Boilermaker Regional Webcast Online! [Archive]

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Dr.Bot

16-03-2005, 18:09

Check late Thursday on the robotics.nasa.gov site for details.

(Fingers-Crossed)

This is the result of a lot of effort on the Part of WildStang.
A lot depends on the network connectivity from the venue.

GO Teams!

AmyPrib

17-03-2005, 08:23

Please visit this site. This may not be up and working until Thursday evening.

rtsp://explorer.arc.nasa.gov/encoder/FIRST.rm

Thanks,

Dave Flowerday

17-03-2005, 08:57

The webcast is up and running. You can use the URL that Amy gave above and open it directly in RealPlayer or you can use this link (http://live.wildstang.org/ramgen.php) which should open from a web browser.

Please note that it could take up to 10 seconds for the video to appear after you connect, so please be patient!

Stephen Kowski

17-03-2005, 10:10

This is the result of a lot of effort on the Part of WildStang.

Thx a lot 111....i was beginning to have withdrawls from not witnessing a regional this week....

Josh Hambright

17-03-2005, 10:36

Thats right folks, as promised the Boilermaker regional is being webcast live on to the internet.

Thanks to team 111 Wildstang for providing the webcast!

The address is:
http://live.wildstang.org

Dave Flowerday

17-03-2005, 10:45

Thanks to team 111 Wildstang for providing the webcast!
We are doing the encoding on-site, however NASA is providing the servers that you all are connecting to, so thanks to the NASA guys as well!

How's the feed look?

Karthik

17-03-2005, 10:49

We are doing the encoding on-site, however NASA is providing the servers that you all are connecting to, so thanks to the NASA guys as well!

How's the feed look?I'm watching the feed right now, it looks amazing. Great work!!

Does anyone have a practice match schedule that they'd be able to post?

Stephen Kowski

17-03-2005, 10:53

anyway they can call out the team numbers? or like karthik said post a match list....

Kit Gerhart

17-03-2005, 11:02

Thx a lot 111....i was beginning to have withdrawls from not witnessing a regional this week....
It's up, and the picture quality is fantastic compared to the VCU webcast.

RBrandy

17-03-2005, 11:13

Awesome feed... Props to everyone who made this possible.

Josh Hambright

17-03-2005, 11:24

we were watching ourselves at the scoring table (John V Neun, David Kelly and myself) earlier, so if you see those little white dots by the little black dots on that table, thats us. Slight delay but other then that it looks great, again, awesome job wildstang.

And i will try and get the practice schedule posted soon and the match schedule posted tonight, no guarantees.

Joe Matt

17-03-2005, 11:24

Besides the crappy camera angle, great quality! Thanks 111! :cool:

Crebb

17-03-2005, 12:29

Thank You Wildstang!

Josh Hambright

17-03-2005, 12:48

Okay in addition to the webcast,
We are also proud to announce a first for FIRST, the SCORING TABLE CAM!
Thats right, see what faces pop up at the scoring table, some people to look out for JVN, David Kelly, Chris Noble, Amanda Morrison, Ricky Q, Molly Menges, Josh Hambright, Andy Baker, Dan Green, and many many more! Good times for all,

you can find the webcam at:
http://indianafirst.org/webcam

We will try to show the field and the crowd as well as our pretty faces so that the action stays hot:) Enjoy.

Elgin Clock

17-03-2005, 12:52

Okay in addition to the webcast,
We are also proud to announce a first for FIRST, the SCORING TABLE CAM!
Thats right, see what faces pop up at the scoring table, some people to look out for JVN, David Kelly, Chris Noble, Amanda Morrison, Ricky Q, Molly Menges, Josh Hambright, Andy Baker, Dan Green, and many many more! Good times for all,

you can find the webcam at:
http://indianafirst.org/webcam
w00t.. SOmething I can actually watch on the network here at work.. lol

Rich Kressly

17-03-2005, 13:04

Thanks 111!!
This scoring table camera thing ...
I feel compelled to look although it's potentially scary with that list of names. Someone go tell Baker and JVN to put the sandwiches down and come say hi.
And the big question of the day ....
Is the scoring software functioning properly or are bugs still being worked out?

Edit ... What the :eek: :yikes: ??? Even though you expect it from 111 ... watching them run is always an eye opener. /Edit

Josh Hambright

17-03-2005, 13:16

John V is around helping out with making sure everything on the field is running properly, i'll try to get him on cam, Andy is around kissing babies and shaking hands, i mean working on something.
The scoring softwar is running, knock on wood KNOCK ON WOOD! we've only broke it a few times today, realtime apears to be working, the software is just sort of confusing, but its running. Its quiet pretty looking:)

Randy

17-03-2005, 13:16

When I first started the stream (over the lunch break) there was sound, but now there isn't. Can anyone confirm that?

Rich Kressly

17-03-2005, 13:26

same here Randy .... sound earlier, not now

Josh Hambright

17-03-2005, 13:42

just talked to them, they are working on the audio issues.

Alex Cormier

17-03-2005, 13:43

i hear nothing also, looks great though

Dave Flowerday

17-03-2005, 13:58

Sound should be back now.

Alex Cormier

17-03-2005, 14:01

it tis, thanks.

activemx

17-03-2005, 14:09

Wowo what here happened in the first practice match. .

Q1 3/17/2005 9:00:00 AM

1501 307
1555
461

135 24
868
234

:ahh:
is that even possible

Josh Hambright

17-03-2005, 14:31

Wowo what here happened in the first practice match. .

Q1 3/17/2005 9:00:00 AM

1501 307
1555
461

135 24
868
234

:ahh:
is that even possible
hahaha no its not, i think 2 of the goals had like 55 tetras on them in that match, that was from last night when we were testing stuff out and we have no way to get it back off of the FIRST website yet, that we know of, but yeah thats not accurate.
Ohh and the real time scoring works,
Also on the scoring table webcam, look at the celebrity section, including a picture of a pretty cool robot:)

activemx

17-03-2005, 14:47

Thanks man.
Now they are showing the match score with team number and right after the matches.

RogerR

17-03-2005, 16:08

the webcast just quit on me, after two matches, and its saying "file not found"...is this happening to anyone else, or is it just me?

p.s. and how about some detailed pics of wildstang, truck town terror, and the beast?

Dr.Bot

17-03-2005, 16:09

When I came back from Lunch 1300 Pacific - the webcast was off - did you guys finish already?

Have Dave Flowerday check is private Delphi Messages - I have a trick to keep the webcast going, even if there is network traffic out of West Laffyette.

I saw 30 viewers at one point.

Kyle

17-03-2005, 16:14

Dave Flowerday

17-03-2005, 16:23

the webcast was off - did you guys finish already?
Sorry, the encoder died with a fatal error of some sort. Should be all set now.

Josh Hambright

17-03-2005, 23:53

The scoring table cam should still be up and running tomorrow, look for more special guests and more robot action, we plan on alternating and moving the camera around for some non streaming web coverage as a super lowtech alternative for the streaming content that wildstang provided, thought we had a computer running both of them side by side so we could watch ourselves cuz we are that super vain, i mean never mind.

I hope to have the match schedule up at some point, if i can find someone to type it in early in the morning, the matches have been generated and the scoring system should be good to go tomorrow, including REAL TIME SCORING! w00t!

Rich Kressly

18-03-2005, 08:48

OK,
All ready to go here ...
scoring table cam in one corner of the screen
111 webcast above that
now, if we can get the scoring software fully functional with the match list and results .... ohhhhh....
Why does Karthik get all the scoring table love? ;)

Josh Hambright

18-03-2005, 09:15

OK so we are having some issues getting the first website to update with the current matches right now, so we have a static match list up on indiana first.

the address is:
http://indianafirst.org/webcam/matche.html

This is not an official FIRST match list, this is not to be used or anything other then remote viewing and we are not responsible for the validity of the data, this site will not be updated with scores with any regularity, we may put the elimination rounds up on the same site, we'll see. But yah there ya go for all of you watching webcasts.

things should be getting under way in a few minutes, teams are qued, bots on the field, opening ceremonies about to begin, HOLLA!

Karthik

18-03-2005, 09:33

OK so we are having some issues getting the first website to update with the current matches right now, so we have a static match list up on indiana first.

the address is:
http://indianafirst.org/webcam/matche.html

Thanks so much guys. This is awesome for us FIRST couch potatoes.

Looking at this schedule, watchout for match number 2:

Red: 45, 1108, 269
Blue: 68, 71, 1501

That should be a good one to start the day.

Randy

18-03-2005, 09:36

Jesus, turn the sound down ... very distorted

Dave Flowerday

18-03-2005, 10:06

Jesus, turn the sound down ... very distorted
Sorry, nothing I can do about it. I have the gain turned down as far as it will go - it's the signal they're feeding us.

Rich Kressly

18-03-2005, 10:19

everything looks good ....
any way to shrink the real time scoring thing?? It eats up wayyy to much of the screen. Maybe just the scores and not the tringles?

J Flex 188

18-03-2005, 10:24

Karthik was right. That second match ended up being a doozy for only the first day of quals. Blue beats Red 58-40. A large large number of tetras into play!

Dave Flowerday

18-03-2005, 10:27

everything looks good ....
any way to shrink the real time scoring thing?? It eats up wayyy to much of the screen. Maybe just the scores and not the tringles?
We're just broadcasting the feed from FIRST (same as the big TV in the arena) so we can't do anything about the overlay.

Rich Kressly

18-03-2005, 10:41

10-4
I'm glad for the statistics, but it makes it almost impossible to identify a robot number close to the floor. Great match between 111 and 234 ... 16 is next ... soooooo many awesome teams to watch

chinckley

18-03-2005, 10:47

Thanks to Team 111 Wildstang and to NASA.
For those of us attending only one regional this is
a great thing to have available.

Embok

18-03-2005, 11:20

Wow...

Did I just see a 114-0 game? Every goal controlled by Blue...

And is it just me or does 71's bot look familiar?

Edit - 60 penalty points for one team... Most games don't break 50...

Ryan Albright

18-03-2005, 11:30

the scoring table camera is awesome, if i am not mistaken that is amanda not wearing safety glasses!

o wait is that brandon?! in the green shirt

thoughtful

18-03-2005, 12:01

I just want to thank Wildstang, Nasa and everyone who made this webcast possible. I havent seen such a high quality live feed in ages. I know its a lot of hard work, but you guys have done a great favor to all us hardcore fans.

so THANKYOU :)

Don Knight

18-03-2005, 12:04

Sorry, nothing I can do about it. I have the gain turned down as far as it will go - it's the signal they're feeding us.

Dave,
Could you try movng the audio to the "line in" for the sound that might fix the problem, or if its already in "line level" switch it to other audio input. Pictures are great, thanks for the webcast. Congrats on beating the AZ high score of 112-13.
Don

Mr. Lim

18-03-2005, 12:11

Dave Flowerday

18-03-2005, 12:38

Could you try movng the audio to the "line in" for the sound that might fix the problem, or if its already in "line level" switch it to other audio input.
The capture card only has a single (line-level) input and it is connected to the live level output provided by the A/V guys, so not much I can do there.

I found a gain control in the encoder program itself that I just lowered so let me know if it sounds better. However, it may already have been clipped before it gets there so it may not help.

Kevin Sevcik

18-03-2005, 12:39

So while it's illegal to do this by design... If you could consistently do it by accident, you'd be okay.

Beth Sweet

18-03-2005, 12:42

So while it's illegal to do this by design... If you could consistently do it by accident, you'd be okay.

Anything that's consistently done by accident tends to be in reality done by intent and if that move is illegal, it's much frowned upon to do it...

RogerR

18-03-2005, 12:58

AM I GOING CRAZY?!

I think I just witnessed the greatest tetra cap EVER.

234 spun around a little out of control in the last seconds of the match of Q15. The tetra they were holding flew off the arm, and got airborne. It was heading straight for the middle driver station, but somehow caught the top of the goal, and stacked itself perfectly...

The robot was still about 6 feet away from the goal...

UN-BE-LIEV-ABLE!
i saw that too, though i thought it was one of the other bots...

either way, it just beat the vault by 190 over 237 at river rage...i hope that they recorded match 15, so i can watch the replay.

Don Knight

18-03-2005, 13:14

The capture card only has a single (line-level) input and it is connected to the live level output provided by the A/V guys, so not much I can do there.

I found a gain control in the encoder program itself that I just lowered so let me know if it sounds better. However, it may already have been clipped before it gets there so it may not help.

Dave,
Think you found it sound much better now, only cracks every once and a while. Thanks again for the great webcast.
Don

Collmandoman

18-03-2005, 13:16

I believe that is the announcers voice cracking =)

Stephen Kowski

18-03-2005, 13:26

maybe I missed it, but what was the 10 pt penalty in match 22....Maybe I misheard, but I thought the announcer said there was a 10 pt penalty for aggressive play....please someone correct me or whatever....

Ryan Albright

18-03-2005, 13:30

71 and 111 going against each other in that match that was a great match. Alot of scoring hmmm we will see who won

Edit: 84-26 blue alliance with team 71 very nice

Alaina

18-03-2005, 15:05

Ohh I want to see it!!!!
But I can't!!!
My computer at home is too slow, so I hear the commentary but there's only still shots ever 10 seconds or so...
And the computers at school won't allow me to stream it (grrr network rules)
:(

Edit: OMGZ IT'S WORKING! *is happy*
Go Wildstang!!1! :D

Josh Hambright

18-03-2005, 15:20

watch the unnoficial webcast, with the audio you can almost imagine yourself sitting behind the scoring table:)
http://indianafirst.org/webcam

Ohh and the matches and results were updates on indiana first around lunch here, we might mirror them again tonight, though i might take it down since first is no longer posting the match results on their site, atleast not at this time they aren't until some issues are worked out.

Randy

18-03-2005, 15:24

At peachtree we just used the clock instead of the realtime scoring (even though it didn't work). The production people were complaining about having to shoot so wide.

I'm sure if you mentioned it to the production people (even though they should see it), they shoot wider.

soap108

18-03-2005, 15:44

Joe Ross

18-03-2005, 16:10

TD78

18-03-2005, 16:44

any day one standings yet?

Molly Menges

18-03-2005, 22:21

Edit - 60 penalty points for one team... Most games don't break 50...

Yeah, ill take the blame for that one....I made the mistake of telling my rookie drivers to play defense.....

If we wouldnt have done it, the score would have been much much worse

Edit: Oops...this is D.J. Fluck on Molly Menges' laptop :D

Collin Fultz

19-03-2005, 07:35

Update 15 added a 10 point penalty to <G25> which is the rule about aggressive play.

and it wasn't just agressive play, but excessively agressive play.

playing agressive isn't illegal, but when damage could be intentionally done, a call had to be made.

Kit Gerhart

19-03-2005, 08:47

Yesterday there was a match list at:

http://indianafirst.org/webcam/matche.html

It is not there now. Does anyone know of an on-line match list and/or rankings?

Josh Hambright

19-03-2005, 09:06

I took down the match list, because FIRST for some reason is not publishing the match list and results, so we are respecting their decision.

Sorry,
If FIRST posts it we will post it.

Kit Gerhart

19-03-2005, 11:42

I took down the match list, because FIRST for some reason is not publishing the match list and results, so we are respecting their decision.

Sorry,
If FIRST posts it we will post it.
The fact that FIRST is not posting match lists and results is why it was such a valuable service for indianafirst.org to do so. I suspect that FIRST is not posting the results because of lack of resources, not because they object to having them posted. Am I missing something here?

Joel J

19-03-2005, 11:47

Can someone share the final seedings at Boilermaker?

TD78

19-03-2005, 11:56

1. 71
2. 1024
3. 68
4. 1103
5. 1022
6. 234
7. 1272
8. 135

Pat McCarthy

19-03-2005, 12:05

Alliance selections for Boilermaker

71 1024 269
68 45 292
1103 111 868
1022 703 548
234 16 393
1272 1108 554
135 876 93
1501 447 1502

Josh Hambright

19-03-2005, 13:03

Match results are back online at the address i posted yesterday and the address kit posted earlier.

Hopefully we wont get in trouble for this.

The final results will be posted by somebody eventualy.

Rock on.

Josh

The Lucas

19-03-2005, 14:43

semi finals:

71 1024 269
234 16 393

135 876 93
1272 1108 554

All upsets accept the #1 seed (71 1024 269)

The Lucas

19-03-2005, 15:29

finals

71 1024 269
135 876 93

Amazing, 135 876 93 is the #7 seed alliance

Josh Hambright

19-03-2005, 15:34

Number 1(71) seed Vs Number 41(93) Seed in the finals:)

w00t!

This is starting to get interesting....

Back to the scoring program... :cool:

thoughtful

19-03-2005, 15:45

Final #1 tied at 39, this is very exciting :D

Josh Hambright

19-03-2005, 15:49

Hahaha this is awesome, if for those of you watching the webcam, did you notice JVN and my face after that one:)

I think we are going to turn the webcam towards the field for the rest of the finals, so we dont give anything away, and so we can have a low connection speed wy for people to watch at home.
http://indianafirst.org/webcam/

"...Its a tie, wait....ITS A TIE! hold on lemme check these" - JVN

thoughtful

19-03-2005, 16:13

Best finals ever all is down to one final match! i am jumpiong up and down :D

tkwetzel

19-03-2005, 16:15

Going into a fourth match...how exciting can it get?!?!?

Ryan Albright

19-03-2005, 16:16

This is awesome i am standing up in my room i cant even sit down

Ali Ahmed

19-03-2005, 16:20

Looks like everybody wins.

The Lucas

19-03-2005, 16:21

Fourth match... It's so great they can't even get the match started.
Looks like Josh and JVN got distracted. :D

Ryan Albright

19-03-2005, 16:22

omg 71 tipped
!!!!!

Tytus Gerrish

19-03-2005, 16:24

DUDE!!!! That was Hottt

the Bigger they are...

tkwetzel

19-03-2005, 16:29

71, 1024, and 269 win!

Awesome finals and congratulations to all 6 teams.

Ryan Albright

19-03-2005, 16:29

we need a picture of the feild with everything scored i want to see it again

The Lucas

19-03-2005, 16:33

we need a picture of the feild with everything scored i want to see it again
You can rewind the webcast by clicking on the position bar. I watched it twice while waiting for the final score.

I wish they hadn't assessed 20 penalty points to make it 33-12. It would have been more poetic 33-32. It's still the best Regional Final I've seen.

Travis Hoffman

19-03-2005, 16:44

You can rewind the webcast by clicking on the position bar. I watched it twice while waiting for the final score.

I wish they hadn't assessed 20 penalty points to make it 33-12. It would have been more poetic 33-32. It's still the best Regional Final I've seen.
What were the penalties for? I didn't get to watch the webcast, but I have a good idea what they were.......

Josh Hambright

19-03-2005, 18:09

Great regional.

Thank you Dave and Wildstang for providing the webcast, and thanks to purdue for providing the internet connection.

Hope you guys enjoyed our show too:)

Rock and roll.

Josh

Ohh and in response to this one:
Fourth match... It's so great they can't even get the match started.
Looks like Josh and JVN got distracted. :D
Dont blame me, blame the software, it was showing the match number as "ERROR" and then froze up when we tried to replay it as match Finals #1 so yah, that was one of those 'high stress moments'

tkwetzel

19-03-2005, 18:16

I ahve to second what Josh said: Thank you very much to any of you who helped out in bringing us the webcast, it was great that you could include us in your competition. I was talking with a few people online while watching it and we all greatly enjoyed the quality of the feed as well as the quality of the competition. Congratulations to all the teams for putting on a great show.

The Lucas

19-03-2005, 19:06

Dont blame me, blame the software, it was showing the match number as "ERROR" and then froze up when we tried to replay it as match Finals #1 so yah, that was one of those 'high stress moments'
Maybe they will list it as match number "ERROR" whenever they put the results up on the FIRST site :rolleyes: The competition software is crazy this year ...*cough* Windows *cough*. It makes me glad I'm a robot inspector.

But seriously, great job everyone. That was a great webcast (I got to watch two regionals from my dorm room). Unfortunately, now everyone is going to bug Wildstang to cut and post the videos of the Finals matches. As a children's book once said "If you give a mouse a cookie..." :D

Kit Gerhart

19-03-2005, 20:41

The webcast was great. I expected Boilermaker to be a great event, and it was. There were a lot of good matches, not surprisingly, given the number of "powerhouse" teams at the event. I'm looking forward to seeing all you northerners in Atlanta.

Captain Rich

19-03-2005, 22:12

The webcasts weren't saved somewhere, were they? I would love to see what 71 created this year, and by the sounds of it, the regonal was very exciting.

BlackKnight135

19-03-2005, 22:17

The webcasts weren't saved somewhere, were they? I would love to see what 71 created this year, and by the sounds of it, the regonal was very exciting.

I would love to have a copy of the regional I had so much fun there and I want to watch all of my teams rounds again. Congrads to all that was such an awsome finals see you all at Atlanta.

Dave Flowerday

19-03-2005, 22:45

Unfortunately, now everyone is going to bug Wildstang to cut and post the videos of the Finals matches. As a children's book once said "If you give a mouse a cookie..." :D
Sorry guys, I tried to get it to save the stream as it was broadcast but couldn't get it to work. I didn't have a lot of time to mess with it so we didn't get the stream recorded. Maybe next time.. ;)

I'm glad the webcast worked out well. Thanks to Dr. Bot and NASA for hosting it on their servers and to the planning committee for setting up the Internet feed that we used!

Masterfork

20-03-2005, 00:05

check soap hq next week they should have it archived maybe

Dr.Bot

20-03-2005, 01:01

NASA was glad to help. I was watching from home and it was just amazing.

We had upto 160 people online simultanously during the finals.

FIRST is always about raising the bar for everyone. Well the darn 111 guys have set the bar pretty high for me, trying to webcast the SVR next week.
(I might be a bit distracted since I'll be insoecting and also routing for 254!) I hope we can do as good a job both webcasting and competition wise as you did in West Laffyette.

I just loved 16's corkscrew tetra grabber, and Cyber Blue, WildStang, and of course the 'Beast' put on quite a show. I'll gladly put an archive of the final four matches up if someone either sends my a tape or encodes them and puts them up for download to the NASA server. You guys may not now this, but I lived and worked in Fort Wayne, IN for 10 years, and am well familar with South Side, HS. It was like being back home again, in Indiana!

I'll look forward to seeing you at the NATs.

Josh Hambright

20-03-2005, 10:26

I know that Chris Noble from 1018 and also team 461 captured the whole event on hard drives, what will be done with those hard drives is anyones, guesse. So yah, i'll see if i cant get them to put them online.

Amanda Morrison

20-03-2005, 12:19

The event was captured by the regional digitally as it was broadcasted. We will have more information on the availablity of the material soon.

BlackKnight135

20-03-2005, 15:59

The event was captured by the regional digitally as it was broadcasted. We will have more information on the availablity of the material soon.

That would be great I want to show some of my family the regional.

Masterfork

20-03-2005, 16:53

That would be great I want to show some of my family the regional.
hey what was the highest score of the regional

dubious elise

20-03-2005, 18:43

What were the penalties for? I didn't get to watch the webcast, but I have a good idea what they were.......
The penalties were from a lot of shoving from (I believe) 93 and 135. I would love to be able to watch those matches again, you really see surprisingly little as a human player, even when you are within 3 feet of the field!

roboticsguy1988

20-03-2005, 19:27

The penalties were from a lot of shoving from (I believe) 93 and 135. I would love to be able to watch those matches again, you really see surprisingly little as a human player, even when you are within 3 feet of the field!

963 was terrible at shoving robots..... they got a few penalties, but there were times when for some reason the teams the hit got the penalties instead.

Does anyone know why, i believe it was team 71, in the final matches, didn't get a penalty for going over the wall with the stack of two tetras? It hit one of our team members when it happened and barely missed our captain and a ref. I could tell the ref was mad, because he stuck his hands up and stuff. But i thought they should have been disabled there and then, and if not that the should have still got a penalty. I was surprised at that.

AndyB

20-03-2005, 19:39

hmm, i dont even know if there is anything in the rules that say you get a penalty for falling. Im sure it was frustrating though. Not to mention a bit scary. Im waiting for the archive to be posted myself. You know elise, if our team would have bought me a camera, lol, i could have recorded it all. Lol, jking, but anyways . . .

Ryan Dognaux

20-03-2005, 19:50

roboticsguy1988

20-03-2005, 20:02

I questioned this as well. I was standing behind the blue player station, and I don't know if a team was pushing 71 or not, but their arm went over the wall with tetras in hand, and the tetras hit one of THURST's operators. The ref that was standing there didn't do much of anything, while we were yelling because we were concerned for that student's safety. If a team was pushing 71 and made them go up and over the wall, their power should have been cut. If it was just 71 going up and over, then their power should have been cut. Someone could have been seriously injured, luckily no one was.

I agree, and as far as i know it was just 71. James, the person on our team who got hit by it is fine, no injury besides a bruse. I remember seeing our drivers captain step back when he seen them coming over the wall, and i also seen the ref step back and wave his arms and also wave to back up the robot. But yeah if those would have fell or even came over the wall a little differnt, someone could have got hurt a lot more. I was so surprised when they didn't get disable, nor get a penalty.

Josh Hambright

20-03-2005, 20:40

Does anyone know why, i believe it was team 71, in the final matches, didn't get a penalty for going over the wall with the stack of two tetras? It hit one of our team members when it happened and barely missed our captain and a ref. I could tell the ref was mad, because he stuck his hands up and stuff. But i thought they should have been disabled there and then, and if not that the should have still got a penalty. I was surprised at that.

Okay from what i heard from Paul the head ref when we asked about it, and from the general consensus from what i have heard as far as disabling robots goes this year. It is more dangerous to kill a robot over the drivers station or other people then it is to let them back out and then disable them. Due to the fact that cutting power to some robots could result in them releasing the tetras and thus possibly hurting more people. Plus in this case if i remeber correctly, the call was made off of the fact that 71 was trying to score tetras and was shoved in the process, because of the placement of field elements this year it increases the chance of teams crossing into otherwise forbidden territory because the goals are right there by the wall.
I wondered about the disabling of 71 as well, but i agree with the refs call on that one.

As a matter of fact, only 1 robot was disabled by the refs at boilermaker, and that was when 45 tipped right onto the scoring table, they were then pushed by another robot which almost resulted in amanda morrison getting an arm to the face, man the look on her face was pretty priceless:) We concluded it had to do with andy bakers resentment of being refered to as TechnoKittens. :)

roboticsguy1988

20-03-2005, 20:44

Okay from what i heard from Paul the head ref when we asked about it, and from the general consensus from what i have heard as far as disabling robots goes this year. It is more dangerous to kill a robot over the drivers station or other people then it is to let them back out and then disable them. Plus in this case if i remeber correctly, the call was made off of the fact that 71 was trying to score tetras and was shoved in the process, because of the placement of field elements this year it increases the chance of teams crossing into otherwise forbidden territory because the goals are right there by the wall.

As a matter of fact, only 1 robot was disabled by the refs at boilermaker, and that was when 45 tipped right onto the scoring table, they were then pushed by another robot which almost resulted in amanda morrison getting an arm to the face, man the look on her face was pretty priceless:) We concluded it had to do with andy bakers resentment of being refered to as TechnoKittens. :)

True, i can see your point. But my point is, even after they backed away they didn't get disable nor penalized. And i did not here about that other situation. I am glad to know that everyone is ok though. And yes i thought that was so hialrious when they got refeered to as the TechnoKittens :D

Travis Hoffman

20-03-2005, 20:51

The penalties were from a lot of shoving from (I believe) 93 and 135. I would love to be able to watch those matches again, you really see surprisingly little as a human player, even when you are within 3 feet of the field!
Yup, as I suspected. Thanks for the info. I'm curious to know what exactly 93 and 135 were doing to warrant these penalties based on the rules. Again, please keep in mind I didn't get a chance to view the webcast. In what way were the explicit rules of the game violated?

Thanks,

Andy Baker

21-03-2005, 01:23

As a matter of fact, only 1 robot was disabled by the refs at boilermaker, and that was when 45 tipped right onto the scoring table, they were then pushed by another robot which almost resulted in amanda morrison getting an arm to the face, man the look on her face was pretty priceless:) We concluded it had to do with andy bakers resentment of being refered to as TechnoKittens. :)

Yep.... that was it, Josh. It was the first match of our quarter-final round, and our plan was to tip the robot over in front of the scorers table instead of winning the match. You caught us there. Can't slip anything by you. :)

As for the regional, it was great. The competition was as good as expected. In my opinion, the best thing was seeing soooooo many college-aged FIRST mentors step up into important positions at a regional. 1/2 of the referee crew were college students, and the whole scoring crew were college students. The Purdue students who helped run the regional were great. There are just too many to point out. Over the past year, it has been amazing to see these students develop their skills (they have EXCELLENT SKILLS) and be so valuable to an event. Their energy, passion, and dedication to getting the job done makes us old folks look slow.

Also... a big congrats goes out to Carolyn Percifield for being the Boilermaker Regional Volunteer of the Year. She was the constant force in keeping the regional on the track of success.

I can't wait until next year.

Andy B.

Curt Henderson

21-03-2005, 19:45

I questioned this as well. I was standing behind the blue player station, and I don't know if a team was pushing 71 or not, but their arm went over the wall with tetras in hand, and the tetras hit one of THURST's operators. The ref that was standing there didn't do much of anything, while we were yelling because we were concerned for that student's safety. If a team was pushing 71 and made them go up and over the wall, their power should have been cut. If it was just 71 going up and over, then their power should have been cut. Someone could have been seriously injured, luckily no one was.

I just rewatched the match in question as I was there with a camcorder in hand and 71 was not touched by another robot when they came over the wall. They came racing down the field to cap the corner tetra and must have missed judged their speed. They raised thier arm while they were moving at max speed and the momentum carried them into/over the wall. It wasn't until they were trying to back-up to reposition when the other robot tried to impede their movement and held them in the corner.

Being a member of Team THRUST, I felt they should have been disabled at the time or at least penalized at the match's end but, in the end, the decisions were made, no one got hurt and life goes on for everyone. Let it go down as just another exciting match.

Poopoo

21-03-2005, 20:31

though the fact that we could have won the match and continued in the event should not be over looked. As a member of team thrust I believe the matter should not have been taken so lightly. I think we should have forced the matter open a little more during the end. Makes me kinda glad i was int he pits for that match.

roboticsguy1988

21-03-2005, 21:56

Ryan Dognaux

21-03-2005, 22:30

i mean i seen other teams get penalized for even smaller things, yet when one team goes over the wall with a stack of two tetras hitting a person and barely missing another they don't get penalized?

I'd have to agree with you on this one. Teams get penalized 30 points for literally tapping a robot in a loading zone, but when one presents an actually dangerous threat, nothing is done. That's wack.

Ricky Q.

21-03-2005, 23:13

I agree that if they were panelized we would have got to go on. But my main concern is the safety risks. But everything luckily turned out ok in the end.

One thing though, just to be fair they should have been penalized, i mean i seen other teams get penalized for even smaller things, yet when one team goes over the wall with a stack of two tetras hitting a person and barely missing another they don't get penalized?

Like i said before, i don't really care about the win or lose issue. I care more about the fact that someone could have been seriously hurt, and nothing was done about it.
During the driver's meeting on Thursday, Paul George, the Head Ref, explained to teams that if this happened and presented a safety issue that the offending team would be warned, then disabled if it happened again, then possibly DQ'd. Never did he say a penalty would be issued for this offense, if he had then perhaps it would be acceptable to ask why one was not given. But he did not, so that is why one was not given.

roboticsguy1988

21-03-2005, 23:19

Travis Hoffman

22-03-2005, 08:35

During the driver's meeting on Thursday, Paul George, the Head Ref, explained to teams that if this happened and presented a safety issue that the offending team would be warned, then disabled if it happened again, then possibly DQ'd. Never did he say a penalty would be issued for this offense, if he had then perhaps it would be acceptable to ask why one was not given. But he did not, so that is why one was not given.Seriously, it would have been nice for all team members and the crowd in attendance to know that. You can't honestly expect those drive team kids to communicate that info to everyone on their team - they're already under enough pressure to focus on the game at hand as it is. We talk about wasting bandwidth and posting needless stuff on these forums - all such debate on this topic is needless stuff and would have been eliminated if one simple 30-second announcement was made to everyone in attendance at Boilermaker.

In my opinion, the safety and game-transforming factors involved with robot arms swinging or falling outside the sidelines and tetras dangling over the player station make these issues far too important to leave the associated scoring and penalty decisions in the hands of the individual referee crews. FIRST has taken the initiative to place an even greater emphasis on safety this year, and it seems counter to that initiative if they leave this major safety decision up to each of the regional volunteer staffs. I've got to hope and assume FIRST understands this and is working on a standardized ruling that will be applied across the board and communicated to everyone. But since they have yet to release such a ruling, the severity of the penalties for robots who get a little crazy with their arms can still be debated....

I think a simple warning for placing someone's health and safety at risk is a little too lenient. If I remember correctly, a 10-point penalty was levied against any team last year that dangled a cushy air-filled ball even a little bit over the protective lexan of the player's station. So completely violating that space with a very hard object and striking other players nets only a warning? Oy.

The simplest, safest, and most logical solution to all of this would be to add more protective guarding above the player stations, as Kyle from 365 suggested in another thread. However, the $$$$ and logistics involved with that are probably too great an obstacle to overcome at this point in the season, so.....

A standard set of penalties should be put in place, but FIRST will still have to rely on the fair judgment of the referees to call the penalties when they are warranted. A proposal:

1. The "WARNING" will not come during a match; instead, it will come at the beginning of every competition day when the head ref communicates this rule to everyone in attendance and tells drivers NOT TO DO IT. EVER. Wouldn't that be simple? The refs then would not have to ever keep track of which teams had been warned and which hadn't, making their jobs easier. You're welcome.

2. Much like last year, a 10-point penalty will be levied each time a robot's arm OBVIOUSLY breaks the vertical plane of the operator's station with a tetra. Keep the arms low around the home goals. If the stacks are high there (and they tend not to be), be extra careful. The refs in each player station area should be shouting out each infraction to drive teams as they occur.

3. Any time a robot arm holding a tetra (or tetras) violates the space above a player station to the point where there is an obvious and sustained risk of tetras falling and causing injury to humans or damage to team controls for at least two seconds or more, and the robot operator refuses to comply with referee instructions to back off, in addition to receiving a 10-point penalty, that team will be ordered to back off, out of the opponent's home zone, if applicable, and remove the safety hazard, at which point, it will be disabled for the rest of the match. Failure to comply with this command in a standard amount of time (10 seconds) will result in a DQ. The defensive bots in the area will be instructed by the refs that the offensive team will be disabled, and they should not impede the removal of the offensive team's arm from the area above the player's station.

4. Teams playing defense in the areas around the player stations will be cautioned not to create the dangerous situation described above by actively using their arms to push the offensive robot's arm or tetra(s) into a dangerous position. Failure to comply will result in the defensive team receiving the penalties for whatever infractions were committed by the offensive team's arm. It should be blatantly obvious that the defensive team is ACTIVELY pushing high here - teams who raise their arms vertically to PASSIVELY block an offensive advance should not be penalized - in this case, the offensive team should then recieve the penalties for any infractions that occur.

5. If a defensive robot is playing legal defense by pushing low AND not getting underneath an offensive robot, they will NOT be penalized for the offensive robot's inability to control its arm during this contact. The offensive team must either retract its arm or risk receiving the penalties described above.

6. Robot disablement for safety infractions which occur along the sidelines will proceed as currently called. There will be no point penalties for dangerous situations, but the refs have the power to disable a bot at their discretion. I think falling onto the scorer's table falls into this category. :p If a defensive bot pushing high causes such a dangerous situation to occur along the sidelines, they will be disabled too. Legal, low pushing will not result in disablement of the defensive robot, if it is obvious they aren't continuing to drive their robot under the CG-challenged offensive bot if it begins to destablilize and tip over. Watch out, wedges and low riders. Do not exacerbate an unsafe situation.

7. If a robot's arm or a tetra the robot is carrying ever strikes an operator, human player, coach, ref, field volunteer, or Grandma Baker sitting in the stands, a DQ will immediately be levied against the team whose robot was at fault, based upon the rules outlined above. This is simply unexcusable and must be discouraged with the most severe penalty possible.

It is obvious that at some regionals, robot drivers with tall arms did not feel they needed to exercise the restraint, caution, and control required when entering an area where human safety is an issue, primarily because the penalties weren't severe or as swift enough to worry about. FIRST must be clear, firm, and concise (much more concise that I was, anyway) in communicating and enforcing the penalties related to this issue.

One final thing - a way to eliminate half the potential for penalties is to simply not call any penalties on drivers and teams who are foolish enough to dangle tetras over their own player stations when trying to cap, since their safety is already placed directly in their hands. I don't know how much their alliance partners would like for them to dangle/drop tetras over/onto them during a match, but I'm sure GP would prevail and a lot of interesting discussion would settle any differences following the conclusion of the match....

AmyPrib

22-03-2005, 09:16

Travis Hoffman

22-03-2005, 10:13

Just a note - please post/continue discussions about rules and strategies in the section of CD that discusses those issues. That way, everyone can see your comments and reply to them in the appropriate place.
Thanks,Amy:

Thanks for the reminder - you are quite right. While I don't expect much more discussion on the webcast itself, our comments on this particular topic, especially my insanely long one, are definitely cluttering up this thread. I see that Stu Bloom copied the bulk of my long post into a more appropriate thread:

http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=35770

Perhaps Brandon or another moderator could do some rearranging to put everything where it belongs? I will refrain from posting further in this thread.
I'm sorry for creating the clutter.

Thanks,