View Full Version : ROBOT PICTURES!!!!!!!!
Tom McCurdy
21-01-2005, 15:18
www.quantumninja.com/firstpictures
When I asked about where I could get some robot pictures I was told www.firstrobotics.net When I went there I was impressed with the massive amount of pictures available, but thought the design could be improved slightly. I spent much of the last couple days dowloading one by one all 1419 pictures on the site. I put them onto a new site that I made for displaying and archiving the pictures. The site allows you view pictures in groups (versus having to load all the pictures in a section) and will be updated constantly. It also looks a little nicer than the firstrobotics site. I will also shortly be adding zip folders of the entire picture collection, and by individual year. The site also allows users to upload pictures, versus having to email the pictures to the guy.
If you have any suggestions please let me know.
I think you will enjoy the new site.
www.quantumninja.com/firstpictures
goalie086
21-01-2005, 15:23
I like the organization of the pictures...a lot easier than searching through hundreds of pictures at once. Also the layout of our team's website is impressive Tom. Well done. :D
Tom McCurdy
21-01-2005, 15:28
I like the organization of the pictures...a lot easier than searching through hundreds of pictures at once. Also the layout of our team's website is impressive Tom. Well done. :D
Thanks Kevin,
Also if any teams know who won regionals or national's that would be nice. I can add it to the descriptions to specific bots. Also if you would like to add a description to your particular robot just let me know and I can add it.
It's cool... but it doesn't have team numbers. That really takes away a lot of the usefulness. I'm still gonna keep going to firstrobotics.net because I wont have to click every picture to find the team I want.
Tom McCurdy
21-01-2005, 16:37
I will be adding the names shortly.. give me some time lol
Also right now if you just hold the mouse on top of a thumbnail you can see what team they are from.
Tom McCurdy
21-01-2005, 16:47
ALSO -- You can search for a specific team number say
you type in 190 in the search forum
you can see all the bots team 190 has built over the years...
EDIT: I have added titles up through the year 1999 I will add the titles below for the rest of the years when I get home. The search still works for all years just use numbers only.
I like the search function, but when you put in say "68" you get teams 368 and 168 also. There away to do it different.
I like the search function, but when you put in say "68" you get teams 368 and 168 also. There away to do it different.
Can't you type in say "068" instead?
No, 068 still gives you 1068, but 0068 works.
Thanks for the help.
David Guzman
21-01-2005, 18:22
I think the web site is very good. It is organized and easy to use, also the search feature is awsome.
Keep up the good work!!!
David
miketwalker
21-01-2005, 18:30
I like the idea, but have you contacted the guy who did FIRSTRobotics.net first? I know he's put many many many hours into organizing all of those photos, and to just take the photos (yes, I know they're not his... but he spent a great deal of time to organize them) off of his site without at least communicating with him? It's not very professional imho, because of his time and effort.
KVermilion
21-01-2005, 19:35
Copyright infringement, anyone? :rolleyes:
man do our robots look sexy ;)
Tom McCurdy
21-01-2005, 21:36
I have added the team names under all categories now... wow it takes a long time to type out 1,419 team numbers under them... but it is done. I will contact the owner of firstrobotics and tell him about the site, without the initial work done by that person this site would not be possible, however I also put in a LOT of my own sweat into this site.
KVermilion
21-01-2005, 22:14
I have added the team names under all categories now... wow it takes a long time to type out 1,419 team numbers under them... but it is done. I will contact the owner of firstrobotics and tell him about the site, without the initial work done by that person this site would not be possible, however I also put in a LOT of my own sweat into this site.
Yes, sweating is justification for copyright infringement.
Tom McCurdy
21-01-2005, 22:17
Yes, sweating is justification for copyright infringement.
Firstrobotics wasn't the rightful owner of all of those images... and I don't believe anyone went through the process to get an offical copyright on their images... If any teams want their pictures of their robots removed I will. In short I don't believe I did any sort of copyright infringement
Tom McCurdy
21-01-2005, 22:18
I am adding in the descriptions if the team won particular awards... so far all I can find is chairman's award... so the winners of the chairman's award will have it labeld under their robot for that year.
KVermilion
21-01-2005, 22:20
Firstrobotics wasn't the rightful owner of all of those images... and I don't believe anyone went through the process to get an offical copyright on their images... If any teams want their pictures of their robots removed I will. In short I don't believe I did any sort of copyright infringement
So you can re-steal them?
Mike Ciance
21-01-2005, 23:49
very nice site. i like the setup a lot. :D
www.quantumninja.com/firstpictures
When I asked about where I could get some robot pictures I was told www.firstrobotics.net When I went there I was impressed with the massive amount of pictures available, but thought the design could be improved slightly. I spent much of the last couple days dowloading one by one all 1419 pictures on the site. I put them onto a new site that I made for displaying and archiving the pictures. The site allows you view pictures in groups (versus having to load all the pictures in a section) and will be updated constantly. It also looks a little nicer than the firstrobotics site. I will also shortly be adding zip folders of the entire picture collection, and by individual year. The site also allows users to upload pictures, versus having to email the pictures to the guy.
If you have any suggestions please let me know.
I think you will enjoy the new site.
www.quantumninja.com/firstpictures
Wow. The site is very impressive, and it is obvious that you put a lot of work into it. It is very nice, and your efforts show.
However, having said that, there is a real problem. You openly admit that these are not your photographs. You have pilfered them from another site, and are using them without permission and without giving credit to the original photohgrapher/owner. At the very least - and there isn't really a nice way to say this - this is blatant plagarism. You are not crediting the owner/photographer of the image, and leaving the impression this is your own work. All you do is note which team's robot is in the image, but not the person that created the image. In the worst case, it may be a totally illegal copyright infringment and a criminal offense (the fact that an image is not displaying the (c) copyright symbol does not mean that it is not copyrighted; the only way to know for sure is to ask the original photographer/owner). In either case, it is improper. The fact that you put in a lot of work and additional material does not change the fact that the photographs are not yours are you are using them without permission.
Firstrobotics wasn't the rightful owner of all of those images... and I don't believe anyone went through the process to get an offical copyright on their images... If any teams want their pictures of their robots removed I will. In short I don't believe I did any sort of copyright infringement.
Whether FirstRobotics used the images with or without permission is immaterial. YOU do not have permission to use the photographs. Whether the photographer registered the image for a copyright certification is also immaterial. Unless you have direct permission from the owner of the image, or explicit knowledge that they have placed the image in the public domain, then including the images in your public database is improper.
And to top it all off, your home page is particularly inappropriate for an activity like FIRST. Is that the sort of public image that you want to have associated with your team? Perhaps more important, do they want that to be the impression that the public has of them?
-dave
KVermilion
22-01-2005, 00:03
Whether FirstRobotics used the images with or without permission is immaterial. YOU do not have permission to use the photographs. Whether the photographer registered the image for a copyright certification is also immaterial. Unless you have direct permission from the owner of the image, or explicit knowledge that they have placed the image in the public domain, then including the images in your public database is improper.
And to top it all off, your home page is particularly inappropriate for an activity like FIRST. Is that the sort of public image that you want to have associated with your team? Perhaps more important, do they want that to be the impression that the public has of them?
Bingo.
That's why I use creative commons for all my stuff. If they hot link the image without giving me credit, modify it, etc... there's hell to pay.
Tom McCurdy
22-01-2005, 00:20
I am sorry about your feelings... however these are uncopyrighted pictures. Also I have emailed the owner of www.firstrobotics.net and told him about the site and am waiting for a response. I am also trying to figure out the best way to show some credit to the owner of firstrobotics for collecting the pictures
About the homepage.... umm I share hosting with my friends the quantumninja crew and we a very close group of friends which is what the main site is used for. I recently discovered the homepage picture and am changing it now. I am sorry for those who saw it... it was not associated with the team.
I am sorry about your feelings... however these are uncopyrighted pictures. Also I have emailed the owner of www.firstrobotics.net and told him about the site and am waiting for a response. I am also trying to figure out the best way to show some credit to the owner of firstrobotics for collecting the pictures
About the homepage.... umm I share hosting with my friends the quantumninja crew and we a very close group of friends which is what the main site is used for. I recently discovered the homepage picture and am changing it now. I am sorry for those who saw it... it was not associated with the team.
I'm sorry, but you still don't get it. Just because the site you took the images from did or did not have permission to use them does not make any difference. YOU don't have permission from the original photographer to use them. Even if the FirstRobotics web site has permission to use the photos, they do not have the right to grant you permission to use the photos, unless explicitly granted that right by the photographer. The only photographs that FirstRobotics can give you permission to use are the ones that they took themselves, or ones for which full rights of ownership have been transferred.
Photographs, just like any work of art or written prose, belong to the photographer/artist/author. They may grant others the right to reproduce the works for distribution, but those rights are not transferrable unless explicitly granted by the photographer/artist/author. Unless they specifically give up their rights and place the work into the public domain, they retain all rights of ownership. Whether they go to the extent of filing for a registered copyright doesn't matter - they still own the works. And you must obtain the permission of the owner to use them.
Also, note that all the pictures on that site ARE copyrighted. Just becuase they may not be registered copyrights does not matter. Under the definition of copyright, "copyright protection subsists from the time the work is created in fixed form. The copyright in the work of authorship immediately becomes the property of the author who created the work... No publication or registration or other action in the Copyright Office is required to secure copyright" (reference: 1976 Copyright Act, Circular 1, United States Copyright Office).
Therefore, unless you have explicit permission from the photographer that took the images (and you have made it clear that you do not), then you are committing copyright infringement. And becuase you have not provided appropriate credit to the originator of the photographs, you are committing plagarism.
-dave
Well I love the site, but I hate to say it but think Mr. Lavery is right. But please do try to fix these problems, as the site is an excellent resource.
I am sorry about your feelings... however these are uncopyrighted pictures. Also I have emailed the owner of www.firstrobotics.net and told him about the site and am waiting for a response. I am also trying to figure out the best way to show some credit to the owner of firstrobotics for collecting the pictures.
I don't want to rehash a discussion on intellectual property rights because it's something we've examined before. However, photographs are copyright and no formal filing is required. There is a photograph on www.firstrobotics.net that I took and it is not free to use as you please.
E-mailing the host of a website after you've stolen their work shows absolutely no true regard nor care for the work that person did to realize the www.firstrobotics.net site. I would view it as little more than an arrogant insult.
Joe Menassa
22-01-2005, 03:59
I myself being a photographer can agree with many of the above comments about copyright infringement. Although I am not positive where firstrobotics.net originally got their photographs from, they may have been submitted from each team, making it totally legit.
I have seen things like this happen on other photography forums and it usually isn't a pretty fight.
What I highly recommend doing is taking down the site for now. -I do like it, it is well done, but you cant just take other peoples photos, especially by stealing off another site.
What you should do is start your own legit site. Either in this thread or maybe start a new one, announcing that you want to make a very organized robot showcase site. Then ask people to email you photos of their robots with proper permission of use. I'm sure people will want their photos displayed on your site, just start from scratch- The way everything should be.
-If I remember correctly, when firstrobotics.net was launched they asked everyone for photos...but I could be wrong.
I know I would gladly send you some photos of the 121 robot when it is completed.
good luck
If I remember correctly, when firstrobotics.net was launched they asked everyone for photos...but I could be wrong.
A lot of the pictures uploaded to firstrobotics.net seem to be from the chiefdelphi galleries. I know that the pictures in there of Team 100 over the last 2 years were submitted by myself to the Chiefdelphi gallery, and not firstrobotics.net, so some if not all of them aren't coming from the photographer.
activemx
22-01-2005, 04:41
A lot of the pictures uploaded to firstrobotics.net seem to be from the chiefdelphi galleries. I know that the pictures in there of Team 100 over the last 2 years were submitted by myself to the Chiefdelphi gallery, and not firstrobotics.net, so some if not all of them aren't coming from the photographer.
Cory is right, i myself never submited any photographs i took in behalf of 115. I did put it on chiefdelphi, and i did not grant permission to firstrobotics.net to put up the pictures. Since it is just a resource i just left it alone. I think we are taking this matter to seriously. I dont think he has any wrong intentions so i think we should lay off. I do think Tom, you should take down the pictures for the time being and request teams to submit their own pictures. just my opinion.
Come on! It is not like he is trying to make money on this. He is trying to make a place where teams can easily research what other teams have done in the past.
Now I except everyone that thinks that what he did was wrong to go up to you local police department and turn yourselves in for speeding. I know you've done it at one time or another.
Laws are out there because they have to be, but everyone knows that most of the time everyone just looks the other way. I am looking the other way.
Thanks for the nice site.
Greg Needel
22-01-2005, 08:35
i think i understand the intellectual property involved and technically Dave is right but at the same time since most of the photos are from these forums would Brandon Martus actually have permission to distribute since he "owns" the photos now?
anyway i think we are going way to far with this because he was just doing something to improve the FIRST community and while i agree that proper intellectual property laws should be followed i think instead of fighting over if he is correct or not, we should be looking for a solution so that teams can continue to use this resource.
on a side note:i took the pictures from team 73 and 1405 from last year and you have permission to use them
Tom McCurdy
22-01-2005, 09:10
Thank you for your responses...
I am still debating on ethics but as of now I have decided not to take down the picture site. I am not trying to gain any sort of money from this site in any fashion and am kind of shocked to see the response I have gotten from FIRST. FIRST is a competition that doesn't stress winning as much as it stresses learning and sharing. Why do you think they value the chairman's award so highly. If you can think of any particular reason that your team would not like their photograph on the website then contact me and I will remove it from the site immediately. Also I don't understand why you guys are so mad at me... getting on my case so much, like others have mentioned Firstrobotics.net has done they same thing. They get pictures from other sources and post them on there net. We are supose to be a community... not getting angry over a photo of a robot. You should be happy to display the hard work of the teams and respect the work they did.
Also I am adding a link to firstrobotics to the home page
Tom McCurdy
22-01-2005, 10:47
I also have recently got in contact with the owner of FIRSTrobotics.net I am going to have a talk with him to see about his feelings. Hopefully we can get this whole thing sorted out. :]
Jason Rudolph
22-01-2005, 10:53
Well, I guess, as the owner of FIRSTrobotics.net, I should finally chime in here.
A large majority of the pictures on the site were either taken by myself at various competitions, or submitted to me by people from teams. While I am sure there are some photos on the site which I was not given to by the original photographer, these would be the exception and not the rule. I have always made it explicitly clear that if someone wanted something taken off the site, it would be, as is evident by the main page of the site. All I could really think of when I first read about this page it this.....
GRACIOUS PROFFESIONALISM
that is all I have to say, any more bashing of anyone is really not needed...
Tom McCurdy
22-01-2005, 20:01
I wish I could have a conversation with you in some sort of live time system if you have any instant messenging device such as
AIM
MSN
YAHOO
or if you would like to meet in a chat room please let me know a time and date so we may discuss a couple of things related to the issue of our sites
thanks
tom
Collmandoman
22-01-2005, 20:16
static~~
After reviewing the main web page that all the photos are hosted on by yourself i am going to ask you in a pleasant manor to please remove them. I can almost guarantee you that any teams photo that you have hosted on there does not want to be associated with. Unless you have written consent from those teams to host their images on a website that contains explicit photos, please remove them.
Tom McCurdy
23-01-2005, 00:34
I am very sorry for those of you who saw the main page. I am currently dealing with the problem. I had the image delted once and it was put back... so I am updating passwords. I also redirected the main page so that if you type in www.quantumninja.com you will go to the picture page instead. I am very very sorry for those of you who saw the old picture... please don't assoicate it with the Quantum Ninja first team... we only have the same hosting. The picture was put up as a joke and is being dealt with. I also recieved this email
I am sorry that I have not been able to get in contact with you as you would like, but I am extremely busy, and really don't have the time. Today was basically my only day off for the next month, as I am extremely busy in the studio, and am prepping for the equivalent of the Grammy's for the spanish market (I am a lighting designer/programmer).
You have given credit on the main page, which I am happy with, but it would also be nice if you put in the info on each picture that it came from FIRSTrobotics.net I am not going to try and stop what you have done in any way, as long as you give credit where credit is due. I would suggest that you find another domain to host it off of, as the main page of that domain is not the most pleasant of sites.
Jason Rudolph
You can also e-mail me at [removed for privacy], that's the best way to reach me.
Tom McCurdy
23-01-2005, 01:52
Well this should make some of you happy I have taken the following actions.
Contacted the Owner of Firstrobotics.net
Met and gone beyond his requests
Added Chairman's Awards under descriptions
Added year for each robot
added source under every single picture.... almost all of which is firstrobotics.net
Fixed the image on our homepage
Provided temp redirect of main page to picture page
I am also looking on trying to add which robots won national pictures. I will shortly be putting a new thread asking for pictures/suggestions for new categories such as team members etc.
Brandon Martus
23-01-2005, 12:48
I'll suppose I will chime in as well.
We provide pictures on ChiefDelphi.com as a central place where you can go view them while you're discussing robotics. All pictures, once uploaded, are publically accessable and fair game as far as I'm concerned. If we didn't want you to download them, we'd put measure into place that would disallow that (showing them via flash, etc). If you didn't want them to be available, you wouldn't upload them. I, personally, just hope that if you're spidering anybodies galleries for images you would let them know or give them credit on your site.
-Brandon
Alex Cormier
23-01-2005, 13:08
heres a great thread to find out what teams have won what awards. http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/showthread.php?t=20024&highlight=lists+winners
Tom McCurdy
23-01-2005, 14:09
heres a great thread to find out what teams have won what awards. http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/showthread.php?t=20024&highlight=lists+winners
Is that all from 2004?
Alex Cormier
23-01-2005, 16:22
Is that all from 2004?
well what i saw under newton which my team was under that we had won the judges award but we had that in 03' so im guessing the teams in nats that have won any awards.
bradleym1559
23-01-2005, 17:41
Great website!
I would like you to verify that you have removed the images of those who requested it, and retrieved premission to use the images that were not taken by Jason Randolph. Those people would be
- Cory of team 100, who stated that the images on FIRSTrobotics.net taken by her were not given with premission
- ActiveMX from team 115 in the same situation
- M Krass of team 488 who explicitly denies you premission to use her photograph from FIRSTrobotics.net
An interesting discussion has sprung from this. Next time it would be more professional of you to wait until you have premission to make things public. Part of Gracious Professionalism is thinking ahead, and thinking about the outcomes of your actions. Not just the product, but the whole outcome. This could have been avoided if you had waited a few days to talk to Jason Randolph first, and to check the sources. I would have to agree with Joe Menassa that the best way to do this is to solicit submissions. That way no one's feelings (or laws) get hurt.
That said, nice job, and I hope that a lesson was learned here and can be passed on to others. Please work on making sure all the images are legit.
Your work is very much appreciated by all and your intentions were that of very good. I dont think that anything along the lines of GP were violated.
I would like you to verify that you have removed the images of those who requested it, and retrieved premission to use the images that were not taken by Jason Randolph. Those people would be
- Cory of team 100, who stated that the images on FIRSTrobotics.net taken by her were not given with premission
- ActiveMX from team 115 in the same situation
- M Krass of team 488 who explicitly denies you premission to use her photograph from FIRSTrobotics.net
An interesting discussion has sprung from this. Next time it would be more professional of you to wait until you have premission to make things public. Part of Gracious Professionalism is thinking ahead, and thinking about the outcomes of your actions. Not just the product, but the whole outcome. This could have been avoided if you had waited a few days to talk to Jason Randolph first, and to check the sources. I would have to agree with Joe Menassa that the best way to do this is to solicit submissions. That way no one's feelings (or laws) get hurt.
That said, nice job, and I hope that a lesson was learned here and can be passed on to others. Please work on making sure all the images are legit.
I don't care that my pictures were used, I was just stating there was no notification given. That's also unfair to Tom, because firstrobotics.net also used them without permission, so please don't single him out in this one instance.
I don't care that my pictures were used, I was just stating there was no notification given. That's also unfair to Tom, because firstrobotics.net also used them without permission, so please don't single him out in this one instance.
That was not the intention at all. I just want to make sure that everything is legit. Because you said something I think it was important to address it, that's all. There were, however, some who did not give premission, and I want to make sure they were taken care of too.
Sam
dk5sm5luigi
23-01-2005, 23:52
One thing I noticed is that the robots for 1992 and 1993 are reversed.
Tom McCurdy
24-01-2005, 14:15
I have corrected the mistake thanks for pointing it out.
Doesn anyone have any suggestions of new categories that I could have at the site. I am thinking right now that I will add a Kickoff section... and debating about a couple other ideas. If you have an idea please let me know.
-tom
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