View Full Version : I think we found our limit ..
Brandon Martus
22-02-2005, 22:11
Until I can re-optimize the apache & mysql configurations, or we have the money to get another CPU and/or some more memory, we will have to deny access to the site when we reach 300 simultaneous users.
So, if you come to the site and it says "There are too many users online." or something to that effect, go make some coffee .. have some pizza .. and then come back. Hitting refresh constantly won't do you any good.
Thanks for your patience.
edit: I added some server optimizations, removed the 300 user limit, etc. Detailed responses from earlier are below.
sanddrag
22-02-2005, 22:15
What exactly was the problem? Why would a new CPU or memory fix it? Thanks.
Josh Hambright
22-02-2005, 22:17
would it be a possibility for people to donate a few dollars to a fund? Or have some kind of CD shirts for sale like "CD Web Forums.... <insert catchy phrase>" or seomthing like that, maybe something for sale at the webhug or a webhug t-shirt, to help raise money for server upgrades, it seems right for us all to give back some how since we all gain so much from this site.
That must explain the outage of the server at around 2200 EST...The whole site was down (after I started getting database errors). As previously stated, is there a donation fund?
I would give a few bucks if my parents let me.... I bet I could convince them. But hey! I can wait! I actually have nothing better to do (usually anyway) than browse the forums here, especially now that build season is over.
Stu Bloom
22-02-2005, 22:34
would it be a possibility for people to donate a few dollars to a fund? Or have some kind of CD shirts for sale like "CD Web Forums.... <insert catchy phrase>" or seomthing like that, maybe something for sale at the webhug or a webhug t-shirt, to help raise money for server upgrades, it seems right for us all to give back some how since we all gain so much from this site.
AGREED! This site is an incredible resource for all of us. How much $$ are we talking about? Brandon, I think you should definitely set up a PayPal account to accept donations. You do so much work for us already ... you shouldn't have to also deal with this type of resource limitation. Let us know how we can help!! :)
Why not make people register to view the forums?
If they can't take the 30 seconds to register then they don't need to browse the site.
D.J. Fluck
22-02-2005, 22:41
Why not make people register to view the forums?
If they can't take the 30 seconds to register then they don't need to browse the site.
I agree, by these guests coming in here and just viewing they take away registered users ability to come in and ask a question or provide positive insight to these forums, I think that everyone should have to register to view the site.
tkwetzel
22-02-2005, 22:50
There have been some good suggestions in here about donations and such. I do not agree that everyone should have to register to view the site, unless it is a very simple thing. It would reduce the number of people visiting, but that won't just help us. Would it help if people closed any browsers with Chief Delphi when they left there computers? Because I know I have left my computer MANY times with chief delphi up in one or more browser windows. Also, would it help if I didn't try to open 10 pages at once in tabbed browser windows? Those are some simple things that I do (as well as many others I am sure) for ease of use that I thought of that might help.
They may not help at all, but they are thoughts.
KyleGilbert45
22-02-2005, 22:50
I agree, by these guests coming in here and just viewing they take away registered users ability to come in and ask a question or provide positive insight to these forums, I think that everyone should have to register to view the site.
I totally agree with ya on this one. Registration should be mandatory, at this time in the season, to view most of the forums (maybe except chit-chat and others of the like). Of the times I've looked today there have been more guests logged on then registered members.
Maybe this really won't solve any problem because then those guest might just log in if they have a username or go through and quickly fill out a registration using some "dumb" username and false information.
I'm not sure, it just seems that if you have to be logged in to view the forums then it could alleviate some of the stress on the servers.
Amanda Morrison
22-02-2005, 22:50
Instead of denying guests all together, we just allow registered members to use the forums before guests do? i.e., a guest would get an error message before a registered member.
Josh Hambright
22-02-2005, 22:55
what about some system that based your priority of access to the server off of reputation? Like it would be guests with the lowest priority, and then registered users, and then go up as your rep went up...
Just an idea....
J Flex 188
22-02-2005, 22:59
I agree with Amanda totally on this one. Just because a guest doesnt register doesnt mean they arent part of a FIRST team or another interested party. To deny access to forums denies them a chance to learn about FIRST and the greater community. At the same time, internet privacy is an issue now, and although everyone on CD knows that their information is safe, the average visitor may not be aware of that fact. Many 188 members have no account on these forums but still check them every day and are clued into what is going on. Besides, just how often does CD hit it's limit? I'd venture a guess of no more than 6-8 times per year, usually at this time right after build, in the middle of competition and after nationals. If its a matter of finance, it might be easier to do what Amanda suggested than to organize anything major.
I know this isnt what anyone had in mind, but theres no reason to keep the community of FIRST a gated one the Internet.
Goobergunch
22-02-2005, 23:01
I know that a lot of other people on my team search ChiefDelphi for information (especially the picture galleries), but I'm the only member with an active account. Although I would kind of like them to register, it's nice to be able to just quickly check ChiefDelphi from a school or otherwise shared computer without having to log in.
That being said, I wouldn't object to temporary restrictions on guest browsing, or something similar to Amanda Morrison's idea. I'd rather have the site only available to registered users than to no users at all.
D.J. Fluck
22-02-2005, 23:01
I do not agree that everyone should have to register to view the site, unless it is a very simple thing. It would reduce the number of people visiting, but that won't just help us.
This website was deisgned for the purpose of sharing of knowledge and ideas...i dont see how a guest is possibly benefitting or is fair to the other people who took the time to register.
Instead of denying guests all together, we just allow registered members to use the forums before guests do? i.e., a guest would get an error message before a registered member.
I dont know anything about PHP, but i dont really think you could do this. For people that dont save their login information, they come onto the site as a guest before they'd log in....if the website would block out guests in favor of the registered user, they never would be able to get in until it has cleared out enough for them to get on and log in.
Then again, I could be wrong. Maybe Brandon knows some kind of trick that could make that happen.
roboticsguy1988
22-02-2005, 23:04
what about some system that based your priority of access to the server off of reputation? Like it would be guests with the lowest priority, and then registered users, and then go up as your rep went up...
Just an idea....
That sounds like a good idea.
Man i would sure donate money to keep Chief Delphi running.
CD is addicting, maybe too addicting........ NAAAA never. :D
Instead of denying guests all together, we just allow registered members to use the forums before guests do? i.e., a guest would get an error message before a registered member.
I don't think its as easy as it sounds, it'd be pretty difficult to prioritize access...
roboticsguy1988
22-02-2005, 23:12
I don't think its as easy as it sounds, it'd be pretty difficult to prioritize access...
No one ever said it would be easy.
I dont know anything about PHP, but i dont really think you could do this. For people that dont save their login information, they come onto the site as a guest before they'd log in....if the website would block out guests in favor of the registered user, they never would be able to get in until it has cleared out enough for them to get on and log in.
Yeah, i am not sure how it works at CD, but you might show up as a guess even if you are set to auto login. I mean there could be that split 1/2 of a second before your logged on, lol. If not then all everyone would have to do is have there computer "remember them".
I am definetly opposed to limiting anyones access to the site. What about people who are not members but might become one? Should a person have to register in order to evaluate the site (decide whether they want to register)? Additionally I also disagree with limiting access based on reputation. As most people reading this are members of a robotics team or club most of you probaly know what I mean when I say that I am totally fed up with most "class president" and "prom queen" type popularity contests. I dont want to turn this into a debate over the rep system, but while it is not just a popularity contest, it is based on the same principle, and I dont beleive it should be used to limit access to the site. Also new teams are the ones that need help the most, and they would be low on the priority list.
Personally I like the donations idea. So the number of people is 300. If each of those people donated a dollar that would buy an ok processory (I have no idea what is being used now but I assume an upgrade would cost more than $300). If one hundred of those people though "hey im feeling generous make it ten bucks" another hundred thought "hey what the heck five bucks isnt that much" and the last hundred decided they could afford a dollar easily enough that would come out to 1600 dollars (I think). Suppose another few people are very well off and figured they could chip in a hundred dollars. Pretty soon you are talking about serious money.
Stephen Kowski
22-02-2005, 23:54
paypal donations sound like the way to go for me.....
Ken Leung
22-02-2005, 23:55
It is great that you guys feel so strongly about people's access to this website and ways to make things work, but ultimately this is an issue for team 47's leaders to decide.
There are some pretty serious considerations here. There are many things we have to examine: the goals of this website (who is going to be benefit from this place and how?), the cost of running and maintaining, the cost of upgrading hardwares, the future of this forum (taking a hard look at the growth it is going to face after this season), and how much resource it's going to take to make sure this forum is operating smoothly.
If the growth is going to continue, there are going to be some hard (and easy) choices to make. Fortunately I know we are in the good hands of team 47. Just like FIRST and the rest of the world, change is inevitable. But I know that whatever happens, it will be based on a lot of thoughts and consideration, and that it is necessary.
So, let's be patience, and see what team 47 come up with. If you have good suggestions, keep them coming. But let's not rush the discussion as if we have to decide on the change(s) by tomorrow.
I think blocking guests is a very BAD idea. This forum was made for FIRST teams but is still a resource for people interested in robotics. If they're just looking for a quick answer from a question that's already been asked, why force them to register? People looking for a quick answer aren't probably going to want to register (or even be able to find the answer they're looking for). I personally don't think people should be obligated to give anything back. It's nice if they do, but if they don't want to, they shouldn't be forced into it. Also, last time I checked, Googlebot wasn't a registered ChiefDelphi Forums member, and CD has a pretty high pagerank. Knocking off all unregistered users is going to hurt CD's popularity. They won't be able to find any threads on search engines, and even if they did, they'd have to register to view it.
Also, this was just a big traffic spike, it's not like it's absolutely necessary to upgrade hardware since it seems 300 users aren't usually on this board.
Maybe another alternative, depending on how much bandwidth we use (didn't look for the link, it's here somewhere), another option would be to get a dedicated sDSL line or T1 or simmilar plus a self built and setup server, many of us on here have done this and I'm sure if the money spend on the service as is was transferred to this type of setup it could possibly decrease cost. And maybe run more effiently, and there might not be limits.
-Mike
mike-site (http://mike-site.us)
^I'm pretty sure the limit comes from the processor and RAM, not the link to the internet or bandwidth. Every time a user views a page, the server has to custom generate it for them. Multiply this by 300 or so users, and you start to have a problem.
Jeff Rodriguez
23-02-2005, 00:33
I bet that a good amount of your guests are registered users checking from a public PC, i.e. school, work. I know I have checked CD a few times during class, and I bet many people have.
Blocking guests may aggravate a lot of people.
NoodleKnight
23-02-2005, 00:34
I think blocking guests is a very BAD idea. This forum was made for FIRST teams but is still a resource for people interested in robotics. If they're just looking for a quick answer from a question that's already been asked, why force them to register? People looking for a quick answer aren't probably going to want to register (or even be able to find the answer they're looking for). I personally don't think people should be obligated to give anything back. It's nice if they do, but if they don't want to, they shouldn't be forced into it. Also, last time I checked, Googlebot wasn't a registered ChiefDelphi Forums member, and CD has a pretty high pagerank. Knocking off all unregistered users is going to hurt CD's popularity. They won't be able to find any threads on search engines, and even if they did, they'd have to register to view it.
Also, this was just a big traffic spike, it's not like it's absolutely necessary to upgrade hardware since it seems 300 users aren't usually on this board.
I don't think the notion was to block guests, but rather to create reserved slots for those who took the time to register, giving them priorities over those who don't. They need to register to post anyways (unless they use the search function and find an answer to their question).
Reserved slot's shouldn't be too hard from what I see. I'm not sure about vBulletin, but phpBB grants ever visitor a unique ID number --, make the forums look at the number, if it is a guest/anonymous user, redirect them to a page suggesting them to: login, register, or come back in a minute or so when the traffic dies down.
I also agree with evulish though, in the fact that traffic spikes aren't too common on CD -- a hardware upgrade isn't vital at the moment.
Amanda Morrison
23-02-2005, 00:51
I dont know anything about PHP, but i dont really think you could do this.
Come on... if there is anything I have learned from ChiefDelphi, it's to never underestimate the coding genius that is Brandon Martus.
Brandon Martus
23-02-2005, 00:55
I'll elaborate a little more, I suppose.
Right now we have one Intel(R) Celeron(R) CPU 2.40GHz. In a "perfect world"TM adding one more, along with another 1/2 to 1GB of RAM would make the site load much faster. Unfortunately, as it was mentioned above in a reply, we really only need that about a dozen times spread around a 3 month period. So, it's not really worth the monthly upgrade cost (yeah, we rent the server, so monthly upgrade fees are ridiculous) in the long run.
So. I'm looking at vBulletin code right now, to see if Registered members get priority over guests. All it does is count the sessions in the session table (ones that may be expired too) and if its over 300 (or whatever I set it to) then it denies you. So, right now there are 85 active people on .. but there are 302 rows in the session table, so it (incorrectly) denies people.
You all made some very good assumptions and had good ideas. It is possible to prioritize who it denies, based on registered vs. guests, or reputation, or by who has a longer username, or by whose team has won more matches in 2002. Anything is possible.
.. well, almost anything.
I took off the limitation .. there's probably a better way to handle this. I'll have to think about it tomorrow, when I'm looking over the apache configuration. Hopefully some configuration optimization will help fix this.
If we do go with a limitation, though, it really would only happen about 1/2 dozen times a year. Kickoff. Ship date. First regional weekend. Championship Event. Pre-Kickoff. So, it's not like we'd be constantly blocking guests.
As for donations and ChiefDelphi merchandise to help with the funding .. we know that there are some of you who are willing to help out, and if that time ever comes we know who to turn to. Thank you. :)
Come on... if there is anything I have learned from ChiefDelphi, it's to never underestimate the coding genius that is Brandon Martus.
and those working with him? :cool:
Daniel Brim
23-02-2005, 01:13
what about some system that based your priority of access to the server off of reputation? Like it would be guests with the lowest priority, and then registered users, and then go up as your rep went up...
Just an idea....
I highly disagree. Most members of this forum have one or no dots, and if you think about it, most questions (at least during the season) come from new members asking questions for their team. I think that blocking members with little/no rep would be counterproductive to the purpose of the forums
My $0.02
-Daniel
Brandon Martus
23-02-2005, 01:29
I took off the limitation .. there's probably a better way to handle this. I'll have to think about it tomorrow, when I'm looking over the apache configuration. Hopefully some configuration optimization will help fix this. I just installed the Zend Optimizer/Encoder which should increase php/apache performance by 40%. Maybe that'll speed things up a bit. ;)
Woah, 1:28am. Work @ 8. Whoops.
This website was deisgned for the purpose of sharing of knowledge and ideas...i dont see how a guest is possibly benefitting or is fair to the other people who took the time to register.
Okay, I'll bite. When I'm at school, it's nice to have access to Chief Delphi for any number of reasons. However, the computers are public terminals, and are so loaded with adware/spyware/malware that I try to avoid transmitting confidential information on them unless I'm certain that the machine is reliable. Outright denying my access to this site because I don't want to risk compromising my password wouldn't make any sense, so I think I can see how a guest could indeed benefit from this site. It's not an issue of time, but rather of security.
That being said, giving registered users priority over guests in high-load situations is not a bad idea, so long as there's a way on the denial page to log in.
JohnBoucher
23-02-2005, 06:58
A few thoughts....
Would tightening up the rules for signatures make a difference? Sig's are nice but unnecessary.
Would banning SE spiders help. Your robots.txt already disallows quite a bit. How about banning by them by IP?
Is there a way to detect user inactivity? I try not to, but I know I have left CD up and unattended. Is it possible to warn then sign-off inactive users?
Brandon Martus
23-02-2005, 07:27
A few thoughts....
Would tightening up the rules for signatures make a difference? Sig's are nice but unnecessary. Most signature content is stored on a different server, so removing signtaure content wouldn't put a dent in the problem.
Would banning SE spiders help. Your robots.txt already disallows quite a bit. How about banning by them by IP?I have to see if theres a way to disallow them during certain times. Having the site spidered between 6pm->1am eastern (being our peak time) is a bad thing. I'll have to investigate.
Is there a way to detect user inactivity? I try not to, but I know I have left CD up and unattended. Is it possible to warn then sign-off inactive users?If you aren't clicking things, the server isn't affected by you. The forums automatically forget about your presence after 15 minutes of inactivity, too (well, kind of).
Josh Hambright
23-02-2005, 08:01
I still want to buy a CD web forums T-shirt!
Merchandise on this Brandon! License it! Take a page outa the New Kids on the Block and Star Wars Handbook and make everything from action figures to lunch boxes! I know i'd buy them!
--EDIT---
In response to Kyles post below...
"I WANT MINE WITH THE NEW B Money D-TOWN ACTION NINJA ACCESORIES!!!"
"No I WANT MINE WITH OPTIONAL SLASH WIG AND HAT!!!"
I can see it now,
Kids going to see Santa and asking for the new Brandon Martus action figures.
You could get even more money by adding on extras like a computer station for the action figure to monitor CD from, and maybe a guitar for after work fun..
I know I would want a cool CD lunch box. :)
what about some system that based your priority of access to the server off of reputation? Like it would be guests with the lowest priority, and then registered users, and then go up as your rep went up...
Just an idea....Main problem with that would be that the people who gain (possibly), the most use out of CD will find it harder because they don't have rep...
Katie Reynolds
23-02-2005, 10:16
Main problem with that would be that the people who gain (possibly), the most use out of CD will find it harder because they don't have rep... I agree.
I know I would want a cool CD lunch box. Haha, you'd definitely be the coolest kid in school with one of those!! :D
tkwetzel
23-02-2005, 11:07
I think the CD crew is doing a great job with the service they already provide. I would like to thank Brandon for his tremendous amount of time that he dedicates to these forums and his quick notice of and reaction to this problem. I agree with the many people that have said that this occurance does not warrant an upgrade (although it would be nice) because we have hit that limit once (probably coming close a couple of other times) and it will only occur a few times a year. Merchandise would be cool, but I don't think that the number of consumers would warrant it. A lot of the people on this site would buy it when it first came out but then the sales would drop and probably be very low for a long time to come.
Thanks again Brandon!
$.02
I totally agree with ya on this one. Registration should be mandatory, at this time in the season, to view most of the forums (maybe except chit-chat and others of the like). Of the times I've looked today there have been more guests logged on then registered members.
Maybe this really won't solve any problem because then those guest might just log in if they have a username or go through and quickly fill out a registration using some "dumb" username and false information.
I'm not sure, it just seems that if you have to be logged in to view the forums then it could alleviate some of the stress on the servers.
Bad idea--
Remember, there are still quite a few teams who don't use ChiefDelphi, or who don't know about it. I don't want to sign up for a forum until I know it is worth it. Who knows--you could be getting spam!
It is imperative that guests be able to view, so that they may judge for themselves the quality of the site and whether or not they wish to register.
I instead go with the person who suggested CD shirts and/or donations: I'd definitely chip in money, especially if there were some CD shirts with great quotes.
--Petey
what about some system that based your priority of access to the server off of reputation? Like it would be guests with the lowest priority, and then registered users, and then go up as your rep went up...
Just an idea....
But then you are basing access to the site off of what is essentially an arbitrary qualitative measurement.
I don't think so--
I think we really just need to all pitch in some cash and buy Brandon a new server. FIRST is growing--it is logical that it's de facto online community would need to as well.
--Petey
Joe Matt
23-02-2005, 11:19
Start a buffer system. At 275 people start turning away guests saying we are reaching capacity, so log in. That allows for more users to log in if needed. Also, an automatic log-off system, where if you are viewing a page for a certain time, you'll be logged off (10 minutes), so someone else can get on.
Start a buffer system. At 275 people start turning away guests saying we are reaching capacity, so log in. That allows for more users to log in if needed. Also, an automatic log-off system, where if you are viewing a page for a certain time, you'll be logged off (10 minutes), so someone else can get on.
I like your first idea--although it wouldn't be my preference.
Log off system could be bad. 10 min isn't long, and what if you are researching material to post? That would kind of suck.
I trust in Martus.
--Petey
Ryan Albright
23-02-2005, 11:49
I WANT A CD SHIRT! I WOULD BY 7 OF THEM, ONE FOR EACH DAY OF THE WEEK
I've always wondered what kind of performance increase the Zend Optimizer would have on a big system like vB3. Should be pretty impressive.
Mike Schroeder
23-02-2005, 14:17
Maybe JVN can loan you The Answer (http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/showthread.php?t=33825&highlight=Sledge) to solve you problem
Venkatesh
23-02-2005, 19:40
I just installed [size=-1]the Zend Optimizer/Encoder which should increase php/apache performance by 40%. Maybe that'll speed things up a bit. ;)
Just a quick thought,
The Zend Optimizer is very good at increasing the load that PHP can handle. It is one of those rare products which performs nearly as well as advertized.
That said, Eaccelerator is even faster. It is a fork of the Turck mmcache project, which is used by Wikipedia. I have a large amount of data here from some comparisons of Zend Optimizer and Eaccelerator 0.9.2, if you are interested in looking at it. A quick summary of the data - Eaccelerator is statistically significantly faster than the Zend Optimizer 2.5.7 in database operations with MySQL under PHP 4 and 5, "improved" MySQL operations in PHP5, and file I/O under PHP4. The differences between the two are statistically insignificant when the php scripts are forking processes, text processing, and php control statements (eg phpinfo). You might want to look into it.
There is something else you might want to try. If you are using Apache 2, try mod_cache and mod_mem_cache together. You can set up Apache to cache all content coming from Chiefdelphi. This is not difficult to set up at all and can help quite a bit.
If you are still running Apache 1.3.x, you would have to use mod_mmap_static. You can convert all archived/closed threads to static pages (just run the php CLI executable on those threads and save the output) and then use mmap_static to cache it. That would increase the speed of access to closed/old threads tremendously, while taking load off php.
Whatever you plan on using to increase capacity, good luck. Chiefdelphi.com is a tremendous resource to the FIRST community and we thank you for you great work.
And I would buy a CD t-shirt too. =)
Brandon Martus
23-02-2005, 23:43
Whatever you plan on using to increase capacity, good luck. Chiefdelphi.com is a tremendous resource to the FIRST community and we thank you for you great work.Yeah, I had read about everything you mentioned above, but it was 1:30am, had to work at 8am, and the Zend Optimizer was a 1-click install via WHM/Cpanel, so I went with it. If I get time in the next few days I'll look at the stuff above, and if not .. maybe next year.
Thanks! :)
This website was deisgned for the purpose of sharing of knowledge and ideas...i dont see how a guest is possibly benefitting or is fair to the other people who took the time to register..
A guest could be a team looking at the site to see what it is all about before they register, or it could be someone looking at CD from a public place and not wanting to login and risk there info from being stored there.
It could also be a team or student just getting on line to check something real quick then get off. Guests are not something to not have they are a nice way for people our side the CD and FIRST community to look and see what we are doing and what we are all about.
mtaman02
25-02-2005, 01:21
Start a buffer system. At 275 people start turning away guests saying we are reaching capacity, so log in. That allows for more users to log in if needed. Also, an automatic log-off system, where if you are viewing a page for a certain time, you'll be logged off (10 minutes), so someone else can get on.
I like the auto log off feature b/c I for one can honestly say that I stayed logged in 24h 7d a week, when i turn my pc on im already logged into cd. By having a timeout / auto log off feature it will give many a chance to get on. If you don't do anything within 10 minutes you get put on a innactive list, If you don't do anything say 5 - 10 minutes after that you get logged off. That way you still have a chance to stay logged in, but will be logged off if inactive for 20 minutes.
As said b4 in previous posts, going by rep points wouldn't be fair only b/c alot of people don't have much or any for that matter.
greencactus3
25-02-2005, 16:05
im sorry i dont have time to read every post in this thread right now but does having many tabs of cd open count as one user or more? i use firefox btw. is thatbad? its just it takes a while toload so i make use of time by keeping the portal open in one tab and then opening new tabs each time instead of replying, then waiting for the portals to load again. should i stop this?
Brandon Martus
25-02-2005, 19:33
Nope. I use FireFox and often have many tabs open. I have two open right now, actually. You only count as one, no matter how many tabs you have open w/chiefdelphi.com in them.
I was thinking about the Tshirt idea, and I though it would be cool to make thee Tshirts with some of the choiciest Spotlight posts. For example:
This looks like a job for duct tape!
In Martus we trust.
Programmers fuel: pure, unadulterated caffeinated beverages.
Blame it on the programmer.
...etc....
I think that would be cool. Then you could do promos like "Collect all 30" or whatever :D
Yeah, tell me where to Paypal money. :cool:
Dave
UlTiMaTeP
27-02-2005, 22:42
I have almost the exact problem with my server and around 600 users it craps out. (mysql just dies) www.planetquake3.net if anyone can help me
DarkJedi613
28-02-2005, 08:57
I didn't see this anywhere, but instead of donations why not google ads? There is definitly enough hits to generate a good amount of money that'd probably cover the costs of an upgrade.
And if not, use the money to make CD merchandise ;)
Brandon, and other 47 team members. Have you discussed any ideas about the website this year in regards to being overloaded or upgraded? Were the paypal payments/advertising (http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/advertisers.php?) a success in helping with the cost of the website? (http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/showthread.php?t=40488&page=1&pp=15)
I was just curious as it is getting near the time where CD gets busy... (http://stats.chiefdelphi.com/)
Will we reach our limit again this year? how many times?
-Mike
P.S. I had an idea, I would possibly be willing to setup a dedicated server for CD with FULL control as it is now, but with little/no cost to team 47, and bigger, faster specs than the server(s) have now. Only possibly slower aspect would be little slower/lower bandwidth.
Brandon Martus
03-01-2006, 13:59
One of the main problems this year is that I'm really busy (life, new house, side-projects, bands, work, etc.) compared to previous years, and being the only one working on keeping the site online, it's hard to get moved to a new server if I can't devote enough time to get it moved, online, working, tested and in better shape than it already is.
The individual donations and advertising are helping (and will continue to help) keep the site online with more possibility of upgrades than we have had in the past. Thanks to those who have donated and continue to donate.
We are talking now with our host about a quick upgrade before this weekend. I'm guessing it probably won't happen in time, and we will run into similar problems to what we had last year. It may be rough during kickoff, but hopefully they can give us some additional hardware to handle some of the heavy load we usually run into during the first few weeks of the season.
If they can do the upgrade, we'll work with them to make sure it is quick, painless .. and doesn't interfere with kickoff, post-kickoff, evenings, ship date, etc., etc. An announcement will be made on the portal if there will be any scheduled downtime.
As far as a dedicated server, Mike, you'll have to run all that through Mike Martus, Mike Aubry, etc. Making a move like that is not really my decision, in the end.
I'll work on a dynamic robots.txt to deny spiders during peak hours, so Google and Yahoo aren't spidering the site and taking up valuable resources. We may also have to deny guests and only allow logged in users, limited to 300 or so. All of this will have to be played by ear and will probably change as we go.
So, stay tuned. Suggestions, comments, and the like are welcomed.
Jay H 237
03-01-2006, 17:49
Suggestions, comments, and the like are welcomed.
You could always turn off some of the extra features of this site for a few weeks like you did last year to lighten the load. While I can't speak for everyone, I'd rather live without some of the bonuses for awhile than not be able to log on at all.
Congratulations on your new house. :)
Conor Ryan
03-01-2006, 18:16
I'm not sure if this has happened yet, but maybe if your idea works out with denying guests access and allowing logged in users to view the site, maybe you could allow users that have donated to have first preference on the space (hey they donated, why not do them a favor).
This maybe a stretch but maybe only allow certain features of the site to be used after 20 posts or something else, like a time limit saying that you have to registered for X amount of days to use this feature.
Rickertsen2
03-01-2006, 18:30
I totally agree with ya on this one. Registration should be mandatory, at this time in the season, to view most of the forums (maybe except chit-chat and others of the like). Of the times I've looked today there have been more guests logged on then registered members.
Maybe this really won't solve any problem because then those guest might just log in if they have a username or go through and quickly fill out a registration using some "dumb" username and false information.
I'm not sure, it just seems that if you have to be logged in to view the forums then it could alleviate some of the stress on the servers.
Part of the reason for the number of logged in users vs guests, is that regular members don't log in until they actually post something. I usually view the forums without being logged in.
RIgnazio
03-01-2006, 18:42
even though ChiefDelphi is a good community, I would like to invite others to join It's Technical!, found at http://technical.aceshigh176.com
It's Technical! is a support site for the FIRST robotics community that covers everything including pneumatics, electrical, programming, etc.. It also includes information for vEx, FLL, EDU/Robovation, etc..
It's Technical! is a subsidary of Aces High 176 (http://www.aceshigh176.com).
Stop by and open an account today!
Mike Martus
03-01-2006, 19:48
As Brandon has said we are taking steps to handle the extra load for now and the near future. The timing is not great but we have been working on the upgrade for awhile and are solving several roadblocks along the way.
As Brandon has said, he is the MAIN man I am only an ad visor or sorts not the expert by any means. I have diverted his energy as of late by making the site self sufficient in terms of funding. This energy could have been spent making improvements. I am looking toward the future and it was a MUST make it now activity.
We (Brandon) will work his usual magic in the coming rush of traffic and if all plans fall into place we will be faster and stronger to carry the load the Community of FIRST is in need of.
Thank you for your continued support. We will do our best!
As far as offers to have free or reduced rates on another systems..... there is much more to the site than just moving. Much of the site is custom written and changing locations is not a easy or speedy task. It is also very risky this close to the FIRST crunch.
Again, a special thank you to the Community of FIRST.
As Brandon has said we are taking steps to handle the extra load for now and the near future. The timing is not great but we have been working on the upgrade for awhile and are solving several roadblocks along the way.
As Brandon has said, he is the MAIN man I am only an ad visor or sorts not the expert by any means. I have diverted his energy as of late by making the site self sufficient in terms of funding. This energy could have been spent making improvements. I am looking toward the future and it was a MUST make it now activity.
We (Brandon) will work his usual magic in the coming rush of traffic and if all plans fall into place we will be faster and stronger to carry the load the Community of FIRST is in need of.
Thank you for your continued support. We will do our best!
As far as offers to have free or reduced rates on another systems..... there is much more to the site than just moving. Much of the site is custom written and changing locations is not a easy or speedy task. It is also very risky this close to the FIRST crunch.
Again, a special thank you to the Community of FIRST.
Mike,
Seeing that it is the time of the year where CD gets the most hits wouldn't be the best time to do a move, I know that the whole moving isn't as easy as transferring files, its also about reconfiguring and all that great stuff. That is where/why I just crawled CD to see how much it really needs and what my servers need to run the site. Could be why my ip is listed as #2...
MY offer was a little late in the year ( early in the season). But it was just an idea which I thought of that would help with the costs to your team and hardware issues. Each year FIRST grows and being that Chiefdelphi is one of the most used websites it will need to grow to allow for all the new users to get their fix of FIRST.
-Mike
Venkatesh
03-01-2006, 22:54
How about using the Squid cache in http-accelerator mode on Mike's server? That way, you can leave the current configuration in place and take advantage of both extra bandwidth and reduce processing when people are dealing with both static elements and threads which haven't been touched in a while. And the configuration of that is a lot simpler than moving servers.
To balance load between any number of volunteer caches and the primary server, you could us one of many load balancers (pen, plb, etc.) or round-robin DNS. Then each cache server would run squid and set itself to be caching chiefdelphi.com. When the squids can't serve requests, they will pass them back the the current server.
That might help some with performance.
Brandon Martus
04-01-2006, 17:23
I've done some tweaking in robots.txt to disallow the spiders from indexing the site (at least until the Summer). It's a tradeoff that I normally wouldn't like to make, but I'd rather save resources for you guys than for Google, Yahoo, Alexa, etc.
The site is still 100% searchable via the site's search (up top) and will remain in Google/Yahoo/etc for a while before it falls out. Hopefully by then we will have our server upgrade and/or it will be May and I'll put the old robots.txt back up.
I'll also be toning down some of the 'perks' like I did last year. There are a few settings and features that are better left disabled during high traffic. The boards will still be useable, but may be missing some of the nice little extras. (You won't be able to see who is viewing the thread, etc.)
-Brandon
(you will probably still see 1-2 'Spiders' listed on the 'Whos Online', because some are recognized, but may not adhere to the robots.txt standard. 1 or 2 is better than 50-60.)
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