Official 2005 Clue Thread

[MikeDubreuil]

While wearing Amethyst colored glasses, John Neun gave George Burns the following riddle: "Look closely and you will see something between Pi, You and Me."
This is an offical game clue for the 2005 season from a FIRST e-mail blast on December 30, 2004. It is documented in this thread (http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=32009). It has been brought into the Rumor Mill for discussion to keep the E-Mail Blast Archive in a more pure state...Any ideas?

[MikeDubreuil]

Johnny Neun -- May 31, 1927
Detroit first baseman Johnny Neun turned his in the ninth inning against Cleveland. Neun caught Homer Summa's line drive, tagged Charlie Jamieson between first and second and touched second base before Glenn Myatt could return.

George H. Burns -- Sept. 14, 1923
Boston first baseman George Burns turned his in the second inning against Cleveland. Burns caught Frank Brower's line drive, tagged Walt Lutzke off first base and ran to second and slid into the bag before Riggs Stephenson could return from third base.

It looks like both players accomplished their tripple plays against Cleveland.

[Corey Balint]

So something with three's and what is Cleveland famous for?

They have the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame, maybe there are lyrics that match this.

[phrontist]

Was this in a FIRST email?! If so, w00t!

Amethyst is the purple variety of quartz and is a popular gemstone. If it were not for its widespread availability, amethyst would be very expensive. The name "amethyst" comes from the Greek and means "not drunken." This was maybe due to a belief that amethyst would ward off the effects of alcohol, but most likely the Greeks were referring to the almost wine-like color of some stones that they may have encountered. Its color is unparalleled, and even other, more expensive purple gemstones are often compared to its color and beauty. Although it must always be purple to be amethyst, it can and does have a wide range of purple shades.

Amethyst can occur as long prismatic crystals that have a six sided pyramid at either end or can form as druzes that are crystalline crusts that only show the pointed terminations. As a mineral specimen, amethyst is popular for its color and nice crystal shapes that produce a handsome, purple, sparkling cluster.

However, amethyst is not the same everywhere. Different localities can produce a unique amethyst to that particular region or even to that particular mine. Experts can often identify the source mine that a particular amethyst came from. The key to this is the specimen's color, shape of crystal, inclusions, associations and character of formation.

[JohnBoucher]

March 14 is National PI day.... March = 3

[Dested]

okay, follow me here.

The IR Beacon is in the middle of the field, you cant see it, thats why you need to "Look closly", and, maybe, there are 3 teams going at it at once...?

[Michael Leicht]

My mother thinks it has to do with the scoring and 3 ways and i agree.

It looks like that 3 is the lucky number this year. about time 3 is the lucky number.

[Bcahn836]

Originally Posted by Some Random Website
Amethyst is the purple variety of quartz and is a popular gemstone.

Red+Blue = purple

[Max Lobovsky]

I think its pretty clear from the shape of amethyst gems and from the triple-play clue that we are going back to the hexagon fields with 3 teams. Now for the "Pi, you, and me" part...

[Corey Balint]

Could it be something with pyramids?

The Rock and Roll hall of fame is a pyramid shape if i can remember correctly and as previously posted the amethyst has a pyramid on it too. So maybe something in the middle of the field is a pyramid?

[Dested]

Well it has to be something invisible, cause it says "If you look closely", thats y i assumed that it was the beacon or something.

[phrontist]

I think its pretty clear from the shape of amethyst gems and from the triple-play clue that we are going back to the hexagon fields with 3 teams. Now for the "Pi, you, and me" part...

Yes I agree. Looking into FIRST History (http://www.firstwiki.org/FIRST_Frenzy:_Raising_the_Bar) , the astute reader will note that FIRST expects feilds to last for 5 years. The number 5 is also visible in John Neun's user image. This year would be the current feild's sixth if we were to keep it.

[JohnBoucher]

Leonardo Da Vinci wrote that amethyst was able to dissipate evil thoughts and quicken the intelligence.

[phrontist]

Could it be something with pyramids?

The Rock and Roll hall of fame is a pyramid shape if i can remember correctly and as previously posted the amethyst has a pyramid on it too. So maybe something in the middle of the field is a pyramid?

Amethyst is in the trigonal/hexagonal crystal system which is reflected in the long prismatic, hexagonal-shaped crystal form, often with a six-sided pyramidal terminations on one end.

found here (http://www.emporia.edu/earthsci/amber/go340/amethyst.htm)

[Michael Leicht]

George H. Burns -- Sept. 14, 1923
Boston first baseman George Burns turned his in the second inning against Cleveland. Burns caught Frank Brower's line drive, tagged Walt Lutzke off first base and ran to second and slid into the bag before Riggs Stephenson could return from third base.

is there another george burns? other then baseball?

[Corey Balint]

An Actor too (http://imdb.com/name/nm0122675/?fr=c2l0ZT1kZnxteD0yMHxzZz0xfGxtPTIwMHx0dD1vbnxwbj 0wfHE9Z2VvcmdlIGJ1cm5zfGh0bWw9MXxubT1vbg__;fc=1;ft =20;fm=1)

[Elgin Clock]

WHOOO HOO!!! Let the games begin!!

I spy with my little eye.. a bunch of numbers

Amethyst = 6th anniversary stone
John Neun -(V = 5)?
George Burns (Actor)= 100 years old when he died
Pi = ~3


Something between 3, 100, and 65?
Weird...

And Mike.. uh.. yeah. George Burns, Actor.. (http://imdb.com/name/nm0122675/?fr=c2l0ZT1kZnxteD0yMHxzZz0xfGxtPTIwMHx0dD1vbnxwbj 0wfHE9R2VvcmdlIEJ1cm5zfGh0bWw9MXxubT1vbg__;fc=1;ft =20;fm=1)

[Kevin Casper]

"I think its pretty clear from the shape of amethyst gems and from the triple-play clue that we are going back to the hexagon fields with 3 teams. Now for the "Pi, you, and me" part..."

Yes, lets go here. Another definition of Pi

What is pi? It is equal to C/d, or C/2r, where C is the circumference of any circle, and d is its diameter, and r is its radius.
http://www.jimloy.com/geometry/pi.htm

How could circumference fit in?

[Bcahn836]

My dad took a look at the hint and came up with Amethyst colored glasses = rose colored glasses. And its Montgomery Burns on the simpsons. George Burns (http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0122675/) is an actor.

[phrontist]

George H. Burns -- Sept. 14, 1923
Boston first baseman George Burns turned his in the second inning against Cleveland. Burns caught Frank Brower's line drive, tagged Walt Lutzke off first base and ran to second and slid into the bag before Riggs Stephenson could return from third base.

is there another george burns? other then baseball?

Yes, he was a vaudeville actor. See wikipedia entry (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_Burns)

[phrontist]

Aaaaah! George Burns was in a Soylent Green Promotional Film! (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0366724/) Our robots will be fueled by people ;)

He was also in a the Beatles film "Sgt. Pepper's Lonely Hearts Club Band." We'll be seeing lyrics soon!

[Michael Leicht]

thinking about last year's clue and dealt with a rule of the game so could there be something matched with the clue to a rule, you can make up. but another one of my guesses is it has to do with a rule of some thing. but the rule deals with the field and what you can do.

[Jeff K.]

Amthyst = 6th anniversary stone
John Neun -(V = 5)?
George Burns (Actor)= 100 years old when he died
Pi = ~3
[/url]

6 sided field, 95 points max??, and maybe he has an actual pie in his shirt???
I dunno, i might be totally off

[Kevin Casper]

6 sided field, 95 points max??, and maybe he has an actual pie in his shirt???
I dunno, i might be totally off

Perhaps a six sided field with a hole in the center of size Pi * (you) and (me). Whatever you and me are in that equation I don't know.

hmm... a nut shaped field.

[Bcahn836]

This is going to drive everyone completely crazy for the next 8 days. i don't think i will get much sleep. So many possibilities so many different meanings and soo many different opinions. LOL but i guess this is what FIRST is all about.

[Michael Leicht]

Could it be something with pyramids?

The Rock and Roll hall of fame is a pyramid shape if i can remember correctly and as previously posted the amethyst has a pyramid on it too. So maybe something in the middle of the field is a pyramid?

Corey you might be on to something with the pyramids i don't know how you got on it but here is something to back you up http://www.jimloy.com/pseudo/pyramid.htm this goes with Corey theory.

[Bharat Nain]

Maybe theres a pyramid in the center and thats where the robots start off at? I dont know ahhh:ahh:

[Joe Matt]

It looks like both players accomplished their tripple plays against Cleveland.
Great, thanks Dave, puttin' down Cleveland. Ya know we've done nothing bad, I mean, we even have NASA Glenn up there! ;)

3 is the magic number kidos, could we have a triangle field this year?

[phrontist]

I've got it! John Neun, George Burns, who was in a Beatles film. John and George, get it!

http://www.cjnetworks.com/~leis/album/beatles/pepper.jpg

[Kevin Casper]

My dad took a look at the hint and came up with Amethyst colored glasses = rose colored glasses. And its Montgomery Burns on the simpsons. George Burns (http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0122675/) is an actor.
rose colored glasses:
So we are looking at the world in a happy way.

[Steve W]

PI is the 16 th letter of the Greek Alphabet. The following is from a math site:

pi PI (PIE) The lower-case Pi is universally used to represent that number which is the ratio of the circumference of a circle to its diameter. The upper-case Pi is used as the “product” symbol.

[Corey Balint]

And maybe, going back to some old posts, They did not put the V in there again, as a split hint(using the baseball player and JVN) and that the missing v, when flipped upside down is a pyramid type shape.

[George1902]

"Something between Pi, You and Me" means something Pi, George Burns, and John Neun have in common. This is the number three.

So, in my opinion, this clue tells us two things and only two things: hexagon and the number three.

Three probably refers to the number of teams per alliance since I can't see them abandoning alliances. Also, most regionals are bigger this year. Regionals can be bigger because six teams will play in each match instead of four. So there can be more teams and still give everyone the matches they need.

I think the hexagon could either refer to the field's or the scoring object's shape. I'm undecided here.

[phrontist]

AND John Lennon had rose colored specs!!!

[seanwitte]

Neun and Burns both made UNASSISTED triple plays. Purple is the combination of Red and Blue. Maybe there are no longer alliances and you get extra points for doing something during autonomous.

[Madison]

While I also can't imagine FIRST abandoning alliances altogether, it may be worth noting that John Neun and George Burns are notable in baseball for having performed unassisted triple plays.

[Michael Leicht]

free for all type of game?

but with three teams

or another way is 3 teams working together?

[Elgin Clock]

But seriously a sports reference from FIRST/Dean who, in a speech, said parts of sports are bad?

[Joe Matt]

While I also can't imagine FIRST abandoning alliances altogether, it may be worth noting that John Neun and George Burns are notable in baseball for having performed unassisted triple plays.
Good find M.

[Kevin Casper]

free for all type of game?

but with three teams

or another way is 3 teams working together?

God I hope not, that last time they had all teams working together wasn't much fun.

[phrontist]

Look at this bloody album cover people! John Lennon (Neun), known for his rosy specs, and George Harrison (Burns) have a drum between them. A circle! Pi! Muhahahaha! George Burns was in the movie the beatles made about this album. This makes perfect sense. Everything is coming together.

Pi - The Drum
You - George
Me - John

Forms a triangle!!!!
In the center of which is something they are holding!

What are they holding?!

UPDATE: They're all musical instruments. What does that mean? The trumpet seems closest to the center. Trumpets are used to wake people up. Maybe waking up is leaving auto mode. Whatever the case, I'm positive Lavery was indicating this album cover. It's just so like him. First Led Zep, now the Fab Four. And hey, he mentioned the fab four in another clue! Let me find it.

[Guest]

Neun and Burns both made UNASSISTED triple plays. Purple is the combination of Red and Blue. Maybe there are no longer alliances and you get extra points for doing something during autonomous.
But if purple is the combination of Red and Blue, it could mean that FIRST is back to one pair/triplet of teams working together. And if its between Neun and Burns, would mean is not-unassisted, which would further support that teams work together as one.

[Mike Betts]

First of all, I disagree completely with this thread being in the Rumor Mill.

Second, I completely agree with the unassisted triple play idea.

Third, the roots of the word Amethyst are in the Greek amethustos meaning "not drunk" (look it up) so I think we will be following a line again.

Why is Amethyst capitalized? I wonder...

[MisterX]

I remembered hearing a thread a bit back about a kid hearing Dave Lavery saying something he saw at the Science Museum of Virginia reminded him of somethign from next years game and so I searched their website and during march of 2004 which is when they had the VCU regional there was an exhibit on CRYSTALS! specifically noting HEXAGON shaped... I wasnt there and cant find anything on the site but I would assume they also had sample on display, maybe they had some AMETHYST on show? Hexagon shaped something sounds logical....

[Arefin Bari]

I am going with what Max said, 3 Vs. 3 and a hexagonal field. ::pulls hair out::

[Corey Balint]

Why is Amethyst capitalized? I wonder...

Because a Captial A looks like a Pyramid shape lol. I'm not gonna drop the pyramid idea yet. :D

[Jaine Perotti]

While I also can't imagine FIRST abandoning alliances altogether, it may be worth noting that John Neun and George Burns are notable in baseball for having performed unassisted triple plays.Neun and Burns both made UNASSISTED triple plays. Purple is the combination of Red and Blue. Maybe there are no longer alliances and you get extra points for doing something during autonomous.Wow... I am having so many thoughts running through my head right now... but here is my first thought.

Red and Blue combined is the color purple. Is FIRST telling us that this year the line between blue and red alliances will be blurred somehow?

For example... will teams be rotated between alliances in the middle of the match? Will robots A,B, and C start out as an alliance against robots D,E, and F... and then at a certain point in the match, teams A and D switch alliances?

I could certainly see FIRST making a game like this, because it doesn't get rid of alliances and it still requires cooperation.

This is only one idea out of many, so I'm sure I will be posting more....
This is fun!

--Jaine

EDIT: Why is "You, Me, and Pi" capitalized?

[Michael Leicht]

Look at this bloody album cover people! John Lennon, known for his rosy specs, and George Harrison have a drum between them. A circle! Pi! Muhahahaha!

Pi - The Drum
You - George
Me - John

Forms a triangle!!!!
In the center of which is something they are holding!

What are they holding?!

UPDATE: They're all musical instruments. What does that mean. The trumpet seems closest to the center. Whatever the case, I'm positive lavery was indicating this album cover. It's just so like him. First Led Zep, now the Fab Four. And hey, he mentioned the fab four in another clue! Let me find it.

i am with you about the music and the game it is just who is the artist that is the big clue.

[Elgin Clock]

Look at this bloody album cover people! John Lennon, known for his rosy specs, and George Harrison have a drum between them. A circle! Pi! Muhahahaha!

Pi - The Drum
You - George
Me - John

Muwhahahahaha! Did someone say Drum again? :ahh:

[phrontist]

Muwhahahahaha! Did someone say Drum again? :ahh:

What? Did someone mention a drum before? Explain this comment!

[JohnBoucher]

Why is Pi capitalized?

[phrontist]

Why is Pi capitalized?

Proper Nouns are capitalized :D

[JohnBoucher]

Remember the Patent application on the game this year.... Alliances will still be in.

[phrontist]

Here (http://www.nauert.com/ranlegend.htm) is a great refrence to all the people who appear on that album cover. George Burns isn't on it, and neither is John Neun :-)

[Yan Wang]

I agree with the hexagonal field idea. I think that the Pi references the center of the field being a round hole. As a driver, I think that'd be a great idea. It was very difficult to see around last year's montrous center setup.

Perhaps "between Pi, You and Me" means that the hole in the center is between the two alliance members (You and Me). Thus, alliances will still exist, but they will have to play on opposite ends of the field. I can't imagine not having some type of alliance system in FIRST.

[Kevin Sevcik]

So much rampant speculation... I'll go along with the purple = red+blue thing, and the not-quite unassisted thing. My hunches are currently that it's some sort of non-alliance game, but you can also cooperate with another team in some fashion to get extra points for both teams.

Edit: Just remembered. Pi radians = 180 deg. a straight line. something's in the middle of the field on a straight line between the two teams?

[Jaine Perotti]

Why is Pi capitalized? PI is the 16 th letter of the Greek Alphabet. The following is from a math site:
pi PI (PIE) The lower-case Pi is universally used to represent that number which is the ratio of the circumference of a circle to its diameter. The upper-case Pi is used as the “product” symbol. …so uppercase Pi is used as the “product” symbol eh?

Does this mean that there will be a multiplier in this game? Like the 2x ball from last year and the stacks from 2003?

-- Jaine

[Brandon Holley]

I personally like the idea of the alliances switching in the middle of the match. It definetly seems like something FIRST would do. 3 on 3...and after a minute or such, all the lights change RANDOMLY, and the lights on the robots change to show who is on which alliance...So you cant just setup where u want to be when u change. Thats just what I'm thinking, I <3 this chaos.

[phrontist]

I agree with the hexagonal field idea. I think that the Pi references the center of the field being a round hole. As a driver, I think that'd be a great idea. It was very difficult to see around last year's montrous center setup.

Perhaps "between Pi, You and Me" means that the hole in the center is between the two alliance members (You and Me). Thus, alliances will still exist, but they will have to play on opposite ends of the field.

Very, Very, Possible

[Max Lobovsky]

I am going with what Max said, 3 Vs. 3 and a hexagonal field. ::pulls hair out::
Actually, I meant 3 teams total. As I said in some other rumor thread, 6 teams per match is unlikely because of the increased logistics headache of moving that many teams on and off the field.

I definitley think there is something to this working together thing with the blue and red blurred thing, and I am not to happy about it. I know they want to deal with the battle bots issue, but I can't imagine how they can remove the head-to-head competition and keep it fun.

[Joe Matt]

I'll put my money on a field design where you must have the other team help you get scoring objects across a chasm. Hence the 'middle is out' comment, and the purple (red + blue, guess nobody has mentioned redvsblue.com yet) clue.

[Guest]

I agree with the hexagonal field idea. I think that the Pi references the center of the field being a round hole. As a driver, I think that'd be a great idea. It was very difficult to see around last year's montrous center setup.

Perhaps "between Pi, You and Me" means that the hole in the center is between the two alliance members (You and Me). Thus, alliances will still exist, but they will have to play on opposite ends of the field. I can't imagine not having some type of alliance system in FIRST.
Wouldn't FIRST still want some interactive space between the two alliance members? Maybe the purple (red+blue) signifies this area/hole between the two starting positions that is what allows both to score/cooperate.

[Charley]

Well, last year, between one regional and the championships, our team had two partners not show up.

I mean, the whole team thing can certainly backfire...

But I wonder how strategy could work with switching alliances? That seems to be a central part of the game...

[Brandon Holley]

I am reminded of the "4 is not enough, and the center is out" clue, even tho it was a fake, look at it. 4 is not enough, 4 corners are not enough, and the center is out could in my eyes be 2 things....One the center is inside out meaning its on the outside and the outside is in (aka driver stations?) and it could also be the "amethyst" scoring area....

I am also sticking to the switching of alliances in the middle of the match as part of the whole "amethyst" scheme..

[Jaine Perotti]

I definitley think there is something to this working together thing with the blue and red blurred thing, and I am not to happy about it. I know they want to deal with the battle bots issue, but I can't imagine how they can remove the head-to-head competition and keep it fun.well... I think it is still head to head... if only 1 team is switching out at a time, then you still have to work hard together with your slighty-different-alliance to defeat the other.

Also, the alliance switching may not occur during the match itself... perhaps the alliances change between rounds. so, during round 1 its would be ABC vs. DEF, the second round would be DBC vs. AEF ... etc.

Get rid of the unwarranted assumptions about the alliance switching idea... there could be an infinite amount of meanings for it. It could be an alliance configuration we have never even dreamt of yet. ;)

[Elgin Clock]

What? Did someone mention a drum before? Explain this comment!
Just for you phrontist LINK (http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/showthread.php?t=22406&highlight=guess+hint)

[Arefin Bari]

well... I think it is still head to head... if only 1 team is switching out at a time, then you still have to work hard together with your slighty-different-alliance to defeat the other.

Also, the alliance switching may not occur during the match itself... perhaps the alliances change between rounds. so, during round 1 its would be ABC vs. DEF, the second round would be DBC vs. AEF ... etc.

if this is the scenario...

"during round 1 its would be ABC vs. DEF, the second round would be DBC vs. AEF"

How would they decide whose the winner (regionals, national) and whose the finalist?

[Greg Needel]

i think we are missing something very obvious....if both of the people are baseball players.....maybe baseballs are the scoring objects this year.

[phrontist]

Hey, don't forget the drivers could be in the center.

[Dr.Bot]

Reprhrasing the clue:

"Wearing purple (and/or six sided prism glasses) look closely between Pi (circle 3.14), and two tripple play makers.

Sorry, don't expect to see a radical change in the number of teams competing. There are still four channels on the radios, so I don't think six at a time is possible, and three at a time is not efficient. I also don't see a major redesign in the field of play. It is darn expensive to throw out what you have already.

Scoring a tripple play or having do arrange something in a way that three out of four things are in a circle is perhaps a possibility. Another gruesome though - perhaps a version of the "Towers of Hanoi" puzzle where alliances have to arrange blue and red (makes purple = amythest) circles on three of four (triple play) sticks.

Other inferences - this is obvoiusly a clue from a baseball trivia crazy fan. As such if this person also designed the game, we can bet the statistics and math will proably play a big part in figuring out the score.

[Dested]

i think we are missing something very obvious....if both of the people are baseball players.....maybe baseballs are the scoring objects this year.

That'd be sick!

[Kevin Casper]

i think we are missing something very obvious....if both of the people are baseball players.....maybe baseballs are the scoring objects this year.

Could also be bases. They are both known for triple plays. Perhaps there are 3 bases.

Pi you and me I think suggests a cirular something inbetween the bases.

[Charley]

Hey, don't forget the drivers could be in the center.


That'd be pretty hard to see. Especially with more bots on the field.

[Arefin Bari]

Reprhrasing the clue:

"Wearing purple (and/or six sided prism glasses) look closely between Pi (circle 3.14), and two tripple play makers.

Sorry, don't expect to see a radical change in the number of teams competing. There are still four channels on the radios, so I don't think six at a time is possible, and three at a time is not efficient. I also don't see a major redesign in the field of play. It is darn expensive to throw out what you have already.

Scoring a tripple play or having do arrange something in a way that three out of four things are in a circle is perhaps a possibility. Another gruesome though - perhaps a version of the "Towers of Hanoi" puzzle where alliances have to arrange blue and red (makes purple = amythest) circles on three of four (triple play) sticks.

Other inferences - this is obvoiusly a clue from a baseball trivia crazy fan. As such if this person also designed the game, we can bet the statistics and math will proably play a big part in figuring out the score.

alright, i can agree with this. so not 3 vs. 3 (because of the channels). So is it more than 4 human players?
:ahh:

[phrontist]

That'd be pretty hard to see. Especially with more bots on the field.

I don't think there will be more bots. Thats a stupid change to make. It shall be four.

[Steve W]

Rumor has it that they have been making changes on the radios this year.

[phrontist]

Rumor has it that they have been making changes on the radios this year.
Source?

[Elgin Clock]

Given the fact that the Israeli regional capped at 12 teams this year, and 12 is the number that would lead to a succesful ladder of a 3 alliance game, this is what I believe will happen.

Alliances will be 3 large, and thus have a good ladder for a 12 team regional.

Of course.. a 2 team alliance would work too.. but meh.. :p

[phrontist]

Pi is a number between George and John. Well, I have no clue, but here are their stats:

George Burns (http://www.baseball-reference.com/b/burnsge01.shtml)
John Neun (http://www.baseball-reference.com/n/neunjo01.shtml)

[Corey Balint]

Hey, don't forget the drivers could be in the center.
I really dont see this happening, unless all the robots on the field work together, because it ruins some of the strategy and team work that has to go on. Also, the driver will have a much harder time looking at all parts of the field. It would also ruin communication building because the teams would not be able to talk to each other as much before/duing the match.

[Kims Robot]

Well, this is likely a shot in the dark due to some of the past posts (ie 4 channel radios and such), but we are all just guessing :)

So I went with the 3 theme, and I liked the red+blue=purple, and that it is a baseball hint.... so here goes:

There are 3 alliances on the field. (between pi, you & me = 3, triple plays = 3) etc.

The field is 6 sided (amythst 6 sided crystals)

The scoring objects are baseballs (John & George)

The center is a pyramid (cleveland rock & roll hall of fame, amythst, etc)

The alliance partners are broken up and CANNOT work together other than to score/defend (unassisted!)

And the pyramid is made of plexiglass (amythst glasses) with the top center of it out (I know that goes back to the old rumor, but there has to be somewhere to score!)

Check out the drawing I made :)

[Paradox1350]

This is weird and probably an unrelated coincidence, but George Burns has a rose named after him, and Royal Amythyst is also the name of a rose.

[Jaine Perotti]

if this is the scenario...

"during round 1 its would be ABC vs. DEF, the second round would be DBC vs. AEF"

How would they decide whose the winner (regionals, national) and whose the finalist?Very good question.

Maybe, matches will start out with ABC vs. DEF, switch it to something else for the second match/part of a round, and then have it go back to the original configuration.

But the blurring of blue vs. red could mean other things too besides alliance switching. Maybe this means that in order to score points a certain way, the two alliances will have to work together somehow.

And back to deciding who wins with alliance switching...

Maybe alliances would somehow be determined autonomously at the beginning or end of the match.

...or...

Maybe all 6 robots would be working alone to score points during the first half of the match... say with 6 different goals... and then during the second half, alliances would be revealed and you would have to scramble to get the goals with the most points.


...or...

Maybe the winners would be determined in a completely atypical way from what we are used to. During a round, teams will be advanced/ eliminated based on how many points they have earned total in all their matches... so basically the top three(or however many) scorers would advance to the next elimination round. This won't eliminate alliances however, because alliances will still exist, but they will be 'shared' so to speak and switched around...

...or...

Maybe there will be some red robots/goals, and some blue robots/goals... and then a wildcard 'purple' robot/goal ... which could go to either red or blue alliance. How it would be given to an alliance has many different possibilities. Maybe, if it were an object or a goal, it would be something that robots would have to fight over to get in a scoring zone perhaps. If its a robot, then maybe you dont know what alliance it will be on until the beginning of the round.

I know alot of these ideas are completely crazy... but like I said... get rid of the unwarranted assumption! There could be MANY ways in which this could work!

-- Jaine

[phrontist]

This is weird and probably an unrelated coincidence, but George Burns has a rose named after him, and Royal Amythyst is also the name of a rose.

*strokes chin* <vincent price>Innnnnteresting</vincent price>

[Billfred]

There are still four channels on the radios, so I don't think six at a time is possible, and three at a time is not efficient.
Actually, IFI can define new channels for the robots to drive on, thus allowing four fields at a time at the Championship (and a fifth, if you count the NASA field in the pit--but I don't know how the reception works)

However, you do have a point in that controlling six robots means some fields would have to go in Atlanta. And that means more teams per division...and that means fewer matches per team...

[Rocketboy]

Intriguing.. I wonder if " between Pi, you and me" has to do with how the IR affects the primary objective of the game. Perhaps 3 comes into play there also.

[Paradox1350]

Rememeber, during last year's Kickoff, when they were talking about the IR beacon's, Dave mentioned that they were stationary, however that had no bearing on THIS year's game.

He implied that there would be moving IR beacons this year.

And they really, really like the autonomous mode stuff. And last year people began to build their strategies around NOT knocking off the ball in autonomous mode. Half the teams I saw didn't do ANYTHING during autonomous mode.

So I bet they're going to make autonomous mode more important this year, somehow. And that involves IR Beacons that are moving.

[Guest]

This is weird and probably an unrelated coincidence, but George Burns has a rose named after him, and Royal Amythyst is also the name of a rose.Googling Amythyst and George Burns does bring this Rose link as the most prevalent (but that's just searching the internet).

[Franchesca]

Yes I agree. Looking into FIRST History (http://www.firstwiki.org/FIRST_Frenzy:_Raising_the_Bar) , the astute reader will note that FIRST expects feilds to last for 5 years. The number 5 is also visible in John Neun's user image. This year would be the current feild's sixth if we were to keep it.

I think that since the number 3 keeps coming up, it refers to a third completely different field. Has anyone thought about the possibility of a baseball field shape? ... Could be a possibility :rolleyes: .

Anyway, I think that this years game definitely has a different field not a revival of an old one. If they were going to rotate fields every 5 years, rotating 2 different fields doesn't seem worth it ... :yikes: but that's just me.

[Jaine Perotti]

This is weird and probably an unrelated coincidence, but George Burns has a rose named after him, and Royal Amythyst is also the name of a rose.Hmmm... what about the Compass rose? Doesn't that have 4(or 8) points to it?
(I realize that this is a bit obscure lol)

[sanddrag]

Aren't the lenses of the Banner sensors sort of a rose color?

[Tom Bottiglieri]

Im thinking when they made this hint, they expected people to take the part about Amethyst at face value, and jump to the conclusion there is a 6 sided field. I am also thinking that there is a much deeper meaning to that.

I like phontrists' train of thought with the whole Beatles thing. I'll keep thinking about this clue and post what I think when I am almost sure.

[CourtneyB]

All i can say is... WHAT????lol im so confused...im waiting patiently for kickoff to come to find out wht the game it lol my brain is hurting lol :ahh:
-Court-

[Arefin Bari]

All i can say is... WHAT????lol im so confused...im waiting patiently for kickoff to come to find out wht the game it lol my brain is hurting lol :ahh:
-Court-


Are you serious that you can wait PATIENTLY and not go crazy to know the game till the 8th?


anyways back to the thread... since "3" is coming back up. is it 3 major scoring objects? like 180 pounds mobile goals from back in 2002? or something similar to that?

[Bill Gold]

Maybe 3v3 with a rectangular field (made wider to accomodate the third alliance station and alternate for queuing, and possibly 6' longer to accomodate the added width), and a round scoring goal made out of steel/aluminum/pvc (the Pi -> pie) in the middle of the field between the two alliances (you and me)?

There has to be something more, though... either more goals or a ramp, teeter-totter, steps, maybe even additional but less important goals, etc.

[Ted Boucher]

Hmmm... what about the Compass rose? Doesn't that have 4(or 8) points to it?
(I realize that this is a bit obscure lol)

A compass rose can have 4, 8, or 16 points in it......

The compass rose aids in a person using a map to find direction... Maybe something with the IR sensors.... idk random thought

Edit: My post in the other thread http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/showpost.php?p=311506&postcount=4

[funstuff]

There was a book titled Life of Pi. Pi was the nickname of a 16 year old Indian boy named after a swimming pool who dabbles in three different religions (Christianity, Islam, Hinduism), and is trapped on a life boat with a tiger, orangutan, and zebra (it ends up being just him and the tiger) in the middle of the Pacific Ocean for close to a year.

So... 3 very different animals, 3 religions, and 16 years.

This generally supports the 3 teams theory(or alliances of 3).

But I guess we'll just have to wait and see.

[phrontist]

I think IR is back to spite me, time to start thinking about it again.

[Michael Leicht]

i have a feeling that the field with be the same as it was last year just to save some money. but what is inside the the field will be diferent.

[miketwalker]

Here's another rendition of the Red + Blue = Purple idea...

Alliances stay the same throughout the match (I personally think it would be hard to change partners during the actual match, especially with strategy, but who knows). However, if lets say there are 2 scoring "zones" for you to place whatever objects give you points, and mid-way through the match, the zones "swap". So, whatever objects you put in yours, you have to pull out and put in the other zone and the opposite alliance vice versa. Thus, forcing both teams to be defensive, offensive, and fast... plus very much alliance cooperation to accomplish the task. So, no scoring zone truly belongs to any alliance. Heck, maybe they don't even tell you which scoring zone is yours till the match is going. Just an interesting twist I figured I'd throw in.

[Elgin Clock]

Get ready for some more arm designs..

Could it really be this easy?

Pi
U
Me
Amethyst = (6 year anniversary stone)

=
PUMA
6 axis Robot designed for use in assembly, material handling, machine loading and other things (http://www.ar2.com/puma.html)

Of course, this is the non-obvious PUMA reference, the first one being the Sports company who made the official Yellow Size 5 soccer balls in 2002 for the FIRST Zone Zeal competition shown below.
http://www.chiefdelphi.com/pics/bin/1010360487ball.jpg

[Andy Grady]

Alright...here is my take...

With Amethist being of a purple color, two baseball players who performed unassisted triple plays, and Pi between you and me, they gave us quite a complex clue this year.

1. First Amethist colored glasses...I think this is gonna be a simplistic portion. Three teams on the field at once, Red, Blue, and Purple.

2. Baseball players are a given...Triple play means 3 teams. The question is will it be alliances or no? I dont think FIRST would want to get rid of alliances, but I am going to go out on a limb and say the unassisted portion of the triple play means there will be the triumphant return of 1 v 1 v 1 (as a FIRST history buff, I love the idea...but I dont know if I want FIRST without alliances)...or it could just mean that three teams per alliance have absolutely no ability to interact with each other.

3. Pi is associated with circles. I faintly remember hearing that IR sensors were going to be a necessity this year. I'm guessing that there is some form of circle in the middle of the field with IR helping guide you to it...probably because of a barrier which you can't see.

or....

We are about to see the return of Torroid Terror with IR sensors involved!

I can only hope ;)

-Andy Grady

P.S. Where are my footballs Dave?!?!

[MisterX]

Thanks Ted Boucher for pointing out the Burns thing I cant believ I missed that....
Let me focus on season 8 shall we were it is strongly argued that Monty Burns is at his strongest strength compared to other seasons
During an opening couch scene of one such episode it is a direct parody of the previoulsy mentioned album cover, being very closly similar to the animation of it as scene in "The Making of Sgt. Pepper"
It is during this season too that Homer takes his trip after eatting Wax (need I say that several characters in the album cover are wax figures) On this trip lyrics from the Beatles son "I am a Walrus" are quoted
Also some believe that Barney's belch during the "trip" is a reference to the final chord in "A Day in the Life"

However my main point of season 8 is that the PYRAMID Homer climbs to see the coyote looks exactly like the one in "Yellow Submarine" now, maybe we to might need to climb the pyramid (previously stated by many as a field piece)

edit: Also I just had pointed out to me (thank you Justin) that in Season 12 (FIRST began in 1992 and this clue came out 12 years later) the Beatles make a cameo dressed in their Sgt. Peppers garb to recruit teens to join the army a.k.a. ALLIANCE!

[phrontist]

Everyone seems to be ignoring the fact that this year is going to be called FIRST Frenzy: Something. Now what was unusual about last years game, in the context of all the others. All the elements were recycled. The kickballs, the big yellow ball, the goals, the bar: all from past years. Now look at the games that last years game didn't have anything in common with:


Stack Attack
Toroid Terror
Hexagon Havoc


Remember that spotlight about one-one-one-one-one-one? Maybe that's what we'll have? 6 teams on a hexagonal feild! w00t!

[Joel J]

With all these interpretations of the clue, I still can't get beyond the between. I mean, with all the attention to grammar on these forums, and in the general community, I would say they would definitely notice using between for three items. Am I wrong here?

So.. "between Pi, You and Me," with Pi being one item, and "You and Me" being the second? Maybe that changes things a bit, and adds credit to the triple play ideas. I dunno.

[Levin571]

Mu in lower case greek looks like a U
Me is John Neun speaking and Neun is like the greek letter Nu
and between these letters and Pi in the greek alphabet are both Xi and Omicron

Any ideas come from this?

[JoeXIII'007]

Look at this bloody album cover people! John Lennon (Neun), known for his rosy specs, and George Harrison (Burns) have a drum between them. A circle! Pi! Muhahahaha! George Burns was in the movie the beatles made about this album. This makes perfect sense. Everything is coming together.


Phrontist, the album cover you're talking about (and had an attachment for) is from The Beatles and the title of it is "Sgt. Peppers Lonely Hearts Club Band". There are 13 songs on the soundtrack:
1.-(The title)
2.-With a Little Help From my Friends
3.-Lucy in the sky of Diamonds
4.-Getting Better
5.-Fixing a Hole
6.-She's Leaving Home
7.-Being for the Benefit of Mr. Kite!
8.-Within You Without You
9.-When I'm Sixty-Four (64)
10.-Lovely Rita
11.-Good Morning Good Morning
12.(Title) Reprise
13. A Day in the Life

It looks like a lot of this album from the cover to the title of the songs could in fact be FIRST related. Good Lead Phrontist!

Now for sure, we're definitely having a Hexagonal field. FIRST has done it before, and they sure will do it again. Probably this time around.

(Sorry if this repeated anything)

-Joe

[Guest]

Everyone seems to be ignoring the fact that this year is going to be called FIRST Frenzy: Something. Now what was unusual about last years game, in the context of all the others. All the elements were recycled. The kickballs, the big yellow ball, the goals, the bar: all from past years. Now look at the games that last years game didn't have anything in common with:

Stack Attack
Toroid Terror
Hexagon Havoc

Remember that spotlight about one-one-one-one-one-one? Maybe that's what we'll have? 6 teams on a hexagonal feild! w00t!
Following this train of thought, you would have the barrier in the middle of the field from Stack Attack. That fits with the "something" preventing people from interacting with each other.

[phrontist]

Thanks Ted Boucher for pointing out the Burns thing I cant believ I missed that....
Let me focus on season 8 shall we were it is strongly argued that Monty Burns is at his strongest strength compared to other seasons
During an opening couch scene of one such episode it is a direct parody of the previoulsy mentioned album cover, being very closly similar to the animation of it as scene in "The Making of Sgt. Pepper"
It is during this season too that Homer takes his trip after eatting Wax (need I say that several characters in the album cover are wax figures) On this trip lyrics from the Beatles son "I am a Walrus" are quoted
Also some believe that Barney's belch during the "trip" is a reference to the final chord in "A Day in the Life"

However my main point of season 8 is that the PYRAMID Homer climbs to see the coyote looks exactly like the one in "Yellow Submarine" now, maybe we to might need to climb the pyramid (previously stated by many as a field piece)

edit: Also I just had pointed out to me (thank you Justin) that in Season 12 (FIRST began in 1992 and this clue came out 12 years later) the Beatles make a cameo dressed in their Sgt. Peppers garb to recruit teens to join the army a.k.a. ALLIANCE!

I just saw yellow submarine yesterday, and if I remember correctly it's a zigguratish pyrmaid, with multiple levels, like pyramids stacked atop one another. Oddly enough Amethyst crystals are essentially a bunch of pyramidal forms atop one another:

The model for the crystal consists of approximately 450 transparent, intersecting polyhedra. We use volume ray tracing to modulate the color and amount of light trasmitted through the crystal, according to a 3d rgba texture. For this modulation, we used a random turbulence function, and added dark splotches (yes, that's the technical term) by increasing opacity along random walks through the 3-d texture.

Taken from here (http://www.cs.princeton.edu/~smr/cs348b-96/)

Maybe we'll get to climb up a ziggurat!

[Steve Howland]

The greek symbol Xi, as referred to in Levin571's post, looks like this:
http://www.mathacademy.com/pr/prime/articles/greek/gr11.gif. This would support the barrier idea, especially the capital Xi.

[phrontist]

Phrontist, the album cover you're talking about (and had an attachment for) is from The Beatles and the title of it is "Sgt. Peppers Lonely Hearts Club Band". There are 13 songs on the soundtrack:
1.-(The title)
2.-With a Little Help From my Friends
3.-Lucy in the sky of Diamonds
4.-Getting Better
5.-Fixing a Hole
6.-She's Leaving Home
7.-Being for the Benefit of Mr. Kite!
8.-Within You Without You
9.-When I'm Sixty-Four (64)
10.-Lovely Rita
11.-Good Morning Good Morning
12.(Title) Reprise
13. A Day in the Life

It looks like a lot of this album from the cover to the title of the songs could in fact be FIRST related. Good Lead Phrontist!

Now for sure, we're definitely having a Hexagonal field. FIRST has done it before, and they sure will do it again. Probably this time around.

(Sorry if this repeated anything)

-Joe

Fixing a Hole - Hole in the center?
Lucy in the sky of Diamonds - Diamonds man! Diamonds! "Girl with kaliedescope eyes"! John lennon! Rose glasses! Muhahaha!
With a Little Help From my Friends - Alliances!

Oh, and I knew bloody well the album title.

[roberthan]

I have serval theories:


since both baseball player made unassited triple plays, maybe instead of having a timed autonomous mode, the autonomous mode will continue for 30 sec until certain condition are achieved
maybe just free for all with three robots or three teams 2vs. 2 vs.2
the purple glasses might mean if you look beyond the red & blue teams you might see something

[Levin571]

Another possible idea is that even though red and blue are against eachother they have to work together in order to complete one or more of the objectives on the field

[phrontist]

Ooooooh! Of course this ties into the big beatles conspiracy theory, with all it's hints. Remember, on Sgt. Pepper these lyrics appear:

So let me introduce to you, the one and only Billy Shears!

Billy Shears was, of course, Ringo's stand in. But a lot of people thought he was william campbell, winner of the Paul look alike contest. He was a FAKE, or dare I say...

PLACEBO!

Oh yes, and that would mesh nicely with my last post! (The one about borrowing from previous years)

[Elgin Clock]

Mu in lower case greek looks like a U
Me is John Neun speaking and Neun is like the greek letter Nu
and between these letters and Pi in the greek alphabet are both Xi and Omicron

Any ideas come from this?Sure.. Unnoficial FIRST Fraternity (http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/showthread.php?t=27525&goto=nextoldest). Delta Omicron Xi. DOX
Freaky...

[phrontist]

Sure.. Unnoficial FIRST Fraternity (http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/showthread.php?t=27525&goto=nextoldest). Delta Omicron Xi. DOX
Freaky...

GASP!

[Guest]

Ooooooh! Of course this ties into the big beatles conspiracy theory, with all it's hints. Remember, on Sgt. Pepper these lyrics appear:



Billy Shears was, of course, Ringo's stand in. But a lot of people thought he was william campbell, winner of the Paul look alike contest. He was a FAKE, or dare I say...

PLACEBO!

Oh yes, and that would mesh nicely with my last post! (The one about borrowing from previous years)
Can you clarify the link to your last post?

------

I wonder if the FIRST game designers look through our speculative posts and have a fit of laughter.

[Jaine Perotti]

While wearing Amethyst colored glasses...What if the actual drivers station wall was purple...?

...if there are certain objects on the playing field that were purple, they would then be difficult to see.

...look closely...
hmm... very interesting indeed.

[Bcahn836]

i mean this Beatles conspiracy does kinda hold up look at last years game hint Led Zeplin lyrics

[Pin Man]

I think its pretty clear from the shape of amethyst gems and from the triple-play clue that we are going back to the hexagon fields with 3 teams. Now for the "Pi, you, and me" part...

"pi, you and me" maybe something like one team vs another team vs like a FIRST made robot?

[Elgin Clock]

I wonder if the FIRST game designers look through our speculative posts and have a fit of laughter.
Look through the posts - Yes.

Fit of laughter? Idk.. maybe?

All this guessing is making me want to ask just one simple question.

Dave, how is that animation coming along? :D
Are you spending a 3rd straight winter break behind the screen of a computer running 3D Studio Max making some more funny robots do things that defy gravity?

[Tom Bottiglieri]

this is interesting...

http://www.waleapparatus.com/details/11_2365.asp

ACE (Amethyst Contrast Enhancer) glass can be used to "optimize the readability" of television displays under high ambient light conditions.

The banner sensors were susceptible to malfunction due to ambient light.

[dlavery]

Look through the posts - Yes.

Fit of laughter? Idk.. maybe?

All this guessing is making me want to ask just one simple question.

Dave, how is that animation coming along? :D
Are you spending a 3rd straight winter break behind the screen of a computer running 3D Studio Max making some more funny robots do things that defy gravity?

I don't use 3D Studio Max, because I refuse to use a PC. It's all done with Lightwave on a Mac.

-dave

[Pin Man]

also another thought... Maybe when they say PI, they mean something along the lines of a circle... like a circular field...

[Max Lobovsky]

"pi, you and me" maybe something like one team vs another team vs like a FIRST made robot?
Ah, I didn't even consider the three elements in that quote. That does seem to indicate 3 players on the field, and I think its definitley possible for FIRST to make the 6 (well probably 12 for spares) robots neccesary.

[Paradox1350]

I wonder if the FIRST game designers look through our speculative posts and have a fit of laughter.


Most def. We know Dave Lavery looks on the forums. If I was someone high up in FIRST and knew what was going on, I'd be reading this myself and laughing up a storm.


EDIT: And Dave himself proves my point between the time that I started writing this post, and the time that I hit submit . . .

Good luck finishing it up, Dave. Last year's animation was absolutely awesome ^_^

[Hieb]

Just to reinforce the baseball interpretation, most of Dave's recent posts, at least in the YMTC threads, have started with baseball analogies.

[Lil' Lavery]

Look at this bloody album cover people! John Lennon (Neun), known for his rosy specs, and George Harrison (Burns) have a drum between them. A circle! Pi! Muhahahaha! George Burns was in the movie the beatles made about this album. This makes perfect sense. Everything is coming together.

Pi - The Drum
You - George
Me - John

Forms a triangle!!!!
In the center of which is something they are holding!

What are they holding?!

UPDATE: They're all musical instruments. What does that mean? The trumpet seems closest to the center. Trumpets are used to wake people up. Maybe waking up is leaving auto mode. Whatever the case, I'm positive Lavery was indicating this album cover. It's just so like him. First Led Zep, now the Fab Four. And hey, he mentioned the fab four in another clue! Let me find it.

My dad has 832 songs by the Beatles on iTunes and owns every single beatles album released in the US and the UK. Interesting.....

[M. Hicken]

my vote is the hexagonal field

Crystal system: Hexagonal-R; 32 (trigonal-trapezohedral)
is the structural shape of amethyst as per
http://www.mineralminers.com/html/ameminfo.htm

based on the nature of First, i dont think they would do away with the teamwork. While 3 vs 3 would make staging a bit more hectic, it woud make the days run faster, in theory

just my $.02

[Tom Bottiglieri]

My dad has 832 songs by the Beatles on iTunes and owns every single beatles album released in the US and the UK. Interesting.....
I thought I had caught Dave pirating music. but he owns them so I guess he's off the hook..

Until next time dave does something of legal "blur",
Tom

[bigqueue]

This is an offical game clue for the 2005 season from a FIRST e-mail blast on December 30, 2004. It is documented in this thread (http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=32009). It has been brought into the Rumor Mill for discussion to keep the E-Mail Blast Archive in a more pure state...Any ideas?


They both also had stolen base records a few years apart....I don't know if this means anything.

Check out:
http://www.ilbaseball.com/sb_rec.html

-Quentin
:ahh:

[bigqueue]

My dad has 832 songs by the Beatles on iTunes and owns every single beatles album released in the US and the UK. Interesting.....


Perhaps if you play the game backwards, it plays another clue? (can you even do that with iTunes?)

[Bcahn836]

what about the game objects being baseballs and not kickballs or boxes?

[663.keith]

well a slice of pie (pi) forms a triangle, like a pyramid!

OK.... now that I got that off my back, I see two interpretations for the word between, one being between as something in the middle of these three things, or between as something in common.

my guess that the between refers to something in common, in this case, three. I do not think that a three on three alliance is conceivable because of all the logistic problems talked about in the the center is out topic. Saying that, I think that the three will be something to do with scoring objects, possibly three different types of things to score, or three places to score.

Also during the kickoff, Dave mentioned that the IR sensors weren't necessary this year (first Frenzy), but not the next (this 2005 season). I can imagine that the autonomous mode will be extremely important, possibly having the capability to score points during autonomous mode

just my $.02

[Arefin Bari]

Also during the kickoff, Dave mentioned that the IR sensors weren't necessary this year (first Frenzy), but not the next (this 2005 season). I can imagine that the autonomous mode will be extremely important, possibly having the capability to score points during autonomous mode

just my $.02


But didnt robots score points during past two year's Autonomous mode. 2003 (stack attack) robots who broke the wall had boxes in thier zone after the end of autonomous mode. Past season 2004 (FIRST frenzy) team 190 hung during autonomous (50 points).

Baseballs, i am not really supporting that idea, (this might sound crazy, cause i dont think FIRST will make a game to throw baseballs around unless the whole field is in a cage and all the drivers and human players are wearing helmets and gaurds) i am thinking about safety. what if a robot has the capibility of throw the ball somewhere? wouldnt that be a safety issue?

[Pin Man]

well a slice of pie (pi) forms a triangle, like a pyramid!

OK.... now that I got that off my back, I see two interpretations for the word between, one being between as something in the middle of these three things, or between as something in common.

my guess that the between refers to something in common, in this case, three. I do not think that a three on three alliance is conceivable because of all the logistic problems talked about in the the center is out topic. Saying that, I think that the three will be something to do with scoring objects, possibly three different types of things to score, or three places to score.

Also during the kickoff, Dave mentioned that the IR sensors weren't necessary this year (first Frenzy), but not the next (this 2005 season). I can imagine that the autonomous mode will be extremely important, possibly having the capability to score points during autonomous mode

just my $.02

I hope AUTO mode isn't going to be extremely important... For the passed years our robot has done next to nothing in AUTO mode... We try so hard to get it right but we just beat our robot during the comps and everything gets off... Like we don't go straight or whatever... OH NO!!!

[Corey Balint]

Fin, I think what he meant was that you could only get these points during autonomous, and at no other time during the match. The past two years, you could score those points at any point during the match. Maybe now, you have one shot to do it in autonomous and thats it.

[Rocketboy]

Jeez, I'm having some difficulty compiling all of these ideas into my mind.

My theory lies with the hexagon field and a ziggurat shape center.

Somehow IR beacon(s) are going to allow a robot to guide itself to a scoring opportunity or to a prominent location on the field.

I'm having problems with the teams or no teams issue. I don't think FIRST will easily abandon alliances. However, unless a large field is invented, having six robots on the playing field at once could be problematic. I foresee mass destruction if the competition is as aggressive as last year. :ahh:

[Ted Boucher]

However, unless a large field is invented, having six robots on the playing field at once could be problematic.

I HIGHLY doubt that FIRST would make the field larger than is usually is. Regional locations like UTC can't take a field that is much larger than the normal field and I am sure other locations have the same problem .

[phrontist]

Can you clarify the link to your last post?

------

I wonder if the FIRST game designers look through our speculative posts and have a fit of laughter.

I simply meant that it would make sense, if they were borrowing from previous years, to bring back the placebo.

[Rocketboy]

Okay then... I'm now more confident about there being three teams on the field. :)



Now just to start theorizing on drivetrain options...

[Arefin Bari]

Fin, I think what he meant was that you could only get these points during autonomous, and at no other time during the match. The past two years, you could score those points at any point during the match. Maybe now, you have one shot to do it in autonomous and thats it.


FIRST wouldn't do that to us. only one shot to score points (autonomous), NO WAY. seeing all the problems teams had with autonomous previous years, i dont think we will see this kind of day (score only during autonomous) anytime soon.

[Steve Horn]

I think the field will stay the same, even though a lot of people say it will be a hexxagon shape. With the same field as the past few years, FIRST could have three or four teams on each side of the field at a time. I think FIRST will have a 3 v 3 setup, with three teams on each side. In the middle of the field the robots might have to hit an IR beacon for drive teams to drive robots around.

Just my $.02 after thinking about this for awhile.

[abeD]

since "3" is coming back up. is it 3 major scoring objects? like 180 pounds mobile goals from back in 2002? or something similar to that?


I tend to agree here...Most likely 3 of one thing or 3 different ways to score


And the IR beacons are very likely to be in some twisted way necessary in this years game. The hexagonal field and 6 teams at a time seem a little bit to big of a change to be realistic.

[Rocketboy]

FIRST wouldn't do that to us. only one shot to score points (autonomous), NO WAY. seeing all the problems teams had with autonomous previous years, i dont think we will see this kind of day (score only during autonomous) anytime soon.


I don't know... I think the idea is almost logical. It wouldn't have to be major points like the fifty we could earn for the bar last year, but maybe a solid 10-20 points for having the ability to accomplish something during that short time period would be good.

Besides, the only reason nobody works harder on their autonomous programming is because they havent been given a significant reason to.

[team222badbrad]

You're guess is as good as mine.... :ahh:

The only question I have is:

No early BOM this year?

Getting an early Bill of Materials is much better way for me to come up with ideas/clues!

Keep on guessing; I guess that is the only thing we can do until Jan 8th ;)

[Yan Wang]

I also don't see a major redesign in the field of play. It is darn expensive to throw out what you have already.

I don't think that a field change is out of the question. Certainly it'd be expensive, but didn't FIRST just raise first regional registration cost this year by $1000? Multiply that by 1,000-ish teams...

Many current field components could still be used over, such as barriers, parts of the player station setups, carpet, IRs, etc.

[Pin Man]

1,000,000... That's a good chunk of change...

[drews]

Pi - if spelled pie is round - maybe a round field.
Combine Red and Blue (the color of the teams of FIRST) and you get purple - or the color of amethyst.

3 sets of teams on a circular field.

[Paradox1350]

How long have the size limitations of the bot been the same? If they were to keep the field size the same, and make the challenge less complicated than last year (as this past year's challenege was WAY more complicated than Stack Attack) then they would keep the field size the same, shrink the robots down a smidge, and use 3 v 3 aliances.

Do I think that will happen? No. But I think it's possible.

[Kit Gerhart]

George H. Burns -- Sept. 14, 1923

is there another george burns? other then baseball?
There was a George Burns who was a famous comedian (with Gracie Allan) who lived to be about 110.

[Jaine Perotti]

hmm...
John Neun and George Burns were both first basemen. In fact, they were the only first basemen to ever pull off an unassisted triple play.

I think that there are 12 other players that have made unnassisted triple plays. Why these two people and not any of the others? Is it because they were both first basemen?

...does this mean anything?

[laditek]

While I also can't imagine FIRST abandoning alliances altogether, it may be worth noting that John Neun and George Burns are notable in baseball for having performed unassisted triple plays.


What about the time limit increasing to 3 minutes?????

[David Guzman]

That could be possible... :confused:
If it was 3 vs 3 then that would increase the # of team per match which would decrase the time spent in matches. This could lead to more time for each match.

Just a guess but, I dont know. My head hurts. :ahh:

David

[Steve W]

I don't see a time limit increase. I can see 2x2x2 or 3x3. If 2x2x2 then you could have red and blue scoring objects and the third team would have to score equal of red and blue + purple. Autonomous mode at the beginning gives you your team color. Need to use some sort of sensors to get there. Maybe 50 point bonus at start if autonomous is completed. :confused:

[meaubry]

Great clue - very cryptic, I love it!
Me - It just sealed the deal for me. I'm sticking with the Beatles connection, between John and George is Ringo! Looks like its either a "ring toss" game or maybe we put something through a ring to score. Okay - how about we get to toss "pies" through a "ring"-o at Dave! Just kidding - have fun with the clue. I'm serious about "rings".

[Kit Gerhart]

One aspect of the pre-1999 game I don't expect to return is the "two strikes and you're out" format. For those who haven't been around FIRST that long, in '98 and before, there were "seeding matches" that determined where the teams were placed in the matching chart, but the actual competition was double elimination, with three teams per match. There was one winner and two losers per match, so it worked out that nearly half of the teams were eliminated after two matches. From the quarter finals onward, the matches were one on one with a best of three match format in each round.

Winning under the old system was really, really good, as I had the good fortune to experience with TechnoKats in '98, but there were way too many teams who put in all that effort, only to be eliminated after two matches.

[Pin Man]

They would never increase the time in my opinion... Time is already strapped at competitions... Unless.................THEY ADDED IN A WENSDAY FOR COMPETITION!!! hahaha but that wouldn't happen... Wishful thinking... But like Red vs Blue vs Purple? I doubt it... They would keep it Red vs Blue vs White (the colors of first) like it use to be when it was 1 vs 1 vs 1...

Totally off topic: I was thinking how crazy it would be if FIRST made us put video camera's on our robots and made us go in tunnels and such... That wouldn't happen either but it would be cool...

[Swampdude]

OK how's this:

2 hexagonal fields
If you take the current 48' long playing field, plus the length of the drivers stations and bisect it - you could fit 2 hexagon fields in that same space.
NOTE: these 2 fields from above would look like Hexagonal sunglasses.

These 2 fields are run simultaneously. On each field are 3 teams competing against the other fields 3 teams, hence 6 teams running at once. Each field has teams working together hence the amethyst (purple) blue red mix.

In "between" these 2 fields are the drivers stations "you and me". I guess 3 stations facing the center on each field.

We are assembling a "pi" (pie) against the clock and the other field. 3 wedge pieces, then doing something else, but all this against the clock, we have to hit a button to stop the timer to indicate the task is complete, and "we" beat the other field "you". Drivers are back to back, going as fast as they can.

We're going to be building smaller bots this year. Maybe that's why we're getting less motors.

[Pat McCarthy]

If one were to don amethyst colored glasses, would one be able to see IR beams? ;)

Also, when scoring baseball, first base is position number three.

My thoughts.

[Pin Man]

OK how's this:

2 hexagonal fields
If you take the current 48' long playing field, plus the length of the drivers stations and bisect it - you could fit 2 hexagon fields in that same space.
NOTE: these 2 fields from above would look like Hexagonal sunglasses.

These 2 fields are run simultaneously. On each field are 3 teams competing against the other fields 3 teams, hence 6 teams running at once. Each field has teams working together hence the amethyst (purple) blue red mix.

In "between" these 2 fields are the drivers stations "you and me". I guess 3 stations facing the center on each field.

We are assembling a "pi" (pie) against the clock and the other field. 3 wedge pieces, then doing something else, but all this against the clock, we have to hit a button to stop the timer to indicate the task is complete, and "we" beat the other field "you". Drivers are back to back, going as fast as they can.

We're going to be building smaller bots this year. Maybe that's why we're getting less motors.
hmm... I'm not sure... I see what you're saying... But I think when they say Pi they are referring to cirlces or 3.14............... Or how about like 2 vs 2... One red team and one blue team per field maybe?

[Karthik1]

IR is back defiantly Dave said that in his speech at nationals. IR is going to be big for sure. The Multiplier is back defiantly. It could be like a 3x (maybe). First will not get rid of alliances. There will be two or three team alliances. We wont go back to 1v1v1 because we have so many teams this would simply take too long. First will only increase the number of teams on the field if they were to change it. There is a good possibility that there will be baseballs on the field, and something in the middle of the field that is hard to see.

Some important quotes

Scoring a tripple play or having do arrange something in a way that three out of four things are in a circle is perhaps a possibility. Another gruesome though - perhaps a version of the "Towers of Hanoi" puzzle where alliances have to arrange blue and red (makes purple = amythest) circles on three of four (triple play) sticks.

Intriguing.. I wonder if " between Pi, you and me" has to do with how the IR affects the primary objective of the game. Perhaps 3 comes into play there also.

Rememeber, during last year's Kickoff, when they were talking about the IR beacon's, Dave mentioned that they were stationary, however that had no bearing on THIS year's game.

He implied that there would be moving IR beacons this year.

And they really, really like the autonomous mode stuff. And last year people began to build their strategies around NOT knocking off the ball in autonomous mode. Half the teams I saw didn't do ANYTHING during autonomous mode.

So I bet they're going to make autonomous mode more important this year, somehow. And that involves IR Beacons that are moving.

[Wetzel]

While wearing Amethyst colored glasses, John Neun gave George Burns the following riddle: "Look closely and you will see something between Pi, You and Me."

No more drunken auto balance codes, or teams falling over trying to climb a bar.
The grammer of the riddle needs to better taken apart.
Follow the Beatles.


The field will be flat



Wetzel

[Swampdude]

Well I still think the "life is short, eat dessert first" is a hint. It just didn't get officialized. So I'm sticking with pie :D
so we want to be the first the "eat the pie"

[phrontist]

I hope AUTO mode isn't going to be extremely important... For the passed years our robot has done next to nothing in AUTO mode... We try so hard to get it right but we just beat our robot during the comps and everything gets off... Like we don't go straight or whatever... OH NO!!!

Oh, automode is going to be super important! Dave has said that straight out. Well, straight by dave standards.

[R.J.]

Here is what I think:

I can see FIRST taking elements from previous years, and they did say that The IR beacon thingy would be used more ofen.

The playing field being a baseball field would be so cool. Maybe you have to pitch the ball to your partner and they have to hit the ball. Then the opposing team has to find your ball with the IR Beacon and locate it before you get to thrid base. Just a random thought.

The Beatles idea is really intresting and that the clues do go hand in hand with one of their album covers.

Who knows what will happen? All the answers to our questions will come out on Jan. 8th!

[663.keith]

I don't know... I think the idea is almost logical. It wouldn't have to be major points like the fifty we could earn for the bar last year, but maybe a solid 10-20 points for having the ability to accomplish something during that short time period would be good.

Besides, the only reason nobody works harder on their autonomous programming is because they havent been given a significant reason to.

exactly, I think it would be great to have some points that could only be scored in autonomous mode. Other greater values could be gained during the regular time. Oh, and our team had plenty of troubles during autonomous mode during stack attack. At times we had to purposefully incur a penalty that would disable our autonomous mode because we had no way to turn our autonomous off.

I love the idea that alliances are picked during autonomous, this makes teams think on their feet, and it makes autonomous important, but not extremely vital to teams that don't have a successful autonomous mode

[Pin Man]

No more drunken auto balance codes, or teams falling over trying to climb a bar.
The grammer of the riddle needs to better taken apart.
Follow the Beatles.


The field will be flat



Wetzel
i must have missed something there... why do you think the field is flat...


and phrontist- looks like we are gonna be pulling all nighters this year to work with the AUTO mode... hmmmmmmmmm... This is gonna be craaaaaaaaaaaaazy...

[Karthik1]

Sorry I don't know that much about baseball can someone tell me what unassisted triple play means.

[phrontist]

i must have missed something there... why do you think the field is flat...


and phrontist- looks like we are gonna be pulling all nighters this year to work with the AUTO mode... hmmmmmmmmm... This is gonna be craaaaaaaaaaaaazy...

Finally! Robots are, by definition, primarily autonomus.

[Bcahn836]

Sorry I don't know that much about baseball can someone tell me what unassisted triple play means.


In a single play one person makes all three outs in a single inning of baseball.

[Guest]

Finally! Robots are, by definition, primarily autonomus.
True, but reducing the driving part of the competition significantly decreases overall excitement and public interest.

[Karthik1]

In a single play one person makes all three outs in a single inning of baseball.

Wow thats crazy and you say that only 12 ppl have ever done that.
hmp.. I think we are on to something.

[Pin Man]

True, but reducing the driving part of the competition significantly decreases overall excitement and public interest.
I fully agree with you... Though AUTO mode is fun (especially when you have a working one), it takes a lot of chance for great driver plays which really attract the crowd...

[phrontist]

If one were to don amethyst colored glasses, would one be able to see IR beams? ;)

Also, when scoring baseball, first base is position number three.

My thoughts.

No, not a chance. Our eyes can't see in the IR range, and adding filters wouldn't help matters.

[Pin Man]

this is going to be a looooooooooooooooooooooooong nine days... I can't wait to find out the game... I hope the human player is as much as involved as it was last year...

[pakrat]

Well, last year, between one regional and the championships, our team had two partners not show up.

I mean, the whole team thing can certainly backfire...

But I wonder how strategy could work with switching alliances? That seems to be a central part of the game...

The problem with switching teams is that then, who wins?? Like, how do you determine what the winning final alliance?? Its just not reasonable

[pakrat]

Actually, IFI can define new channels for the robots to drive on, thus allowing four fields at a time at the Championship (and a fifth, if you count the NASA field in the pit--but I don't know how the reception works)

However, you do have a point in that controlling six robots means some fields would have to go in Atlanta. And that means more teams per division...and that means fewer matches per team...


Sorry if someone already said this, but there's plenty of room for more feilds or bigger feilds in atlanta, i think they could keep the same number of matches per team

[ahecht]

While wearing Amethyst colored glasses, John Neun gave George Burns the following riddle: "Look closely and you will see something between Pi, You and Me."
The inital letters is Pi, You, and Me, which are all capitalized in the clue, are PYM. PYM clearly stands for pyramid. Amethyst is a pyramid. Coincidence?

[Mr. Ivey]

I'm just going to throw out what went through my mind reading everything...

Amethyst colored glasses, are a rose/purpleish color. Now while yes John Lennen wore the rose colored glasses, what about Jimi Hendrix. Purple Haze... Hendrix was born in 1942 and died in 1970, and that is 28 years, but he died at 27, let's not look at that. 2 more years he would have been 30, following in our "3" pattern. For the past 2 years there has been autonomous operation in FIRST, and it was for 15 seconds. 2+28=30, so maybe 30 seconds of auton. That was just off the wall and completely random...

Next, both Burns and Nuen played at one point for the Red Stockings. On a technicallity... In the 1870s and 1880s the Boston Braves were called the Boston Red Stockings, but not as the Sox we know today. Burns played in 1928 and 29, and Nuen played in 30 and 31. Now the Boston Braves team was formed in 1871 as a National Association club, and in 1876 they joined the National League. The Boston Braves had many nicknames, prior to 1912 when they were offocially titeled the Boston Braves, they were called the Boston Red Stockings. They were in Boston as the Boston Braves from 1912 to 1952, then off to Milwaukee from 53 to 65, then on to Atlanta, where our Championship game is held. Right now the Atlanta Braves are the oldest continuosly operating sports franchise in North America, at 133 years. There is the number 3 again, and they moved to Atl in 53. In 1935 Babe Ruth wanted to become the Manager but it was given to Bob Quinn. The Braves have won 15 division championships, 21 pennant titles, and only 3 World Serries Championships, but have been in the world serries for the past 13 years. And if memory serves correct there are 3 "Braves" farm teams, yes I know there are more farm teams than 3 that the Atl. Braves use but I know of only 3 that carry the title of Braves. A lot of 3 in there... This is my over-justification of the possible importance of the number 3. And I'm an over the top braves fan...

Now between Pi and me and you. We usually think of Pi as just 3.14, let's just look at the digits 314. Now let's look at Burns and Nuen, let's look really closely. They both played on a Boston based team. The Boston Braves are National League, the Boston Red Sox are American League. 2 teams different divisions, same town... Now a really close look at 314. I might be going for a strech, but this is the big thing in common between Pi, me and you. When Neun was on the Braves 31' that was his last year for playing for the Braves. One of his team mates was Earl Sheely. Sheely had been in the Majors for 9 years, and this was his final year. Now to Burns and Pi. Burns played for the Boston Red Sox in for his second and final year in Boston in 1930, one of his team mates was Mike Menosky. This was Menosky's 9th and final year of playing in the majors. So we come to Earl Sheely and Mike Menosky, and what the devil do they have in common with Pi??? Both in their final year of playing in the majors, both had a slugging average of .314, the same numerals as in what we shorten Pi to. Now just to throw in the formula for slugging average... In baseball statistics, slugging percentage (SLG) is a measure of the power of a hitter. It is calculated as total bases divided by at bats. Total bases can be calculated from commonly used baseball statistics by using the formula TB = 1B + (2*2B) + (3*3B) + (4*HR).

The thing about purple haze is just to prove a point, I don't think the Beatles are really all important this year, or I could be totally wrong. 3 is an important number, and we shouldn't shorten Pi to just 3. Pi and 3 are seperate but both important to the play of this year, and somehow we will have a "Slugging Average" this year, and something about 2 teams in the same city in different divisions of some sort... Take what you want, I just looked a little closer.

Ivey

[kmcclary]

I do believe:

1) We'll definitely have IR beacons, very possibly moving this year.

2) Auto mode will exist, and be very important.

3) There will be an end of round ritual to perform, or position to be in for more points.

4) The number of teams/regional and the total regional time is similar to last year. Therefore, the time/round probably CAN'T increase, unless they increase the number of robots "processed" per round, or reduce total rounds played per team, which would cause complaints (especially considering the cost increase).

5) Similarly, they can't REDUCE the number of robots processed per round from four, without potentially causing timing problems. SO... I predict we'll still see alliances of some kind. If the "four is not enough" clue is valid, I assume this hint implies we'll probably have SIX robots on the field, in either a 3 vs 3 situation on a nice simple rectangular field, or 2 vs 2 vs 2 on a hexagonal field.

6) Note that one variable that is NOT constrained and MAY change is the ratio of Auto to Manual time! THAT could be interesting!

7) Could the "Pi between you and me" have something to do with the HP's role??? How about the HP wearing funny glasses and ADVISING the drivers about the location of an IR beacon that is not visible to them???

8) A hexagonal field is possible with decent viewing. Viewing isn't a problem if the third team is directly opposite the viewing side.

9) In addition to hinting at the number three, *I* interpret all of the triple play references could POSSIBLY mean that some ritual involving dashing between locations may be involved.

10) The LED Robot Active Blinkers issued last year are simply Blue and Red LED drivers, with ONLY two signal lines. If you drive BOTH at the same time, you generate a crude "purple". Therefore, there MAY be a three single or alliance situation given the 2004 IFI hardware, but no more than that. All may change though if they issue a new RAB, revert to the Gumball, or change the Robot Controller, but I can't imagine IFI would redesign the RC again so soon if they didn't have to, and though the RABs were not very noticeable, I'm guessing they'll use it again as people complained about the gumballs a lot. If *I* were at IFI, I'd want to milk the 2004 RC for at least a few more years to recover the R&D costs on it!

11) Carpeting comes in 12 foot wide rolls. Therefore, the EASIEST field dimensions to implement (without trimming) is a rectangular one, with width roughly equal to 12*N, by any length. 24' x N' across has held true for the last several seasons. If a hexagonal field IS used, I predict the size will be a multiple of 12' across between opposite flat sides.

Bottom line prediction:

Given the current IFI and field hardware, I guess the SIMPLEST interpretation is a 3 vs 3 alliance game, on a standard 24' (or 36'?) wide rectangular field, or a hex as spec'd in (11). Auto Mode will be important, moving IR beacons may be there, something weird or missing will be the center of the field, running BETWEEN places will be required, and some kind of ritual or position must be performed at the end for more points, as before.

BTW... What HASN'T happened yet but IMHO would be COOL, would be to have an alliance with one or more of the robots predesignated as having to do something DIFFERENT than the other(s) so that handoffs, etc. between robots may be REQUIRED. Designating who does what tasks may be done by the alliances. If an alliance robot fails, one robot may do more tasks.

However, I see nothing other than the fact that John and George were "unusual" to hint at distinct tasking this year. <darn>

General Notes:
To Kit - George Burns the comedian/actor lived to be 100 years old, not 110.
To Swampdude - Why do you say we're getting less motors? Did you hear something? Please tell!

- Keith Mc.

[Michael Hill]

WHAT IF....It were a hexagonal field with 2 alliances (3 teams each)...using baseballs as field objects and there is a circular barrier or goal in the middle? One alliance being the red alliance and the other blue (red+blue=amethyst). Just a thought...

[phrontist]

I'm just going to throw out what went through my mind reading everything...

Amethyst colored glasses, are a rose/purpleish color. Now while yes John Lennen wore the rose colored glasses, what about Jimi Hendrix. Purple Haze... Hendrix was born in 1942 and died in 1970, and that is 28 years, but he died at 27, let's not look at that. 2 more years he would have been 30, following in our "3" pattern. For the past 2 years there has been autonomous operation in FIRST, and it was for 15 seconds. 2+28=30, so maybe 30 seconds of auton. That was just off the wall and completely random...

Next, both Burns and Nuen played at one point for the Red Stockings. On a technicallity... In the 1870s and 1880s the Boston Braves were called the Boston Red Stockings, but not as the Sox we know today. Burns played in 1928 and 29, and Nuen played in 30 and 31. Now the Boston Braves team was formed in 1871 as a National Association club, and in 1876 they joined the National League. The Boston Braves had many nicknames, prior to 1912 when they were offocially titeled the Boston Braves, they were called the Boston Red Stockings. They were in Boston as the Boston Braves from 1912 to 1952, then off to Milwaukee from 53 to 65, then on to Atlanta, where our Championship game is held. Right now the Atlanta Braves are the oldest continuosly operating sports franchise in North America, at 133 years. There is the number 3 again, and they moved to Atl in 53. In 1935 Babe Ruth wanted to become the Manager but it was given to Bob Quinn. The Braves have won 15 division championships, 21 pennant titles, and only 3 World Serries Championships, but have been in the world serries for the past 13 years. And if memory serves correct there are 3 "Braves" farm teams, yes I know there are more farm teams than 3 that the Atl. Braves use but I know of only 3 that carry the title of Braves. A lot of 3 in there... This is my over-justification of the possible importance of the number 3. And I'm an over the top braves fan...

Now between Pi and me and you. We usually think of Pi as just 3.14, let's just look at the digits 314. Now let's look at Burns and Nuen, let's look really closely. They both played on a Boston based team. The Boston Braves are National League, the Boston Red Sox are American League. 2 teams different divisions, same town... Now a really close look at 314. I might be going for a strech, but this is the big thing in common between Pi, me and you. When Neun was on the Braves 31' that was his last year for playing for the Braves. One of his team mates was Earl Sheely. Sheely had been in the Majors for 9 years, and this was his final year. Now to Burns and Pi. Burns played for the Boston Red Sox in for his second and final year in Boston in 1930, one of his team mates was Mike Menosky. This was Menosky's 9th and final year of playing in the majors. So we come to Earl Sheely and Mike Menosky, and what the devil do they have in common with Pi??? Both in their final year of playing in the majors, both had a slugging average of .314, the same numerals as in what we shorten Pi to. Now just to throw in the formula for slugging average... In baseball statistics, slugging percentage (SLG) is a measure of the power of a hitter. It is calculated as total bases divided by at bats. Total bases can be calculated from commonly used baseball statistics by using the formula TB = 1B + (2*2B) + (3*3B) + (4*HR).

The thing about purple haze is just to prove a point, I don't think the Beatles are really all important this year, or I could be totally wrong. 3 is an important number, and we shouldn't shorten Pi to just 3. Pi and 3 are seperate but both important to the play of this year, and somehow we will have a "Slugging Average" this year, and something about 2 teams in the same city in different divisions of some sort... Take what you want, I just looked a little closer.

Ivey


Wait though, there are a lot of reason's it's realted to the beatles!

The Rose Glasses - Lennon had them
The names - John and George!
George Burns - Comedian, whose only "acting" role ever was in Sgt. Pepper Movie
Dave Likes Rock n' Roll

[Dested]

Has anyone noticed that it should be "Pi, you and I"?

[phrontist]

Has anyone noticed that it should be "Pi, you and I"?

More evidence that the PYraMid acronym is deliberate!

[Jaine Perotti]

Has anyone noticed that it should be "Pi, you and I"?I think its to keep the rhyme scheme:

Look closely and you will see
Something between Pi, You and Me."

'See' and 'me' rhyme.

I dont know if it has anything to do with the game clue however.

[Mr. Ivey]

My grammar skills aren't that great but shouldn't it be "Pi you and me"??? And something tells me purple, go with purple, go with Hendrix. Something there, something in Purple Haze, and baseball. I don't know why, I love the Beatles I have original copies of the Srg. Pepper's Lonely Heart Band and so many others, but something just doesn't "click" with it to me. I feel that baseball, and Mike Menosky has something to do with it, he went to Indiana University of Pennsylvania, and from tracking the .314 SLG he was the only one of the 4 baseball players that I mentioned that went to college... I don't know but it seems as if baseball plays a more important role than most of us here are thinking.
Ivey

George Burns the comedian had another real acting role in 1939, in the movie Honolulu, he played Joe Duffy.

[Jeff K.]

PI is the 16 th letter of the Greek Alphabet. The following is from a math site:

pi PI (PIE) The lower-case Pi is universally used to represent that number which is the ratio of the circumference of a circle to its diameter. The upper-case Pi is used as the “product” symbol.

16 sided field...now dats crazy.

While I also can't imagine FIRST abandoning alliances altogether, it may be worth noting that John Neun and George Burns are notable in baseball for having performed unassisted triple plays.

Maybe we might lose the alliances this year...or maybe you have alliances of three teams and only 1 robot is on the field at a time, but the pyramid idea is just as crazy as my 16 sided field idea too, if they were going for pyramid, how would you make it 3d? would you have to have something that can also climb up the side of it and there's something at the top of it all that you have to reach, and maybe in your alliances, each robot has to work together to reach the top, and maybe the field is an upside down V to look like a mountain.

I remembered hearing a thread a bit back about a kid hearing Dave Lavery saying something he saw at the Science Museum of Virginia reminded him of somethign from next years game and so I searched their website and during march of 2004 which is when they had the VCU regional there was an exhibit on CRYSTALS! specifically noting HEXAGON shaped...

So maybe we might not do pyramid field, but hexagon field and just one robot in the field at a time from the 3-robot alliance.


Then again...I might totally be off, so ya

[Jeff K.]

WHAT IF....It were a hexagonal field with 2 alliances (3 teams each)...using baseballs as field objects and there is a circular barrier or goal in the middle? One alliance being the red alliance and the other blue (red+blue=amethyst). Just a thought...


What if your robot has to pick up the baseballs and collect it all in the middle and the number of balls your robot has has to be between 5 and 100 in order to win and the number that is closest to the average, 52.5, or 53, will get higher points.

Then again, we might all be goin totally off course on this clue and it might be as simple as the amethyst colored field being just a hexagon, alliances of 3 teams each, and your robot has to pick up a pie and place it between you and someone else.

[tkwetzel]

After about page 8 or 9, I ran out of time for this thread (have other things to do)...but I do have an idea that I didn't see in the posts I read:
What if a robot plays an unassisted triple play somehow in the game (something that the robot does without his alliance partner) and when it does, that team gets the red+blue score.

Edit: I would also like to point out a similarity between John and George: They were both first (FIRST?) baseman

[Conor Ryan]

Its something with a Golden Mean, that would explain the Pi, you and me

[Elgin Clock]

George Burns - Comedian, whose only "acting" role ever was in Sgt. Pepper Movie
Sorry.. but you are wrong!

http://imdb.com/name/nm0122675/?fr=c2l0ZT1kZnxteD0yMHxzZz0xfGxtPTIwMHx0dD1vbnxwbj 0wfHE9R2VvcmdlIEJ1cm5zfGh0bWw9MXxubT1vbg__;fc=1;ft =20;fm=1

He was an actor in many movies. Sgt. Pepper Movie was not his only "acting" role as you put it.

In fact, in a memorable role, he played God in the "Oh God" movies.

[phrontist]

[/list]Sorry.. but you are wrong!

http://imdb.com/name/nm0122675/?fr=c2l0ZT1kZnxteD0yMHxzZz0xfGxtPTIwMHx0dD1vbnxwbj 0wfHE9R2VvcmdlIEJ1cm5zfGh0bWw9MXxubT1vbg__;fc=1;ft =20;fm=1

He was an actor in many movies. Sgt. Pepper Movie was not his only "acting" role as you put it.

In fact, in a memorable role, he played God in the "Oh God" movies.

Hmmm... I'm sorry, I meant first acting role. Not only. This is based on a quote by him found on wikipedia.

[Philip W.]

Has anyone noticed that it should be "Pi, you and I"?

Here we go, quick grammar lesson. It only has to be "you and I" when a verb follows, or has this group of people doing something. For example, it can't be "you and me went to the store" because "me went" isn't grammatically correct. Now, because this John and George aren't doing something, it's okay. I hope you guys understand, because I'm too lazy to explain better.

[kmcclary]

Another thing to think about is that Amethyst lenses are often used to enhance color discrimination in optical systems.

This COULD imply either:

- The Human Player has the role of wearing glasses to "see something" the driver's can't, and try to ADVISE them (now wouldn't THAT be cool?? ...especially if the thing they see is CHANGING during the round...);

- or something like a color sensor may be included in the KOP to discriminate
between things during Auto Mode.

IMHO, either one would be a neat innovation.

- Keith McClary

[Jeff K.]

Another thing to think about is that Amethyst lenses are often used to enhance color discrimination in optical systems.

This COULD imply either:

- The Human Player has the role of wearing glasses to "see something" the driver's can't, and try to ADVISE them (now wouldn't THAT be cool?? ...especially if the thing they see is CHANGING during the round...);
...


But doesn't everyone in it have to wear safety glasses too? so maybe every1 would have to wear the same glasses that they would see the 'special thing'.

But ya, your idea would be an interesting addition to make game play more challenging, would be like having to lead a blind man around.

[NumberQ]

Its simple. PI can symbolise parenthood (Progonos or something like that...) So John Neun was proposing to George Burns. The fact that he was wearing purple glasses only helps my case.

[kmcclary]

But doesn't everyone in it have to wear safety glasses too? so maybe every1 would have to wear the same glasses that they would see the 'special thing'. Not if the lenses were "clip-on", or BE safety glasses you use INSTEAD of your own.

- Keith

[kmcclary]

Its simple. PI can symbolise parenthood (Progonos or something like that...) So John Neun was proposing to George Burns. The fact that he was wearing purple glasses only helps my case. That sounds more like "beer goggles" to me... ;)

- Keith

[Joel J]

I can definitely also see the pyramid association, if we continue with the baseball reference. Pi is in reference to a circle, and a base is a diamond like shape.

That six sided object, as always, seems to be coming back to mind.

Also, what about Dave Lavery and his liking, along with Dean, of e^i*pi? Isn't e somewhere between 1 and 3?

Also, there is a quote from Cliff Pickover, "Somewhere inside the digits of pi is a representation for all of us -- the atomic coordinates of all our atoms, our genetic code, all our thoughts, all our memories. Given this fact, all of us are alive, and hopefully happy, in pi. Pi makes us live forever. We all lead virtual lives in pi. We are immortal." In the documented discussion of that quote, Cliff says one of his friends from IBM said, "If the binary representation of pi is interpreted as a program in some computer language, perhaps it encodes a simulation of the universe that includes itself, you and me... or maybe it is a movie of your live encoded in some yet-to-be-discovered version of MPEG..."

[Tuba4]

"While wearing Amethyst colored glasses, John Neun gave George Burns the following riddle: 'Look closely and you will see something between Pi, You and Me.'"

There is another baseball player hidden in this clue. From 1920 until 1937 there was a player named "Pie" Traynor who played for the Pittsburgh Pirates. It just so happens he played third base. (Yet another 3?!?)

So if John Neun said to George Burns 'Look closely and you will see something between Pi, You and Me', what could that mean? Well, between first base and third base you have second base. Three bases (or three player stations) could mean either three teams or three alliances of two teams. Any further thoughts on Pie Traynor?

[rees2001]

That sounds more like "beer goggles" to me... ;)

- Keith

Where did this thread go wrong?

If you look at the greek alphabet Pi falls directly between Mu (M, Me) and Upsilon (Y, You). There are 3 letters between the first 2 and 3 letters between the last 2.

I am sure this has nothing to do with anything but it has to be better than "God" and J(V)N getting hitched because of a few too many.

[jparkteach]

"Pi, you and me"

In radians, Pi is half a circle, or 180 degrees. Perhaps it is referring to the fact that there may be something with an IR beacon, and the alliance drivers or their respective robots will be in opposite sides.

I also think this center structure will be a pyramid of sorts... But, that could be just me...

[Pat McCarthy]

Somehow this backs the pyramid theory...

http://www.math.washington.edu/~greenber/PiPyr.html

[Corey Balint]

Well one thing that i havent noticed yet is the simple idea that Pi is infinite(to our knowledge so far). Might the game have something to do with an infinite score or something of the sort.

[gsensel]

"While wearing Amethyst colored glasses, John Neun gave George Burns the following riddle: 'Look closely and you will see something between Pi, You and Me.'"

There is another baseball player hidden in this clue. From 1920 until 1937 there was a player named "Pie" Traynor who played for the Pittsburgh Pirates. It just so happens he played third base. (Yet another 3?!?)

So if John Neun said to George Burns 'Look closely and you will see something between Pi, You and Me', what could that mean? Well, between first base and third base you have second base. Three bases (or three player stations) could mean either three teams or three alliances of two teams. Any further thoughts on Pie Traynor?

Another possibility though not sure how it could work in is the pitchers mound is between first and third.

[Pat McCarthy]

Another possibility though not sure how it could work in is the pitchers mound is between first and third.

As is second base.

[gb8]

It seems to me that everyone is looking to far into the clue. I doubt all the details of the game are compressed into 25 words. I think the clue possible refers to a circle inscribed into a triangle.

What was last year's clue? How related was it to the actual game?

Another note: Why is the time on this website an hour faster than EST?

[Pat McCarthy]

While wearing Amethyst colored glasses, John Neun gave George Burns the following riddle: "Look closely and you will see something between Pi, You and Me."

While reading the hint, I noticed something in the way the comma was used.
Normally, when referring to three items in a list, the writer would write it as such, "Pi, You, and Me" With another comma separating You + and.

But in the hint, the comma implies that the speaker is saying that "You and Me" (John Neun and George Burns) will see something between Pi.

I have no clue if that made much sense to anyone else, but that's another thing I got out of this hint. :p
There must be some significance in that.

[Lisa Perez]

While wearing Amethyst colored glasses, John Neun gave George Burns the following riddle: "Look closely and you will see something between Pi, You and Me."

While reading the hint, I noticed something in the way the comma was used.
Normally, when referring to three items in a list, the writer would write it as such, "Pi, You, and Me" With another comma separating You + and.

What if what is seen between Pi (or a round field) IS you and me? And the driver's station would be in the middle of said round field, creating a donut-like shape?

[Joel J]

While wearing Amethyst colored glasses, John Neun gave George Burns the following riddle: "Look closely and you will see something between Pi, You and Me."

While reading the hint, I noticed something in the way the comma was used.
Normally, when referring to three items in a list, the writer would write it as such, "Pi, You, and Me" With another comma separating You + and.

But in the hint, the comma implies that the speaker is saying that "You and Me" (John Neun and George Burns) will see something between Pi.

I have no clue if that made much sense to anyone else, but that's another thing I got out of this hint. :p
There must be some significance in that.
How I read it, George Burns would see something between pi. And that something would be "You and Me," ie. George Burns and John Neun. It would go along with the simulated universe talked about in the previous quote, the FLL challenge (which has, historically, had a bit of a relation to the FIRST game), and that "...the center is out" quote mentioned in an earlier thread. I mean, wasn't there a CD involved with the FLL No Limits challenge?

While wearing Amethyst colored glasses, John Neun gave George Burns the following riddle:

"Look closely and you will see
something between Pi,
You and Me."

[Pat McCarthy]

What if what is seen between Pi (or a round field) IS you and me? And the driver's station would be in the middle of said round field, creating a donut-like shape?

With our logics, it makes a little misconstrued sense. :D
I like it.

[gb8]

Vmax = 10 ft/sec

Yes, there are two paths you can go by
But in the long run
There's still time to change the road you're on."

The proceeding was the clue from last year. The max velocity of the arm to grab the bar wasn't so encrypted. Last year people noticed the quote was from a Led Zeppelin song. So maybe the Beatles idea isn't so far off.

[Yan Wang]

Might the game have something to do with an infinite score or something of the sort.

No, since infinity is a concept, not a number. It'd be hard to calculate points :)

I'm going to forward this clue to Robert Langdon. I'm all thought out.

[Charley]

What if what is seen between Pi (or a round field) IS you and me? And the driver's station would be in the middle of said round field, creating a donut-like shape?


How would people see? It'd be way too cluttered.

Though it'd be interesting, I don't think it'd be fun for the drivers at all.

[Jeff K.]

What if what is seen between Pi (or a round field) IS you and me? And the driver's station would be in the middle of said round field, creating a donut-like shape?

Whoa that'd actually be a really cool game. But then what about a hexagon? or howabout a hexagon shaped field, and then there is a hole in the middle of it that is used for the driver stations. That might be why they asked for more money this year because that sounds more expensive.

[Corey Balint]

[QUOTE=Yan Wang]No, since infinity is a concept, not a number. It'd be hard to calculate points :) [QUOTE]

Sorry, that was a bit confusing before, i mean like an infinite amount of times to score an object. Say passing an object from zone to zone scores you points, as many times as you can do so.

[BandChick]

like a lot of peopel before me have said already, it seems that John Neun is saying the BOTH of them will see something between Pi. What, I can't tell you. But has anyone solved this riddle? Or looked on google for the answer?

[Pyro16]

when i was reading your posts i thought you might start out as two teams (red and blue) then in the middle you combine to form one team (Amethyst) and then score together.

just a thought

[NumberQ]

What bothers me is the fact that You and Me are capitalized. Capitalized pronouns usually refers to God. Something between Pi and God? I think they made a movie about that, but I never saw it so I dont know. That would be cool though.

[KimT]

Vmax = 10 ft/sec

Yes, there are two paths you can go by
But in the long run
There's still time to change the road you're on."

The proceeding was the clue from last year. The max velocity of the arm to grab the bar wasn't so encrypted. Last year people noticed the quote was from a Led Zeppelin song. So maybe the Beatles idea isn't so far off.


Call me dumb, but can you clarify how this hinted at last year's game? I must say, I'm rather baffled. I could see it more for Stack Attack than FIRST Frenzy, but I think understanding last year's connections (or if there's some pattern with clues from previous years?) will help us determine where we're running wild with the clue. Thanks!

[David Guzman]

when i was reading your posts i thought you might start out as two teams (red and blue) then in the middle you combine to form one team (Amethyst) and then score together.

just a thought

There could be a middle area of the field were both aliances can score, but maybe the points will only count for the aliance that ends the match controling that part of the field, which would be the center. Maybe You and Me are the aliances in the middle of a circular Amethyst area.

Is an idea that came up to me when i read what you said Kev. :confused:

I also think that it would help if we could find the connections of the hints to the game in past years.

[Pin Man]

There could be a middle area of the field were both aliances can score, but maybe the points will only count for the aliance that ends the match controling that part of the field, which would be the center. Maybe You and Me are the aliances in the middle of a circular Amethyst area.

Is an idea that came up to me when i read what you said Kev. :confused:

I also think that it would help if we could find the connections of the hints to the game in past years.
i like that... that would be crazy... kinda like zone zeal... both teams could score the points but whoever had the goal in their zone at the end got the points... that would be interesting...

[Ted Boucher]

"While wearing Amethyst colored glasses, John Neun gave George Burns the following riddle: "Look closely and you will see something between Pi, You and Me."

OK.. I am going to break this down..

"While wearing Amethyst colored glasses" …. This sounds like they are both on the same alliance at a competition. If each alliance has a different colored pair of glasses.


"Look closely and you will see something between Pi, You and Me." Add this with this….

In radians, Pi is half a circle, or 180 degrees.

You get that one on them is on one half of the circle, and one is on the other side of the circle. So, basically breaking the alliance up on the field. Between them is some thing that they have to look closely at, and I assume that this will be a major field element. This could be a IR game object that they would have to find and then carefully manipulate.

[Pin Man]

"While wearing Amethyst colored glasses, John Neun gave George Burns the following riddle: "Look closely and you will see something between Pi, You and Me."

OK.. I am going to break this down..

"While wearing Amethyst colored glasses" …. This sounds like they are both on the same alliance at a competition. If each alliance has a different colored pair of glasses.


"Look closely and you will see something between Pi, You and Me." Add this with this….



You get that one on them is on one half of the circle, and one is on the other side of the circle. So, basically breaking the alliance up on the field. Between them is some thing that they have to look closely at, and I assume that this will be a major field element. This could be a IR game object that they would have to find and then carefully manipulate.
hmm... thats interesting... but now that i think of it i agree that that comma is bothering me... it sounds like you and me are between Pi... So maybe like you start inside something with the other team... hmm...

[Mike AA]

just as a thought, and seeing that there hasn't been an early BOM list. maybe someone could ask around at home centers around FIRST's HQ and see if they've gotten a large order or specific things from first. if just a way to see what might be included on the field :)

I would guess FIRST wouldn't be switching away from alliances but to get the larger number of teams using more per match would require more teams per field.

But I guess after 15 pages people start to repeat things....

[David Guzman]

hmm... thats interesting... but now that i think of it i agree that that comma is bothering me... it sounds like you and me are between Pi... So maybe like you start inside something with the other team... hmm...

Maybe what that comma is trying to tell us is that You and Me are in between Pi, so Pi is half of a circle so the team players could be in the middle of the field, they would be in the semicircle. So red aliance would be in Quadrant 1 or 2 and blue in the other quadrant.

Inside there the human players would have to something to which they have to look closely. I am not sure what, but anyways just guessing. :D

[jparkteach]

What if the center piece was more like a tetrahedral? 3 lateral sides...

[sanddrag]

just as a thought, and seeing that there hasn't been an early BOM list. maybe someone could ask around at home centers around FIRST's HQ and see if they've gotten a large order or specific things from first. if just a way to see what might be included on the field :)
You could just go to a remote kickoff location and hide in the trees with binoculars and perform surveillance in the couple days and night before the event and see what they carry inside. Of course, that would be maliciously amateur, not graciously professional.

[Katie Reynolds]

Look closely and you will see something between Pi, You and Me." I see all the vowels of the alphabet, between "pi, you and me"

[Kevin Kolodziej]

First, a quick grammar note. The way the comma was used ("...Pi, You and Me.") is acceptable according to some style guides. I disagree with it (1,2, and 3), as does the English department at MSOE, but the MSOE newspaper uses the comma in the way that the quote does.

On to my thoughts!

I really like that idea of two hexagonal fields, each with their own alliance, but the scores work together somehow. It reminds me of an idea I had last year for a game that is still untold to most...

What I get out of the hint is this:

Amethyst = purple, which to me means the red and blue alliances combine somehow. I think there could be a purple, or neutral, zone in the middle of the field that counts for nothing (the center is out????)...OR, how about this: the points in the blue zone multiply the points in the red zone, which gives both alliances the same base score. The points in the alliance's zone then get added to that base score. FOR EXAMPLE: 5 points in red, 10 points in blue. Base score = 50, red gets 55, blue gets 60.

I don't think the shape of the field will change. My early FIRST history is rusty, but was the hexagon field used for 5 years? The square field of '99 certainly was not =)

There is plenty of room on the current field for three teams per side and six robots on the field at once. As far as the radio is concerned, aren't there 14 channels (4 dipswitches)? I don't know much about the controller..so I could be very wrong. One way or another, it worked for the CDI competitions (3v3), so I don't see why it wouldn't work for regular FIRST. I really hope that it is 3v3 because those CDI matches were the best matches that I ever participated in or watched.

Pi leads to circles, and what is in the middle of Pi you and me?

PIYOUME -> center letter is O...what I'm getting at are INNERTUBES! Cirlces extruded about circles =)

Kev

[Mike AA]

You could just go to a remote kickoff location and hide in the trees with binoculars and perform surveillance in the couple days and night before the event and see what they carry inside. Of course, that would be maliciously amateur, not graciously professional.

Yes, I know it would be, and it occured to me, but it was just a joke.

[Pin Man]

I like your thinking on the inner tubes... having 3 vs 3 would be incredible... unless you were on an alliance with two broken robots... then it would be like instant death... I would love to see 3 vs 3... It would bring so much excitement to the competition (no I'm not saying that the competition is dull right now because we all know how crazy everyone can get)...

[Jeff K.]

You could just go to a remote kickoff location and hide in the trees with binoculars and perform surveillance in the couple days and night before the event and see what they carry inside. Of course, that would be maliciously amateur, not graciously professional.


LOL but hey, it'd be funny and something to laugh at.

[CyberWolf_22]

When I read about the red + blue = purple. I started thinking about the best robotics game this year.

In it, there were multiple scoring zones one for each color and then four others where two of the four teams shared the points put in to this zone.

Maybe, the FIRST game is like this in that Instead of having to help your opposing alliance score points in a game like in stack attack were you were blowing the opposing alliances out it was to your advantage to help them score. You can put many of your scoring objects in a shared zone that makes both alliances score points, providing for a better qualifying score.

[Dested]

They coudlnt have given us these things like 3 days before? SOME OF US NEED SOME FREAKIN SLEEP BEFORE THE SIX WEEKS!!!!!! :-P

[Yov]

May I just say "you" litteraly is in between "pi, you, and me"

Just some food for thought ;P

[Daniel Brim]

"While wearing Amethyst colored glasses, John Neun gave George Burns the following riddle: 'Look closely and you will see something between Pi, You and Me.'"

I apologize if this has been said, but I don't have time to read through 230-something posts. John Neun and George Burns were both baseball players (as I saw when I attempted to read this thread). Baseball is played on a diamond. A diamond and amethyst can both go on rings. Rings are circular, as are glasses, as is the o in the middle of Pi you me. All of these circles are not solid; they have holes in them (donut/bagel shaped). This also goes with "the center is out" rumor earlier.

[kmcclary]

Vmax = 10 ft/sec

Yes, there are two paths you can go by
But in the long run
There's still time to change the road you're on."

The proceeding was the clue from last year. The max velocity of the arm to grab the bar wasn't so encrypted. Last year people noticed the quote was from a Led Zeppelin song. So maybe the Beatles idea isn't so far off.

Call me dumb, but can you clarify how this hinted at last year's game? I must say, I'm rather baffled. I could see it more for Stack Attack than FIRST Frenzy, but I think understanding last year's connections (or if there's some pattern with clues from previous years?) will help us determine where we're running wild with the clue. Thanks!

The clue was a Led Zeppelin song lyric from "Stairway to Heaven". We all then assumed there was a staircase or multiple steps to climb. Many of us (including me) believed there might be a "Stile" as a centerline divider access (or choke point) device, to replace the dual ramp or teeter totter in past events.

We were PARTLY right. It wasn't a "stile" ladder after all.

Instead, the center platform had three 2" microsteps at each end (a misdirection IMHO, as any robot using them would then have to navigate around the static goal on a VERY narrow shelf to get to the bar) . It also had a 6" (or 12") step if you approached the platform from near a midpoint side.

If your bar device required you to be directly under the bar, you were forced to "climb the staircase" by stepping up 6" twice.

BTW... The 10ft/sec maximum also in essence threw out ballistic acquisition of the bar from the floor. Do the math to determine how close you'd have to be for a 10ft/sec projectile shot upward to stall out vertically and you'll see what I mean... :) You had to be so close, manual placement was (IMHO) easier, and more reliable.

Does this help?

Now... Given THAT, how do we interpret THIS year's clue???

- Keith McClary

[MikeDubreuil]

I see all the vowels of the alphabet, between "pi, you and me" You forgot, "and sometimes Y." :D

[Andrew]

I'm going to stick with the baseball clue, since Johnny Neun and George Burns are the only first basemen to turn an unassisted triple play.

I think Pi refers to the (Pi)tchers mound, a circular object in the center of the baseball diamond.

I think the Amethyst colored glasses refer to an optical filter.

So, I think there will be an object, detectable by the IR sensor, between "first base" (starting point for the robot) and the center of the field.

I like the Blue+Red = Purple concept, although I do not immediately see how this will play out. Also, what will be the FIRST equivalent of the unassisted triple play? Those items, plus Car Nack's prediction, lead me to believe that alliances, if there are alliances, are not going to be what we have seen in the past.

BTW, the Championship Eligibility criteria still list 3 Regional Champions per Event.

Amethyst is February's birthstone.

[MissInformation]

Just because I want to throw in a little more confusion... I mean support toward the number 3...

George Burns, the actor... one of his biggest roles was playing God in the movie Oh God! The movie was a big enough hit to spawn off a sequel called Oh God! Book Two, which spawned off Oh God! You Devil. And though it's been a long time since I've watched one of these movies, I vaguely remember God as being based on the Christian god, and I'm not saying FIRST is in any way pushing the Christian religion on anyone, I'm bringing it up because one of the big components of the Christian religion is the Holy Trinity (which is, of course, the Father, the Son and the Holy Ghost.) See, three.

And as someone pointed out, in the Life of Pi, the main character is a practicing Hindu, Islam and Christian. And of course I could get even more silly and point out that the title is three words and that the first chapter starts on page three...

Gems cut from amethyst are graded using the terms: Siberian, Uruguayan or Bahain; to represent high medium and low grade respectively, regardless of the actual source.

And of course people have already discussed the baseball threes...

I'm sure I could come up with lots more three related things, but I really need to go now. Why do I want to support three so much? Maybe I've been influenced by School House Rock and I really do believe Three is a Magic Number. (http://www.schoolhouserock.tv/Three.html)

Heidi

[Steve W]

3 x 3is possible. The red + blue = purple could be as said a combined score between red and blue. Being that there have been multiplier's the last 2 years the purple could be a multiplier of the red and blue teams individual scores. This would make it easier for the audience to figure out, no doubling the losers score idea and no one trying to knock over the other teams multiplier. The center is out clue (which I still believe is real) would but scoring zones on each side of the field. This would give spectators a closer view and open up the middle for more robots.

I believe that the if you look closely refers to an infared emitter that will be enclosed in something with only a small opening. This would prevent a lot of the bouncing light to disappear and therefore easier to home in on. Big bonus at the beginning of the game for autonomous mode that would be equal to the hanging at the end last year.

My 2 cents, take it or leave it. ;)

[Wetzel]

George and Johnny both caught the ball at 1st, tagged the man at 1st, then out raced the guy from 2nd to second.

They could have assured themselves the out by tossing the ball to the second basemen, but they held on for the chance at greater glory. This is the opposite of the time multiplier in 2001. Also in 2001 was the 4v0 alliance time.

I think there will be a multiplier back, but it will have to do with number to alliance partners participating. There are always a few different ways to go about the game. Last year it was hang or get balls. Very few could do both. I'm thinking of this as another way to try and level the playing field so that powerhouse teams can't carry the whole alliance and that specialty bots will be all important this year.

-Flat field.
-Cooperation required for maxing out points.

Wetzel

[663.keith]

One thing I noticed in the clue that hasn't been under much discussion was the fact that John was wearing the glasses. I have heard teams that refer to seeing through tinted glasses as seeing one side of an argument only. If one were to wear amethyst glasses (both blue and red) it seems that they see both the red and blue team equally. Through this messed up reasoning, it seems that the glasses could mean that teams have to work together equally to score points.

just my $0.02
~Keith

[Pin Man]

I don't know... We may be looking too big... Look at last year's hint... Stairway to Heaven... Look at the significance of the stairs... They were little 2" mini steps... Some are looking at this clue and trying to figure out the whole game...

[phrontist]

I don't know... We may be looking too big... Look at last year's hint... Stairway to Heaven... Look at the significance of the stairs... They were little 2" mini steps... Some are looking at this clue and trying to figure out the whole game...

Ah! But that's what he wants us to think!

Or maybe I'm getting myself caught in a web of Iocaine Logic. ;)

[pakrat]

btw, something is weird, correct english would be Pi, you, and I


right?? :confused:

[DUCKIE]

ack... and i was already worrying about queueing with just 4 teams at a time!!!! [still trying to imagine getting 6 teams to show up in a timely manner. will i need to hold a bucket of candy... the 4 team members get a piece if they show up on time or something.]

I dont want to go to in depth... because i will be living on the boards for the next couple months anyways.

Here is my official pre-kick off guess.

# of teams - 3 [or 6 if they HAVE adjusted the # of channels. Queueing will be hell though.]
shape of field - Hexagon
alliances - none [purple = red+blue so maybe similar to 2001 when we had to all work together to beat the clock.] OR [Red+Blue+Purple where there are three teams and three "alliances" playing for themselves.]
field elements - Pyramid of some sort?
manipulatives - baseballs [or perhaps the return of the floppy donut things.]

----------------------------------------------------------
Maybe the field is divided into three, where everyone looks through the "rose-tinted glasses" [player station glass]and only sees one side of the center pyramid. which might be possible due to the field set-up and Pyramid placement.

[Pin Man]

ack... and i was already worrying about queueing with just 4 teams at a time!!!! [still trying to imagine getting 6 teams to show up in a timely manner. will i need to hold a bucket of candy... the 4 team members get a piece if they show up on time or something.]

I dont want to go to in depth... because i will be living on the boards for the next couple months anyways.

Here is my official pre-kick off guess.

# of teams - 3 [or 6 if they HAVE adjusted the # of channels. Queueing will be hell though.]
shape of field - Hexagon
alliances - none [purple = red+blue so maybe similar to 2001 when we had to all work together to beat the clock.] OR [Red+Blue+Purple where there are three teams and three "alliances" playing for themselves.]
field elements - Pyramid of some sort?
manipulatives - baseballs [or perhaps the return of the floppy donut things.]

----------------------------------------------------------
Maybe the field is divided into three, where everyone looks through the "rose-tinted glasses" [player station glass]and only sees one side of the center pyramid. which might be possible due to the field set-up and Pyramid placement.
hahaha yeah tj never got candy because we are ALWAYS late... hahaha... I don't think we will all be working together though... I don't think FIRST will bring that back... If I can remember correctly it didn't go too well or atleast at the competitions I was at... Plus its so much more exciting to see robots working against each other...