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View Full Version : A new season, a new task


Koko Ed
11-29-2004, 07:50 PM
Fantasy FIRST was a big hit on the Chief Delphi board last season. So much so that besides getting it's own sub-category there was a group of us who got together during the summer and brain-stormed about how to make an interface possible for all FIRSTers to use. Unfortunately momentum has basically dried up and a couple of major driving forces behind the project have confessed to me that they just did not have the time and I'm sure the others are having similair problems. So I am calling out to the general CD community: anyone want to help out. The main designer Joel had an absolutely brilliant idea:

As per my promise in this thread, I have created this thread to present an outline of the FantasyFIRST system we have to date. The purpose of this thread is to see what omissions/additions we should make to this outline before we continue on. So if anyone sees anything missing, anything out of place, or whatever, go ahead and make it known.

Engines:
Powerlist generator

Support system
Basics:
Registration opens two weeks before kickoff
6 week registration window
Unlimited registered users
Of Interest:
Inclusion of a STAR team
Before a league member can participate in the first round of competition, they would have to choose a STAR team. That is, from the list of 1000+ teams that would be registered for the FIRST competition, a league member would select one team that would be "stuck" with them for the rest of the season. The league member would accrue any fantasy points this team generates in addition to points gained through regular competition play. Should a league member choose to enter their STAR team as a pick for a regional competition (more on this process later) and the STAR team generates points, that league member would receive double the points for that team. There would be a ten percent limit imposed on STAR teams, in that, a single team cannot be STAR to more than 10% of league participants. Once the ten percent limit has been reached, the STAR team in question would no longer be available for selection in the pre-round. Selection of a STAR team is final. A league member would not be able to change their decision. Again, until a league member has chosen their STAR team, they would not be allowed to compete in the actual Fantasy league.
Random pairing with foe to accrue win points
Before each regional competition begins (and after league members are no longer allowed to make selections for given regional), League members would be paired up with a randomly selected "foe." They would compete with each other for the equivalent of win credentials (Win [2] - Loss [0] - Tie [1]). The league member that earns the most points of the two foes is the winner. Should the two parties earn the same number of points, they get a tie. If any league member receives a total of 7 win points, they are automatically added to the waiting list for the playoffs (discussed later).
Rich Man's tax
A list of top 25 league members would be generated and each member on the list would be given a 4% "rich man's" tax. The total amount of points gained from these taxes would be distributed in randomly sized allotments to the bottom 25 league members.
User predictions:
three favorites for each first award
three favorites for number one seed
9 teams for quarterfinals
6 for semifinals
3 teams for finals
Point Distribution:
4 points for every correct award winner (excludes performance based awards, such as regional champion, regional finalist, etc).
32 points if the number one seed is among the three favorites.
2 points for every correct quarterfinalist.
8 points for every correct semifinalist.
32 points for every correct finalist.
128 points for selecting the correct regional winner.
2 * (playerQualificationPointsFromNumberOneSeedPredict ions/QualificationPointsGivenOutAtRegional) * 100
Waiting List:
Users ranked on waiting list according to the amount of win points they have earned
Playoffs:
50 teams, 25 additional from the waiting list
three member alliance + STAR team
Point Distribution:
4 points for every non-placement award won (Xerox Creativity, Motorola Quality, etc.)
32 points for being the number one seed.
2 points for making it to the division quarterfinals.
8 points for making it to the division semifinals.
32 points for making it to the division finals.
128 points for being division champion.
256 points for making it to the grand finals.
512 points for being national champion.
2 * (playerQualificationPointsFromAllianceRobots/QualificationPointsGivenOutAtChampionship) * 100
Shadow Playoffs:
All players not in official playoff
Multiple shadow playoffs with an equal distribution of players
Each shadow playoff has no more than 75 members
All details in "Playoffs" inherited
Draft:
maximum selection time of 2 minutes
Powerlist driven if user doesn't select in alloted time
first round pick position determined by user rank
second round pick position randomly determined
third round pick position determined by strength of user's alliance
Any ties broken by the system's randomizer
Trading:
5 trade maximum for each league member
trades have to be approved by a league commissioner
trades involve the exchange of one robot for another
Awards:
FIRST Fantasy League Playoff Champion
FIRST Fantasy League Playoff Top Ten
FIRST Fantasy League Wannabe Playoff Champion
FIRST Fantasy League Top Ten
Most Wins during pre playoffs (can be a "multi-way-tie")

If anyone else has a better idea feel free to submit it or if any of the orginal designers do have the time let me know as well. Otherwise we can just do it freehand like we did last season.

Corey Balint
11-29-2004, 09:25 PM
Ill be sure to help out in anyway i can. Im a fantasy and stats freak, all ive been doing this offseason is going on SOAP and looking at all the teams stats, and where problems may have occured and all(ya i get that bored). Im gonna take your list and make some minor changes or if needed a 2nd proposal.

Koko Ed
11-29-2004, 09:29 PM
Ill be sure to help out in anyway i can. Im a fantasy and stats freak, all ive been doing this offseason is going on SOAP and looking at all the teams stats, and where problems may have occured and all(ya i get that bored). Im gonna take your list and make some minor changes or if needed a 2nd proposal.
Thank you. I would greatly appreciate it.

Corey Balint
11-29-2004, 10:06 PM
Im only gonna post problems i see or things that should be clarified. Everything else is basically fine.

Draft:
maximum selection time of 2 minutes
Powerlist driven if user doesn't select in alloted time-unless previous arrangements have been made with someone of power.
first round pick position determined by user rank(?) just curious what you meant.

Trading:
No maximum trades-just as long as they dont get too out of hand.
trades have to be approved by a league commissioner-if it is say a first round robot for a third round robot-you should have a darn good reason for doing so.
trades involve the exchange of one robot for another-maybe some leeway, but this should be for like the hardcore statisticians :D

Inclusion of a STAR team(Remains same) however, How do we determine order? Upon registration or will this be a "draft" as well.

Before each regional competition begins (and after league members are no longer allowed to make selections for given regional), League members would be paired up with a randomly selected "foe." They would compete with each other for the equivalent of win credentials (Win [2] - Loss [0] - Tie [1]). The league member that earns the most points of the two foes is the winner. Should the two parties earn the same number of points, they get a tie. If any league member receives a total of 7 win points, they are automatically added to the waiting list for the playoffs (discussed later).
---Are we going to do new selections before every regional? Its kind of confusing to me, i may be reading it wrong though. Just the way its written seems that some players dont have teams in a regional. Seems like a stupid question but a lot of work. Maybe we have every user pick one regional that theyd like to do per week and do it that way.

Rich Mans Tax-how do we go about selecting who the top 25 is?

And with the team selections-the predictions does everyone do every regional or one regional or...?

Playoffs-Nationals do you mean?

Im kind of sketchy in my questions, but some others may have the same thing, i have ideas, i just wanna get what you think out there clearer first.

Koko Ed
11-29-2004, 10:28 PM
Let's see if I can answer a few of these...

Draft:
maximum selection time of 2 minutes
Powerlist driven if user doesn't select in alloted time-unless previous arrangements have been made with someone of power.
first round pick position determined by user rank(?) just curious what you meant.

That someone of power would be the league commisioner.

Trading:
No maximum trades-just as long as they dont get too out of hand.
trades have to be approved by a league commissioner-if it is say a first round robot for a third round robot-you should have a darn good reason for doing so.
trades involve the exchange of one robot for another-maybe some leeway, but this should be for like the hardcore statisticians :D

I an very adimant of strictly one for one trades. You get an allaince of three and a league should not be allowed to start until every team has an equal amount of teams.


Inclusion of a STAR team(Remains same) however, How do we determine order? Upon registration or will this be a "draft" as well.

Use a randomizer.

Before each regional competition begins (and after league members are no longer allowed to make selections for given regional), League members would be paired up with a randomly selected "foe." They would compete with each other for the equivalent of win credentials (Win [2] - Loss [0] - Tie [1]). The league member that earns the most points of the two foes is the winner. Should the two parties earn the same number of points, they get a tie. If any league member receives a total of 7 win points, they are automatically added to the waiting list for the playoffs (discussed later).
---Are we going to do new selections before every regional? Its kind of confusing to me, i may be reading it wrong though. Just the way its written seems that some players dont have teams in a regional. Seems like a stupid question but a lot of work. Maybe we have every user pick one regional that theyd like to do per week and do it that way.

I think Joel will have to answer this one. I was happy just having best overall record winning outright for the whole regional.

Rich Mans Tax-how do we go about selecting who the top 25 is?

uhhhh good question. I guess Joel will have to tackle that one as well.

And with the team selections-the predictions does everyone do every regional or one regional or...?

I think people should be able to select whichever regional they wish to partipate in individually. But I could see a season long league where competitiors pick a new alliance every week and every competition.
Playoffs-Nationals do you mean?
I beleive that's what he means.

Im kind of sketchy in my questions, but some others may have the same thing, i have ideas, i just wanna get what you think out there clearer first.
Hopefully I was a little help.

Corey Balint
11-29-2004, 10:34 PM
user rank for first round picks though? Not sure what you meant by that still.

And in case of any extra teams, will we have like a waiver period or something of the sort, just in case someone has an amazing bot out of no where.

And can you just go into a little more detail on getting into the playoffs?

Koko Ed
11-29-2004, 10:49 PM
user rank for first round picks though? Not sure what you meant by that still.
That one I'm not too sure about actually (especially if you use a rookie team that no one has ever seen before. How do you know their robot is any good?)

And in case of any extra teams, will we have like a waiver period or something of the sort, just in case someone has an amazing bot out of no where.

Yes, allaince can raid the waiver wire up until the competition begins.


And can you just go into a little more detail on getting into the playoffs?
Actually the only way the playoffs could work is if there is a season long pick em league where the cumalitive record over the whole season dtermines who qualifies or not. Otherwise anybody should be able to do the championship (the more the merrier).

BTW did you do Fantasy FIRST last year?

Alex Cormier
11-29-2004, 10:52 PM
hey you know i was there for ya last year and I'm hear for ya again this year. sounds great this year very amazed on what this has come to! great to see ya do something very exciting again koko!

Corey Balint
11-29-2004, 10:55 PM
I only got to do some offseason, never joined CD till after Nationals. Like i said though, im a stats freak, and its a good way to get a fill of fun with only the tail ends of fantasy hockey(i wish) and basketball still left.

And i think we could do separate regionals, and if theres enough interest a year long event, have to work out some details on it though.

Koko Ed
11-29-2004, 11:01 PM
I only got to do some offseason, never joined CD till after Nationals.

And i think we could do separate regionals, and if theres enough interest a year long event, have to work out some details on it though.
What I'm hoping for is that people can have enough where whithal to do their own leagues. I don't want to lord over everybodys leaugues. I don't have that kind of time. But it would be nice to have a Fantasy FIRST site like Yahoo's fantasy sports sites are.

Corey Balint
11-29-2004, 11:05 PM
Well if its volunteers, ill head-up NJ, SC, and help out with a season long league(if there is interest).

Koko Ed
11-29-2004, 11:10 PM
Well if its volunteers, ill head-up NJ, SC, and help out with a season long league(if there is interest).
It would have been easier with a website but I guess we'll have to do it the same way we did last year and do it freehand. No biggie really.

Joel J
11-29-2004, 11:51 PM
The original post in the suggestions thread is located here: http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/showpost.php?p=251252&postcount=28

Before each regional competition begins (and after league members are no longer allowed to make selections for given regional), League members would be paired up with a randomly selected "foe." They would compete with each other for the equivalent of win credentials (Win [2] - Loss [0] - Tie [1]). The league member that earns the most points of the two foes is the winner. Should the two parties earn the same number of points, they get a tie. If any league member receives a total of 7 win points, they are automatically added to the waiting list for the playoffs (discussed later).
---Are we going to do new selections before every regional? Its kind of confusing to me, i may be reading it wrong though. Just the way its written seems that some players dont have teams in a regional. Seems like a stupid question but a lot of work. Maybe we have every user pick one regional that theyd like to do per week and do it that way.Yes, you select a different set of teams for each regional event:

League members would be provided with a list of regional events and the teams scheduled to attend. In addition, league members would be provided with a list of FIRST awards to be given out. Based on this information, league members would choose 3 favorites for each first award, 3 favorites for number one seed, 9 teams they think would make it to the quarterfinals, 6 teams they think would make it to the semifinals, 3 teams they think would make it to the finals, and one team they think would win the competition. A ten percent limit would be imposed upon this selection process as well. Once a team is chosen by ten percent of league members for a specific award, they would no longer be available for selection.

Points would be awarded to league members in the following way:
4 points for every correct award winner (excludes performance based awards, such as regional champion, regional finalist, etc).
32 points if the number one seed is among the three favorites.
2 points for every correct quarterfinalist.
8 points for every correct semifinalist.
32 points for every correct finalist.
128 points for selecting the correct regional winner.

Remember, the STAR team would be an automatic additional entry into every category for any regional they attend.

Rich Mans Tax-how do we go about selecting who the top 25 is?After every week of regionals, just sum up the cumulative number of points earned by each participant in the league. When I was thinking about the system, I had the original Ventures in mind, so I was just expecting every league participant to participate in every regional, but you are all more than welcome to reason out that detail. But remember, if participants have the option of selecting the number of regionals they wish to select an alliance for, then their cumulative score would have to be normalized in some weighted fashion (ie. it would be unfair for someone to participate in only one regional and for that reason have an average score that is higher than others who have performed consistently well, but over more regionals). Have fun.

JVN
11-30-2004, 10:59 AM
How many leagues are you thinking of running?
Again... I'm of the opinion that less people in a league = more fun.


I'm also still unclear on the playoffs.
Do only the "elite" get to pick teams for nationals?

I like a lot of the rules/scoring you guys have set out. I think it will make for an interesting and fun competition. However, I'm still hazy on a few details.

Ed/Joel--
Can you please post a timeline of events (or something like that)?
I'd like more information on how the season will "flow".

Will there be FF for every regional, or only certain ones?

This sounds like a HUUUUGE undertaking, but I think it will be AWESOME in the end. Do you guys have the back end taken care of? I know you have FIRST's best webmaster and strategist working on it. What else do you need?

I think the entire community wants to see this thing take off.
How can we help?

JV

Joel J
11-30-2004, 11:14 AM
How many leagues are you thinking of running?
Again... I'm of the opinion that less people in a league = more fun.


I'm also still unclear on the playoffs.
Do only the "elite" get to pick teams for nationals?

I like a lot of the rules/scoring you guys have set out. I think it will make for an interesting and fun competition. However, I'm still hazy on a few details.

Ed/Joel--
Can you please post a timeline of events (or something like that)?
I'd like more information on how the season will "flow".

Will there be FF for every regional, or only certain ones?

This sounds like a HUUUUGE undertaking, but I think it will be AWESOME in the end. Do you guys have the back end taken care of? I know you have FIRST's best webmaster and strategist working on it. What else do you need?

I think the entire community wants to see this thing take off.
How can we help?

JV
Well. In the initial post (http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/showpost.php?p=251252&postcount=28) I made (the one I linked to in my response above), I set out a possible timeline of events, who gets to pick in the actual playoffs, etc. As for the backend, I broke down and admitted that I didn't have time to do it anymore. So, it'll only happen if some other programmers pick up the torch and carry it (which is really what I wanted in the first place, but thats an entirely different story).

JVN
11-30-2004, 11:31 AM
Well. In the initial post (http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/showpost.php?p=251252&postcount=28)...
Okay, I see now.
Sorry. Looks good.

Koko Ed
11-30-2004, 06:11 PM
How many leagues are you thinking of running?
Again... I'm of the opinion that less people in a league = more fun.


I'm also still unclear on the playoffs.
Do only the "elite" get to pick teams for nationals?

I like a lot of the rules/scoring you guys have set out. I think it will make for an interesting and fun competition. However, I'm still hazy on a few details.

Ed/Joel--
Can you please post a timeline of events (or something like that)?
I'd like more information on how the season will "flow".

Will there be FF for every regional, or only certain ones?

This sounds like a HUUUUGE undertaking, but I think it will be AWESOME in the end. Do you guys have the back end taken care of? I know you have FIRST's best webmaster and strategist working on it. What else do you need?

I think the entire community wants to see this thing take off.
How can we help?

JV
I would rather have it where people can run thier own leagues (and not even of Chief Delphi if so possible. Heck they can run a league within their own team) without mine or anyone else's assistance. Just like Fantasy sports are run on Yahoo. I wanted very user friendly system that had a basic set of rules that allowed people to taylor the leagues to suit themselves and thier needs. But I certainly did not want to run all the leagues. That is too much work even for the most intense FIRST-a-holic.

Levin571
12-10-2004, 03:14 PM
I'de be willing to help out with running a league for next year, it would help alleviate all the chaos of last year

Joshua May
12-19-2004, 01:21 PM
Sorry I found this thread a little bit late, but I'd like to help out again as much as I can. Managing, statistics, whatever, I'll help out the best I can.