THE 2005 HINT!!!!!!!!!

[Aaron]

Today started like any other day, until robotics class. When I got to class my teacher decided to tell us this years hint. If you haven't heard it yet, here it is:

"Four is not enough, and the center is out"

When i asked if this was the official hint my teacher just answered that he knows people (it does seem true, he has some friends in the upper echelons of FIRST).
What i want from you good people is:
A) confirmation of this hint
B) All of the speculation you people can fling around




2005 is around the corner, forget Santa, I want Dean

[Tom Bottiglieri]

Four? WE GET MORE THAN 4 TEAMS ON THE FIELD?!?!

[Jeff Rodriguez]

More like 3v3 instead of 2v2, but then the field could get really crowded. So they take the structures out of the center.

[Alex Golec]

Well thats an unofficial hint for now. Maybe we'll have a donut field and an obstacle relay race with 3 robots per relay team. Or the revival of the hexagon field.

Best we can do now is go crazy with the speculation until FIRST gives some offical announcement- if any this year. January 8th is now only 22 days away.

_Alex

[phrontist]

Is this official?! Don't lead people on man! Your post title gave the impression that it was. How did he present this? Did he say "this is the hint: blah blah" or did he just insert it in conversation and you interpreted it as such. Need more info. Insufficient Data.

[the_mayor]

?
Sounds like a hint first would give us. It's certainly cryptic enough.

[Ted Boucher]

Today started like any other day, until robotics class. When I got to class my teacher decided to tell us this years hint. If you haven't heard it yet, here it is:

"Four is not enough, and the center is out"

When i asked if this was the official hint my teacher just answered that he knows people (it does seem true, he has some friends in the upper echelons of FIRST).
What i want from you good people is:
A) confirmation of this hint
B) All of the speculation you people can fling around

since i have not heard anything... i would not believe in anything but an official announcement from FIRST

hmm.... what is four?
4 robots on the field right now ... so more than 4 robots at a time?
4 fields at nationals that lead to the center (Einstein) .... more than 4 normal fields at nationals and no Einstein, the center.
4 people were on a team field crew in 2004 .....bigger field teams?
edit...
also the center of the old logo is filled up by the junction of the triangle and square of the new one.....
edit...

[Alex Golec]

Is this official?! Don't lead people on man! Your post title gave the impression that it was. How did he present this? Did he say "this is the hint: blah blah" or did he just insert it in conversation and you interpreted it as such. Need more info. Insufficient Data.

Everything is unofficial until FIRST makes a claim for it.

But specualtion if fun, but there already if a whole 8 pages or so of guessing (http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=31570).

_Alex

[Katie Reynolds]

... (it does seem true, he has some friends in the upper echelons of FIRST.... It seemed true when Joe Ross cancelled Nationals a few years ago ...

Moving to rumor mill. ;)

[Kevin Sevcik]

I note no on the hex field. While it was exceedingly cool, FIRST has a lot invested in the current rectangular field, and the hex field doesn't lend itself as well to play in arenas. Especially arenas with viewing from just one side like in Atlanta.

[Katie Reynolds]

"Four is not enough, and the center is out" C'mon guys - think about it.

Four is not enough.... of what? Corners perhaps? What has more than four corners? Hexagons, octagons, decagons, circles ...

... and the center is out -- Right out of the circle perhaps?

Hey! Maybe the field is donuts-shaped! ;)

[SpaceOsc]

I note no on the hex field. While it was exceedingly cool, FIRST has a lot invested in the current rectangular field, and the hex field doesn't lend itself as well to play in arenas. Especially arenas with viewing from just one side like in Atlanta.
i do agree First would be smart to keep the rectangles for financial reasons.


but the hint makes me think it effects the field as opposed to the robots


4 Sides of the field are not enough... and the center is out, a BAGEL (hehe) Shaped Field

maybe... makes asking each team for 1000 dollars more a lil more worth it now doesnt it

tho ive been wating for more then 4 robots on the field for a long time, anyone who thinks it be to crowded, just look at the 2001 game. games are more fun when theres less on the field (dont argue it, its just an opinion and preference)

-Osc-

[Tom Bottiglieri]

Maybe your robot needs to have more than 4 wheels. or sensors.

[Aaron]

Is this official?! Don't lead people on man! Your post title gave the impression that it was. How did he present this? Did he say "this is the hint: blah blah" or did he just insert it in conversation and you interpreted it as such. Need more info. Insufficient Data.


My teacher started our class off with the hint. The thing that makes me think this is a real hint was the smug, cocky look on his face when he told us the hint :cool: . Another bit to add to his credibility was that last year he told us that Stairway to Heaven hint at about the same time of year (which, mind you, was not made official until nearly a week after people started spreading it). When we were speculating in class the smug grin only got larger and he didn't say anything :cool: . I know this is not official yet, but i have a feeling it might be the real hint.

[Kyle Love]

Here's a Kyle guess. I am guessing an octagon field without a center where there are 3 alliances with 2 teams each...that's all I have to guess right now. My real guess will come on Jan. 8th. :p

-Kyle

[Kevin Sevcik]

I dunno. I'd rather have the 1K back than a novel field shape. A circle's definitely out, though. I mean, are they gonna pay that much to roll all the pipe and bump plate and plexi into arcs?

I suppose a hex field could be a possibility, though. just an odd one.

Perhaps the field will just be bigger with more robots on it....

speaking of donut shaped fields, what about a square field with all the drivers and players in a box in the middle? that'd be a really big change.

[tkwetzel]

There were also four goals...could be more than four goals that don't have a center or you don't score if the scoring objects end up in the center. I don't think the center of the field will be missing, but in the baseball terms that have been flaoting around, it may have to do with getting out in baseball? Just some suggestions.

[ShadowKnight]

The center is out could be referring to an out of bounds for the robots (like a score area that you can't cross without a penalty )...well, last year there were 4 goals. 2 stationary and 2 mobile goals. There could be a fifth goals of some kind...

[Arefin Bari]

since i have not heard anything... i would not believe in anything but an official announcement from FIRST

hmm.... what is four?
4 robots on the field right now ... so more than 4 robots at a time?
4 fields at nationals that lead to the center (Einstein) .... more than 4 normal fields at nationals and no Einstein, the center.
4 people were on a team field crew in 2004 .....bigger field teams?
edit...
also the center of the old logo is filled up by the junction of the triangle and square of the new one.....
edit...

Ary has spoken...

For once, i am agreeing with ted.

now here are my guesses, more than 4 fields at nationals. maybe more than 4 teams play during one match, 3 alliances (3 teams per team) play in one match. 2 robots go in at a time. what if the field is a triangle? 2 robots start off each corner? an obstacle sitting in the middle which is donut shaped (center is out). or the game pieces are donut shaped (replacing the balls), which the robots have to collect and keep in their goal zone. the center of the field is the points breaker, in another word justl ike back in 2003 we had the king of the hill, 2004 we had hanging robots, 2005... yet to come...


WAIT!!! the robot has to eat as many donuts as possible. :)

Edit- Just because a FIRST mentor asked to call them bagels.. fine ... the robot has to cut the bagels in half, put cream cheese on there and eat as many as possible... :)

[SpaceOsc]

Ary has spoken...

For once, i am agreeing with ted.

now here are my guesses, more than 4 fields at nationals. maybe more than 4 teams play during one match, 3 alliances (3 teams per team) play in one match. 2 robots go in at a time. what if the field is a triangle? 2 robots start off each corner? an obstacle sitting in the middle which is donut shaped (center is out). or the game pieces are donut shaped (replacing the balls), which the robots have to collect and keep in their goal zone. the center of the field is the points breaker, in another word justl ike back in 2003 we had the king of the hill, 2004 we had hanging robots, 2005... yet to come...


WAIT!!! the robot has to eat as many donuts as possible. :)

Stop Calling them Donuts Dang it!!!!!


There Bagels

[Max Lobovsky]

I'd say that it definitley is not more than 4 teams per match as getting even 4 teams on the field and off the field in a timely manner was a challenge.

Second, I doubt the hint would be talking about the number of fields at nationals, because, frankly, who cares?

Same goes for the number of people on the field.

I don't think it would be in reference to the number of goals last year because its not like people are actually expecting there to be 4 goals next year for any reason.

And finally, I think the cost of a new field (unless they are going to use the old hexagon field) is prohibitive, so it isn't referring to the shape of the field.

In conclusion, we can say, with reasonable certainty, that we know nothing.

[Ted Boucher]

Bagel or Donut ... sounds like a modified floppy from 1999 to me

[Corey Balint]

Well, Krispy Kreme is donuts, so maybe the field is a donut shape. Could have been Daves long passion to have a giant donut.

[Vin211]

WHoa! That's an awesome hint! Sounds like a good one directly from Kamen himself.

Hmmm 4 is not enough, the center is gone! What does that mean!?

I agree that there may be more teams involved on the field this year. Instead of 2 on 2....maybe something else?!

How about 5?! The 5th Robot somehow gains points from both competing teams?! eh eh eh?! Just a thought, I'm trying to think out of the triangle, circle, square!

The center is gone?! Hmmm for the past couple years, the center of the field has always been the high scoring area. Whether hanging on a bar, balancing a bridge, balls in a trouf.

I believe perhaps maybe there will be scoring points at opposite ends of the field! Then again, perhaps scoring points would involve placing items collected into a trailer that is towed by each robot! Sounds like a challenge to me!

[Koko Ed]

Well thats an unofficial hint for now. Maybe we'll have a donut field and an obstacle relay race with 3 robots per relay team. Or the revival of the hexagon field.

Best we can do now is go crazy with the speculation until FIRST gives some offical announcement- if any this year. January 8th is now only 22 days away.

_Alex
Oooo! Ooooo!
Maybe they took my game design! (http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/showpost.php?p=261600&postcount=5)
How cool would that be? :D

[rocknthehawk]

hmm...maybe the middle being out means the speculated V shape.

[TheOnlyAnomaly]

have anyof you noticed that there is generally more teams registered at each regonal? could it be that more teams can comptete eg.. 6 teams on the field?
just a thought
and "The center is out" could it be that they are going back to a 2002 field design where there is no center area like Stack Attack and FFrenzy?

[Koko Ed]

have anyof you noticed that there is generally more teams registered at each regonal? could it be that more teams can comptete eg.. 6 teams on the field?
just a thought
and "The center is out" could it be that they are going back to a 2002 field design where there is no center area like Stack Attack and FFrenzy?
Oh man, I hope not.
I hated the 2002 game! :(

[Stephen Kowski]

what an awful hint.....i like my hints in the form of a song, or waaaay more cryptic

[Alex Golec]

Oooo! Ooooo!
Maybe they took my game design! (http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/showpost.php?p=261600&postcount=5)
How cool would that be? :D

It might make a record for the most expensive field FIRST has made.

_Alex

[Koko Ed]

It might make a record for the most expensive field FIRST has made.

_Alex
Which is probably why it won't happen.
*wonders what is the most expensive fild FIRST ever made*

[Joe Ross]

I suppose a hex field could be a possibility, though. just an odd one.

It's not like it hasn't been done before.

[NotaNerd]

It makes sense. 1000 extra dollars for no reason. There was no reason fro them to raise the entry fee. All it did was cause teams to fold this year. My only guess is that this game has to be more expensive and that the field will be a weird shape. A very costly weird shape.

[Kevin Sevcik]

I know hex fields have been done before, it's just that FIRST has had rectangular fields the past 6 years, since the advent of alliances. I think they have a lot invested in the rectangular setup. Plus, hex fields lend themselves more to multiples of 3

[Alex Golec]

1000 extra dollars for no reason. There was no reason fro them to raise the entry fee. All it did was cause teams to fold this year. My only guess is that this game has to be more expensive and that the field will be a weird shape. A very costly weird shape.

Before we start:
- Inflation has risen since 2000 (last time they changed the price)
- First has grown in size, therefore, the network connecting FIRST has expanded.

I would like to see a change from the 2-team alliance format, and I'm hoping thats what "four is not enough" means. The 3 vs. 3 is possible and so is a 2 vs. 2 vs. 2.

The center is out: If there are any structures in the field, they might be put on the sides. That would be an interesting change.

_Alex

[Tom Bottiglieri]

The center is out: If there are any structures in the field, they might be put on the sides. That would be an interesting change.

_AlexI dont think that would happen based on audience viewing. It would be hard to look at a game with obstacles on the side of the field. (Think UTC)

[Corey Balint]

I dont think that would happen based on audience viewing. It would be hard to look at a game with obstacles on the side of the field. (Think UTC)
Not only that-possible saftey issue as well, although theyd probably make something to prevent robots from flipping outside of the field.

[Swampdude]

OK I'm going to bite.

I like alex469's deductive reasoning, I think we need to follow that line of thinking. Like 5 player stations just seems out, also a field change seems out.

I'm sticking with this game (http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/showpost.php?p=265745&postcount=21) which can add up to this hint as well. Say if they won't let you on the center platform and you need to reach over to get the donuts. Also the fact that there's 5 posts in the center (more than 4).

[Arefin Bari]

I haven't seen this one yet... but What if the clue is telling us 4 Human Players arent enough?

[dlavery]

Of course, it could be that no real hints have yet been released by FIRST, Aaron's teacher doesn't really know anything at all, and he is just having a little fun watching everyone run around trying to deduce information from a hint that isn't really a hint.

Nah, couldn't be. I don't believe that any such wierd, demented personality could exist in our society that would do such a sneaky, devious thing...

-dave

[sanddrag]

You really do like to mess with us Dave. Is it sarcasm, or is it sarcasm of sarcasm, or that upon sarcasm!?!?!? How do we ever know what you mean or if you say what you mean or mean what you say or what!?!? :ahh: :)

[Corey Balint]

Well back to the center gone idea, maybe the field has a bar or one long rectangular stationary position in the middle of the field, stretching from side to side, and maybe the only way through it is a missing spot in the center. Although this is just a rumor, i have nothing better to do then think of different ideas, wow i need something to do.

[dlavery]

You really do like to mess with us Dave. Is it sarcasm, or is it sarcasm of sarcasm, or that upon sarcasm!?!?!? How do we ever know what you mean or if you say what you mean or mean what you say or what!?!? :ahh: :)

I always mean what I say. I just don't always say what I mean.

And who is to say what is the mean? Do I mean the mean? Or even the average? Or am I just being mean (or average, which could be my mean)?*

-dave

* those that have taken a semester of Statistics will find this very funny. The rest will be going "huh???"

[slickguy2007]

I hope that the game won't include more than 4 bots on the field at a time. It always took long enough for 4 bots to set up and exit the field and it will take even longer for 6 bots to set up and exit the field. This will not help keep FIRST events on schedule if they do this!

[Sean Schuff]

Nah, couldn't be. I don't believe that any such wierd, demented personality could exist in our society that would do such a sneaky, devious thing...

If you saw the news today you know that Sean O'Keefe, NASA Administrator, has made his resignation official. Who, pray tell, is capable of filling his shoes? Dave Lavery?! NO! He's too busy playing mind games on CD!! C'mon Dave, just a little clue? 22 days is the perfect amount of time for you to give us a hint and have us run around chasing our tails trying to figure it out!

I'm through guessing. Every time I speculate as to what the game will be I am WAAAAAAYYY off. I'll just be entertained by all the wild ideas that fly around here. I do like the donut idea. Just like Homer, "Mmmmmmmm. Donuts!"

Keep 'em guessing, Dave!

Sean

[Arefin Bari]

I always mean what I say. I just don't always say what I mean.

And who is to say what is the mean? Do I mean the mean? Or even the average? Or am I just being mean (or average, which could be my mean)?*

-dave

* those that have taken a semester of Statistics will find this very funny. The rest will be going "huh???"


Alright thats it. before i get more confuse.. here is the 2005 game clue...

Dave says "2005 game is PIMP"

GOOD LUCK... :)

[techtiger1]

Definitely agree with Fin that we should just stop for now. I am game for anything and i know most of the teams know the game will be awesome. Until then kickback relax and enjoy the peace till January 8th. Then it's all over and the mayhem and fun begins. :D

[Levin571]

maybe a 5-6 sided field with a funnel shape in the middle going along with the many sided field and the imfamous "V"

[funstuff]

Just wanted to point out that "the center is out" may not refer to a hole or pit of doom, despite how fun thatd be, that would make the field like a donut/bagel. It may be referring to the tasks not being centrally located like they have been recently. (This may be useful if there are more teams on the field)

[Barry Bonzack]

What if "four is not enough" is referring to the fourth dimension, time? Could we be given more than 2 minutes this year to play our game?

[JoeXIII'007]

Dave says "2005 game is PIMP"
PIMP - Precisely Invented for Mechanical Perfection
- Pole, Incline, Manuevers, Pot

Whatever it is, PIMP is definitely an acronym of some sort.

Back to the other hint at hand:

"Four is not enough, and the center is out"

Four is not enough, whether that be

4 goals
4 ways to score points
4 bots on the field
4 things to do to win (2004: corral, shoot, cap, hang; 2003: Topple, stack, place, and conquer[hill])
and 4 of anything else. Whatever it is, {x:x > 4}

...and the center is out, meaning

The center is not an issue OR
The center is home of a smaller mission OR
The center is just not there, but it doesn't make the field a donut, or a washer, or a floppy disk, or whatever else. BUT, like in 2004, where OUTside the field there was a ball on tee and if knocked over in auto mode balls were released, there could be an autonomous mode target in the center this time.

[rees2001]

“Four is not enough, and the center is out”

What? This makes no sense. & Dave you didn’t really add anything to the conversation.

This doesn't really look like one of FIRST's standard answers. It looks misleading and probably so far from the norm that it can't be considered. They usually put something out about score or how the score is going to be calculated. As far as I can remember they have not deviated from this cryptic plan. I would just like to square things off and get rid of all these negative ideas.

I’d like to sum things up by saying, all of the teams will know what they have in store for us in January. Let’s just sit tight, drink some eggnog, & take a look back on a great year.

[henryBsick]

What if "four is not enough" is referring to the fourth dimension, time? Could we be given more than 2 minutes this year to play our game?

Hypothetically...If this were an OFFICIAL hint... that would be my guess because it is SOOOO far out of the box. Nice one Barry :) .
Any-who time is money and there isn't a whole lot of money left for Christmas shopping (both ways) happy holidays everyone :D .

[Matt Leese]

When I hear "the center is out," the only thing I can think of is the The Second Coming by W.B. Yeats (http://www.well.com/user/eob/poetry/The_Second_Coming.html)

Matt

[Salik Syed]

maybe if you go into the center of the field it will turn on autonomous mode... i.e you can't cross over under driver control

[sanddrag]

I don't know what to make of this, but in John V Neun's name, the center is the V, but Dave intentionally left it out of that first post saying only John Neun.

[ShadowKnight]

...all of the teams will know what they have in store for us in January. Let’s just sit tight, drink some eggnog, & take a look back on a great year.

Unless of course you're like my team and don't have time to speculate because we have plenty of work left to do before the season starts.

Getting back on topic though, I like the baseball analogy that has been used. It DOES coincide with criteria that FIRST established when it went to the community following the end of the 2004 season asking for input for the new game, involving the human player as a much more important role or so it would seem in that scenario. ;)

[Amanda Morrison]

I don't know what to make of this, but in John V Neun's name, the center is the V, but Dave intentionally left it out of that first post saying only John Neun.

http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/showpost.php?p=305622&postcount=19
http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/showpost.php?p=305902&postcount=46
http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/showpost.php?p=305978&postcount=47

[sanddrag]

http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/showpost.php?p=305622&postcount=19
http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/showpost.php?p=305902&postcount=46
http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/showpost.php?p=305978&postcount=47I already knew about all that discussion, but I was just saying maybe that V in the name is the only center that is left out, maybe it is not at all related to the game or field. But instead, it is confirming our suspicion that the greater hint lies within John Neun.

It really is amazing how far we run with all of this stuff. LOL

[tkwetzel]

...there could be an autonomous mode target in the center this time.

There could be a target in the center of the field and it gets out of the center and moves around and you have to use the IR beacon to get to it. There are many ways it could be played with or used.

[MrToast]

maybe if you go into the center of the field it will turn on autonomous mode... i.e you can't cross over under driver control

I LOVE that idea... That means if things go wrong, we have more of an excuse to blame it on the programmers! :yikes:

MrToast

[n0cturnalxb]

When I hear "the center is out," the only thing I can think of is the The Second Coming by W.B. Yeats (http://www.well.com/user/eob/poetry/The_Second_Coming.html)

Matt
-gasp-

-digs out notes-

The world will turn to chaos?
The future is unpredictable and unreliable?

,,, Maybe this is a warning :P Don't hang your hopes up too high for whatever you predict, because the future (or the game itself) is unpredictable? That.. or just don't bother until the offical hint comes out (or till January 8).

[Swampdude]

Ya know, I actually believe Dave here (http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/showthread.php?t=31832&page=1&pp=15). I don't think this is a real clue. Maybe this instructor was misunderstood, or just messing with his team. Either way it doesn't seem like a source. Unless this guy actually knows (saw) something and spilled some sacred beans, and Dave is getting flustered. In which case, if he we're giving real clues and Dave has not been. Then I could go along with the all the 5-6 team stuff and a funky field. But I'm siding with Dave :D

Me being Joe Schmo, I haven't heard anything from people close to kickoff coordinators and others that know stuff. So I think FIRST is doing a good job of guarding their secrets. Plus I really don't want to know, but honestly I can't help but feed the excitement of trying to figure it out, and wanting to get going with the season. This may be one of the most enduring factors of FIRST that makes it so addictive. This whole process has become my Christmas morning gift opening ceremony. Yep, I LOVE this stuff!

[trev2023]

OK...this is another way out there theory...

I was wondering why the word "out" was used instead of "gone" or something. Which got me thinking of word games. What if it means that the game's name has the letters o u t in the center of it??? :ahh:

[Tom Bottiglieri]

Dictionary.com definition of out... (#7)
7. In or into a state of unconsciousness
So Im going to say the center is used only for autonomous mode.

[George1902]

When I hear "the center is out," the only thing I can think of is the The Second Coming by W.B. Yeats (http://www.well.com/user/eob/poetry/The_Second_Coming.html)
Hah! I thought the same thing. I don't think it relates to the game, though. =-]

Here's my guess. 4 is not enough does mean more than 4 'bots on the field. Each team will be required to build 2 robots this year, one large 'bot controlled by the normal FRC controller and one minibot controlled by the EDUbot controller. 4 big bots will have to deliver the 4 minibots to a center platform where they will run autonomously for the rest of the match.

The small bots will have to corral baseballs into soccer-style goals on the platform while the big bots place donuts on v-shaped goals that can multiply the minibots' scores.

[Tom Bottiglieri]

Hah! I thought the same thing. I don't think it relates to the game, though. =-]

Here's my guess. 4 is not enough does mean more than 4 'bots on the field. Each team will be required to build 2 robots this year, one large 'bot controlled by the normal FRC controller and one minibot controlled by the EDUbot controller. 4 big bots will have to deliver the 4 minibots to a center platform where they will run autonomously for the rest of the match.

The small bots will have to corral baseballs into soccer-style goals on the platform while the big bots place donuts on v-shaped goals that can multiply the minibots' scores.

I feel like that game would be really boring to watch. lol

[Dested]

Hah! I thought the same thing. I don't think it relates to the game, though. =-]

Here's my guess. 4 is not enough does mean more than 4 'bots on the field. Each team will be required to build 2 robots this year, one large 'bot controlled by the normal FRC controller and one minibot controlled by the EDUbot controller. 4 big bots will have to deliver the 4 minibots to a center platform where they will run autonomously for the rest of the match.

The small bots will have to corral baseballs into soccer-style goals on the platform while the big bots place donuts on v-shaped goals that can multiply the minibots' scores.

As if there wasnt enough time to build one!

[Andrew]

Hah! I thought the same thing. I don't think it relates to the game, though. =-]

Here's my guess. 4 is not enough does mean more than 4 'bots on the field. Each team will be required to build 2 robots this year, one large 'bot controlled by the normal FRC controller and one minibot controlled by the EDUbot controller. 4 big bots will have to deliver the 4 minibots to a center platform where they will run autonomously for the rest of the match.

The small bots will have to corral baseballs into soccer-style goals on the platform while the big bots place donuts on v-shaped goals that can multiply the minibots' scores.

You mean like this http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/showpost.php?p=263634&postcount=35?

and this

http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/showpost.php?p=262068&postcount=26

Note:...Robovision was intended to be Robovation.

[Elgin Clock]

since i have not heard anything... i would not believe in anything but an official announcement from FIRST

hmm.... what is four?
4 robots on the field right now ... so more than 4 robots at a time?
4 fields at nationals that lead to the center (Einstein) .... more than 4 normal fields at nationals and no Einstein, the center.
4 people were on a team field crew in 2004 .....bigger field teams?
edit...
also the center of the old logo is filled up by the junction of the triangle and square of the new one.....
edit...
Hey Ted, you forgot one..

4 Ball tee's with IR beacons.

And this coincides with the comment about learning to use the IR sensors, for more sensors will be added in years to come.

By the way:

Four
Is
Not
Enough

Center
Is
Out

Not to mention, FIRST's most recent partnership with Robonexus (http://www.innovationwatch.com/mail-2004.08.19-01.htm)leads to the knowledge that a Robonexus partner, International Data Group, has a publication called CIO (http://www.cio.com/), which also did a feature on FIRST itself (http://www.cio.com/archive/091504/tl_science.html)mentioning the game in 2000 (http://www.team237.com/2000.htm)in which their were only 4 teams competing, and the ramp in the center of the field was "in" scoring position.


But.. That's all I'm gonna speculate for now, since this is not an "official" FIRST Media Blast hint yet.

I was already burned on guessing what the game was all about last year.
Don't want that to happen this year, by just guessing at non-official hints again.

[Aaron]

i've been mulling over this for a while, the most sensible reason for the first part of 4 is not enough that i can think of is that the teams will be five people each. With 2 human player. It seems resonable. now to figure out the center is out part...

[Joshua May]

i've been mulling over this for a while, the most sensible reason for the first part of 4 is not enough that i can think of is that the teams will be five people each. With 2 human player. It seems resonable.

I think someone at kickoff last year mentioned something about increasing the level of human player activity from 2003-2004, perhaps this is the next step of increasing the Human Player's interaction with the Game/Robots in FIRST.

[Raul]

Which is probably why it won't happen.
*wonders what is the most expensive fild FIRST ever made*
Ed, I would guess the 1998 hexagon field, with all the pipes all over the field, was the most expensive to set up, or at least the most complex to build.

[Stephen Kowski]

Ed, I would guess the 1998 hexagon field, with all the pipes all over the field, was the most expensive to set up, or at least the most complex to build.

I dunno....i remember that grating from 2003 to be pretty darn expensive....along with that huge slab of HDPE

[sanddrag]

I dunno....i remember that grating from 2003 to be pretty darn expensive....along with that huge slab of HDPEAlong with the welded aluminum structure underneath.

[meaubry]

My guess is that there will be more than 4 teams at a time (4 is not enough) playing some type of ring toss game using hula hoops (the center is out)

[Mr.G]

First could easily modify their current field. The expensive part is the players stations. They could cut them in half and used them as sides of an octagon. The rest of the field is cheaper railing the can be cut up and welded back together. All that is remaining is carpet that is replaced every year anyway.

Look how much some teams change their robot between rounds, FIRST can certainly modify a field cheaply in 6 months.

[Greg Perkins]

sur·prise:
tr.v. sur·prised, sur·pris·ing, sur·pris·es

1. To encounter suddenly or unexpectedly; take or catch unawares.
2. To attack or capture suddenly and without warning.
3. To cause to feel wonder, astonishment, or amazement, as at something unanticipated.
4.
1. To cause (someone) to do or say something unintended.
2. To elicit or detect through surprise.
n.

1. The act of surprising or the condition of being surprised.
2. Something, such as an unexpected encounter, event, or gift, that surprises.



I've been debating heavily on posting in this thread....

Its kind of disheartening to sit here and read peoples comments and thoughts. I see January 8th as like Christmas....you've waited all year, now you get to see what your getting... I can't stand people who always ask me what i got them for christmas, its utterly rude, and annoying. I feel the same thing is happening in FIRST.

Now please, dont think I am just trying to be a buzzkill, but I do believe i have a point....Just wait until January, and have it be a real SURPRISE

[dlavery]

I've been debating heavily on posting in this thread....

Its kind of disheartening to sit here and read peoples comments and thoughts. I see January 8th as like Christmas....you've waited all year, now you get to see what your getting... I can't stand people who always ask me what i got them for christmas, its utterly rude, and annoying. I feel the same thing is happening in FIRST.

Now please, dont think I am just trying to be a buzzkill, but I do believe i have a point....Just wait until January, and have it be a real SURPRISE

I really like your analogy. The kick-off is your opportunity to finally open the REALLY BIG box that has been sitting under the tree. All the guessing, speculation and rumors leading up to kick-off are analogous to shaking the box to try to figure out what might be inside, even though you don't really want to know until you get to unwrap it. The official FIRST hint (when it comes out) is like that little tear in the wrapping paper that almost lets you make out part of the UPC code on the side of the box.

You are right in that the best part is finally being able to "unwrap the box" and see the surprise inside on January 8. But still, I don't think that there is one amoung us that, as a kid, didn't shake the box occasionally! :)

-dave

[Wayne C.]

I really like your analogy. The kick-off your opportunity to finally open the REALLY BIG box that has been sitting under the tree. All the guessing, speculation and rumors leading up to kick-off are analogous to shaking the box to try to figure out what might be inside, even though you don't really want to know until you get to unwrap it. The official FIRST hint (when it comes out) is like that little tear in the wrapping paper that almost lets you make out part of the UPC code on the side of the box.

You are right in that the best part is finally being able to "unwrap the box" and see the surprise inside on January 8. But still, I don't think that there is one amoung us that, as a kid, didn't shake the box occasionally! :)

-dave


Aren't we always told by FIRST to THINK OUTSIDE the BOX ?

( PS- hey Dave- Big Mike has a shirt for you in the latest colors....)

WC

[the_mayor]

My guess is that there will be more than 4 teams at a time (4 is not enough) playing some type of ring toss game using hula hoops (the center is out)
I think your headed in the right direction. But may be intertubes instead of hula hoops. As I said before: it's certainly cryptic enough to be a FIRST hint. I also think "4 is not enough" refers to the number of robots on the field. :cool:

[RbtGal1351]

Here's my guess. 4 is not enough does mean more than 4 'bots on the field. Each team will be required to build 2 robots this year, one large 'bot controlled by the normal FRC controller and one minibot controlled by the EDUbot controller. 4 big bots will have to deliver the 4 minibots to a center platform where they will run autonomously for the rest of the match.

The small bots will have to corral baseballs into soccer-style goals on the platform while the big bots place donuts on v-shaped goals that can multiply the minibots' scores.

gackht!! :ahh: :eek:
one robot is enough! nooooooooo............
*dies*

[#1Transgirl1140]

All I can think of is that there is going to be more than 4 robots on the field and that this isn't going to be a center piece in the middle. I wonder if they are going to use IR sensors this year. That'll be interesting.

[#1Transgirl1140]

Or the center is out could mean that there is a a center platform or something and if your on it at the end of the game, you automatically lose or lose points.

[phrontist]

gackht!! :ahh: :eek:
one robot is enough! nooooooooo............
*dies*
That would be too cool.

[663.keith]

The center is out could always refer to the center being out of bounds, as in the robot cant enter the center (ooh a rhyme!) without getting some sort of penalty. An object could be in the center that the robot would have to get with some sort of extend-able hook type mechanism.

[Stillen]

I dunno guys, I've alreaady been having nightmares about this :-) , I "THINK" that when they are saying that "4 is not enough" , they are talking about wheels. Maybe four wheels this year won't be enough..... I know that 99.99% of robots have/had four wheels, I've seen very few trax robots...

[generalbrando]

I could imagine it meaning 4 goals isn't enough. While games in the past prove that idea wrong, 1 goal would not have been enough in 2002 and possibly, likewise, 4 is not enough in this year's game.

The center out...I tried the dictionary - means to single out - not too helpful and probably the wrong direction. Seems likely that if they are referring to goals as speculated here, they are probably talking about the fact that FIRST games general revolve around an object in the center of the field (only exception i can think of is 2002, but that's not exactly an exception since they start in the center).

[the_mayor]

I dunno guys, I've alreaady been having nightmares about this :-) , I "THINK" that when they are saying that "4 is not enough" , they are talking about wheels. Maybe four wheels this year won't be enough..... I know that 99.99% of robots have/had four wheels, I've seen very few trax robots...
Valid point. Most teams choose 4 wheel drive. I have found that teams go with 6-wheel drive or tracks when the game involves climbing or a need for a lot of traction. So maybe the game will involve climbing a step that is bigger than six inches. Or maybe the floor of the feild might be made if something else other than carpet which might mean that four wheel drive might not have enough traction.

[Matt_Kaplan1902]

I'm thinking that "the center is out" might mean we get some weird scoring object (kinda like the donut from 1999).

Just my quick thought.

[dubious elise]

ah, in the "four is not enough" part, i inferred that it would be like playoffs all the way along, you have 3 teams participate in each alliance, but only 2 would be on the field at a time.

just my $.02

[Elgin Clock]

<---Begin Transmission--->

After consulting with my fellow dectectives at Mystery Inc., I have a few leads as to what this clue may mean.

We are investigating this matter further as of now, but.. Fred, our fearless leader, seems to think that it is the work of none other than Red Herring and the clue is fake.

If any of you spot this person, be wary of the information they give you, and call me.

~~~~File Photo~~~~
http://www.scoobydooweloveyou.com/redherring.jpg
~~~Red Herring~~~

That is all..

<---End Transmission--->

[roboticsguy1988]

Wow, this sure sounds interesting, i am not giving out any of the hundreds of ideas i have. I will dream about it tonight and see what else i come up with ;) . After reading through all, yes i said all, the posts in this thread, i have to say there are some pretty good ideas out there. I can't wait until the kickoff.

[Alexander McGee]

I still don't understand why there is all this discussion in this thread. Something that some team's mentor told them isn't very viable. This is just like everything that happens, every single year. Just like the time that kid claimed to have "accidentally" found the game layout image on FIRST's website.

Why is this so difficult to understand? IT'S NOT REAL.

FIRST makes the decision to tell students hints. They do it in the form of an email blast, like they did last year. The "stairway to heaven" hint, rememeber?

If someone who "knows people at FIRST" decided to tell your team a "hint" ahead of time, then shame on them. If you are just making stuff up, then shame on you. If the hint is real, then shame on you for posting it. Think about what this could do the person that "knows people at FIRST"

I still don't think it's real. This thread has been driving me crazy.

[Andy Baker]

"Four is not enough"

People - you have already forgotten: Five (http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/showpost.php?p=290413&postcount=12) is something that we have previously discussed. And Dave said (http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/showpost.php?p=288465&postcount=19) that it would be easy to have a 1-on-1-on-1-on-1-on-1 game.

Andy B.

[ShadowKnight]

I still don't understand why there is all this discussion in this thread. Something that some team's mentor told them isn't very viable. This is just like everything that happens, every single year. Just like the time that kid claimed to have "accidentally" found the game layout image on FIRST's website.

Why is this so difficult to understand? IT'S NOT REAL.

FIRST makes the decision to tell students hints. They do it in the form of an email blast, like they did last year. The "stairway to heaven" hint, rememeber?

If someone who "knows people at FIRST" decided to tell your team a "hint" ahead of time, then shame on them. If you are just making stuff up, then shame on you. If the hint is real, then shame on you for posting it. Think about what this could do the person that "knows people at FIRST"

I still don't think it's real. This thread has been driving me crazy.

While I agree that if people actually believed that this was an official FIRST 2005 hint, he shouldn't be posting it and the mentor shouldn't have told etc, I don't however believe it is such and doubt many people here take this thread as seriously as you might think. This is all just adding to the hype and excitement involved with waiting for the kickoff. Nothing involved in this will probably get anywhere close to the actual answer and no harm is done. Like dave lavery said, this is like shaking the box and trying to figure out what it is...this is far from official so feel free to sit back and enjoy the "calm before the storm" or join in the speculation. :)

[Alexander McGee]

Useless posting does not make sense to me. I can see two threads, almost identical, with over 20 pages of the "hype" that you speak of. What is the point of this? Shouldn't it be classified as "useless posting" which is looked down upon by many people on CD? Why isn't this in the "chit-chat" section?

I understand that people are excited, but this type of discussion is not productive. Speculation is never going to help you in the real competition. If you really have nothing better to do that speculate, why not talk about it over AIM or something like that? Why fill the portal with this garbage?

[Joe Ross]

Useless posting does not make sense to me. I can see two threads, almost identical, with over 20 pages of the "hype" that you speak of. What is the point of this? Shouldn't it be classified as "useless posting" which is looked down upon by many people on CD? Why isn't this in the "chit-chat" section?

I understand that people are excited, but this type of discussion is not productive. Speculation is never going to help you in the real competition. If you really have nothing better to do that speculate, why not talk about it over AIM or something like that? Why fill the portal with this garbage?

Did you look at the forum that you are posting in? If people on chiefdelphi didn't like speculation, why would there be a forum devoted to rumors?

Did you realize that you can hid the rumor mill from the portal? Go to user cp->Recent Posts Config. While you're at it, you should probably add the curmudgeon forum.

[ShadowKnight]

Well, the rumour mill forum by definition of what it is meant to be used to discuss, rumours, will as a result be used to discuss such. Because rumours are rarely ever based off fact, this particular forum will inherently produce mostly non-productive conversations. The kid who posted this thread did exactly what the forum called for, "hear a juicy rumour? Let the world know!" For that reason I think i should stay in this forum. However, it would have been nice if this had been posted under the pre-existing thread meant to discuss this topic. I would agree with you on that.

[Alexander McGee]

Did you realize that you can hid the rumor mill from the portal? Go to user cp->Recent Posts Config. While you're at it, you should probably add the curmudgeon forum.

Excellent suggestion. I just wish it was set up this way as default. My students were the ones who were confused and misled. It is frustrating to constantly be explaining to them the difference between a fact and speculation as pertaining to something like this.

I had one of them email me, concerned about how we were going to afford being able to build a hexagonal field.

I don't mean to step on anyone's shoes, it's just frustrating to me.

-axe

[Gary Dillard]

What is the point of this? Shouldn't it be classified as "useless posting" which is looked down upon by many people on CD? Why isn't this in the "chit-chat" section?

It's in the RUMOR MILL section, hence it is a RUMOR. Personally I find it entertaining to see what gets started in this particular forum section and have people go off the deep end. I doubt that any useless post would get a couple thousand views and a hundred replies (so far) in 3 days as this one has. It doesn't matter to me if the teacher actually said it or not, or if he made it up or not; anything here is hearsay so you can take it for what it's worth - usually nothing.

I understand that people are excited, but this type of discussion is not productive. Speculation is never going to help you in the real competition.

I disagree. What are we trying to do in the competition / build season? Get kids to think, think out of the box, think through all possibilities. Look through all the posts - noone is off starting or changing their robot design based on this rumor, but they're thinking through "what could that mean?" How would we do it differently if there were 3 on 3, or 5 at a time, or no center structure? If I started a rumor that I heard the robot had to carry a cup of coffee for the whole match, I doubt anyone would take it seriously but they would start thinking "how would we do that?" Same thing with the FIRST is selling old motors threads, etc. - we may think we know the reason but until the game is announced it's all speculation.

It's also useful for teaching students that they need to read the rules, not rely on what what they've heard or remember. They change every year and relying on rumors is as bad as relying on "it was that way last year".

I'm very impressed with how well this rumor did; my attempt last week didn't generate much attention even after I recruited Arefin to help me. Nice job Aaron! And yes, it should have been a separate thread because it's a separate rumor.

[Steve W]

Ok guys let's get this back on topic. I personally guessed that 4 was not enough 2 months ago and when questions were asked there did not seem to be any resounding NO's forth coming. Does it make it true? I will know in a few weeks.

On another note - Why does kick off take so long to get here but ship date comes toooooooooo fast? :confused:

[Alexander McGee]

It's in the RUMOR MILL section, hence it is a RUMOR. Personally I find it entertaining to see what gets started in this particular forum section and have people go off the deep end. I doubt that any useless post would get a couple thousand views and a hundred replies (so far) in 3 days as this one has. It doesn't matter to me if the teacher actually said it or not, or if he made it up or not; anything here is hearsay so you can take it for what it's worth - usually nothing.



I disagree. What are we trying to do in the competition / build season? Get kids to think, think out of the box, think through all possibilities. Look through all the posts - noone is off starting or changing their robot design based on this rumor, but they're thinking through "what could that mean?" How would we do it differently if there were 3 on 3, or 5 at a time, or no center structure? If I started a rumor that I heard the robot had to carry a cup of coffee for the whole match, I doubt anyone would take it seriously but they would start thinking "how would we do that?" Same thing with the FIRST is selling old motors threads, etc. - we may think we know the reason but until the game is announced it's all speculation.

It's also useful for teaching students that they need to read the rules, not rely on what what they've heard or remember. They change every year and relying on rumors is as bad as relying on "it was that way last year".

I'm very impressed with how well this rumor did; my attempt last week didn't generate much attention even after I recruited Arefin to help me. Nice job Aaron! And yes, it should have been a separate thread because it's a separate rumor.

Listen,

I understand that I am in the rumor mill, and i understand that it is a rumor. I don't like the fact that things in the rumor mill show up, by default, in the portal. I have already written Brandon about getting this changed.

On another note, we can agree to disagree about ways to motivate your students. I have mine, and you yours. That's what makes FIRST such a wonderful program; different ideas create different things. My team is composed of 95% unexperienced FIRST students, from many different schools. My team wasn't just something centered at a single high school. I figure, if we petition ourselves to multiple high schools, we get the best and most excited ones from many different schools. And, it has worked.

Good luck to you and everyone else in the upcoming season. Weather it be on a hexagonal field, or with 15 robots. It doesn't really matter to me. :rolleyes:

-Alex

[Heretic121]

i was just randomly thinking on the whole four thing.... if "Four is not enough" then the whole "four post" delimea that was going on may contribute to the game this year... either in robot numbers or the amount of humans in drive team, either way... the not breaking four posts per day could also be a sign that there will STILL only be 4 robots w/ 4 people.

Another thing popping into mind would be the 1v1v1v1v1 thing - i just read Mr. Baker's long arse post on dave's 5 comments... which also implies that he was almost purposly going to post more than 4 times a day to conceal the 5's... also i belive Mr. John V-Nuen one day posts "AH HA! This is my 5th post of the day!" which also may have something to do with the magical number "5"!!! but i dont think first would go back to the free-for-all games like in pre-2001...

[ttedrow]

I always mean what I say. I just don't always say what I mean.

And who is to say what is the mean? Do I mean the mean? Or even the average? Or am I just being mean (or average, which could be my mean)?


This must be Section I of the 2005 rules

[Swampdude]

I'm very impressed with how well this rumor did; my attempt last week didn't generate much attention even after I recruited Arefin to help me. Nice job Aaron! And yes, it should have been a separate thread because it's a separate rumor.

Mmm hmm, sure. So Gary, why have you been building a Hexagonal field in your back yard? And now your dragging poor Arefin into this? Whats he doing for you, making donuts?

[George A.]

All I can say is that this post has been fun.

First off I attended school with the mentor in question, yes he does like to stir up some commotion every once in a while, but then again he also doesn't do anything that doesn't promote FIRST in some way.

Now onto the topic at hand...maybe 4 is not enough refers to the number of methods to score. Last year there was big balls small balls, and the bar...maybe more ways this year?

Also it might be just me but I remember last year during the kickoff, when they were explaining the game that someone (I forget who) said "the IR sensor isn't required...YET...with emphasis on the yet...which leads me to believe that the IR sensor may be required in this years game.

[Conor Ryan]

maybe it'll be like a ring, a circular arena. That would be intesting, it'll be like the coliseum in rome.

[n0cturnalxb]

<---Begin Transmission--->

After consulting with my fellow dectectives at Mystery Inc., I have a few leads as to what this clue may mean.

We are investigating this matter further as of now, but.. Fred, our fearless leader, seems to think that it is the work of none other than Red Herring and the clue is fake.

If any of you spot this person, be wary of the information they give you, and call me.

~~~~File Photo~~~~
http://www.scoobydooweloveyou.com/redherring.jpg
~~~Red Herring~~~

That is all..

<---End Transmission--->

....

:D

I <3 YOU! HAHAHAHAH!!! Love love love! ;)


--------
Anyway. The center is out.. the field will no longer be symmetrical? When something's symmetrical it will always be symmetrical about a point, whether that's a point (e.g. the origin) or a line (e.g. the x-axis) or something ... if you take that center (the "mirror") out, it's no longer symmetrical?

.. Okay, I swear that made sense in my head. I think I'm just incapable of writing right now.. too many college application essays hanging over my head.

[shyra1353]

....
Anyway. The center is out.. the field will no longer be symmetrical? When something's symmetrical it will always be symmetrical about a point, whether that's a point (e.g. the origin) or a line (e.g. the x-axis) or something ... if you take that center (the "mirror") out, it's no longer symmetrical?

aren't donuts symmetrical ?? and they don't have a centre ... well they do, but it is made of air ...

[Smurfbotguy]

Maybe there will be some sort of towers in the corners instead of having a structure in the middle.

[Sachiel7]

Assuming that this hint is legit,
My guess about the "center being out" has to do with the past 3 years of games. For the three years I've been involved with FIRST, there has always been a large game element in the center of the field. (2002-the goals, 2003-the ramp/bin wall, 2004-the platform/bar)
My guess is that perhaps the robots start in the center of the field, and the game elements are around the outer side of the field. Just a guess...
As far as "Four is not enough", there are lots of guesses. Obviously, the idea that more robots would be on the field is considerable, but not when you realize that FIRST just spent loads of money on making permanent fields for the regionals with the newer dimensions (48x24') and it would be heck to cram more than 4 bots along with field elements into that space. Plus FIRST would have to update the driver stations on all the permanent fields to run 3 hookups (assuming there are 6 bots) to each side. I just think there's too much against that idea.
I'm not sure exactly how it'd apply to the game. My best bet would be that it has to do with either autonomous or scoring.
There you have it.

[MikeDubreuil]

My guess about the "center being out" has to do with the past 3 years of games. For the three years I've been involved with FIRST, there has always been a large game element in the center of the field. (2002-the goals, 2003-the ramp/bin wall, 2004-the platform/bar)
My guess is that perhaps the robots start in the center of the field, and the game elements are around the outer side of the field. Just a guess...

I think you're right about the center being out. I think teams might start in the middle of the field. I also think this refers to us bringing back inner tubes as scorable objects.

I think four is not enough refers to the number of goals. Last year there were 4 goals, this year there will be more goals.

Also, Dave Lavery's clue about John Neun, I think this indicates we might see the use of baseballs as scorable objects. Since John Neun in an old time baseball player.

Eat desert first, I would say this means that this could either mean autonomous mode will be at the end, OR that the field will be setup giving the maximum number of points to each team and the object is to unscore your opponents scorable objects.

[Mark Koors]

I was trying to think of all the things that come in groups of four last year.

Here's my list:
sides of the field
robots per match
60 amp fuses
red/blue lights
people per team
goals per field

Any others?

[tkwetzel]

Were there 4 or 5 levels to the center of the field? If there were two small steps, there would be four levels to that.

[Chris P]

For the center is out:
I didn't notice anyone bring up Baseball at all...

On the other hand, like many people have brought up it could be in regards to a cylinder/hoop object. I think doing some sort of "stack a pyramid" would be cool (think back to those baby games where they put the rings on a pole).

Chris

[n0cturnalxb]

Assuming that this hint is legit,
My guess about the "center being out" has to do with the past 3 years of games. For the three years I've been involved with FIRST, there has always been a large game element in the center of the field. (2002-the goals, 2003-the ramp/bin wall, 2004-the platform/bar)
My guess is that perhaps the robots start in the center of the field, and the game elements are around the outer side of the field. Just a guess...
As far as "Four is not enough", there are lots of guesses. Obviously, the idea that more robots would be on the field is considerable, but not when you realize that FIRST just spent loads of money on making permanent fields for the regionals with the newer dimensions (48x24') and it would be heck to cram more than 4 bots along with field elements into that space. Plus FIRST would have to update the driver stations on all the permanent fields to run 3 hookups (assuming there are 6 bots) to each side. I just think there's too much against that idea.
I'm not sure exactly how it'd apply to the game. My best bet would be that it has to do with either autonomous or scoring.
There you have it.
Yeah! THAT'S what I meant! .. that the game elements aren't symmetrically placed (eg 2004 field), with the line of symmetry at the middle .. but they're placed around the center?

..Okay, I think I've stopped making sense AGAIN =x

[Specialagentjim]

Mmm hmm, sure. So Gary, why have you been building a Hexagonal field in your back yard? And now your dragging poor Arefin into this? Whats he doing for you, making donuts?


If arefin's making donuts, they better have hexagonal centers, or they won't fit on our robot this year.

[EricS-Team180]

If arefin's making donuts, they better have hexagonal centers, or they won't fit on our robot this year.

...what? Arefin's now making donuts for GaryDill Inc? ...even after this summer's fiasco over the "shifty" gearboxes :D


I dunno, Gary, with all the trouble KrispyKreme is having ... oh ... now wait...not THOSE kinds of donuts ...

<daydreams> 2005 game...DonutDazzle...
...robots autonomously deliver KrispyKremes from the center of the field to human players that must devour more than 4 during the autonomous period to allow manual control to be given to the operator and driver... :p

[Stu Bloom]

... <daydreams> 2005 game...DonutDazzle...
...robots autonomously deliver KrispyKremes from the center of the field to human players that must devour more than 4 during the autonomous period to allow manual control to be given to the operator and driver... :pNow THAT sounds like a game Dave would dream up ... ;) (of course the coach would be the one who has to eat the donuts)

Note: I saw Dave make some KK's disappear at IRI this year - I think his team would be tough to beat ...

[Swampdude]

<daydreams> 2005 game...DonutDazzle...
...robots autonomously deliver KrispyKremes from the center of the field to human players that must devour more than 4 during the autonomous period to allow manual control to be given to the operator and driver... :p

Man, now I can get excited about this!
*Mentor yelling at the students* EAT EAT COMMON WHATAYOU DOING EEAAATTT!!!!!!
*Students jaw muscles going numb* I can't, I need milk.... *thinks 5 matches left*
Can you see the finals? You've gotta take that 5 minute timeout to go puke...
Finally a way to glorify the teenagers ability to devour food!
This is a great game idea!

[Peter Matteson]

Man, now I can get excited about this!
*Mentor yelling at the students* EAT EAT COMMON WHATAYOU DOING EEAAATTT!!!!!!
*Students jaw muscles going numb* I can't, I need milk.... *thinks 5 matches left*
Can you see the finals? You've gotta take that 5 minute timeout to go puke...
Finally a way to glorify the teenagers ability to devour food!
This is a great game idea!

Encouraging more teenagers to become bulemic. That's what FIRST is all about. :rolleyes:

[Brandon Holley]

Heyy sorry to dissappoint everybody, but i believe all this talk was for nothing. I am also in the same class as "aaron" who supplied this hint. Our teacher like always, was playing a joke on the class. Aaron took this literally and poof, chiefdelphi madness. Like i said sorry to dissappoint everyone, but this hint was just a class joke.

[Barry Bonzack]

If I started a rumor that I heard the robot had to carry a cup of coffee for the whole match....

Enough with the "the center is out" problem.... anyone have any ideas on how they would carry a cup of coffee for the whole match? :confused:

[Aaron]

Hi everyone, apparently this was a ruse given to us by our teacher to get us excited about the competition this year coming up. Unfortunately this hype has been for nothing. Its a ficticious hint, sorry.

[roboticsguy1988]

Somehow i kind of thought it was. Although it was a good thing to get everyone thinking. <<< It gives our brain a work out for the building season. ;) It was really fun to watch all the idea's that everyone got (some people have some pretty interesting thinking caps on their heads).

[shyra1353]

Hi everyone, apparently this was a ruse given to us by our teacher to get us excited about the competition this year coming up. Unfortunately this hype has been for nothing. Its a ficticious hint, sorry.

hahaha .. thats awesome .. most people thought it was anyways .. but thanks for the entertainment!!

[trev2023]

Enough with the "the center is out" problem.... anyone have any ideas on how they would carry a cup of coffee for the whole match? :confused:

1. Have the human player drink the coffee (bleargh :ahh: ), then have the robot carry the empty mug around the rest of the match.

2. Have the robot attach a lid to the cup, making it unspillable.

interesting thoughts, though.

[Rich Wong]

Hi everyone, apparently this was a ruse given to us by our teacher to get us excited about the competition this year coming up. Unfortunately this hype has been for nothing. Its a ficticious hint, sorry.
LOL..... don't been sorry... THIS IS THE RUMOR MILL!

It was fun. (Brain needed excercise anyway.)
See yea at NJIT for the REAL brainstorming. :)

[Jessica Boucher]

Okay, I'm dating myself again...but does anyone remember this beauty?

Misdirected E-mail Unveils 2001 Game 3 Days Early... (http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/showthread.php?t=11839&highlight=email+Joe)

So, don't worry about it. Stuff like this has gone on for years. ;)

[Gary Dillard]

Enough with the "the center is out" problem.... anyone have any ideas on how they would carry a cup of coffee for the whole match? :confused:

y'know, if for some sick reason the game this year DOES involve carrying a cup of coffee, I'll have to change my name and ask for federal protection since everyone would assume I revealed privileged information (that I found in a stray pdf file). Imagine the pressure on Dave Lavery - every time he sneezes someone assumes it's a game hint.

[Steve W]

Sorry to stir the pot BUT, did you ever notice that whenever a leak occurs, shortly after there is a denial. The next thing you know , the game is revealed and voila the leak was correct. This one seems too FIRST like to not be considered. I have a funny feeling about it. I guess we'll see in a few more days.

[nkrumm]

even though the hint is supposedly bogus, what about this:

- 4 is not enough -> 5 robots, all on one side (i.e. 4 v 0)
- the center has an area for 1 or 2 robots, who will be disabled there.
- the game progresses in "tag-team" format, where one team can tag in the center robot(s) and replace them on the actual field.

Eh?

[RbtGal1351]

even though the hint is supposedly bogus, what about this:

- 4 is not enough -> 5 robots, all on one side (i.e. 4 v 0)
- the center has an area for 1 or 2 robots, who will be disabled there.
- the game progresses in "tag-team" format, where one team can tag in the center robot(s) and replace them on the actual field.

Eh?

that'd be cool!!! Tag team FIRST robotics...
and it goes along w/ the whole gracias professionalism and alliances that FIRST likes..
LoL
i luv how no one cares the hint is "supposedly bogus" reali... HahA ;)
~Stephanie

[dlavery]

y'know, if for some sick reason the game this year DOES involve carrying a cup of coffee, I'll have to change my name and ask for federal protection since everyone would assume I revealed privileged information (that I found in a stray pdf file). Imagine the pressure on Dave Lavery - every time he sneezes someone assumes it's a game hint.


Achoo!

[David Kelly]

I think its got something to do with Spongebob. He's disappearing from all around the country. Must be the only way FIRST can get ahold of those SquarePants!!! :yikes:

[Kevin Kolodziej]

Man...even if it is bogus, my thoughts must be heard:

-I really like the idea of starting in the center of the field - if not this year, NEXT YEAR!!

-Scoring on the outsides of the field would be awesome (anyone remember 2001 CDI with the Orange Juice jugs??).


-I don't think it would be that difficult to have three teams per side with the configuration that the fields currently have - they are set up for 4 per side anyway.


-"The center is out" means the return of torroids to me...that or the balls this year are going to be turned inside out :ahh:

Kev

[tkwetzel]

that'd be cool!!! Tag team FIRST robotics...
and it goes along w/ the whole gracias professionalism and alliances that FIRST likes..
LoL
i luv how no one cares the hint is "supposedly bogus" reali... HahA ;)
~Stephanie

Yeah...it would be excellent...I mentioned it here (http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/showthread.php?p=264665&mode=threaded#post264665) so hopefully it is being considered.

[Gary Dillard]

Achoo!

Hmmm..... The only reason Dave would have responded is if that really was a game hint. Is he pretending to have a cold? Could it be that the game is on ice this year?

[Billfred]

Hmmm..... The only reason Dave would have responded is if that really was a game hint. Is he pretending to have a cold? Could it be that the game is on ice this year?
...or perhaps he's just doing it to respond to your earlier post. That was way too detailed for a real Lavery hint.

Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar. :D

[RbtGal1351]

Imagine the pressure on Dave Lavery - every time he sneezes someone assumes it's a game hint.

goodness gracias ppl... if a whole bunch of nerds were talking about YOU and said that, of COURSE you'd say "Achoo!"
he's just playing w/ us...
...but thats normal, isnt it. :eek: o well,
~Stephanie

[Elgin Clock]

I think its got something to do with Spongebob. He's disappearing from all around the country. Must be the only way FIRST can get ahold of those SquarePants!!! :yikes:Actually.. in our town, the Spongebob was donated to the local Park and Rec. Department by BK for use at kid oriented events.

Could it be that the game is on ice this year?At the local mall, they have a fake skating rink that is made from the HDPE stuff that was on top of the platform in 2003.

All the slipperyness of ice, without the dreaded water.




<Elgin - Adding to the rumors on CD since 2001>

[Conor Ryan]

o neato a tag team idea. but what if a robot becomes immobilized some how and can't tag?

[Arefin Bari]

Can I have my Xmas present already, DAVE?

I am very close to pull my hairs out. :)

[Sugar_Bunny]

Maybe the scoring has to do with some sort of ring...Just a thought

[Rosiebotboss]

".....one Ring to rule them and in the darkness bind them."

[Rich Wong]

".....one Ring to rule them and in the darkness bind them."
HULA HOOPS?
The robots have to spin more than 4 hula hoops? :eek:

[Jeff K.]

I'll agree with some of the people on this thread that all of you are crazy obsessing over the 'hint' when we can just wait a little more than a week and find out what the real comp. is.undefined

[Rich Wong]

Top 10 reasons to post in or read from RUMOR MILL/2005 HINTS forum:

#10 I’m bored and suffering from FIRST withdrawals.
#9 Logic and intelligence turned off until Jan. 8, 2005 9:59AM.
#8 Nothing to do between FLL tournaments.
#7 Make suggestion that may be used in future FIRST games.
#6 Get other FIRST’er and self worked up over nothing.
#5 Practice brainstorming... no idea is too silly.
#4 It’s winter recess; can’t yell at the students to cleanup.
#3 Keeps me off the streets and away from non-FIRST’er.
#2 Did I mentioned I’m really bored.

(drum roll....)
#1 It drives CD/FIRST’er rookies crazy when they read this stuff.

(Sorry for my short moment of insanity... ) ;)

[dlavery]

Top 10 reasons to post in or read from RUMOR MILL/2005 HINTS forum:

#10 I’m bored and suffering from FIRST withdrawals.
#9 Logic and intelligence turned off until Jan. 8, 2005 9:59AM.
#8 Nothing to do between FLL tournaments.
#7 Make suggestion that may be used in future FIRST games.
#6 Get other FIRST’er and self worked up over nothing.
#5 Practice brainstorming... no idea is too silly.
#4 It’s winter recess; can’t yell at the students to cleanup.
#3 Keeps me off the streets and away from non-FIRST’er.
#2 Did I mentioned I’m really bored.

(drum roll....)
#1 It drives CD/FIRST’er rookies crazy when they read this stuff.

(Sorry for my short moment of insanity... ) ;)

And Reason #0 - Releasing them as "clues" is a great use for all those left over fortune cookie fortunes acquired while munching down on take-out Chinese food during build season!

-dave

[Gary Dillard]

And Reason #0 - Releasing them as "clues" is a great use for all those left over fortune cookie fortunes acquired while munching down on take-out Chinese food during build season!

-dave

A word from DAVE! Passed down from on high - what can it mean? Chinese food - China's on the other side of the world..... We have to compete while standing on our heads. And not just Chinese food, but "Take-out Chinese food"! What can that mean? We enter the field but can't start until we leave, it must be a human player clue. And why "Munching down"? I've got it - the team that makes the smallest stack wins! But wait, this is reason number zero - could there be something binary involved? Torment us no longer, Oh most great and knowledgable Dave. We savor your every utterance.

[Steve W]

Or could this be a reference to the Great Wall??? :confused:

[Rich Wong]

And Reason #0 - Releasing them as "clues" is a great use for all those left over fortune cookie fortunes acquired while munching down on take-out Chinese food during build season!

-dave
Wow! A great series of clues?
Well…. using the S.W.A.G. method of deduction (Stupid Wild A** Guess), here I go:
Knowing Dave’s superior writing skills, the crafting of this sentence must contain numerous game clues.
1. The use of “releasing them” is an obvious clues.
2. Fortune cookies are desserts served in Chinese restaurants; remember the previous statement: “Eat dessert first”? And these cookies are also "containers" with "contain" (the messages).
3. Take-outs are also call “Take Away” in other countries; so you got to take something away.
4. Take-outs are also associated with a container with contain. Do we put something in the container or delivery something in a container.
5. And what is another word for munching? To consume? To TAKE AWAY?
6. What are “clues” but field elements. So “left over” are additional field elements that much be collected after removal of the containers?

Disclaimer: if you believe my S.W.A.G., then I have a NYC bridge to sell ya!
;)

[Steve W]

if you believe my S.W.A.G., then I have a NYC bridge to sell ya!
;)


How much???

[mtaman02]

Disclaimer: if you believe my S.W.A.G., then I have a NYC bridge to sell ya!
;)
which one I hope not the Brooklyn Bridge b/c thats been on the market for years and has had numerous owners. I am currently the Realtor trying to sell it now got a good deal going. If you believe Rich's S.W.A.G. I will not only sell the bklyn bridge to you but I'll throw in a pair of Subway Tracks of any line of your choice for free. This package is for limited time only so act now our agents are standing by. Call in the next 10 minutes and we'll give you an additional 2 subway tracks to the ones already in the package.



OK game hint deciphered - Spelling ? too lazy to hit spell check

Maybe the field is in a different shape - no longer a rectangular shape
Maybe more robots on the field (say 3 on 3)
Maybe obstacles all over the field and the center of the field will be excluded for a safe zone to score points

[Barry Bonzack]

Perhaps we'll be allowed to use fireworks as nonfunctional decorations.


oooo... perhaps Dave Lavery is foreshadowing the China Regional!

eh? eh?

(man I'm bored)

[MikeDubreuil]

I have just recently heard this rumor:

The current FIRST field is at the end of it's life. FIRST wants fields to last 5 years and this would be the 6th year for this field.

Pure speculation:
Dave Lavery said to look at John Neun's picture, that picture shows a robot playing the 1998 game Ladder Logic. The last time the field was significantly changed :ahh:

Could we see a major field change this year?!

[Joe Matt]

I have just recently heard this rumor:

The current FIRST field is at the end of it's life. FIRST wants fields to last 5 years and this would be the 6th year for this field.

Pure speculation:
Dave Lavery said to look at John Neun's picture, that picture shows a robot playing the 1998 game Ladder Logic. The last time the field was significantly changed :ahh:

Could we see a major field change this year?!
Possible, acutally, very likely, but I don't think we will see a general square size change, nor a change in the expensive controll areas. Think about it guys, middle is out, mabey it pertains to the field as well as the scoring objects (heck, mabey even the amount of time given...)

[Bharat Nain]

So the real hint is

While wearing Amethyst colored glasses, John Neun gave George Burns the following riddle: "Look closely and you will see something between Pi, You and Me."

Any ideas? I have too many

[Madison]

It's probably a good idea to keep discussion of the official hint in one thread -- not this one, either.

[MissInformation]

So the real hint is

While wearing Amethyst colored glasses, John Neun gave George Burns the following riddle: "Look closely and you will see something between Pi, You and Me."

Any ideas? I have too many

Tigers! The robots are going to have to go up against tigers! While trapped in a lifeboat! PETA is going to have a field day with this...

Okay, it should go to one thread, but I think the tiger statement should stay...

Heidi

(just recently re-read Life of Pi)