New Jersey Regional 2005

[tchescow]

Well, here we go again! :)

As we are so well received every year, we keep coming back! :rolleyes: Who is going? What to expect? As some of you might have noticed there are more brazilian teams coming this year, and almost all of them to Jersey! How does that sound? :)

[Elgin Clock]

Originally, Team 237 was going to attend the Rochester regional and the Philadelphia regional. This was decided with a team vote.

Then due to conflicts with Easter weekend, Philly was dropped, and Trenton was added.

It makes sense too. We'll be back in Jersey defending our 2004 title. Hope to see you all there and good luck to all teams!

(I just hope we show up to NJ a little earlier than 10am on Thursday this year) :ahh:

[tribotec_ca88]

Well, here we go again! :)

As we are so well received every year, we keep coming back! :rolleyes: Who is going? What to expect? As some of you might have noticed there are more brazilian teams coming this year, and almost all of them to Jersey! How does that sound? :)
Count on #1382...and as gian said, expect several more foreigners as well...
(to reduce airfare & hotel costs hehehe)...
Who else on CD is going to NJ? Can't wait to meet everyone in person...
in 2004 our team competed at that regional but i didn't really get a chance to walk around and get acquainted...and besides, i wasn't a chiefdelphi.com addict last year.. :yikes:

[tchescow]

Well, as I wasn't there last year, several health problems kept me away, this year I hope to meet with everyone again! I hope 237 can make to Jersey sooner this season :D Who else is coming? Where are you staying?

[Noah Melamed]

Team 637 from Montville, NJ will be there. Can't wait to see all you guys(and gals). Good luck and cya March 17

[Pin Man]

I'm sorry to say TJ will not be there... :( I really wish we were... This is our first year of not going to the New Jersey Regional since we started... I really wish we could be there... I hope you guys have a lot of fun... I'm going to miss some of the great teams that we spent a lot of time with there last year including 1156, 365, and 173... See you at Nationals!!! (hopefully we qualify)

[Mike Schroeder]

as always team 25 will be there ready for anything, and i will be hiding somewhere volunteering :)

[BandChick]

You can bet on 1089. It wouldn't make sense not to go. Of course, you can't miss our bright silver :)

[av11d]

I look forward to seeing all my old friends at the NJ regional! Team 75 has been there from the start, and we wouldn't miss it for the world!

[Michael Leicht]

Team 303 will be at NJ this year. looking for some fun i know NJ will be fun it always is.

one other thing that is coming to NJ this year is the ECDU for all who do not know what it is that is the East Coast Drivers Union. for all drivers that want to know what it is about it is a drivers union where driver talk to other drivers. if you want to know more contact me on aim at HempGod303
or you can visit the forum in this forum. or you can contact Corey from team 25.

[Aaron]

team 11 is going

[n0t4g4iN]

team 11 is going

As always.

[Dorienne]

I'm very sad to say that Team 007 will not be attending the New Jersey Regional this year! =( Unfortunately, FIRST decided to be evil (haha not really, sorta) and put NJ and Chesapeake during the same week.
This is our second year in 3 years we have not gone, but we do hope to come back to NJ for the 2006 season!

[jessjank.]

Cybersonics Technology Team 103 will most definitely be there! Gotta love the NJ Regional and all the great teams that compete there! So sad to hear that some of you won't be coming, but oh well. NJ's gonna rock this year!

[Jaine Perotti]

Team 716 will be at the New Jersey regional this year!

Last year we were finalists, and we hope to do as well, if not better this year!
Those were some exciting finals matches last year... I will never forget watching us lift two other robots with us onto the bar in the final match -- there were already two other robots on the bar, 237 and our alliance partner -- and we drove up underneath them and lifted them, as well as us, for the 50 points! :ahh: It was intense!

Can't wait to see you all there!

-- Jaine

[edit] It's soo sad that teams 88 and 365 are not coming... we are losing some of the best, the loudest and the brightest! :(

[slickguy2007]

1403 is gonna go to the NJ regional again!!! Last year was so awesome that the NJ regional is always gonna be our first pick.



GO 1403!!!

2004 NJ Rookie All Stars
2004 NJ Highest Seeded Rookie Team
2004 Xerox Creativity
2004 Newton Field Rookie Highest Seeded Team

[DUCKIE]

Sadly, 365 will not be attending the NJ regional this year. [It is team preference not to do back to back weekends] So we are going to Pittsburg and Philadelphia. [I have already put my name down to do queueing at both regionals... and nationals.]

I already foresee the easter weekend competitions being rough though... since most people will be home/away with family [except me]. That will put quite a dent in the attendance... and prob. the # of volunteers running the event. [Which will also does not bode well because that is the weekend FIRST is having the most competitions. [7 in all.]]

[Conor Ryan]

last time i checked it was an all New Jersey Team regional but that may have changed. Looks like its gonna be a really good competition, so back your robots work so its competitive, but not good enough to beat ours.

Oh 1403 will be there.

[Pin Man]

last time i checked it was an all New Jersey Team regional but that may have changed. Looks like its gonna be a really good competition, so back your robots work so its competitive, but not good enough to beat ours.

Oh 1403 will be there.
NJ is always a greeeeeeaaaaaaaatttttt competition... Man I wish we were going... The FIRST year since our team started that we are not going... Tis a sad time for me... :(

[mhayon]

Team 1676 will be attending the NJ Regional. I'm looking forward to meeting all of you guys.

We're a rookie team from Bergen County, mentored and heavily funded by Mercedes-Benz USA. We have a website at www.teampioneers.com if you want to check us out, and we have a lot of info if you're interested.

Feel free to drop me a line at mhayon@pascack.k12.nj.us.

Thanks,
Matt

[nuggetsyl]

wow why is team 88 not coming to nj? and why did moe go to phily instead of nj?

[Nitroxextreme]

team 1626 is on its way

[Carol]

wow why is team 88 not coming to nj? and why did moe go to phily instead of nj?


MOE considers Philly our home regional, one we can all attend without having to spend the night. We'll miss NJ - last year we had a great time there and met lots of great people!

[Elgin Clock]

last time i checked it was an all New Jersey Team regional but that may have changed. Looks like its gonna be a really good competition, so back your robots work so its competitive, but not good enough to beat ours.

Oh 1403 will be there.
It better not be. Teams 237 (mine) and 716 (maybe more?) are driving down from DA CUTTT to compete in Jersey! I hope we are on the list!! :ahh: :ahh:

[Mike Schroeder]

This is turning into anything but an all NJ team regional

we have

5 Teams from Pennsylvania (103, 272, 486, 528, 834)
4 Teams From New York (369, 375, 694, 1688 )
3 Teams From Conneticut (237, 716, 1699)
2 Teams From Brazil (1156, 1382)
1 Team from Massachusetts (1152)
and
1 Team from Puerto Rico (1144)

as well as all the NJ teams 11,25,41,56,75,102,136,219,223,224,293,303,381,550 ,613,
637,714,752,869,896,1089,1187,1228,1279,1302,1366, 1367,1384,
1403,1412,1563,1616,1617,1626,1672,1676,and 1689


Looks like a tough bunch this year

Good luck to all the teams

[slickguy2007]

last time i checked it was an all New Jersey Team regional but that may have changed. Looks like its gonna be a really good competition, so back your robots work so its competitive, but not good enough to beat ours.

Oh 1403 will be there.


Don't mind him.... he's just a noob. He'll learn soon enough.


GO 1403!!!

[George A.]

Well it's official, I'll be the man behind the mic in Trenton. Kevin Nolan (the volunteer coordinator for Trenton) emailed me and said that I'd be the Game Announcer for the regional. I've taken the online training course and I'm going to place my announcing skills to the test (I've announced at PARC, First Frenzy Finale and several state lego tournaments). I can't wait. I'll be around on thursday to talk to all the teams...I'll see you all then.

[Babyhueyhnx]

486 will be at NJ for the first time ever. Sadly we will not be attending Philly as it falls on spring break. unfortunately all our mentors/teachers are going away that week.

[Spikey]

Team 293 will be there, we are one of the many BMS teams that consider this our home regional. You can find me as our team's HP or up by the concession stands with a latop, protable HD, camera and speakers for scouting. We are going to record every single match so if you are our alliance partner be sure to check with our scouting crew for video of the opposing alliance robots. We are going to have 7 full time scouts this year:)

[Elgin Clock]

Well it's official, I'll be the man behind the mic in Trenton. Kevin Nolan (the volunteer coordinator for Trenton) emailed me and said that I'd be the Game Announcer for the regional. I've taken the online training course and I'm going to place my announcing skills to the test (I've announced at PARC, First Frenzy Finale and several state lego tournaments). I can't wait. I'll be around on thursday to talk to all the teams...I'll see you all then.
<tangent>

Congratulations and Good luck!!!
The best advice I can give to you is to learn everyone's team names but also see if any have another name they go by to spice things up. (Like us :cool: )

Good luck announcing, and Congratulations on your first FIRST Regional announcing job. :)
That makes at least 2 new FIRST Regional announcers in 2 weeks.

</tangent>

[Chino 237]

I couldn't be more pumped for trenton. 3 days!
:ahh:

[JohnBoucher]

Any info on a NJ webcast?

[Spikey]

They don't usually webcast NJ, but I wish they did, I'd offer up my camera to help support a webcast if someone can provide bandwidth and a media player of some sort.

[Arefin Bari]

I only wish if I was there...

... Where is my plain ticket brat, corey, alex?

[Aaron]

Well, as I wasn't there last year, several health problems kept me away, this year I hope to meet with everyone again! I hope 237 can make to Jersey sooner this season :D Who else is coming? Where are you staying?


I'm staying in my nice warm bed :D ( we drive down each day )

[Aaron]

W00t, Trenton is only 15 hours away

[Jaine Perotti]

Team 716 is coming to the New Jersey Regional!

We did well in Hartford (3rd seed, quarter finalists, Judge's Award), but we are hoping to improve our team's ability to communicate so that we can do even better this time around. We are also going to work on improving our strategy. Last year, we came very close to winning the New Jersey Regional, but we lost in the finals to teams 56, 237, and 303.... all very amazing robots. I can't wait to see what they have in store for us this year!

The regional looks like it has a good mix of rookies and veterans...more rookies than were at the UTC regional. Also, I think there are a few Brazilian teams going (2 or 3?). It looks like there will be some veteran powerhouse teams as well.. such as team 25... just looking at the pictures of their robot makes me feel nervous!

I like the way that New Jersey was set up last year... there was always a good view from the stands, as compared to UTC where the view isn't quite as good. It also wasn't a ridiculously long distance between the stands and the pits, although slightly long. I liked how they had a screen last year in the pit area so that you could watch matches without having to go to the stands in the first place. That was helpful for the pit crew in finals was we needed to be on standby for battery changes and repairs.

This year, as well as last year and the year before, we are staying at our former principal's summer home in Tom's River, NJ. Even though it is about an hour away from Trenton, and the house is extremely small with only one bathroom, it is free.... and therefore we are taking the opportunity to stay there!

Good luck to all teams in New Jersey...hope to see you all there!

-- Jaine

[Elgin Clock]

I hope 237 can make to Jersey sooner this season :D
Meh.. look what that bad luck brought us last year. Very good luck on the field. :cool:

Anywho.. The team is leaving at about 5:30 tonight to drive to Jersey and staying overnight.

So... unless the bus is more than 12 hours late in picking them up, I would say that we should be on time. (knock on wood). :p

[Justin]

Webcast?????????

Just wondering if anyone knew if there was going to be a webcast of the NJ regional anywhere?? I know sometimes even if NASA doesn't do it teams will step up and provide a webcast.

Thanks for any info,

Justin

[George A.]

Only 17 hours till the doors open to the pits!! I know I'm excited. Now if you'll excuse me I have to go get ready to head over to the volunteer meet and greet. Later chitlings.

[Conor Ryan]

wow everyone, great round today. at first it didn't look like anyone was doing so well but as the day went on, the robots got better and better. What did everyone think of the round where the red alliance got a 110 points of penalties. that was probably the biggest news all day.

Teams that stood out:
237 (probably best overall robot)
103 (quick on the ground, and quick capping-bonus points for their pit)
1688 (probably best rookie team all day, don't cap, they dump tetras on the bottom)
57 (strong capper)

Autonomous is somewhat rare, but we'll see more of that tommorow, and nobody has gotten the vision tetras in autonomous, but several teams are in the hunt.

Organization of the regional is smooth and the handout about the penalty definitions and clarifications was really helpful. Props to the judges and organizers for that. The safety award seems to be going well and is a pretty intresting set up.

good job everyone!

[George A.]

wow everyone, great round today. at first it didn't look like anyone was doing so well but as the day went on, the robots got better and better. What did everyone think of the round where the red alliance got a 110 points of penalties. that was probably the biggest news all day.

Teams that stood out:
237 (probably best overall robot)
103 (quick on the ground, and quick capping-bonus points for their pit)
1688 (probably best rookie team all day, don't cap, they dump tetras on the bottom)
57 (strong capper)

Autonomous is somewhat rare, but we'll see more of that tommorow, and nobody has gotten the vision tetras in autonomous, but several teams are in the hunt.

Organization of the regional is smooth and the handout about the penalty definitions and clarifications was really helpful. Props to the judges and organizers for that. The safety award seems to be going well and is a pretty intresting set up.

good job everyone!

Just to clarify the 110 pt penalty. It was actually 20 pts worth of penalties. John, the head referee marked down two lines on the score card under penalties box. The scorekeeper Josh read that as 11 instead of two tally marks, and assessed penalties as such.

On another note. I say by far the best team at the competition is 56. Everytime I would turn around they would be back at the human player loading station and a goal would be capped. I'm sensing that 56 and 237 are teaming up again to take home the NJ Regional Championship.

[Corey Balint]

-In case the other thread gets covered up-

Well today, alot of teams were feeling out there robots, and alot were not ready to go until 2 o'clock. Past that, the usual suspects were pretty darn good, 56, 237, 303, 11, cough 25 cough(have to drop it in), and 103.

56 and 237 have been tops so far, with 56 being able to cap the most in a round(8). 237 is close to getting a vision, but not close enough, everytime they have picked it up, they dont catch it at the right angle, and drop it too early, or it just slides off.

The match of the day, of what i saw, was between us and 56. I dont remember the alliances exactly, but it was 2 on 2. each team got their home row, and each had one side goal capped. The center was a battle at the end, We had first capped it early, and had left it untouched. With about 15 seconds left, both opponents head to it. Seeing this, we dropped ours and went off to block. Successfully holding off both teams, we still lost the match by one point(sigh). But, with a penalty on 56's alliance, we took the win by 9. Was very exciting to myself, and from what i saw, the crowd thought it too. Ill try to upload a video of it tonite, and ill post a link of it later.

I also stood on the human player zone for a missing team during a 237 round, and was very impressed with their efficiency. Was quite good. Never dropped a tet or missed a cap.

But Penalties, unprepared robots, and lack of driver training have ruled the day. Look for much better competition tomorrow.

[petek]

I'll add a few teams which impressed me today: 1279, 1228, 869 & 293
Plus the usual suspects: 25, 56, 102, 103* & 237
* when on all fours

Robbe was clearly the most consistent scorer today. 25 dared anyone to try to push them around (no takers that I saw) and after spending most of practice scoring tetras, 102 showed a brief glimpse of awesome defensive play late in the day.

Things started out pretty slowly, but most teams seemed to be getting their acts together in the afternoon. Turnaround wasn't as quick as it should be, though that got better later in the day, too. At the end of practice we were still working the bugs out of real-time scoring - hopefully it will be working for tomorrows matches.

Wayne's Tiki looks safe so far.

[Brandon Holley]

-In case the other thread gets covered up-

Well today, alot of teams were feeling out there robots, and alot were not ready to go until 2 o'clock. Past that, the usual suspects were pretty darn good, 56, 237, 303, 11, cough 25 cough(have to drop it in), and 103.



Hey, thanks...we were really dissappointed with our performance today :( :(

We hit EVERY LITTLE problem along the way and in the end were a little bit better....Tomorrow we will be back to our good old selves ( at least our drive train kicked some booty )

[av11d]

56, 103 & 237 seemed to stand out in my mind. I think we're in for a really competitive regional. The robots look terrific.

Good luck to everyone tomorrow!

[CatchRothy22]

We hit EVERY LITTLE problem along the way and in the end were a little bit better....Tomorrow we will be back to our good old selves ( at least our drive train kicked some booty )

I'll quote you on that one. Every single problem you could emagine happened with our end effector. Drive train is sick. We gotta fix some bugs and we should be stacking tetras tomorrow :)

237 and 25 stick out in my mind.

[Meyerman]

I'm not telling anyone what I think of any robots untill I get my sombrero back!!!!!! who steals another mans sombrero!

P.S.
stop stealing our award just because it says sacramento.

[Rich Kressly]

The FIRST site isn't able to report match scores :( Who out there has an update on the NJ Regional?

[Jessica Boucher]

I just recieved a call from my dad saying that 237 has scored a vision tetra on the side goal in autonomous!!!

Great job, guys! :D

[thoughtful]

I just recieved a call from my dad saying that 237 has scored a vision tetra on the side goal in autonomous!!!

Great job, guys! :D

WOW!, we all knew they could do it, and they did it, i wana watch the video!!! :D

[Spikey]

I just recieved a call from my dad saying that 237 has scored a vision tetra on the side goal in autonomous!!!

Great job, guys! :D
They were successful and the refs were not sure what to do. However they lost that match because of excellent play by the other alliance who capped 6 goals.

We have had a fairly successful day despite some alliance parings that often had us flying solo or with one working partner. In our first 4 matches we had at least one alliance partner not function, and out of the 6 matches we had we had too play solo twice! During our solo rounds we won once, but lost the other because our alliance partner de-scored our back row. I must say the robots this year at NJ are not as strong as they used to be, the difference between the top teams and the middle and bottom teams is very pronounced. Hopefully things will improve for some teams who are having problems with their arms or DTs.
Can't wait till tomorrow.

[Rich Kressly]

I'm suffering from serious lack of info here.. :ahh:

Can anyone post the Fri NJ awards and the top 8 teams? There may be Krispy Kremes in it for you...

[Conor Ryan]

look what i found!

Imagery........272

Radio Shack Innovation in Control...................................237

Xerox Creativity........................................ ..................716

Delphi Drive Tommorows Technology...............................25

Kleiner, Perkins, Caufield and Byers (entrepreneurship).......103

Judge's Award............................................. ..............136

Website........................................... ........................752

Autodesk Visualization..................................... ............75


trying to find my match results. i have it somewhere

[Joe Matt]

25 winning Delph? Not surprised, they always do great.

Anyone at the scoring table tomorrow? Say hi to my dad, he looks like me and should have a Sparky hat on.

[George A.]

Number 1 seed is 56 (big surprise) they're 6-0. NOt sure who the other ones are but i think that 1089 is in there 272 is in there somewhere. I'd like to put myself up to the test. How am I doing calling the play by play? It's my first FIRST regional doing this and I'd like to get your feedback. I'll keep track of more stuff for you all tomorrow.

Later

[av11d]

56 is just.. awesome. Great job.

237 seemed to have some unfortunate alliance pairings, so they are little low in the rankings. I think they could easily win all three of their matches tomorrow and climb into the top 8.. or at least get picked first round.

103 and 25 are still two of the top teams in my opinion. Tomorrow will be competitive... good luck to everyone!!

[Conor Ryan]

anyone see any good rookie teams out there?

My favorite rookie bot, 1688. these guys are the preachers of KISS (keep it simple stupid) went with an absurdly simple bot and used most kit parts and came out with one of the most effective bots on the field. they decided not to build an arm and they go with a dump truck style bot and dump tetras underneath, they maybe only one point, but they all count. 1689 (whatever the green bot was) also looked pretty advanced for a rookie team.

Rookie Inspiration:1626, It's kinda sad, they got all the stuff a veteran team has, it makes us look real bad being an older team and not having all the team propoganda that they had. But 1626 is a team to watch for in the future, and definetly a future chairman's candidate. These guys look really bright

[M. Hicken]

Team 219 is having a few issues but were making our way through them. We had a small gear welded to the CIKM shafts(x2 motors). We modified an old gear box design. Unfortunitly(sp) the teeth are too small and stated to shear off yesterday. Now we are down to one motor, since we didnt take broken gears into account for spare parts. Our stupid mistake.

Overall im not too happy with our performance thus far, our drivers do not have a good handle on the system. Except the arm, which works now. The later in the day we got, the better things went. I am really impressed with other teams this year. Working well together and have great, working deisgns. We went with a simple cross grabber to keep the weight down at the end of the arm. There are alot of teams with pneumatic mechs and many other things. Im really supprised simplicity was not a key factor this year.

See you tomorrow, good luck.

Rememer us for the finals, we drive really defencivly. :D

[George A.]

I'm still sticking by my guns, team 56 and 237 are going to be 2 of the 3 (or 4) teams taking home the championship. Other than that I think that 25 and 1382 are definately going to be in the mix for tomorrows race to the finish. But with 24 teams going to elims, 8 teams being set aside for standby and only 53 teams at the event that makes only 21 teams that won't be picked. So here's the best of luck to everyone tomorrow. I'll be acting "as the voice of God" or so they say. I'm taking your comments and putting them into my act, I'll try to make this the best regional ever.

[BandChick]

Rich,

56 is definitely first
637 is up there along with 25, and 1403, i think?
1089 was #1 for a while, but now we're like...13th or something, maybe lower.
237 isn't as high as i expected them to be.
1279 is somewhere in the top eight, but i can't remember where.

don't remember the top eight unfortunately X___x but i hope that helps a little!

[jfischer]

Here's the standings after Friday's play:

1 - 56 (6-0)
2- 272 (5-1-1)
3 - 637 (5-1)
4 - 1626 (5-1)
5 - 75 (5-1)
6 - 223 (5-2)
7 - 869 (5-2)
8 - 528 (5-2)
9 - 486 (5-1)
10 - 752 (4-1-1)
11 - 25 (4-2-1)
12 - 1688 (4-3)
13 - 293 (4-2)
14 - 1403 (4-2)
15 - 11 (4-3)
16 - 224 (4-3)

[galewind]

Rich,

56 is definitely first
637 is up there along with 25, and 1403, i think?
1089 was #1 for a while, but now we're like...13th or something, maybe lower.
237 isn't as high as i expected them to be.
1279 is somewhere in the top eight, but i can't remember where.

don't remember the top eight unfortunately X___x but i hope that helps a little!

We're currently #25. A disappointing ref call and two bad rounds took us from 1st to 25th pretty quickly. Such is the way qualifying rounds go. I just hope we push back tomorrow.

[Spikey]

Here's the standings after Friday's play:

1 - 56 (6-0)
2- 272 (5-1-1)
3 - 637 (5-1)
4 - 1626 (5-1)
5 - 75 (5-1)
6 - 223 (5-2)
7 - 869 (5-2)
8 - 528 (5-2)
9 - 486 (5-1)
10 - 752 (4-1-1)
11 - 25 (4-2-1)
12 - 1688 (4-3)
13 - 293 (4-2)
14 - 1403 (4-2)
15 - 11 (4-3)
16 - 224 (4-3)
Some teams have been remarkably lucky, we were reviewing tape last night and some of the top 8 were very lucky with alliance pairings. I think today the top 15 will change quite a bit since many teams are within striking distance of the top 8.
We should have been 5-1 but one of our alliance partners touched our back home row and de-scored it, the worst part about that is that we were missing a robot and we could not get the 10 points for being in the home zone so it was de-scored for no reason. Well we will be back today:)

[Rich Kressly]

Results

http://www2.usfirst.org/2005comp/Events/NJ/awards.html

[Mike Ciance]

congratulations to team 11 for winning chairmans. they're a great team and well-deserving of recognition :)

[av11d]

The regional was superb, everyone. Those finals matches were amazing. 237, 56, and 103 were definitely the top tier of teams at this regional. Congrats to Team 11 MORT on their well-deserved chairman's entry. A special thanks to our alliance partners 869 and 1214 for putting up such a valiant effort. We just ended up one point too short.

So who's going to Atlanta?

[tkwetzel]

So I hear that there was a bomb threat at the arena after the competition?!?

[George A.]

Well I was almost right. 237 and 56 were in the finals. And in all my years of FIRST that was the best final round I've ever had the pleasure of seeing. Now I can start recoooperating for next week at NYC! Congrats to teams 1279 103 and 375 on their win...and of course 11! They definately deserved that Chairmans Award...

On another note. 2 things. I'd like feedback on my play by play announcing. What did I do well, and what can I improve upon. I'm doing back up play by play in NYC and Randy Schaeffer and Don Bowers were so impressed they're trying to get me a volunteer job in Atlanta. SO PLEASE GIVE ME SOME FEEDBACK!

Awesome competition and I'll see you all in Atlanta (hopefully)

[mtaman02]

Who were the regional Winners for the NJ Regional ?

[sw293]

Why was there a rematch in the final round?

I wish there was a fifth game. Yes, it would have been unprecedented, but also unprecedented in excitement and suspense.

IMO, all regional finals should be best of five. What do you think?

[Bluesky55J]

well, there was a replayed match in the finals because one team claimed to be having communication issues with the field. The match decision was a tough one to call and they decided it on gracious professionalism. The scoring and field controll computer was also having some problems during the quarter finals up to the end. all the numbers had to be manual typed into the system and still showed up wrong on the screen when scores where shown. the refs. really do have their work cut out for them this year. my big question is what are the going by, the time on the clock or the sounds being played. there was always a switch and some teams got penalties for touching controls b4 the buzzer but the clock was claimed to be at 120. it was a long day!

[sw293]

[QUOTE=Bluesky55J]well, there was a replayed match in the finals because one team claimed to be having communication issues with the field. The match decision was a tough one to call and they decided it on gracious professionalism.[QUOTE]

I was rooting for the 1279 alliance, but I didn't think the way the regional ended was particularly fair. IMO, gracious professionalism should have nixed the fourth match and given the alliances and the fans a fifth for all the marbles.

Communications issues were a big problem in this regional. We had problems controlling our arm both in and out of autonomous that never manifested when we tested the robot on tether and then showed up randomly when we were playing. Then there was red human player pad #2, which caused us a bit trouble, and caused match #37 on Friday to be postponed. Did anybody else have these types of problems during the regional? I suspect the answer is yes.

[Rich Wong]

The scoring and field controll computer was also having some problems during the quarter finals up to the end. all the numbers had to be manual typed into the system and still showed up wrong on the screen when scores where shown. the refs. really do have their work cut out for them this year. my big question is what are the going by, the time on the clock or the sounds being played. there was always a switch and some teams got penalties for touching controls b4 the buzzer but the clock was claimed to be at 120. it was a long day!

Same problem in L.I. Regional. The scorekeeper almost pulled his hair out during quarter finals when everyone kept yelling at him. :ahh:

[Cory]

IMO, all regional finals should be best of five. What do you think?

No way, it would be way too hard on the machines, and FIRST's schedule to run 5 matches in the finals.

my big question is what are the going by, the time on the clock or the sounds being played. there was always a switch and some teams got penalties for touching controls b4 the buzzer but the clock was claimed to be at 120. it was a long day!

Sounds can, and have repeatedly messed up. I have yet to see the clock fail.

Referees should be going by the clock, not the sounds.

[BoyWithCape195]

[QUOTE=Bluesky55J]well, there was a replayed match in the finals because one team claimed to be having communication issues with the field. The match decision was a tough one to call and they decided it on gracious professionalism.[QUOTE]

I was rooting for the 1279 alliance, but I didn't think the way the regional ended was particularly fair. IMO, gracious professionalism should have nixed the fourth match and given the alliances and the fans a fifth for all the marbles.

Communications issues were a big problem in this regional. We had problems controlling our arm both in and out of autonomous that never manifested when we tested the robot on tether and then showed up randomly when we were playing. Then there was red human player pad #2, which caused us a bit trouble, and caused match #37 on Friday to be postponed. Did anybody else have these types of problems during the regional? I suspect the answer is yes.

I think that the replay was totally fair. They were not getting signal to their bot, so they could not control it, that it being Firsts problem, and not the teams. Also, if there was no replay...there wouldn't have been all that excitement of the 103 alliance coming to win it all :)

[Mike Schroeder]

So I hear that there was a bomb threat at the arena after the competition?!?

It wasn't a bomb threat. Supposedly someone spilled a non-spill able battery and we had to evacuate due to the fumes. I know several teams are still at the site working to get their bots in their crates, so its going to be a late night for them.



Yes there was a bomb threat, apperntly someone made decided to pull a prank and called it in from a payphone in the in the Soverign Bank Arena
everyone calmly evacuated the building and we waited outside, Trenton Police Searched the Building but to be completly safe, the NJ State Police came and conducted their own search, after about 3 hours, Teams were allowed to finish packing up, and first started feild take down.

Just a request, please lets not continue discussion about this, I personally do not want to see it go off in the wrong direction



Oh btw, How did i do, with my emcee training, any tips and pointers will be a great help :)

[galewind]

It wasn't a bomb threat. Supposedly someone spilled a non-spill able battery and we had to evacuate due to the fumes. I know several teams are still at the site working to get their bots in their crates, so its going to be a late night for them.

That's incorrect. It was a bomb threat. I was interrogated about it.

Long story, but ..

The phone that received the bomb threat was a payphone for the building. It just so happens that my bus driver used that phone to try to reach me earlier in the day, and when I called it back when we were outside to try to tell them we had to wait longer, I was told to describe what I was wearing and that someone would talk to me (they didn't identify themselves as police). I originally thought it may have been a teammate of mine's cell phone that someone got ahold of, so I went to find them. Then I called it back and said "I'm in the lot by the cop car, are you over there?" And they said yes. So they gave me a place to meet them, and I found them... as I approached them with my backpack in-hand, they said "don't move, put your bag down, and come with me".
They took me across the street, I had to give them some info, etc, while a woman searched my bag on the other side...I told them my story... and then they let me go. As I was walking back my bus driver saw me, and wanted to know the story.... so I told her what was going on, and I asked when and where she called me, and she said it was from the payphone in the building.

When we were told that it would at least be another hour, our team walked to a pizza shop. As we walked back, we saw them bringing in another set of bomb-sniffing dogs. Apparently they had to do three checks with different dogs, and that the state police was bringing two more dogs.

Man, what a day....

First, I take my first ambulance ride ever with one of my students who had a glow stick burst in his eye (another story for another time, but that's why 1089 called a time out after the first QF round).... and then I get interrogated by the police. FIRST ALWAYS promises good times!

[Meyerman]

that was an awsome regional guys congrats on 1279,103,and 375 on that come back after the radio problems. we ended up 1st seed went 8-1-0,we got with our good ol' friends 237, and 303 again, we got a cool pink award from 237 for best autonomous, and the Motorola Quality Award soo we made out alright maybe in philly we can get some more cool awards and maybe a win. see yall there..

P.S.
for those who care i got my sombrero back and i liked teams 237,303,25,103,224,272.

[Aaron]

good job 1279 , 103, 375. very good regional. We all knew u beat us in our 3rd quarterfinal match but until we watched that match i never realized that we were only 2 inches from getting back to our zone and winning the quarterfinal. it was a great match anyways and i wish u all luck at nationals.

[Chino 237]

All in all it was a great comp, kinda bumbed about the refs decision in the finals, but what are you gonna do.. we did cap in autonomous mode using the camera! check the vid. http://www.team237.com/videos/Auto_Vision_Cap.wmv

[Brandon Holley]

Thanks to everyone for congratulating us on our chairmans award win. It feels so good to get that award after 9 years of solid dedication to FIRST. We hope to make a good standing at nationals.

As for our robot, as the competition went on, we progressed in leaps and bounds We found defense to be a VERY VERY EFFECTIVE strategy and were selected for that reason. From thursday not capping one tetra, to the last match saturday, capping the opponents home zone, the middle, and two of our home zone all while playing defense was a great accomplishment for us. We go to Palmetto with a solid foundation to work from and a nice shiny new banner reading "2005 Chairmans Award Winner - New Jersey Regional"

[George A.]

Anyone have video from NJ? I'd love to have some to show my manager who's thinking of contributing some money next year. If you can send it to me I'd owe you one!

[mtaman02]

Despite the computer / communication / and other such problems congradulations to all the teams that participated in the NJ Regional. Congrads to all the award winners of the event, congrads to 1279, 103 and 375 for winning the event.


And special congrads to team 375 for bringing Staten Islands first Regional Win of 2005 ! =) Hope to see all of you at Nationals.

[Chino 237]

We have a bunch of video from the comp, but its only of when we were on the field.

[BandChick]

I know 1089 took a lot of video. There's probably some that isn't even our team. I will search through what we've got and post anything worth watching here XD

Congrats to everyone who won awards and to the teams that won the regional :)
Everyone put out a very competitive robot this year.

[Corey Balint]

Congrats to all the winners. 103 1279 and 375, sure gave me a surprise. I had been confident enough to think that we were the only alliance that could possibly take down 303 237 56, because of our defensive background. But I was clearly wrong and incredibly surprised. Tremendous job.

To 56, 237, and 303, you guys were amazing, I never expected a loss from you three, shows how much this game can surprise you. It was an alliance made of my best friends, and made me incredibly disappointed to see you guys lose(some tears may have been shed including my own). BTW, Thanks to the three drive teams for letting me make that speech before round three.

And of course to our tremendous alliance partners, 716 and 102. You guys were outstanding. I never would have thought that we could possibly pick you both. The defense 716 put out was amazing, no one, except centripetal force could take you down. 102 you guys were also great, a steal for a 2nd rounder. The triple play we established in the autonomous of every match was astonishing. Of course I wish the outcome would have been different, but it still feels great that we did so well together and lost to the eventual champions.

I would also like to congratulate 1676, 1626, and 1688 on their awards. We have worked with all of them this year, and have so many great things to say about them. It is really great to see young teams like this succed.

[Michael Leicht]

Congrats to all the winners. 103 1279 and 375, sure gave me a surprise. I had been confident enough to think that we were the only alliance that could possibly take down 303 237 56, because of our defensive background. But I was clearly wrong and incredibly surprised. Tremendous job.

To 56, 237, and 303, you guys were amazing, I never expected a loss from you three, shows how much this game can surprise you. It was an alliance made of my best friends, and made me incredibly disappointed to see you guys lose(some tears may have been shed). BTW, Thanks to the three drive teams for letting me make that speech before round three.

And of course to our tremendous alliance partners, 716 and 102. You guys were outstanding. I never would have thought that we could possibly pick you both. The defense 716 put out was amazing, no one, except centripetal force could take you down. 102 you guys were also great, a steal for a 2nd rounder. The triple play we established in the autonomous of every match was astonishing. Of course I wish the outcome would have been different, but it still feels great that we did so well together and lost to the eventual champions.

thanks Corey. i was the one that shed a couple tears. was a difficult lose for our alliance but in the end congrats to 103 375 1279 they did a great job. thanks to 56 and 237 they are just the greatest teams we could of been with and just great. thanks Anthony and Scott and i can't forget my coach and copilot Keith and big mike(from our team). and just the whole two teams. could not of done any of this without the help from theses great teams.

Never thought our alliance could get 100 point. thanks for that guys.

[DonRotolo]

George,
Quick feedback on your play-by-play: Excellent. As a rookie mentor I can't say that I have much to compare against, but I found that the calling was absolutely an enhancement to the action. In the pits (watching the monitor) I would be able to figure out more of what was going on than just by the video. In the stands your calls helped me focus on what to look at.

You definitely were 100% professional, in sound and in the excitement you created for each match. I only realized late Friday that you weren't a paid pro brought in just for the event.

Thanks!

Don
1676 - Rookie All Stars from NJ

[HellStorm303]

Yeah, it was a tough loss. My full congrats go to 1279, 103, and 375. During the final match between that alliance and the 25 alliance, i was worried cause i knew who ever won, it was gonna be hard for us. I had a great time, oh and i really have to give props to Falcon Robotics. You guys were so official knew what you were doing for that final match with us in qualifications i didn't even realize you guys were rookies. This was one great experience.

[Conor Ryan]

that was great.

Play by play was excellent-My mom told me afterword out of the blue that it was a phonominal voice performance. Great job George.

As good as 237 was in autonomous, I still think that our Brazilian Buddies at 1382 did have a better one, the knocked one of the hanging ones down and capped, that was a nice feat within itself, great job to both teams for that, its not easy as we found. we only got our's working the last day of competition, as 237 knows when we knocked them during autonomous so they couldn't cap. Sorry about it, you guys had a great accomplishment. What about the center?

3 rookie team really stood out, the All Star-Pioneers, (1676) the Highest Seed-Falcon Robotics and the Inspiration-(1688) all of you guys comprised of a strong rookie class, all 3 of you guys were in it for the rookie awards.

Very well organized, great job anyone who had anything to do with it.

but watch for 1403 at Buckeye we made some big time improvements on saturday.

[sabrina752]

This was my first competition, seeing as how I joined this year, and wow...it was truly amazing. Everyone was kind and so nice... I must say that I truly want to thank all of you for making this FIRST (literally, too) experience for me a fantastic one! I look forward to seeing whatever teams come to nationals. Good luck everyone! ;)

---Sabrina

[Elgin Clock]

I think that the replay was totally fair. They were not getting signal to their bot, so they could not control it, that it being Firsts problem, and not the teams. I have to disagree with this one, and try not to be biased by the fact that I am on a team in the losing alliance.

I have video of the robot performing superbly (knocking off a tetra in autonomous, and playing defense to team on their side and the other side of the field, and everything) until 23 seconds remaining in the match (as called plain as day by the announcer) when they smashed into the center goal.

Now, unless they are really fast and that was a really hard knock into the center goal and the vibration from that carried all the way over to the field controllers and dislodged a wire to make it a communications error, then I would have to say that this call was one of the worst ones my team has ever had to be a recipient of and it basically cost us the regional. :(
I think it was a hard hit to their end of the bot thus being their problem, not a field problem that requires a rematch.
Did I mention that the other 2 robots on that team were knocked over in the heat of the match. But the same thing happened to 2 of our robots in the next match which was the rematch in question, so I won't go there.

[Elgin Clock]

On a more positive note, I was checking out stories from NJ news papers, and found this article in The Times


Nuts and bolts of technology

Sunday, March 20, 2005

By MIRTA D'AMATO

Staff Writer

TRENTON - With the help of their human creators, high school robots battled it out during the ninth annual FIRST Robotics competition at the Sovereign Bank Arena yesterday.

The two-day "Triple Play" challenge attracted teams from several local schools, including TrentonCentralHigh School, and others from as far as Puerto Rico and Brazil.

"It's a competition where teams of young men and women have worked with engineering mentors from local companies or universities to build a robotic competitor," said Randy Schaeffer, FIRST regional director for New Jersey and New York City. "They compete in a game based on strategy, technical prowess and the ability of a human player."

Sponsored by several local companies including Johnson & Johnson and Bristol-Myers Squibb, the FIRST (For Inspiration and Recognition of Science and Technology) event kicked off at 9 a.m. with 2-minute, 15-second robotic matches on a 27-foot-by-52-foot playing field.

Working together, TCHS juniors Detlev Yanez, 17, Justino Cortez, 18, and Guillermo Diaz, 16, strategically guided their 130-pound Patriot into the semifinals yesterday.

"I thought I was going to mess up, but I did pretty good," said Diaz, who hustled to place tetrahedrons on their robot's claw. "I had to make sure that I didn't touch the robot at all."

With skill and precision, Cortez, the team's captain and driver, strategically maneuvered the bot to place tetras on similarly shaped goals, while six other robots were doing the same.

"This is my third year competing," Cortez said. "It takes a lot of teamwork and a lot of after-school hours to build it."

HightstownHigh School student Ray Palmere, 15, said there are many challenges on the playing field.

"It's the ongoing changing of strategies," said Palmere, team driver whose robot, Quicksilver, made it to the quarter-finals. "A lot of times you can't figure out the strategies to use, a lot of times you can. Once you can it's good."

Helping to make the program a success, high school students work closely with team mentors to design and build the remote-controlled robots.

"FIRST gives you six weeks to design a robot, come up with a game strategy and build a robot," said Dave Cipolloni, TCHS teacher leader for applied engineering and science. "During that six weeks, we spend at least six days a week, sometimes seven, working on the robot. We work after school until 9 or 10 p.m. and sometimes after midnight to get the job done. You have to come up with the strategy of how you are going to play the game and then come up with a concept on how you are going to design the robot to implement that strategy. Once you do that, then you have to start making your drawings so that you can fabricate the parts and make your robot."

FIRST is a nonprofit organization that introduces high school students around the world to science, math, engineering and technology.

"We feel strongly about the many opportunities that FIRST provides," said Curt M. Selquist, company group chairman with sponsor Johnson & Johnson. "The program builds enthusiasm for the creative engineering process, motivating young people at an ideal time in their educational careers."

[Don Vito]

I have to disagree with this one, and try not to be biased by the fact that I am on a team in the losing alliance.

I have video of the robot performing superbly (knocking off a tetra in autonomous, and playing defense to team on their side and the other side of the field, and everything) until 23 seconds remaining in the match (as called plain as day by the announcer) when they smashed into the center goal.

Now, unless they are really fast and that was a really hard knock into the center goal and the vibration from that carried all the way over to the field controllers and dislodged a wire to make it a communications error, then I would have to say that this call was one of the worst ones my team has ever had to be a recipient of and it basically cost us the regional. :(
I think it was a hard hit to their end of the bot thus being their problem, not a field problem that requires a rematch.
Did I mention that the other 2 robots on that team were knocked over in the heat of the match. But the same thing happened to 2 of our robots in the next match which was the rematch in question, so I won't go there.

Maybe that shock wave from that bot was what made someone call in the scare... They leave pretty big vibrations when things like that happen right? :rolleyes:

Try not to be biased because our team was the winner, but wasn't the problem that 375 was disabled by the judges on ACCIDENT when they were slammed into the center goal? That's what I thought I heard, but I could be mistaken about that. 303, 56, and 237 though, wow, you guys did fantastic. :)

The bomb scare comment doesn't really make sense though.

[Spikey]

Here is something I noticed during the last day of competition, quiet a few robots were pushed over, now some were legally pushed over, they were hit low and did not properly react, however the refs were not properly calling the pushing rule.
One team who will go unnamed, used their arm to tomahawk our arm when we were putting a tetra onto the center goal, they hit our arm several times and tipped us back onto two wheels. After the match I talked to the ref and he said it was "good defense" which is plainly stated as the opposite in the official FIRST rules. Later in the playoffs I saw several robots being pushed over by arms hitting high, the refs really need to pay attention and call that penalty.

I was disappointed because no one picked us despite being in the top 15 during the entire two days of competition, and of course the worst part was having to stand their on the sidelines as a standby robot hoping for someone to break so we could aid an alliance. We had some bad luck with alliance pairings and did pretty decently considering we were often paired with robots who could not drive or cap, or even show up for a match, we got pretty used to playing solo or in 2v3 situations.

Thanks to Team 272 for giving us an award for "saving their bot" we are going to find a nice home for your sword, hopefully next time you can pick us as an alliance partner;)

[Conor Ryan]

oh I had one beef with the judging, just one, and it doesn't matter really anymore.

In match Q32 with 1403, 1382, 1144 (red alliance) against 637, 237, 1617(blue alliance). you know the 10 point bonus for being behind the line. well at the end, The red alliance was all behind the line, and had video footage to prove it and such, however that wasn't counted, in the final scoring. The score ended up being 25-19 with blue winning, but it doesn't matter whats over is over. thats all.

however i think it maybe an idea to add a section in the rules next year about reviewing judged calls, as long as their is offical footage proving if something happened or not.

but it doesn't matter, whats done is done, and we're almost all volunteers

[Elgin Clock]

Try not to be biased because our team was the winner, but wasn't the problem that 375 was disabled by the judges on ACCIDENT when they were slammed into the center goal? That's what I thought I heard, but I could be mistaken about that. 303, 56, and 237 though, wow, you guys did fantastic. :)
First off, thank you for the kind words.. :)

Second, I heard that it was a field communications error and if I have the call on video, I shall transpose word for word as to what the official call was, and post it here just so that we are all on the same page.

[George A.]

I was the one who announced the call that there was a communication error. I was just saying what the head ref (John) and the feild technical director told me. They informed me that one of the teams on the blue allaince was having problems communicating with their robot throughout the match. Sometimes it would respond and other times nothing. So the refs met with each other and made the call. I'm not saying whether or not they made the right one. All I can say is that they made the decision that they thought was best. To play "devils advocate" if I may. We were having difficulties with the blue side of the field all regional. So that may have been the that they called it the way they did. I know there isn't much I can say to take away the pain of defeat but let me reassure all of you that the refs did what they thought was the best and most gracious thing to do in the situation.

[George A.]

On another note, I'm looking for footage of the awards ceremony from saturday and the elimination matches. ANYONE with such footage, please contact me and we'll discuss the best way to get the footage to me. I'd appreciate all help I can get on this. THANKS

[Corey Balint]

I really am not one for whining or moaning or complaining about calls in general, however this has really gotten to me. If you feel this deserves negative repuation, so be it, it has to get off my chest. I am only an outside observer, but actions like this, should be pointed out.

The reffing at New Jersey was horrendous. Many of the decisions made by the refs directly contradicted what was told to the drivers in the drivers meeting. One major point was the clock and music for the autonomous mode being off a second or two. Drivers were told when the clock turns to 120 to step to the controls and start to drive, and to ignore the music. However, Refs were constantly throwing flags for crossing the line "before the music sounded"...I know for a fact this happened to numerous teams and reversed numerous outcomes to matches. I am too tired/upset to think of more, but i really feel this was horrible.

Then Finals came around...what happened there... They replayed a match that was the cleanest of all the Finals. Every match before and after had more robots on the ground broken. I echo all that Elgin has said. This call was probably the biggest mistake that could be made, and DEFINITELY reversed the outcome of the champions.

I have nothing personally against anyone involved. This has just really upset me, to see three teams who truly deserved a win and two that would have gone to Nationals, get thrown out because of a bad call.

I know nothing will change the outcome, but i feel that this tragedy should not go unnoticed. Sorry if this hurts anyones feelings or anything, but i really needed to get this off my chest, anyone that knows me saw how much this has torn me apart the past 29 hours. I have been in a constant state of unrest. Yes i know this is only a game, but people who have dedicated months of their young/or any age lives to building a robot that can truly perform are being hurt. Many teams did not have the privilege to sign up for nationals without first seing what their robot could do. They may not have had the money from themselves or sponsors or for whatever reason. But events like this are just disheartening.

And i also know they are only volunteers, but still, kids or mentors who know the rules can do this job better. Humans will make mistakes too, but still this really was too big to overlook. And yes they are volunteers, but why volunteer if you dont really want to learn the rules and make sure the best teams win.

If this comes out as broken english, I'm sorry, I cannot think straight.

[Bluesky55J]

well, i was feild control/ score keeper at the regional. i job shared and watched after by 2 other people. (Walt, Josh) During that replayed match in the finals no robot was dissabled at all. infact there was a question afterword that if the robot had been having any problems whether we should have dissabled it. the refs infact never came to me to say anyone needed to be shut down. And from my end i did not even think that there where any problems with the match because i did not notice on my screen any flicering communications. its not till the IFI guy came over to me and asked if i had seen anything that i new anything went wrong. now the refs also never talked to me after the match they where talking with Walt so i dont know anything more about the call.

Next year, and or next week since im going to philli, i hope they get all the bugs worked out of the FIRST system. Scoring was hell, and real time scoring had so many problems it hardly worked.

But congrats to all the teams that won, and even to the ones who didnt. up until quarter finals we really didnt have many problems.

George again great job! you where awsome! thank god i didnt have to fill in for you that one match! i would have needed to get out the mittens!!!

[coldfusion1279]

Here is something I noticed during the last day of competition, quiet a few robots were pushed over, now some were legally pushed over, they were hit low and did not properly react, however the refs were not properly calling the pushing rule.
One team who will go unnamed, used their arm to tomahawk our arm when we were putting a tetra onto the center goal, they hit our arm several times and tipped us back onto two wheels. After the match I talked to the ref and he said it was "good defense" which is plainly stated as the opposite in the official FIRST rules. Later in the playoffs I saw several robots being pushed over by arms hitting high, the refs really need to pay attention and call that penalty.

I was disappointed because no one picked us despite being in the top 15 during the entire two days of competition, and of course the worst part was having to stand their on the sidelines as a standby robot hoping for someone to break so we could aid an alliance. We had some bad luck with alliance pairings and did pretty decently considering we were often paired with robots who could not drive or cap, or even show up for a match, we got pretty used to playing solo or in 2v3 situations.

Thanks to Team 272 for giving us an award for "saving their bot" we are going to find a nice home for your sword, hopefully next time you can pick us as an alliance partner;)

I noticed the same thing. Even though we managed to win the regional our bot was beat up pretty badly. we were pulled over 2 times in a row by the same robot in our quarterfinal match by the same team! If we were pushed by the base of our robot and we were unstable i would have let it slide, buit one time the robot hooked the tetra we were holding 8 feet in the air and pulled us over. The other time our arms got tangled and, unfortunately after sotting on our back wheels for three seconds balanced, the other team pulled us right on our backs and didnt even try to let us right ourselves. I thought the refs could have done a better job with the pushing penalties, is this battle bots or first? I shouldnt complain too much tho because as the driver of 1279, i did do my fair share of pushing in the finals and accidentally pushed 56 and 237 over in the same match (they were a bit unbalanced and had a tetra in the air, i also pushed low). I felt bad about it though because I knew what it felt like to be non-operational for the remainder of a match and to watch your team lose.

In regards to the finals, excellent matches teams 56, 237 and 303. I have heard that they were some of the best matches at any regional yet. Thanks are in order to team 103 and 375. You guys really held your own out there. Also i would like to thank team 56, our mentors from our rookie year in 2004. We learned alot from some of you guys last year. It just proves what a great team you are. And team 303, our neighbors, right across the highway BR- excellent job, another successful bot from the panthers. 237 what can i say except you were so reliable and consistent- the only team to cap the vision tetra in autonomous i believe. Excellent work.

-Mike
co-capt/driver of team 1279 cold fusion robotics

[Bharat Nain]

I really am not one for whining or moaning or complaining about calls in general, however this has really gotten to me. If you feel this deserves negative repuation, so be it, it has to get off my chest. I am only an outside observer, but actions like this, should be pointed out.

The reffing at New Jersey was horrendous. Many of the decisions made by the refs directly contradicted what was told to the drivers in the drivers meeting. One major point was the clock and music for the autonomous mode being off a second or two. Drivers were told when the clock turns to 120 to step to the controls and start to drive, and to ignore the music. However, Refs were constantly throwing flags for crossing the line "before the music sounded"...I know for a fact this happened to numerous teams and reversed numerous outcomes to matches. I am too tired/upset to think of more, but i really feel this was horrible.

Then Finals came around...what happened there... They replayed a match that was the cleanest of all the Finals. Every match before and after had more robots on the ground broken. I echo all that Elgin has said. This call was probably the biggest mistake that could be made, and DEFINITELY reversed the outcome of the champions.

I have nothing personally against anyone involved. This has just really upset me, to see three teams who truly deserved a win and two that would have gone to Nationals, get thrown out because of a bad call.

I know nothing will change the outcome, but i feel that this tragedy should not go unnoticed. Sorry if this hurts anyones feelings or anything, but i really needed to get this off my chest, anyone that knows me saw how much this has torn me apart the past 29 hours. I have been in a constant state of unrest. Yes i know this is only a game, but people who have dedicated months of their young/or any age lives to building a robot that can truly perform are being hurt. Many teams did not have the privilege to sign up for nationals without first seing what their robot could do. They may not have had the money from themselves or sponsors or for whatever reason. But events like this are just disheartening.

If this comes out as broken english, I'm sorry, I cannot think straight.
I'll second that. Some things definitely get you.. almost like you got shot up the butt. Very few of us know what some people[no names] are going through right now because of bad calls, bad judgment, politics etc..

This could've been better, way better.

Sorry, I could not resist posting away from the GP side. This hurt way too much.
-Bharat
p.s. no offense to any of the award winners

[Spikey]

The conditions on the field this year were not up to snuff compared to last year. We had a horrendous amount of problems with autonomous not starting at all because of the field, or losing control of our arm, or having autonomous finally start with only 5 seconds left. The IFI guy told us he had nothing to say about it, but obviously we were not the only ones negatively effected by field problems. The pressure pads were a problem as well and it took the officials half of the day to realize that Pad 2 on the red side was malfunctioning. During practice matches on thursday I was on Pad 2(as HP) and when I would step off the pad and be half way to the robot the robot would drive backwards! We alerted the field staff of this problem but it happened again in later matches and on Friday as well which resulted in a match having to be replayed! Both player stations were behaving very strangely and I hope we don't have the same field at Philly!

[George A.]

As one of the volunteers, I'd like to say this. Don't get offended I'm just stating what was going on from the other side of the field.

The refs, along with all the other volunteers, are just that VOLUNTEERS. They take time off of work and away from their families to make sure that the events are run as smoothly as possible. They aren't experts, and are human. They make mistakes just like everyone else.

I understand that you guys are upset, and you have every right to be.
You might not like the call but you have to respect them as a whole. I know it must be torture to ref 100+ matches. I wouldn't want to be in their shoes. I can only imagine what was going through their heads knowing that this call was going to effect the outcome of not only the match but also the regional.

You also may not have noticed it but the refs switched sides every match in the elims. For example in the first match refs 1,2,3 would be on red and 4,5,6 would be on blue. The second match 1,2,3 would be on blue and 4,5,6 would be on red. Then if a third match was needed the refs would mix it up. 1,3,6 on red and 2,4,5 on blue for example. This made it so there was a fresh set of eyes watching each robot each match.

So that's that. Let's just try to put this behind us and make the next four weeks the best ever.

[Mike Schroeder]

I will emphisise what The Voice of NJ just said, the refs are volunteers, and well they dont have to do what they have to do, you should all be lucky we are able to put on 30 regionals, because of the vounteer base we have

[Conor Ryan]

As one of the volunteers, I'd like to say this. Don't get offended I'm just stating what was going on from the other side of the field.

The refs, along with all the other volunteers, are just that VOLUNTEERS. They take time off of work and away from their families to make sure that the events are run as smoothly as possible. They aren't experts, and are human. They make mistakes just like everyone else.

I understand that you guys are upset, and you have every right to be.
You might not like the call but you have to respect them as a whole. I know it must be torture to ref 100+ matches. I wouldn't want to be in their shoes. I can only imagine what was going through their heads knowing that this call was going to effect the outcome of not only the match but also the regional.

You also may not have noticed it but the refs switched sides every match in the elims. For example in the first match refs 1,2,3 would be on red and 4,5,6 would be on blue. The second match 1,2,3 would be on blue and 4,5,6 would be on red. Then if a third match was needed the refs would mix it up. 1,3,6 on red and 2,4,5 on blue for example. This made it so there was a fresh set of eyes watching each robot each match.

So that's that. Let's just try to put this behind us and make the next four weeks the best ever.


he's right, they are only volunteers and they are trying the best and hardest they can, there were over 100 matches for 3 straight days, human error is going to come into play somewhere with that many matches. I salute any volunteers for helping out, there were some mistakes, but nobody's perfect, i was happy and i'll be happy to come back for more.

[Elgin Clock]

Hey Mike, or any other mod.

I would like to post the video of the match in question before this gets closed if that is where it is heading if that is ok.

If not.. whatever.

[Brandon Holley]

I will second what Corey and Bharat have said, the referees calls were very inconsistent. I do not want to get into all the details because most have been stated already, but it could have been a lot better.

And just a little side note to 1279, we were the alliance against you in the quarters, our partners were 1626, the team you were entangled with twice. No offense, but you guys were battling, they were not trying to knock you over, but just detangle themselves from you. They did their best to keep you from scoring, and it just ended that way. ( sorry if that sounds agressive, it isnt meant to be in anyway, it was a great quarterfinal )

[Mike8519]

I will be a Ref at philly next week and seeing this regional really gave me a lesson in what not to do and what to specifically address during our meeting together. I was a volunteer so I got to watch everything from the field level and just absorbed information. There were a lot of missed calls and such for pushing high, and the entire sound/timer thing should have been better handled. I spent four years on team 303 and two of those years as a driver. After going through numerous ref calls that I disagreed with, I decided to become a ref myself. Every year I studied the rules and made sure that if anyone had a question of legality involving the robot, I would know. At Philly I hope to make things a little more fair.


On a side-note about the field:

The fields electronics were COMPLETELY redone this year, new computers, new cabling systems, new scoring system, etc. Unfortunately, I don't think FIRST fully bug-tested the system, hence the problems. This is also why the FIRST website didn't get match information for the NJ regional, they couldn't sync up with FIRST at all to send the data. After the computers crashed during the first attempt at alliance pickings, all the QF match data was gone. As I was leaving one guy was sitting there re-entering every match from the score cards. Hopefully the coding issues will be sorted out by nats, hopefully earlier.

[Bluesky55J]

Thats deffinatly true poor john had to sit there and re-enter all the scores into the computers. 2 computers there as a back up and a main. he must have sat there forever. and thats saying if he even got the system to work. did anyone also notice that this year we were not working out of our huge computer desks, they where just little lap tops. everything was new and rewired.

[coldfusion1279]

I will second what Corey and Bharat have said, the referees calls were very inconsistent. I do not want to get into all the details because most have been stated already, but it could have been a lot better.

And just a little side note to 1279, we were the alliance against you in the quarters, our partners were 1626, the team you were entangled with twice. No offense, but you guys were battling, they were not trying to knock you over, but just detangle themselves from you. They did their best to keep you from scoring, and it just ended that way. ( sorry if that sounds agressive, it isnt meant to be in anyway, it was a great quarterfinal )

I totally understand that they were just playing defense, but twice in a row that somebody got tangled in our arm and pulled us over? i just thought maybe a penalty should have been called or at least the team should have been warned. Not to mention we were yet again pulled over by the arm later causing half of one of our arms to bend. I do agree, there were bad calls, but I expected it. Hopefully the last couple regionals will be made that much better because of it. It was a fun quarterfinal tho, very intense. Congrats to the other catholic school 1626- St. Joe's, you guys really amazed us here at Immaculata.

Also in reply to what 237 said. I know your alliance had nationals on the line, as did we, but I ill have to disagree with your calling that the cleanest game. I'm not trying to create any arguments, but two robots fell over and one wasnt responding to controls in the last minute... do you know what it feels like to watch none of your alliance robots work and the other team continue to pile on the points? i did accidentally knock two of your bots over in the very next round, and i really felt we should have returned the favor and redone that match as well. I am sure that if your robot wasnt responding correctly to the controls (due to field error, not human) throughout the match you would have been upset. Thats just my two cents tho, you guys did a great job. Oh and as a side note, i think the first game we played was the best one of the whole competition, red beat blue 39-38. that match was very clean and very fun.

[JasJ002]

Then Finals came around...what happened there... They replayed a match that was the cleanest of all the Finals. Every match before and after had more robots on the ground broken. I echo all that Elgin has said. This call was probably the biggest mistake that could be made, and DEFINITELY reversed the outcome of the champions.

I have nothing personally against anyone involved. This has just really upset me, to see three teams who truly deserved a win and two that would have gone to Nationals, get thrown out because of a bad call.


Ok in that quote you said that the match that was cancelled was the cleanest out of all of them. What match were you watching. Our alliance had two robots on their sides and one robot disabled before the match was even 3/4 of the way done. I understand that they all played by the rules but it definitely wasn't the cleanest match. You people talk about the championships like our alliance was supposed to get spanked by 56 and their alliance. In the one match that was 100% fare without anybody getting falling or becoming disabled, the match was decided by only one point. You talk about how three teams that deserve to win don't get to go this year, are you saying that our alliance doesn't deserve to go? Thats what it sounds like to me. We all worked hard and the cards just happened to fall in our favor I personally thought we were two evenly matched alliances and luck just happened to be on our side.

[Cory]

I will be a Ref at philly next week and seeing this regional really gave me a lesson in what not to do and what to specifically address during our meeting together. I was a volunteer so I got to watch everything from the field level and just absorbed information. There were a lot of missed calls and such for pushing high, and the entire sound/timer thing should have been better handled. I spent four years on team 303 and two of those years as a driver. After going through numerous ref calls that I disagreed with, I decided to become a ref myself. Every year I studied the rules and made sure that if anyone had a question of legality involving the robot, I would know. At Philly I hope to make things a little more fair.


On a side-note about the field:

The fields electronics were COMPLETELY redone this year, new computers, new cabling systems, new scoring system, etc. Unfortunately, I don't think FIRST fully bug-tested the system, hence the problems. This is also why the FIRST website didn't get match information for the NJ regional, they couldn't sync up with FIRST at all to send the data. After the computers crashed during the first attempt at alliance pickings, all the QF match data was gone. As I was leaving one guy was sitting there re-entering every match from the score cards. Hopefully the coding issues will be sorted out by nats, hopefully earlier.

Please, if you want to criticize referees, do it in private. These people take time out of their lives to come help you. They are human, they make bad calls, but it is not fair to come out and put blame on them for problems at the regional. Things like pushing high and causing a robot to tip are completely subjective. Some referees may know the rules well, but haven't seen a FIRST competition before to know what an acceptable level of rough play involves.

And also, FIRST told us last week they wouldn't be updating match results online due to unreliable results. Personally, I think the new setup is much cleaner than the old, and will be fine once the bugs are worked out.

[av11d]

Although I wasn't involved in any of the finals matches, I did witness all four from the stands. From what I saw, I have to completely agree with the decisions the referees made. I think they let the robots battle it out without putting any robots in direct harm of being severely destroyed.

After watching a few regionals on webcast in the weeks before NJ, I feel NJ was the best refereed regional. Their interpretation of the rules was excellent. This regional wasn't burdened by unnecessary penalties. I know in one of our quarter-final matches, a robot touched us while we were in the human loading zone. However, the refs did not count this as a penalty. I politely asked why, and they explained the our robot was in, but not 100% stopped so they didn't feel it was any threat having their robot touch ours. The opposing robot backed away immediately thereafter and no flag was thrown. Even though the penalty would have helped us, I think the refs made the right call. I suppose if they had followed the rules EXACTLY, it could have been a penalty... but they didn't feel the action merited a penalty. I tend to agree.

Just like any other sport, the finals are always the most physical/rough. It's over now.. so who from NJ is going to Atlanta?

[Conor Ryan]

I will be a Ref at philly next week and seeing this regional really gave me a lesson in what not to do and what to specifically address during our meeting together. I was a volunteer so I got to watch everything from the field level and just absorbed information. There were a lot of missed calls and such for pushing high, and the entire sound/timer thing should have been better handled. I spent four years on team 303 and two of those years as a driver. After going through numerous ref calls that I disagreed with, I decided to become a ref myself. Every year I studied the rules and made sure that if anyone had a question of legality involving the robot, I would know. At Philly I hope to make things a little more fair.



be consistent in what you plan to call for the violations at both Human and Automatic Loading stations. That was a bit of a problem at NJ

[Joe Matt]

Ok guys, calm down. I agree, bad calls suck, but venting on Chiefdelphi won't do us any good right now. Instead, take it to the offical FIRST meetings that will be held after Champs. I too think next year rules need to be enforced more, and rules should be final after ship, but there is nothing we can do now, only hope that FIRST and the refs realize what has happened and learn from it.

[Bharat Nain]

Ok guys, calm down. I agree, bad calls suck, but venting on Chiefdelphi won't do us any good right now. Instead, take it to the offical FIRST meetings that will be held after Champs. I too think next year rules need to be enforced more, and rules should be final after ship, but there is nothing we can do now, only hope that FIRST and the refs realize what has happened and learn from it. ..OR maybe some refs just dont make up rules and penalties themselves and give out penalties just because they feel like it or does not like the way a driver is standing in the driver station.

[jessjank.]

I feel terrible about some of the things that have been occurring and I really want to see everyone find some sort of balance. There were so many amazing teams competing at NJ and all teams should be congratulated for their outstanding efforts and successes because everyone was just that, successful. So many teams and their alliances were worthy of winning the event. NJ was perhaps one of the most competitive, aggressive, exciting competitions I have ever witnessed, despite many of the issues that have been noted. I cannot say that I was not terribly excited about winning, but I can recognize why many people are upset with the outcome. All the teams that we went up against throughout the finals were fantastic and deserving of the regional win. I can easily understand both sides of the situation and concur with many of the things said by both sides. Mistakes happen, unfortunately, and I feel very upset that people have been hurt by what transpired, but at this point in time the outcome cannot be altered. All the FIRST judges, referees, and volunteers, and all the teams as well, should be thanked for all their time and effort whether or not mistakes occurred. Everyone should be terribly proud of what they accomplished, because, sincerely, whether or not you were recognized with an award you have truly done great things.

[Elgin Clock]

Video..

And let's just make this a Y.M.T.C. scenario for laughs.

http://www.team237.com/videos/finals_nj.wmv
Warning - (19.8mb)


As you can see, the 375 robot hit the center goal as the announcer says 21 seconds remaining, and yet..
The blue light in their players station (far left blue side) is still activated in turn making it a team fault, and not making it a field error by any means.

This is why some people are very upset. So, try and be understanding and not just sweep this incident under the rug as a alliance of sore losers...

Thanks.

[BoyWithCape195]

Well first, 237's hit on 103 should have gotten them disqualified because they clearly hit 103 *very* high...

And they may have ran into the center goal due to the loss of control. Through out the day, they did not have that type of driving (turning and almost flipping, running into goals, and if you look, its almost a coast into the center goal, not a drive) Just my observations from actually being at the regional as well as watching that video.

[Elgin Clock]

Well first, 237's hit on 103 should have gotten them disqualified because they clearly hit 103 *very* high...Do you recall what happened in the next match? 2 of our alliances teams were tipped as well.. Video coming soon. (cause I knew someone was gonna comment on that)

And they may have ran into the center goal due to the loss of control. Through out the day, they did not have that type of driving (turning and almost flipping, running into goals, and if you look, its almost a coast into the center goal, not a drive) Just my observations from actually being at the regional as well as watching that video.Explain the blue light not flashing then in their alliance station?

[HellStorm303]

In reply to us not moving the last match. The release valve was left open and we were pretty much stuck in neutral. It sucks yes, nothing can change from it, and trust us, most of us on 303 feel terrible about it. All i can say is that, all who competed deserved to win, i give full congrats to the winning alliance.

[Brandon Holley]

Video..

And let's just make this a Y.M.T.C. scenario for laughs.

http://www.team237.com/videos/finals_nj.wmv
Warning - (19.8mb)


As you can see, the 375 robot hit the center goal as the announcer says 21 seconds remaining, and yet..
The blue light in their players station (far left blue side) is still activated in turn making it a team fault, and not making it a field error by any means.

This is why some people are very upset. So, try and be understanding and not just sweep this incident under the rug as a alliance of sore losers...

Thanks.


Indeed everything stated above is true...375 hits the center goal and stops moving...yet their light remains lit.

From this it would be assumed that this was a team fault, unless they were disabled for some reason that was not legit. It is a tough call to make.

[George A.]

Ok guys, this has gone on far enough. The moderators, were kind enough to open the forum back up to allow Elgin to post his video in the hopes that this would straighten things out. Bun instead it has just lead to more sqwabbling. This isn't what FIRST is all about. Why is it that when a robot breaks down in competition the other allaince will take their time out to give the broken robot a chance to get back in the thick of things without a second thought? But here we are just going around in circles and pointing fingers.

Last year at Palmetto the winning allaince team 11, 122, and 281 were faced with this decision. A robot of the other allaince needed repair and they took their time out, when the time out expired the robot was still not working so the other allaince took their time out to help out the broken allaince. Then when there was confusion about robot placement 11,281, and 122 were faced with the choice of either going 2 on 1 with the legal robot or, in the spirit of FIRST allow the "illegal robot" to compete. What happened? IN THE SPIRIT OF FIRST that allaince let the "illegal robot" to compete, knowing full well that their decision could cost them the regional.

HOW IS THIS ANY DIFFERENT THAN WHAT HAPPENED IN NJ? That allaince did what they did for the love of FIRST and they wanted to see the best match possible. If a robot said they were having communitcation errors, than that is FIRST's fault and they should be allowed to compete to the best of their abilities, the refs recognized this and made their call.

Let's let this be the end of this. Put this behind us and get on with our lives. No amount of finger pointing or name calling or any of that will reverse what has happened.

[The Lucas]

Explain the blue light not flashing then in their alliance station?

That is one indicator that they were not disabled. However, those lights are new and malfunction frequently. At Pitt, the red ones just stopped working on Sat.

From this it would be assumed that this was a team fault, unless they were disabled for some reason that was not legit.

The best indicator that they could not have been disabled is the blue LEDs on their bot were still flashing. The LEDs go solid when the bot is disabled (just watch 237's solid red LEDs while they are loading). However, the pattern of flashing seemed to change, it is hard to tell b/c the camera moves (makes it hard to focus on it and it lowers the encoding quality). This might indicate a loss of signal. The operators should notice a flashing No Data/Radio LED on the OI if that happened. It is always good to train your operators on the control systems so they can tell the electrical team what happened.

So in summary, they were not disabled, but they might have lost signal.

Hope this clears things up and cools down the arguement.

EDIT: Sorry I was posting when the announcement ^^ came out

[Meyerman]

That is one indicator that they were not disabled. However, those lights are new and malfunction frequently. At Pitt, the red ones just stopped working on Sat.



The best indicator that they could not have been disabled is the blue LEDs on their bot were still flashing. The LEDs go solid when the bot is disabled (just watch 237's solid red LEDs while they are loading). However, the pattern of flashing seemed to change, it is hard to tell b/c the camera moves (makes it hard to focus on it and it lowers the encoding quality). This might indicate a loss of signal. The operators should notice a flashing No Data/Radio LED on the OI if that happened. It is always good to train your operators on the control systems so they can tell the electrical team what happened.



So in summary, they were not disabled, but they might have lost signal.

Hope this clears things up and cools down the arguement.

EDIT: Sorry I was posting when the announcement ^^ came out



that is a good point never thought about the LED lights its hard to tell if the pattern changes, and i dont believe their was a problem with the lights at the operating station just the numbers when it came time for semi finals and finals kinda weird but we delt with that

[Don Vito]

We should really just stop arguing about how things went down. Bound Brook should know how thankful we are for all the help they've given us, especially last year when we got to use their practice field. The calls weren't ours to make, but the games were finished fairly, even though many robots, including our own, were tipped. That's just how the game goes.

I'm kind of worried that some are complaining that we didn't deserve to win, but my team mates put in so many hours building the robot every single night at our only mentor's house. We didn't have a single engineer and no real sponsorship. We raised all the money ourselves and the only help we got was from a student's father who took time off his construction business to encourage us.

After Trenton I was just so proud of all the teams, no matter if they came in last or anything, we all worked hard and everyone did fantastic. Anyone who attended Trenton, we can't wait to see you at Nationals if we can manage to raise the $5000 by then. We're running out of sources for sponsorship.

[Nitroxextreme]

we all can make remarks about bad reffing but in the end everyone got a fair share of both

however some of the finals were a little crazy
but i rather liked it that way

i mean sure we got hit really hard and it ended up making us unable to move our arm for the next 2 rounds
but that enabled us to experiment with the pushing capabilities of our robot

the refs did their best and everyone has a right to complain but that will do nothing to change what happened THEN

[Vin211]

Alright, as an old 237 member I do agree with what 237 claims. The alliance of 303, 56, and 237 are the winners of the New Jersey Regional of 2005. I have also seen the video which shows 237 clearly winning this competition. It seems the opposition had some mis fortune and I recommend looking into the FIRST Robotics Competition Manual for a ruling.

It is not fair to take away a win from those who deserve it. That call has nothing to do with gracious professionalism. That one small call cost 237, 56, and 303 a 1st place.

If 375, 1279, and 103 wants to be considered for gracious professionalism, they should give up the 1st place award and graciously take 2nd. My opinion!

[galewind]

If 375, 1279, and 103 wants to be considered for gracious professionalism, they should give up the 1st place award and graciously take 2nd. My opinion!

Unfortunately this is not their decision to make.

I'm rather disappointed myself at what happened during the competition. I certainly feel bad that it had to come down to this, and I feel bad for the teams that feel they were slighted because of bad calls. We know that these bad calls were made in abundance throughout the qualifying rounds, but to have it happen while everyone was watching in the finals really demonstrates why officials should be better trained before they are made in charge of such a task. I'm not saying that I don't value their work, I just think that some were ill-equipped for the jobs they were given.

What bothers me more, however, is that we're more concerned about winning the competition than we are about the FIRST experience as a whole. Sure, not having it happen to our team makes it a lot easier for me to say, but I know that our team was esctatic about the regional (minus the little outdoor excursion at the end) and all we walked away with was 25 bronze medals, a headful of ideas, and a renewed energy that will carry us to our next competition.

I'm not trying to say that you shouldn't be bitter about the outcome -- what I AM saying is that, in my own opinion, you will need to look beyond this before it becomes too destructive for you to take back.

[Don Vito]

Alright, as an old 237 member I do agree with what 237 claims. The alliance of 303, 56, and 237 are the winners of the New Jersey Regional of 2005. I have also seen the video which shows 237 clearly winning this competition. It seems the opposition had some mis fortune and I recommend looking into the FIRST Robotics Competition Manual for a ruling.

It is not fair to take away a win from those who deserve it. That call has nothing to do with gracious professionalism. That one small call cost 237, 56, and 303 a 1st place.

If 375, 1279, and 103 wants to be considered for gracious professionalism, they should give up the 1st place award and graciously take 2nd. My opinion!

That call has everything to do with gracious professionalism. In the second match which was redone, 1279 and 103 are on their back due to being flipped. 103 is hit high, as can be seen at 1:44, by 237 who drives over to it for that purpose. I'm sorry if I sound un GP, but how did our alliance not deserve the win? Two robots flipped and one disabled, and the match was supposedly clean? 103, 375, and ourselves worked very hard all season to get where we are, and then we go into a match where we're told we will lose, but don't, and now we're told we should lose anyway because what people expected and a call that's final and done with.

We have to stop arguing about what should have or will happen, and focus on something like the rest of the season. I know 56 is going to Philadelphia this weekend, so good luck to them and anyone else who is attending! I know they can do it.

[Vin211]

In my heart right now, are the true winners. Enough said. The answers lie with FIRST right now. 303, 56, and 237 are the champs! For words of wisdom, watch out for these guys in Atlanta.

[Jaine Perotti]

It is not fair to take away a win from those who deserve it. That call has nothing to do with gracious professionalism. That one small call cost 237, 56, and 303 a 1st place.

If 375, 1279, and 103 wants to be considered for gracious professionalism, they should give up the 1st place award and graciously take 2nd. My opinion!Ok, I really do not want to join in this fight, but I feel a responsibility now to throw in my two cents because this is starting to get out of hand.

One of the first things I learned when I joined robotics was that members of our team were to accept the outcomes of matches and the decisions of referees gracefully. It would not be acceptable for a team member to scream, blame, or otherwise hurt other people over a loss or a bad call. The aim of this expectation was not to tell people that it wasn't ok to be upset. Instead, this expectation was meant to prevent bad feelings from getting out of control and hurting people. With that said, I think that it is time for everyone to move on. Step back, take a deep breath, and remember that this is only a game. Do you want FIRSTers to be known as being no better than soccer moms screaming at the referees unnecessarily from the sidelines? Do we want to continue to be divided over "who should have won" and continue to hurt those who were involved?

We all experience big disappointments in life, and life is never totally fair. Same goes for what happens in FIRST. There is nothing we can do to change what happened, and I feel that pointing fingers and venting frustration is not helping ANYONE here. Sure it is ok to be upset after your team loses. Sure it is ok to be frustrated when a ref makes a mistake. But you know what...? It is NOT ok to post hurtful things in a public forum, where people from both sides - winning and losing - are able to read about what happened. It is extraordinarily upsetting, and it does nothing but fire up people's tempers. It does not help us to MOVE ON.

I don't want to pick on anyone in particular, but the post that I have quoted above really makes me feel upset. To tell teams that they are not "graciously professional" and that they should give up their win because of factors not even in their control is crossing the line for me. Again, I want to remind everyone that while it is disappointing, it is NOT OK to gripe over something as trivial as a regional win. Yes, you heard me - trivial. Step back for a moment, and think about what FIRST means to you. Is it really all about the "winning" and "losing"? If so, I think that you need to re-examine what the whole experience means to you. Because FIRST is not just a robotics competition, nor is it about "winning" and "losing"... the name of the organization speaks for itself. For Inspiration and Recognition of Science and Technology. Are we inspiring anyone here by saying hurtful things and arguing about something that we cannot change? No, we are discouraging. Are we spreading a good message about science and technology, or are we making people divide into factions... therefore retarding the promotion of science and technology to young people?

I apologize for this rant, but I felt that I needed to tell everyone to just CALM DOWN, take a deep breath, and move on. Reflect about the positive experiences that you have had this year, and focus on the good things that have happened. Think about your audience before you post. Put yourself in the shoes of the people involved. Whatever it takes for you to put this experience behind you - don't speak, write, or act in a way that will ruin the experience for other people, because FIRST is not about discouragement. Encourage and inspire, and you will be fulfilling the real intention of this competition.

I am done now,

-- Jaine

Oh, and if I were a mod, I think I would close this thread in a hurry, if things don't start to improve real fast.

[David Kelly]

Come on guys, lets cool it. If we don't chill out and stop insulting one another, I will close or ask another moderator to close this thread.

The ruling wont change, and the teams that won at the event, are considered the winners, forever.


FIRST is supposed to be fun, and about [I]nspiration of Science and Technology.

Cooler heads will always prevail...