View Full Version : RPU
After a nice rookie year (well, it's not over yet :D), i've noticed a few things about FIRST, and my job (on the team). I'm a programmer, and i've noticed that programmers seem to get the least respect. Sure, the guy who can go and build the robot is amazing, but the person who made all the little parts inside work, well, who cares about him? All you programmers know what i'm talking about. So, i've decided to do something about it. That's where RPU comes in.
Robotics Programms' Union. Yes, that's right, the programmers will rise up and become noticed! Fellow programmers, unite! We must show the rest of FIRST that we are important! We must demand respect! We need to get recognized! Plus, Dan already made us a nice logo, so you'll make him cry if you don't join :p.
Speaking about the logo...
http://24.186.144.31:81/rpu.gif
See, now you have to join! Otherwise, you'll be forced back into the programming cave, fed fish heads, and only let out to upload the new program, tell the drivers the controls, then beforced back in. It must stop now! Join RPU!!
Wow, i really need to get out more :p. Also, this is posted in the Chit Chat section to raise more awareness about RPU, cause i don't think everyone frequents the Programming Forum.
Yes, Comrades - join The Cause today! Fight the oppression! We MUST either band as one, or we die as one!
-Proud RPU Member
Coders of the world unite! We have nothing to lose but our chains! :P
--R.P.U. Member number 00000011 (0x03)
A. Leese
18-04-2002, 11:15
*sits in the corner and laughs*
BTW..i do HTML programming..do I count? prob not..I've been told by several hackers that HTML "programmers" are the "scum of the earth.." Eh, oh well..you all are psycho.
Matt Attallah
18-04-2002, 12:48
Hey, I like the ideas! I am printing them out w/ my Nvidia poster! W00T!! Man, we are such dorks, but we are the cool-dork species!! :p
Yay! We have new members! :p I think Dan made some RPU Button logos, but we just used up all of our buttons (we were making buttons for our team). If anyone wants the logo, i think we can print them out, and give them out. You need to supply your own buttons and button makers though. :D
Greg McCoy
18-04-2002, 15:48
I didn't realize that we were that oppresed :D
By the way, HTML in itself isn't really programming, but if you use Java/Javascript/Perl/PHP or whatever else, I would guess that you qualify as a programmer. Sort of :p
Gui Cavalcanti
18-04-2002, 16:29
Dude, what happened to the CODEX? :)
Maybe a joint venture between the RPU and the CODEX, to make a resource for all the FIRST programmers out there? A place to get ideas from, a place to find a shoulder to cry on... hehe, jk.
You know all the programmers on 422 will glady join. If you could, print out the logo on sticker paper, so we can all just paste them to our shirts at Nats or some such. That'd be easier than bringing along button makers, and I'd try to convince my team that our robot needs to wear the RPU logo... We'll be needing at least 4 stickers :)
Hmm, sticker paper you say.
Dan-
Where can we get sticker paper here? :D
Also, maybe we can make a joint RPU/CODEX logo. Does CODEX even have a logo yet? It's an idea, and we can get lots of stickers, and hand them out to all the programmers. then, when they're not respected, they just show off the RPU?CODEX sticker, and then the team will step back in fear :p. Power to the Programmers!
Gui Cavalcanti
18-04-2002, 17:50
Here it is... the CODEX logo. This has been the official one for a year, but I personally think it could use some spiffing up... :)
Matt Reiland
18-04-2002, 17:52
I hope you aren't all going to start a programming slow down.
LOL!!!
programming slow down or show down?
gui-
i'll be seeing dan tonight (in about 30 minutes actually) so i'll tell him to go and look at the logo for CODEX. if he feels like it, i'll ask him to make a CODEX/RPU logo. not sure if he has the time, but i'm guessing he will have some time this weekend. hmm, a cross between the CODEX and RPU logo would look pretty cool. i'll have to find dan now. :D
Originally posted by Greg McCoy
I didn't realize that we were that oppresed :D
To quote the Grail,
We're living in a dictatorship! A self-perpetuating autocracy in which us, the working class - yes, it's all about class - are constantly the butt of everyone's anger! We take the blame for anything that goes wrong! We are the ones being repressed! For example, littlefish180's comments... come and see the violence inherent in the system! Help, help, we're being repressed!!
As for the buttons, click here (http://24.186.144.31:81/robotics-logos/RPU%20Buttons.zip) to download the RPU button templates from my home-brewn webserver (psd format, 12 buttons from one 8.5x11). They're in approximately 2.25 inch form. We would make some for everyone, but we ran out of blanks to work on. I'm managed to... er... 'set aside' 5 blanks for the Glory of Cause, but 5 buttons aren't enough to encompass everyone that shall become a member of the Cause. We must band together and each contribute to the Cause!
As for the CODEX logo, I can't do anything tonight, but I'll work on something over the weekend.
I proudly rise up and support my fellow programmers. Why, the engineers job is relatively easy to understand, any monkey could do it. But we programmers, we're the sorcerers, we're not understood, but we have unbelievable power. I say we unite, and in one big voice say "It's a mechanical problem!" :)
Stephen, proud prospective member of the RPU
Programmers of the world UNITE!!!!
Greg McCoy
18-04-2002, 22:37
I don't know about that...matching gear ratios, building transmissions, and stuff like that seems hard to me. Programming is pretty easy: The computer does exactly what you tell it to.
My $0.03
Blasphemy! Computers DO NOT do what you tell them to do!! Have you ever tried programming an entire robot in PBASIC? Do you know how much you have to do to get around using decimals and negative numbers!?! Gear ratios are easy compared to this! Building transmissions, anyone can do it with the proper instructions! Programming the robot, much harder.
Not only must you check your code before you download it, you must make sure you don't use up to much variable space, or EEPROM, or any other number of things like that. Then, you must download the code, and test it out. If it works, yay, if it doesn't, the programmer had better fix it quick! Otherwise, the poor programmer is subject to, "It's the programmer's fault, how can i drive when it doesn't work?" and "Stupid programmers, can't do anything right" and other not nice things. Plus, the programemrs wind up being the people who can score the game, and on my team, drive the robot the best, seeing as I created the user interface for the robot controls! Don't say the programmers get off easy, because we work harder than anyone else!
Besides, who else has enough time to learn a whole new language? :D
A. Snodgrass
19-04-2002, 21:35
ummm....tell that to my code that occasionally blows up in my face at 4 in the morning. then again...you are right that it DOES tend to do what you tell it to...sometimes...when it feels like it.
Greg McCoy
20-04-2002, 10:03
Originally posted by Ian W.
Blasphemy! Computers DO NOT do what you tell them to do!!
Ok, this kind of confuses me if you're being serious :confused:
Have you ever tried programming an entire robot in PBASIC? Do you know how much you have to do to get around using decimals and negative numbers!?!
Yeah, and it's suprising to me that you ever have to deal with changing negative numbers to positive numbers and vice-versa that much. Can't you just reverse the polarity in the wiring?
While I admit programming FIRST robots will make you think pretty hard, programming other things doesen't get much easier. :) Just out of curosity, do any FIRST programmers use anything other than PBASIC?
P.S. Sorry if I offended you hard-core programmers. :D
Gui Cavalcanti
20-04-2002, 10:17
LOL... not to worry Greg, not all of us are as fanatical as Ian is ;)
In my experience, I've taken code that I've worked on for hours, plugged it into the PBasic processor, and subsequently seen robots do absolutely nothing I expected. Of course, they follow your instructions to the letter, but they may not get the intent... ;)
First of all, the output to the rest of the robot is done by values of 0 to 254, not negative numbers. 12 volts to a speed controller would be 254, 0 would be -12 volts, and 127 would be 0 volts. So no, you couldn't possibly just reverse the wiring and expect it to work.
The Basic 2sx stamp doensn't run on anything other than PBasic. Supposedly you can make a compiler that has the same machine-level code, just use a different language to do it in (I believe it's called Not-Quite-C), but for all practical purposes PBasic is the most effective route to go. Besides, the default program to run the RC is written in PBasic, and that contians a lot of instructions you can't get rid of without causing the RC to stop functioning.
I personally use C++ and Java, but neither has any practical use for FIRST robots :)
I think this thread is all in good fun, Greg, don't worry. Haven't other programmers been the butt of any jokes? :)
Well, out of first I know C/C++, perl, scheme, and sometimes I do a little html w/ javascript but I really hate that :)
Stephen
Greg McCoy
20-04-2002, 11:28
Originally posted by Gui Cavalcanti
First of all, the output to the rest of the robot is done by values of 0 to 254, not negative numbers. 12 volts to a speed controller would be 254, 0 would be -12 volts, and 127 would be 0 volts. So no, you couldn't possibly just reverse the wiring and expect it to work.
What I ment was to reverse the polarity from the Victor/Spike to the motor, not on the PWM cable. Sorry to not make this clear.
My question about what other programming languages was also not ment to just apply to FIRST robots either.
The point I was trying to make (and I guess I didn't make it very well) was that the BASIC Stamp processes what you told it to do exactly as you told it to do it. You may not have really wanted it to do that, but that's what you told it to do. It takes a pretty logically-oriented mind to program well, and the more logic you are the better. :)
It's hard to tell what people actually mean on any message board, because you are just stuck with the words, not the "voice" behind them :)
A. Snodgrass
20-04-2002, 12:26
Yep I do, C++ and some java because that is what the beginning programming classes all computer science majors are required to take are in plus some other languages.
Originally posted by srawls
Well, out of first I know C/C++, perl, scheme, and sometimes I do a little html w/ javascript....
scheme! lol, YES! I remember I took a summer course that was basically an intro to programming a while back, and for some reason, they taught us that language. Didn't think it still existed, hehe
As for the C++/Java stuff, yeah, in 2 years, the AP Comp Sci exam is gonna be in java rather than C++. I'm taking AP CompSci next year, so I'm going to 5 it with C++ (they only begin teaching Java in regular comp sci next year, so I missed out on that =/ ). However, my school also offers a two-year Cisco Networking class. I'm definately taking that next year so that I can have my CCNA right out of high school :D :D
yay for CCNA's!! then you can have a better job at college. :D
about flipping wires from victor to motor...
what if you're taking a fraction of the speed (like cutting speed in half)? how to rewire that? exactly, you can do it in software, or redo the drive train. :p
i also know/use C++, and hopefully this summer, a bit of Java. then, i'm taking the same CISCO course that dan is (doesn't our school rock?). should be fun :D
our school doesn't even offer ap comp sci. i'm taking the test this year, without having even taken the class. we go to a governers school, though, that has comp sci classes, so it's all good. the third level course teaches scheme (i'm in that now, I skipped intro, that was in pascal, and then the second level is in c/c++). it's funny that scheme is the 3rd level course, cause it's so easy. still, it has sparked my interest in functional programming languages, and I'm planning on teaching myself haskell this summer.
Stephen
Matt Reiland
20-04-2002, 19:18
If any of you go on to the field of automation you get to program real logic, Ladder Logic, in everyones favorite microprocessor the PLC (Programable Logic Controller). We currently use Allen Bradleys Logix 5000 with networks such as DeviceNet, ControlNet, ArcNet and hey EtherNet. With the PLC hooked up to full size Fanuc, ABB, and Kuka robots (which can easily have a payload of 500 lbs and all have FIRST teams) little mistakes get costly in a hurry but they are fun to watch, especially when a robot and a car body attempt to share the same space, at least the robot usually wins!!
Fanuc robots are even used in the fanuc assembly plant to build more fanucs, they literally are programmed to build copies of themselves, isn't that how terminator got started?:eek:
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