Inspired by Technokats?

[David Kelso]

Was this huge single caster inspired by the Technokats?? Remember that robot with the huge ball casters that they had a couple years ago? Vacuum cleaners (Placebo) and FIRST go back a long ways.

http://www.thinkvacuums.com/dyson/dc15allfloors.htm

[Kyle Love]

A pic of the ball drive can be found here (http://www.firstrobotics.net/03gallery/pages/0045-1_jpg.htm) .

[sanddrag]

Did you know Andy has a patent on that thing (the ball drive)?

[sanddrag]

Last I knew, it was Patent Pending. Patent Pending means that it has been applied for, but not yet granted. Maybe Andy or Mark Koors can update us on that.I can update you on that. (http://patft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?Sect1=PTO2&Sect2=HITOFF&p=1&u=/netahtml/search-bool.html&r=6&f=G&l=50&co1=AND&d=ptxt&s1=delphi&s2=Baker.INZZ.&OS=delphi+AND+IN/Baker&RS=delphi+AND+IN/Baker) :)

[Andy Baker]

Sanddrag is quick.

Kelso, that is a pretty neat-o vacuum. Maybe that is what you should use to clean your "sport court"! Then, when you are done vacuuming, you can use that ball caster as your volleyball. Party at the Kelso's!

Andy B.

[Ryan Dognaux]

Plus - it doesn't lose suction! :)

I love the commercials for those things. If I had a vacuum, it'd definitley be the Dyson Ball DC15 All Floors Andy Baker Edition.

[KyleGilbert45]

I work at a Sears store that carries this vacuum. I happened to be there when they unloaded the first one off the truck and instantly my mind said, "hmmm..that sure looks familar." I also thought the same thing about the robot transports in "I, Robot".

Bonus points to anyone that can find or has a picture of one since I cant seem to find one.

[Thelordofnerds]

i saw this comercial for this disk like thingy that automaticly cleans ya floor, it was shaped like a disk with a ball that moves it around in the middle... i though it was pretty sweet. if i am not making sense, well...don't comment...

[sanddrag]

i saw this comercial for this disk like thingy that automaticly cleans ya floor, it was shaped like a disk with a ball that moves it around in the middle... i though it was pretty sweet. if i am not making sense, well...don't comment...I know exactly what that think is. It is nothing more than a swiffer pad attached to a "squiggle ball toy thingy" It's got sort of like a vibrating motor thing inside the ball that makes it roll around all randomly. Anyway, don't waste your money on that, get a Roomba.

[mechanicalbrain]

AAARRRGHH ever had an idea and put it away for later because you thought that no one would ever think to do it.... this is one of those ideas. it seams to be happening allot to me. eh (breathing out in exasperation) oh well. I'm making a thread next weak because Ive got some robotics goodies coming in and along with the electrical work I'm also in charge of "pimping out" the robot i think you all will like some of the stuff its all PC mods that i got for cheap and work really well with robotics.

[Jeremiah Johnson]

Hm.. I see a potential problem with it standing upright when idle. O_O I hate it when my vacuum randomly falls over when I don't push it forward ALL the way. ARGH! But this thing looks sweet!
I remember that robot! Has to be one of my favourites of all time. And I also remember when, at MWR, the ball rolled out from under the robot and all the way down the ramp. I was like... "Oh NO!" but it was kinda cool. Thank God that there weren't any robots in the way of it or it may have done some serious damage. lol.

[nehalita]

get a Roomba.
yea i think my parents have that (i haven't been home yet to see it) -- they say it works well and it recharges on its own. cool stuff =)

[KyleGilbert45]

So I hate bringing back old threads, but I figured I would bring this back instead of starting a new one.

Just thought this new robot out of Carnegie Mellon University was quite interesting and it features some mechanics that I know I've seen before. :p

http://news.com.com/2300-11394_3-6104184-1.html

http://i.n.com.com/i/ne/p/2006/Ballbot_Goldfein_400x600.jpg


EDIT: Added Andy and Mark's patent again since the link above was dead for me.

http://patft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?Sect1=PTO2&Sect2=HITOFF&p=1&u=%2Fnetahtml%2FPTO%2Fsearch-bool.html&r=1&f=G&l=50&co1=AND&d=PTXT&s1=Baker.INNM.&s2=Kokomo.INCI.&OS=IN/Baker+AND+IC/Kokomo&RS=IN/Baker+AND+IC/Kokomo

[Elgin Clock]

Hmm Now that I can finally see the patent, (horray for Downloading the .tiff image viewer plugin way back when) I have a serious question for you Andy.

Seeing as that design is patented, if another FIRST team cloned it and used it in almost the exact same sense, would they get sued??
I can wait for the answer while you consult your lawyers. :ahh:

Immitation is the sincerest form of flattery?? Do you believe in that saying?

[Greg Needel]

Hmm Now that I can finally see the patent, (horray for Downloading the .tiff image viewer plugin way back when) I have a serious question for you Andy.

Seeing as that design is patented, if another FIRST team cloned it and used it in almost the exact same sense, would they get sued??
I can wait for the answer while you consult your lawyers. :ahh:

Immitation is the sincerest form of flattery?? Do you believe in that saying?


nope. Under most circumstances you can only file and infringement case if someone is making money off your patent.

[Adam Richards]

nope. Under most circumstances you can only file and infringement case if someone is making money off your patent.So basically, IFI couldn't design a system based off of it and sell it to teams, only AndyMark could, presumably if they had permission from their Delphi, right?

[Jeremiah Johnson]

So basically, IFI couldn't design a system based off of it and sell it to teams, only AndyMark could, presumably if they had permission from their Delphi, right?

As far as I know, you're correct. But what do you mean by their Delphi? Is the patent under Delphi or is AndyMark part of Delphi?

[Adam Richards]

As far as I know, you're correct. But what do you mean by their Delphi? Is the patent under Delphi or is AndyMark part of Delphi?Oops, I rephrased a part of it and left "their" in it. The patent is under Delphi Corporation. AndyMark is a seperate company unless Delphi has just bought out AndyMark to start producing consumer robotic parts for 6 months out of the year...

[Richard Wallace]

So basically, IFI couldn't design a system based off of it and sell it to teams, only AndyMark could, presumably if they had permission from their Delphi, right?From a legalistic point of view, AndyMark is even less likely than IFI to offer a product based on Andy's patent. Why, you ask?

Andy is the inventor, but Delphi owns the patent. Andy works for Delphi. As a Delphi employee, Andy has to stay away from conflicts of interest; this means he can't be involved in commercial deals with suppliers, customers, or competitors of Delphi. Clearly Delphi would have to view any firm that markets a product based on their patented idea as a (potential) competitor.

So, to sell a product based on Andy's invention, (1) AndyMark would have to get permission from Delphi to used the patented idea, and (2) Andy himself would need an exception to the restriction on conflicts of interest. On the other hand, IFI has no employees who also work for Delphi, so they would only need to get permission to use the patented idea.

All that aside, we're talking about Delphi here -- the company that has been an extremely strong supporter of FIRST for as long as any of us can remember. I personally don't think Delphi would have a problem with FIRST teams using Andy's invention. But they might have a issue with anyone except Delphi making money off it.

(disclaimer: I certainly cannot speak for Delphi.)

<edit> Re: the topic line of this thread. Of course I'm inspired by the Technokats. Isn't everyone? </edit>

[Andy Baker]

This is a pretty cool design by the CMU folks. Not only is the ball drive happening, but also reverse pendulum balancing. Kudos to them for pulling this off.

As for the TechnoKats' "ball drive" robot, here is the situation in a nutshell:

This is MAINLY a Mark Koors design. I was "along for the ride" on this patent, and gave Mark some help, having some input. So, while Richard's post above focuses on "Andy's design", I would call it "Mark's design". Mark was the main designer.

We created the design during the fall of 2002 and presented it to Delphi management (We both still work for Delphi, and moonlight as AndyMark co-owners). Delphi management immediately had us file for a patent, as Delphi's property (very rightfully so). During the 2003 build season, the team created a nifty tank drive, and Mark made a 2nd iteration Ball Drive. Both robots were shipped to the competitions (and caused the 3rd rule created by FIRST that countered something that the TechnoKats developed).

One of the highlights of the 2003 year was watching Mark go hoarse, explaining how the Ball Drive worked while demonstrating it all day long in the pits at the Astro Dome in Houston.

As I've said before, this patent is to protect Delphi's intellectual property rights. Of course, FIRST teams can create something like this, as Greg mentioned, since they are not making any money off of it. From my experience, this ball drive is not a good FIRST-competition drive base, as it has less mobility than a holonimic or swerve drive and even less traction than a tank drive robot. But... it is cool, which inspires.

On a side note... the next time you see Greg McCoy (TechnoKat alumni and current Purdue Student & Boilermaker Regional co-chair), ask him to tell you the story about how he convinced the team to not use this drive base in the 2003 FIRST competitions. He and another engineer essentially won a shouting arguement against Mark and I in front of the whole team, and he was only 15.

Rambled enough,
Andy B.

[Cody Carey]

Actually, I don't see how the vacuum and the ball-drive are related at all... The "ball" on the vacuum has an axle running through it. It is actually more akin to a very wide wheel than a ball. It first started on a wheel-barrow, the inventor put it there so that the thin front wheel wouldn't dig up his yard anymore:

http://www.core77.com/reactor/images/ballbarrow400.jpg