Buying Land on the Moon

[Ryan Albright]

http://www.LunarLandOwner.com

My best friend and I were online last night looking for gifts to buy for our roomates and friends for christmas. We came acroos lunarlandowner.com and we looked around their website for a little. Now they are offering one acre of land on the moon for $29.95. Supposedly when you buy it you get a deed and everything. Now i was kind of curious so if we own that piece of land on the moon, and in the future if we ever let tourist to the moon or ever live on the moon wont that acre of land sky rocket? Now my question is what is the legality of selling property on the moon? Can someone actually do that? Can i acutally own a acre of the moon or is this total BS.?

What are your thoughts?
Dave any thoughts? ;)

[Max Lobovsky]

That is obviously a joke, but that would make a kind of funny gift. (Maybe not $30 funny...)

[Ryan Albright]

That is obviously a joke, but that would make a kind of funny gift. (Maybe not $30 funny...)
Let me add to my post i am not thinking about buying it, just curious. Thats why i brought it before you guys the CD community

[Kyle Love]

FINALLY we know what to buy for someone who has everything! haha :]

[shyra1353]

What if they oversell the space of the moon? Or an acre that you buy is unusable for whatever reason? Is an acre in the centre of a crater worth more than an acre not there? What about the part where Neil Armstrong first stepped on? Is that section worth more than others? Can you pick your acre on the moon?

[tkwetzel]

From www.lunarlandowner.com:

Each package contains the deed for one acre of land and it lists the actual location of the property by quadrant, latitude and longitude. A lunar map accompanies this, marked with an X showing the location of the property. This American company’s spacecraft is very first COMMERCIAL mission to the Moon.

It states that they give you a specific spot and they also say elsewhere on the site that they are the only company that can legally sell land on the moon. Kind of sketchy, but not sure if it is a joke or not.

[Cory]

It has to be a joke... Nobody owns the moon, or space, so nobody can sell land on the moon.

It's like those "Buy a Star" things.

[Jeff Rodriguez]

I'd rather buy some land on Mars. Can you help us out Dave? :D

[Matt Leese]

I wouldn't call it a joke, it's more of a novelty.

In general, no one owns the moon. Hence, no one can sell the moon. While some companies have made claims to the moon, legally, they have little ground to stand on. So if you like the novelty idea of it, go for it. It's rather similiar to the idea that you can buy the name of a star.

Matt

[EddieMcD]

Sure, you could buy a piece of the moon, and it'd be legally yours... at least until someone actually lands in your spot and sets up shop. It worked the exact same way back in the late 16th-early 18th centuries with land in North America (and again in the 19th century when the US was in its expansion era). A person could easily buy a large amount of land on the Ohio River, but unless they could back it up, their deed was worth about as much as the paper it was written on.

Long story short: if you buy a piece of the moon, be prepared to build your own rocket to get there and back it up. :D Reminds me of a friend who had three Plutos FedEx'd to him overnight...

[Ted Boucher]

I'd rather buy some land on Mars. :D

You can..... http://www.marsshop.com/

Also Venus ...... http://www.venusshop.com/

[tkwetzel]

More info from the lunar land owner site:

The UN Outer Space Treaty of 1967 stipulated that no government could own extraterrestrial property. However, it neglected to mention individuals and corporations. Therefore, under laws dating back from early US settlers, it is possible to stake a claim for land that has been surveyed and register it with the US Government Office of Claim Registries. In 1980, that is exactly what Dennis Hope did for land on the Moon as he established the Lunar Embassy to parcel and sell documented acres. The Lunar Embassy was obligated to inform the General Assembly of the United Nations, the US Government, and the Russian Government in writing of the claim and legal intent to sell extraterrestrial properties. These governing bodies had several years in which to contest the claim and they never did. This allowed Mr. Hope to take the next step and copyright his work with the US Copyright Registry Office and begin selling actual deeds for the land on the Moon. Probably the biggest support of Mr. Hope's claim has been in the form of actual Lunar land owners such as two former US presidents, NASA employees and many well known celebrities.

If you look around the site, there is a lot of information.

[Wetzel]

The site also claims more than 300 million acres sold. At $30 an acre, that is more than $9 billion dollars.

Wish I had figured that out. :rolleyes:


Wetzel

[SlamminSammy]

I wrote to Mr. Hope a while ago questioning the legality of his claims and this was his reply:

Dear Sam: Greetings from the Galactic Government and the Lunar Embassy. Thanks for the email and the interest in what we are doing. I will try to explain this in a short note. You are right. I took advantage of a loophole in the 1967 Outer Space Treaty from the United Nations. According to their language in the treaty, "No nation shall have sovereignty or control over any of the satellite bodies," pretty much sums it up. If no nations have sovereignty or control they do not have the right to grant me permission to do this. The actually do not have the right to say yes or no. After 21 years of selling these properties to more than 1,090,000 persons in 176 countries I can tell you that it has been and continues to be a wonderful journey. We are compliant with all laws reflecting what we do. We actually got concerned enough about the laws here that we formed the Galactic Government in July 2001, so that we could take charge of our own destiny without intervention from any of the governments on this planet. We are like any other growing company on Earth the only real difference is that properties we sell are not located here. I hope this helps. If not, please feel free to contact me by phone anytime.... With warm regards from the Galactic Government and the Lunar Embassy Dennis M. Hope CEO/President - Galactic Government AKA: "The Head Cheese" .

Well, as long as the 'Galactic Government' says it's ok....

[Ryan Albright]

hmm we all seemed spread on the descion, we need to call on a higher authority.....

*Paging Dave Lavery, Paging Dave Lavery, please report to this thread*

[Kyle Love]

The site also claims more than 300 million acres sold. At $30 an acre, that is more than $9 billion dollars.

Wish I had figured that out. :rolleyes:


Wetzel

SHYSA! that's a lot of money....how can they really "claim ownership" of the moon though, seriously. I say we discover a new planet, call it FIRST, and sell land on it for 30 bucks and split the money between all the active teams! That would be one good way to keep teams!! haha

-Kyle

*500th post*

[tkwetzel]

They are planning on "a moon trip":

The Lunar Embassy's FIRST SPACECRAFT PROJECT is happening in 2004. Lunar spacecraft will transport our Official Lunar property Registry to the lunar surface for storage.

Looks like they might be using some of that fortune on that.

[Ryan Albright]

They are planning on "a moon trip":



Looks like they might be using some of that fortune on that.
mmm i am wandering if they are still planning on 2004 because they dont have much time left

[dlavery]

- PAH!! - Who needs stinkin' little ol' piece of moon dirt? I would much rather get a whole star (http://www.starregistry.com/)!!!**

But in the mean time, let's analyze this. So Dennis Hope found a loophole that (so he claims) allows him to sell lots on the moon. At the same time, the very same UN Outer Space Treaty that provides the loophole also states that the moon and other celestial bodies are not, and can not be, owned by any (terrestrial) government. But what happens if someone else comes along and starts to sell lunar land plots as well - perhaps even the very same ones that Mr. Hope has already "sold"???

If that happened here, Mr. Hope would take you to court and present his title to the land and challenge your right to resell the title without ownership. But in the case of a lunar land rights dispute, no U.S. (or any other terrestrial) court has jurisdiction, due to the very same UN Outer Space Treaty. And there is no recognized Lunar Government with authority or jurisdiction either. Thus, there is no way for Mr. Hope to appeal to any recognized authority to prevent anyone else from laying claim to and selling "his" moon property.

So what we have here is a business model that, according to Mr. Hope, has resulted in over 2,000,000 sales at $29.00 each, or gross proceeds of >$58,000,000. Combine that with the lack of any government with jurisdiction over lunar land disputes, and the inability of Mr. Hope to prevent the formation of similar companies. To me, it sounds like the result is a great opportunity for a start-up business! Anyone interested in opening up a "Lunar Real Estate Office" ???

(note to self: copy this one over to the "Fundraising" thread! :D )

-dave

** actually, I did this several many years ago for my wife for her birthday. It was a lot of fun, and you do get a nice certificate out of the deal (even if it has no real legitimacy with the formal star naming process (http://www.iau.org/IAU/FAQ/starnames.html) that is managed by the International Astronomical Union (http://www.iau.org/)).

[Joshua May]

It's like those "Buy a Star" things.

My parents actually bought a start for me when I was born. I've got the charts and papers and everything in a packet in the downstairs closet somewhere. I plan to set up shop there someday. ;)

[MissInformation]

This means that the next time I demand... er... ask for the moon and the stars, there's no reason I should not receive it!

I wonder what other intangible gifts there are out there... I've heard there's some prime real estate in Hades, and they'll throw in a free hand basket to get you there...

Heidi

[KarenH]

As I recall, when our American astronauts landed on the moon, they left a U.S. flag there. That used to mean that a country was claiming the land; symbolically, it seems to me to imply the same thing these days, too. So is someone telling me the U.S. doesn't own the moon? Who says? Who does the U.N. think it is, anyway, and whoever does what it says? And who gave the U.N. authority to do anything? ;)

[Adam Y.]

As I recall, when our American astronauts landed on the moon, they left a U.S. flag there. That used to mean that a country was claiming the land; symbolically, it seems to me to imply the same thing these days, too. So is someone telling me the U.S. doesn't own the moon? Who says? Who does the U.N. think it is, anyway, and whoever does what it says? And who gave the U.N. authority to do anything?
Actually it's a treaty and a treaty implies that all the countries actcually agreed to this. Also, buying land on the moons is just as valid as claiming the sun and charging everyone for sunlight. Of course someone has actually done this. :ahh: Not to mention he isn't even the first crackpot that claimed he owned the moon.
Pop further contends that Dennis Hope's quest, which began in 1980, came too late. "A lunar claim was lodged in Chile back in 1953," Pop says, "and a Declaration of Lunar Ownership was issued by the city of Geneva, Ohio, back in 1966."
Elsewhere in the FAQ, and on the printed deed a customer receives, Lunar Embassy employs the word "novel" to describe its products. The word was suggest by lawyers 24 years ago, according to the FAQ, to "help avoid any frivolous lawsuits from a foreign country."

(The words "novel" and "novelty" are employed by star-naming businesses as a way to avoid the impression that their sales involve official products.)

Space article (http://www.space.com/scienceastronomy/mystery_monday_040202.html)

[Mike]

And who gave the U.N. authority to do anything? ;)
Reminds me of that Chappelle Show

"Come on UN, stop me! Stop me with your great army!"
or something like that

[7wizted_rea1ity]

Wow, land on the moon's actually been sold? That...worries me. When (or if) people start moving there, does that mean every night I'll see tiny establishments when looking up at the silver pearl reigning the night sky? In my opinion, the moon's not going to be so mysterious anymore if so. (Great, I need a new subject for poetry.) v.v

My first thought when I heard that was how greedy people are getting, selling things that aren't exactly tangible.... But I suppose that's not quite right and I guess one day the human race might expand there. Just my opinion, nothing more.

[RudimentaryPeni]

I hope this is a joke, because how is it someones to sell. Who owns the moon, no one. And it isnt anyones to claim they own, i guess the idea of imperialism is now going out of this world.

[Wetzel]

I hope this is a joke, because how is it someones to sell. Who owns the moon, no one. And it isnt anyones to claim they own, i guess the idea of imperialism is now going out of this world.

Not imperialism, imperialism is extending a nations control by territory grab(or economic domination). They arn't doing it for god or contry, but for money.

After all, There's a sucker born every minute.


Wetzel

[Jay H 237]

I wonder if they're also going to try to sell the Brooklyn Bridge? :p

[sammy]

I hope this is a joke, because how is it someones to sell. Who owns the moon, no one. And it isnt anyones to claim they own, i guess the idea of imperialism is now going out of this world.

It's funny, because at one point, people believed that you couldn't own the earth either. Interesting, eh? There are still people that believe that the earth cannot be bought or sold because humans did not make the earth and have no right to rule it. But they have, and what's to stop them (us) from ruling the solar system too?

Sam

[dlavery]

I wonder if they're also going to try to sell the Brooklyn Bridge? :p

They can't. I already bought it. :D

-dave

[Elgin Clock]

I wonder if they're also going to try to sell the Brooklyn Bridge? :pThey can't. I already bought it. :D

-daveFor use as a field object in the 2005 game?? :rolleyes:
Or for a parking garage for the Rovers when they come back home??
edit - Dave, are they coming back to earth?