View Full Version : Cheering, standing ovations, and required team actions during matches and awards
Andy Baker
28-04-2005, 01:13
In the 2005 Lessons Learned: the negative (http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/showthread.php?t=37617) thread, a debate came forth about teams who stand up and cheer. Issues were raised by people who said that they don't like seeing people "required" to cheer for other teams. Other people said that it was not courtious to contine to stand and block the veiws of people behind them. There are a couple of facets to this debate, and I wanted to start a new thread to put them in here.
Since our team was singled out and it was said that we "required" our team to stand up and cheer, I will state our position on this.
Before our initial regional this year, we talked about cheering for other teams during the awards ceremony. I said something like "we will stand up and cheer for those teams, because we would appreciate it if they stood up for us". I didn't yell at them about this. It is simply something that we do. Follow us around for a year or two, this is something that defines what TechnoKats are. I'll try to explain more in the next paragraphs.
We've been doing this FIRST thing for 14 years. We've had spirited teams, competitive teams, non-competitive teams, and "sportsmanship teams". Over the past 5-6 years, we really have not been a spirited team. We are the ones who just sit in the stands, sometimes standing up to cheer when our team is on the field. We grumble when the team in front of us is very loud, but we also realize that we can move if we don't like it. Heck, we have NEVER won a spirit award in those 14 years.
However, during the awards, we have been standing up to cheer our fellow FIRST teams on since we had a bad attitude at a regional in 1999. I remember it vividly... it was a defining moment for us. FIRST even made a docementary out of us and our pivotal attitude adjustment at that regional.
Here is my opinion on why we do this:
1. We have won many awards. We enjoy seeing our friends on other teams win these awards. We honestly feel that if the judges think that this team deserves this award, the least we can do is stand up for them and cheer.
2. We want to win an award too. We have pouted because we did not win a certain award. However, oddly enough, it feels better to stand up and clap for the other team who won the award we *think* we deserve. In my opinion, this is theraputic for us. I recommend trying it for other teams who think they deserve an award but believe they are snubbed.
3. Award ceremonies are long. Standing up and sitting down 6-7 times during these ceremonies keeps us from falling asleep.
4. This has become a TechnoKat tradition. Maybe this is something we should put on the backs of our shirts: "beware - this person will stand up and cheer for other teams during FIRST award ceremonies".
So... I would agree that we are guilty to requiring our team members to stand for others when they get awards. It is a gentle requirement, though. Our student was wrong when they said that we would yell at them. We don't yell at our students (well... there was that one year when 13 of our kids didn't make grades and I YELLED MY HEAD OFF!).
Sheesh... sorry about the long post. Debate as you wish.
Andy B.
Right on, Andy!
I agree 100%
As someone said in the other thread "this is a high energy sporting event, not a piano recital" let's treat it that way.
Cheering for other teams is a common courtesy. The least we can do is respect each other.
Cheering for a team that wins award shows it's worth something, that people actually care. How would you feel if you received an award and it was dead silent? The only way people could make it more clear that they really don't give a darn is if they booed you.
If you don't like teams cheering around you, next time I suggest you sit in the end zones of the dome, as far away as possible, so YOU don't ruin the mood of the competition.
Ryan Dognaux
28-04-2005, 07:34
234 has gotten in the habit of just automatically standing for a team that wins an award. And that's a good thing, it should be almost an automatic reaction. When a team wins an award, you applaud them for their hard work and effort. You take the extra 5 seconds to stand up and give them some recognition.
I think it's absurd to single out a team unless you're doing it in a positive manner. All teams should stand and applaud an award winning team, it's just that not all of them do.
Bill Moore
28-04-2005, 07:35
MOE is another team that spends significant amounts of time "out of our seats" at a competition.
In between matches, during changeover and maintenance time for the field, we will get up and dance to whatever the DJ is playing. Once the match is ready to go though, we sit down for those behind us as the MC begins announcing the teams. We do cheer, not only for our own team, but for many others including friends, rookies we have helped, and others. In Galileo, the list of teams we cheered for was very long; we had many competitive friends in that division. We even had a request on Saturday from the UPS team (sorry I forgot the number) to cheer for them. They had a small presence in the stands (6 or 7 people) and wanted a loud cheer for their competition team. No problem, we helped provide it. TJ^2 came down during one of our matches and helped support our cheer with their water cooler drums, and we appreciated their encouragement.
Listen to the MC's from each division, they want the cheering level and enthusiasm high. They will encourage it themselves when they sense a letdown in energy. These are geek sports and deserve a crown as loud and as spirited as any for human sport. (That term was "spirited", not mean-spirited as many human sport crowds can become.)
During award ceremonies, our team will stand and cheer for every winning team. We do this out of respect for our competitors. We have met them on the field of competition, or in the judging arenas, and they have been recognized as THE Champion of those contests. As fellow competitors, they deserve the honor of having us acknowledge their winning efforts.
SuperJake
28-04-2005, 07:59
When I'm not wearing my green, I sometimes overhear people talking about my team with disgust in their voice. They say that everyone is standing up, dancing, and having a good time just because we want the team spirit award. This frustrates me beyond reason. A spirited bunch of high schoolers is something that is rather difficult to fabricate on demand. Most of the students I've had the pleasure of knowing are just out having a good time. The head scout, Bernie, is really a crazy guy in real life. He, along with the help of some crazy parents, are just having a good time. Actually, the crazy parents mentioned previously (Tom Z and Karen O especially) are supporting the team even after their kids went off to college in a far away land.
Is it so hard to believe that people stand up, dance, cheer, and have a good time because they truly are having a good time?
<edit> I said 'most of the students' without talking about the others. The students that aren't in the stands having a good time are usually in the pits, on the competition team, or sitting in the stands quietly. Usually they are just sitting there because they are writing a scouting report, jumping up and down is not their thing, or they are tired, or what have you. Still others just like walking around the pits, playing outside with other teams, or hanging out talking outside of the arena where it is quieter. And then, of course, there is the 4% of people always in transition between the bathroom and eating. </edit>
We realized how much fun it was to win an award and have everyone "high five" us as we returned to our seats, so we have tried to continue that tradition at some of the regionals. It can be a safety issue, however, so I think the tradition has come to an end. :( We usually do stand, though, to honor our fellow FIRSTers' achievements when they win an award. It's not as much of a "spirit" thing as it is an "honor and respect" thing.
We have pouted because we did not win a certain award. However, oddly enough, it feels better to stand up and clap for the other team who won the award we *think* we deserve. In my opinion, this is theraputic for us. I recommend trying it for other teams who think they deserve an award but believe they are snubbed. Andy B. It's a tough thing to do but you are all my friends. If I didn't win, then I am certainly going to fight back the tears and swallow my pride and CONGRATULATE YOU because I am happy for you! I am going to march over to your team when we lose to you in a Finals match and congratulate you for your outstanding performance. It's what GP is all about. It's what I've learned through FIRST.
I will make a post as one from a team that is just "getting it". First let me say that the teams that have posted above, do not cheer because they have to. I have become friends with many over my 4 years in FIRST. They cheer because of what's inside. A genuine love of FIRST and a real spirit of good will toward others. I have talked with a lot of the individuals and believe it or not they ARE contagious. The spirit does infect all that they come in contact with. Our team over the past season has changed from one that I could not move calling from the floor with a mic to one that was on the field leading cheers at SoCal. What a difference in the team spirit and attitude. I sure hope that it continues next year.
As an announcer I can tell you that there is nothing worse than a quiet field. It actually draws energy from everything. Where there is spirit, there is energy. I am a little selfish I know but as a 50+ person I need the teams to give out energy so that I can take it and do my job better. I love FIRST and all of those involved. I love the untapped energy that is running free at all FIRST events. This needs to continue. Don't become doorstops and just sit there. Stand up and cheer for yourselves and others. That is FIRST, don't change it.
Personally I don't mind when teams stand during the awards ceremonies. It's good sportsmanship, and besides, what else is there to do in the stands at that point? (It's better than leaving in the middle of the awards. Would you appreciate it if someone left while you were being reconized?)
My problem (and I know I'm repeating myself with most of this from the other topic, and I apologize) with teams standing up is when they do so during matches. I think it's neat when they'll stand and cheer for their team when they're being announced, and perhaps stay standing to cheer for the entire alliance, but please sit back down once they're done announcing teams and the match begins.
I know they're showing support for their team, but can't the same be done while sitting? We know where they are, so is there really a true point to it? Some people are trying to scout, and it's rather hard when they can't see the robot to take notes. Perhaps this can be solved next year by setting aside certain sections upfront to allow one or two people from a team to sit and not be interupted. Also, not everyone in the stands are young adults and teenagers. There are parents, grandparents, and so forth who come to see their child(ren) play, and by standing the entire time, you're denying them the fun that we get from the match as well.
Let's show more gracious professionalism and just sit down during the matches if you're not going anywhere. You're just as loud while sitting as you are standing.
I must say, I agree with Jasmin on this one. People should definitely be courteous for the people sitting behind them during matches. Other people wish to see what your robot has to offer and can't if you're standing in the way. As for the award ceremony, people started screaming as soon as the person that was giving out the award said "and the award goes to", completely keeping my team and I from knowing who received the award. Please, time your cheering accordingly.
Another topic that is very annoying to me (and others) : Big signs.
I don't mind when big signs are hung off a ledge of some sort, but when they are held up in the audience by some members of a team, that is just plain rude.
Who are you trying to show that sign? the refs? the MC? the judges? the players? I fail to see the point of obstructing peoples view to only expose your "spirited" advertisement to a minority of those attending whatever regional or championship you are at.
Big signs.
I don't mind when big signs are hung off a ledge of some sort, but when they are held up in the audience by some members of a team, that is just plain rude.
Who are you trying to show that sign? the refs? the MC? the judges? the players? I fail to see the point of obstructing peoples view to only expose your "spirited" advertisement to a minority of those attending whatever regional or championship you are at.
I understand why people make big signs. I also don't have a problem with them waving them in the stands. I do agree that they should not be doing so during matches. The same goes with standing during matches. If you go to a concert, any type of game or entertainment it is a common courtesy that you remain seated during the event. To jump up in excitement at an event when something happens is natural but to stand through the whole match is unnecessary and rude. You can still clap, cheer, show excitement, just sitting down.
Billfred
28-04-2005, 09:18
I understand why people make big signs. I also don't have a problem with them waving them in the stands. I do agree that they should not be doing so during matches. The same goes with standing during matches. If you go to a concert, any type of game or entertainment it is a common courtesy that you remain seated during the event. To jump up in excitement at an event when something happens is natural but to stand through the whole match is unnecessary and rude. You can still clap, cheer, show excitement, just sitting down.
I wholeheartedly agree with Steve here, but I'll qualify that.
The last concert that I plunked down significant money to attend was Weird Al Yankovic in 2003. And apparently Al's got one of those groups of die-hards that goes to every show and stands.
Of course, what did they do? They sat in the back of their section, where there was a convenient break in the seats so the folks further back could see Al, not the backs of their heads.
What am I getting at here? If 'ya just gotsta stand up for all three days (and you can somehow tolerate the wear and tear on your ankles), sit towards the back of the venue!
It's been brought up before in another thread but I just want to add this suggestion here:
Cheering sections for teams that are on the field at the time..I remember at epcot and KSC they had sections in the front where teams could stand and cheer for their teams below the seating level, and people sitting behind them could still see over them. I know when I was still actively involved it used to be hard to control yourself from jumping up and down when 6 weeks of your life was down on the field.
Ok...now back to studying for finals :(
Joe Matt
28-04-2005, 09:33
Well said Mr. Baker, well said. Us at 384 have the same view as you do, we cheer for us and other teams at VCU not because we want to win an award but because we are excited about the competition. Do we tell our kids they should stand and clap for those winning awards? Sure do, so do other teams. But do we yell? Nope, only if they act disrespectful of others. If a students chooses not to clap or cheer, fine, but they will feel left out.
Personally, I don't know why people even bring this up as an issue, we have better things to do than post about cheering on Cheifdelphi. What a team does for cheering or such is up to the team.
That's my $.02
Now for a solution. We have over 50 people easy at VCU cheering for Sparky. At Champs we have much less. I mean you can barely hear anything on the floor! I agree with the suggestion above of creating cheering sections on the floor, but I'd understand if FIRST doesn't create one due to space issues (space issues in the Georgia Dome?)
When I'm not wearing my green, I sometimes overhear people talking about my team with disgust in their voice. They say that everyone is standing up, dancing, and having a good time just because we want the team spirit award. This frustrates me beyond reason. A spirited bunch of high schoolers is something that is rather difficult to fabricate on demand. Most of the students I've had the pleasure of knowing are just out having a good time. The head scout, Bernie, is really a crazy guy in real life. He, along with the help of some crazy parents, are just having a good time. Actually, the crazy parents mentioned previously (Tom Z and Karen O especially) are supporting the team even after their kids went off to college in a far away land.
Is it so hard to believe that people stand up, dance, cheer, and have a good time because they truly are having a good time?
<edit> I said 'most of the students' without talking about the others. The students that aren't in the stands having a good time are usually in the pits, on the competition team, or sitting in the stands quietly. Usually they are just sitting there because they are writing a scouting report, jumping up and down is not their thing, or they are tired, or what have you. Still others just like walking around the pits, playing outside with other teams, or hanging out talking outside of the arena where it is quieter. And then, of course, there is the 4% of people always in transition between the bathroom and eating. </edit>
I observed your team at the championship with a certain degree of envy as our team sat in the stands with little enthusiasm. Your team spirit seemed genuine and unrehearsed; everyone was enjoying themselves. You provided a great role model for other teams.
Rich Kressly
28-04-2005, 11:48
Thanks so much for this thread Andy. I came across a similar situation, but even one step worse, in Atlanta this year. A Hall of Fame FIRST team (OK, it's 103) was standing and cheering for their own robot and drive team during a match. A FIRST Ambassador asked the team to sit because others couldn't see. A student politely explained that it was just during their match and that it was common for many teams to do this. The ambassador told this polite student that they weren't demonstrating gracious professionalism by standing. Sigh. Thankfully this is an isolated incident.
This is a team that, six years ago, had nearly no visible team spirit at competitions. In 2001 this team began an incredible transformation. By 2002, it became common for the group to cheer vigorously for their own and other teams. Do we really want to ask these teams to display less enthusiasm and less support for others? My answer is NO. Standing and cheering at appropriate times might be a minor and temporary inconvenience to some, but looking at the big picture, this is behavior FIRST needs to have and needs to foster. Cheering for others is different perhaps, but we are about culture change, aren't we?
the_short1
28-04-2005, 12:02
i also know of a lot of video tapers to be in the stands and we get in the way wwhen ppl stand to cheer.. and scouters . . my suggestion.. why dont the scouters/ filmers for each team have their own section JUST for them < reserved (or on the front row) and not let anyone else sit there.... so others aren't in their way.. i think that would be fair for both teams..
i know at each regional and at the champs, we always send our camera ppl on the front row.. or really high up.. but i saw some teams behind us in galileo trying to film.. and i was like.. are you nuts? .. we have flags and we proudly fly the canada and US flag .. and we have a couple smaller team flags.. and really they should think about that before sitting there..
Do we really want to ask these teams to display less enthusiasm and less support for others? My answer is NO. Standing and cheering at appropriate times might be a minor and temporary inconvenience to some, but looking at the big picture, this is behavior FIRST needs to have and needs to foster.
I agree, our team was always standing whenever our Drive Team and robot was around. We also were one of a few teams that gave standing ovations for award winning teams on Newton, i was very suprised to see veteran teams sitting and not cheering. We are a very spirited team and love to cheer, scream, and yell. We were told numerous times by another team that was sitting behind us to sit down, this was distressing for me because like i said we love to cheer. A judge at LSR described are team as the team with the Pshyco Fans, wich we take as a great complement.
SuperJake
28-04-2005, 12:20
i also know of a lot of video tapers to be in the stands and we get in the way wwhen ppl stand to cheer.. and scouters . . my suggestion.. why dont the scouters/ filmers for each team have their own section JUST for them < reserved (or on the front row) and not let anyone else sit there.... so others aren't in their way.. i think that would be fair for both teams..
i know at each regional and at the champs, we always send our camera ppl on the front row.. or really high up.. but i saw some teams behind us in galileo trying to film.. and i was like.. are you nuts? .. we have flags and we proudly fly the canada and US flag .. and we have a couple smaller team flags.. and really they should think about that before sitting there..
When I was the lead videographer for MOE back in the day, we always had to prepare for people getting up in front of the cameras. I always set up my tripod right in the middle of my team and extend it up over the raised hands of my team mates in front of me. When the taping was done, I'd always lower it again so it doesn't block everything. It was an easy enough work around. Additionally, with FIRSTs inclusion of media passes for team members makes the taping thing a lot smoother since you can get down in the restricted area around the field.
FIRST is taking care of the video people because a lot of teams use those videos for recruiting or sponsorship purposes. I've also been on the scouting side (if you are idle in the MOE stands, you will quickly be recruited by the scouts) of things. Again, I usually sit at the back of the MOE section so I've got a good buffer between myself and teams in front of us that might be standing up.
Greg McCoy
28-04-2005, 12:23
Enthuastic cheering for other teams...man, what a bunch of jerks. Haven't these people heard of gracious professionalism? :rolleyes:
At many sporting events (the Indianapolis 500 comes to mind), all of the spectators stand at exciting points such as during the start and finish of the race, or when something exciting happens on the track. Nobody tells anybody else to sit down...if you want to see, you have to stand up too! Why should FIRST be any different?
Perhaps a location should be reserved for scouts or media people wanting to videotape matches, but for the most part complaining that you can't see because other teams are cheering seems silly. Especially during the award ceremonies...what exactly did you want to see, anyway? :confused:
Kevin Sevcik
28-04-2005, 12:52
I have a perfectly easy and logical solution to this whole problem. We'll take the Texas A&M method of having everyone stand for the entire game/day.
Seriously, though, I have no problem with standing Os and people cheering and stuff, but some consideration needs to be given to the people behind you. There are older and/or less able mentors in the stands and you could be sitting in front of them. If someone asks you to please sit down, think about doing so. Don't assume they're not standing just because they're lazy or not spirited. If you had a teammate with a busted knee or ankle, you wouldn't make him stand up every other match so he could see, would you? Or would you make him get up and change seats every few matches so you wouldn't be standing up in front of him? Like much of life, there's a balance to be struck between your own needs and desires, and those of others.
i also know of a lot of video tapers to be in the stands and we get in the way wwhen ppl stand to cheer.. and scouters . . my suggestion.. why dont the scouters/ filmers for each team have their own section JUST for them < reserved (or on the front row) and not let anyone else sit there.... so others aren't in their way.. i think that would be fair for both teams..
I think it would be good to have sections for scouters/filmers, but a few disadvantages might result:
- This year, depending on how you scout, that's 6 scouts per team.. 84 teams/division.. that's 500+ seats needed just for scouts (potentially). For our team, we have additional 2 people handing out/retrieving sheets every match and organizing.
- Our scouts take turns, that would be a lot of up/down, moving around action in those rows rather than being able to hand over to their teammate.
- Scouts won't be sitting with their team
Whether these weigh out the advantages, don't know.
I am guilty of grumbling and asking people to sit down when they're in front of us, especially when they take up multiple rows across an entire lower section, then everyone up to the top row needs to stand to see. Perhaps consider not stretching across an entire row, but maybe half and going up. That gives opportunity for other teams to sit a little closer, and perhaps half the section not needing to stand. But I understand the enthusiasm, they want to cheer, and we don't want to stifle it. I am one that is always aware of people around me, and I hate the feeling of being in their way. That's just my personality though and don't expect anyone else to be the same. It does make it harder when there are signs and noisemakers, and other stuff that's being held up in front, which makes it harder yet for people to see over.
I would ask, that if you are going to stand for your matches, that you not hold anything over your heads. I also ask that if someone does ask you to sit down, don't cop an attitude, shrug your shoulders, ignore them, or say.... "oh well, that's just the way it is, deal with it, we're not gonna move for you" and act all righteous. I have personally witnessed this by mentors on teams at various events... That's rude. Least you can do is explain the situation nicely. Just be aware of your surroundings. If you're the only 1-2 people standing in a sea of hundreds, sit down. If you're standing in an aisle or stairway, squat. If you're standing up in the front row (and nobody else is), sit. It's surprising how much 1-2 people can block.
Societal norms have been established which dictate that the "standing ovation" is somehow more respectful than clapping and cheering while sitting down. I tend to say pish-posh to stuff like this. If the most important thing to a team who just won a major award is to look up in the stands and count how many people are standing up in the seats to congratulate them, that's pretty sad - they should be jumping and cheering and celebrating their victory with their teammates. Now the CLAPPING AND CHEERING of the crowd - that's a truly great thing that can further fuel the emotions of the winners and make it a truly memorable experience - that's the key part of being respectful at these competitions.
The point is not necessarily to have teams looking up counting who's standing for them... It's people's way of showing great respect for each and every award winner, because every award is just as important as the next... not just the "top prize". But, I'll repeat something I said in the other thread... I was shocked at the lack of applause that occurred during closing ceremonies. If you don't want to stand-O, fine. But clap for cryin' out loud!
Travis Hoffman
28-04-2005, 13:41
My personal preference is that we try to separate the act of cheering from the act of standing. The conflict here between those with differing viewpoints is being caused by the act of people standing up and blocking the view of those behind them. I think everyone agrees that cheering and shouting and waving your hands and clapping are all healthy and GP activities. However, whether it is done with the best of intentions, considerate or inconsiderate, rehearsed or unrehearsed, standing up frequently DOES cause problems at times for people sitting behind you. Societal norms have been established which dictate that the "standing ovation" is somehow more respectful than clapping and cheering while sitting down. I tend to say pish-posh to stuff like this. If the most important thing to a team who just won a major award is to look up in the stands and count how many people are standing up in the seats to congratulate them, that's pretty sad - they should be jumping and cheering and celebrating their victory with their teammates. Now the CLAPPING AND CHEERING of the crowd - that's a truly great thing that can further fuel the emotions of the winners and make it a truly memorable experience - that's the key part of being respectful at these competitions.
When my team won the Regional Chairman's Award in Cleveland, and I went down to receive my medal with the rest of the team, I do not recall looking up into the seats to SEE if the rest of the teams were standing up and congratulating us; what I do recall is HEARING their cheers and very much appreciating those. I would not have personally been offended if every single person in the audience had stayed seated. If the arena remained quiet after the winning announcement was made, however, I certainly would have felt embarrassed and disappointed. Catch my drift?
While I completely understand why many people do it, I sometimes find myself rolling my eyes a bit watching teams stand up and sit down in unison each and every time an award is announced. Some might say the more you engage in an activity designed to celebrate and honor the best of the best, the more you diminish its significance. I personally possess just as much respect and admiration for an award-winning team whether I am standing up or sitting on my keister. I also tend to reserve my standing O's for the ultimate winners at an event (Chairman's, Champion, Engineering Inspiration). However, others have a right to think differently, and their methods should be respected, not ridiculed. I just wanted to present this alternate viewpoint as food for thought. For those who do like to stand up frequently, perhaps you can give a bit more thought to the concerns of the people behind you. As rational people living in a GP culture, I'm sure there's a good compromise we can all find together.
LOL why is this even a major point of debate? We must be bored. It's Spring! Let's all take a break, go outside, and do something non-robotic for one day.
Alex Cormier
28-04-2005, 13:57
I find that people tend to stand up at the most inopportune times, such as when a robot is about to cap a goal or when the scores are displayed. If you are smart enough to build a robot (although on some teams the kids dont), then you are smart enough to realize when to sit down. Some other teams had an OD on stupid pills or something because they were not courteous at all to anyone sitting behind them or anyone. Ive even told a few people to get out of the way when i was trying to walk down the stairs in the arena, its as if peoples minds freeze during matches, in a time of stupidity or not.
i am trying to make this nicely said. Do you or anyone ever get excited that your team will win a match that is important? We had one guy ask if we couldn't come down to the front and cheer our team on any more Friday and i was in shock! So when the robot is about to stack, i don't see how you can get excited. you spent 6 weeks for the robot to do this one function and all you can do is sit down and clap about it?
Clark Gilbert
28-04-2005, 13:58
I find that people tend to stand up at the most inopportune times, such as when a robot is about to cap a goal or when the scores are displayed. If you are smart enough to build a robot (although on some teams the kids dont), then you are smart enough to realize when to sit down. Some other teams had an OD on stupid pills or something because they were not courteous at all to anyone sitting behind them or anyone. Ive even told a few people to get out of the way when i was trying to walk down the stairs in the arena, its as if peoples minds freeze during matches, in a time of stupidity or not.
If you too are smart enough to build a robot, aren't you smart enough to realize that if you stand up and cheer too you can see above them?
I think standing and cheering for anything and everything is great. Sure there may be people who can't see around you, but you do have an opportunity to get up and move, since you didn't pay for your seat. While I was in FIRST for my 4 years we were always encouraged to stand up and cheer for other teams, heck most of the time we have very good friends on those teams. While in high school I had never attended a college level sports event, now that I'm a sophomore in college I can say that I've attended 95% of all of my school's (Purdue) football and basketball games. I can not remember once sitting down during the entire length of a football game, and only recently during basketball season (due to a very disturbed student section).
If you're not willing to show your support for other teams by standing up and applauding/cheering during the awards and matches what is the point of even showing up? You can stay at home and watch the matches over NASA TV in a very comfortable chair.
The Lucas
28-04-2005, 14:43
During the awards ceremony, giving a standing ovation for the team receiving the award is a courteous thing to do. You are showing your respect for the team receiving the award. Even if you don't personally know that team (among 341 different teams), the judges choose to recognize them for their efforts and they should be worthy of your respect. We all know how much effort is required just to compete in FIRST and that alone is worthy of a standing ovation in my book.
Having said that, it is not disrespectful to stay in your seat and remain silent during the award presentation. That is your personal choice. Not everyone on my team chooses to stand and cheer, but I'd say over 90% does. If you are going to choose to sit down I don't understand why you are complaining that you can't see. What is there to see? Two people from the team walk down to the stage and get handed a plastic trophy. There is nothing visually spectacular about that (except for the Chairman’s fireworks). What is spectacular about that is the feeling that team gets while accepting an award in front of a stadium full of cheering peers. How can you care so much about seeing this visually unimpressive award presentation that you become irritated when your view is obstructed, but not care enough about it to stand up and join in the cheering? You can't have it both ways.
Matches are a different story. It is important that everyone be able to see the field during matches. There are many people (spectators and scouts) that need to see a match, but don't have a rooting interest. Please sit down after the team interdictions. After the match is dead time. The DJ pumps in dance music, because they want you to standup and dance to fill the dead time.
Another thing that I have yet to see anyone address is moving through the stands during matches. Please wait till the current match is over before moving in or out of the stands. I am guilty of this myself. When you are rushing back to the pits (or somewhere else), it is very easy to forget that everyone else is watching the match and you are walking in front of them. If we make a conscious effort we can stop ourselves from doing this. Matches are only 2 min and 15 sec long and can be quite entertaining if you sit down and watch them before leaving.
I observed your team at the championship with a certain degree of envy as our team sat in the stands with little enthusiasm. Your team spirit seemed genuine and unrehearsed; everyone was enjoying themselves. You provided a great role model for other teams.
It is genuine. We cheer like crazy whenever do something successful in the workshop. However, the MOE cheer is rehearsed. We teach that to the rookies in thier first week. I've probably done the MOE cheer a thousand or so times in my five years. It is second nature. Also, we ocassionally have Cha Cha slide breaks during the build season. :D
Josh Hambright
28-04-2005, 14:44
As someone who is guilty of all of the above mentioned activities (standing, cheering, clapping, dancing, waving signs, other forms of spirit) I must say that it is one of my favorite parts of FIRST. There is nothing like the feeling of seeing people cheer for your team or for you or for someone else. Its that spirit of comradery and that commond RECOGNITION of our acomplishments that really makes going to competitions amazing.
I dont know how many times i have heard from people who attend their first competition that one of the first things that they notice is that everyone is cheering and screaming and dancing and its all for robots!
I dont see how stiffleing anyones enthusiasm and excitement over the performance of their robot, or their encouragement of another team is anything but detrimental to the program and to the mission of FIRST.
Who wants to goto a competition and just sit there and golf clap for 8 hours? Not me.
With that said, there are issues of being polite and graciously professional that must be dealt with. If someone asks you to sit because they cannot see. Do not be rude to them. Move to another spot or try and talk to them and work out an agreement. Or take some of the suggestions abo like not taking up a whole row so that everyone behidn you is required to stand.
And as far as the comments about going to a concert and sitting politely. I guesse i just must be going to different shows then you guys, because most of the shows i go see, dont even have seats in the venue.
I'm one of those people who would rather "golf clap" for 8 hours, I think the competitions should be relaxing, yes I have worked on that robot for six weeks, I have stayed at some strange place until the wee hours of the morning, the last thing i want to do after those six weeks is see an unruly mob cheering for a robot that they and the other 50 kids on their team built (or should i say the 15 engineers :yikes: ). Unlike other huge teams, my team is limited to only 20 people, around 6 or 7 of whom actually actively participate, so yeah, the work to person ratio is much higher on our team than on some other teams. The size of our team makes it so that even if we cheered, no one would hear it anyway. My team is not not spirited, we are just quiet and reserved and always has been. There are no dedicated scouts on my team, we have to take time off fixing the robot to scout and if people are standing up, blocking the game or the scores, thats a big deal.
Kevin Sevcik
28-04-2005, 15:09
Ah. I finally have it. It's pretty simple, too. It boils down to a few questions: Given the standard definition of GP, would it make your grandmother proud if you were standing in front of her blocking her view of your robot? Would you make her get up and move? Would you be upset with her if she just clapped politely and didn't stand and scream for every award?
Just things to keep in mind when you're cheering or you're judging someone else's enthusiasm.
Thanks so much for this thread Andy. I came across a similar situation, but even one step worse, in Atlanta this year. A Hall of Fame FIRST team (OK, it's 103) was standing and cheering for their own robot and drive team during a match. A FIRST Ambassador asked the team to sit because others couldn't see. A student politely explained that it was just during their match and that it was common for many teams to do this. The ambassador told this polite student that they weren't demonstrating gracious professionalism by standing. Sigh. Thankfully this is an isolated incident.
This is a team that, six years ago, had nearly no visible team spirit at competitions. In 2001 this team began an incredible transformation. By 2002, it became common for the group to cheer vigorously for their own and other teams. Do we really want to ask these teams to display less enthusiasm and less support for others? My answer is NO. Standing and cheering at appropriate times might be a minor and temporary inconvenience to some, but looking at the big picture, this is behavior FIRST needs to have and needs to foster. Cheering for others is different perhaps, but we are about culture change, aren't we?
Well said. I guess my 2 cents (worth every penny you paid for them) is: every team works hard. We put every bit of blood, sweat and tears we have into making our team and this program successful. We work for six solid weeks...and I mean work (and that doesn't even include the part outside of the time between kickoff and ship).
The vast majority of FIRST members (students and mentors alike) have played a significant role in getting their teams ready for competition. They have earned the right to get excited and have some fun, and it is that fun and excitement that will be remembered for many many years.
Stand and cheer, for your team and any others. Stand tall, cheer loud. You have earned it. If you go home with a voice, you haven't tried hard enough.
I'm one of those people who would rather "golf clap" for 8 hours, I think the competitions should be relaxing, yes I have worked on that robot for six weeks, I have stayed at some strange place until the wee hours of the morning, the last thing i want to do after those six weeks is see an unruly mob cheering for a robot that they and the other 50 kids on their team built (or should i say the 15 engineers :yikes: ). Unlike other huge teams, my team is limited to only 20 people, around 6 or 7 of whom actually actively participate, so yeah, the work to person ratio is much higher on our team than on some other teams. The size of our team makes it so that even if we cheered, no one would hear it anyway. My team is not not spirited, we are just quiet and reserved and always has been. There are no dedicated scouts on my team, we have to take time off fixing the robot to scout and if people are standing up, blocking the game or the scores, thats a big deal.
You can just move your team to the front of the stands if it bothers you that much. If the noise and stuff is a problem then wear ear plugs.
the whole 15 engineers comment is not only offensive to me and my team but to many others and that thread has just finally died down so please watch what you say about that because its really not true in most situations.
Amanda Morrison
28-04-2005, 15:19
I'm one of those people who would rather "golf clap" for 8 hours, I think the competitions should be relaxing, yes I have worked on that robot for six weeks, I have stayed at some strange place until the wee hours of the morning, the last thing i want to do after those six weeks is see an unruly mob cheering for a robot that they and the other 50 kids on their team built (or should i say the 15 engineers :yikes: ). Unlike other huge teams, my team is limited to only 20 people, around 6 or 7 of whom actually actively participate, so yeah, the work to person ratio is much higher on our team than on some other teams. The size of our team makes it so that even if we cheered, no one would hear it anyway. My team is not not spirited, we are just quiet and reserved and always has been. There are no dedicated scouts on my team, we have to take time off fixing the robot to scout and if people are standing up, blocking the game or the scores, thats a big deal.
All 45 team-bashing aside, I think your comments have quite a few holes in them.
First, you stated that this was during the awards, not during the matches.
Second, the size of your team has nothing to do with the size of your heart.
Third, since you keep complaining about how many people are on your own team, but are quick to throw the resources of others into play. Exactly where do you stand on this? There are other threads about this issue, it doesn't need to be discussed here.
Fourth, I'd like some proof that this was an unruly mob. I have yet to see any team that could be construed as a 'mob', much less an unruly one. If you were so irked by this incident that you absolutely HAD to speak out about it, especially after outside contact with the FIRST world is discouraged on your team, prove it. I'd like to see a video of this unruly mob, perhaps a picture or two, or someone else who can verify that they asked this team to sit down, and they did not comply.
Also, if you're looking for sympathy, especially based on the absolute lack of professionalism you show, you'll get none from me. This isn't "judging someone else's enthusiasm", and it can't be boiled down to that. I have taken my grandma to competitions- and I'll tell you she said she had never seen anything so energetic and enthusiastic (this after she called the rest of the family to come for Saturday's events).
Would she be proud if she knew I was calling out other teams on their enthusiasm and spirit for engineering and science, or that I was questioning the integrity and value of the education different teams give their students by their different methods of building the robot? I guess you'll have to go home and ask your grandmother, folks- mine's pretty proud of me, is yours proud of you?
It's Spring! Let's all take a break, go outside, and do something non-robotic for one day.
Heresy! How could you say such a thing? You want to put me into shock or something? :D
Kyle Love
28-04-2005, 15:41
To me, cheering your head off, losing your voice, is one of the best things to go to a FIRST competition for. It's great to show your spirit for your drive team who is driving the machine YOU worked your butt off on for 6 weeks. You worked so hard why not root for it?
Here's my opinion about cheering during awards. I think it is GREAT to hear teams cheering for other teams that won awards, even if they don't agree with who won. A lot of teams are "friends", so if my friend would win an award in a sport I would be there cheering for them, what's different with FIRST?
Let's all CHEER ON! :D
Andy Baker
28-04-2005, 16:04
Ah. I finally have it. It's pretty simple, too. It boils down to a few questions: Given the standard definition of GP, would it make your grandmother proud if you were standing in front of her blocking her view of your robot? Would you make her get up and move? Would you be upset with her if she just clapped politely and didn't stand and scream for every award?
Just things to keep in mind when you're cheering or you're judging someone else's enthusiasm.
If you find me at a competition and my grandma is sitting behind me, please take the time to kick me in the butt. I would not have my grandma sitting behind me. That would be rude. I would make sure she had a great seat, where I could sit next to her (when I was not pulled away to responsibilities), and where she would not have to sit behind someone who wanted to stand up and cheer. It would be my job to find her an appropriate seat, not inconvenience others in front of her to ask them not to cheer for their team.
Also... if someone I did not know had a grandma (or a person who had a physical limitation in getting up and down) who sat behind me during an awards ceremony, I would turn around and say to this person: "Our team will be standing up, cheering for the other teams who win awards. If you don't like this, I will offer my services to find you a better view to watch the ceremony. You can even sit in the front of our section. By the way, what would you like to drink? I'll buy."
In my opinion, I think that it is more gracious to stand and cheer for your fellow FIRSTers in comparison to obeying the people behind you who simply don't want to stand and cheer. If they don't like the view, then they can move to a better seat.
Andy B.
Ryan Dognaux
28-04-2005, 17:31
Another topic that is very annoying to me (and others) : Big signs.
Did someone say big signs? (http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/pictures.php?s=&action=single&picid=11037&direction=DESC&sort=date&perrow=4&trows=3&quiet=Verbose)
Why did I make the Scott Ritchie head? To honor his accomplishment of winning the regional WFA in a unique and creative way. The majority of people like the Scott Ritchie head, although I will admit, it is huge. Thus, it has been known to block the view of people. But all you have to do is ask the person holding the sign to put it down or move - politely. They'll most likely follow your request.
I applaud teams that make signs of all kinds - giant numbers, large banners, humongous heads. It's all good.
To me, cheering your head off, losing your voice, is one of the best things to go to a FIRST competition for. It's great to show your spirit for your drive team who is driving the machine YOU worked your butt off on for 6 weeks. You worked so hard why not root for it?
Here's my opinion about cheering during awards. I think it is GREAT to hear teams cheering for other teams that won awards, even if they don't agree with who won. A lot of teams are "friends", so if my friend would win an award in a sport I would be there cheering for them, what's different with FIRST?
Let's all CHEER ON! :D
you got it!!! This was my first year at FIRST, and I never really cheered for anything else with as much passion!!! someof you may have noticed that i was cheering even during lunch time ,but that was just because someone had just brought me my food and i was starving. One thing I did happen to notice was that some teams got super mad and frustrated when our team stood up. Or there was one team where a guy yelled at us saying that he would have to make sure to bring ear plugs the next day,because we were too loud. That didn't make me mad though,but it made me want to get our team to join in with his and cheer for their bot. Then he would see how much more exciting watching matches can be, and truely is(FIRST FEVER!!).
When we made it to Houston this year I got chill bumps walking into a massive stadium, and when i saw our robot stacking tetras it was intense. This might just be the FIRST fever I have ,but it seems contagious on team #364!!!!!!!
WHO?
RA!!!!!
By the way I would like you say a thank you to team 45 for the "best alliance parter award". Like Mr.Fava said, "That award is one of greatest awards you can get at Nationals. Sure chairmans winners get in the hall of fame, but we received something much, much greater, the respect and friendship of one of the best and oldest teams at FIRST."
(by the way that quote is not perfectly exact but it basically sums up what he told us yesterday afternoon)
Did someone say big signs?RAGE had Paris join us at our events this year. It was in response to the Paris comment made at kickoff. Some people loved her and appreciated the humor; others found her offensive (sorry about that, we didn't think it was THAT offensive or the adults would not have let her come with us); and when it was pointed out that she was blocking the view of the field in Archimedes, she was banished to the pits where she happily posed with numerous FIRSTers. ;)
By the way I would like you say a thank you to team 45 for the "best alliance parter award". Like Mr.Fava said, "That award is one of greatest awards you can get at Nationals. Sure chairmans winners get in the hall of fame, but we received something much, much greater, the respect and friendship of one of the best and oldest teams at FIRST."
Yes Thank you Team 45 (TechnoKats) we did not win any awards or even gotten to the semifinals in newton. When we were down, your award made us feel awesome about our robot and our Team. We may no thave been picked or won any awards but thanks to you we came home with something awesome.
This was my vacation for the year. I and my family spent thousands of hours and thousands of dollars to attend the competitions. I ran around looking ridiculous in striped socks and pom poms tied to my sneakers. I had a NEMO tattoo on one hand and a red bulldog tattoo on my face. I have holes in my shirts from wearing too many buttons. I didn't get my voice back until today. It was the best vacation I have had in years. And now I'm back in the basement at work, no windows, in my grey cubicle, with piles of paperwork stacked all around me, typing on a computer for 8 hours a day. I'll have lots of time to sit and relax when I get to the nursing home. In the meantime, I'm gonna have fun in FIRST.
Kyle Love
28-04-2005, 19:11
Yes Thank you Team 45 (TechnoKats) we did not win any awards or even gotten to the semifinals in newton. When we were down, your award made us feel awesome about our robot and our Team. We may no thave been picked or won any awards but thanks to you we came home with something awesome.
By the way I would like you say a thank you to team 45 for the "best alliance parter award". Like Mr.Fava said, "That award is one of greatest awards you can get at Nationals. Sure chairmans winners get in the hall of fame, but we received something much, much greater, the respect and friendship of one of the best and oldest teams at FIRST."
Thanks for the compliments! I loved painting those things...I perfected my spray painting technique! See you all at IRI ;)
Mike Schroeder
28-04-2005, 19:58
first, Travis dude, all i have to say is nonwhatnow?
second, being "a certifiable(in more ways than one) MC" i can tell you that
I LOVE LOUD,
at NJ i got a headache on Friday and Saturday from all the noise but I LOVED IT, as a matter of fact i challenge all of NJ to be louder next year, if you guys be louder it makes my job easier
now on to cheering at nats
Galileo, Netwon, and Archemides great job cheering, you guys did great
Curie was a little dead, so dead i feel the need to point out that the curie division did not deserve the awesomness that is Mark Leon and Steve Warren, they are the second best MC/Announcer team in FIRST (first being Myself and George from 11) so next year, at championships i challenge all teams to make as much noise as humanly possible i dont want to beable to hear another divisions chant from whatever feild i may be on
*throws in the penny stuck to the bottom of my shoe*
Daniel Brim
28-04-2005, 20:03
Alright, time for an anecdote! (woo)
Last year, when I went to championships, my body was falling apart. My knees were going out and I had lost 30 pounds in the six weeks prior. Needless to say, I was a mess.
Granted, I was in the pits most of the time, but when I was in the stands, I wanted to sit down and relax with my team and not have to worry about things. If a team stood up in front of me, I found that highly irritating and I tried to ask them to sit down. To do this it involved standing up, walking down stairs, talking to a mentor, walking up stairs (which was highly painful) and sitting down again. Why do all of that when a team can be courteous and just sit down during a match? If an arena was meant for standing, there would be no seats. I can understand and respect (and I did this year) standing to applaud, but during matches, it just seems like common courtesy to sit down.
My $0.02
-Daniel
Guilty as charged. And I assure you, if I am in the stands, I will be standing up, screaming my voice away every time my team is on the field. You will also find me standing for award winners and exemplary competitiors - they've earned my respect and standing for them is the least I can do to show it.
I worked field reset at NJ and I can tell you, the drive teams hear it when their teams cheer for them, and it is devastatingly quiet when the teams are not cheering. IMHO, drivers and human players have tough jobs and can use all the support you can give them.
A "fable": two years ago , there was a team which didn't cheer. It was a big, established team with good funding, plenty of mentors and a good robot. They did not cheer for anyone, not even their own team. Their members didn't sit together - in fact you rarely saw more than a handful in the stands. A number of us noticed and shook our heads, feeling sorry for them that they had so little spirit. Then, last year, they got "religion". They sat/stood together, cheered loudly for their team and others, and it was obvious that they were having a blast. They earned our respect and we even started cheering for them, too.
So, to those who would complain about teams standing to cheer during competitions or show respect to winners, I would say: FIRST competitions are a celebration of success. They are three-day pep rallies and they are for the kids. If you want an unimpeded view you could arrange to be there early enough to sit in the front rows, or maybe you could sit in the upper deck. You could ask to sit in the front of our group - we'd be glad to have you join us. Just please, don't ask these kids who have put their hearts, their blood, sweat and tears and a large part of their lives into this effort, to sit down or be quiet.
StephLee
28-04-2005, 22:20
Most of the points I'd like to make have already been made in this thread, so I have just one thing to say: Who in their right mind expects several thousand teenagers and teenagers-at-heart to be quiet, reserved, and serious for three days in a row? It's not happening, especially not considering the amount of work, time and energy that's put into those three days before ever getting there.
If people don't want to cheer at some time, they shouldn't be "forced" to; they probably have a good reason, like being tired or "just not in the mood."
For those of you who like standing up to cheer, don't get me wrong, I do that myself, but please, once the MC starts the count, sit down. Scouting is hard enough to do without having to write while standing up. On Newton, there was one team that stood up in about the middle of the stands on Saturday (several rows ahead of us) and did not sit down (the second time) until the match was started (just barely). At least two of our scouts had to stand up just to see the field until this team sat down.
There are two solutions to this problem. One: All teams that fully intend to stand as many times as necessary, please sit at the top of the stands or go to a designated cheering zone if one is available. Two: Stand up when your team is announced (or the alliance(s) if you so desire), then sit down when the count is started so others can see without having to stand up. Cheer as loud as you like, but please don't stand up during a match unless you are in the far back. (All other times are fair game for standing in my book.)
Kevin Sevcik
28-04-2005, 23:08
Most of the points I'd like to make have already been made in this thread, so I have just one thing to say: Who in their right mind expects several thousand teenagers and teenagers-at-heart to be quiet, reserved, and serious for three days in a row? It's not happening, especially not considering the amount of work, time and energy that's put into those three days before ever getting there.
If people don't want to cheer at some time, they shouldn't be "forced" to; they probably have a good reason, like being tired or "just not in the mood."
To keep the thread on track, or atleast the track it's mostly taken, I don't think anyone's actually suggested that we try to keep a stadium of high schooler quiet. From what I've read, most everyone is supporting being loud and proud. The only disagreement is between people that want to stand and cheer during matches, etc, and people that end up sitting behind them and don't want to stand and would like to see.
CyberWolf_22
28-04-2005, 23:14
I have been to Championship 3 times and at all 3 of them, I have noticed a steady decline in the amount of spirit. My freshmen year my team went to the Houston Championship event, I saw many very established teams standing, cheering, and screaming there hearts out. I knew that cheering and applauding was part of FIRST from attending Lone Star that year but I had never dreamt of the amount of energy and excitement I saw at the Championship. The last two years I have not been as impressed and have still anticipated the excitement I saw at my first championship but have been disappointed the last two years. Don't get me wrong there are still many teams that keep up their energy every year even when other teams do not. Sadly, my team is not always the one standing and cheering but every time other members on our drive team, and I do get to attend a match if we see something that we believe is exciting or an engineering achievement we stand and applaud that team that accomplished it. We also do the same for all teams as they are being introduced and we applaud when the scores are announced.
However, we try to take in consideration of the people behind us. This year at championship only 3 members of my team were able to attend (did not compete just watched and cheered) at are seats on Einstein there was an elderly man behind us who have a cane and obviously could not stand with out discomfort. We still stood and applauded the work of the other teams but tried to keep our standing to brief instances so that the man behind us, and others, could enjoy the ceremonies as much as we were. We did not stand during matches but we did clap and cheer. We stood and applauded during times when what was going on visually was not as important as the fact that the team won the award or that the speaker just gave a good speech.
eugenebrooks
28-04-2005, 23:24
However, we try to take in consideration of the people behind us. This year at championship only 3 members of my team were able to attend (did not compete just watched and cheered) at are seats on Einstein there was an elderly man behind us who have a cane and obviously could not stand with out discomfort. We still stood and applauded the work of the other teams but tried to keep our standing to brief instances so that the man behind us, and others, could enjoy the ceremonies as much as we were.
Thankyou for showing some consideration for the people behind
you who might not be able to stand without discomfort, or other
even more unpleasant medical consequences.
That is the definition of GP.
dubious elise
28-04-2005, 23:27
I have to admit, the thing that amazed me the most about robotics competitions was the insane amount of camaraderie that is exhibited in the stands, in the pits, and in the heat of battle. Our team varies by who can come to competitions. At Purdue, we sat in the back of the stands and cheered; at Midwest, we often stood in the front and danced during field repairs/resets.
I must also say, however, that there is a limit. I can understand cheering, I can understand waving banners, I can understand noisemakers (yes, ours were terribly annoying last year and are all in the hands of college students now) but I simply cannot tolerate shrieking. Yes, to the two girls behind me that I gave a stern warning to at the Championships during the Finals matches: though I do believe that you were cheering on your friends, I did not appreciate your shrieks underneath an echoing concrete overhang, and I am truly sorry that three days of sleep deprivation from myself and two teammates exploded all over you. You know that there has to be a limit when people like myself that are nearly deaf in one ear cannot tolerate the noise.
I know this is a bit of a rant, but I needed to get it out. I'm all for the cheering, that is what makes it spectacular for the people in the stands. Shrieking...my ear is still ringing.
Mike Ciance
28-04-2005, 23:46
I think that teams should cheer and, if they want, stand for all or some of the time during their matches.
One thing i personally disagree with, however, is when teams cheer ALL THE TIME. Some teams seem to cheer whether it is during one of their matches, during other matches, inbetween matches, or during random uneventful times. I just think that when you cheer ALL THE TIME it loses it's meaning. It also becomes very annoying to some of the others watching. In my opinion, there is a line where "spirited" crosses over into "obnoxious." Sorry to say that some teams cross that line.
Again, just my opinion. I know many would disagree.
Daniel Brim
29-04-2005, 00:54
I don't mind when people cheer all the time. I think it livens up the competition. Sure, noisemakers or MOE sticks can be irritating, but they enhance the atmosphere.
However, it still is a pet peeve of mine when people stand during matches. Notice I said during. Honesty, as long as I see the score, I don't care about field reset. Dance it up and have fun, but please be considerate of the people around you.
Using the Grandmother example from my previous post: Grandma sits down when the team in front of her is either sitting or not there. It hurts Grandma to stand. She doesn't want to move because it is uncomfortable. So, while sounding nice, something like Andy's post offering to help her move can be ungracious at a point. Why should a team inconvenience others into moving?
I don't mind when people cheer all the time. I think it livens up the competition. Sure, noisemakers or MOE sticks can be irritating, but they enhance the atmosphere.
No worries, the sticks are no more. but we do have our wobblies. (http://www.moe365.org/sounds.php)
Bill Moore
29-04-2005, 07:28
Sure, noisemakers or MOE sticks can be irritating, but they enhance the atmosphere.
Daniel,
I'm glad to see that you recognize the difference between a noisemaker and MOEstix. Noisemakers are just that, whereas MOEstix are finely handcrafted musical instruments made from only the finest hardwoods imported from the jungles of Borneo. :D
Since the MOEstix have been banned from competition, we have taken that "spirit" item and have recycled it into our team's "Spirit Award". An actual working pair of clapping MOEstix mounted on a wooden base. We began giving them out at the 2004 NJ Regional, and the first recipient was TJ^2 (Team 88). This year team 226 "Hammerheads" won at Pittsburgh, team 571 "Team Paragon" won at Philadelphia, and teams 75 "Team Robo Raiders" and 1108 "Panther Robotics" won at the Championships.
After the MOEstix were banned, a student was walking through our work area with the polycarbonate side sheet of our robot. As he walked, he was wobbling it to produce a noise. A low wavering sound, quieter than the MOEstix, but distinct nonetheless. Such was the start of the "Wobblies". At the Championship in 2004, we were using them in the stands, and one of the field staff asked, "Where is that water coming from?" (They had not seen or heard the Wobblies at that point.)
And, yes, the Wobblies are finely handcrafted musical instruments made from only the finest . . . .
Kevin Kolodziej
29-04-2005, 09:39
If you find me at a competition and my grandma is sitting behind me, please take the time to kick me in the butt. I would not have my grandma sitting behind me. That would be rude. I would make sure she had a great seat, where I could sit next to her (when I was not pulled away to responsibilities), and where she would not have to sit behind someone who wanted to stand up and cheer. It would be my job to find her an appropriate seat, not inconvenience others in front of her to ask them not to cheer for their team.
Also... if someone I did not know had a grandma (or a person who had a physical limitation in getting up and down) who sat behind me during an awards ceremony, I would turn around and say to this person: "Our team will be standing up, cheering for the other teams who win awards. If you don't like this, I will offer my services to find you a better view to watch the ceremony. You can even sit in the front of our section. By the way, what would you like to drink? I'll buy."
In my opinion, I think that it is more gracious to stand and cheer for your fellow FIRSTers in comparison to obeying the people behind you who simply don't want to stand and cheer. If they don't like the view, then they can move to a better seat.
Andy B.
Unfortunately, not everyone is Andy Baker. If everyone had this mindset, there would be far fewer problems.
I fall into the "Go nuts during awards, sit during matches" category.
At every event we've been to, my father sets up his video camera at the top of his tripod in the top row of seats (so its height does not block anyone because anyone behind him would be standing on the mezzanine) in an attempt to see over the rest of the crowd. Usually it works alright, but not always.
My parents are fairly able to stand if necessary, but they've been sitting with elderly spectators many times this year. At Midwest, there were a couple incidents where both students and mentors ignored their polite requests for a clear view. I believe Atlanta was much better.
At EPCOT, there were two set-ups that I remember: A) Team cheering area at the front of the stage for teams competing in that match, standing, with a raised stage. B) Team cheering area at the front of the stage for teams competing in that match, kneeling, with a non-raised stage. Option B was painful because kneeling on AstroTurf isn't fun, but the staff ensured that you knelt or you were tossed out (bad memories of incidents around me...). Option A seemed to work very well. With this in mind, I present the following solutions:
1. Reserve the front section of seats for elderly people and other video-tapers that do not have access to the field. Scouts can be to the sides of them (since they need in and out access) or behind them. I'm talking about the front 4 rows all the way across the stands...that should be more than enough space and doesn't put teams back that far.
2. Give teams access to the floor and provide bleachers of some sort against the seating wall. That way, its below the seating level of view, is directly in front of the field for clear views, and gives everyone a chance to go on the floor of the dome (its a big deal to some!).
Personally, I love the second option, but there are a few problems. Increased team movement is the biggest, but there are typically 3 minutes of dead time between matches, which is more than enough for 6 teams to move out and 6 to replace them. Maybe there can be an "on-deck" seating area off to the side behind the reserved seating mentioned in "1". Another problem is more staff in the aisles and seats to keep teams moving. Give them a seat, however, and it shouldn't be much of a problem.
Sorry for the long post,
Kev
At every competition I have been to, I have been yelled at by a team sitting behind me for standing and cheering for other teams. I understand not standing up during matches because it blocks your view -- I've said things to other people for doing that, so I understand -- I've also been yelled at for that!
But during the awards ceremonies, come on! This is the infamous "spirit of FIRST." Anyone who does NOT stand and cheer on the other teams just doesn't get it. These awards aren't easy to get, and if a team deserves an award, they deserve to be cheered on for it.
Just my $3.17 (2c adjusted for inflation, result in 1982 dollars).
Lisa Rodriguez
29-04-2005, 10:08
I am a firm believer in the "sit down during matches" theory. In the past, my team had decided to show spirit by standing the whole time, when no one was behind us. However, in Atlanta, we got the front seats, and stood up for cheering, then i promptly sat once we were done being announced, to allow those behind me to see. I was questioned as to why I wasn't standing like the rest of the team, and i politely answered that it's rude to block other people's views of the field whether or not it's our match, many people, scouts included need/want to see the match. The adults then had everyone else sit down once we were done cheering, for every match. You CAN cheer sitting down, but those behind you CAN'T see when you cheer standing up.
First wants to become spectator friendly...how friendly is it when you can't see the field?
I believe that spirit has slightly decreased since 02 (when i started) but that may be purely due to changed seating arrangement. In 02, everyone sat with their team, no 2 reps, and everyone was near(ish) to the stage, not as spread out as the dome. I also believe that less people are coming, more teams, but less people, as it costs more to travel, go to championships, etc. But there's still plenty of spirit (as long as MOE's there;) )
Either way I'm coming back to volunteer next year!!
SuperJake
29-04-2005, 10:18
I believe that spirit has slightly decreased since 02 (when i started) but that may be purely due to changed seating arrangement. In 02, everyone sat with their team, no 2 reps, and everyone was near(ish) to the stage, not as spread out as the dome. I also believe that less people are coming, more teams, but less people, as it costs more to travel, go to championships, etc. But there's still plenty of spirit (as long as MOE's there;) )
Either way I'm coming back to volunteer next year!!
We like to think the reason FIRST implemented the 2 reps per team rule because in 2002 when MOE won the spirit award at nationals in Orlando, the ENTIRE team went up to the stage. We weren't expecting anything, so (naturally) we were in the back on the risers. It must have taken 20min to get everyone down there to the stage. 2003 was the first year only 2 reps were allowed to go to the stage.
I believe that spirit has slightly decreased since 02 (when i started) but that may be purely due to changed seating arrangement. In 02, everyone sat with their team, no 2 reps, and everyone was near(ish) to the stage, not as !
Oh definitely. I started in '02 as well, and felt the Disney arrangement was better suited to cheering -- but other than that, not much for it. I wasn't in Houston, so I can't speak to that, but I think the Dome's a better setup overall than Disney.
I like the UTC regional setup versus the Manchester regional, it allows you to get right up front and cheer on your team, and the people sitting down can still see.
If they could find something like that for championships (however, with the sheer number of teams involved, I doubt it) -- it would be ideal.
I personally disliked the UTC setup, unless you were in the back,you couldn't get a halfway decent looking view of your robot. At that regional, the best you could get was a side view, which was not much help at all. Sure you could get right up close and cheer for your robot, but it was for a price: you couldnt get a good view of it.
At SPBLI, you could definitely go up and cheer for your robot and have a good view all at the same time! (I went right up to the stage, but I was always too busy to cheer, like the rest of my team).
To tell you guys the truth, I never cheered for anything. ever.
To tell you guys the truth, I never cheered for anything. ever. Sounds like a road trip to Long Island is in order! Moe, are you up for it? We'll grab TJ2 and Buzz and anyone else up this way that wants to teach Tiki and his teammates how to cheer! We'll tie them up and force them to learn FIRST cheers... oh, wait, I don't think mentors are allowed to tie up students... well, we'll have some of our spirited students tie them up, and force them to learn FIRST cheers... And to paraphrase the TechnoTicks, it will soon get in your blood! :D
Ryan Dognaux
29-04-2005, 12:57
To tell you guys the truth, I never cheered for anything. ever.
Post Edit.
Cheering is natural, there is nothing wrong with it. Try it sometime.
I know when I'm in the stands with a team, I'll stand and deliver a large amount of noise during introductions, then sit down during the match. If something exciting happens though, I've been known to stand up.
Go to a football game. Most of the time people sit, but when the running back breaks lose and gains major yardage, people stand. I see the running back breaking for the end zone analogous to tetras going slinky.
Wetzel
Al Skierkiewicz
29-04-2005, 14:49
When I stand for awards, it is because someone I know has just been presented with a coveted award. Since I apparantly know everyone, I stand for every team that receives an award. Sorry, but that is the way I have done it for almost a decade now. When my team stands with me, my friends receiving their award, have no doubt that I and my team are behind them. If you think I am doing this to be noticed, I am not. I am trying to focus attention on the team, the students and mentors, who are rightfullly receiving the award and who deserve the support of all teams.
If you are behind me when my team plays, you may see me sit down for the match or I may remain standing during the match. Sorry if you are behind me, I will sit down eventually, I am old you know. There is no one I have met in FIRST who intenetionally blocks anothers view of the field. As sure as a robot uses a battery, someone will stand during the competition. Givens do not need solutions.
There is no one I have met in FIRST who intenetionally blocks anothers view of the field. As sure as a robot uses a battery, someone will stand during the competition. Givens do not need solutions.
beautifully written statement
Daniel Brim
29-04-2005, 15:47
Well, what if the person behind you is a FIRST investor. As you've seen, new companies are investing in FIRST (like Caterpillar for example). They invest in what goes is on the field, not the back of your head. Of course, they also invest in the transformation of the youth, but I'm sure they would have a better and more exciting experience (and therefore they are more likely to invest) if they actually see the fields.
Givens need solutions if they are a problem.
-Daniel
SuperJake
29-04-2005, 15:55
Wel, what if the person behind you is a FIRST investor. As you've seen, new companies are investing in FIRST (like Caterpillar for example). They invest in what goes is on the field, not the back of your head. Of course, they also invest in the transformation of the youth, but I'm sure they would have a better and more exciting experience (and therefore they are more likely to invest) if they actually see the fields.
Givens need solutions if they are a problem.
-Daniel
First off, if someone is thinking about giving money to FIRST, then there is already a FIRST Staffer taking that person around and showing them everything. When they watch the matches, they are in the VIP suites or the VIP seating area.
Secondly, if someone from the public is viewing an event and happen to be sitting behind one of these spirited teams, that team's spirit is going to start effecting the person from the general public. Seeing students really excited about science and engineering is something that FIRST highlights all the time. Now during a match, if the students in front of you start jumping up and down while screaming... well something exciting is happening. That will draw the attention from the person behind you, they will stand up, see the exciting thing, then get all excited also. It is a form of interaction that is inherent in human nature. When excitement is all around you, you tend to get excited, too.
However as the old saying goes: there are exceptions to the rule, as demonstrated in this thread.
Wel, what if the person behind you is a FIRST investor. As you've seen, new companies are investing in FIRST (like Caterpillar for example). They invest in what goes is on the field, not the back of your head. Of course, they also invest in the transformation of the youth, but I'm sure they would have a better and more exciting experience (and therefore they are more likely to invest) if they actually see the fields.
Givens need solutions if they are a problem.
-Daniel
At Boilermaker we sectioned off a a few rows right behind the scoring table for "invited guests" , judges, and the like. There was space for about 50 people maybe, and it was always full. This included all the CAT people that were there. They had a pretty unobstructed view of the field. This wouldn't be hard to do at most places if the regionals put that much effort into attracting investors and execs and VIPs. I think those investors would like to see the excitement this brings to the cheering kids, which would make them more likely to invest... Granted, that doesn't mean people can't be polite and sit... it goes both ways...We just all deal with it.
I would think that typically these guests are targeted and invited to attend by teams or the planning committees, so sectioning off a good viewing area for them shouldn't be too hard. If it's arena style, where seating starts above floor level, even easier, since VIPs are probably allowed on ground level.
Kevin Sevcik
29-04-2005, 16:59
Since things seem to be getting taken to the extreme in one direction, I present the anecdote of team SuperSpirit. This is a really incredibly spirited team. They fill up several rows all the way across a section of seats right in the middle. They're always standing and cheering during matches and awards no matter who's up there. In fact, they're so enthused that they just can't sit down. They figure standing is a sign of respect, so they can't bear to sit down if Woodie, Dean, or a sponsor is giving a speech, so they basically end up standing during the entire awards ceremony and cheering when appropriate. Surely sponsors, mentors, and teams sitting around and especially behind this team would be completely awed by this show of respect.
Yes, yes, it is an extreme example. I just wanted to use it to illustrate what I feel is the fundamental thing here. For the vast majority here, the above example is rude, and so is the opposite example of a team never standing. The former because it's apparently completely inconsiderate of those around them, and the latter because it's not respectful of the teams, etc. So obviously a balance should be struck between your level of enthusiasm and consideration for people around. This goes both ways, of course. Teams wishing to stand a lot should try to put themselves in a position to not inconvenience a lot of people or should check with everyone around them to see if it's okay. People that don't want to stand should check with teams near where they're planning to sit and see if they're planning on standing a lot. People that don't want to take the time checking with people around them should hedge their bets and be willing to moderate their standing/not-standing activities. Granted, this is a perfect world solution, but thinking a bit about how you'll be affecting the people around you can only help. And finding out how they feel about it instead of assuming you know can help even more.
Andy Baker
29-04-2005, 17:13
Teams wishing to stand a lot should try to put themselves in a position to not inconvenience a lot of people or should check with everyone around them to see if it's okay. People that don't want to stand should check with teams near where they're planning to sit and see if they're planning on standing a lot. People that don't want to take the time checking with people around them should hedge their bets and be willing to moderate their standing/not-standing activities.
Carve it in stone. Frame it. Ship it. This is an excellent solution.
This puts the responsibility on both the sitters and the standers, encouraging friendly communication between these "Hatfields" and "McCoys".
Everyone needs to go up one post and give Kevin some rep points. Obviously, we don't all agree on this issue, but he has proposed a terrific compromise.
Andy B.
Al Skierkiewicz
29-04-2005, 17:13
They're always standing and cheering during matches and awards no matter who's up there. In fact, they're so enthused that they just can't sit down. They figure standing is a sign of respect, so they can't bear to sit down if Woodie, Dean, or a sponsor is giving a speech, so they basically end up standing during the entire awards ceremony and cheering when appropriate.
The Championship that I attended didn't have one of these teams. Please do not use "what if's" in this kind of discussion. What matters is what happened, and that was small and avoidable. A few people out of 22,000+ should not require a fix or a discussion of a major problem that doesn't exist.
Daniel, givens are things that can't be changed or shouldn't be changed. Given#1. Someone at any FIRST event is going to stand at some point during the time they are in the stands. Given #2. Someone at any FIRST event is going to be so tired that they are going to forget Given #1.
Brian Lesser
29-04-2005, 17:35
1. Every team, regardless of what accomplishments they are/aren't recognized for, deserves a standing ovation. I still remember that I gave a standing ovation to team 383 during their rookie year at the Midwest regional because I realized that they not only put the time and effort into building their robot, but also put the time and effort into coming to another country to compete with it. In the end, they won a good number of their matches. This year, they came back better than ever by winning 2nd place at the Midwest Regional.
2. It doesn't conflict in anyway with Gracious Professionalism. Heck, I'm sure Grandmothers would be proud to see their grandchildren showing respect and support for another team, regardless of whether the two teams were opponent's in matches or not.
In my opinion, if you cannot show the respect that any team deserves, whether they are a rookie or not, then I don't see a reason for you to be in this program where, as I said before, Gracious Professionalism is something to be taken very seriously.
I see a lot of talking about what is/is not GP, but has anyone thought of the etiquette angle of things? And, if someone knows what the etiquette in this situation is, could they please inform the rest of us?
Daniel Brim
29-04-2005, 18:11
Okay, I understand now Al.
What is boggling me right now is why is sitting and having fun mutually exclusive? Can't people sit down and have a good time and cheer? I don't stand up during events, but I still have a great time. I think that standing in front of someone is a little inconsiderate. There was a standing team in Galileo in the front third of the stands. They took up a whole row and blocked not only those directly behind them, but teams sitting two aisles over. I'd say half of Galileo could not see the finals. Granted, I don't think anybody asked, and I'm sure they would have sat down. So it is kind of my fault. But who knows who was sitting behind them?
Also, people are emphasizing scouts being able to see. Not everybody who's watching matches are scouts. For the people who aren't on pit crew or drive team, this is their purpose for going to events. Why should people who stand ruin it for them?
Perhaps First should put seat belts on all of the seats at every regional and every championship from now on. jk.
But seriously, what is the big deal about standing up? :confused: It doesn't give you any kind of special vantage point or any sort of voice magnifier (like anyone needs one). How about this, some people bring ear plugs and people can cheer as loud as they want with their bodies firmly stuck to the seats, the most standing can do is cause inconvinience for others. Standing should be permitted only in award ceremonies in order for teams to give standing ovations (if theyre needed).
One thing that irks me more than big signs: clappers (i mean those things that you hit together to make noise)
I have no clue whos bright idea it was to bring in those free "thunder sticks" giveaways, but it was sure an annoying addition to the huge mixture of screaming/shrieking that was already going on. Why can't people just clap with their hands, without having to be attention freaks and make louder noises than anyone else. My friend had a pair of those black "thunder sticks", but I promptly put them in the pit, in which case he forgot about them. There was one kid that was sitting a few rows back from me that was hitting an orange and a blue baloon as hard as he could, making a noise so irritaiting, it could be compared to the noise of a nail on a chalkboard. I don't thank after 6 weeks of hard work that I should have to tolerate any annoyances for the purpose of seeing my robot actually do what it was built to do.
Perhaps First should put seat belts on all of the seats at every regional and every championship from now on. jk.
But seriously, what is the big deal about standing up? :confused: It doesn't give you any kind of special vantage point or any sort of voice magnifier (like anyone needs one). How about this, some people bring ear plugs and people can cheer as loud as they want with their bodies firmly stuck to the seats, the most standing can do is cause inconvinience for others. Standing should be permitted only in award ceremonies in order for teams to give standing ovations (if theyre needed).
One thing that irks me more than big signs: clappers (i mean those things that you hit together to make noise)
I have no clue whos bright idea it was to bring in those free "thunder sticks" giveaways, but it was sure an annoying addition to the huge mixture of screaming/shrieking that was already going on. Why can't people just clap with their hands, without having to be attention freaks and make louder noises than anyone else. My friend had a pair of those black "thunder sticks", but I promptly put them in the pit, in which case he forgot about them. There was one kid that was sitting a few rows back from me that was hitting an orange and a blue baloon as hard as he could, making a noise so irritaiting, it could be compared to the noise of a nail on a chalkboard. I don't thank after 6 weeks of hard work that I should have to tolerate any annoyances for the purpose of seeing my robot actually do what it was built to do.
Oh wow. You're just going through a whole list of pet peeves aren't you?
Will this eventaully lead to engineered bots as a complaint?
”It's part rock concert, part basketball, part auto race (the pits), part awards night at the Oscars.”
- John Abele, FIRST Chairman, commenting in the FIRST Annual Report on the environment at a FIRST competition
So it seems that we are being presented with two options as audience members.
We can sit quietly and stoically, politely patting our right fingertips into the palm of our left hands like members of the royal family applauding the performance of the libretto introduction to of Puccini's La Bohéme at The Albert Hall. Emotion and excitement can be as scarce as free thought at a Lyndon La Rouche rally.
Or we can crank up the volume and let the world know that we are nerds with a pulse! When a team does well, they can be shown appreciation for their performance by a crowd that makes their presence known. Energy and enthustiasm can be so blatantly obvious that people serenely driving past Atlanta - by way of St. Louis - will stop their cars and ask “what is all the excitement about?” We can be louder than an accelerating Concorde (just not quite as pretty), and let the world know that we are having a good time!
I want to get so excited that we make more noise than a Metallica concert, get more pumped up than any NCAA final four crowd, generate more energy than the entire starting field at the Indy 500, and show more glitz and style than any silly Hollywood tour down the red carpet. The bleachers at a FIRST competition should be full of people blasting energy out of every pore of their bodies.
Given a choice, I will hang with the headbangers any day of the week.
-dave
Travis Hoffman
29-04-2005, 20:22
I want to get so excited that we make more noise than a Metallica concert...
Given a choice, I will hang with the headbangers any day of the week.
-dave
Hmm...Dave as a headbanger at a Metallica concert? I smell Heidi's next Photoshop masterpiece...:)
Or perhaps such doctoring is unnecessary - maybe Dave has some pics from back in his "wild days" he'd be willing to share with us?
Either way...ROCK ON, DAVE!!!!
By the way, nowhere in Dave's post does it say that we all need to be STANDING or blocking people's views to exude the energy he is seeking. Most of his references were to MAKING NOISE. Again, that's the key. I imagine there are certain emotionally-charged moments at an event where EVERYONE should be standing and acting crazy, but they are just that - MOMENTS, meaning TEMPORARY.
Be loud all the time! However, out of respect for others, try to remain seated unless your admiration for an award winner or speaker or your absolute excitement over an event on the field forces you to explode up out of your chair to release that energy that's bubbling over. No one's chaining you down in your seats - just try to be judicious and respectful when choosing when to stand up!
Daniel Brim
29-04-2005, 20:23
Again, what's wrong with sitting down and making noise? If people are sitting during matches, everyone can see and then people can get even more excited about being at an event?
Just because an event is exciting doesn't mean you can forget your manners
-Daniel
Ali Ahmed
29-04-2005, 20:25
So it seems that we are being presented with two options as audience members.
We can sit quietly and stoically, politely patting our right fingertips into the palm of our left hands like members of the royal family applauding the performance of the libretto introduction to of Puccini's La Bohéme at The Albert Hall. Emotion and excitement can be as scarce as free thought at a Lyndon La Rouche rally.
Or we can crank up the volume and let the world know that we are nerds with a pulse! When a team does well, they can be shown appreciation for their performance by a crowd that makes their presence known. Energy and enthustiasm can be so blatantly obvious that people serenely driving past Atlanta - by way of St. Louis - will stop their cars and ask “what is all the excitement about?” We can be louder than an accelerating Concorde (just not quite as pretty), and let the world know that we are having a good time!
I want to get so excited that we make more noise than a Metallica concert, get more pumped up than any NCAA final four crowd, generate more energy than the entire starting field at the Indy 500, and show more glitz and style than any silly Hollywood tour down the red carpet. The bleachers at a FIRST competition should be full of people blasting energy out of every pore of their bodies.
Given a choice, I will hang with the headbangers any day of the week.
-dave
Yes, yes, and yes. This is exactly how we FIRSTers should act at competition, the loud part I mean. And not only at comps, but outside in the world whenever and wherever we are trying to promote FIRST. I always get happy when teams stand for their team or any other team during the competition. We were standing for 330 and 254 during Finals on Einstein.
How about this, some people bring ear plugs and people can cheer as loud as they want
But MOE dose bring ear plugs, and we give them out to.
KORN_lover_2007
30-04-2005, 13:17
It does make me so sad when people talk bad about teams cheering and standing up and dancing. It is the true spirit of FIRST to cheer for people who have worked hard to reach a goal of theirs, plus it is tons of fun to stand up and dance between matches. A robotics competition is not something you can just sit down quietly and watch, you can't help but scream your head off and dance like nobody's watching. It is nice to sit down during a match if your team is not up, but there's no reason to not get your groove on in between. Thank you team 365 for your spirit award, that was really cool. :cool:
George A.
30-04-2005, 13:24
Ok, I've got to give my two cents. Being part of the best MC/Announcer team in FIRST ;) I can tell you that I love it when people get loud and spirited. At NJ they were loud, but they could be louder. I was really surprised that not more people were spirited at NYC when I was the MC this year. It made things really hard to get the crowd into it. In Atlanta however, granted people got tired after three days but, you work six weeks on this creation and when you see it working on the field then you SHOULD be excited.
I know my team (11) has a large group (number varies from competition to competition so i'll give a rough estimate of about 50) and they make their presence known. That being said we do stand for the entirty of our matches, but we do try to sit towards the back where people won't be disturbed.
I know that if I come home from and competition and I still have a nuiance of my voice left, my mom goes "what went wrong?"
I think Paul Kloberg says it best when he says "We all know the original meaning of the acronym FIRST, For Inpiration and Recognition of Science and Technology...but there's another meaning that Woody and Dean don't want you to know about...FUN IS REQUIRED, SO TOLERATE"
That's all from me this time.
Al Skierkiewicz
30-04-2005, 15:17
What is boggling me right now is why is sitting and having fun mutually exclusive?
I agree, I just can't seem to sit down when the tension is high or my team/alliance is playing a great match. I won't stand the whole day except as inspector unless I am far back up in the stands.
As far as etiquette, that is usually decided by someone who has decided to become the arbiter and no one argues with them. As I see it, standing is OK when your team is playing an exciting match, when giving a standing ovation or when stretching between the action. At other times it requires that one be aware of their surroundings and if it is obvious that people behind you are trying to see around/through you, standing for no good reason is not good etiquette. It is also not appropriate to expect someone at one of these events to stay seated at all times and one must expect that a standing ovation may result in temporary blocked vision. What would your grandmother expect you to do? My 97 year old grandmother expects me to give respect and recognition where due and to think about those around me.
Daniel Brim
30-04-2005, 15:30
What is boggling me right now is why is sitting and having fun mutually exclusive?
I agree, I just can't seem to sit down when the tension is high or my team/alliance is playing a great match. I won't stand the whole day except as inspector unless I am far back up in the stands.
As far as etiquette, that is usually decided by someone who has decided to become the arbiter and no one argues with them. As I see it, standing is OK when your team is playing an exciting match, when giving a standing ovation or when stretching between the action. At other times it requires that one be aware of their surroundings and if it is obvious that people behind you are trying to see around/through you, standing for no good reason is not good etiquette. It is also not appropriate to expect someone at one of these events to stay seated at all times and one must expect that a standing ovation may result in temporary blocked vision. What would your grandmother
Maybe I should have phrased that a bit differently. I meant: "How come you can't be excited while sitting down?" I agree with two of your times when it's appropriate to stand: Between matches and stretching. However, my grandmother prefers to see the matches and not the back of somebody's head :)
Al Skierkiewicz
30-04-2005, 15:41
Maybe I should have phrased that a bit differently. I meant: "How come you can't be excited while sitting down?" I agree with two of your times when it's appropriate to stand: Between matches and stretching. However, my grandmother prefers to see the matches :)
I don't know the answer to that one. I am usually pretty reserved and quiet, actually a bit shy. When there is a team I know or my team performing and it is a really great match, there is just something that takes over. Oh, I whistle and yell and end up not being able to talk much on Sunday either.
I look at FIRST like a flu, and cheering is one of the simptums. So catch it!
the_short1
02-05-2005, 12:11
2. We want to win an award too. We have pouted because we did not win a certain award. However, oddly enough, it feels better to stand up and clap for the other team who won the award we *think* we deserve. In my opinion, this is theraputic for us. I recommend trying it for other teams who think they deserve an award but believe they are snubbed.
Andy B.
yes..our team did too kinda. . at the champs .. when our team did not win the rookie all-star award (our main goal at the champs), we were quite sad and most of our team members sat down and pouted.. but i insisted as best i could to ppl to stand up and congrat team 1511, because i know they deserved it more then us, even though i wish we won it, and i know that if we were there it would feel good that other rookie teams would congratulate us), ,. it did feel better to congratulate them, then to pout over it , that we came all the way over here and have nothing to show, but its ok cuz it was an awsome experience, you gota take the positive from it
i encourage all teams to cheer for teams that win awards that you thought you might win, as really, its therapeutic, and it makes them feel good too :d
Mike Soukup
03-05-2005, 17:04
How come you can't be excited while sitting down?
I'm not sure why I'm replying since it appears that everyone is repeatedly posting their opinions without bothering to read, process, and understand the opinions of others. But I'll do it anyway.
Have you ever been to a sporting event? Football games are an excellent example. Most of the game people sit in the stands and cheer while when their team makes a good play. Usually when the QB throws a bomb to a streaking receiver people stand in anticipation of a long completion. Occasionally the team gets a much needed sack, completes a long pass, or gets a long run (some teams unfortunately accomplish these feats less often than others :() and fans all over the stadium stand to and go nuts. Sure it's possible to be excited while sitting, but it's easier to get more excited and show your excitement while standing. People spontaneously stand and cheer when they're excited; it's human nature, you can't change it.
Daniel Brim
03-05-2005, 18:05
I'm not sure why I'm replying since it appears that everyone is repeatedly posting their opinions without bothering to read, process, and understand the opinions of others. But I'll do it anyway.
Have you ever been to a sporting event? Football games are an excellent example. Most of the game people sit in the stands and cheer while when their team makes a good play. Usually when the QB throws a bomb to a streaking receiver people stand in anticipation of a long completion. Occasionally the team gets a much needed sack, completes a long pass, or gets a long run (some teams unfortunately accomplish these feats less often than others :() and fans all over the stadium stand to and go nuts. Sure it's possible to be excited while sitting, but it's easier to get more excited and show your excitement while standing. People spontaneously stand and cheer when they're excited; it's human nature, you can't change it.Yes, I'm a huge baseball fan. I only stand up when I see that 1) people behind me are capable of standing up and 2) they are already standing or 3) the game is not in progress. I think it is rude to stand in somebody's way, especially when they can't do anything about it (like I was pretty much at last year's championships).
I was at an Angels game this year, and I was dismayed at the moving traffic in the isles during the game, and that can be equated to a FIRST event. We were pretty far up the 3rd base line, so we were looking through the isle to see the game, but due to Los Angeles area sports fans arriving late, I saw about 1/2 of the game. Eventually we moved behind home plate, but I'm sure there were people who could not do so.
I understand why people make big signs. I also don't have a problem with them waving them in the stands. I do agree that they should not be doing so during matches. The same goes with standing during matches. If you go to a concert, any type of game or entertainment it is a common courtesy that you remain seated during the event. To jump up in excitement at an event when something happens is natural but to stand through the whole match is unnecessary and rude. You can still clap, cheer, show excitement, just sitting down.
We have a big uk flag which we tend to have , but say we have 4 rows of people we will try and make the lower rows hold itso not to block other peoples views. We have it because we are proud of being English and its part of our team. If you saw us at nyc, you would have seen us in union jack shirts too and that the robot had small union jacks attached. (This in part helped us win the Imagry award).
CourtneyB
11-05-2005, 11:06
We (111)stand and cheer and dance during the awards. I thinkits a great way of showing gracious professionalism.
The thing that is heard alot is that "we can't see because the team infront of us is standing and cheering?" or sumthin along those lines. Everyone should be able to see if everyone stands up and cheers liek the rest of the teams that are cheering. The best way to show that your really excited about something is to show and bring out all your engery towards it. FIRST is about fun, excitement, being gracious, everything. so why not show it?
When my sister was on the team and i would go to all the nationals with them in flordia, i didnt know what was goin on but i was cheering liek no other and stuff lol and for that matter i couldnt even see cuz i was yi hay tall with all these strangers from other teams surrounding me, but i was still jumpin and cheerin decked out in my little wildstang shirt and wildstang tattos on my face lol
-Court-
C.Roberts 1089
11-05-2005, 20:39
Team 1089 has the policy that all members in the stands during awards (which should be the whole team, if possible) must stand up and clap until the last person touches hands with the last judge. yes, sometimes, this takes a long time. but think about it.. wouldn't you appreciate it if another team did that for you if you were to win? it makes them feel good to know that the other teams out there are supporting them, and it makes you feel good because you're more of a part of the FIRST community. During matches, I don't feel that it's necessary to cheer the ENTIRE time for other team's matches, but if you cheer for exciting events, it makes it more fun for you. During your own team's matches, if you want to cheer the whole time, I say go for it! I realize some people are more exuberant about this than others, and I'm definitely one of them. This year I've been human player, so I can't really cheer for my own matches, but I found when i did last year, it made it all more exciting. So for all of you who are against this cheering... try it one time =p. Look at the situation from the other side, and maybe you'll then understand why everyone else does it! It doesn't hurt... I promise. =D
the_short1
12-05-2005, 12:05
this is also specially true for rookie teams, at GreatLakes, when we won the rookie allstar .. it felt amazing when all the teams stood up and cheered for us ..
we thank all the teams who stand and cheer.. and if everyone is standing, no one sitting.. yes.. tahst a good point.. then every one can still see.. :D good idea:
I agree with loads of people. I think that cheering for other teams is very respectful. They worked hours upon hours, days upon days, and weeks upon weeks to get that far. Why not let them know that their hard work and efforts got them as far as they did, and that they are doing well? I know that I personally love it when my team gets awards, and people cheer for us. It makes the whole trip just worth it there. There is no greater feeling to me than right when you get an award, and you hear people cheering. I also know that other people love that sense of accomplishment, so I cheer for them. One of my nightmares of FIRST is that a team gets an award, and there is complete silence. Just think, how would you feel if you were that team. I would just run out crying.
Also, with dancing and singing, I find that it is really fun, and keeps you awake with loads of energy. It's also fun just to dance and look at other people dancing just as crazy as you are. You also get to learn new dances.
About the people who complain about all of that. I believe that they should get there earlier to get seats in the front, or as someone mentioned before, sit on the outer limits of the stadium. Why should people stop having fun because a few people are being cranky and wanting to ruin the fun?
I do have a thing with the big signs. My team has them, and I believe that it is ok to have them as long as your not blocking everyone else's view during a match. We lean ours on the railings, so other teams that are scouting behind ours can see what is going on in the match. But in between matches, I don't have a problem with people waving them about. It shows that they have team spirit, and that they enjoy being there to have fun and see their hard work in use.
Sorry for the uber longness of this post.
ClintDog
31-05-2005, 21:19
Common sense can take you a long way!!! Use your judgment on things (have a little spirit) :)
Nuttyman54
22-12-2005, 01:00
maybe this is something we should put on the backs of our shirts: "beware - this person will stand up and cheer for other teams during FIRST award ceremonies".
Andy B.
I do believe Team 971 (Spartan Robotics) will put this on our shirts this year (With credit given to Andy B.)
I'm glad that more people regard Team Spirit as an important aspect of FIRST. I've been telling our students for years that "You may lose a match at the competition but you'll never lose your team spirit!" Take it from us, a team who's never won a robotics competition for the first 12 years until just last year. There's nothing worse than a moping team only focusing on winning. As Dean & Woodie say every year we're already all winners making it to the competition.
Ellery
Cheering for other teams shows good sportmanship and respect, as well as the high energy level in FIRST. How would you feel if your team won the Judges Award and only got a golf clap?
Ok, I've got to give my two cents. Being part of the best MC/Announcer team in FIRST ;) I can tell you that I love it when people get loud and spirited. At NJ they were loud, but they could be louder.
I think Paul Kloberg says it best when he says "We all know the original meaning of the acronym FIRST, For Inpiration and Recognition of Science and Technology...but there's another meaning that Woody and Dean don't want you to know about...FUN IS REQUIRED, SO TOLERATE"
That's all from me this time.
TRUE FOR NJ.
that was one of the quietest regionals i've ever heard. and i've been to many.
spirit is a good thing.
my team lacked it, and yes, sitting down is nice so everyone can see, but if you're just going to sit and watch....sit in the front. people who are waaaay spirited with manners would probably go towards the back of the stands where you can still see, but you won't bother others who are trying to watch.
that's MY two cents.
Martinez
05-04-2006, 15:50
People on their feet always have more energy. They are standing for a reason, and usually it is because they are excited, motivated and having fun. Some of my most fun moments in FIRST was standing up front with a crowd of people where i could see barely any of the field. If you have a problem with anything people are doing, be it spirit or otherwise, be sure to speak up. But try to keep in mind how important what they are doing is to them.
Edit:
The next bit is off topic but I feel it is relevent. Why do you personally stand for the National Anthem? Just think about it for a moment. Is it to show respect? Your enthusium for that nation? Because everyone else does? Out of habit? To annow the people behind you? Now, why do you cheer or stand up in a FIRST match or award ceramony. Its a personal question. Just think about it.
Tetraman
05-04-2006, 15:55
It has become a new Team 174 code to cheer for any team, whenever, and without warning. If you and your team arn't standing and cheering for your team, We will cheer for your team anyway. If you only brought 5 members of your team to a regional, we will cheer for you. If you got something awsome about your team, we will cheer. We will even cheer your chants when your team isn't at the regional.
You have no idea how much fun it is to cheer for anything and everyone. It really have a gratifying feeling to it.
dhitchco
05-04-2006, 16:30
In college, the football stadium had the "student section" and the "alumni section".
Although we're not supposed to hoard and mark-off seats, maybe each team could graciously reserve a few of their own front row seats to guests who come and sit and don't want to stand up....let us rowdies stand a row or two behind them!
If you see somebody with small kids, park them in the front. I've even taken a couple of stranger's kids and hoisted them onto my shoulders, but do so safely!
I like to cheer (especially for Chuck). I usually do that cheering thing standing up.
Usually ... when the team in front of me is cheering and carrying on in that crazy sort of way and I need/want to see what's going on on the game floor I just stand up and carry on along with them. They don't seem to mind.
This year in Philly, I stood up to allow somebody in the aisle to "pass by" and apparently took too long 'cause this guy behind me started jabbing me in the back and "asking" me to sit down ... so I found another place to be ... a bit further away ... it worked for me ... it worked for him ... :cool:
Andy Baker
06-04-2006, 10:01
It's good to see this thread revived.
Here was a impressive thing that happened at the Boilermaker Regional:
During the awards ceremony, judges, referees, and the regional planning committee all come up on the stage in Elliot Hall to shake hands with award winners. I was able to see the crowd very well from the stage. During the first few awards, some individuals would stand and clap, along with the entire TechnoKat team. No one made the team do it... it is just what we do. Then, as the evening went on, more people would stand as awards were announced.
On Saturday, the trend continued. As each award was announced, more people and even entire teams would stand and applaud. By the end of the ceremony, almost the entire crowd would get up at each award announcement.
This was a pretty cool thing. The fact that people wanted to show their support and give a standing ovation for their fellow FIRSTers shows much. It gives respect for the hard work that we all go through. It shows grace and support for a job well done. It's an easy thing to do and it means much.
Andy B.
Danielle H
06-04-2006, 10:43
Ah yes, to cheer or not to cheer? That does seem to be a rather controversial question in almost any organization similar to this one.
I'm in band as well, and our Band Director tells us, "It's always polite to cheer for other bands because it shows that we have respect for them. Some of them probably did better than us as well, so it's also a way of congratulations. For those that didn't do as well, it's a way of encouraging them to keep working hard and that we enjoyed them anyway." I fully agree with that and (if I attended competitions this year :( ) would've fully exercised that.
Now, I think a debate that comes up as well is whether or not to scream like animals for your own team. In Band, we're not not to cheer for ourselves becuase it's unprofessional. We're in view of judges and other people that determine our future in the organization and if we go out there and act like a bunch of wild and uncontrollable apes, that's not going to leave a good impression.
I understand that it's different in the Robotics world, but I still think a little bit of that logic can apply. It's all right to cheer for yourselves, just don't OVERDUE it. I go to events and see people who scream until they're blue in the face because they're group won and it kind of makes me cringe. Especially if they're supposed to be the elite of their school/organization. If it makes a peer cringe, what kind of message do you think it sends to the elders?
Honestly, I'm not trying to be the huge rain cloud and say "You can't cheer for yourselves... it's bad." That's not what I'm saying at all. You worked hard and you deserve to congratulate those on your team for their contribution. All I'm saying, is don't go overboard. You never know how that could make others feel, or what judgment they could make based on how you act in that sort of situation.
I wouldn't necessarily require your team to do something organized for every group. What if I enjoyed 395's performance while Jeremiah thought it was a little off? (Not necessarily true, just an example.) I would probably cheer more for that particular team than he would. And it's the same if Chrissy though that 1629 was ABSOLUTELY AMAZING and I thought they were average (Again, not necessarily true.) Chrissy would probably go crazy while I would show respect by cheering, but nothing else. It differs in opinion.
Well, I'm pretty sure this is longer than I intended it to be, so apology there. I hope I helped a little bit.
-Danielle
393
arabsponsor
06-04-2006, 10:44
I applaud your team for standing and cheering for all teams during the award ceremony. Like your team, team 538 has not always showed what I consider good sportsmanship. My first year, the team wanted to leave before the award ceremony because they didn't think we would get anything and they didn't care about those who did. I quickly explained that we would stay and they would treat the teams that won with respect and cheer for them. In fact the team ended up winning a Judges award that year. Think about how it would have looked to FIRST if we were not even there to accept the award. And I can tell you, each team member appreciated the applause and cheering they received when picking up the award.
Many times people feel that life is not always fair and sometimes feel overlooked when it comes to awards, promotions, and accolades. But we have to remember we don't always know what the other person has done to receive what we feel should be ours. The winner may have taken that one extra step needed to get the recognition. That person deserves your applause for a job well done.
I know that at all FIRST competitions, team 538, will stand and applaud every team during the award ceremony. They deserve the applause for a job well done. Team 538 apologizes to you if you disagree but we love cheering for everyone in FIRST.
Kevin Sevcik
06-04-2006, 12:01
So I still stick by my stance waaaay earlier in this thread that people should just think about the other people around them, whether they're standing or sitting. I figured I'd relate something that happened at LSR, though.
I was sitting with my girlfriend near the top of the stands, and a match just ended. A pair of students in front of us were standing up because they had a robot in the match and it was fairly exciting. Then they kept standing. And kept standing. Presumably waiting for scores. Then the next match started and they were STILL standing, not even interested in the match. Finally we ask them to sit down, and a few people behind us ask them to sit down. And the respond with "Okay!" in a tone conveying that we were horribly inconveniencing them.
This is where the strife between the sitters and the standers comes from. Inconsiderate people on both sides just make it a very contentious issue for those of us that just want to have a good time without annoying everyone around us.
Andrew Y.
06-04-2006, 12:59
Before robotics was started at our school, alomst 100% of students attended our back to back to back to back etc. state championship basketball team. At every game, EVERYONE in the stands stood throughout the remaineder of the game, and that tradition has followed to our robotivcs team.
We stand for our team, teams we are close with, or if theres a really really good match. It has become apart of what our team is. For the past 4 years of our teams existence, we have stood up and cheered for those we thought deserved cheering. DEFIDENTLY durring the awards. This year is the first time i have ever heard of getting angry at our team when we stood up durring our teams match.
I do see the side of thsoe who want everyone to sit, but i also believe that the spirit and atitude in the stands reflect what FIRST is all about and speaking for alot of drivers, it really makes us feel good :D .
Eventually we decided it wasnt worth the people behind us complaining and yelling at us to sit down so we sat down. But i do hope that this changes and people see why we stand.
thatphotochick
06-04-2006, 14:18
standing and cheering is understood. we always, at least close enough to that, stand up and cheer for our team and many times alliance during the introduction of the match. sometimes we'll stand and cheer during the match, but we try not to stand for the whole match. or we in the back and not blocking many to any people. i do think it is annoying for people to keep standing for the whole match. concerning awards, you SHOULD stand and cheer for the winner, showing them the respect they deserve for winning (though forcing somebody to stand is crazy and uncalled). it's only the most respectful thing to do during matches is at least be considerate to other teams trying to watch as well. if you are asked to sit down, do it and don't get angry. that's not what FIRST is about.
aziandorkess
06-04-2006, 14:39
Our team (812) is extremely spirited, and is guilty of many of the concerns that people have brought up. This year, at the SoCal regional we stand at field level, as the stands are elevated, so others can see. Past years, we stand to the side, or the sections where people aren't directly in back of us. We try to be sensitive to others' problems with our cheering or what not.
The majority of the team cheer, dance, and make tons of noise.. not to irritate people, but because we're infatuated with FIRST! Some teams have come up to us to ask us to cheer for them, or with them, and we always cheer for Team San Diego teams... so we end up always cheering throughout the competition.
To us, it's only appropriate to stand and applaud while a team is receiving an award. It's also much easier to high-five the team members that win. :)
Now, it's much easier and more natural to cheer standing up than sitting down. Cheering makes the competition so much more fun, and keeps you involved, rather than sitting down and watching.
Most of the center sections are very spirited, so most teams who like to concentrate on scouting or just watching should keep that in mind. Again, at the SoCal regional, we went down from the elevated stands to stand and cheer. I'm not sure about other regionals, but it'd be nice to have such an area. In any case, most teams that cheer are usually gracious professionals, and would be happy to accomodate, or reach some sort of compromise... as long as you approach them with your concerns.
Kevin Sevcik
06-04-2006, 14:43
Before robotics was started at our school, alomst 100% of students attended our back to back to back to back etc. state championship basketball team. At every game, EVERYONE in the stands stood throughout the remaineder of the game, and that tradition has followed to our robotivcs team.
We stand for our team, teams we are close with, or if theres a really really good match. It has become apart of what our team is. For the past 4 years of our teams existence, we have stood up and cheered for those we thought deserved cheering. DEFIDENTLY durring the awards. This year is the first time i have ever heard of getting angry at our team when we stood up durring our teams match.
I do see the side of thsoe who want everyone to sit, but i also believe that the spirit and atitude in the stands reflect what FIRST is all about and speaking for alot of drivers, it really makes us feel good :D .
Eventually we decided it wasnt worth the people behind us complaining and yelling at us to sit down so we sat down. But i do hope that this changes and people see why we stand.
Andrew, your team is now officially recognized as team SuperSpirit in my post here. (http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/showthread.php?p=377953#post377953) Please understand that neither I nor any other team here has any problem with you being as spirited as you want, nor do we mind you standing as long as you want. The fundamental problem is that you happen to be standing in our way. You say it wasn't worth the people behind you complaining and yelling at you. The fact that they had to yell at all should've started all sorts of alarm bells.
If you show up in a section of the stands and don't let people around you know that you're about to block their view for the rest of the day, it's a bit rude. They were there first. Similarly, it's not nice to do so in the middle of the stands, causing property values to plummet for 5 rows behind you. If you're going to stand for most of the matches, you could simply move towards the back of the seating where you wouldn't bother anyone in the first place. Then you could be spirited and other people could be happy. Presumably this is followed by doves all over the place, harp music, and angels descending from heaven, but all that is a lot more optional than being considerate of others.
Andy Baker
06-04-2006, 14:51
Presumably this is followed by doves all over the place, harp music, and angels descending from heaven, but all that is a lot more optional than being considerate of others.
Well... we had doves, bagpipes, and Mandy Moore in Orlando. All must have been swell down there. :)
lukevanoort
06-04-2006, 15:16
I have absolutely no problem with cheering during awards, it really makes the winning team feel good, and is the right thing to do.
<RANT> However, standing up during matches really gets on my nerves. It makes it much harder for the team behind to see what's going on and so they have to stand up, then the ones behind them. Often I've had trouble seeing our own robot's matches when people in front of me stood up and/or held big signs. It's just like a movie at the theatre, you wouldn't want someone standing up during your favorite part would you? Standing up for a short time to cheer in a match is fine as long as you sit down quickly, but if the person behind you is missing seeing the robot they've toiled over for six long weeks perform, then it isn't fair to them. </RANT>
Kevin Sevcik
06-04-2006, 17:02
Well... we had doves, bagpipes, and Mandy Moore in Orlando. All must have been swell down there. :)
Ok, Andy, the doves are obvious, and I'm totally with you on Mandy Moore, but it takes a very special kind of person to equate bagpipes with harps.
DonRotolo
06-04-2006, 18:55
I said something like "we will stand up and cheer for those teams, because we would appreciate it if they stood up for us".
...and when OTHER teams cheered for US, it WAS heard and we DID appreciate it. A Lot. So that's why Team 1676 cheers for EVERYONE who wins an award, or does well in a match. We should all be proud of each other's accomplishments, and celebrate successes together.
Don
Robocat1
06-04-2006, 19:35
For our first 2-3 years Team 379, the Robocats, just kinda sat there, trying to figure it all out.
After some success, and a little (very little) cheering, we reached a Pittsburgh Regional where our robot just wasn't going to run!
I told our team: "We can either sit here and pout for two days, or we can get up, dance, cheer, and have fun." They took it from there (and won the Sportsmanship Award, although that wasn't the goal, it was a truly unexpected surprise).
And that's what we've done ever since. It just happened. Now we encourage it because it was a good thing because everyone had a great time!
Yes, our mentors do encourage cheering for others and yes, we do teach "dances" at summer camp. Its not all about robots. I now see students who used to just sit quietly during the entire 3-day competition dancing between matches and shaking the pom-poms and towels for matches. Some students who I thought I could never get excited about anything are now the first to stand, cheer or dance! Who would have thought that!? They've been exposed not only to engineering and technology (and don't forget language arts), but to spirit and fun!
And when they're so exhausted from the day's activities that they want to be "checked in" for lights out in their hotel room before the scheduled lights out time, I know they've had a good, fun, memorable day! I couldn't ask for anything more.
We usually do try to sit at the back, but this doesn't always happen. Its then that I find myself telling the team to sit down, and I feel bad doing so. But then again, they're learning courtesy. Its a very gray line, and hard to decide which side to be on, but this thread helps to see it from others' points of view - thanks!
BHS_STopping
06-04-2006, 21:01
I'm perfectly satisfied with people cheering in the stands. In fact, I would definitely encourage it for any and all teams at the competition. The only problem that I have, though, is the constant standing ovations that teams in the stands give whenever their bot is on the field (you can see your robot perfectly well without standing up, unless of course you're sitting behind Yao Ming or Shaquille O'Neal).
As scouts, it makes our job very difficult when the backs of certain people are blocking our view of the field. For us, scouting means the difference between choosing a great allliance or lowering your chances at winning. But when the teams are being announced, it's a-okay to jump up and cheer for your own team, seeing as how there's nothing really to miss. Also, during the Quarter finals, standing up shouldn't be a problem, as we have no more need for scouting.
But otherwise, I think that this is meant to be an exciting event, and the cheering is what really livens the place up, especially when other people are cheering when your alliance is doing well. And yes, I am guilty of that on more than one occasion. :)
ScoutingNerd175
06-04-2006, 22:44
As the obsessive scouting captain of a team that has (I think pretty recently) become known for it's detailed scouting, I would probably be expected to come down on the side of no standing.
But I'm not going to. My team is fairly small, about 18 students, and like all other teams in FIRST, we work hard on our robot. After all the hard work that we do on our robot (just like all other teams) we are proud of it. We our proud of our robot, our drivers, and ourselves. When our robot is on the field we are going to stand and cheer for it. The only other time that we will stand is during awards. During awards at least, I must say that if you cannot see because a team in front of you is standing, you should stand too.
Now when the team if front of us has a match, we generally expect them to stand. When my scouts say that they cannot see, I usually tell them to stand too. I believe it was 1276 who was in the stands in front of us at BAE. When they would have a match we would scout around them. Once their match was over and the scores had been posted, we asked them to sit down if they were still standing (which usually they weren't, congratulations on your win and we enjoyed sitting near you guys (although we were mostly near the adults))
I think that it is perfectly fine for teams to stand while their robot is playing. It's only going to happen about 8 times during qualification matches, so it shouldn't be that big of a deal.
At Chesapeake an announcement was made asking teams not to stand up anymore. We complied with this, although we were upset about it. However, not all teams did. I don't think it's fair to ask a team to sit down while their robot is playing the regional finals. I don't know, I guess I can understand the other side, but I think that teams not playing should try to understand that the teams that are playing are very excited and that they want to cheer their drivers to victory (or not).
That being said, if you do want to stand and cheer for every team, not just your own, during matches, you should try to find a seat near the back so that you won't block anyone.
And yes, regional winners and chairman's winners often go pretty crazy. I know that we were cheering for a long time at Chesapeake and the winning alliance did the same thing at UTC. To be fair, we had come of off a regional, BAE, that was probably the worst our team has ever had for various reasons that I don't need to go into. To see the turn around for us between our two regionals was a huge deal. We went to Chesapeake just hoping to be picked. I believe that the two other teams on our alliance had both never won a regional before and both did not have a slot at nationals before they won. So yeah, we were excited and I bet all the teams who won regionals this year would concur. :)
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