No official FIRST game hint yet??

[Elgin Clock]

No 70's song lyrics yet???

No math formula's yet???


What's up with that????


When is the official game hint going to be given out this year??
Or is there even going to be one??

[Jessica Boucher]

Didn't you hear? After 2004, they aren't having a new game anymore. (http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/showpost.php?p=243928&postcount=17) ;)

[Corey Balint]

I've searched through all lavery's recent posts and nothing comes to mind...the only trend is that he has been using links alot lately, although that could just be to due to offseason boredom. Maybe the game has something to do with linking the robots to a part of the field, or to be more difficult, to each other? But past that, nothing really jumps out at me.

[Swampdude]

Yah, I've been wondering myself, although there was this (http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/showthread.php?t=30604) one. Maybe Dave's getting worried we're getting too good at deciphering his clues.
Personally last year, those clues had me thinking BIG stairs. The Vmax thing had me thinking we'd be shooting something up but had to control the speed. Then the stairway to heaven just verified that Dave was a hippy.
So now he's using philosophy related to dessert, and then left it at that.... I hope he's not going to turn FIRST into a donut eating contest :ahh:

[Joe Ross]

Back in the old days, we didn't have clues, and we liked it!

[JVN]

Back in the old days, we didn't have clues, and we liked it!
...and we pushed our robots uphill to the field. Both ways! And we didn't have any of those fancy motorized carts!

[Marc P.]

...and we pushed our robots uphill to the field. Both ways!

That was only 2 seasons ago in Texas :p


Maybe the hints are just so subtle they don't yet exist!

[Max Lobovsky]

here is some good reading on the topic: http://www.firstwiki.org/FIRST_Frenzy:_Undefined

[David Kelly]

...and we pushed our robots uphill to the field. Both ways! And we didn't have any of those fancy motorized carts!

Don't forget the time we had to do it in the snow too!!

[Steve W]

And in our bare feet!

[Mike Schroeder]

And in our bare feet!
there was an easy way to solve that just tie freshmen to your feet....

[Al Skierkiewicz]

Don't you remember when we didn't have a roof over our heads? Spectators, that is.



(First Years at Epcot)

[Jon K.]

Don't you remember when we didn't have a roof over our heads? Spectators, that is.



(First Years at Epcot)
Hey I loved the non-roof stadium at Epcot, it was nice to just go and sit in at times.

[sanddrag]

Another thing that has surprised me is that we haven't had one of those "inside info" rumor threads or "I saw a truck from this company that makes this product outside of FIRST Place" or "I was at Denny's and Dean and some guys were sketching on napkins and I was able to see..." threads.

I'm not saying we should start some but in previous years we have had those by now. So far this year, everyone has individual proposals of what they want the game to be like but we don't have one unified direction of what everyone thinks the game will entail.

[David V]

Actually, the hint has been their the whole time. There will be no competition this year. This is made apparent by the fact that the hint has been that there's no hint.

[dlavery]

If I were looking for a clue, I would be looking to John Neun. But that is just me.

-dave

Hey! that was my fourth post of the day! Woohoo!

[Jeff Rodriguez]

If I were looking for a clue, I would be looking to John Neun. But that is just me.

-dave

We have to build robots for a JVN a look alike contest this year?!
:ahh:

[Billfred]

If I were looking for a clue, I would be looking to John Neun. But that is just me.

-dave
You know, "Neun" sounds a lot like "Noon." And N is standard notation for north.

Perhaps FIRST is borrowing from OCCRA and is bringing in the arrow idea?

[Amanda Morrison]

He DIDN'T say John V-Neun. ;)

[Elgin Clock]

He DIDN'T say John V-Neun. ;)
Yup.. yet another example of an arrow shape! "V"
I think Billfred is onto something here. :yikes:

[Tytus Gerrish]

mabye were going to have to engineer a way to make the robots atonomusly stop the "I am John V. Neun" Craze

[Beth Sweet]

You know, when you google the name John Neun, the first website you end up with is one about a baseball player. I'd say this year's game has a baseballish theme. Sticking with the balls, but making them a bit smaller perhaps?

[JVN]

If I were looking for a clue, I would be looking to John Neun. But that is just me.

-dave
My father is the first game glue?
Somehow the secret to the new game lies with him?
My ENTIRE life has led up to this moment... Years of training pay off...

229 has (of course) already deciphered the full import of this seeming innocent clue, and have begun building our newest robot "the nooner". This robot is also known as "der neuner" (pronounced: noin-er) depending on who you talk to.

Good luck to all other 2005 participants,
John "the younger" Nooner

[Bharat Nain]

there was an easy way to solve that just tie freshmen to your feet.... So thats how you want us to treat your brother

[Wetzel]

Robots having to tag three of the other robots before they can reach base.

Looks like a good year for omniwheels and speed. :cool:


Wetzel

[Swampdude]

MMMmmyup, I got it.... Looking at John "the V" Neun's who am I image on his profile there - You will see him standing next to a "donut picker upper" (a particularly nice one). Folks, get your donut grabber hats on.... I knew it, Dave can't resist the draw of the donut. There's something about it's shape, and greasy sugariness. I understand Dave.
*off to DUNKIN DONUTS then to study this shape - definitely not KK*

[Mike Ciance]

I've searched through all lavery's recent posts and nothing comes to mind...the only trend is that he has been using links alot lately, although that could just be to due to offseason boredom. Maybe the game has something to do with linking the robots to a part of the field, or to be more difficult, to each other? But past that, nothing really jumps out at me.maybe the game includes some kind of chains (chain links).

maybe there will be some kind of connectable scoring object. say small boxes, each with a kind of connecting piece. push the boxes to snap them together. score in clusters as a multiplier.

maybe he is hinting at a Legend of Zelda-themed game...

[Stephen Kowski]

Never a regular, the speedy, slick-fielding Detroit first baseman entered the record books on May 31, 1927. With two Cleveland runners on, Neun nabbed Homer Summa's line drive and tagged Charlie Jamieson off first. Then, ignoring his shortstop's shouts to throw the ball, he dashed toward second and tagged the bag before Glenn Myatt could get back. Neun had executed the major leagues' seventh unassisted triple play. The sixth had been turned the day before, by Cubs shortstop Jimmy Cooney.

triple play?!? well also giving fuel to the fire here was Car Nack's prediction

Car Nack Predicts #1 for 2005

There will Not be alliances with three teams per alliance in 2005.

Car Nack has spoken

so the alliance structure is definitely changing....triple play?!? maybe 3 teams 1 v 1 v 1? maybe 3 on 3.....it has something to do with three i just know it :)

[Franchesca]

so the alliance structure is definitely changing....triple play?!? maybe 3 teams 1 v 1 v 1? maybe 3 on 3.....it has something to do with three i just know it :)

I agree, I think that the game this year maybe has something to do with 3 teams and also with maybe smaller balls (not particularly baseballs... but something of that size). These are rather interesting predictions but you can never know anything for sure ... is it time to know yet?? :ahh:

[Jaine Perotti]

You know, when you google the name John Neun, the first website you end up with is one about a baseball player. I'd say this year's game has a baseballish theme. Sticking with the balls, but making them a bit smaller perhaps?
Good observations. The use of baseballs might actually be plausible.

Baseball itself also has a lot of 3's in it:
There are three bases, not including home plate.
Three strikes, you're out!

Will there be a base system? Will there be 'strikes'?

[Tom Bottiglieri]

Good observations. The use of baseballs might actually be plausible.

Baseball itself also has a lot of 3's in it:
There are three bases, not including home plate.
Three strikes, you're out!

Will there be a base system? Will there be 'strikes'?

Car Nack's Prediction said there will be no more use of 3 teamed alliances... maybe this relates?

[JVN]

You guys do realize that, though the great and powerful Carn Nack is almost always right... he hasn't actually seen the game yet.

So... his predictions aren't hints. Just predictions.

[Levin571]

maybe a triple loss elimination for the finals this year?
But notice he didn't use the "V"

[Stephen Kowski]

So... his predictions aren't hints. Just predictions.

true but his predictions are normal pretty accurate....

Car Nack Predicts
2.There will be a yellow(10 pt) ball in a goal in very few matches, less than 20 percent.

Car Nack has spoken

[n0cturnalxb]

Hey! that was my fourth post of the day! Woohoo!

Ooh.. edited, today.

He's trying to tell us something! Or is he?

-goes hunting-

[Jaine Perotti]

Ooh.. edited, today.

He's trying to tell us something! Or is he?

-goes hunting-It must have been something one of us said that made him change his post!!
OMG!!

*starts searching frantically for clues*

<edit>
I was just thinking about Car Nack's prediction that there wouldn't be three team alliances this year.
Maybe there will be 4 team alliances instead!</edit>

[Corey Balint]

Maybe him leaving out the V has something to do with the number 5, being that V is the roman numeral of 5. We were talking about 3, then he put 4th post, so maybe he is trying to lead us into the number 5. But what about it?

[Bcahn836]

when did the official game hint come out last year and in years past?

[RbtGal1351]

Maybe him leaving out the V has something to do with the number 5, being that V is the roman numeral of 5. We were talking about 3, then he put 4th post, so maybe he is trying to lead us into the number 5. But what about it?

well it couldn't be 5 teams per alliance. that'd be insane, NTM how many matches you'd hafta have then! or else how long they'd be, but in either case it'd be insane. they wouldnt do that to us would they?

so, on the note of 5's... 5 goals per alliance? 5 main things you hafta do to possibly win the match? an obstacle course with 5 things in it? 5 bars to hang from? 5 big balls that are somehow important...
*i could go on for as long as you'd like...
but i'll just you yall that to speculate off of for now. :cool:
hehe
~Stephanie

[Mike Schroeder]

well it couldn't be 5 teams per alliance. that'd be insane, NTM how many matches you'd hafta have then! or else how long they'd be, but in either case it'd be insane. they wouldnt do that to us would they?

so, on the note of 5's... 5 goals per alliance? 5 main things you hafta do to possibly win the match? an obstacle course with 5 things in it? 5 bars to hang from? 5 big balls that are somehow important...
*i could go on for as long as you'd like...
but i'll just you yall that to speculate off of for now. :cool:
hehe
~Stephanie

just an fyi 2001 had 5 team alliances ;)

[trev2023]

just an fyi 2001 had 5 team alliances ;)
wow! this must mean it has something to do with 2001.....maybe 2001: A Space Odyssey! :ahh: (goes off hunting for clues)

[n0cturnalxb]

Haha ... we're all going crazy :P

Dave and his ambiguous clues .. and our overactive imaginations/brains :ahh:


Speak, Dave, speak again!! :D

[Pat Fairbank]

when did the official game hint come out last year and in years past?

Well last year it came out on January 6th, which was 4 days before kickoff, and it came out in this e-mail blast (http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/showthread.php?t=23399). However, I seem to recall that it turned out that the same hint had been part of Dave's signature for some time before this... so it's entirely possible that we've seen the actual hint already! :ahh:

[Stephen Kowski]

ok i don't like number hints anymore....too many possibilities.....stick to song lyrics

[Swampdude]

If I were looking for a clue (http://www.geocities.com/Colosseum/Bleachers/6055/baddonut.wav), I would be looking (http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/showpost.php?p=292355&postcount=1) to John (http://www.geocities.com/Colosseum/Bleachers/6055/donuts.wav) Neun (http://www.chiefdelphi.com/pics/bin/107666230649.jpg) But that is just me.

-dave (http://www.peoplespub.com/nercda/text/doughnut.html)

Hey! that was my fourth post of the day! Woohoo! (http://favewavs.com/wavs/cartoons/woohoo.wav)

[meaubry]

If you click on John Nuen picture, it takes you to a photo of him standing next to Wildstag 97 robot - the year we played Toroid Terror. Perhaps we will be playing with something other than balls again. (ball type games have been used extensively, except for 3 notable times - inner tubes, floppies, plastic bins) I think Ty might be on to something. Dave does like donuts!

[JVN]

Please Note:

John Neun (http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/member.php?u=7211)

JVN (http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/member.php?u=46)

I honestly believe Lavery is talking about my father, and that I (JVN) have nothing to do with the clue.

John

[Arefin Bari]

there is also a "5" written on the pipe in the picture of John Neun.

RbyGal1351 said that 5 main objectives we have to do or an obstacle course with 5 objects in it.

in John V Neun's name, V can stand for 5, in John Neun's Who Am I picture he is standing next to a pipe which has a 5 on it.

According to Beth Sweet, the game also can be a baseball theme.

so, what i am thinking is either a 5 alliance game (wow), or there will be 5 objectives of the game. or maybe, there is an objective on the field that has the most point and you have to work with your opponent to get that objective done. DAVE!!!!!! COME BACK BEFORE WE START PULLING OUR HAIR OFF!!!!! :ahh:

[Billfred]

I'm surprised, with this five talk, that nobody's mentioned this post (http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/showthread.php?postid=288465#post288465). It's spotlighted, too.

[Corey Balint]

I really dont see 5 individual teams going against each other. Kind of takes the between team cooperation out of the game, and also really confuse alliance picking. I think there must be some twist to make all the robots have to cooperate(my link idea). Maybe all the robots compete against each other for certain scores on the field, but get the same overall score. And whoever scores the certain objects, gets extra bonus points added onto the overall score.

[Max Lobovsky]

...and we pushed our robots uphill to the field. Both ways! And we didn't have any of those fancy motorized carts!
I cannot believe no one mentioned this. A field sloping down towards the middle? Perhaps Mr. Lavery is referring to JVN. Actually, the missing V may be indicating the V-shaped cross section of the field.

[pakrat]

Well, it seems that my thought proces i backwards form all you other peoples.


Obviously the 3 (all the baseball talk in this thread) is followed by the 4 (posts by dave, as discussed in this thread) and the 5 (from John V Neun) are in consecutive order, for a reason. Maybe theres some sort of sonsecutive theme, like in the finals and stuff, you MUST win 2 CONSECUTIVE matches to move on, or sumthins along those lines

[tkwetzel]

Well, it seems that my thought proces i backwards form all you other peoples.


Obviously the 3 (all the baseball talk in this thread) is followed by the 4 (posts by dave, as discussed in this thread) and the 5 (from John V Neun) are in consecutive order, for a reason. Maybe theres some sort of sonsecutive theme, like in the finals and stuff, you MUST win 2 CONSECUTIVE matches to move on, or sumthins along those lines

Hmm...Dave spending time to figure that out...and leave us with such a subtle clue...I don't know if he would spend time to do that...I think it is much simpler than that.

[pakrat]

Hmm...Dave spending time to figure that out...and leave us with such a subtle clue...I don't know if he would spend time to do that...I think it is much simpler than that.


My other thought: 3, 4 , 5 average to make 4. This would reinforce that 4 that dave mentioned. So, maybe some thing very solidly 4 that many people would like to challenge. Thats all i got right now, like maybe 4 way orientation robot, like being able to start sideways (both of them), upside down, and regular. I dunno, just some thoughts

[RbtGal1351]

Obviously the 3 (all the baseball talk in this thread) is followed by the 4 (posts by dave, as discussed in this thread) and the 5 (from John V Neun) are in consecutive order, for a reason. Maybe theres some sort of sonsecutive theme, like in the finals and stuff, you MUST win 2 CONSECUTIVE matches to move on, or sumthins along those lines

well that'd be interesting if you had to win consecutive matches to move on. that'd reali test your robot's durability, like if ur bot broke drastically in one match you'd either hafta be reali reali good at quick fixes or you wouldnt move on... that'd be kinda cool, but i was thinking that it might have something to do with the colon after the name in last year's comp., signifying a sequence or something, like the 3, 4, 5 thing.
now does last years comp relate more to two or three?
:eek:
*goes off searching for more potential clues*

[pakrat]

Ok, another thin i found. Dave Lavery's post was #16, and this cannot be a coincodence, time for a number analysis again.

Number of posts made be dave according to dave on that day: 4
divide thsat into the post number he had: 16/4 equals 4
the threee main numbers brought up added up: 3+4+5= 12
the average of those numbers: 12/3 = 4


Thats a lot of fours, i thihnk something is there!!! :ahh: time to keep searching all over the place

[pakrat]

most recent thing: John V Neun has 4 (theres that magic number again) posts in this thread)

[Alex Golec]

most recent thing: John V Neun has 4 (theres that magic number again) posts in this thread)

So that could mean 1 vs 1 vs 1 vs 1 (new)
or 4 vs 0 (2001)
or 2 vs 2 ("standard"/"modern")
maybe a three on one? with the one-robot side getting some sort of advantage to use?

So does this mean once JVN posts again here the magic average moves up to 4.333? that would make for some sort of a funky alliance- 4 operational and one other.

Going with patterns and all, every two years there is a 'dramatic' change in first.

1993 - water-filled balls
1995 - things that happen during the match count (the FIRST football game)
1997 - team numbers and intertubes
1999 - alliances of 2 on 2 and floppies. Field is rectangularized.
2001 - alliances of 4 versus the clock
2003 - autonomous mode and bins

So every two years there's a change to something in the format. Anyone up for the revival of the hexagon field?

_Alex

[Swampdude]

That "4th post of the day" meant 4 hints out there:

1 (http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/showpost.php?p=288465&postcount=19) - 2 (http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/showpost.php?p=289765&postcount=15) - 3 (http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/showpost.php?p=290106&postcount=32) - 4 (http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/showpost.php?p=305619&postcount=16)

here's my hints: 2001 and Pete Best = alternate or human player ;)

[Karthik1]

I cannot believe no one mentioned this. A field sloping down towards the middle? Perhaps Mr. Lavery is referring to JVN. Actually, the missing V may be indicating the V-shaped cross section of the field.

Wow this is the first guess I can actually agree with, it makes perfect sense, a sloped field. The whole game would be played fighting against gravity. It would be a very interesting game. I this were the case, we probably wouldn't have balls to gather because well they would all end up in the middle of the field, we wouldn't have to work to gather them, all we would have to do is go the center and pick them up. So if the field is like a V then I predict that there will be no balls, or circular objects.

I hope we move on to something different, I mean there are lots of interesting objects out there, besides balls. After all this whole first experience is about experiencing new things, so shouldn't our robot experience new things.

[Alex Golec]

Another interesting foretelling coincidence is Michigan's local OCCRA competition, which is in the fall. OCCRA '03 had mobile goals, balls, and the 'power ball' (basically a large green ball to cap the goals with), much like 2004 FIRST. This year's OCCRA used field components called tubies- 3 half-foot lenghts of 3'ID PVC bolted together into a triangular prism, and a ramp with holes in it. Gotta love coincidence.

_Alex

[Billfred]

Wow this is the first guess I can actually agree with, it makes perfect sense, a sloped field. The whole game would be played fighting against gravity. It would be a very interesting game. I this were the case, we probably wouldn't have balls to gather because well they would all end up in the middle of the field, we wouldn't have to work to gather them, all we would have to do is go the center and pick them up. So if the field is like a V then I predict that there will be no balls, or circular objects.

I hope we move on to something different, I mean there are lots of interesting objects out there, besides balls. After all this whole first experience is about experiencing new things, so shouldn't our robot experience new things. V-shaped field? BRING IT ON!

Finally, us R/C truck racers will bring something to the table. If there's a true V in that field (and not a U), then we're looking at some hardcore suspension design. Very few robots I saw last year could drive to the other side of such a field.

And keep the balls. Even if they're all in one place, there was no robot I saw last year that could easily be adapted easily for the odd angles and greater chance of riding up on the balls. A scooping mechanism would have to be more advanced than this year.

So I think we'd be in for good times if that were the challenge.

[RbtGal1351]

that would be cool!
besides, no body would ever expect something like that, so all the teams would have to redesign any drive trains they had "pre-designed", and you couldnt re-use last years either. and here:
http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/showpost.php?p=285250&postcount=32
This is the best reason yet to change (reduce) the weight restriction on FIRST robots for next year. Veteran teams have become complacent about this issue. Many of them start designing some of their subsystems in the fall, working under the assumption that the weight limit will be 130 pounds. They then have (yet another) leg up on the rookie teams and others that wait until the kick-off to really start planning out their machine.

*Prepares herself for a V-shaped field*
~Stephanie

[Levin571]

that would be cool!
besides, no body would ever expect something like that, so all the teams would have to redesign any drive trains they had "pre-designed", and you couldnt re-use last years either. and here:
http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/showpost.php?p=285250&postcount=32


*Prepares herself for a V-shaped field*
~Stephanie
I think Dave is just trying to buy time by sending us on a wild goose chase till the real clue comes out. Tricky Tricky!

Dave Dave Dave when will you learn.



Silly Lavery trix are for kids (couldn't resist:D)

[JVN]

most recent thing: John V Neun has 4 (theres that magic number again) posts in this thread)Ut oh!
How many do I have NOW!?!?


Quote:
Originally Posted by JVN
...and we pushed our robots uphill to the field. Both ways! And we didn't have any of those fancy motorized carts!

I cannot believe no one mentioned this. A field sloping down towards the middle? Perhaps Mr. Lavery is referring to JVN. Actually, the missing V may be indicating the V-shaped cross section of the field.
You didn't notice the "no motors" reference? :ahh:



So every two years there's a change to something in the format. Anyone up for the revival of the hexagon field?

FIRST follows absolutely no patterns. There is no method to their madness.
Nothing but CHAOS.

[Wetzel]

Ut oh!
FIRST follows absolutely no patterns. There is no method to their madness.
Nothing but CHAOS.

CHAOS is 131....1+3=4!
and then 4+1=5!

I'm onto your games Mr. JVN.


Wetzel

[Steve W]

Wow this is the first guess I can actually agree with, it makes perfect sense, a sloped field. The whole game would be played fighting against gravity. It would be a very interesting game.

It would because if you were defending your goal you would be going with gravity giving you the advantage. EG Stack Attack.

[JVN]

CHAOS is 131....
Jeff,
Remember, chaos is entropy and Entropy is 138.

John

[JeffO]

I like the idea of a v-shaped sloping field, but that would make it very difficult for teams to build low cost practice fields, so I don't think FIRST would go in that direction.

[Wetzel]

Jeff,
Remember, chaos is entropy and Entropy is 138.

John

And entropy is energy. FIRST=energy, that had been obvious for a long time.

1+3=4
8-4=4!

The answer is 4!


Wetzel :)

[Max Lobovsky]

I like the idea of a v-shaped sloping field, but that would make it very difficult for teams to build low cost practice fields, so I don't think FIRST would go in that direction.
In addition, it would be hard to adapt the current field perimeter walls to a V shaped field. Unless, of course, only part of the field is a "V" (like Stack Attack inverted). Personally, I hope, and believe, that it will not be a V because of the difficulty that introduces into autonomous operation. I think FIRST is, and should, be headed towards increased importance of autonomous control, and will adapt the game to this goal.

[tkwetzel]

In addition, it would be hard to adapt the current field perimeter walls to a V shaped field. Unless, of course, only part of the field is a "V" (like Stack Attack inverted). Personally, I hope, and believe, that it will not be a V because of the difficulty that introduces into autonomous operation. I think FIRST is, and should, be headed towards increased importance of autonomous control, and will adapt the game to this goal.

I think that to make the top of the "v" start at the bottom of the plexiglass on the current player station walls and have them slope downwards to meet the other slope at the floor level in the center wouldn't be too hard or too exspensive (if they don't use exspensive materials to create it). They could also add a flat part at each end of the field (at the top of the slopes) to make the slope steeper or to have a spot to put something so it would not automatically roll to the middle. It is very doable, but I doubt that we will see a field in such a manner in this year's game.

[Steve W]

Who says that they have to slope to the center between the ends. Maybe the high point runs between alliance partners from red to blue end. Or they could also slope into the center between alliance partners from red to blue. :eek:

[meaubry]

From Dave's 4 posts of the day -
1) no alliances (1 on 1 on 1 on 1 on 1) 5 or V at a time
2) hint about a Beatles song - Dave liked last years Stairway hint (Pete Best was suppose to be the mysterious 5th Beatle) Penny Lane - lane might work, Yellow Submarine (water - nope), Strawberry Fields - fields, theres just too many!
3) game piece something that a juggler would use (bowling pin, bowling ball, chain saw (nah))
4) inverted v shaped field - ramps on the ends of the fields - robots start in the middle - or the other Nuen photo is standing next to a conveyor belt (hmmm)?

[Levin571]

uh oh now JVN has 6 posts... the consecutive numbers keep on going

so maybe a 6 sided field

[Joe Matt]

Remember guys, FIRST is running low on money, they build more fields this year and last year, so I don't think we will see anything different from the rectangle design with four driver positions at each end.

[Elgin Clock]

<me> looks at 76 posts and 6 pages worth of more rumors... </me>

Ughh.. what have I started? I was trying to see why no OFFICIAL FIRST E-MAIL hints have been dropped yet, and I get talk of very vague (if any) hints that seem to be stretching on FIRST hint quality..

I guess we can't have a hint (like drums?) or 70's song lyrics, or a math formula every year. :rolleyes:

Sorry Brandon... Didn't mean to make another Rumor thread...

These crazy ChiefDelphi.com members... What can I say??? :ahh:

[Katie Reynolds]

These crazy ChiefDelphi.com members... What can I say???I think you just said it all!! :yikes:

[Vin211]

I talked to Dean Kamen this weekend at the FLL Event in Enfield, Connecticut. Trying to get a simple hint from him was like trying to squeeze water from a rock. He simply smiled, put his hand on my shoulder, and said "be patient! You'll have to wait. I guarantee you're going to love the challenge this year...."

[Jeff_Rice]

The game will be one one one one.

3-4-5 is a right triangle.

The winning team will get the score of the hypotenuse, unless they decide a low score wins this year.

And the robot dimension requirements will be a vertical triangular prism, causing all robots to look like cheese wedges, because cheese is nothing like donuts.

[John Neun]

Hey, wait a minute, I AM John Neun! I haven't seen anyone mention it yet, but I know a learned and erudite guy like Mr. Lavery would know that our name means "9" in German.

[Steve W]

Leading us astray but the clues are still there. The numbers 5 and 6 are visible in Johns picture. The plot thickens.

[Eric O]

Well as I see it, John Neun's head is round and shinny like bowling ball, that means we are using bowling balls this year. Like his father, JVN will soon have the advantage of his head resembling a game object.

-Eric

[Amanda Morrison]

Well, JVN still has a little bit of hair. Maybe it'll be an astroturf field?

[Swampdude]

Mr. Nuen sir, is it not true that you enjoy Donuts for Dessert?!!?!? AHA!!

This V thing is pointing in the same direction as the first 2 clues, 5 teams per alliance. 4 on the field at a time. See 2001 rules.

A giant sloped 48' field because the V is missing?!?!? ugh.... You guys need to watch more CSI or something.... :rolleyes:

Poor Mr. Nuen got sucked into this thing, all unsuspecting. Now he's going to be lurked upon. But unless he makes donuts with that big machine of his, I'm not biting...

[JVN]

...Like his father, JVN will soon have the advantage of his head resembling a game object.

Well... funny you mention that.

We always joked my little brother's head is pointed... maybe we'll have cone-shaped game objects???

[Amanda Morrison]

Wait! That's right! John has a brother, which he mentioned in this thread (http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/showthread.php?p=292185&highlight=jimmy#post292185).

That means there THREE J. (V- optional) Neuns. ... TWO of which are John (V- optional) Neuns. 2 + 3 = 5!

[George1902]

I agree with a couple predictions made so far.

I'm pretty sure Mr. Neun and Johnny Neun (the baseball player) are red herrings. I think Dave was referring to JVN and left the "V" out intentionally.
If I were looking for a clue, I would be looking to John Neun.Well, When I look at John Neun, I see 2 things. First, there's the letter "V" between those names. Second, I see 1997's inner tubes in the background. This (and Dave's previous "eat dessert first" comment, which could refer to the inner tube's doughnut shape) leads me to believe that we will have to put the inner tubes onto V-shaped goals.

Also, no one has mentioned this yet:Hey! that was my fourth post of the day! Woohoo!Dave only made one post that day that I can see. What does this part of the clue mean?

[Joe Matt]

Four posts, that means four physical posts, for scoring, blocking, whatever. Add that to the donuts at the VA science center clue, then the JVN clue, and the eat desert first post.

I'd say we should expect to see rings of some sort, inflatable, metal, whatever, and some sort of dowls or posts to put them on or remove them from.

Question is, how does Dave's infared post relate to this game?

[George1902]

Question is, how does Dave's infared post relate to this game?Each of the 2 V-shaped goals (4 posts, get it?) will have IR beacons to make it possible to score in autonomous mode.

[tkwetzel]

Each of the 2 V-shaped goals (4 posts, get it?) will have IR beacons to make it possible to score in autonomous mode.

There will probably be an increased score given to objects scored during autonomous. And "eat dessert first" means that autonomous will be at the end, requiring the robot to use the IR beacon to find its way to the posts. I think Dave is feverously designing a new game now, since we have figured out the game he had already planned.

[Wetzel]

We know they build and play out game ideas and tweak from that. Perhaps Dave was playing the game and you score by 'posting'.

Horseshoes? Frisbee golf? :ahh:


Wetzel

[John Neun]

Wait! That's right! John has a brother, which he mentioned in this thread (http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/showthread.php?p=292185&highlight=jimmy#post292185).

That means there THREE J. (V- optional) Neuns. ... TWO of which are John (V- optional) Neuns. 2 + 3 = 5!

You are all starting to scare me. Actually, I don't care for Krispy Kreme donuts. I'm from the Northeast, and we have Dunkin' Donuts here.

[tkwetzel]

You are all starting to scare me. Actually, I don't care for Krispy Kreme donuts. I'm from the Northeast, and we have Dunkin' Donuts here.

Uh oh! John Neun now has 4 posts (the magic number...according to some).

[Swampdude]

You are all starting to scare me. Actually, I don't care for Krispy Kreme donuts. I'm from the Northeast, and we have Dunkin' Donuts here.

Riiiiight.... you know, you look familiar (http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=31616)

[Karthik1]

I think that to make the top of the "v" start at the bottom of the plexiglass on the current player station walls and have them slope downwards to meet the other slope at the floor level in the center wouldn't be too hard or too exspensive (if they don't use exspensive materials to create it). They could also add a flat part at each end of the field (at the top of the slopes) to make the slope steeper or to have a spot to put something so it would not automatically roll to the middle. It is very doable, but I doubt that we will see a field in such a manner in this year's game.


Well when I thought V shaped field I really meant a sloped field only at the edges sort of like this \___________/ , and a elevated platform at the ends. so we would only have to build a ramp on each side of the field (the shorter side) so if u were a driver the base of the robot would be like eye level with thew base when you start. Then in like autonomous mode you would go down the ramp, or wait does eat desserts mean that autonomous is at the end. :eek: Wo that would mean that that all the robots would need like a GPS like system. ;)

[Jay H 237]

Perhaps this "V" is actually a ramp the robot has to drive over and/or balance on similar to 2001 (http://www.team237.com/gallery/BC2/980430_003). We all know how they sometimes like to incorporate ideas from previous games.

[RbtGal1351]

wow autonomous at the end?
that'd be reali hard/weird/complicated.
cuz ud hafta know where you are in order to do stuff, so in order to do ur autonomous right, everyone would be scrambling at the end of not-autonomous to get to where they need to be. (itd also then be hard to not block other ppls bots when you know where they need to get...just sorta be right where they need to be... la dee da :rolleyes: )
but then, if you're NOT where you need to be, who knows where you're bot would end up if it just did what it'd normally do... (course a good programmer would make an override switch that the driver could flip right before non-auto mode ends so that nothing happens :cool: , for fear of running your bot into other things...)
also, what if some bots were broken but still ran, or piled on top of each other cuz one fell over, and they went to do what they wanted to do during autonomous!
no, i dont think they'd have autonomous be at the end after some non-auto time. esp after only having auto mode at all for a couple of years!
my opinion anyway :D
~Stephanie

[pakrat]

Eat Dessert First

I dont know about you, but for me and most people i know, desert is a pleasing thing to the masses. And what do the masses do at competition?? they cheer, and when do they cheer the loudest?? (apart from when something catastophic happens

That's right folks, they cheer when the socre comes out. Im onto you, Dave.

Eating dessert first means that we will have to predict our score before the match starts. This is gonna make it a bit harder, and the best defense could be a good offense (make the opposing team get too many points), so, that means that its gonan be a crazy year.

And in regards to the post about 2 parts hydrogen and one part oxygen.

Obviously, this has got to do something with more than juyst the surface. Dave is often a cryptic fellow, so im guessing this has somethign to do with either the fact that hydrogen is explosive and oxygen is fallamable, or maybe something to do with number 7, the next consectutive number (mass of 2 hydrogens divided mass of an oxygen, roughly.

Well, thats my speculation for the moment. LEt the newest rumors begin!!!

[Karthik1]

Haha 2 hydrogens and 1 oxygen, maybe 2 on 1. No just joking. Eat desserts first has got to be a clue so think about it. what does he mean. :confused:

[tkwetzel]

...Eat desserts last...

Dave actually said "Eat dessert first"...changes everything that you have said and all your thoughts that you didn't want to share.

[ahecht]

I still think he's talking about donuts.

[Heretic121]

Wow... my first post on speculations...

I want to know what the main #'s are going on... I'm hearing 5 and 4 being thrown around a lot... I'm assuming that means the # of teams involved in each alliance... which could make sense ESPECIALLY if the game is 3v3... but that would move the # of teams in the elim rounds down to 20, which i don't think they would do... But if it was 4 the regionals would need at least 32 teams... (and do all regionals have 32 teams???)

I'm going to stand firm on the 3 team alliance, but with the V shaped field theory and the 4 posts... I am imagining right now... a field where is almost an |_ shape that looks like a V w/ a 90* angle... the 4 posts being 2 on the points of the right angle (one near side one far side) |._ and then having one post in the middle of it on each end in front of the player station X yards out... *maybe a diagram coming???*

But also another theory of the "V" shall we call it... is the same |_ shaped field, but in the middle of the field... there is a /- in the middle of the field at the bend, kind of like a table top *like 2003's ramp but on a smaller scale* which connects the 2 parts of the field. The 4 posts would be in the same spot and they would be opposite scoring sides like 2003 once again, where you would have to put the "deserts" on the posts...

[Swampdude]

Here goes my almost complete best guess:

I like Georges idea of the 4 posts to hang the donuts on.

So in keeping with the 2001 format, we all need to work against the clock to get the donuts hung, and these donuts will likely be red, blue, yellow and green inner tubes - or the posts are the different colors indicating "your" scoring location. This way you can affect your own score like 2001 with the colored balls. But there's also an objective. I think the 4 bots (4 bots, cuz there will only ever be 4 driver stations) work together to assemble something (don't think we've seen the hint on this yet).
I think all those fancy transmissions and defensive strategies are going on the shelf. I'm thinking good maneuverability, not muscle, when working as a team. I think we're grabbing inner tubes and hanging them on posts. I think these tubes are going to be the place to be selfish and up your individual score, like 2001. We're also going to need to move fast, and hit the button to get the time multipliers. I think these posts are going to be a painful height like last years bar - so amble, fast and long arms. The human players will be tossing these donuts on either your bot, or on the tall posts.
When looking at 2001's best teams, the designs all met a specific need and complimented each other. I think a game like this will call for a variety of designs such that we will be able to compliment each other. This objective is the key to our design, that can also allow us to grab the donuts without defeating the objective design. This will be our real challenge..... I'm sure that in this year, as we've had almost every year, we will be dragging a big mobile object around (or multiple) - possibly mobile posts. As usual there will be the place for the "box bot" with nothing more than a drive train, that can still be "in the game". Which supports the mobile objective.

[RbtGal1351]

whoah wait!
if dave said "eat dessert first," and we normally eat dessert last, doesnt that mean that something we normally do last will be done first, not the other way around?

so, persay, taking from last years comp, we get a bunch of points if we start on the bar and then get down so that we're NOT on the bar at the end...

or, cuz i dont think autonomous will be at the end, you could go with this donut theory and say that we could be taking the donuts OFF the posts and putting em somewhere else... or on the bot maybe? a bunch of donut carrying bots...
hmmm
sounds interesting

~Stephanie

ps- and with the thought from Swampdude that there will still be "the 'box bot' with nothing more than a drive train, that can still be 'in the game'.", a V shaped field is unlikely. itd be harder for ppl to "wing it" on their bots.

[gsensel]

Looking through here I notice no one has mentioned alliances of 4 with 2 competing (so 8 teams on the field at a time)... I be this is it.

[MikeDubreuil]

If I were looking for a clue, I would be looking to John Neun. But that is just me.

-dave

Hey! that was my fourth post of the day! Woohoo! I'm not certain because I don't have access to private CD forums so maybe some exclusive members could confirm this...
Dave only made 1 post in a public forum that day.

Could that mean that the #4 and #1 are a clue? For instance, a game where 4 robots are on the field, but with no alliances. I would imagine this would necessarilly be everyone for themself but more like the bridge balancing year.

It's important to remember that the Isreal regional is a little whacky with only 11 teams. Which means the game must also work for them. Something to think about.

[Swampdude]

Twice put to the public "you design the game". Here were some responses that kind of match the current clues. Especially the last one.

2 honorable mentions:
1 (http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/showpost.php?p=41161&postcount=138) - 2 (http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/showpost.php?p=35297&postcount=19)

But I think we have a winner:
Donut Discord (http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/showpost.php?p=265745&postcount=21)

[JohnBoucher]

Eat desserts first? Great... As you know desserts spelled backward is
"STRESSED" :ahh:

[pakrat]

I'm tellin you people, its gonna be declare your score before the match, and like points off if you arent at the right score.

Also, the only important numbers are the first 3 consecutives: 3, 4, and 5. makes lots of people think of triagles, which means 3 teams on the feild at once. A one vs 2 game with the one having the choice of two seperate mobile goals, and the team of two, each team can only score in one of the mobile goals..

[Levin571]

first is all about teamwork and friendship so to go back to individual vs individual would got against the spirit of FIRST. I think that we'll be seeing team playing for a long time (I've met some of my best FIRST friends by being in their alliance).

[Jaine Perotti]

But I think we have a winner:
Donut Discord (http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/showpost.php?p=265745&postcount=21)
I think you are REALLY on to something.

Desserts/Donuts and Posts... this game has got it all.

In fact, you can make a perfect anaolgy with this one:
"Life is short. Eat dessert first." :: "Matches are short. Get to the donuts first."

There is always a fight for scoring objects, and it always helps to be first! This reminds me of the 2003 game, when IMHO, the match was almost always determined by who could get to the top of the ramp and push over the boxes first. Perhaps this means that autonomous mode WILL be first, and who ever gets to the donuts(dessert) first, will have an advantage for the rest of the match.

Going back against my earlier opinions, I think that probably the number speculation (based on the triple play by John Neun and the '4 is kind of like 5') isn't really all that valid because there is too much ambiguity associated with these numbers (odd isn't it -- ambiguous numbers) within this context. The 3's and the 5's could mean infinitley many things in this case, and I am not sure if there is enough solid evidence based on what Dave has said to argue the existence of specific elements of the game associated with 3 or 5.

I do think that there is solid evidence that the number 4 may play a large role in this game.
Hey! that was my fourth post of the day! Woohoo!However, I do not think that the number 4 will play a role in alliances because it has been stated that only 3 teams will be winners of each regional. However, that doesn't mean that there won't be changes in the alliance system from last year...and again the ambiguity of these numbers factor in. Who knows what they might do?

I really like the idea of there being 4 posts to hang or place donuts on. This takes the evidence provided and draws a reasonable conclusion.

As I thought about the quote more (Hey! that was my fourth post of the day! Woohoo!), I was wondering if there might be a way to somehow "claim" these posts...for example, if you put your alliance's color donut on top, then you claim the points in that stack/post for your own. If, for example, there were a total of 4 posts on the field, if you were able to claim all four of them for your alliance...you might be saying "That was my fourth post of the match! Woohoo!" Also, trying to get donuts onto posts would also be a good way to challenge human players. It would almost be like playing the game "Ring Toss". I think that "Ring toss" would add a good human element.

Overall, I think it is really difficult to tell what Dave means by all of this, and in interpereting clues, we should be careful not to be lead astray by our own complex interperetations...in other words, we shouldn't be over thinking it.
We should probably avoid this: "The word 'dessert' has 7 letters, which, when multiplied by 4, equals 28, which is a multiple of 14. And when 5 is subtracted from 14, you get 9, which is the square of the number 3! That means that there will be 3 teams per alliance!"

Let's keep it simple...and keep on guessing. This is fun.

--Jaine

PS. I had a thought about what the donuts could be made of. I know that there has been some speculation about inner tubes; what about those 'floaties' that little kids wear around their waists before they know how to swim? Those are pretty easy to get a hold of and probably less expensive than inner tubes.

[Karthik1]

Picture a school playground on a field. Ya you know it would be cool. like a marry-go-round in the middle shaped like a donut, and playground balls bouncing every where. OOOO don't forget the tires also shaped like a donut. You guys I think I am on to something.

[Swampdude]

Bingo Jaine, you get a cookie. Whether this is the game or not, I don't think it matters if we nailed it on the head. Other than to have a little prior thought of it. The only way to make this knowledge worth while is if you could convince your whole team of it, and start brain storming now. Which likely will turn out a waste of time. Why risk it. But it's going to be interesting to look back on this thread and see how far we were off. This Ajunx guy did a good job coming up with this game. I like it.
I think the last donut on cancels out the ones below it, leaving whoever on top, and however many of that color down would count. Getting all the way across the field and on that pad will be a real pain in autonomous, I bet that won't happen too often. Considering all the collisions on the ramps during autonomous. Looks like the "box bots" could get the pucks close to the HP's for the donut toss, and then play a defense with the opponent pucks. Pulling those pucks over the ramps is quite a load. I can see some last minute bang ups keeping opponents from puck zone scores. Everyone will fight over the yellow donuts. I like how there's multiple ways to play this game.
Everyone will start autonomous, by dragging their goals across to the other side, then you'll see all these bots driving wildly all over the place hoping to hit the pressure pad (if they make it across). If they don't make it across, and they collide on the ramp, their timers will send them all over the ramp and off the field while it's hoping to hit the pad. Heh.
Then if you made it across, you can go for the donuts in the middle, first guy there will grab the yellows, and then hop on their puck.
Our old 1998 bot was a puck jumper, and would get it's belly on the puck, and then lift the rear wheels up at the last minute. That would be a good idea to be able to drive the puck around, and still be in scoring position at the last minute. I bet a lot of teams will drop a wheel like an outboard motor and drive that puck across while on it. I think a sickle shaped arm could scoop up these donuts from below, up over the pipe, and carry them like a torch to your puck, then invert the sickle to spill over the puck pipe. Just think how quick you could change the score by plopping a (your color) donut over a full rack of opponent yellows, and then pushing them out of the zone at the last minute (that's a valuable teammate).
Heh, I hope this is it, I'd like to see this game - looks fun and interesting.

edit: oops there are no ramps... yay!

[ah27]

personally, i dont believe that this is an actual hin, just something to occupy you guys, but heres something i dont think (maybe i just missed it) any of you have considered.

In John Neun, the normal 'V' might have been intentioanally left out. Why? because John ann Neun both hve 4 letters. If the V was in there, then it would offset the 2 sets of 4 letters.

[LBK Rules]

Virus infected tacos and KK donuts.

Don't you'll remember that Mr. Lavery had said that the hint was something at the SMV (http://smv.org/)? :rolleyes:

Anyway, that's what he said.

[Arefin Bari]

Virus infected tacos and KK donuts.

Don't you'll remember that Mr. Lavery had said that the hint was something at the SMV (http://smv.org/)? :rolleyes:

Anyway, that's what he said.

Space Station
Lift off 220 miles above the Earth at 17,500 mph to ride with the astronauts aboard the international space station. A collaboration of 16 nations, the international space station is the first step toward future exploration of Mars. Space Station is a story of challenges, setbacks and triumphs … and ultimately, the shared international victory of men and women whose dreams exceed the limits of life on this planet.


This is off of the website that LBK Rules provided. 16 Nations, here we go back to number “4” again. 4 alliance play at one time, 4 teams per alliance.


“Your mission: to explore the wonders of the Red Planet! Check out the solar system's largest volcano and a canyon as long as the continental United States. Did you know that a piece of Mars was found on Earth? How did it get here? Create a swirling dust storm like those seen on the fourth planet from the sun and learn about Martian weather conditions. Find out about the latest discoveries from NASA's orbiting spacecraft and landers as you operate a model rover.”

^ that is off the website too. does it give us more clue? Before i confuse myself more i shall end this post... :rolleyes:

[Jaine Perotti]

have you noticed that Dave has been talking about baseball alot lately?

http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/showpost.php?p=308767&postcount=53

http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/showpost.php?p=309043&postcount=71

...anyone else find this interesting?

I'm wondering if maybe he was talking about John Neun the baseball player....

[Joe Ross]

have you noticed that Dave has been talking about baseball alot lately?

...

I'm wondering if maybe he was talking about John Neun the baseball player....

I think Dave saw people make a connection between John Neun and baseball, and has purposefully started to exploit that link.

[SpaceOsc]

i Can Fully Assure that "Desserts" = Field Elements

If you have any interest to why im so sure, pm and ill tell you (Maybe youll make me unsure)

[dlavery]

have you noticed that Dave has been talking about baseball alot lately?

http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/showpost.php?p=308767&postcount=53

http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/showpost.php?p=309043&postcount=71

...anyone else find this interesting?

I'm wondering if maybe he was talking about John Neun the baseball player....

Of course, it might just be that baseball is on Dave's mind right about now, because he is REALLY upset that the Washington DC government is about to completely screw up the first serious opportunity to bring baseball back to DC in the last 32 years, and he was getting all excited about getting season tickets, but now it looks like they will just be for one crummy season in RFK Stadium instead of a brand new facility that would be the envy of the baseball world...

... or maybe not.

-dave

[sanddrag]

... or maybe not.
Alright. We are playing with baseballs. Teams will have a hard time getting them to the goals because they all collect in the center of the field because it is a slight V shape incline. The object is to remove all the baseballs making the "center gone" and place them in goals for 4 points each. But, "4 is not enough" If there are no baseballs left in the center "trough" of the field, one of the alliances gets a multiplier making them worth more.

When the center is gone, four is not enough.

[Corey Balint]

Well, baseball and 4 would be the bases, and with the center gone, no pitchers mound, so maybe the human player has to throw something from one of the four bases. The bases would be at corners diagonal from each other, like a baseball diamond.

[Wetzel]

... or maybe not.

-dave

Yup. Maybe it will end up in Dulles. :)


Wetzel

[Andrew]

If I were looking for a clue, I would be looking to John Neun. But that is just me.

-dave

Hey! that was my fourth post of the day! Woohoo!

If you search on DL's posts, you will see that this was not, in fact, his fourth post of the day, it was his only post of the day (12-03-04). I think this means the number four is significant. Not that you should find three other posts with clues.

"Looking to John Neun" could mean look at a picture of J. N. (as several have suggested) or to look up Johnny Neun, the baseball player (as others have suggested).

In order for Dave to have used an obscure picture on CD as a clue (say the number 5 on a pipe or the fact that J.N. is standing in front of a paper machine), he would either have to know that such a picture existed or he would have had to troll through the CD picture gallery for hours to find such a coincidence. So, I doubt that the CD picture is the referenced clue.

However, Johnny Neun, as a first baseman, completing an unassisted triple play for Detroit in the 1920's might be something that Dave would be familiar with. And, due to Dave's long time familiarity with CD, the coincidence of Johnny Neun's name with John Neun and John V. Neun would be expected. Hence, if Dave is pointing us toward the unassisted triple play, he would pick Johnny Neun instead of, say, Raphael Furcal, the most recent person to complete an unassisted triple play.

What is the unique feature of the unassisted triple play? One defender eliminates three offensive players.

This leads me to believe that there will be four safe zones (or bases). We will have one defender facing three opponents.

Combining this with the Championship eligibility criteria that there will be three (3) regional champions and Car Nack's prediction

Car Nack Predicts #1 for 2005

There will Not be alliances with three teams per alliance in 2005.

Car Nack has spoken

leads me to believe that the 2v2 competition from the past few years will not be repeated in 2005.

[RbtGal1351]

leads me to believe that the 2v2 competition from the past few years will not be repeated in 2005.

ditto.

i was thinking that maybe FIRST is taking its idea of "gracious professionalism" and its alliances to another level so that you dont want ANY of the other teams on the field to be broken or anything.. say, there are 4 teams on the field, and you have to work with team 2 to do such-n-such, team 3 to do something else, and team 4 for another task, so you can only win if you work with ALL the other robots.
this would be an interesting twist... :yikes:

~Stephanie

[Billfred]

ditto.

i was thinking that maybe FIRST is taking its idea of "gracious professionalism" and its alliances to another level so that you dont want ANY of the other teams on the field to be broken or anything.. say, there are 4 teams on the field, and you have to work with team 2 to do such-n-such, team 3 to do something else, and team 4 for another task, so you can only win if you work with ALL the other robots.
this would be an interesting twist... :yikes:

~Stephanie
Interesting concept. However, how would this be any different from 2001's 4v0 game where you had to work with all of the other robots on the field? With all of the robots working together, you have no defensive force on the field. And defense is what makes a game interesting.

[RbtGal1351]

Interesting concept. However, how would this be any different from 2001's 4v0 game where you had to work with all of the other robots on the field? With all of the robots working together, you have no defensive force on the field. And defense is what makes a game interesting.

well they could make it reali complicated (which wouldnt be too surprising...) and for the first half of the game, teams 1 and 2 and teams 3 and 4 would be "allied" and would have to do Task 1, and for the second half of the game, teams 1 and 3 and teams 2 and 4 would have to do Task 2. [then maybe teams 1 and 4 and teams 2 and 3 on task 3?]
but no time in between switching partners to work on robot, so if a robot you were against fell over, you'd be upset because you're allied w/ them the next section of the match.

~Stephanie

[shyra1353]

well they could make it reali complicated (which wouldnt be too surprising...) and for the first half of the game, teams 1 and 2 and teams 3 and 4 would be "allied" and would have to do Task 1, and for the second half of the game, teams 1 and 3 and teams 2 and 4 would have to do Task 2. [then maybe teams 1 and 4 and teams 2 and 3 on task 3?]
but no time in between switching partners to work on robot, so if a robot you were against fell over, you'd be upset because you're allied w/ them the next section of the match.

~Stephanie

that would be kind of complicated to explain to my grandmother so I don't think FIRST would do it .. though I do like the idea ..

[Sachiel7]

Just a tad of info here,
Speaking of numbers...
Check out this post (http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/showpost.php?p=309988&postcount=4)
The KOP is supposedly made up of 5 parts this year...
There's your 5 again...
(hee hee)