View Full Version : Anyone else want a change?
Heres my rant of the day:
After making an animation for 3 years in a row on essentially the same topic, frankly I found it to be a little dry.
I think the animation topic should change every year, just like the game. This helps take some of the advantage away from veterans, because they wont know whats coming next. (just like the FIRST game!) Furthermore, New and fresh topics could inspire 'vet' and 'newb' animators alike to be more creative, and produce more amazing, and entertaining animations. Lastly, having a pile of entertaining short films can be very handy, in say... the massive down time between matches! Its just like commercials on TV
~Amazing!
(That way every animator gets the recognition he/she deserves at the competitions, most people have no idea what any of the animations look like, they never see them. Thats just depressing.)
Justin Montois
09-03-2005, 22:24
Well Roush I dont think I've ever diagreed with you and i dont think im going to start now. Ive heard some things on this fourm about future years games and stuff like that. I think this idea makes the most sense. I'd love to see commercial type animations between matches, play all the teams saftey animations you could have a whole plethora of animation awards and options that could go along with it. Because as evryone says FIRST isnt just about building robots.. So even the freshman on team XXXX and the 'vet' on team 340 :cool: get there animations viewed. I think that would be a great idea that should really be considered.
Pi Is Exactly 3
09-03-2005, 22:42
I couldn't agree with you more. As it is, a team can begin an animation now and pass it in before the competition, giving them just less than a year to make an entire animation that's supposed to take them only 6 weeks to make. Because the topic is always the same, teams can expect it to be the same and work now on next years animation. I think your solution would be a perfectly good idea.
Hear Hear. I love the idea of playing the animations so every one can see them. Send them out on the web casts too. Not just send one team member to go and "view" the animations. I have been involved with friends that have done clay animating and it can be as time consuming as building a robot. Just because now it's done on computers doesn't lesson the fact to do it right still takes skill and time. We have a saying at work, "watching (and criticizing) TV is easy, MAKING TV is hard." Good story telling is both Art and Science. Changing the themes as the game changes just makes sense.
Li Jianliang
10-03-2005, 01:43
*Agrees*
The only looping animation reel that I saw last year was at the Atlanta Championship.
There is somewhat of an unfair advantage to the veterns, who already know what appeals to the judges (strong concept in leadership/cooperation/fun in FIRST/change/future). I watched a good chunk of animations from 2004, and while there are some great eye candies, most were less-than-remarkable- they lacked in something or the another or all three areas.
I think some sort of a demo animation (step-by-step, maybe?) AND an overall guide to good concept-making should be provided with the 3ds max CD; that'd help out a lot of the newcomers (including 3ds max crashers, like me!).
The theme should be different every year... OMG, I just can't count how many Mars or "future" animations I've seen! Sure, Mars is very cool, and so's the concept of getting to it, but most animations just jumps from one event on Earth straight to Mars- a bit too far for me. One of these years, Autodesk should declare a "Mars-less Year", or something like that for other overused settings (Matrix, perhaps?).
EDIT: Eeeee! Roushey-sama! *Glomps*
Hey all you great animators out there. Do FIRST a favor and put your thoughts into a one page, bullet format memo and I will help make sure that your voices are heard. Comments can also be made by mentors at the team forums in the spring.
and aren't you all the judges?
Well as far as the tutorial video thing~
Me and some of my bud's had that plan in the works. If I can get this project in full swing, it should be very helpful for new animators. I plan on using the same process I refined this year by mentoring 340's new animation team. Granted the video is still in the planning phase, but it should cover the basics of: Planning, Storyboarding, Mesh Modeling, Texturing, Animation, Character Studio animation, and my own personal technique that is a combination of "Poly by Poly"& mesh modeling.
As far as that memo goes, let’s generate a list of everything we need changed/ added, cram it all into a professional letter, and slap it down on FIRST's desk. Maybe we'll jump start some changes.
(Roushey-sama? Sheesh im not a king here, just a vet)
[QUOTE=Roushey]
As far as that memo goes, let’s generate a list of everything we need changed/ added, cram it all into a professional letter, and slap it down on FIRST's desk. Maybe we'll jump start some changes.
(QUOTE]
You don't need to slap it down. You just need to put your ideas down in a reasonable list. It's not that FIRST doesn't care. It's that there are so few people (less than 50) dealing with so many students (50,000+) and volunteers (15,000+), and things often get overlooked. Sometimes it's hard, with all the complaints and feedback to figure out what is really important. I think your ideas are all great. You write them and I'll make sure they are delivered.
Unfortunately this is my last year, but I would have loved to see a new prompt this year and would be more that willing to help change this in the future.
You don't need to slap it down. You just need to put your ideas down in a reasonable list. It's not that FIRST doesn't care. It's that there are so few people (less than 50) dealing with so many students (50,000+) and volunteers (15,000+), and things often get overlooked. Sometimes it's hard, with all the complaints and feedback to figure out what is really important. I think your ideas are all great. You write them and I'll make sure they are delivered.
Thanks for your Promise to deliver. I look forward to the follow through.
BTW: The Term SLAP IT DOWN I'm sure was just a descriptive story telling visual writing technique and not a reference to a violent rush on the FIRST headquarters.
As far as past experiences: I've personally talked to Dean Kamen during a Chairman's Award Reception at his house and he told me that the reason they don't give us more of a presence at the events is because he doesn't want the appearance of a "Science Fair" when I brought out several points as to why that didn't have to be the case he agreed and pointed me to the person in charge of Corporate relationships (with people like Autodesk) i spoke to her and she happen to be talking to two Autodesk Reps at that moment and we all sat down and talked for 45min-1hr and threw some Ideas around on how to improve the situation- (this was 2-summers ago after the First regional award started) They seemed agreeable and many times I offered my services to at least bounce ideas off of. When the season approached I emailed them and again offered my services and I heard nothing. When the season came- almost nothing changed-except they didn't send runner ups to the Nationals and they got rid of the Regionalization thing.
At the regionals- I still had to contact the regional coordinator and suggest that they play the animations at the breaks and play the Winner when the award was presented. Both of which they hadn't planned on. This year I asked them to play the Animation on Sat (because they didn't on Fri) and I assumed they'd play the winner (my what short memories they have) They Didn't. As well as the fact that they played Autodesk's Compilation of Select Animations form several years and not this years entries.
In addition to that they labeled our animation as TEAM 270 and Not 230. Which is slightly better than the mistake they did at the nationals a couple years ago when they listed out animation in the menu but linked to team 231 (or who ever was after us) and theirs was played twice and ours not at all.
All I want is some recognition from FIRST that Science and Technology is actually involved in what we do. It pretty hard to do an animation with out Computers (at least for this competition) Last I checked that involved Technology and Science (Physics, Biology, Computer Science, Programming, etc.)
So I'd love to see someone follow through on geetign our Ideas Implemented.
Part of the problem is that FIRST considers this an AUTODESK Competition and not truely part of FIRST. And that is stated by FIRST and AUTODESK.
Lots of luck- I'm trying to do the same on my end. You all have great Ideas just keep pushing.
FIRST has been making some improvements to the animation competition (remember a couple years ago it was only rewarded on the national level) but it is getting somewhat stale (i think more for the 30 second time limit than the subject matter. There are some clever concepts out there even if FIRST only rewards straight and narrow presentations on the national level (just like the Grammys).
Personally I'd like to see the Autodesk Visualization competition scrapped for the opportunity for teams to create a five to 10 minute video that tells each teams story that could be shown during downtime (like in the morning, during lunchtime, between the award pesentation, ect.) and part o fthe presentation is using both Inventor and 3D Studio Max instead of some 30 second format that hardly does the effort justice.
Bill Moore
13-03-2005, 13:23
I stopped directing our students to follow the "Award Criteria" when Discreet stopped following them.
The first year I worked as a mentor to the animation sub-team, we turned in an animation that was not highly Technical, but satisfied the Creativity and Content components highly. Discreet judged our effort to be worth 6 points out of 100 total. Devastating for the amount of work and focus we placed on achieving what the criteria were. That year at Orlando, we went to hear Ted Boardman speak, and he said "We look at dozens and dozens of these animations all at once, and often they are the same story. For goodness, sake, put some humor in it."
The next year, I told the students, do anything you want, just make it funny. And they did. We had GeroniMOE breaking out of its' build area and running around the world like a stacking fool (cows, pyramids, Great Wall of China). Last year, the student animation followed the electrical spark from the robot controller through the electrical wiring to the point where GizMOE hung on the bar.
The students pick the topic they want to animate. We might not be following the details of the Award Criteria, but the students learn and have fun, and whether Discreet agrees or not, they are putting out some nice animations.
I stopped directing our students to follow the "Award Criteria" when Discreet stopped following them.
The first year I worked as a mentor to the animation sub-team, we turned in an animation that was not highly Technical, but satisfied the Creativity and Content components highly. Discreet judged our effort to be worth 6 points out of 100 total. Devastating for the amount of work and focus we placed on achieving what the criteria were. That year at Orlando, we went to hear Ted Boardman speak, and he said "We look at dozens and dozens of these animations all at once, and often they are the same story. For goodness, sake, put some humor in it."
The next year, I told the students, do anything you want, just make it funny. And they did. We had GeroniMOE breaking out of its' build area and running around the world like a stacking fool (cows, pyramids, Great Wall of China). Last year, the student animation followed the electrical spark from the robot controller through the electrical wiring to the point where GizMOE hung on the bar.
The students pick the topic they want to animate. We might not be following the details of the Award Criteria, but the students learn and have fun, and whether Discreet agrees or not, they are putting out some nice animations.
I remember that animation. Weirdest thing I ever saw in my life. More teams should do animations like that.
I agree there should be changes- but untill they make changes you can either try to follow the guidelines or just do one for your website. My feeling is Be creative, make it funny if you want- I usually like that too, but if its not about WHAT FIRST MEANS TO YOU AND YOUR TEAM- just don't enter it. Then you wont dilute/confuse the Judging process. Not if you try to do that and its unsuccessful then fine, but if you dont care about it- then take all the time you want, make it nice and post a link- well all look at it I'm sure.
It annoyed me a couple years ago when the winning animation was half Full Screen Video. That doesn't follow the "Create 30 Sec Student Animation" Directive. Perhaps there were bunches of animations that Diluted the process- maybe not I don't know- but it didn't fit the criteria thats for sure.
takieddine
14-03-2005, 08:56
One way of bringing vareity to the animation field, is to implement uses of this year's game in the real world, as my Partner Owen Carson and I have been doing for our last 2 animations. heres the example of implementing the vision capabilities of the robots in the real world, and future.
www.steeldragonrobots.com/animation.html
Thanks for your Promise to deliver. I look forward to the follow through.
BTW: The Term SLAP IT DOWN I'm sure was just a descriptive story telling visual writing technique and not a reference to a violent rush on the FIRST headquarters.
All I want is some recognition from FIRST that Science and Technology is actually involved in what we do. It pretty hard to do an animation with out Computers (at least for this competition) Last I checked that involved Technology and Science (Physics, Biology, Computer Science, Programming, etc.)
So I'd love to see someone follow through on geetign our Ideas Implemented.
Part of the problem is that FIRST considers this an AUTODESK Competition and not truely part of FIRST. And that is stated by FIRST and AUTODESK.
Lots of luck- I'm trying to do the same on my end. You all have great Ideas just keep pushing.
I hear you. And I promise to pass on your comments. You have some solid examples of ways how this should not be done. Do me a favor, and take your post, edit it a bit, SLAP IT DOWN, and email it to me. jbeatty@usfirst.org
I will make sure that your experiences (and even better would be to also include a list of ways to make this better for all) and I will make sure that the right person at FIRST and at autodesk gets it. This will not happen until after the Championship, because everyone is up to their eyeballs right now. But during the team forum period, probably in May-June, it will get passed on. I promise.
Jenny
"We need to show kids it's more fun to design and create a video game than it is to play one." Dean Kamen, Inventor, Founder, FIRST
on the trifold brochure used to promote FIRST
Well, getting back on topic,
Let's all try and put together a compilation of what everyone wants before we e-mail it out. Here’s a basic list of what should be changed /added:
- Different Animation Topic each year.
Reduces veteran advantage, inspires creativity.
- Winning displayed in the awards ceremony.
Give the team its credit.
- Animations played in downtime. (Between Matches, at lunch, etc...)
Let everyone see ALL the animations, not just a select rep from each
team in some small back room.
- Extended time limit. (1-2 minutes?)
The teams have already made a lot of content, let them show it off.
If anyone has something to add/remove to/from the list, don’t hesitate to post it up.
(…and yes, "slap it down" was just a figure of speech.)
Li Jianliang
14-03-2005, 13:15
More related to the competition days, but...
- Nice and loud announcements in the Pit & Stands about when the animation judging is. Include the judging times in the Regional booklet, at least!
- Perhaps an animators social? Nice, long lunch discussion various aspects of each other's animation.
takieddine
15-03-2005, 09:04
At the pittsburgh regional, my friend and I set up out laptop right by the autodesk stand, where everyone checks out the animation dvd's, and we held discussions and tips/lessons, for those interested. we asked the announcer to make the announcment, i think that could work for you as well.
Mark Pettit
16-03-2005, 00:27
I think it would be cool to make a contest where everyone designs a piece that contributes to a continuous animation. An animated Rube Goldberg machine comes to mind, or maybe Autodesk could provide a robot model that has to enter your animation at a point and leave at another (where it goes on to the next animation). That way, they could play a continuous loop of them whenever there is a lull at the comps (like there is between matches this year).
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