My team has close to no dedication

[Alaina]

hey all,

This year has been very difficult for me. I am the only student who has been on my team for more than one season. And even current seniors who were involved last year mainly helped at the end of the season, so they don't know a whole lot about building a robot.

I think I have about 6 new members who are the slightest bit enthusiastic about FIRST (they're all freshmen, so that kind of makes me optimistic for 2008, but that's not my point). I was the only upper-classman (out of 9) at my team's kickoff party. Then later some mentors showed up, and we strategized while the freshmen played video games.

It's not like I don't tell my team how the build season works. I send out at least 2 emails to the robotics list (yay for technology schools) every day. Whether we meet at lunch or after school most people don't show up. Yesterday we were supposed to have a brainstorming session yesterday and I was the only one there. It was extremely disappointing.

We currently don't have an engineering mentor. The engineer who owns our workspace is leaving on Monday to be in England for 3 weeks. I'm sure he'll let us access our workspace but it's going to be a struggle to get any good designs without an expert opinion. And it seems like my team just wants to sit around until he gets back!

What disappoints me the most is how my teachers don't want to spend any time outside of school to work on this. I thought they were here to help us?

A 3-day weekend is coming up and we'll only be meeting one of those days. I really wanted to have a running robot by the end of the weekend. But we can't do that because we don't have a) a workspace or b) adult supervision. On Monday we are going to use a kid's garage to work and that's it. Hopefully we'll get our workspace back by Wednesday.

How can I convince my team that I can't do this by myself? I want them to know what FIRST is and what build season is like, but it seems like none of them are interested enough. I hope you don't take this post the wrong way. What I've said here is definitely not a first thought. For anybody who has read all of this, I appreciate you 'listening' and hopefully you could give me some advice.

Have a good MLK weekend

-Alaina

[pakrat]

You should try using insentives, like give people little bits of candy if they come to meetings. Also, hjave like attendance awards, and you might want to think about attendance requirements for being a driver ( i bet some people would come then). I dunno, but those sound like the best ideas.

Don't lose hope!

[phrontist]

Wow, that really bites. Are there any teams nearby that could invade your team and whip those freshman into shape? Do they have a good concept of what FIRST is? How good it will feel if they do well? Try showing them competition video and pictures, to get them phsyched. Show them pics of what other people have done.

That being said, you NEED mentors. If these have a legitamate reason to ignore you, find others. If they don't, crank up the guilt.

[Amanda N.]

That's too bad.. :( it's frustrating having a team that isn't motivated to do anything. Last year the majority of our team was new, and most people weren't really into robotics until AFTER they had gone to the competition and seen how sweet competitions are.. (I was new too, but I heard enough robotics stories from my brother and dad to know that it was a pretty cool thing :) ) we had a pretty small group of people last year who consistently were at meetings and were actually productive when there.. I'm sure this year we still will have the people who just don't care, but I think some people will become more involved after having experienced one season..

My only ideas for you would be to show them some video/pics from competition or maybe get some past team members to come to a meeting or two and talk to them..


I doubt this helped much, but good luck with your team anyway :)

[russell]

Try to find something engaging for them to do. Break them into teams, and assign team leaders. Even if the team leaders are totally incapable it will give them something to do. Then give the teams tasks and give them deadlines, in addition to a breakdown of their task.

[Kim Masi]

What our team does is we have to log in a certain number of hours during the build phase in order to be able to go to the competitions. Maybe that is a motive to get kids to come, hope you have better luck!

[Eugenia Gabrielov]

I encourage you to forge as many close relationships with these people as you can. As far as you're concerned, you almost are a mentor. As an uperclassmen, you are probably an awesome model already for those enthusiastic freshmen. Well, play on your strengths. Give them something to do. Get them hyped up for the next meeting. If there is a university near by, try to find help from there, because those often have fantastic resources. I wish you the best of luck.

[indieFan]

What disappoints me the most is how my teachers don't want to spend any time outside of school to work on this. I thought they were here to help us?

If you're at a public school in CA, odds are that your teachers are not paid or are paid minimally to spend any time on this. Remember that this is an extra-curricular activity for them as well as for you. In addition, no teacher's job is done when the bell rings at the end of the day. There are lesson plans to be made, grading to be done, parent conferences, etc.

Re: Lack of Enthusiasm/Action
I've said it in another post, but I'll say it again here. Since most of your team was not around during last year's build, chances are they have no idea where to begin. The other college students that are helping out this year on one team are in a similar state. And, that's after hearing me talk about this for the last 4 years. As a result, very specific assignments need to be given out step by step so that they aren't as overwhelmed.

To get them started, I would assign students the task of downloading the instructions for building the chassis, others the task of downloading the instructions for the transmission. When they have them printed out, then have them build the chassis and transmissions as a team. This can be done without any machinery. (Yes, the chassis pieces need to be cut down to size, but that can be done with a hacksaw. Get two hacksaws and you can have the students compete to see who can get the job done quickest, yet safest.) Once that is done, you can move onto the electronics subsystem.

Hope this helps,
indieFan

[Digo]

In my team's rookie year (2000) we had a mentor from another team. Phil helped us a lot with his experience in FIRST, both in building the robot and organizing the team.

I remember I saw a film about FIRST competitions before I joined the group. Watching all that people having fun and the robots playing is something that made me very interested.

There are so many teams around, I think you can find someone to help (at least for some time, untill things get better) and I recommend showing competition videos too. Joining a FIRST team is a really exciting thing to do, and if people are not interested, something is wrong and may be fixed. Good luck!

[tiffany34990]

I'm very sry to hear about your team and no dedication. some of us don't realize it how lucky we are to have great mentors and students around us wanting to be apart of FIRST

perhaps you can show them or explain to them about FIRST and what it has done to you. inspiration is one great thing.

i agree with the others and saying divided up the tasks and make it a rule to come but there is a downfall to that of course b/c some may drop out. but some type of bribe may work.

i wish your team and all teams the best...FIRST is a great thing to be apart of once you see the beauty of it.

[Alaina]

Thanks, everybody, for such great suggestions. I didn't think I would get so many responses so quickly!

indieFan: You have a really great idea, the one where you make two teams and then put them together...But the problem with that is, I never know which people will show up to a meeting and which ones won't. I don't want to make one person head of the "chassis team" if he/she's going to be at an orchestra rehearsal after school instead. I think band/orchestra is the main thing pulling kids away from the team. That and anime. But I'll try it.

I think the closest team to mine is about 30 miles away. I'm not sure though.

My team has already been to Cal Games, and we were at RoboNexus. I don't see why they're not excited about this. They've all seen FIRST in action. I'd hate to be a strict leader and have members log hours but I might have to.

Does anyone think a lecture would work? =\
Like if I spent a lunch-time meeting telling them what I expect out of them and what they're missing out on?

You all have really great ideas. I'll take them all into considersation! *hugs everybody* :]

[Bharat Nain]

A lecture would work, BUT don't criticize or such. Try to keep most positive and tell them what will happen if they participate, but do tell them about what will happen if they don't participate and such. Mainly, show them how they will benefit. If you need help framing a lecture of this sort just contact me.

[pakrat]

yeah, a lecture could work as long as people feel like they are being vauled and stuff

[Karthik1]

yeah, a lecture could work as long as people feel like they are being vauled and stuff

Sorry Ric but, I don't know if a lecture would actually work, but its always worth a try. You never know it might help them realize that they have to get it together.

I would suggest something hands on. Most teams have a very hard problem keeping the new members involved. This year our team tried to keep the new members as busy as possible at the meetings. Before the season we had them build a test bed and the EDU bot. Now that season has started we had them build the kit bot. I think that if you want your members to participate and come to the meetings you should have an activity that every one can work on together, it could be anything from building a few tetras to making the gear boxes in the kit. If you can get them to work on something together and make them feel like they are apart of something then they will be hooked.

[Jaine Perotti]

Alaina,
I am very sorry to hear that this is happening to your team.
A few things regrading this issue I have posted here. (http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/showthread.php?p=304552#post304552)
However, that situation was slightly different than yours.

If I were in your position, I would do two things... give them a lecture and a reality check (like Bharat said, not overly negative), and take a few actions of my own.

Lecture:

I think that your team is at a point where everyone can either start getting motivated and organized now, or not be able to have a season at all. If you are the only one on your team who is dedicated to make it happen, then most likely it won't (Not to say that you can't take on alot, because you already are, but FIRST is designed to be a team effort! There is no way only one person can do it by themselves!).

If I were the one saying this lecture, here is how it would go:

"This team is at a turning point. In order for us to have a season, we need to either come together as a group and focus on this, or we will not be competing at all. I know that you can make this happen if you want to, but only if you want to.

You need to make a choice about your personal priorities. If you want to get this team together, you MUST communicate with me. This means that you need to reply when I email you. This means that you need to show up to meetings when you say that you will. If you know that you are not going to dedicate yourself to this team and to this effort, then you shouldn't be here. This also means that you can't be doing things like playing video games while we need to get work done. I know that you can improve this, but I want you to realize that things have got to change if we are to pull through this year."

Actions:

As for getting your robot complete, why don't you start out by having them build the kitbot and then work from there? It can be assembled quite quickly, and may be a good starting point to get them motivated. you can even try to assign them roles for the different aspects of the robots construction...roles are good because they give a more focused and dynamic feel to the group.

Also try to assign deadlines for the completion of certain tasks. Deadlines will give your team a better sense for the urgency of the situation.

Above all, make it clear that it is ultimately their choice; only they can save the team. If they choose not to, then you may be forced to let go of the team for a year. But I would rather have no team at all than be faced with the frustrating task of trying to do it all by myself.

Avoid defeatism however; add some optimism to your conduct with them by making it clear that they CAN do this... they DO have the capability to pull this off, and it is not too late to change things for the better. All they need to do is focus. Once they are focused, anything is possible.

Hope this helps. Please continue to update us on your team's progress.

-- Jaine

[Joe Menassa]

I know you might not want to get parents involved but I think it may be one of your best hopes.

On the team I mentor for parents play as large a role as the engineers. Maybe your parents or one of the freshmans parents would be interested. It doesnt matter what their profession is, if they are interested then they will be very useful.

If there is a local team I would try and contact them. Bring the freshman to visit them for a day to see what they should be doing.

As everyone said, videos are key. Show them fun videos, like clips from famous matches or championship finals.

Maybe invite some of the freshman to check out this forum. Reading about all the cool ideas may help to motivate them.

good luck

[Bharat Nain]

Something to add on:
Talk and focus on the future. Look at our teams handbook (http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/papers.php?s=&action=single&paperid=369). Use content from there to make up your lecture. Get your team organized, and give them some responsibility so they feel important. You can also go into how the regionals and nationals are so exciting and stuff. Your goal is to spark their intrest, get organized, and start building a bot. Sadly though, unless this is done real well, you will be putting in a majority of the work. You also want to get your mentors intrest, and maybe your enthusiasm will help. See if you can recruit some other teachers into the team. There is a lot going on, too little time, prioritize and do it right, we are here to help.

I do hope getting them all together is not such a big problem.

[Koko Ed]

This sounds like a job for NEMO!!!
Seriously...
Wow does your situation sound bad. Unfortunately the only solutions I can offer won't do you nay good right now. One is preventive through a thorough interview process so you can weed out malcontents before they poison the well and the other is time. We've had students who started out pretty cold and grew into the job. Our assistant coach Alex is the greatest success story I have seen in FIRST so I know it can be done it just going to take some patience and understanding.
That's the best I can offer.

[Anchi]

lunch time... do you guys build this durring school? if so thats probably a huge problem. remember, FIRST dosent require teams to be school related. i probably wouldnt do it if it was durring school. we stay till 730pm or later if needed.

[Jeff K.]

hey all,

I think I have about 6 new members who are the slightest bit enthusiastic about FIRST (they're all freshmen, so that kind of makes me optimistic for 2008, but that's not my point).
-Alaina

They give us freshmen a bad name. I'm a freshmen and I'm already heading some parts of building the robot, actually we just finished the prototype chasis a few hours ago and because the junior was too heavy to ride on it, I rode on it and it was able to push me around, it was cool :D

[NoodleKnight]

Alaina,

Our team had a similar problem during this year, luckily we were able to resolve it all before build season. I'm sure this has been stated multiple times, but regardless, you just need to motivate your teammates (which, in my experience, is hard). Luckily our mentors and veteran students were able to give a few speeches and convince our newer members.

If I can recall, the speeches went somewhere down the line of how they chose to spend over six weeks of their lives working on robots. Then basically everything great about FIRST robotics. You could also try and point out some other (school-related) things about FIRST robotics, like getting the chance to skip two days of school (if applicable) to attend regionals competition -- also mention how fun it is to go to a regional; competition as well as after the competition. If you asked any of our veteran members, I'm sure they'll all say that 1/2 the fun of going to a regional comes from staying at hotels and having the chance to get away from parents and other non-fun school stuff. There's more, I can't think of any at the moment though.

And in regards to the lunch meetings, personally, I want to spend lunch period eating my lunch and not have it mixed in with white lithium grease and metal shavings. If your teachers don't want to dedicate the time, maybe you can find a parent mentor who can... the teacher would just need to provide access to the room you work in.

[indieFan]

You have a really great idea, the one where you make two teams and then put them together...But the problem with that is, I never know which people will show up to a meeting and which ones won't. I don't want to make one person head of the "chassis team" if he/she's going to be at an orchestra rehearsal after school instead. I think band/orchestra is the main thing pulling kids away from the team. That and anime. But I'll try it.

I wouldn't assign one person to head either group since it sounds like they are all novices. I would simply split them all up into two groups. Each individual in the group would be responsible for downloading the instructions. That way, if someone is absent, someone else has the information. In addition, by not assigning a person to be a leader, you will quickly see a leader naturally emerge. All you need to do is guide the groups as to how to get started.

indieFan

[russell]

I am having a similar issue with my team where less than half the people show up. One would think this is a big deal, but then what I mean to say is that three of our 7-10 members show up. But I am actually beginning to like this. Its easier for me to get things done.

As for your teams problem..... Just try to think of ways to make it interesting for them. To expand on someone elses idea, you could have people log hours, then whoever gets the most hours gets first pick at being driver or whatever. Also you should consider getting food at every meeting, and make it clear that in order to be eligible to eat the food they need to be there on time, and have stayed until the end of the previous meeting. I am just guessing that the problem is that they dont know what to do, so just try to come up with tasks. If you dont have a field, then put together a team to make a field. If they manage to screw that up then I dont know what to say.... :confused:

[Wayne C.]

Alaina-
Gee- what do you say to a problem like this? Generally when we recruit kids the first thing we look for is this very same dedication. We normally get about 50 new signups in September but they graduallly dwindle down as the fall fund raising and off season events move on. The ones that remain have a commitment because they invested so much effort in the team prior to the season that they feel it is "their team".

But at this point the team should be mobilized and working and time is running out.

Here are a few suggestions-
1. pick the top 5 kids you have and assign some achievable job for the coming week. Have them report on it to the group. Chances are all the newbies have no idea about what to do with building a robot and don't want to look bad to the group. Neither do they want to be the "labor" without an opinion. But if they develop an responsibility to the group they will perform better as a team.

2. build the kit robot in the next few days. That way they get some experience building something and the controller gets set up and checked out. Then, while the competition bot is in process, the kids have something to play with to get them motivated. It will also show all the adults involved that this team means business and will operate whether they show up or not.

3. get help- Napa's Vintage HS was the National Champ in 2000. Our/their partner was a team led by Dr. Bot (Mr. Federman) of CD fame, also an experienced Ca. firster. I'd check those two sources about getting some help for your team for the interim while your engineer is away.

I know this seems like a tragedy now but if your team is meant to survive it will. I can tell you, you don't want a team full of kids who have no commitment and cannot be relied upon. So when they decide that activity XYZ is more important my response is generally to let them go and fill their spot with someone I can rely on. Each spot on our team is earned and none are irreplaceable- including mine.

Good luck. I'm sure you will get the bot' built. Feel free to PM me if you want to talk,

WC


:cool:

[Leav]

and i thought our situation was bad.... :ahh:

we have about 20 people on our team, out of those 20, about 10 only come on mondays - the one day of the week they must show up. (i.e. minimal effort).

and it really hurts the team.

but on the rest of the week, i can mobilize the hardcore folks (seniors mainly, even though i'm a junior) to get some work done.

When the problem is this drastic, i suggest you go to the highest level - the principal.

tell him/her that you are trying to make this team works, but no one is helping. including the teachers.

ask him/her to announce that the team HAS to meet more, and if they dont that they fail the class or some similar punishment.

my hope is that after a while they will want to come......

-Leav

[MSBlaster]

What everyones been posting so far is good ideas, I myself like to give in to food and lectures every once in a while, as long as they're both together, but have you actually asked the freshmen what they want to do? When i was a sophomore, My level of knowledge on what to do to help the team was as high as the copyright link on this page. And so you can guess, my level of involvement went down as well. But when it came to the actual competition, I found myself doing a lot of work with the strategy gathering, as I had a knack for that. Hence, I'm the strategy leader this year, and until the team actually competes, just try to help where I can.

So what I'm saying is, sit these kids down individually and ask them why their involved with the team. If they say they're on the team to help design the robot, then get them together in a group to brainstorm ideas to design. If they want to build, still get them in that group to brainstorm, but get them to build after the design is done. And as for the teachers, I find that mentioning that it could get them out of the faculty meeting every week usually works quite well in getting their particapation.

[shotgunking777]

well try this it worked for me when i was coaching track. when ever they do somthing good give em some candy it works trust me haha

[patrickrd]

Alaina,

Your situition is a familiar one to me. When I worked to start a team during my freshman year in college, the hardest struggle for me was getting others (teachers and students) excited about the competition. I know very well what it is like to have most of the team sitting around computers playing networked shoot-em video games while a very small number are interested in actually doing work.

In my limited experience, this happens because the students do not know how they can help or do not feel they have anything to offer. The best thing you can do is to try and peel one or two of them away from the computer, and work with them on a problem. Have them help to try and figure out how far two gears have to be spaced apart, for example. Once they understand something simple, and understand how it is useful, they are much more likely to ask more questions and be interested in trying other things. I remember being given a very simple task when I was in my high school FIRST team, and once I realized I could solve a little piece of the puzzle, I immediately became hooked. It is very difficult to see big change quickly. If you can get just a couple of people interested this year, in the long run it can make a huge difference. I've seen disinterested students turn into great leaders. Sometimes the teachers don't see what FIRST does for students right away, and it takes a year or two. But once they do see the positive effects on students, they can become huge proponents of FIRST and your team.

Your thoughtful question and ability to listen to what everyone has suggested suggests maturity, I'm sure you'll develop into a great leader for your team and wherever you choose to go in life.

[EStokely]

There have been great ideas here.

Allow me to add a few of my own.
Look for the dedicated few, is there 1 2 or 3 freshman you can work with?
Grab these guys and concentrate on them. Give them real tasks (as described previously by other posters)
Help them build the drive chassis. Get a moving machine. That is usually a big plus for team spirit.

Keep the lecture positive but I think its a good idea. You may want to say if we don't have a robot then we don't go to regionals.

If nothing else you can set the stage for next year. If you can get a core going they should hold it together.
BTW how are you funded? most teams with this lack of support can't/won't raise the fees needed. If its is outside teh school have the sponser talk to them, what they expect from the team.

Keep us informed and GOOD LUCK

[sirbleedsalot]

This is not a pity post
Our team has a similar problem we had over 50 people show up for the robotics year book picture about a month ago, and now there is 3 seniors and 1 sophomore working on the robot. We have told those other people who were there last year that they have to show up and do there fair share of the work to go on the trip but they don't seem to care. Also do not let distance bother you we do not have a member that drives less than 30 miles to school every day. I know this is a bad thing to say but unless something drastic changes we won't have a team next year and I don't care. If other students don't want to help they won't have a team ( don't feel sorry for the one sophomore that cares because he is my younger brother :) )

[preussrobotics]

I am curious as to whether you've taken any of your team members aside and asked them why they don't come. Perhaps, there are reasons that you are not aware of. Have you talked to your teacher/mentor about this? As a teacher, I am well aware of the constraints that they have on their time.

I would be very careful with a lecture. They can turn a team easily. Many times, for the worse.

[Nitroxextreme]

This is our rookie year and my team is also having issues with detication
There is probably right now a "Dedicated" team of 7 (2 fresh, 2 sof, 3 seniors) and me (sof).
We probably have a total team of about 15-19. However, only a few people know what they are doing and are willing to "do the time".
Any ideas would be helpful

I liked the idea mentioned before about having to put in a certain amount of hours to go to the competition

One more question is it normal to have a team of about 20 with only like 8 coming and working?

[Bharat Nain]

One more question is it normal to have a team of about 20 with only like 8 coming and working? Yes, and its good because those members who are not dedicated are gone, not work well with the group you have. If you can get more dedicated members its good.

[Koko Ed]

I hear way too much on this board about teams that have "dead weight" on their roster and allow them to stay no less. If they don't want to contribute they should be shown the door and there should be some sort of process so you don't end up with them in the first place.
I mean not every kid on our team is the hardest worker in the world but they won't get away with not contributing at all or even slacking for prolonged periods because they know they can't get away with it. We have a system to keep track of their level of dedication and they earn the right to travel with it. The ones that can't or don't put forth the effort usually drop out
Trust me. It works.

[amymac]

Hi, do you have other sort of mentoring support? Even if its just an adult that spend some time with the team to keep people on track and help out, it may help you be more of a leader, and less of a police captain. Ask the other teams in the area if, they know of someone that can assist you for a while.

An occasional lecture may work, but positive motivation will probably work better. We started have students log hours for pretty much any activity they do for the team this year whether it be work on the robot, sell items for fundraise, update the website, etc. They get a certain amount of points for an hour, and to encourage work on some projects we'll double the points. We have one sign in sheet, its they're responsibility to log in and out and let us know how long they work on any other projects. Every month we have a member of the month. Since you have a shorter time period you could have a member of the week each week of the build season. A lot of members thought it was silly at the beginning but invovlement has increased. We are hoping to expand the program to offer a scholarship to the regional for the most points during the season, and continue giving member of the month, semester and eventually year awards. Also our lettering requirements are attached to membership points. You have to be in the top 25% to letter.

Also your team may not have all the skills to feel comfortable contributing. Build some a tetra, or use the kit to construct the base, something that everyone can work on and uses basic machining skills. Another activity would be to prototype with cardboard, tape, and other disposable materials that encourage people to be active and have an end product, but wouldn't require precision skills. While it would have been better to do it earlier, even if you said in 30 minutes prototype a device to pick up a tetra or whatever strategy your working towards, you'll get people moving.

Its also never too late to get more people involved. Let people know what the game is, ask teachers who teach classes related to robotics(which is pretty much everyone) to announce that you still need help, you never know who might pop up.
Amy

[Alaina]

There are a lot of posts I'd like to respond to but I just don't have time! This is extremely overwhelming. Thanks, everyone, for responding. I've gotta start taking notes or something. =P

[Sakura141]

Our team has to do 10 hours of community service, 100 hours of work with the team, mentor one the many Lego Teams our school has, and contribute the the bot somehow.

[Petey]

We have a much more frightening problem--

We began two years ago, so our seniors now were sophomores then. For two years, people from my class have been the driving force of the team. They've designed, programmed, and planned strategy for the robot. We've had a kid from the year below or above our class do some good stuff from time to time, but mainly we're all class-of-2005 driven.

Unfortunately, our team is, for all intents and purposes, graduating this year. I look around the room now, and I see 7 non-seniors out of perhaps 25 students. Out of that total, only about three are actually doing worthwhile things--the rest are checking email, etc.

We're facing the distinct possibility that our team may die after this year. This would be bad, because we've been quite successful in our first two years. I'm worried.

Has anyone else faced these problems? If so, how have you fixed them? How have you recruited new people, reliably and well?

--Petey

[Petey]

I hear way too much on this board about teams that have "dead weight" on their roster and allow them to stay no less. If they don't want to contribute they should be shown the door and there should be some sort of process so you don't end up with them in the first place.
I mean not every kid on our team is the hardest worker in the world but they won't get away with not contributing at all or even slacking for prolonged periods because they know they can't get away with it. We have a system to keep track of their level of dedication and they earn the right to travel with it. The ones that can't or don't put forth the effort usually drop out
Trust me. It works.

This wouldn't work for us, because our entire team would be gone next year. As sad as it is, I fear we may need to recruit many slackers to collaborate to produce even the slightest iota of work .

--Petey

[Barry Bonzack]

This post sounds a lot like troubles I had about 4 months ago. However, I had an advantage of having another 4 months before kickoff to fix things. My first question is how well is your team financially supported? Also I am wondering if you all have a space for your team to build.

I can share other bits of advice I used to help problems out, but many times it is not possible to change personalities of other students. However, there are many ways to recruit new students, perhaps that school 30 miles away would be willing to give a demo during lunch time. Team 233 did this for our school. Feel free to IM me or e-mail me about other suggestions in this area, I've been through a similar situation and continue fighting similar problems. someone once told me "founding a FIRST team is an battle, but an uphill one."

The best thing I can share is that without teacher sponsors, you are sunk. I asked FIRST NEMO about this problem I had at one point, and they had many ideas. FIRST NEMO is an invaluable source for information for topics such as these, and they were able to help see me through the forest during some times that looked bleak.

Regarding teachers from Jenny "Robomom" Beatty of FIRST NEMO:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bonzack1390
an just one teacher to help with the I guess what I was really asking was for more way to get teachers wanting to help be a sponsor for the team. How do other teams spark interest into teachers, even the ones that know nothing about engineering?


Team 007 has the same problem. Only one teacher. This can contribute to really high burnout. So what they started doing is writing a great letter, attending the first faculty meeting the administration will let them come to and asking faculty to sign up for just one evening during the build. We've gotten a good response. The teachers are just required to be there so many do their own work. But the benefit has been that teachers from around the school (English, French, music, science, guidance counselors, etc) get to see what the team is doing. They are genuinely amazed. Last year the team asked them to write a paragraph of their impressions and these were wonderful to read. They go into our "Q-Log" where we keep everything for the team. It has helped let the faculty(2000+ kids, I don't know how many staff) see what the team is doing. One of the English teachers then volunteered to proof read the Chairman's. One of the art teachers volunteered to help with a logo (2 years ago when they needed something to put in the program book-they don't do that anymore) Anyway, it ripples out wards.Most teachers are willing to sign up for 3-4 hours, knowing it is only once. Many then signed up for a second evening.

We would love to have a second teacher mentoring, but this has been tough to find. You try to do the best with the cards you are dealt.
Jenny

[cdawzrd]

What our team does is we have to log in a certain number of hours during the build phase in order to be able to go to the competitions. Maybe that is a motive to get kids to come, hope you have better luck!

Our team has a fair bit of competition for the driving spots. We hold a "drivers-ed" test, but also, people must have good attendance to be allowed to try out to drive. People who barely ever show up are not allowed to be in the pit at all during the competition.

Ya gotta tempt them. If they don't have the drive, they dont have the drive. If you can't find something or some aspect of FIRST that interests them, you might want to find some new people.

Tough luck, and I wish you well.

Jonathan

[sirbleedsalot]

I will probaly be driving this year not because I reallly want to, but because no body else wants the stress. That is the way it has always been on our team who gets the short straw, at least for competitions.

[RoboMom]

Alaina, you need some help. You cannot do this all yourself and it sounds like you are trying to. Just some suggestions.
Have the main contact update the TIMS. Your team is no longer in a postion to mentor others. Your team needs someone to mentor them. Look at the list of teams willing to mentor and see if any are close. Contact them. Be very specific about what you need. Do you need an engineering mentor? Say so. Much of this can be done long distance. Do you need someone on another team to come in and give an inspirational talk? Ask.
But the bigger issue is that you need a team. As Woodie says "The robot is the campfire they all gather around." My impression in reading your post is that most on your team are overwhelmed. With so many rookies, they don't have any reference with what this is all about. You've been to a competition. They haven't. Yelling and threats usually don't work. Respect is earned. You and the mentors on the team need to figure out how to get each interested team member involved as soon as possible. Most freshman are not in a position to just sit down and do something without some direction and guidance. It is very time consuming, but that is what this is all about. The process. Your team is having one of those rough years that most teams go through. Sit down with the adults and figure out the priorities. Which things the teams can put on the back burner this year. Maybe instead of the Championship and the local regional, you just go to the local. Develop a system to earn your way to travel. Get as many parents to help as possible. Parents are one of the best resources FIRST has and some will jump at the chance to become involved in a high school project, because there are so few opportunites.
Have one of the adults signed up on the TIMS join NEMO to get some hints and to post questions.
You have a lot of work ahead of you. You are obviously very committed. Good luck. There are many great suggestions here.

[Collmandoman]

[QUOTE=pakrat]You should try using insentives, like give people little bits of candy if they come to meetings. Also, hjave like attendance awards, and you might want to think about attendance requirements for being a driver ( i bet some people would come then). I dunno, but those sound like the best ideas.
YEAH! .................................................. .
or............................................
..............
find kids who actually want to pursue engineering...
but the best way to keep interest is to have people come back that know the atmosphere of a regional/championship weekend =)

[Kevin Casper]

hey all,

This year has been very difficult for me. I am the only student who has been on my team for more than one season. And even current seniors who were involved last year mainly helped at the end of the season, so they don't know a whole lot about building a robot.

I think I have about 6 new members who are the slightest bit enthusiastic about FIRST (they're all freshmen, so that kind of makes me optimistic for 2008, but that's not my point). I was the only upper-classman (out of 9) at my team's kickoff party. Then later some mentors showed up, and we strategized while the freshmen played video games.

It's not like I don't tell my team how the build season works. I send out at least 2 emails to the robotics list (yay for technology schools) every day. Whether we meet at lunch or after school most people don't show up. Yesterday we were supposed to have a brainstorming session yesterday and I was the only one there. It was extremely disappointing.

We currently don't have an engineering mentor. The engineer who owns our workspace is leaving on Monday to be in England for 3 weeks. I'm sure he'll let us access our workspace but it's going to be a struggle to get any good designs without an expert opinion. And it seems like my team just wants to sit around until he gets back!

What disappoints me the most is how my teachers don't want to spend any time outside of school to work on this. I thought they were here to help us?




oh god, I have almost the opposite problem in a weird way. Instead of being the highschoolers not being motivated it is the mentors who aren't motivated. Well aren't motivated to do certain things. For instance we currently have on the order of 40 mentor college students and 12 highschool students. The leaders of the team have no problem recruiting on campus, however for all of that publicity stuff, such as recruiting and mentoring Highschool students, well there is currently discussion about making a new PR position on the exec board to do that. After all they are engineering majors and don't know how to do that. Thus they don't have to. Also some IDIOT started advertising that we are really a college FIRST team that keeps HS students aroung "just to drive the robot".

Now I'm being told that well, designing the robot is more for college students skill level, programming and wiring the robot is too hard and better done by college students, Highschool students don't need to be at the kickoff. However we will gladly let them do the animation and reports. I'm at the rate of receiving one or two of these off hand comments at every meeting.

The ironic thing, our main organization advisor will take a look at what these skilled mentors want to do and then go back to his shop and do something else similar but might work. Our skilled mentors probably won't help much anyway unless he instructs them at every step.

I'll admit I've been guity of this from time to time, and this isn't entirely unusual for the team. This year is worse than the last 5 years I've been on the team.

[Sleepyrook]

hey all,

This year has been very difficult for me. I am the only student who has been on my team for more than one season. And even current seniors who were involved last year mainly helped at the end of the season, so they don't know a whole lot about building a robot.

I think I have about 6 new members who are the slightest bit enthusiastic about FIRST (they're all freshmen, so that kind of makes me optimistic for 2008, but that's not my point). I was the only upper-classman (out of 9) at my team's kickoff party. Then later some mentors showed up, and we strategized while the freshmen played video games.

It's not like I don't tell my team how the build season works. I send out at least 2 emails to the robotics list (yay for technology schools) every day. Whether we meet at lunch or after school most people don't show up. Yesterday we were supposed to have a brainstorming session yesterday and I was the only one there. It was extremely disappointing.

We currently don't have an engineering mentor. The engineer who owns our workspace is leaving on Monday to be in England for 3 weeks. I'm sure he'll let us access our workspace but it's going to be a struggle to get any good designs without an expert opinion. And it seems like my team just wants to sit around until he gets back!

What disappoints me the most is how my teachers don't want to spend any time outside of school to work on this. I thought they were here to help us?

A 3-day weekend is coming up and we'll only be meeting one of those days. I really wanted to have a running robot by the end of the weekend. But we can't do that because we don't have a) a workspace or b) adult supervision. On Monday we are going to use a kid's garage to work and that's it. Hopefully we'll get our workspace back by Wednesday.

How can I convince my team that I can't do this by myself? I want them to know what FIRST is and what build season is like, but it seems like none of them are interested enough. I hope you don't take this post the wrong way. What I've said here is definitely not a first thought. For anybody who has read all of this, I appreciate you 'listening' and hopefully you could give me some advice.

Have a good MLK weekend

-Alaina


Honestly, I think you're pittying yourself too much. Many times have no mentors, and no teacher assistance and the robots are built by a few dedicated indidividuals with most of the team coming and going as they please and only offering a bit of help. After leading a team 2 years and helping out a third, I realized the reason people don't show up is b/c they usually don't have anything to do or feel like they can't do it. If you can figure out a way to make people busy all the time and make them feel like they've accomplished something, they will usually stick around. In the long run though, you don't want people who aren't that excited about the whole proceess showing up b/c they just provide a distraction to the rest of the team.



In order to get around the lack of adult supervision, I had everyone sign agreements that essentially negaited the effects of having adult supervision, and if it's of any consolation, our "teacher sponsor" literally did nothing throughout the entire competition, he didn't even go to the local kickoff and every year we had to convince the people running it to let 2 kids to sign for the parts. Just know that it could be worse.

Also, having a running robot by the first weekend of the competition is probably a bad idea since it would have been designed/thoughtout all that well and completely *unless you're just talking about making the drive kit/chassis that came with the parts

Anyways, goodluck with inspiring the team. Lead by example, and don't schedule unneccsary and annoying meetings, b/c people would get tired of showing up and doing nothing.

[fabbuki]

My team is very dedicated. Why? Well, for one we have a very vigorous acceptance process. Only the most interested students are allowed into Robotics, and they have to show their interest throughout one school year by entering into engineering contests and etc.

It's sad to hear your team is not dedicated. Try to make meetings fun and offer lunches to them or something. Good luck. Find any teacher who will help you. Find a physics teacher.

-fabbuki

[DDRAngelKurumi]

This is my first year, but I am one of three upper classmen on the team. The rest of them are freshmen who think we are about to compete in Robot Wars

"Let's build spikes!" *rolls eyes* How about not! ANyways, good luck!

[Gary C]

I think I have about 6 new members who are the slightest bit enthusiastic about FIRST (they're all freshmen, so that kind of makes me optimistic for 2008, but that's not my point). I was the only upper-classman (out of 9) at my team's kickoff party. Then later some mentors showed up, and we strategized while the freshmen played video games.

-Alaina

Our team has very few seniors or even people who have been here over one season, or even seen one real competition, I'm a freshman myself. Our programmer is a freshman, our treasurer is a freshman, and our vice president has never seen any competition. We have problems in keeping people busy, so what we do is that we have to do lists when there is nothing else to do.

-Gary

[shotgunking777]

i don't blame you a lot of team meber's don't have real dedication. and honestly nither do i. why should i i do nothing for the team een when i try and no one likes me. im so unwanted on my team. :mad: :( );

[Mark McLeod]

i don't blame you a lot of team meber's don't have real dedication. and honestly nither do i. why should i i do nothing for the team een when i try and no one likes me. im so unwanted on my team. :mad: :( );I like you:D, otherwise I wouldn't give you rides all the time.

[Haldir 122690]

i don't blame you a lot of team meber's don't have real dedication. and honestly nither do i. why should i i do nothing for the team een when i try and no one likes me. im so unwanted on my team. );
__________________
50% but thats almost half!

Tom, don't worry. I'm behind you 100%. Besides, only some of the people are uninspired. Inspiring them can be your job. I'm so gratefull of you placing this request, for it is on the hearts of many of our team too.

Just kidding.

That comment was uncalled for and not true, Tom.

[shotgunking777]

Tom, don't worry. I'm behind you 100%. Besides, only some of the people are uninspired. Inspiring them can be your job. I'm so gratefull of you placing this request, for it is on the hearts of many of our team too.

Just kidding.

That comment was uncalled for and not true, Tom.




im not really the type of person that really can or wants to inspire other people. its never been anypart of a strong point for me. and its true i am inspired but... after a while looking at chiefdelpgi.com all day in school when your bored and then looking at it again and again at roboics it gets kinda boring. and i really don't think their is a lot of respect for me in the room by a few people(not saying any names::ill be nice::) but like its starting to be like im just going to like snap and start breaking things(not the robot) but like i went to the old hospital on 347 to takeout some of my anger and i broke 4 windows with my fist. i just feel like i can't do it any more thats why ive been leaving early. :|

[shotgunking777]

I like you:D, otherwise I wouldn't give you rides all the time.


i know you do mr. mcleod and thanks it means a lot to me. but come back and read my other replay to the guy under you.

[Arefin Bari]

i don't blame you a lot of team meber's don't have real dedication. and honestly nither do i. why should i i do nothing for the team een when i try and no one likes me. im so unwanted on my team. :mad: :( );


You might think that your team doesnt want you, but truly even if its a bit, your team does want you or they would have made you quit the team a long time ago.

This is coming from my own experience (from the past 4 years I have been in FIRST), Are you in it because of your team wanting you or are you in it because of who you are? Dont give up, because that is when you lose what you have. FIRST is the best experience that I have had throughout my entire life and there is no way, ANYONE can make me quit FIRST.


-Arefin.

[patTeam241]

Just a thought I had. The biggest attraction for me as a freshman (I'm now a senior) was seeing the previous years robot run around. Do you have one, if so, let the kids drive it to get them interested, also, if you have the kitbot done, let them drive that. Then, once they are somewhat excited, pull off the robot controllers (if you can) and tell them they can drive again when the robot is done. I don't know if it will work, but it might.

[Alaina]

Hello again!

Well, since the season is officially over for my team, I thought that some people might want to hear about how we ended up.

We went to the Sacramento regional and did pretty good. We took 7 students (3 freshies and 4 seniors), 2 teachers, 1 engineer/dad and 1 college mentor. We didn't win any awards or anything, but we did end up in 6th place, and made it to the semi-finals. None of us were expecting to be that successful. I mean, we just had a dull kit-bot with a finecky arm. I guess we just had good drivers! We spent every night at the hotel "bonding." And by "bonding" I mean playing Cranium. :D It was a lot of fun.

For a few weeks we didn't really do anything as a group. We made $108 on a "Dine and Donate" fundraiser last week. And yesterday we had a party at Anna's house. It was great because Anna's family is so fun and creative--they have a huge trampline, a tight-rope, etc. Anna's Dad even brought out 2 RC cars and made a course around the yard so we could race. But the driver was blindfolded and had a partner to instruct them.

After all the fun we watched videos from Sacramento and brainstormed on fundraising/publicisizing ourselves. Mr. Bozeday is a natural at conducting brainstorming sessions...

After brainstorming we finalized the party with "awards." Actually they were the participation medals from the regional. We handed them out by going around the room, giving thanks to the person for whatever contribution he/she gave to the team, and then giving them the medal. It was really emotional for me, (I'm really surprised I didn't cry!) because everyone that was there worked so hard and I'm so grateful for their participation. We're all best friends and I think I'm right when I say this is the tightest team Napa has ever had. And I can't wait to officially be a mentor in the seasons to come.

[JackN]

Do you think you will ever have this problem again?

[Masterfork]

Alaina,
I am very sorry to hear that this is happening to your team.
A few things regrading this issue I have posted here. (http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/showthread.php?p=304552#post304552)
However, that situation was slightly different than yours.

If I were in your position, I would do two things... give them a lecture and a reality check (like Bharat said, not overly negative), and take a few actions of my own.

Lecture:

I think that your team is at a point where everyone can either start getting motivated and organized now, or not be able to have a season at all. If you are the only one on your team who is dedicated to make it happen, then most likely it won't (Not to say that you can't take on alot, because you already are, but FIRST is designed to be a team effort! There is no way only one person can do it by themselves!).

If I were the one saying this lecture, here is how it would go:

"This team is at a turning point. In order for us to have a season, we need to either come together as a group and focus on this, or we will not be competing at all. I know that you can make this happen if you want to, but only if you want to.

You need to make a choice about your personal priorities. If you want to get this team together, you MUST communicate with me. This means that you need to reply when I email you. This means that you need to show up to meetings when you say that you will. If you know that you are not going to dedicate yourself to this team and to this effort, then you shouldn't be here. This also means that you can't be doing things like playing video games while we need to get work done. I know that you can improve this, but I want you to realize that things have got to change if we are to pull through this year."

Actions:

As for getting your robot complete, why don't you start out by having them build the kitbot and then work from there? It can be assembled quite quickly, and may be a good starting point to get them motivated. you can even try to assign them roles for the different aspects of the robots construction...roles are good because they give a more focused and dynamic feel to the group.

Also try to assign deadlines for the completion of certain tasks. Deadlines will give your team a better sense for the urgency of the situation.

Above all, make it clear that it is ultimately their choice; only they can save the team. If they choose not to, then you may be forced to let go of the team for a year. But I would rather have no team at all than be faced with the frustrating task of trying to do it all by myself.

Avoid defeatism however; add some optimism to your conduct with them by making it clear that they CAN do this... they DO have the capability to pull this off, and it is not too late to change things for the better. All they need to do is focus. Once they are focused, anything is possible.

Hope this helps. Please continue to update us on your team's progress.

-- Jaine
well we had that same sort of problem happen to our band you have to shock them to reality by either not letting them go to the competitions or by kicking them out of the team and recruiting better more wanting to work kids by just telling all the people you know and just tell them if they want to be on the team they must spend so much hours on the robot during the build season and come to all the meetings

that should seed out the slackers that just waste time