View Full Version : A Water Competition Next Year?!?!?!
NeO_Weapon
10-04-2002, 00:24
Was there ever a FIRST Competition where the playing field was filled with water like a pool? Wouldn't it be cool if this would happen next year? Imagine all the different kinds of robot designs from using motors and using simple paddles. Tell me some of you ideas.
Stephanie
10-04-2002, 01:20
i can't even begin to imagine the shorts and potential electrocutions... :P
A lot of dead robots with no fixen um.........
I have already thought of building a "boat robot".
But I just thought, didn't do anything else...
You want to see some water robots? Check out this site for the "Water Spiders" project :
http://www.remo.net/spiders/
also :
http://remo.net/spiders/proposals/caparts_proposal.htm
http://www.remo.net/rac/
Now, is this great stuff or what?????
Here's a photo of one performance of the Water Spiders. (If I do this correctly, that is - about a 50-50 chance)
David Kelly
10-04-2002, 07:29
how come this topic comes up EVERY year?
D.J. Fluck
10-04-2002, 10:30
:rolleyes: Water Competition is something we hear every year....
Ive been in FIRST for 3 years and my team has been involved since 92'. Every year this topic comes up and there are huge debates over it...it has never happened and i am sure that it wont for many years to come.
Joe Matt
10-04-2002, 11:18
It'll never happen.
Electricity and Water don't mix. Found that out the hard way.:D
i joined first last year. the closet thing to a hazard ive seen is a bridge. I think that ramps, bridges etc would make the game alot better. personally i think water is just a bad idea. Batteries and water dont mix. I think maybe a rock pit or a sand trap would be fine. Teams would have to make durable robots. i DONT want anything extreme such as fire water big spikes or hammers attacking you. just a change of the playing surface. a 2 level playing field would also work. biggest rule change should be weight. change from 130 to 150 i know you have to bring it out every round so thats why we cant have 200 pound bots. the game this year was alot better than last. lets just hope dean stays on this path.
In the summer of 1999 we were working very hard to introduce the idea of the (then) new Southern California Regional Competition. A scrimmage match was held at the NASA Jet Propulsion Lab in Pasadena, and lots of local potential sponsors and prospective teams were invited. The scrimmage was staged on the central mall at JPL, in front of the main headquarters building.
We figured, southern California in the early summer, holding it outside would be perfect, right? Wrong! Fourteen teams (I don't remember all the teams that were there, but the BeachBots and the Archer School for Girls stick out in my memory) arrived early that morning, just to be greeted by a day of rain and drizzle cascading on to the uncovered play field. We thought we would have to call off the event, but someone suggested we give it a shot and see what happens.
All fourteen robots worked successfully all day. Throughout the matches, robots ran across the field in up to two inches of standing water. After matches the teams took robots back to the pits (the only dry areas under small tents) to wipe them down and sop up the excess water. But they were all constructed well enough that I don't think we had one short all day, and every machine was still running by the end of the scrimmage. All the teams had paid attention to the rules (yes, everyone actually read all the rules back then! ;) ) and all electical connections were thoroughly taped and/or insulated, and withstood the moisture for the duration of their exposure to the rain. We were all pretty impressed by how well the robots (and team members) were able to withstand the extra "environmental constraint" and continue on. Somewhere in my files I have some great photos of rooster tails of water shedding off the wheels of some of the robots as they raced around the field.
Just one more point in the empirical data set of FIRST robot performances...
- dave
------------------------------
"People demand freedom of speech to make up for the freedom of thought which they avoid."
-- Soren Aabye Kierkegaard
Neato Dave, can you find the picture?
That's fun and all, but i think that it would be a challenge if a 3 foot tall robot were sitting in 5 feet of water....I can see it already! *Blub blub blub*
Ricksta121, I agree with your thoughts on the ramps and/or bridges. I think the problem came when FIRST tried to make them MORE then just obsticles giving them point values, etc...
I'll just say I'm glad I'm not the one who has to come up with the game every year!
Matt Attallah
13-04-2002, 10:44
Originally posted by AdamT
I'll just say I'm glad I'm not the one who has to come up with the game every year!
I think for all our sake, we all are glad you are not the one that hast to come up with the game every year :p!!!
DaBruteForceGuy
13-04-2002, 19:44
FINALLY, a competition where duct tape would be used for it's original purpose!
Anarkissed
14-04-2002, 04:03
imagine the possibilities of a water competition... like 4 to 6 inches of water on the field... you could have boat bots or driving bots... or combinations, the possibilities are just cool :)
me and my friend stephen actually had a big conversation about this the other day :)
Joe Ross
14-04-2002, 10:43
Dave, your story doesn't match with the story that I was told. First of all, the scrimmage was in the summer of 2000 ;-) I know that much for sure, especially since Archer didn't have a robot in the summer of 1999, as their team started for the 2000 season.
Unfortunately, I was not there, so my story is only second hand from my team mates. Beach Bot was the #1 seed, but I was told that the only reason for that was that they didn't have any electrical problems during the course of the matches. Every other team had at least one match where they had some type of problem. My team mates were suprised at how few electrical problems there were, considering the circumstances, but apparently they were present.
On another note, if the guys on junkyard wars can build a submarine in 13 hours, think of what a FIRST team could do in 6 weeks!
Melissa Nute
14-04-2002, 10:56
Originally posted by NeO_Weapon
Was there ever a FIRST Competition where the playing field was filled with water like a pool? Wouldn't it be cool if this would happen next year? Imagine all the different kinds of robot designs from using motors and using simple paddles. Tell me some of you ideas.
All I can see from that is almost every robot being dead on the field.
DaBruteForceGuy
14-04-2002, 11:34
All I can see from that is almost every robot being dead on the field.
not if they use enough duct tape:D
Well, enjineering is based on problem solving so i think that whatever they through at us, we could come up with something...right? I mean, they would have to give us a little more than 6 weeks to build something that complicated.
And, well then calculations would be a pain in the butt because everything is lighter in water, and for calculating resistance we would have to somehow factor in the the mass of the water displaced and... Ok maybe we do have our limitations:rolleyes:
Harrison
14-04-2002, 11:38
I think a water match could be done, although it would be hard to set up.
The robot inspection would had to include throwing it in a pool to make sure nothing gets fryed...and I bet many things would fry...lol. Then what happens if your bot dies during a match? Who's the poor person who gets to go for a swim to get it?
But besides the robots part of it, think about how they would set-up the playing fields. Some how I think setting up 40-foot long pools in a bunch of hockey arena's wouldn't be the easiest thing (or cheapest) to do.
Not that I wouldn't mind seeing this happen - I doubt it will.
But, I think a water obsicacle could be done.
A couple years ago where there was the bridge in the middle of the field, why not change the bride to a moat (say 5" deep).
Something like a moat would certainly make people think about more design possibilites...Would be interesting...
But hey, could always put SOME water everywhere on the field...Enough so you could build a 'boat' or something with wheels...Be interesting to see that.
Originally posted by Joe Ross
Dave, your story doesn't match with the story that I was told. First of all, the scrimmage was in the summer of 2000 ;-) I know that much for sure, especially since Archer didn't have a robot in the summer of 1999, as their team started for the 2000 season.
You are correct - I was off by one summer (I was converting between English and Metric calendars, and got confused! :D ). There was a small scrimmage at JPL in the summer of 1999, but it was not the one that made everyone damp. As for problems at the 2000 scrimmage, there were some throughout the day but every one that we saw, and every one reported to us, was mechanical in nature or a control system problem caused by something other than the rain (i.e. software problems, disconnected PWM cables, etc.). Frankly, all of us were amazed that there were not massive electrical problems, given that the robots were put in an envionrmental condition for which they were never designed.
I remember standing under an umbrella with Dave Brown at the competition (it's ironic that the robots ran fine in the rain, but WE needed an umbrella...) and prognosticating about Dean and Woodie adding water hazards to future competitions after they saw how well the robots performed. There are lots of good reasons why this may end up to be a bad idea (DUH!) but it is still fun to think about. And who knows, maybe one of us will come up with a really creative, innovative way to add water hazards to the game that is also practical and easily implemented.
Maybe a kiddie pool in the middle of the play field as an obstacle? In the game, you can choose to ignore it and go around it. But if you make your robot water-tolerable and go through the pool, you get some major point advantage in the game.
All the Navy-sponsored teams would have a real advantage!
-dave
--------------------------
"I love Mickey Mouse more than any woman I have ever known."
- Walt Disney
All the Navy-sponsored teams would have a real advantage!
yeah go navy (we are in cahoots with the navy (they help us out))
Gui Cavalcanti
14-04-2002, 19:50
FIRST is shying away from stationary playing fields now that it has 17 regionals. If every field costs $3,000 to build, and you have to build it 17 different places... yeah, you can see where that's going. That's why they were with the "mobile" goals... which, if you ask my team (who had to lug them routinely up and down 2 flights of stairs for storage and practice), aren't very mobile.
I'd personally like to see a shifting playing field like the original game, Maize Craze. Playing a game in corn would just be so cool. Then you have playing fields being more equal - tried and true teams that know how to get the most traction possible would be on a somewhat equal level with the rookies who have to think up designs on how to handle a shifting field.
The water could work... just 1 or 2 inches though. Enough to slow 'bots down and make drivers think about racing through. I think if there were some rules applied to inspection, more of a pool game could work, but once again we come to the problem that radio waves don't like going through water.
I think FIRST should make a game that has so many obstacles one team can't possibly do all of them (leading many teams to try). You know, sort of like Lego League - every field has tons of objectives, and robot's don't have to do all of them.
At least, however, I think we need to change what the playing field is made of. Carpet's getting kind of old, and everybody knows how to do well on it now. Maybe linoleum, or tile?
While I'm dreaming, I also want the game to get more electronic and programming focused, so some automation should be a requirement :)
Jeff Waegelin
14-04-2002, 21:18
My first thought when I saw this thread was "ARGHHHHH NOT ANOTHER WATER THREAD!" I recalled a rather extensive discussion of this over the summer, but this one seems to be a little better than the last. The story of the rather wet scrimmage in California was definitely interesting.
Anyways, I don't really think FIRST will ever make a field entirely out of water. It's just too impractical to set up, a lot of the facilities where competitions are held wouldn't appreciate water everywhere, and not being able to access a water "field" could be a great hindrance to some teams. While I could see a small water obstacle, an all-water field is just too hard to deal with.
I would have to agree with DaBruteForceGuy's comment about the duct tape!;)
I think a submarine mission would be awsome. Our team has been talking about it for as long as I can remember. My older brother, who got me involved in the program, is convinced that it is going to happen in time. I am kind of dissapointed that with this being my last year, I will miss the opportunity of a water mission. Oh well, I guess I'll just have to start my own team so I can take part in what I think would be the greatest task ever asked of our teams to accomplish.
Harrison
23-04-2002, 09:25
Here's something no one has thought about w/ a water playing field...
At the end of the matches you know how they call teams down to get awards and stuff...How would you do that in a pool? It would mean having to make a seperate awards area... more $$$...and if you ask me FIRST is already costing enough $$$ lol.
Also, what happenes if the pool springs a leak? That'll mean a lot of duct tape...lol
Scorpion515
23-04-2002, 10:24
Hmm...Good Point.
PsychoPhil
23-04-2002, 11:19
It would be interesting and I would like it, but as many others said before, there would be MANY dead robots!
A lot of precision work would be necessary that I don't think EVERY single team can do. the robot would have to go completely into a shell where no water could come in. And if you get any other electrical problems you have to open your wet bot in between matches, very complicated. I think it would be possible and maybe it will happen some time. I'd like to see it happen, ten we would see the true engineers...
Conclusion: Would be awesome but won't happen
so long, Philip
PsychoPhil
23-04-2002, 11:20
Originally posted by Harrison
At the end of the matches you know how they call teams down to get awards and stuff...How would you do that in a pool? It would mean having to make a seperate awards area... more $$$...and if you ask me FIRST is already costing enough $$$ lol.
Also, what happenes if the pool springs a leak? That'll mean a lot of duct tape...lol
lol, good points...
But FIRST is rich enough to afford the water stuff and organize it...
Hailfire
08-11-2002, 20:14
If it does happen, build a hover capable robot. That is... if it is possible.
If it does happen, build a hover capable robot. That is... if it is possible.
When it you can't go through the obstacle go over it. A hovercraft would work and wouldn't be that hard to build considering people can build one in 10 hours on junkyard wars.
DaBruteForceGuy
08-11-2002, 21:37
I think that it all comes don to the incredable impracticality of the whole water ordeal. It is so immensly impractical for both the teams and FIRST that it will not be done (in the present day and age). Just by looking at all the problems brought up thorough-out this thread i think that we pretty much explained why FIRST doesn't consider such an obstical (or whole feild) being of H2O. So i think that the water would just mess us up more. If FIRST is going to alter something i think it should be the carpet:rolleyes: ;)
Originally posted by dlavery
Maybe a kiddie pool in the middle of the play field as an obstacle? In the game, you can choose to ignore it and go around it. But if you make your robot water-tolerable and go through the pool, you get some major point advantage in the game.
All the Navy-sponsored teams would have a real advantage!
-dave
--------------------------
"I love Mickey Mouse more than any woman I have ever known."
- Walt Disney
That idea brings new meaning to the phrase "taking a dive".
I too was at that legendary scrimmage, playing hookie from work, er developing contacts for possible future business. It was interesting that tracked robots seemed to have the most trouble. They had too much "float". Though the TechnoKats treads wouldn't have had any difficulty.
As I recall there were one or two instances of magic smoke escaping towards the end of the day. That wasn't necessarily due to the water though. I know we all used "illegal material" (cut up plastic bags and duck tape) to provide protection for the electronics. I was surprised it worked as well as it did.
My old BeachBot hat made a pretty good umbrella too!
FernandoG
08-11-2002, 22:52
A water competition has been a big rummor even on our team since I was a freshman. It would totaly be an awesome idea, but it will probably have to evolve...
the very first competition would be just manuvering over the water.
later, having arms or tethers that dove underwater to grab objects
and finally, a competition of submarines,
BTW... I think that since FIRST is making their bottled water, the water competitions will be appropriate.
maybe this could be the explination for the venue change
Originally posted by Hailfire
If it does happen, build a hover capable robot. That is... if it is possible.
It has been done before.
Also, don't revive dead threads.
Wetzel
~~~~~~~~~~~~
Deadthreads best remain dead.
OneAngryDaisy
09-11-2002, 18:46
I surely hope they don't do this anytime soon- just imagine trying to set up a field at your school... the only time we'd be able to test our robot would be when it rained...
I want to build something that doesn't involve moving goals!!!!:)
chellyzee93
20-11-2002, 17:17
Boat bots! that would be so cool. I've been waiting for a good challenge.
This is only my second year, but from what I saw at regionals and nationals, I think that many of the robots would just have a water-tight (as close as possible) seal around all the electric things and just have their wheels extend far below the rest of the robot keeping it high and dry. It'd be faster and more maneuverable than a boat or hovercraft and requires less work or paradigm shift. I just get the feeling that most teams latch onto their greatest possibility of success and wheels do that for you.
What is this all about water not being able to be mixed with elecricity? or that the robots would short or any of the negatives? I for one would LOVE:D to have this happen. What a Challenge it would be!!! And not only that, the playing field would be awsome and every team would be equally matched seeing as FIRST has never had a water compition!
Well I hope this Idea happens and I can take a crack at it.
"Life is what happens when your making other plans."
-John Lennon
SteveM38
22-12-2002, 14:51
Why do you think they made Duct tape, its a cure all for everything
We'll never see H2O bots in the near future.
Its too complex with our current resources, etc.
-Chris
utishpenguin
11-01-2003, 21:07
I think there is anotehr robotics league called "naval robotics".
Teams build submarines or stuff like that.. im nto very clear
it woudl be interestign to see a "naval" FIRST :D
mistresshawk
14-01-2003, 16:28
Well, it could be fun.... but what about teams up north? Putting a water practise course inside doesn't seem practical, but if you put it outside it might freeze! As well as it possibly freezing during the actual competition! It's still March for regionals, and though I'm stuck here in Florida I vaguely remember it still being nippy during March.
utishpenguin
14-01-2003, 19:21
that would be very amusing to see..... very hard to take-care thoough... more complicated than carpets...
Ironhead
16-01-2003, 12:53
there is no way any one would use a water field the building of the field would have to be perfect if not we would have a real big problem not to mention the damage water can cause i made a sub with a friend the motor got wet and rusted up to a solid peice of junk oh and what happens when the bot is hit and the circut board takes a bath ?
Mr. Ivey
16-01-2003, 14:03
It would be cool, but highly improbable. You need to remember that if a playing field of water was implemented that the rules and limits would probably be changed as well. My guess is if it was a water game is that the 130 pound weight limit would be lifted to something higher for those teams who had the ability to make a submersable, and the cost limit would be higher so that blastic parts could be fabricated so that a mulit directional prop could be produced. Just some ideas of mine. I was told about this the year before last, and did some prelimenary designing and found out how much work it would take just by the designs.
Mr. Ivey
DanLevin247
17-01-2003, 12:59
Another note, I don't know if this has already been addressed in this thread...
Playing fields are already expensive, some teams have a hard time coming up with the money to buy the parts for the field as is...now imagine them having to buy a pool. Also, what if a bot takes on water and sinks. How are you going to get it from the bottom of the pool.
sorry folks...water WILL NOT happen....
:) simple as that
unless first makes a reeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeaaaallllyyy big effort, which they will not do....they have contracts and connections with companies which are basic component companies....if boats and water came into the picture......a whole new kind of kit would haveto be designed, and thats not somethig first would do.....they just rpefer dumping all the old stuff (with some things newer and some taken away) into a box and handing it out......and water when it comes to the construction of the feild would be hard....and expensive......
and there would be too many complications with electronics.....AND.............how do yoy test your bot on a teather ? swim behind it ?
personally i think this topic is getting really old...iv'e seen it around more than once.......................
what it would come down to is the amount of effort and money FIRST would be willing to put into a water competition..........and i dont think they wanto do ither.
:]
In theory you could submerge a motor into water and have it still work. Abeit this is in freshwater. Also they make special waterproof motors designed to be waterproof. In theory you could separate the robot and the control/esc's so that they are right next to the controls. Btw there is all ready a competition for water robotics.
Hailfire
23-01-2003, 13:26
Will you guys stop talking about a water competition, you know that there probably won't be one anyway. Besides, water and robots don't mix well.
Brandon Martus
23-01-2003, 13:44
Originally posted by Hailfire
Besides, water and robots don't mix well.
Sure they do :)
http://www.edie.net/gf.cfm?L=left_frame.html&R=http://www.edie.net/news/Archive/6148.cfm
http://www.google.com/search?q=underwater+robots&btnG=Google+Search&hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8
Besides, water and robots don't mix well.
Can we all say thether???
ejthe4th
26-01-2003, 00:51
you guys think too hard...water and electronics mix fine...it's the impurities in water that conduct electricity...if FIRST uses pure water it's non-conductive so it shouldn't't have any effects on electrical components. the big question then would be where would they get "pure" water and how would they keep it "pure" through out the competition? I think that water matches, although very cool, may not be in the next year or two.
mgreenley
26-01-2003, 19:16
For the winter Olympics they used "pure" water in the skating rink. If you had a glass of that and tried to drink it, the need for water to bond would rip your teeth out of your head. Anyways, when it would come in contact with the side of the field it would pick up imputities.
Two, it would be way to expensive for lower income teams
Three, as noted-what happens when it sinks?
Four, where could you test it beforehand?
Just stop posting and let this waste of e-space die.
Dream on. Sink like a brick.
BBFIRSTCHICK
26-01-2003, 19:42
Well,.....FIRST most likely already has the game for next year done. If you look at THIS years field drawings, look at the date they were drawn. It was last year or the year before If I am right! But it would be sweet if we did have a water competition. Robots in giant zip lock bags!!
HolyMasamune
27-01-2003, 02:05
Originally posted by ejthe4th
you guys think too hard...water and electronics mix fine...it's the impurities in water that conduct electricity...if FIRST uses pure water it's non-conductive so it shouldn't't have any effects on electrical components. the big question then would be where would they get "pure" water and how would they keep it "pure" through out the competition? I think that water matches, although very cool, may not be in the next year or two.
What if someone was eating lunch and the wind blew the salt on his lunch into the pool :) big disaster
a really cool thing to have is floating robots or robots that don't break the surface of the water...weird
yangotang
27-01-2003, 23:00
If you guys ever get this off, you'd better let me know.
If you guys get shocked, i'll laff !
--yang
SaxMan701
16-11-2003, 12:37
This is a pretty cool idea. I don't think shorts would be a problem; it's pretty easy to protect your bot against that.
One problem, though, is this: Many teams would want to use their school's pool to practice and test their robot, but the build season is during sim season, so they wouldn't be able to use it during that time of day...
And, of course, the venue problem. I doubt ALL of the Regional venues have pools usable for this. And does the Atlanta venue have 5 pools?
Oh, I really hope you people are joking in considering this...
Its always amusing to see dead threads come back, and the people that joined in the time that it was dead not read all the posts and post the same thing that had been similarely previously posted prior to the joining of the new users, particularly new to the dead thread.
Wetzel
~~~~~~~~~
Dave teaches
pauluffel
16-11-2003, 17:06
Actually, there is talk of an aquarium being built in Atlanta. I'm not sure this is still discussion of building it, or working on how and where to build it.
Possibly this is why Atlanta is to be the home of Championships for the next three years? They have three water games planned out where they want to use the new aquarium for competition?
Alot of robotics research has been done for underwater situations for robots that explore shipwrecks and other parts of the ocean too deep for humans to explore. This might be another way to tie FIRST in with real-world stuff.
This is going to be great!
First I get to call physical plant at my school:
Me: "Hi, Jay, its Gabriel, you know how you offered to let us use that big room on the second floor of the brand new athletic center?"
Jay: Yeah
Me: ...yeah, well is it alright if we flood the place?
Jay: WHAT????
Me: How 'bout if we just take over the pool for six weeks, remove all the lane-lines and crap and drain it to the appropriate level?
*CLICK*
(Actually, I think they might actually go for the idea, when we were getting tours of campus on orientation the Aquatics Director said: "we don't like to think of it as a pool, we like to think of it as an aquatics experience center" - they've had such silliness as a performance of The Tempest and a "multimedia rave" in the pool)
But imagine how much fun retrieving robots after competition is over will be. We'll all get to dress up like fishermen!
And then there are the regionals, where they'll have to turn theatre stages and parts of colliseum floors into giant bathtubs. Maybe it would work at Reliant Park (IIRC they had big drains on the field) but I don't think it would go over too well at the Meadows theatre.
And how are you going to keep the water on the field? If its a few inches deep I'd imagine that robots would spray water everywhere, if its a few feet deep how is the audience going to see the competition? Are you going to build giant plexiglass walls around each field?
Then at the end of each day we could have a big Mopping party where everyone mops up the pits.
You might also run into problems changing the battery or doing any other sort of electrical work on a sopping wet robot. Most people in the pits are careful, but I've run into more than a few morons (including myself) who might create some serious litigatable issues.
On the plus side however we'd all get to say "Arrr" and "To the starboard Captain!" and "Captain! Hull Integrity Failing - we have to engage the emergency tertiary phase-matrix-reduction unit" -- not that some of us don't say those things anyway...
I think its a great idea and I'd do it in a heartbeat, I just don't think any sane person would.
Actually, why bother with robots at all? It would be a hell of a lot more fun to just build real ships with cannon and everything and compete in the local harbor. There could be some serious broadside action! And think of the plank-walking opportunities! And I heard there was a decommissioned WWII Aircraft Carrier on sale a little while ago and I might know of a few places to get some 19th century cannon, I mean, they're just sitting there, nobody's using them, I'm sure they won't mind if we take a couple off their hands.
This is going to be great!
First I get to call physical plant at my school:
Me: "Hi, Jay, its Gabriel, you know how you offered to let us use that big room on the second floor of the brand new athletic center?"
Jay: Yeah
Me: ...yeah, well is it alright if we flood the place?
Jay: WHAT????
Me: How 'bout if we just take over the pool for six weeks, remove all the lane-lines and crap and drain it to the appropriate level?
*CLICK*
(Actually, I think they might actually go for the idea, when we were getting tours of campus on orientation the Aquatics Director said: "we don't like to think of it as a pool, we like to think of it as an aquatics experience center" - they've had such silliness as a performance of The Tempest and a "multimedia rave" in the pool)
But imagine how much fun retrieving robots after competition is over will be. We'll all get to dress up like fishermen!
And then there are the regionals, where they'll have to turn theatre stages and parts of colliseum floors into giant bathtubs. Maybe it would work at Reliant Park (IIRC they had big drains on the field) but I don't think it would go over too well at the Meadows theatre.
And how are you going to keep the water on the field? If its a few inches deep I'd imagine that robots would spray water everywhere, if its a few feet deep how is the audience going to see the competition? Are you going to build giant plexiglass walls around each field?
Then at the end of each day we could have a big Mopping party where everyone mops up the pits.
You might also run into problems changing the battery or doing any other sort of electrical work on a sopping wet robot. Most people in the pits are careful, but I've run into more than a few morons (including myself) who might create some serious litigatable issues.
On the plus side however we'd all get to say "Arrr" and "To the starboard Captain!" and "Captain! Hull Integrity Failing - we have to engage the emergency tertiary phase-matrix-reduction unit" -- not that some of us don't say those things anyway...
I think its a great idea and I'd do it in a heartbeat, I just don't think any sane person would.
Actually, why bother with robots at all? It would be a hell of a lot more fun to just build real ships with cannon and everything and compete in the local harbor. There could be some serious broadside action! And think of the plank-walking opportunities! And I heard there was a decommissioned WWII Aircraft Carrier on sale a little while ago and I might know of a few places to get some 19th century cannon, I mean, they're just sitting there, nobody's using them, I'm sure they won't mind if we take a couple off their hands.
Balbinot
17-11-2003, 07:06
I think that a water competition would be great!
We have to build our robot in the summer!
So we could test it on us! To freshen up! Maybe put some ice inside it to cool the water!
Jeff Waegelin
17-11-2003, 10:12
Ahhh.... I love to see this come back... every year. It's like clockwork.
Joe Matt
17-11-2003, 10:16
Originally posted by Jeff Waegelin
Ahhh.... I love to see this come back... every year. It's like clockwork.
Just like the changing of seasons, it comes, the rookies like, the vets cringe in pain.
Andy Baker
17-11-2003, 10:50
Hmmm... speaking of pools and water competitions...
In October of 2004, the World Swimming Championships will be held in downtown Indianapolis. The main pool will be in Conseco Fieldhouse, where the Indiana Pacers play.
From what I heard, there is only a week and a half available for the Fieldhouse to be converted over to a world-class natitorium (fancy word for swimming pool).
It will be a 25 meter pool.
Andy B.
Matt Attallah
17-11-2003, 11:01
Originally posted by JosephM
Just like the changing of seasons, it comes, the rookies like, the vets cringe in pain.
:p
Comon - we all went throught this stage - let the rookies have their fun! :)
Joe Matt
17-11-2003, 11:11
Originally posted by Matt Attallah
:p
Comon - we all went throught this stage - let the rookies have their fun! :)
I know, but I'm still in pain.
Its awasome to think about but it would be even more awasome to see it happen.:]
Awesome to see happen...maybe but seriously...no sane person would ever want to put anything eletrical built by highschool students into water! I would be the person 7000 ft away from the arena....just in case! I mean...comon....we had enough robots set themselves on fire on the fields last year as it was. *shake her head* You're all nuts. However....if you want to play a FIRST game in a pool I recommend you play Marco-Polo in the hotel's pool at First and thus....problem solves. Heck...invite all the teams to play if you like but just make sure no one gets squashed. Never the less.....the idea is...amusing.
Students+Robots+Water...
Enough said.....................................
oreocookeee
20-11-2003, 20:18
has anyone considered their might be a reason why the new breakers are waterproof? just a though...
Not likely,
The chances of there being a competition are slim and none.
Think of the possible damages to robots, and the trouble teams would have to go through to seal the components and make them watertight.
Then in the middle of a round BOOM
You blow a breaker
now you have to open your watertight casing and change the breaker and reseal it.
Nope, No water playing fields.:ahh:
Duke 13370
24-11-2003, 05:41
*sigh* it's a nice thought, but i don't think it'll be a serious consideration for FIRST anytime in the next 10 years. There's just too many technical problems that come with water, namely the part with water turning the robot into a large paperweight, and the part with trying to have an arena to hold the competitions in.
I think we can all agree it would be cool, but even if only one team's robot dies to the water, that's one robot too many.
How long has this thread been around?
Joe Matt
24-11-2003, 08:48
Welcome everyone to the Forum Tour with your gide JosephM!
'This type of topic is called the 'never ending story' topic, named after the movie. THIS THREAD WILL NEVER END. No matter how many reasons why it will/will not happen, newbies will always voice their opinions!'
Michael R. Lee
24-11-2003, 22:29
I design underwater robots for a living - how cool is that?
That's from Gary Dillard, a mentor, from S.P.A.M.....so looks like they'll have an ace up their sleeve... that an Eric Schreffler works at Perry Technologies too. They build underwater robots..... <shudders> Great ROvs powered by a Jones' gearbox.... <flees ot other ahead of the arena> :D
But anyway.... water + electricity = bad. And i think for one, we'd need either cables or a better controller. On top of that the weight limit either must go up or the game must be much similiar.
And ther is a underwater robotics competion called DEPTHCHARGE, saw it once on the Discovery channel. Not as big as FIRST but it looked cool. Don't know what happened to it though....
Actually, contrary to popular belief, 12V systems love the water. In fact, the proper way to break in a brushed motor is to immerse it in water, and run it for 10 minutes. (BTW I'm talking about low voltage DC systems) Some electric trolling motors for fishing boats are designed to fill with water because it dissapates heat better than air. The big problem though is when you get into sensitive electronics where you're working with minute currents, they are easily affected by the small amount of electricity that does get lost/shorted through the water. Solution: dip all the circuit boards in wax! The other downside is corrosion and rust. Solution: spray the connections and motors with silicone spray/grease/WD-40! Water by itself is unconductive- it's the ions and particles in the water that conduct electricity. Has anyone ever seen the Junkyard Wars episode where they built the electric submarines- (the first show they did with subs)? The one team's sub was completely filled with water, and it was running fine- if I remember correctly, they actually planned it that way, because of the above^^. Try it for yourself- take a fisherprice motor, and wire it up to a robot battery, then chuck it in a bathtub- even chuck the battery in! It's a sealed battery it'll survive.
Mark Hamilton
25-11-2003, 23:21
I've said this before, but I don't think water would be as large a technical hurdle as many people think. It would require a ruggedized controller, preferably with relays and speed controllers integrated, which was sealed water tight. Every wire coming in and out would then have it's own fuse to prevent a short taking out the controller. For safety reasons this would have to be FIRST provided. It's worth pointing out that water actually has fairly high resistance, and electricty always follows the path of least resistance ( should be the wires. The competition would definitly be a challenge, but if we were given a kit geared towards an aquatic game, it would be possible. I'm sure the logistical problems of actually running the competition, not to mention aquatic bots would cost a lot more money to build would make it an impossibility in the near future. There already are aquatic robot competitions, especially at the college level, and many are built with fewer resources then many teams have, but they are executed at a much smaller scale.
Josh Siegel
04-12-2003, 17:24
Now, I know this thread is a little old and I'm not bringing a whole lot new into it, but, the recent letter (I'll look for a copy to post) mentions waves in water and drums... A lot. So I'm thinking, oil comes in drums, oil and water don't mix, but oil floats on water. Bots might not mix with water, but maybe they could float? Could it have something do with a pseudyo-oil-spill? Just reading a little too deep, but thats where the imagination kicks in :D
edit: in the exitement ;) I forgot to mention the new controller - does anyone else find it a little curious that the new controller for the edubot is highly sealed/tightly built? It seems to me that more support for pneumatic/hydraulic components and other water-resistant electronic-supplements is a little fishy (bad pun, I know..) It makes sense to my conspiracy oriented mind, anyway.
Elgin Clock
04-12-2003, 18:06
Now, I know this thread is a little old and I'm not bringing a whole lot new into it, but, the recent letter (I'll look for a copy to post) mentions waves in water and drums... A lot. So I'm thinking, oil comes in drums, oil and water don't mix, but oil floats on water. Bots might not mix with water, but maybe they could float? Could it have something do with a pseudyo-oil-spill? Just reading a little too deep, but thats where the imagination kicks in :D
edit: in the exitement ;) I forgot to mention the new controller - does anyone else find it a little curious that the new controller for the edubot is highly sealed/tightly built? It seems to me that more support for pneumatic/hydraulic components and other water-resistant electronic-supplements is a little fishy (bad pun, I know..) It makes sense to my conspiracy oriented mind, anyway.
DRUMS YOU SAY?? hehehehe! (http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/showthread.php?t=22406&page=1&pp=15)
The actual prediction I made.. (http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/showpost.php?p=193068&postcount=49)
What about a competition on ice? it could be held at skating rinks. that would be straight g-code.
Gadget470
19-01-2004, 02:10
What about a competition on ice? it could be held at skating rinks. that would be straight g-code.
Since "straight g-code" is not a real word, or phrase, I will assume that to be some kind of slang for "super neat".
Ice competitions probably won't happen either. Most ice rinks are either not large enough or willing to give up the space for a whole weekend. Also, where do you expect teams to practice?
disturbedislife
19-01-2004, 09:37
yes, youve said it before.... ok, we get all of the positive, and negative points to this discussion.... but there is only one way to find out what FIRST has planned for future competitions. ya wanna know the inside secret on how to find out? (go ahead, laugh at me....) IT'S TO JUST SHUT UP AND WAIT! WOO HOO!
ranma_saotome20
21-01-2004, 09:41
Well, I don't know if it's with First, but I know someone hold a submersible contest. I don't know a lot of the details, but I do know that our school is currently building a submersible this year. Maybe that's what you guys have been hearing about. Maybe... :confused:
David Kelly
21-01-2004, 14:28
How long does a 2 year old water competition rumor thread need to go on?? I think this one has run its course.
vBulletin® v3.6.4, Copyright ©2000-2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.