Are you planning to use your Human Players?

[Swampdude]

Are you planning to use your Human Players?

Now that you've had time to build something and think about how you'll play the game. How do your human players fit in? Do you think you'll use them more than maybe once per match? Considering the risk they pose for penalties. The speed at which they can load compared to the auto loaders. The sitting duck factor compared to the grab and go of the autoloader. The risk of them not putting them on the Bot correctly and causing a penalty. The downtime of your mechanisms not functional while waiting. The list goes on.

The reasons I could see using the HP are:
If you designed to receive them only from the HP.
Or if the Auto loaders are blocked or empty (which will be hard to do in a 2 minute match).

I'd really like to use the HP but 1 tetra + penalty risk + 6min/second downtime + the ensuing block waiting for me. I'm going to reserve that option if really needed. We should be able to get tets into play from the Autoloader at a rate of 1/3sec. I imagine the average will be around 1/4.5sec

I would like to see a rule change to allow 2 tets loadable at a time by the HP. Then you would have a balance of usefulness. Otherwise I'm worried our HP's might get bored and wander off the pad to collect pins.

[Alan Anderson]

The reasons I could see using the HP are:
If you designed to receive them only from the HP.
Or if the Auto loaders are blocked or empty (which will be hard to do in a 2 minute match).
You missed a significant category. Some robots will be designed to pick up tetras from the auto station...but will fail to work as designed. Others will work when built but become damaged during play. That makes the human player a vital Plan B.

[Max Lobovsky]

Additionally, I believe there are several strategies that almost neccesitate using the human player and can still be competitive. Think about what the human loader could do that the auto loader couldnt do.

[Mark Pettit]

We'll be sporting a stack of tetras on our robot. We've determined that it's easier to build a human player that can quickly stack tetras one at a time on the robot than to design/build/program the robot to do the same thing.
Last year, we would have put our human player up against any team and we would have certainly been in the top fraction of a percent. We're counting on that kind of reliability out of our human again this year and have designed our machine to take tetras only from him or from the ground - not from the auto-loader.
-ps political correctness advocates, we are an all boys school so only "hims" are eligible to be our human.

[663.keith]

A human player could be vital to strategy because they can place the tetra on a robot exactly where it needs to be. It may prove to be more difficult to get a tetra from the auto zone, whereas the human player can simply place a tetra on the robot in the precise position on the robot.

[Ali Ahmed]

We don't really plan on using out HP much. But I would love to be an HP, you get the best views of the field. Maybe we have our HP take pictures or video.

[Mark Pettit]

A human player could be vital to strategy because they can place the tetra on a robot exactly where it needs to be.

That's the look we're going for!

[Bcahn836]

Yes we are going to use our human player, sometimes. It all depends on where the robot is and who or what is in our way. We are capable of getting tetras from both the human player and the other loading stations.

[Jeff K.]

We're planning on mostly using the auto loader to get the tetras, but we also want to let other people that can't do much to take part in the event and so that's what we might have them do. So it'll be like, a way to let everyone join. Actually, this year is a lot easier for the human players, they just have to be quick on their feet. They don't have to have much 'ballaness' like last year's human player did when he/she had to shoot the ball into the goal. But ya, like other people said, they are back up.

[Kit Gerhart]

We don't plan to use our human player much, except for the very important job of standing on the pad without jumping up and down due to the excitement of the match. Of course, plans can change, so we will be testing our human player wanabees to have the best person out there in case we end up using the HP to place tetras on the robot.

[Swampdude]

Next question then:

Would you use the HP if they could load 2 tetras at a time to the robot?

I would probably solely use the HP if this were the case.

[dhitchco]

Well,
now that there have been 11 responses to this poll and everybody has stated that they will focus on the auto-loaders instead of the human players, I guess that means that we'll choose a strategy of using the human loader stations 100% of the time since all the other robots will be crowding across the field at the auto-load stations.

oops....I guess I wasn't supposed to share that strategy. Just hope that you won't be using this for scouting purposes.....ha, ha, ha.

I'll bet anyone that the HP loading will come more into play than we all think once we see a full field with six robots! But, as I've stated before, the humans will have to "act" like machines and not get too excited.

Suggested HP training regimen:
1) Lose weight so you can "glide" past the other human players coming and going to the storage stacks and step-on pressure pads
2) Wear sticky gloves so you don't drop a tetra on the way to the manual loading station
3) Wear a teeth guard, so you don't get rattled when the person next to you grabs a tetra off the stack and turns right into your face as he/she runs to the load station
4) Practice all of this at the Saturday night school dance on a crowded floor

5) When you think you've got the "HP ballet" all figured out, do it again and again and again.

Humans are Sooooo unpredictable.

[MasonMM]

the human player is kinda a last ditch effort for our team. The way we deisgned our robot was to quickly grab a tetra off the auto loader. We found this to be much quicker for completeing our strategy than havin a human do the same thing. BUt if the 2 other robots on our allicance are clogging up the loading stations, be definitly wont be opposed to going to the human station in a case like that.

[MasonMM]

Next question then:

Would you use the HP if they could load 2 tetras at a time to the robot?

I would probably solely use the HP if this were the case.

absoluetly, this when completly change the dynamics of the game and our strategy. The Human player would be an even more valuable resource, not that percision placing tetras isn't a valuable resource.

[liladyanime841]

Is the HP allowed to just sit on the pad?

[Eria4044]

Is the HP allowed to just sit on the pad?

I haven't seen anything in the rules to indicate otherwise. I think it's as long as they're on the pressure pad. However, it may not be wise, as they need to quickly be able to load tetras on their robot. It probably isn't allowed, but I think it would be interesting if a team placed a tetra on the pad while they loaded another on the robot, so it could leave the loading station immediately. Or would that not fit under "gracious professionalism?"

[AIBob]

Is the HP allowed to just sit on the pad?I haven't seen anything in the rules to indicate otherwise.I am sorry, try looking at the rules again Eria4044.
In the rules it says that they must stand, at least for their robot to be active:
"Three Pressure Pad Sensors are located along one side of the Playing Field, adjacent to the Team Zone behind the Alliance Station Wall. The Human Players from each team must stand on the Pressure Pad Sensor corresponding to their team to activate the sensor and enable operation of their Robot during the match. If the Human Player moves off the Pressure Pad Sensor at any time during the match, their team’s Robot will be temporarily disabled until they resume their position on the sensor. The match clock does not stop when the Human Players step off the Pressure Pad Sensors and their robot is temporarily disabled." - Pressure Pad Sensors

[Ianworld]

I think the human players will get a lot of use. They are one of the main reasons why just strong robots won't work this year. If a robot gets in the way of another robot going to the autoloading stations all it needs to do is turn and head for the human player station. Only the fastest and maneauverable robots would be able to stop it. For this reason your human player needs to always be ready to load a tetra. It does take a little longer for the human player to grab the tetra but it is a lot faster than having a pushing match.

[Projectchon]

If your Bot/arm is good enought, is faster to load the tartas on the bot loading zone.

>>>>Can one HP stand on two Pads?????

[Iain McLeod]

>>>>Can one HP stand on two Pads?????


Hmmm... I think this is the kind of thing, even if it was legal, would quickly be ruled against by FIRST judges because it would not be in the spirit of FIRST. The point of the pressure-activate pads is safety. One person standing on two pads, allowing both robots linked to those pads to operate, could possibly pose a danger to the HP. I don't even have to look that one up to know the answer.

Sorry projectchon, not picking on you, but there have been a few proposed strategies that seem to be trying to 'bend' the rules.

[Eria4044]

Thanks for clarifying that, AIBob. That answers one question. I had a feeling that there was a strict definition of what humans could and couldn't do, like standing on multiple pads. I guess that rules out using tetras to hold down the pad. I don't see why they would care what position the HP is in, as long as it doesn't interfere (how could it?) and they're on the pad. I said that it wouldn't be wise to sit anyway, but the rules say that robots can interfere with alliance members in the loading zone and state themselves that, while allowed, it isn't wise.

[EricH]

Rule check (flips virtual pages):"<S10> Human players may only occupy the pressure pad sensor assigned to their team. Standing on or activating the pressure pad sensor of another team will result in immediate disabling and disqualification of the offending team." Note that this is in the SAFETY rules. Chances are, this rule will be heavily enforced. (Why do you think there are corner judges?)

As for placing a tetra on the pad to keep the robot enabled, see <G08>:"The HUMAN PLAYER must place their feet on the sensor to activate it. Placing objects on the sensor to activate it is not permitted." Don't try this either; even though consequences are not listed, they will probably be pretty heavy.

Also, I don't find anything about robots being allowed to interface with human players in the loading zone. Humans place the tetra on the robot without touching the robot, then head for their pad. Maybe I missed something, but I don't think so.

[Eria4044]

Don't try this either; even though consequences are not listed, they will probably be pretty heavy.

Well, most penalties this year are steep, so I don't think anyone will be trying it.

[Lil' Lavery]

I imagine the auto loading stations will become a key defensive point, and a mobile robot could be very capable to defending both unless double teamed, so the HP is an almost essential element of the game, at least as a plan B. While we'd prefer to go for the auto loader, the manual may be a necessity at times.