Championships location from 07 and onwards

[artdutra04]

Orlando/Disney in 08 or 09...

Disney is building a new sports complex + arena... like huge football type arena...

DISCUSS!!!I'd love to have the Championships back at Disney World!

But here's a new idea for all of you - what about a mini-Nationals / super super-regional that would be held at Epcot again?

Thank about it, three fields, about 160 teams, back at Epcot... You can even have an "off-season" mentality to the event, where the mood is a lot more festive since it would be held at Epcot. You can even host the event at the end of June, two months after the Championships and right at the begining of summer break, and make it a giant celebration of everything FIRST. Who can resist that? :D

I'd like this idea, because I'm biased; I'm already missing Atlanta. That's right everyone, I am officially suffering from PCAD - Post-Championshipitis Adjustment Disorder! And the sad thing is, I know there are probably thousands of other people who are suffering from this right now as well.

I was so bored in school today, that all I wanted to do was to walk outside to the grassy area and hang out with other cool CDers like in Atlanta. You know, hang out in the shade, chat, play frisbee, toss Genia, start Sharpie wars, watch Matt get dunked in the fountains for the umpteenth time. Good times, good times... If only I could somehow put that into words for the hall monitor as I tried to "get some fresh air" between classes today. Senioritis they know about, but PCAD is a totally new ball game to them. :yikes:

[Joe Matt]

Orlando/Disney in 08 or 09...

Disney is building a new sports complex + arena... like huge football type arena...

DISCUSS!!!

It's called Wide World of Sports, it's been around for many years now. Nobody really uses it. I'd love to go there, but I think Disney is over guys. I hope not...

[Billfred]

It's called Wide World of Sports, it's been around for many years now. Nobody really uses it. I'd love to go there, but I think Disney is over guys. I hope not...
I seem to recall rumblings of an off-season event to take place there, but nothing came from it. Might have potential.

[Jon Jack]

Well according to the GD's calendar (http://www.gadome.com/booking/calendar.html) Championships will be held at the GD through '08.

[Nawaid Ladak]

Nope, No offesason event at epcot.... This year......,


You know, disney is one of our sponcers


I'll c what i can do for next year...

Is there any proof for Epcot 08-09" Championship

[ahirsch2589]

from what i hear, the championships in epcot was amazing, id love to have it back there

[arabsponsor]

[

Unfortunatly those cities probably out price themselves. I mean for those teams that have buses drive them everywhere, the gas prices just outside NYC on Sunday were $2.37 a gallon, and I could only imagine how much money it would cost to get a hotel room or for FIRST to pay for a building, and I'm sure LA and the west coast out price themselves too.[/QUOTE]


$2.37 a gallon? In our little town of Arab, Alabama we are paying $2.93 a gallon :( !!! Although I love the Atlanta venue (plus it's close enough to take a school bus-Save money!) I know my students would love to see another area of the country. I think Salt Lake would be great. It would definitely take a lot more money but I would be willing to raise it so my kids could see there really is a world out there!

[Phalanx]

There is a Technical Professional Conference I attend twice yearly. What this conference does is hold one event on the east coast and the one on the west coast. What was done prior to that was a single annual event the moved all over the country each year. East, West, and Central regions.

Obviously FIRST can't hold the Championship Event twice, but they could consider holding the event in different places each a year. This would make it such that teams one year wouldn't have to travel far, but would the next. It would balance out the costs, would allow for different teams to be able to attend over time.

[dangerousdave]

arabsponsor said: $2.37 a gallon? In our little town of Arab, Alabama we are paying $2.93 a gallon !!! Be advised that price was posted in April of 2005 as this thread goes back to the 2005 Championship's. Manhattan gas prices today begin at $3.11 per gallon while downtown Atlanta gas prices are $2.99 today. Suburban Atlanta prices are $2.73-2.80.

Dave

[Rick-906]

MONTREAL!!!! nah just kidding... but hey, maybe Toronto could host it, it does have the largest regional! i realize this is unrealistic thinking however, seeing as most teams are American

[coreyk]

It would be great to have Nationals in Disney again - from what I have gathered it was an extremely convenient, organized, and overall fun event – with the parks, food, and other activities in close proximity, plus plenty of room for expansion. I do not think anyone would complain with that venue switch - who does not enjoy Disney?

However, it is true that a contract has been signed with Atlanta for the
next 3 years.

Corey

[David Brinza]

It would be great to have Nationals in Disney again - from what I have gathered it was an extremely convenient, organized, and overall fun event – with the parks, food, and other activities in close proximity, plus plenty of room for expansion. I do not think anyone would complain with that venue switch - who does not enjoy Disney? By convenient, do you mean that the venue was not walking distance from any of the hotels (even on the Disney property), the pits and fields were located in a large parking lot, three of the playing fields were in a large tent with the type of stands that you would find at a high school football field, the Einstein field was on a stage with the large stands quite a distance from the stage and fully exposed to the outdoor elements, the teams rotated among the various fields so scouts and spectators had to move from match-to-match and the concessions stopped selling everything (including water) before the awards ceremony? I'm not so sure that Epcot was as wonderful as you might imagine. Still, the 2002 Nationals was an amazing and exciting event and got me "hooked" on FIRST big time...

[Andy Baker]

... plus plenty of room for expansion. I do not think anyone would complain with that venue switch - who does not enjoy Disney?


From what I can tell, there were 2 main reasons FIRST went away from Disney:

1. It cost very much.
2. There was no room for expansion.

Also, these are the 2 main reasons FIRST has not returned.

Andy B.

[slickguy2007]

From what I can tell, there were 2 main reasons FIRST went away from Disney:

1. It cost very much.
2. There was no room for expansion.

Also, these are the 2 main reasons FIRST has not returned.

Andy B.

Also, I believe they are concerned that the surrounding attractions draw too many people away from the competition. This was true especially after finals started.

GO 1403!!!

[Heretic121]

It's called Wide World of Sports, it's been around for many years now. Nobody really uses it. I'd love to go there, but I think Disney is over guys. I hope not...
um... i mean... like an arena like the GA dome or something to that effect... i know of the sports complex...

[Lea103]

From what I have heard from my mentors and the seniors on the team...

1. The water wasn't being sold because it was free. There were barrels of free water donated by the Shasta Company with FIRST logos on the bottles

2.Disney has an entire sports arena which can house up to 17,000 people, plus and is willing to discuss possible expansion. It is my understanding that if Disney wants to hold an Olympic event that they are prepared to do so.

3.Although the finals were outdoors, all other divisions were played in large air-conditioned tents as well as the pits.

4. In addition, there was a special tent set-up for free Internet access and a separate machine shop.

5.The distance between the pits and the competition tents was minimal.

6. Although, this was a constructed village in a parking lot, it was done in true Disney style, along with thousands of feet of outdoor carpeting throughout the entire event. FIRST even had their own store.

7.Shuttles to the hotels were provided and made special stops at the FIRST location. The cost for the hotels was actually less than what the team is now paying in Atlanta. We were guaranteed to be located all on the same floor of what ever hotel we selected. In addition, we were given a security guard at night to monitor our area In case of an emergency situation. We were also given access to a van for our team mentors to use as needed and provided with transportation from the airport. The food was moderately priced, and of excellent quality -plenty was available for breakfast and lunch. The lines moved relatively quickly.

8.Evening entertainment included access to all of the Disney Parks that were open, including an after hours pass for FIRST participants. Unlike what is available in Atlanta. The team party was professionally organized by Disney organizers to be appropriate for all participants. It was located in Epcot, open only to FIRST participants.

9. Disney is a safer and more controlled area. That is very family and team oriented area and truly kid safe.

10.Disney is also a reward for all of us who have worked so hard during the entire season and somewhere we can all look forward to going.

This is a place where I hope to see Nationals return to, because of its outstanding organization, unmatched dedication to participants, and overall excellence in insuring safety, fun, and success of the event. I can't imagine why Disney would not want to host this event as they host many large groups annually. My vote goes to Walt Disney World in Orlando, Florida.

http://img52.imageshack.us/img52/2331/untitled219hj.gif

-Lea

[coreyk]

It has my vote. Those are all valid points - how many people can we get to vote on having it in Disney in the near future? Please reply if you agree.

http://img366.imageshack.us/img366/6380/disney20ti.jpg

-Corey

[Alan Anderson]

10.Disney is also a reward for all of us who have worked so hard during the entire season and somewhere we can all look forward to going.
I don't understand this. Isn't attending the Championship Event rewarding enough? I also think a theme park could easily sap much energy from the competition.

[Madison]

I don't understand this. Isn't attending the Championship Event rewarding enough? I also think a theme park could easily sap much energy from the competition.

Personally speaking, attending the Championship in both Houston and this weekend in Atlanta did not feel rewarding at all. Each time, it felt more like work than anything else -- long days of competing followed by comparatively little options to relax.

Our team has unanimously decided, in fact, to pass on attending the Championship in the future and, in its place, attend additional regional competitions in locations that have more to see and do than the Championship currently provides. Our likeliest destination next season is Southern California and that is precisely because places like Disneyland offer our team a safe, appealing environment to relax and enjoy one anothers' company.

[Billfred]

I don't understand this. Isn't attending the Championship Event rewarding enough? I also think a theme park could easily sap much energy from the competition. I've got to side with Alan here. It was by the proverbial skin of my teeth that I was able to make it to Atlanta this year, and I had a grand old time with just the event itself. (Well, and chilling out in CNN center afterward with friends.)

I'm still not sure how the kids were able to do the theme parks as well. Between the day of working in the Dome and walking back to the hotel, I was shot after each day--and I'm not exactly a geezer, mind you.

[Nawaid Ladak]

PEOPLE, the competition was held in the BACK of the park, in a parking lot, you would most likely need a shuttle to get to the parks.

I think Disney is a great idea, although, im not sure if it has room to really expand, i would consider disney for FLL World Festevel, but FRC competiotion should be played at either Universal Studios Orlando, (They have alot of room over there to expand) or the Orange County Convention Centere On International Drive,

Nice Hotels are nearby. Disney is a 10-20 minute drive from OCC. Universal is the same distance. Hotels are right across the street. Many locations for lunch and dinner, nice selection for Fast food, and Sid down restorants, places to walk around (Point Orlando, just down the read, has many specalty shops and restoraunts and a HUGE arcade, Hooters, movie thearters. and big open areas to walk around) Cheap Entertainment, Miniture Golf, GoCart Racing, rides and all that fun stuff less than 15 minutes away.

And on top of that, i bet you can have 4 Divisions, with two feilds in each division, Einstin, DaVinci and a whole practice feild for each division, plus pits and all the other exibits. ALL under ONE roof.

just my $0.02

[Madison]

PEOPLE, the competition was held in the BACK of the park, in a parking lot, you would most likely need a shuttle to get to the parks.

I assume you never attended the event at Epcot. For most of its run there, it was held in one of Epcot's parking lots (Discover, if I remember correctly) and was located to the side of the park's entry. It was not more than a five minute walk from anywhere at the event into Epcot, or similarly, to the monorail station. There was food available on site, but the event was also convenient enough to Epcot, particularly, that food vouchers good for eateries in the parks were included among the packages.

[JaneYoung]

Hooters? :yikes:

Like Hooters in Austin? :yikes:

Hooters and Disneyworld, hmmm

[coreyk]

Between the day of working in the Dome and walking back to the hotel, I was shot after each day--
The endless walking from the...

Hotel to the Pit Area,
From the Pit Area to the Dome,
From the Dome Entrance to your Division (Far walk for some)
From your Division to the Dome Entrance,
From the Dome Entrance to the CNN Center,
From the CNN Center to the Pit Area,
From the Pit Area to the Dome Entrance,
From the Dome Entrance to your Division,
From your Division to the Dome Entrance,
From the Dome Entrance to the Pit Area
-Repeat 6 or 7 times-
From the Dome to Your Hotel
From your Hotel to Dinner
From Dinner to your Hotel

...Is probably what caused your tiredness. You would have been even more tired if you traveled via the MARTA system. I think one of the main advantages to having it at Disney is that everything is in close proximity – not only in reference to the pits and fields but also to other members on your team - you would be able to work both in the pit and watch matches as well as be in some contact with your entire team without the hike in-between. Don't get me wrong - being able to attend Nationals in itself is extremely rewarding - but - Nationals in Disney would allow students to relax and have fun in a secure and exciting student-friendly environment. After 6+ weeks of constant work, I think that relaxing and having fun in "true Disney style" is the best reward that can be experienced after a long day of competition - and would be enjoyed by all participants and their families.

[EricH]

I admit, Epcot was good spacewise. However, we were right by the main entrance, it was a bit of a walk to parking, and there was a distraction less than 100 yards away: Epcot. There were other distractions that were farther, but had transportation readily available: Magic Kingdom, MGM Studios, and Animal Kingdom. Plus, the sun. If you were watching Einstein, you needed a hat an binoculars. Not to mention the scouting nightmare of teams changing fields, etc. And, if it rained, the pits would get very soggy.

The best place for FIRST to hold Championships is: in a covered football stadium with a convention center or another sports venue nearby. I only know of two places like that, and Houston had those ramps. Atlanta is the other. And, I think Atlanta is the best place for now. If we outgrow that, we'll need a stadium devoted to Championships and robotics year-round.

[coreyk]

The venue is only half of the concern, the other half is the location. The location needs to be safe and have surrounding activities besides the TV in the Hotel room. Disney would have the parks to allow students the freedom to simply not do anything- no scouting, no speaking with judges, no VIP tours...As of now - as previously mentioned - the day concludes with a walk back to the Hotel and five hours of free time that cannot be filled. A covered football stadium would be excellent, but what is the location of the stadium and is it appropriate for students to RELAX and have FUN?

[Freddy Schurr]

One Word: Philadelphia

[Tomasz Bania]

One Word: Philadelphia
Two Words: Detroit City.

Why??
If we can host the Superbowl an All-Star Game, an International Auto Show, and the NBA Playoffs (since we keep winning) in a span of 7 months (3 of those are within 3 months), we can definately host FIRST!

After-hours entertainment ??
(Campus Marcius), Detroit Science Center (location of Detroit Pep Rally, movie theaters, DIA (Detroit Institute of Arts),Belle Isle, Detroit Zoo, and something's always going on at Hart Plaza.

Team Social??
Campus Marcius and/or Hart Plaza

Hotels???
Three words (NOT A PROBLEM)

What Else Do You Need???

Tomasz Bania

[379Robocat]

Detroit doesn't seem to be that much of a problem to hold Nationals. But where would the pits be? Is there a location such as a football arena that could hold the competition but a surrounding area to hold the pits? I know when we went to the Detroit competition we went by the stadium and ended up eating at Greek town but there didn't seem to be a building right next to it for the pits. Or is that a big enough arena to hold the pits but I doubt that. That would be a perfect central location for us so we wouldn't have to fly or be on a bus that long like we did to Atlanta, Orlando or Houston. I would really like to see it go out west again. I liked it out west in Houston but for us as a team we really didn't enjoy it too much. We went to the beach on a Wednesday but it was closed because it was too cold. There wasn't much for us to do there. The hotel we stayed in wasn't that good and it didn't seem like the atmosphere for Nationals it seemed more for business. Just my thoughts.

[GaryVoshol]

Two Words: Detroit City.

Why??
If we can host the Superbowl an All-Star Game, an International Auto Show, and the NBA Playoffs (since we keep winning) in a span of 7 months (3 of those are within 3 months), we can definately host FIRST!

//snip//

Hotels???
Three words (NOT A PROBLEM)Except that they aren't within walking distance of Ford Field.

What Else Do You Need???Pits? The convention center (Cobo) is more than a mile away from the stadium. And there's no space at Ford. The Rolling Stones' set for Superbowl halftime had to be set up across the street at Comerica, outside, and pushed into the field. If they don't have staging room for stage parts, they certainly don't have room for pits.

As another poster stated, you need a full-size arena next to a convention center for FIRST to work. Indianapolis was another location suggested earlier in this thread.

[Tomasz Bania]

Detroit doesn't seem to be that much of a problem to hold Nationals. But where would the pits be? Is there a location such as a football arena that could hold the competition but a surrounding area to hold the pits? I know when we went to the Detroit competition we went by the stadium and ended up eating at Greek town but there didn't seem to be a building right next to it for the pits. Or is that a big enough arena to hold the pits but I doubt that. That would be a perfect central location for us so we wouldn't have to fly or be on a bus that long like we did to Atlanta, Orlando or Houston. I would really like to see it go out west again. I liked it out west in Houston but for us as a team we really didn't enjoy it too much. We went to the beach on a Wednesday but it was closed because it was too cold. There wasn't much for us to do there. The hotel we stayed in wasn't that good and it didn't seem like the atmosphere for Nationals it seemed more for business. Just my thoughts.
1.The buisness part would change.
2. Yes, Weather IS unpredictible, but the Sterling INN has an Indoor Waterpark and most of the hotels are pretty good at catering to unique types of clientel.
3. In the rare case (you could always put the pits in those HUGE walkways) that there wouldn't be enough space, you can just put the whole event in Cobo Center!
3.Detroit's VERSIONS (notice the S) of Centennial Park are Hart Plaza AND Campus Marcious.
4.We are a State with one of the greatest number of tems per capita.
5.Team's up here don't want to pay 10+ Grand to get down there (I agree, Californians have had a harder time, but our team could never afford to go all the way out there).

My personal opinion: I don't necessarily like walking through all the seats half-way across a Stadium in between all those seats as either people are sitting there or It's taped off (Experienced this in Palmetto). There is actually a lot to do in Detroit, but not many people realize it.

Tomasz Bania

[Tomasz Bania]

Except that they aren't within walking distance of Ford Field.

Pits? The convention center (Cobo) is more than a mile away from the stadium. And there's no space at Ford. The Rolling Stones' set for Superbowl halftime had to be set up across the street at Comerica, outside, and pushed into the field. If they don't have staging room for stage parts, they certainly don't have room for pits.

As another poster stated, you need a full-size arena next to a convention center for FIRST to work. Indianapolis was another location suggested earlier in this thread.
Linking to last reply:
Cobo is right next to Joe Louis Arena, Cobo is a HUGE place, probably enough to host the whole event, but if you do need the space, you can go to Joe Louis for some more space, which is linked by a walkway.

Off-topic: What exactly is next to the Georgia dome to hold all the "Extra" stuff?

Tomasz Bania

[dubious elise]

Off-topic: What exactly is next to the Georgia dome to hold all the "Extra" stuff?

Tomasz Bania
I don't know about being next-to the Dome, persay, but there is a lot of space beneath the dome. The floor level, beneath the seats, also opens up directly to the shipping areas between buildings B and C of the Georgia World Congress Center.

[Jeremiah Johnson]

I'd just assume to leave it up to FIRST to find the ideal location. I'm sure they are better at this than we are. I want it in the Quad Cities but that's not gonna happen... ever. Chicago or StL would be nice. I'm sure many major cities have ample facilities for this even. What's wrong with Atlanta? Besides the walking distance.

[379Robocat]

This seems to be one of these never ending threads. For now and until 2008 or 2009 we are stuck with Atlanta. People are going to have to accept this and have to deal with this until then. And Epcot will probably never happen again. If it would why would FIRST leave in the first place? Right now looking at all the possibilities Atlanta is a good choice. If it wasn't, would FIRST have resigned a contract? Also if these places are what everyone says they are don't you think FIRST has already looked at those possibilities? Until then this is what they have to deal with. Who knows maybe they know some place that's expanding and will be able to host a Championship in a few years. But every year FIRST keeps growing bigger and bigger and places to hold it are getting smaller and smaller. I'm not trying to bash this thread I'm not, but the Championships are going to be in Atlanta for 2-3 more years. Everyone is bashing Atlanta. This is a good spot, think about it. I know I haven't been in FIRST as long as some people have but in my 6 years I have seen 3 different places for the championship. Atlanta is convenient with the dome for the competition and the congress center for the pits and centennial park for the party. Hotels to accommodate 10,000+ students withing walking distance, restaurants within walking distance, MARTA cheap, reliable and convenient transportation. This is a low maintenance facility unlike EPCOT where the fields had to be constructed under tents, Einstein field and the main seating for the main field to be in bleachers outside. The pits were constructed in a tent outside so when it rained the pits flooded and you had to pick up all the power supplies off the ground. If it rained when you were watching Einstein, opening/closing ceremonies you were screwed unless you remembered your umbrella. All of this for EPCOT was constructed in their parking lot just to hold a championship. I admit the team parties were fun but FIRST grew too big with FLL and Vex to be accommodated at EPCOT. Now in Houston the astrodome has been demolished if I remember correctly so there are the pits. It's nice to think about it but there are a few more years to get through first. The past is gone and we need to look on the future. The past is nice to dwell on but that's why they call it the past. Now your ideas are great for places to hold it don't get me wrong but you have to consider the event location and surrounding area. Pits, Party, Food, Transportation, Lodging, Recreation, Facilities, Maintenance, all those things. To me I think the Championship will be in Atlanta until at least 2012. I'm sorry if I offended anyone that wasn't the intention of my post. My intention is to show that Atlanta is a great spot for the championships. It's convenient with the surrounding areas and everyone seems to have fun there. They are welcoming us with signs around town and in buildings, trying to accommodate our needs by adding easier transportation to newer different places like the aquarium so teams don't have to see the same boring things every year, year after year. FIRST=Championships in Atlanta for years to come. Keep up your thoughts and ideas but keep in mind what I had mentioned.

[Tomasz Bania]

This seems to be one of these never ending threads. For now and until 2008 or 2009 we are stuck with Atlanta. People are going to have to accept this and have to deal with this until then. And Epcot will probably never happen again. If it would why would FIRST leave in the first place? Right now looking at all the possibilities Atlanta is a good choice. If it wasn't, would FIRST have resigned a contract? Also if these places are what everyone says they are don't you think FIRST has already looked at those possibilities? Until then this is what they have to deal with. Who knows maybe they know some place that's expanding and will be able to host a Championship in a few years. But every year FIRST keeps growing bigger and bigger and places to hold it are getting smaller and smaller. I'm not trying to bash this thread I'm not, but the Championships are going to be in Atlanta for 2-3 more years. Everyone is bashing Atlanta. This is a good spot, think about it. I know I haven't been in FIRST as long as some people have but in my 6 years I have seen 3 different places for the championship. Atlanta is convenient with the dome for the competition and the congress center for the pits and centennial park for the party. Hotels to accommodate 10,000+ students withing walking distance, restaurants within walking distance, MARTA cheap, reliable and convenient transportation. This is a low maintenance facility unlike EPCOT where the fields had to be constructed under tents, Einstein field and the main seating for the main field to be in bleachers outside. The pits were constructed in a tent outside so when it rained the pits flooded and you had to pick up all the power supplies off the ground. If it rained when you were watching Einstein, opening/closing ceremonies you were screwed unless you remembered your umbrella. All of this for EPCOT was constructed in their parking lot just to hold a championship. I admit the team parties were fun but FIRST grew too big with FLL and Vex to be accommodated at EPCOT. Now in Houston the astrodome has been demolished if I remember correctly so there are the pits. It's nice to think about it but there are a few more years to get through first. The past is gone and we need to look on the future. The past is nice to dwell on but that's why they call it the past. Now your ideas are great for places to hold it don't get me wrong but you have to consider the event location and surrounding area. Pits, Party, Food, Transportation, Lodging, Recreation, Facilities, Maintenance, all those things. To me I think the Championship will be in Atlanta until at least 2012. I'm sorry if I offended anyone that wasn't the intention of my post. My intention is to show that Atlanta is a great spot for the championships. It's convenient with the surrounding areas and everyone seems to have fun there. They are welcoming us with signs around town and in buildings, trying to accommodate our needs by adding easier transportation to newer different places like the aquarium so teams don't have to see the same boring things every year, year after year. FIRST=Championships in Atlanta for years to come. Keep up your thoughts and ideas but keep in mind what I had mentioned.

You're right, but by about 2010 cities like Detroit will have no problems hosting it (for example: Cobo Expansion) but till we know for sure, let's just wait and see.

[preussrobotics]

I second the vote for somewhere in the west. Not only would the western teams receive a welcome reprieve from the high cost of traveling east, but it would help in recruitment effots out here!


I would hope for somewhere more west. Every year except Houston in 2003 the western teams always have more distance to travel (and perhaps more $ to pay).

[OZ_341]

I really like Atlanta as an alternative until........ WE CAN GO BACK TO DISNEY!!!! :D

One of my favorite parts was when we would all assemble outdoors on a beautiful, clear Saturday morning on the Einstein field. We would hear eloquent speeches about FIRST from such wonderful speakers as Sally Ride. Teams would throw prize after prize into the stands. Disney just put everyone in a great mood. Everyone greeted each other. You felt that you were somewhere special and so did your kids. Anyone that has been there knows that the disadvantages are just overwhelmed by the pure MAGIC of Disney!!

Were the tents crowded and the finals out in the blazing sun? Absolutely.
But we know what the problems are and can therefore fix them.

I would sacrifice almost anything for a return to Disney.

[David Brinza]

I second the vote for somewhere in the west. Not only would the western teams receive a welcome reprieve from the high cost of traveling east, but it would help in recruitment effots out here!Our "Bluebearded" friend from the Bionic Bulldogs (Team 60) mentioned to me that Phoenix is building a new indoor football stadium for the Arizona Cardinals. It's amazing that Los Angeles doesn't have a facility that could accommodate the FIRST Championships, but it's true. Until I had heard about the new Cardinals Stadium, I was advocating St. Louis as a potential future site.

[KTorak]

I have to say I don't know if I, or my team will be willing spend the money to go to Altanta again unless we win a regional/award to qualify. It just isn't that fun of a place to go for 4 years in a row and I think a break would be nice. I don't know how many other people feel the same way, but I'm sure some do.

[Sgraff_SRHS06]

I have to say I don't know if I, or my team will be willing spend the money to go to Altanta again unless we win a regional/award to qualify. It just isn't that fun of a place to go for 4 years in a row and I think a break would be nice. I don't know how many other people feel the same way, but I'm sure some do.

Be lucky that you guys have the money. I know that there are many teams that don't, and others that fold soon after they go to Atlanta (namely 53) because it can be such a financial problem. (We had the money this year, but we had to cover for 888, 1629, and others at the Historic Electronics Museum, and Das Goat (165) has not been willing to do it yet.) To make it easier, someone should subsidize the championship and/or make it 100% free for regional winners, rookie inspiration, rookie all-star, chairman's winners, and engineering inspiration winners to go.

[379Robocat]

I have to say I don't know if I, or my team will be willing spend the money to go to Altanta again unless we win a regional/award to qualify. It just isn't that fun of a place to go for 4 years in a row and I think a break would be nice. I don't know how many other people feel the same way, but I'm sure some do.

That's how our team feels. Our last trip of the season was to go to the Philly regional. It was a close place that we wouldn't need to fly and we spent as much money to go there as we would have for Nationals. But in Detroit we won the Engineering Inspiration award and would have liked to go to Atlanta because we thought we might have a shot. We tried to cancel Philly for Atlanta but we were unable to go there financially. Then one day about two weeks before Atlanta we got a call from our state congressman that said he would find the money somewhere to send our team to Atlanta since we were doing such a fine job this year. I think that the only way we will go back is if we win a regional, a regional chairmans award or something like that.

[KTorak]

That's how our team feels. Our last trip of the season was to go to the Philly regional. It was a close place that we wouldn't need to fly and we spent as much money to go there as we would have for Nationals. But in Detroit we won the Engineering Inspiration award and would have liked to go to Atlanta because we thought we might have a shot. We tried to cancel Philly for Atlanta but we were unable to go there financially. Then one day about two weeks before Atlanta we got a call from our state congressman that said he would find the money somewhere to send our team to Atlanta since we were doing such a fine job this year. I think that the only way we will go back is if we win a regional, a regional chairmans award or something like that.

We're thinking about going to the Chicago regional (overnight, 4 hour drive) instead of Atlanta unless we qualify. A change of pace would be nice.

[Donut]

Our "Bluebearded" friend from the Bionic Bulldogs (Team 60) mentioned to me that Phoenix is building a new indoor football stadium for the Arizona Cardinals. It's amazing that Los Angeles doesn't have a facility that could accommodate the FIRST Championships, but it's true. Until I had heard about the new Cardinals Stadium, I was advocating St. Louis as a potential future site.

That is correct, and it will be hosting football games this year, meaning it will be totally finished before September of this year. We've always thought it would be an actual possibility since the Cardinal's stadium could hold the fields like Atlanta's stadium does now, and the Glendale Arena (where the Phoenix Coyotes play, literally 2 minutes on foot from the Cardinals stadium since they share the same parking lot) could hold the pits. Most hotels are still at least 15 minutes away right now, but that will change quickly since they will be building new ones to accomidate the Superbowl in 2008 (there's lots of open space around the arena with buildings already going up for this). The only current problem would be how to get robots across the parking lot when it is potentially 100 degrees, but a covered walkway could probably do the trick since it isn't very far. And though it may be close to 100 degrees (more likely 90), you can almost certainly count on it being sunny.

Anway, Atlanta is fine right now. I actually thought everything was extremely close and convenient when our team went there in 2004 (so glad we didn't have to buy transportation there). I just hope it will move somewhere closer to the West sometime, everyone here could really use a break from the expensive Nationals trips.

[StephLee]

Be lucky that you guys have the money. I know that there are many teams that don't, and others that fold soon after they go to Atlanta (namely 53) because it can be such a financial problem. (We had the money this year, but we had to cover for 888, 1629, and others at the Historic Electronics Museum, and Das Goat (165) has not been willing to do it yet.) To make it easier, someone should subsidize the championship and/or make it 100% free for regional winners, rookie inspiration, rookie all-star, chairman's winners, and engineering inspiration winners to go.

What's this about us? I'm a bit confused here...what exactly are you talking about?

[nparikh]

Be lucky that you guys have the money. I know that there are many teams that don't, and others that fold soon after they go to Atlanta (namely 53) because it can be such a financial problem. (We had the money this year, but we had to cover for 888, 1629, and others at the Historic Electronics Museum, and Das Goat (165) has not been willing to do it yet.) To make it easier, someone should subsidize the championship and/or make it 100% free for regional winners, rookie inspiration, rookie all-star, chairman's winners, and engineering inspiration winners to go.

And where would FIRST get the money to do that. Based on rough calculations, putting the price of Nationals at 6k/team, and 7 awards/regional x 33 regionals, that's an estimated cost of..$1,386,000.

Just doesn't seem practical to me. Maybe have like "scholarship" type awards or grants to subsidze costs for some teams..but for all of them..doesn't make sense to me. :rolleyes:

[David Brinza]

To make it easier, someone should subsidize the championship and/or make it 100% free for regional winners, rookie inspiration, rookie all-star, chairman's winners, and engineering inspiration winners to go.At the SoCal Regional this year, The Ahmanson Foundation (http://www.theahmansonfoundation.org/index.html) gave a grant to teams that qualified for the Championship at the regional to cover the entry fee ($5K). It's true that transportation, lodging and food are additional costs that a team must bear to participate, but getting the entry fee covered is a great motivator for teams to raise those additional funds. It would be great if other philanthropic organizations would "adopt" other regionals. It is equally important that teams that receive this type of support recognize the contribution by displaying the organization's name prominently on their robot, team shirts, and that the field announce/MC identifies the contribution during team introductions.

[BobC]

I think it should be held in a very large ship in international waters to make it a truly international event. :D

Back to the real topic, I think it should be held in a city where there has been an Olympic event held there because it is already suited for a large number of people. For example, Salt Lake City or L.A.

How about Lake Placid New York, they have had two Olympic events. :)

[BobC]

NYC wouldn't be a bad place just a few issues

Traffic IS a big issue in the city
There is not a big enough arena to hold the Nationals let alone parking for it or storage of equipment
NYC lacks Entertainment for the youngins but has many tourist attractions =)


Some positive things though

If the new Jets stadium gets built on the west side (which also is a Super bowl candidate city as well as the 2012 olympics) maybe FIRST will put a bid in holding it in NYC
There are 3 area airports within an hour to the west side stadium - LaGuardia, John F Kennedy and Newark Liberty Airports
If the west side stadium gets built up parking should be resolved as well as transportation - MTA Going Your Way =)
If The NY Yankees build their enclosed stadium you have a slim shot of getting at least one year of nationals there


Sorry the Jets and the New York Football GIANTS are building a new Stadium at the Meadowlands. DOME MAYBE??

[sirjam]

Everyone keeps mentioning that the teams in the west have such a longer distance to travel than teams in other parts of the US. They all say that somewhere in the middle of the U.S. would be the best so that is is equally available to all the teams. But distance isn't the issue. Somewhere like Atlanta is a perfect place for the competition because Atlanta has such a major airport. Airfare is determined by the number of times a flight goes to a specific city. If the competition was held in the middle of the U.S. airfare would actually be higher for teams everywhere. So if the westerners really want everyone to pay less, somewhere like Las Vegas would be the perfect venue. There are so many flights in and out of the airport there that flights would be cheap and obviously the city can hold the number of people who would be attending.

[987HighRoller]

Everyone keeps mentioning that the teams in the west have such a longer distance to travel than teams in other parts of the US. They all say that somewhere in the middle of the U.S. would be the best so that is is equally available to all the teams. But distance isn't the issue. Somewhere like Atlanta is a perfect place for the competition because Atlanta has such a major airport. Airfare is determined by the number of times a flight goes to a specific city. If the competition was held in the middle of the U.S. airfare would actually be higher for teams everywhere. So if the westerners really want everyone to pay less, somewhere like Las Vegas would be the perfect venue. There are so many flights in and out of the airport there that flights would be cheap and obviously the city can hold the number of people who would be attending.

That would be awsome!

[Cory]

So if the westerners really want everyone to pay less, somewhere like Las Vegas would be the perfect venue. There are so many flights in and out of the airport there that flights would be cheap and obviously the city can hold the number of people who would be attending.

Doing a simple search in about 5 minutes, unless you're flying out of CA, and a couple other western states, it's far more expensive to fly to Las Vegas than it is to Atlanta.

It's about $150 cheaper for flights from CA to Las Vegas than to Atlanta, but there are far more people who would be paying more to get to Las Vegas than they would to get to Atlanta, which ends up being a net negative, even if it is a positive for some west coast teams.

Atlanta is a major hub--far more so than Las Vegas. I believe Atlanta is the busiest airport in the world. As far as flights and airfare go, Atlanta, LA, Chicago, and NYC are most likely going to be the cheapest, as they're the largest hubs.

[Donut]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World%27s_busiest_airports_by_passenger_traffic

List of the world's 30 busiest airports (by passenger traffic).

Las Vegas does make it onto the list (#9), but serves a little over half the traffic that Atlanta does (#1 with a comfortable 9,000 passenger lead). It appears Vegas is barely bigger than Denver or Phoenix.

With Chicago, LA, and Dallas servicing so many flights, they may be options if a close venue could be found.

[Cory]

Las Vegas does make it onto the list (#9), but serves a little over half the traffic that Atlanta does (#1 with a comfortable 9,000 passenger lead).

That's actually 9 million people. :)

[Donut]

Whoops. I read that as thousands and was assuming it was talking about passengers per day :rolleyes:

[JVGazeley]

I could only imagine how much money it would cost to get a hotel room.

NYC? Well we usually stay at the Big Apple Hostel on W45 for the NYC Regional. Basic but quite cheap and well placed; half a block from Times Square. This year we stayed for a week, flew into JFK from London Heathrow with British Airways. I don't know exact costs off hand though.

I'm sure that Cunard would love any attempts to use the QE2 if you can afford it; I doubt it's big enough to hold a decent size regional though (never mind the championships) without causing enough damage to need a small fortune to pay for the repairs. Before you say anything, I won't start on the list of things we've broken or damaged in my 2 years with 759.

As for Detroit? It held the Super Bowl surely, so why not? If it's good enough for the NFL and AFL, would it not be good enough for FIRST? (I've never even been there by the way, but I know its reputation)

[GaryVoshol]

As for Detroit? It held the Super Bowl surely, so why not? If it's good enough for the NFL and AFL, would it not be good enough for FIRST? (I've never even been there by the way, but I know its reputation)Detroit's convention center is about 2 miles from the covered stadium (Ford Field). The sets for the halftime show at the Super Bowl had to be pushed in from across the street at Comerica Park (baseball), outside. Neither is a good choice for the pits.

[dangerousdave]

Some people have begun discussing this location issue in other threads. I thought I would bring this thread to the top of the list for the folks that are not aware that they can discuss it here.
Dave

[Tottanka]

it should be in Tel Aviv, Israel. :) .

[Nin_estarSaerah]

well, being from a southern state, i love it being in atlanta, it is close enough to go to, but far enough to be far away. i think it ought to be in a more central location, a little farther north or west. somewhere in tennesee would be great.

[Scott Carpman]

I say that if FIRST wants a centralized location near a major city, then the choices have to meet the following requirements: domed stadium, large international airport, and midwestern city. The cities that meet these requirements are Minneapolis, St. Louis and Houston. Dallas will meet the domed stadium requirement when the new Cowboys stadium is completed. St. Louis would be the best choice out of the three because they are also central when it comes to north-south access.

[David Brinza]

Some people have begun discussing this location issue in other threads. I thought I would bring this thread to the top of the list for the folks that are not aware that they can discuss it here.
DaveHopefully, people will take some time to skim through this very long thread before posting. Yeah, reading through >300 posts is tedious, but... when the thread was alive last year I found that I would quote some of the earlier posts because the content was exactly what the much later post was querying. I know we're all anxious to get our opinions out there, but having to repeat the same information again and again is a bit annoying.:rolleyes:

[Vogel648]

I hate all the talk about flying, as much as I'd like to fly down, the reality for our team is we're going to end up taking a super long bus drive down to Atlanta. For those of us who do not have the monetary resources to fly, something in the middle of the country would be good.

[Nawaid Ladak]

Atlanta is fine, if they need more teams just move them next door to the Phillips Arena, thats where FVC and FLL can go, therefore, you can have six divisions at the georgia Dome and move o the Phillips arena for the championship event seating like 18,000 FIRSTers or something close to that, Atlanta is the only legit city i can think of near the east coast that has a good transit system and good weather, and on top of that it's easy to get to.

[Protronie]

Greensboro, NC... Greensboro Coliseum Complex, right off of I-40/85,
great venue , great Bar B Que right across the street.
Lots of motel rooms less than 1/2 mile. Easy to get in and out of.
Well stocked electronics store right across the street too :cool:

Plus, its four blocks from my house :D
And they need more events to keep it making a profit... city owned and operated so tax payers pick up the slack. :(

But all kidding aside.... Greensboro or any another place in Carolina i.e. Charlotte or Winston-Salem would be great. Right in the middle of the east cost along the major north/south interstate (85/95) with the major east/west interstate (I-40/421). Greensboro been called the Gateway city due to the fact that it has long been the transportation hub for the east coast with major rail service, air service and of course 8 major interstate highways going thru it.
We have a great downtown night life with open air concerts during the warmer weather seasons. A brand new AA ball park down town home of the Grasshoppers.

I'm sure our 5 great colleges and the high tech companies here would welcome FIRST with open arms (if not wallets too).

Did I mention its only 4 blocks from my house :D

[CJV648]

In an ideal world it would be in a different region each year like the super bowl or final four. This would help get the word about FIRST out around the country as well as helping to equalize travel costs among the teams. I understand that this would likely cause additional difficulties in finding venues and make organization of the event even harder, so I doubt that it is about to happen. Barring changing annual locations I think alternating between Nashville (or Atlanta) and Las Vegas (or Salt Lake City) would help equalize travel costs without increasing organizational overhead too much.

Brazil or New Orleans would be the funnest locations if we could make the competition in time for Mardi Gras.:)

[!DOM!]

I think it should be held in a very large ship in international waters to make it a truly international event. :D

Back to the real topic, I think it should be held in a city where there has been an Olympic event held there because it is already suited for a large number of people. For example, Salt Lake City or L.A.

Like Atlanta. It is fun there. But maybe more north east (not cause im more north) but its closer to FIRST Headquaters.

[cire]

I just had a crazy idea, we should have robotics competition domes! Just like football has football fields, basketball has basketball arena's and so on. Wouldnt that be sweet?

[Nawaid Ladak]

What if FIRST started a project to build a arena type stadium somewhere with the city paying part, sports teams paying anouther part and FIRST and other small orginizations paying the last part of it.

i think that would be an idea that can be tossed around

[Madison]

As a reminder, please avoid engaging in IM-style conversations via the forums. A conversation that alternates rapidly between two or three people is probably best handled via private messages or over AIM.

Thanks.

[!DOM!]

Is it wrong to answer his questions?????????:mad:

I dont have a direct chat.:mad:

[Madison]

Is it wrong to answer his questions?????????:mad:

I dont have a direct chat.:mad:

Y'all can take the time to assemble your questions into a single post and answer them in another well-considered, single post. Going back and forth creates a lot for others to read and contains comparably little content (e.g., 'oh'.)

You also have access to ChiefDelphi's own Private Messaging feature. At the top right of your screen, you'll find a link to your inbox. By clicking on a user's name within the forums, a drop down menu appears that allows you to send that user a message.

[Nawaid Ladak]

Take a city with a expiring arena for example, im just going to say Chicago or something like that.

The city pays one part of it

You build an arena/Convention center type place so that the sports team (football basketball, colleges, hockey baseball etc) pay a part of it (I KNOW MY SPORTS, the alamodome in San Antonio can fit both a basketball court and a football stadium.)

and then you take money from private donors and orginizations like FIRST and etc. .

thats what im talking about

iit would cost somewhere in the neighborhood of $500 Million BUT lets say there is a nice enough city that pays $150 million or even $200 Million (Orlando is building a new $350 million dollar arena and the city is paying $150 Million and the county is paying another $75 Million). You combine state, federal and county grants to this arena and your already half the way there.

The Orlando magic made a bid of about $125 million for this new arena, if you do the same lets say for a all purpose stadium, then your good with it

FIRST would probably have to pitch over $10-$15 Million in my opinion to get the championship there as long as it likes.

now THATS what i was talking about

P.S. Let us design the arena, after all we are going to become the engineers of tomorrow right. so why not start on the arena of tomorrow with us?

[Donut]

FIRST having it's own arena would be nice, but I don't know how well that will work. Remember that whatever arena they would construct, it most likely needs to be designed to handle what FIRST will look like 5 years from now (since a stadium/convention center duo will undoubtedly take close to this long, if not longer). FIRST has only been around for a little over 15 years, and with it growing at the exponential rate it is, that could be a hard number to predict (who knows? Maybe they'll even be a 4th competition in addition to FVC, FLL, and FRC by then).

If it's feasible I think it would be cool for FIRST to do a rotating Championship between 2 or 3 (or 4 even) cities (yes, I know it was mentioned earlier, but it's a very good idea). As long as it was between 4 or less cities, and you spaced them fairly evenly across the country (1 West Coast, 1 East Coast, 1 Southern, and 1 Northern, or some other combo), you end up giving almost every team in the country a chance to have easy access (aka within a 10 hour bus ride) to the Championship sometime during a student's 4 year high school attendance. If they ever got adventerous FIRST could even have one Championship in Canada :)

[Cactus_Robotics]

I know you said dont put your city but.... Glendale, Az is hosting the superbowl this year and theres a great shopping venue and hotels nearby. another great place would be Anahiem Convention/Disneyland

[T3_1565]

I wouldn't mind it in Canada. Canada produces a lot of good robots given the fact we only have two regionals, and I think it should be held up here at least once. Say in the ACC or something

[BRosser314]

I wouldn't mind it in Canada. Canada produces a lot of good robots given the fact we only have two regionals, and I think it should be held up here at least once. Say in the ACC or something

As much as Canada sounds cool, I'm nto sure if it would be in the best interest of FIRST, since with recent laws saying your going to need a passport to fly in, I'm not sure if teams would be able to go thru with that, YES i know that most kids now have passports, but i always used to remember the hassle it was to just travel from Michigan to Ontario for a regional, and this would be magnified bya bout 5 times amount of people. What does everyone think about this?

[Nawaid Ladak]

don't forget about what happened last year about that one kid from New York, it was on the CBS Evening News

[KTorak]

As much as Canada sounds cool, I'm nto sure if it would be in the best interest of FIRST, since with recent laws saying your going to need a passport to fly in, I'm not sure if teams would be able to go thru with that, YES i know that most kids now have passports, but i always used to remember the hassle it was to just travel from Michigan to Ontario for a regional, and this would be magnified bya bout 5 times amount of people. What does everyone think about this?

The gov't is supposed to be passing a law where if you are traveling with a team or some sort of organization, the only thing you need to pass to Canada is a birth certificate.

[T3_1565]

yeah I heard about that team thing as well. And I was thinking if we got one in Canada, Canada will become more involved and I wouldn't be surprised to see more regionals popping up around say BC and Alberta. It would be a nice way to promote FIRST in Canada.

[OZ_341]

I know that I have already responded in post #20 but I gave no reasoning.

Anyone that has been to Disney for the Championship will know what I mean!
For all its faults it was the most awesome experience. Please don't take this as a disrespect of Atlanta or Houston. We have had a great time in both cities and both cities have provided nothing but fond memories for our team.

Top reasons to go back to Disney:

* SECURITY! As long as you keep track of your students general movements and they stay on the Disney Campus you have a 99.9 % chance that they are safe moving around on their own. As a teacher this was a pleasure. You will always worry about your kids, but this went a long way towards easing your mind.

* EXPERIENCE! Disney is in the business of handling extremely large groups of enthusiastic kids. They know what they are doing and already have an environment setup for this.

*PUBLICITY! I feel that the media exposure for FIRST and the access to visiting celebrities was so much higher when we were at Disney. There were always famous people walking through the pits, talking to the kids.
Thousands of kids in team shirts walked around Disney for 4 days encouraging the general public to visit the competition and they did visit. People that had no affiliation with FIRST would bring their families to watch.

* MAGIC! When your team is at Disney for the Championship, you feel SPECIAL, in a way that no conventional city environment can duplicate. Don't get me wrong I am a city person and I love cities. I just feel that in the end there is no other place on Earth that can match this feeling of reward after a long hard season. I can remember being in the Einstein stadium, outdoors on a beautiful Florida morning, listening to inspirational speeches,watching the monorail pass the stadium and seeing how pumped up the kids were by the environment. I can remember thinking "Perfection"!!

There has been a great deal of feedback both here and other places that basically says "I should forget this dream". People keep telling me "Disney is Dead", "Let it Go". I can't! I feel like we have all been away from our home for the last five years. We need to go home to Disney!!

With all of the accumulated brain power of FIRST and its Teams we can find a way to make the Disney environment work for everyone. We can do it. For every obstacle presented, there are many solutions.

Sorry for such a long post!

Good luck to everyone going to the Atlanta Championships. It will be a blast!

[Sgraff_SRHS06]

My vote goes for Washington DC/College Park, MD in future years:

The subliminal reason is that it's just a metro ride away from where I am.

The Verizon Center can seat about 35,000 people and is within (again) a metro ride from Georgetown, the various museums, Congress, the White House, and a whole bunch of entertainment options.

It fits into the Dean's Homework and just a drive/walk for your Reps/Senators.

College Park fits the bill of doing the Championship at a world-leading engineering university. You have the Comcast Center for the field(s) again I'm not sure if it's big enough. TerpZone at Stamp Student Union. Plus, whenever the new mall and hotels are built at University View (near East Campus) and crime lower than it is now (CP is experiencing the same crime problems affecting all of PG County, and little-tolerance alcohol policies do not necessarily stop it because a couple of crimes I know about occurred in broad daylight at times most students that do drink do not drink.). Who knows?

[Protronie]

In an ideal world it would be in a different region each year like the super bowl or final four. This would help get the word about FIRST out around the country as well as helping to equalize travel costs among the teams. )

I really like this idea... the championship event should be made available to all parts of the country without causing a financial burden at least once every high schoolers time in FIRST.

It sad when a team earns a spot at the championship but either can not attend or can only afford to bring a small group with them. Not to mention all their supporters. :cool:

Once again... Greensboro,NC would make an ideal east coast location... right in the middle between Florida and New York. :D

[technoL]

I'm hoping for a move to the Midwest sometime in the next 2 years before I graduate. Atlanta is a cool city, and works for FIRST now, but I feel that there are other cities that are just as great, or may have more to offer than Atlanta, such as St. Louis, Minneapolis, or Indianapolis.

Any move at the moment would be great for the growth of FIRST. There isn't a better way to express the true meaning and impact of FIRST than seeing the best of the best gathered at one place --The International Championships. After being in Atlanta for 3 years, the local businesses and school systems have had quite some time to pickup on FIRST...it's time to spread the message somewhere else.

I'm sure that teams that go to the Championships year after year agree that the Atlanta attractions have been exhausted quickly. In 3 years, most teams have already gone to the GA Aquarium, visited the World of Coke, the Underground, taken a CNN or GA Tech tour, been to a Braves game, and gone to most of the restaurants nearby. I have only been once, and now there really isn't anything besides the competition that I'm looking forward to.

Going back to logistics, it has been stated many times in this thread that a Midwest location would even out the traveling costs for teams. It may appear ironic that I am advocating for a regional farther away, when Atlanta is only a 1.5 hour flight away, but I see it as a win-win situation. Everyone (except Midwest teams) pays the same price to get there, and we all get to travel to a new place. Of course I could say that moving to South Florida would be perfect (Miami/Ft. Lauderdale comes to mind with tons of hotels, tourist attractions, great weather, and the beach), but there are a few flaws and that would be pushing it.:D

*I am slightly biased on the ATL situation. I once lived in a surrounding city, and I visit there almost every year now, so there is nothing that special about the city anymore, to me at least.

-No L

[rocker2475]

im realy hoping that it stays in atlanta. its in an ideal spot. i doubt that it will be moved to any costal areas because it'll cause to much contraversy. it needs to at least stay twards the middle of the country

[Jon Jack]

im realy hoping that it stays in atlanta. its in an ideal spot. i doubt that it will be moved to any costal areas because it'll cause to much contraversy. it needs to at least stay twards the middle of the country

While Atlanta isn't right on the east coast, it's not really the middle of the country. There are better locations that would make it easier for those teams in the western part of the country to attend.

[pufame]

There are better locations that would make it easier for those teams in the western part of the country to attend.

While other cities may be better for west coast teams I don't see nationals going to far west in the near future... I mean just look at a population distribution diagram. It's more or less east coast and west coast centered. Then look at a diagram of FIRST team in the US, then it becomes even more polarized to the coasts. Given, there are major cities "midway" between the coasts, I don't think any make sense to put an event like nationals there because logistically more teams would have to fly in. I know that with nationals in Atlanta a lot of teams up the east coast drive down (we live in the northernmost part of PA and drove down) and unfortunately most teams from the west coast have to fly (I'm not sure if any drove or not). With nationals in the middle of the country I believe it would increase the number of teams that would need to fly... I could be wrong though. And also I think that having CNN in Atlanta is a huge plus (they arranged a satellite feed to a local news station).

[texasranger]

My vote goes in for Disneyworld (why isn't this a poll?), even though I live all the way on the other coast in California. The reason for this is because they got great facilities, it's safe, and it's a place where people come from all around the world. Last time I've been to Disneyworld was in Janurary of this year (2007) to see my brother play with the u17 us national team (for soccer) at the wide world of sports. When I was there, I went to the animal and magic kingdom, and it was packed! There were people from all over the world, that clogged the lines everywhere. The whole park was crowded. With so many people, a Robotics Championship would draw some attention to people from other countries. If FIRST held the championships in DisneyWorld for at least 4 years, there would definitely be more countries in Europe and Asia competing. To most of you who have made it to the championships, it would get more difficult, and challenges would get harder and fun.

[rfolea]

So why not have TWO championships? (Has this been suggested? I didn't reead all 330 emails...)

One on the East Coast and one on the west coast?

Run 'em on the same weekend. Have each piped into the other so we can watch both live.

This keeps the costs down for the teams that can't travel, and still allows teams that want to travel an opportunity to go to the other coast.

It allows us to DOUBLE our current capacity while keeping all the current rules and logistics unchanged (ie: it's easy).

AND we end up with TWO sets of Champions - nothing wrong with that.

They could meet at IRI in the summer for bragging rights ...

I realize there is cost involved in doing two, but if you are going to Double or triple the size of the program, as dean suggests, you're gonna have to do something anyway ... and we already run 5 to 6 regionals on all the other weekends - so this should be a snap.

Of Course, if we have to do it SOMEWHERE, Atlanta works for me - 45 minute drive ... <grin>

[SgtMillhouse648]

AND we end up with TWO sets of Champions - nothing wrong with that.


Then they theoretically would not be the champions. It kinda turns itself into just another regional. Now, if you had the two competitions to narrow down the crowd for a championship, only allow the teams that placed a in a certain spot in the other two to participate, and have the big championship somewhere else in a more central location between the two, say Iowa or something like that, that would work a lot better. In my opinion, Atlanta is too big of a competition, creating the kind of a setup would limit the size of the championship, bring out the best of the best, and be much more exciting than atlanta.

[Jeremiah Johnson]

My vote goes in for Disneyworld (why isn't this a poll?), even though I live all the way on the other coast in California. The reason for this is because they got great facilities, it's safe, and it's a place where people come from all around the world. Last time I've been to Disneyworld was in Janurary of this year (2007) to see my brother play with the u17 us national team (for soccer) at the wide world of sports. When I was there, I went to the animal and magic kingdom, and it was packed! There were people from all over the world, that clogged the lines everywhere. The whole park was crowded. With so many people, a Robotics Championship would draw some attention to people from other countries. If FIRST held the championships in DisneyWorld for at least 4 years, there would definitely be more countries in Europe and Asia competing. To most of you who have made it to the championships, it would get more difficult, and challenges would get harder and fun.

The Championship was at Disney through 2002. FIRST grew too large and they didn't ask us to come back, as I understand it.

[Pavan Dave]

So why not have TWO championships? (Has this been suggested? I didn't reead all 330 emails...)

One on the East Coast and one on the west coast?

Run 'em on the same weekend. Have each piped into the other so we can watch both live.

This keeps the costs down for the teams that can't travel, and still allows teams that want to travel an opportunity to go to the other coast.


Something similar happens with EARLY (Engineering and Robotics Learned Young) Competition that my team hosts. The American champions play against the South African champions by recording a match after the competition is over.

The thing is, FRC is not like that. There is a defense element in the recent FRC games. IF that defense element went away it would be possible but that would take some of the intensity and fun out of the games.

One championship is fine. If they want, they can relocate to a city where there are the most teams within a 50 mile radius so teams can drive to and from competition and save money, but then it will be in the northeast most likely around Michigan/Indiana [1] or somewhere in the North. Logically this would save the more teams money. What is the purpose of having two just because there are only 1/3-1/4 teams on the west coast and the other portion is all on the east? Many people think of their own teams but what they need to realize is that there are hundreds of teams at the Championships. But IF we wanted to do it the way I mentioned above, you might want to make it easier for ONLY the participating teams, so picking an area where most of the participating championships teams are located within a 50-100 mile radius is the most efficient way, BUT I don't think you can book huge arenas and complexes with two weeks notice.

[1] Post Reference - http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/showpost.php?p=637557&postcount=349

[David Kelly]

I've said it before and I am saying it again: The Championships will move to Indianapolis.

[Alex.Norton]

I'm not sure it really matters a huge amount where FIRST puts the championship as long as its not some where completely out of the blue. I wouldn't be surprised if they put it in LA or Atlanta or Detroit or Cleavland, I would be blow away however, if they put it in say Denver. I would be pleased if they did (close) but I just don't think they would.

Personaly I hope that they put it where the best facilities are. I have been to Atlanta but I haven't gone to any other place for the championship so I don't know if Atlanta is the best. I can't really say who has the best place because I haven't done the research. I loved Atlanta but I might have done a little more walking than I would have liked.

I don't know where the championship would be but I hope it is somewhere other than Atlanta. I've been there and it would be cool to get to go somewhere else.

[Akash Rastogi]

I'd like to see Indianapolis hold the Championship, or perhaps have FIRST go back to hosting them in Orlando for a year or two.

[Jeremiah Johnson]

I agree with David Kelly, it'll innevitably end up (I hope) somewhere in the Midwest. Indy is very close to a lot of teams, not to mention only 5 hour drive for me. I don't see the Championship ever going too much further towards a coast than what Atlanta is right now... It just doesn't make any sense. St. Louis would be a very good place to put the Championship, also.

[Pavan Dave]

I agree with David Kelly, it'll innevitably end up (I hope) somewhere in the Midwest. Indy is very close to a lot of teams, not to mention only 5 hour drive for me. I don't see the Championship ever going too much further towards a coast than what Atlanta is right now... It just doesn't make any sense. St. Louis would be a very good place to put the Championship, also.

There are more teams in the Indy area than Michigan area?!?!?

[A_Reed]

The Championships move out of Orlando right before my freshman year because FIRST was getting to big for the Facilities that Disney World provided. Then they moved the championships to Houston for a year, it was fun but the walk from stands to ground floor of the Astrodome was much longer than I think anyone liked, oh and the robots had to take the same journey up and down the Switchbacks leading in and out of the building, the two day team social inside Houston Six Flags Astroworld was fun too. But ever since it has been in Atlanta, Its a nice location and the walk is not that bad if you know the side entrances and stuff.

The idea of the Championships being somewhere else would be interesting, the centralization would probably not be very efficient for either side of the nation(as previously stated), but what if they had two sites for nationals like Atalanta for East coast and Vegas for the West coast and you switch venues back and forth every year to balance out the costs

[Jeremiah Johnson]

There are more teams in the Indy area than Michigan area?!?!?

No, but they are mostly all within a drives distance or so. There's no Michigan area that I know of that's big enough to hold the number of teams. Also, non-Michigan teams (exlcuding Canadians) would mostly have to fly in, because getting around the Great Lakes by bus/car is not very efficient.

[Pavan Dave]

Vegas for the West coastI have a feeling that some schools would not like that idea and it might even prevent certain teams from even going.

[edthegeek]

How about in San Jose? The capital of the Silicon Valley? San Jose has many large hotels in the downtown of it, and has a rather large convention center very conveniently placed. Not to mention that I would not mind having nats be biking distance from my house...

[GaryVoshol]

Let's review the requirements again (this seems to come up every year):

(1) A covered full-size stadium for the fields.
(2) An adjacent convention center for the pits and other parts of the event.
(3) Hotels within reasonable distance/access.

There's not too many cities in the country that have all three.

Disney met (3) wonderfully, but fails miserably on (1) and (2) especially since the event has gotten so big.

Houston had (1) and sorta (2) and (3) - maybe with the new convention center planned to replace the Astrodome (2) would work better.

Detroit has (1) but not (2) at all, and hardly (3) because most of the hotels aren't near Ford Field.

Despite just being at IRI, I wasn't downtown. It is my understanding that the new development will have both (1) and (2), and someone else will have to address (3).

What other cities with covered stadiums are there to consider? Not Vegas. Minneapolis? (but who wants to go there in April - weather in Indy would be iffy enough)

[A_Reed]

What other cities with covered stadiums are there to consider? Not Vegas. Minneapolis? (but who wants to go there in April - weather in Indy would be iffy enough)

Good Point...Start Factoring Weather into Championship locations.

[AdamHeard]

One thing we know for sure; FIRST won't screw this up.

Also, although atlanta isn't the most convienent for most (I know, I'm from california), it's a great location.

[Nica F.]

One thing we know for sure; FIRST won't screw this up.

Also, although Atlanta isn't the most convenient for most (I know, I'm from California), it's a great location.

Even if it's not "convenient" for those like us on the west coast, there's not a place that is next to everybody.

Atlanta is great for because there's a lot to do, the venue can fit all of us FIRSTers, and a lot of hotels in the area.

Personally, I'd like to have it at a new location for something new, but if it's stays in Atlanta, I won't complain.

[Pavan Dave]

Let's review the requirements again (this seems to come up every year):

(1) A covered full-size stadium for the fields.
(2) An adjacent convention center for the pits and other parts of the event.
(3) Hotels within reasonable distance/access.

There's not too many cities in the country that have all three.

Disney met (3) wonderfully, but fails miserably on (1) and (2) especially since the event has gotten so big.

Houston had (1) and sorta (2) and (3) - maybe with the new convention center planned to replace the Astrodome (2) would work better.

Detroit has (1) but not (2) at all, and hardly (3) because most of the hotels aren't near Ford Field.

Despite just being at IRI, I wasn't downtown. It is my understanding that the new development will have both (1) and (2), and someone else will have to address (3).

What other cities with covered stadiums are there to consider? Not Vegas. Minneapolis? (but who wants to go there in April - weather in Indy would be iffy enough)

I was talking to my dad about this and he asked why teams didn't like Houston and I told him about all of the walking up and down and pushing the robot etc was just difficult and he had a suggestion. He said use golf carts but that got me thinking...

A few students on our team have tried this and it had some success, but if each team ordered 2 extra CIM's and hooked them up to a battery DIRECTLY (so that you don't need the costly stuff) and had to KEEP a button pushed down it would solve much of the problem. I wouldn't mind it being in Houston obviously but if that is one of the better places than it would be worth it for teams to adapt. Now is 2 CIMS a few feet of wire and a few mounting screws really that expensive if you're traveling to Championships?

(The 2 CIMS are just powering the in place wheels, I don't think steering is that difficult. If you wanted you could do a joystick but it'd be too complicated...I smell a white paper!)

I honestly think if a place is really that great, and there are few kinks to work out, it is worth working out those kinks so that you're still able to be in a great place.

Pavan.

EDIT: They tore down Astroworld btw, so I guess if that is what finally persuaded FIRST to move championships there I guess that selling stone is out of the picture.

[Madison]

The 2007 Championship -- held in Atlanta, GA with its covered football stadium and enormous convention center and and and... -- hosted 344 FRC teams.

The 2002 Nationals -- held in Epcot at Walt Disney World with its giant tents, stadium seating and main stage -- hosted 335 teams.

There are way more teams now than there were then, but the size of the event has not changed significantly where FRC teams are concerned. There were operational shifts, certainly, including abandoning the use of the Einstein stage for regular match play. That's not a great loss, all things considered, given how remarkably alike and boring all of the fields have become, however. The biggest change, however, is the inclusion of FLL and FTC competitions at the same event. This is where capacity needs changed and so it's probably wisest to consider the needs of these programs when considering new locations than it is to consider our own.

I think, as with many things in life, the deciding factor in the location is more about economics than it is about anything else. If another city comes along and offers FIRST a better deal that still meets their capacity needs, they'll take it -- even if that city doesn't have a big, ugly football stadium and concrete-floored convention center to make us feel all warm and cozy.

[Kyle379]

Indy is in the process of building a new football stadium (another dome) and upgrading the convention center. . .

[=Martin=Taylor=]

In my completely unrealistic & un-practical opinion I think FIRST ought to build its own stadium.

The stadium would be an ideal location for the championships. It could have an underground pit area, right below the fields. It would be carpeted, and would be surrounded by In-N-Outs, and Krispy Kreme shops. It would also feature an adjacent "Robot Museum," featuring famous or incredible robots from FRC, Pop culture, or the real world.

During the offseason it would be FIRST's HQ. Kickoff would be held here; as well as various conferences and planning sessions. FIRST could pay for the stadium by renting it out to other robotics competitions: BEST, EARLY, Botball, RoboCup, Combots, Robogames, and (depending on FIRST policy) Battlebots.

Of course it would also be used for FRC regionals and various FLL, FVC, and FTC events.

Now where to build it....

[Pavan Dave]

FIRST could pay for the stadium by renting it out to other robotics competitions: BEST, EARLY, Botball,...

Good luck getting that through. EARLY rivals JFLL and BEST and Botball rival FVC, FLL, and even FRC to a degree. So much for working together to promote the common goals these organizations share... :rolleyes:

[ebarker]

piping in with my $ 0.02 worth.

Team distribution maps puts most teams near NY, NY. followed by Detroit and Washington.

It is my understanding that Disney doesn't understand the concept of free. It is a precondition that the public attend FIRST events for free.

What drives the decision mostly is quality of facilities and cost.
The Atlanta facility has the dome and the adjacent GWCC. There are only about 4 facilities like that in North America I'm told. It is easy find a stadium or a conference center, but not co-joined and at the right price.

Atlanta has CNN literally across the street and one of the largest airports in the world with direct flights from everywhere. How efficient the transportation system is in getting you there really affects teams more so than specific geographical location.

I know little about Detroit but they have a nice airport and a new stadium but I don't think they have a cojoined 'pit' area.

full disclosure: I have to vote for Atlanta because I can drive there in 25 minutes.

Ed

[Madison]

It is my understanding that Disney doesn't understand the concept of free. It is a precondition that the public attend FIRST events for free.

The FIRST event was, for most of its time there, held in Epcot's parking lot. It was free to anyone that wanted to attend -- except teams, of course.

[ebarker]

Say What ??

When you say the parking lot, do you mean the pits and competition fields ?

Like outdoors in the sun and rain and stuff ?

Ed

[Alexa Stott]

Say What ??

When you say the parking lot, do you mean the pits and competition fields ?

Like outdoors in the sun and rain and stuff ?

Ed

As far as I know (and this info is just coming from hearing about it, not actually being there), but the pits were covered by a large tent and were outdoors.

[Jeremiah Johnson]

Say What ??

When you say the parking lot, do you mean the pits and competition fields ?

Like outdoors in the sun and rain and stuff ?

Ed

Easily stated, yes. Like Alexa said, covered by tents. The walk from the pits to the fields were uncovered, if I remember correctly. If you were in the back of the viewing area, you couldn't see anything. It was a pretty bad place to be if you were susceptible to sunburns... :o

[Kyle379]

I believe the new Indy stadium will connect to the conference center thats already there. It attaches to the RCA dome but thats getting torn down to add on to the conference center - which is right next to the new stadium.

[cziggy343]

Well, I have to say that I did love the one year that I went to the Championship in Disney that it was great. It's a fun place to be, but when I went, they were already kinda running out of space. Having that many teams there could be problamatic for moving around from pit to playing field.

Even though our team is only about a two hour drive to Atlanta, I think that it would be very good for FIRST and for many teams to have the Championship more easily acessible to more people. Some place in the midwest (such as St. Louis, Minneapolis, Indianapolis, Houston) would be easier for west coast teams to get there.

While safety is an issue anywhere, I dont think that security is number one on reasoning for the event to be held. If this was the case, some of the regionals that exist now, wouldn't. Atlanta is a dangerous city, but what city isn't. There are regionals in Richmond, St. Louis, New Orleans, and if im not mistaken LA and San Deigo (just to name a few). If safety was number one priority, then some of these regionals wouldn't exist.

My verdict would just be to find a different place to spread FIRST that has adequite facilities similar to the setup in Atlanta. If I remember, St. Louis would be a good pick, but it's been a long time since ive been there.

My $.02

[ebarker]

Having the event at Disney in a parking lot boggles my mind.

I'm not sure that I would call Atlanta 'dangerous' compared to many other large cities. It certainly requires a bit of caution amongst all attendees, especially visitors that are not familiar with the city. The danger thing is a relative thing, to itself and to other cities. That whole area from Northside to North to downtown has been changing and upgrading fairly quickly over the last 15 years. And it's good to see that.

I think it would be great (no matter what city it is in) that there is a higher level of police presence strolling around the outside areas. If nothing else it will help out of towners feel safer.

I was in Indy a few years ago and I'm interested in seeing how the new facilities pan out. On a side point, in the RCA dome is a huge US Flag hanging from the ceiling of the dome. The best I can tell the people that made the flag didn't know what they were doing and have the dimensions (aspect ratio) all wrong. There is actually a federal spec for that and I'm surprised that got it wrong in a high profile building like that.

If most people fly then the event should be in the NYC area. But for a lot of non-northeast people NYC could be way more intimidating than ATL.

If most people drive, then Indy is more central. But all this chit-chat assumes there is a real need to change and the need may not really be there. If most teams now have the knowhow to get the ATL thing done then everyone doesn't have to relearn things for a new city.

This isn't the best thread for this but I have to post 2 gripes about the Championship and it is about the teams, not FIRST.

1) I couldn't believe the rudeness and attitudes from some parents on some teams regarding seat saving. They would carve out vast swaths of seats with none of their people in sight and didn't want to give up 5 seats for 15 minutes.

2) During the awards ceremony, the number of people that started leaving before the Chairman's Award was given.

I don't think it violates a principle of gracious professionalism to point out these two egregious behaviors.

We, all teams collectively, need to work on our manners.

My 57 cents.

Ed

[Luis28]

The championship should be held any place but CT or NY it should be place in Hawaii, LA, or Orlando. It should be in a place with a beach and a lot of sun:D

[Madison]

Having the event at Disney in a parking lot boggles my mind.

Look around CD-Media for some pictures taken at the event in Epcot. I think you'll find that it was a bit more than a simple parking lot. I usually describe it as a small city -- and I think that paints a more accurate picture. The venue and facilities provided were much nicer than the bare concrete floors and walls of the pits in Atlanta and the vast, empty space that is the Georgia Dome.

[JesseK]

Atlanta has CNN literally across the street and one of the largest airports in the world with direct flights from everywhere. Too bad CNN can't get up off their butts and walk over to the Dome to give just a little coverage of something positive that's happening in the nation for once.

I also agree that transportation is a key factor into where this event should be held. The city must be equipped with an international airport in addition to a facility with the capacity and staffing for FIRST.

However, it seems that alot of people are missing a key point: On top of that there needs to exist a ridiculous amount of hotel rooms in the same area as the event such that teams can walk to the event in about 30 minutes -- this infers that the event must be held in a downtown area since the only other area known to have a plethora of hotels is the airport itself. So a brand new convention center + stadium is probably not going to get on the list of possible candidates until there are enough hotel rooms for 15,000 people at an affordable rate.

Having a place with the capacity to do the after party is also nice, but not as much of a "must" as these other key things.

Personally, I'd like to see a city that has alot of extracirriculars to offer in addition to the FIRST competition -- Braves Baseball and (whatever they're called) Hockey was nice in Atlanta, but perhaps we could also arrange something like a tour of Google or GM or similar if it was held in the appropriate city.

[cziggy343]

Look around CD-Media for some pictures taken at the event in Epcot. I think you'll find that it was a bit more than a simple parking lot. I usually describe it as a small city -- and I think that paints a more accurate picture. The venue and facilities provided were much nicer than the bare concrete floors and walls of the pits in Atlanta and the vast, empty space that is the Georgia Dome.

Yeah, but in the year 2000, which is the year that I went to the then nationals, space was limited. The facilities were better, but now the space that was available then would now not hold the 344 teams that were in this year's Championship event.

[Madison]

Yeah, but in the year 2000, which is the year that I went to the then nationals, space was limited. The facilities were better, but now the space that was available then would now not hold the 344 teams that were in this year's Championship event.


The 2007 Championship -- held in Atlanta, GA with its covered football stadium and enormous convention center and and and... -- hosted 344 FRC teams.

The 2002 Nationals -- held in Epcot at Walt Disney World with its giant tents, stadium seating and main stage -- hosted 335 teams.

;)

Space for FRC teams doesn't seem to be an issue at this time.

[cziggy343]

;)

Space for FRC teams doesn't seem to be an issue at this time.

point taken. :D

now we just have to get someone to pay for it :eek:

[Rafi Ahmed]

Too bad CNN can't get up off their butts and walk over to the Dome to give just a little coverage of something positive that's happening in the nation for once.


CNN did go to the Dome and cover the event, at least they did this year. It was on saturday if I'm not mistaken.

[Andy Baker]

;)
Space for FRC teams doesn't seem to be an issue at this time.


There is much more to the event than only space for FRC teams. Consider FTC, FLL, Conferences, Supplier's Showcase, College Fair tables, VIP and Volunteer areas. All have gotten considerably larger since 2002.

Along with the number of FRC teams, these things must be considered.

Andy B.

[Madison]

There is much more to the event than only space for FRC teams. Consider FTC, FLL, Conferences, Supplier's Showcase, College Fair tables, VIP and Volunteer areas. All have gotten considerably larger since 2002.

Along with the number of FRC teams, these things must be considered.

Andy B.

Absolutely, Andy. I mentioned the growth of those other programs in my original post, so I didn't want to repeat it all again. It seems that, these days, most of the space required to host the Championship is contingent upon the success of programs like FTC and FLL and not, at all, upon FRC. It's an interesting perspective to consider given that many folks around here talk about the other programs as if they exist only to support and supplement "the big leagues."

[OZ_341]

Even if we never go back to Disney, it is our true home and we will always be away from it.
It makes me sad to think that the last 9th grade students to visit Disney will be Juniors in college. Even a good percentage of the current FIRST staff must have been hired post-Disney.

As less people remember Disney, I fear our chances of returning are almost zero. :(

Other towns are fun, including Atlanta, but they don't match being at Disney with over 300 teams. It was worth being sunburned in the stands! :D

[JaneYoung]

Even if we never go back to Disney, it is our true home and we will always be away from it.

For some, it seems a sadness - a nostalgia/homesickness.

(When our teacher talks about it, he talks about the food. Something like miles and miles of food. :))

Edit: more thought - but with growth, comes change - and talk of more growth/expansion. The homework assignment last season met with some successes and the homework assignment this coming season will meet with more - and that will impact all of the areas that M. and Andy have discussed and possibly introduce more areas that will require attention and consideration.

[ebarker]

I know for fact that CNN covered it well the last two years. There is CNN headline and CNN. I know a couple of years a go it seemed FIRST was on all day.

I don't know how much time was spent this year but I did see several things and I had a couple of people tell me that they watched competition on Saturday morning on CNN and even saw our team competing.

Ed

[AmyPrib]

I know that with nationals in Atlanta a lot of teams up the east coast drive down (we live in the northernmost part of PA and drove down) and unfortunately most teams from the west coast have to fly (I'm not sure if any drove or not). With nationals in the middle of the country I believe it would increase the number of teams that would need to fly... I could be wrong though. And also I think that having CNN in Atlanta is a huge plus (they arranged a satellite feed to a local news station).

Actually, I did a brief study on this when Indy bid for the championships and almost got it. I'd have to find the old file, but it did not increase the number of teams that would need to fly - in fact it reduced the number. I think I set the driving distance to be reasonable at 10hrs, and the number of teams within that radius to Indy was more than that to Atlanta. Even at 8-9hrs driving distance it still won out. I believe I initially used the team attendance from the '05 championships, I forget. But when you look at the population distribution of all FRC teams - you have many, many teams in the midwest and east coast, and even south, within a very reasonable driving distance to Indy.

Indiana has a strong FIRST community and state educational support, and I don't think getting news attention is too difficult. We can also draw from many of the surrounding states media pretty easily since IL, MI, OH, WI, MN are all strong in FIRST. Obviously I would like to see it come to Indiana sometime but mostly because I see a lot of pros/advantages to doing so.

This thread has gotten so long now that many of the comments and debates are repeated. And who knows - perhaps the whole structure of FIRST will change, and championships will no longer be what it has been. With the expected growth, we should definitely expect some changes.

[Cory]

ome place in the midwest (such as St. Louis, Minneapolis, Indianapolis, Houston) would be easier for west coast teams to get there.

If anything, it's more expensive to fly to any of those cities from the west coast than Atlanta.

Atlanta is one of, if not the cheapest major airport to fly to from the west coast. As I recall it, Orlando was a little cheaper in 2002, but ticket prices have been steadily rising since 9/11.

[Karthik]

If anything, it's more expensive to fly to any of those cities from the west coast than Atlanta.

Atlanta is one of, if not the cheapest major airport to fly to from the west coast. As I recall it, Orlando was a little cheaper in 2002, but ticket prices have been steadily rising since 9/11.

Cory is correct. What many people fail to realize, is that distance is not the largest determinant of price when dealing with flights within the continental United States. The demand for flights into a given city is. In 2006, Atlanta's Hartsfield airport ranked first in number of passengers and second in number of flights (Chicago's O'Hare was number one). Orlando is typically one of the cheaper cities to fly to, because of the large amount of tourist traffic they do, and the amount of charter services that result from the tourism.

The advantage to having the Championship in Indianapolis in terms of flights, as Amy pointed out, is that considerably fewer teams would have the need to fly. Although, I'm sure this is little consolation to the teams on the West Coast.

[Tottanka]

Although, I'm sure this is little consolation to the teams on the West Coast.
As an Israeli team, we dont really care.
I suggest Israel for the championship though, who's with me? :D

[IndySam]

Cory is correct. What many people fail to realize, is that distance is not the largest determinant of price when dealing with flights within the continental United States. The demand for flights into a given city is. In 2006, Atlanta's Hartsfield airport ranked first in number of passengers and second in number of flights (Chicago's O'Hare was number one). Orlando is typically one of the cheaper cities to fly to, because of the large amount of tourist traffic they do, and the amount of charter services that result from the tourism.

The advantage to having the Championship in Indianapolis in terms of flights, as Amy pointed out, is that considerably fewer teams would have the need to fly. Although, I'm sure this is little consolation to the teams on the West Coast.

Atlanta is dominated by Delta, which can keep prices higher. Indy not dominated by any airline so the competition keeps prices low. Indy also gets Southwest which helps keep prices down.

Indy will also have a totally brand new terminal.

A few west coast examples.

LAX to Indy $244 LAX to ATL $234
San Diego to Indy $283 SD to ATL $317
Portland to Indy $244 to ATL $409

[Cory]

Atlanta is dominated by Delta, which can keep prices higher. Indy not dominated by any airline so the competition keeps prices low. Indy also gets Southwest which helps keep prices down.

Indy will also have a totally brand new terminal.

A few west coast examples.

LAX to Indy $244 LAX to ATL $234
San Diego to Indy $283 SD to ATL $317
Portland to Indy $244 to ATL $409

Your last two examples are both pretty small airports, by my standards.

I've never seen flights to Indy from SFO, SEA, LAX, etc that were consistently cheaper than to Atlanta. Maybe super low bargain bin specials, but that's it.

[IndySam]

Your last two examples are both pretty small airports, by my standards.

I've never seen flights to Indy from SFO, SEA, LAX, etc that were consistently cheaper than to Atlanta. Maybe super low bargain bin specials, but that's it.

SFO to Indy $314 SFO to ATL $304
SEA to Indy $315 SEA to ATL $343


Regular flight were about the same with only $20 or $30 difference either way.

[bigbeezy]

you also got to think of the international teams that would be traveling to the championships. I would imagine that teams from South America, Europe, and Isreal would find cheaper flights going into atlanta as oposed to just about anyother city. Even though they number far less than west coast American teams we cannot forget that they too are apart of FIRST.

Personally, I think FIRST should work more with airlines to help teams get cheaper rates so more teams are able to experience the Championships.

[Cooley744]

Europe. OR the Caribbean. OR New York. Some where totally AWESOME!!!

[pufame]

As an Israeli team, we dont really care.
I suggest Israel for the championship though, who's with me? :D

Somehow I think airfare would be a tad bit more for US teams, what with the ocean and all... and I don't think most of our team would want to try to drive...

[dangerousdave]

There are some well deserving cities that have or will have, the facilities that Atlanta has for the Championship events. I think it will be very difficult to match what we have here in the facilities, hotels, restaurants, local transportation, a major worldwide news network and an airport that can handle the world.

Another city will very likely host the event for quite a few years I think, beginning in 2010. Then perhaps someday it will return to Atlanta. It seems fair that other cities be given the chance to host the event, perhaps it will help some teams travel costs and we can enjoy other parts of the country.:)

Dave

[cziggy343]

Does anybody know when the bid to have the championships in Atlanta actually runs out? are we for sure that it is 2010?

[Otaku]

San Fransisco would be nice.

I can almost guarantee that the proper facilities are there, It's a nice city (so long as you stay out of the bad parts), there's plenty of public transportation (I once went from my house to the metreon on only buses, and I live 60mi north of SF), it'd be easier on western teams, etc.

Or hell, anywhere on the west coast would be better (just not alaska, because that'd be a pain the butt for everybody, except the alaskans (even though I would LOVE to go to alaska)).

Or it could switch every year. East coast one year, West coast the next.

[Cory]

San Fransisco would be nice.

I can almost guarantee that the proper facilities are there, It's a nice city (so long as you stay out of the bad parts), there's plenty of public transportation (I once went from my house to the metreon on only buses, and I live 60mi north of SF), it'd be easier on western teams, etc.

Or hell, anywhere on the west coast would be better (just not alaska, because that'd be a pain the butt for everybody, except the alaskans (even though I would LOVE to go to alaska)).

Or it could switch every year. East coast one year, West coast the next.

San Francisco would be a relatively bad city. The only thing it has going for it is a large airport nearby.

The only 'suitable' venue would be Moscone Center, which would be entirely unsuitable for a FIRST competition anyways. As has been mentioned before, you ideally need an enclosed stadium with a conference center, or other large pit-sized area attached/next door. Nowhere in the bay area fits that bill.

One (the only?) site I can think of on the west coast that would meet the above criteria is the new Arizona Cardinals stadium. It's enclosed, and the field rolls out to allow other events to be held inside (it's actually a really cool engineering feat. Everyone should check it out, football fans or not). I don't know if it has any kind of attached conference center/facilities though.

[N7UJJ]

San Francisco has the Cow Palace. There have been presidential conventions, rodeos, circuses, auto races, etc held in the main building. It's been a long time since I have been there so maybe it is not as big as I think it is. Here is a view:
http://maps.google.com/maps?hl=en&ie=UTF8&ll=37.706547,-122.418176&spn=0.004397,0.010042&t=h&z=17&om=1

[Cory]

San Francisco has the Cow Palace. There have been presidential conventions, rodeos, circuses, auto races, etc held in the main building. It's been a long time since I have been there so maybe it is not as big as I think it is. Here is a view:
http://maps.google.com/maps?hl=en&ie=UTF8&ll=37.706547,-122.418176&spn=0.004397,0.010042&t=h&z=17&om=1

A quick comparison shows the maximum floorspace of the Cow Palace to be ~30,000 sq. ft.

The space required for a football field alone, on the GA dome floor is ~60,000 sq ft. Plus extra room on all sides.

If the championship event was changed to only include FRC, it could be held any number of places--including Disney again, I'd assume. But as long as it stays the size it is (FRC, FTC, FLL), there's no real way it can be held anywhere but a domed football stadium with an attached conference center.

[Andy Baker]

The space required for a football field alone, on the GA dome floor is ~60,000 sq ft. Plus extra room on all sides.

If the championship event was changed to only include FRC, it could be held any number of places--including Disney again, I'd assume. But as long as it stays the size it is (FRC, FTC, FLL), there's no real way it can be held anywhere but a domed football stadium with an attached conference center.

Good points.

While talking to the bid coordinator of Indy's FIRST Championship bid package the last couple of years, here is some info he has given me:

RCA Dome* floor size: 94,000 square feet (about)
Georgia Dome floor size: about the same as the RCA Dome floor
Lucas Oil Stadium** floor size: 150,000 square feet, after one end of the stadium has its removable seats taken away

* - home of the current Super Bowl Champions, Indianapolis Colts
** - future home of the Colts, starting in 2008

So, if FIRST chose to put their Championships in Indy, using Lucas Oil Stadium, the dome floor would be over 50% larger than the current setup is in Atlanta. I'm wondering if this is big enough for both the FRC pits and the fields.

Andy B.

[galewind]

is that stadium domed, andy?

[ebarker]

RE the pit areas.

The pit area in the GWCC in Atlanta has 4 segments of > 100,000 feet.

FIRST uses I think 3 segments so that is > 300,000 feet.

That isn't including the conference rooms upstairs or the conference rooms on the floor level at the east end of the GWCC.

[Overyourhead]

The same goes for Providence -- I like the city but I don't think there's a big enough venue. I think the Rhode Island Convention Center is big enough for pits, but there isn't really a good place to put the actual competition.


Providence actually would be a great place to hold a regional. Almost all of providence is made up of hotels, inn's and restaurants because of Johnson and Wales University. The Convention Center is actually very big. several floors of just open Space. Though I don't think it could hold a regional of 100 teams. It could very well hold a regional of 50ish teams.

Also RI has the Dunkin donuts Center. Though I have never been in it I know it is rather Large. They are constantly holding Monster truck shows there so it must be very large. Also it is a dome with stadium seating. So it would be like a mini-Atlanta.

[IBdrummer]

It would be kinda cool to see FIRST move around a little.

I understand that they want to stay in the same place for a while because they really learn the area, the facilities and could best run a compeition from year to year just being familiar with the facility.

I'd love to see FIRST go to Orlando for a year or two, LA for a year or two, NYC, Chicago, etc..

First reason is FIRST would really spread and word would get around about the program by local media.

Next reason is because I think each of those big cities almost everybody would like to see, I mean who doesn't want to go to LA just once or hang out in Time Square?

Unfortunatly those cities probably out price themselves. I mean for those teams that have buses drive them everywhere, the gas prices just outside NYC on Sunday were $2.37 a gallon, and I could only imagine how much money it would cost to get a hotel room or for FIRST to pay for a building, and I'm sure LA and the west coast out price themselves too.

Yeah, I can see how gas prices like that around New York would cause high traveling costs. Good thing it's still in Atlanta ;)

[Scott Carpman]

Yeah, I can see how gas prices like that around New York would cause high traveling costs. Good thing it's still in Atlanta ;)

Gas is hovering at $3.50/gal right now, but that's nothing compared to diesel (I saw it at close to $5/gal yesterday). However, if you were smart, you'd give back to NJ/NYC FIRST by using the train everywhere and supporting one of our major sponsors. A mere $2 gets you anywhere in the city on the bus and subway.