look for a product in your range would be
http://www.fuelcellstore.com/cgi-bin/fuelweb/view=SiteMap
and
http://www.fuelcells.org/
Both of these sources are pretty inclusive of everything there is in the fuel cell world. I actually work for one of these companies and would be glad to point you in a direction ( not trying to sell anything). Contact me directly and i am sure I will be able to help.
A great place to get decent educational level PEM's is ElectroChem. You can find them at www.fuelcell.com.
-Jake
suneel112
31-10-2004, 14:39
I think Motorola is working on a fuel cell powered cell phone (HydroCell?) that will be able to work for one straight month without recharging. Just thought I would put that.
Sparks333
20-11-2004, 01:03
Hello!
I did an ISEF project on hydrogen and its uses as a power source. Believe me, you would do a lot better to modify a standard generator to run of hydrogen directly. It's easy, safe, and there's plans all over the place. It may be a little louder, but much quicker (Ex: a fuel cell is slow but efficient. A hydrogen engine isn't nearly as efficient, but much quicker.) Furthermore, any thoughts that it might explode is bunk. Unless you're using brown's gas (a really stupid thing to do), the hydrogen will (1) not even ignite until it comes within contact with the air, (2) not explode, only burn, unless it's compressed, which is almost never the case when a leak occurs, and (3) float up into the atmosphere, so even if it is burning, it will dissipate into the air quick enough it won't do damage, and it won't stay on the ground, like propane.
Sparks
Hello!
I did an ISEF project on hydrogen and its uses as a power source. Believe me, you would do a lot better to modify a standard generator to run of hydrogen directly. It's easy, safe, and there's plans all over the place. It may be a little louder, but much quicker (Ex: a fuel cell is slow but efficient. A hydrogen engine isn't nearly as efficient, but much quicker.) Furthermore, any thoughts that it might explode is bunk. Unless you're using brown's gas (a really stupid thing to do), the hydrogen will (1) not even ignite until it comes within contact with the air, (2) not explode, only burn, unless it's compressed, which is almost never the case when a leak occurs, and (3) float up into the atmosphere, so even if it is burning, it will dissipate into the air quick enough it won't do damage, and it won't stay on the ground, like propane.
Sparks
What do you mean by quicker? Are you referring to charging rates? I am looking to use a fuel cell because I would like it to be quiet and compact. I am not worried about charge rates too much.
-Mike
Sparks333
20-11-2004, 01:23
I am referring to charging rates, or rather rate of reaction, and if they don't matter, then regard the last post.
Sparks
Hello!
I did an ISEF project on hydrogen and its uses as a power source. Believe me, you would do a lot better to modify a standard generator to run of hydrogen directly. It's easy, safe, and there's plans all over the place. It may be a little louder, but much quicker (Ex: a fuel cell is slow but efficient. A hydrogen engine isn't nearly as efficient, but much quicker.) Furthermore, any thoughts that it might explode is bunk. Unless you're using brown's gas (a really stupid thing to do), the hydrogen will (1) not even ignite until it comes within contact with the air, (2) not explode, only burn, unless it's compressed, which is almost never the case when a leak occurs, and (3) float up into the atmosphere, so even if it is burning, it will dissipate into the air quick enough it won't do damage, and it won't stay on the ground, like propane.
Sparks
I was just going to point out the same thing. A small canister of hydrogen is safer than the small propane tanks used for camp stoves, and you never hear of those exploding.
Most of the perceived danger of hydrogen is actually Nazi propaganda. In the 30s, the United States had the only significant helium generation facilities in the world, and we refused to share the technology with the Germans. After the Hindenburg explosion (which was caused by the rocket-fuel-like coating used to make it shiny, not the hydrogen), the Nazi Minister of Propaganda, who had originally funded the Hindenburg, started spreading the myth that the hydrogen had exploded and that the disaster could have been avoided if the United States had been more open.
In fact, there is evidence that the hydrogen on the Hindenburg never caught fire at all -- it floated away before it could ignite. This is especially likely, because two years before the Hindenburg disaster, a helium dirigible exploded over California just as violently despite the lack of hydrogen.
Sparks333
20-11-2004, 16:41
adding to Ahect's points:
Yes, the Hindenburg's outer covering was made of powdered aluminum, a key ingredient in rocket fuel. Furthermore, yes, it is also true that the hydrogen floated up before igniting. Here's more:
The Hindenburg's passengers were primarily killed by the disel fumes from the 6 diesel V-12 engines powering the zeppelin, not the hydrogen. And yes, it is also true that the Nazi Propganda tried to pin the explosion on the US, blaming the US for not sharing its 'safer' helium production facilities, making the German people mad at the US. In the end, hydrogen really got a bad rap, when it's still one of the best gases out there. It's also 1.5x lighter than helium, which means that hydrogen dirigibles of comparable size can lift more than their helium counterparts.
The Public Must Be Informed.
Sparks
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