View Full Version : battlebots!!!
Renzorocks
29-04-2002, 19:25
I was wondering if there are any FIRST teams that are thinking or actually going to compete in Battlebots. If you already did so, how was your experience?? and tell us a little about it...is FIRST involved in ANY way w/ battlebots??? because a few weeks ago I saw their logo right after the show ended.
I know team 358 - Hauppauge Titans - did Battlebots this year along with FIRST. You could try getting in contact with 'em for some info.
Renzorocks
29-04-2002, 20:30
Thanx for the info SuperDanman
I belive the 'First' after battle 'bots is the production company or something like that and is unrelated with the FIRST we know and love. At least, I've never been aware of FIRST having any involvment what so ever.
-Andy A.
Joe Matt
29-04-2002, 21:15
Since battlebots goes against the holy Woody writ of "gracious profesonalism", not many sign up and do it.
BSMFIRST
29-04-2002, 21:49
How does BattleBots not allow gracious professionalism?
All the competitors agree with the rules and they're cool if their bot gets beat up. Outside the arena it's exactly like FIRST, everyone shares parts and helps out in the pits.
Many former and current FIRST participants are involved in BattleBots. This includes myself, the builder of the heavyweight champion, a former middleweight champion, founders of BattleBots IQ one of which is a Woodie Flowers Award winner, and tons more.
The most compelling reason for a FIRST team not to do BattleBots & FIRST at once is time and money; neither are cheap or easy but they're both hugely rewarding.
Dan
Battlebots and FIRST have a lot of similarities. I agree in the pits they have the same feel - all the teams help each other out.
If a bot get trashed people swap tools and parts to get it working. If anything the level of sportsmanship is better at Battlebots - because no-one can "throw" a game or deliberately score 0 points to spite their opponent.
Now the purpose of Battlebots is to MAKE MONEY FOR THE PROMOTERS. The purpose of FIRST is to GET KIDS EXCITED ABOUT SCIENCE AND TECHNOLOGY.
Battlebots is good as what it does and as a sideline generates some interest in S&T. FIRST is very good at S&T and not very good at getting lots of money.
Why can't we all just get along! I think FIRST should sell the TV rights to BATTLEBOTS - and use the $$$ to grow the program.
Innovation FIRST sells radios to Battlebots - the battlebot promoters know and respect FIRST - I think it is up to the FIRST board of directors to examine some way in which BB can be used to promote FIRST.
I completely agree. I've participated in both FIRST and Battlebots and I personally believe that both have the same great atmosphere. Battlebots IQ had the same feel as a regional, very small amount of teams(40 something max) and every single one of them willing to help. There is no reason why gracious profesionalism cannot be present in both competitions. Sure, in one you fight the opposing team, but you can back off. Both teams enter the battlebox knowing that their robot can and probably will break, it's not like they are unaware of what will happen. Besides, they are two different competitions and both provide great learning experiences for those involved. If anything, a battlebots team is even smaller so you get more hands on time.
-Sergio
Rob Colatutto
20-05-2002, 16:55
members of FIRST are not allowed to compete in battle bots....they really frown upon it and don't want any association with battle bots...and i agree with them, FIRST is much better
Originally posted by Nataku
members of FIRST are not allowed to compete in battle bots....they really frown upon it and don't want any association with battle bots...and i agree with them, FIRST is much better
It really isn't about which is better, you can't compare them aside from the fact that they are both robotic competitions. Now tell me - why isn't it frowned upon and why dont they want the association? Give me one good reason that can't be countered with a simple argument. They are both GREAT learning experiences. Why should it be frowned upon? I thought the whole idea behind Battlebots IQ and FIRST was the education?
-Sergio
Rob Colatutto
20-05-2002, 18:29
yes, your right about that. the whole destroying robots idea doesn't agree with gracious professionalism though....after i am done with FIRST i am going to make a battle bot anyways though...
Originally posted by Nataku
yes, your right about that. the whole destroying robots idea doesn't agree with gracious professionalism though....after i am done with FIRST i am going to make a battle bot anyways though...
You really do need to make up your mind. ;) You can think of the "game" as defeating your opponent in a fight. Theres no reason gracious professionalism doesn't exist in Battlebots IQ. Like I said, from what I experienced at the competition everyone was very helpful(In fact, I saw people from other teams helping out a poor kid that was by himself on his team). There was also a lot of good sportsmanship, no one took 'free hits' on their opponent and respected the fact that once they appeared to be KO'd they backed off. I didn't see any excessive damaging at all. I mean seriously, it was all within the bounds of the rules of the competition.
-Dallin
Rob Colatutto
20-05-2002, 18:45
i haven't seen any of battle bots IQ, where did you see it?
Right now it's just a pilot. I competed at it late march, before the National competition for FIRST. It was held at Universal Studios and it is a high school version of battlebots being produced by the same owners. You should really look into it, if you go to http://www.robotcombat.com/bbiqbots.html you can see a list of competitors.
-Dallin
Joe Matt
20-05-2002, 20:21
Notice something?
Disney is competators with Universal
FIRST is competators with Battlebots IQ
Disney has FIRST
Universal has Battlebots IQ
Universal sucke up Battlebots so they have one too and will pump moeny into IQ so they can stay at their hotels and go to their parks. Of course, FIRST will stop out IQ like a small fly.
Well, atleast as opposed to FIRST, you don't have to stay at a "Universal Hotel". I know that this was part of the FIRST rules, or you had to pay a certain ammount of money per person on the team that didn't. Really rediculous.
-Dallin
Stephanie
21-05-2002, 01:59
Originally posted by Nataku
members of FIRST are not allowed to compete in battle bots....they really frown upon it and don't want any association with battle bots...and i agree with them, FIRST is much better
not allowed to, eh? interesting...
Rob Colatutto
21-05-2002, 06:22
that is what my team was told last year....because at florida the battlebots rep came up to our drivers and asked them if they would make a battlebot
That's kind of silly. They can't say "you can't do this", it's all a matter of where you do it and whos helping you. Perhaps they wont help you, but im sure you don't need that help by now. If what you said about building your FIRST robot is true, im sure you will do fine. I think both competitions are fun, perhaps FIRST has lost a little bit of it's luster to me(due to certain things) but they are both great learning opportunities which should not be denied to the kids.
-Dallin
I had a very nice conversation with the Battlebot promoters - they seem like very nice and warm hearted people - they extended the hand of friendship to FIRST and were totally snubbed.
So they took their ball and went home and started up BattleBots IQ. So it is the violence arguement. Can someone get hurt at battlebots - yes - but you can get killed at a hockey game, or at an auto race as well. Does battlebots promote violence? Is destructive testing really violence? - you crash test vehicles for Pete's sake! If Battlebots was more like FIRST there would be less public interest.
Play the converse in your head. A lot of engineers quit FIRST after the 2001 season because the co-opetition bored the hell out of them. Universities in England that promote "RobotWars have seen a 10% increase in enrollment. Keep your eye on the bottom line.
Dean has often stressed that the purpose of FIRST is to make scientists and engineers "heros" to young people - and show that these subjects are accessible.
At Battlebots I saw many kids lined up to get the autographs of the team members of some of their favorite robots. To these kids the builders were heros. I think the FIRST board of directors is missed the boat if they couldn't figure out someway to use the popularity of Battlebots to their advantage. I think they had an opportunity and lost it - because BB was willing and eager to form a relationship and would have probably compromised on the
format of BBIQ.
Even if FIRST had strong feelings and an aversion to destruction as the goal of robotics competition - there was no reason to insult the BB people. That is not "gracious professionalism."
purplehaze357
29-05-2002, 09:30
Originally posted by Dr.Bot
Play the converse in your head. A lot of engineers quit FIRST after the 2001 season because the co-opetition bored the hell out of them. Universities in England that promote "RobotWars have seen a 10% increase in enrollment. Keep your eye on the bottom line.
i have yet to hear of an engineer quitting after the first year because they were "bored as hell"...
Our first year engineers this year are returning because they love the experience an are hooked...i dont think they were bored as hell...
Quite honestly if an engineer quits on a team in the first year isn't in it for the "FIRST experience" or the kids they are in it for some reason that is not part of the first experience...
Dean has often stressed that the purpose of FIRST is to make scientists and engineers "heros" to young people - and show that these subjects are accessible.
the engineers on my team are "heros" to me and they have inspired me to do things that i would have never thought about in the past...soo to know that younger kids feel the same way is good to hear...
-Joe Try Jr.
Joe Matt
29-05-2002, 16:44
FIRST didn't loose anything when Battlebots came around. FIRST can spread it's message in a more appropreate matter than a comedy central show. FIRST has Disney, which is larger in the TV sector than Viviendi Universal (the sponsors of BBIQ). With all the back rubs goin on, Disney will put more plublicity of FIRST and Universal will and once the ratings drop, BattleBots will have nothing to support itself.
Am I missing something? The only people putting FIRST on national TV are NASA. It doesn't matter if
Disney has bigger TV market share if they don't air it. Why don't you think they air it? Answer - it doesn't attract an audience. Why doesn't attract an audience, because the audience can't figure out how to score it - and it makes bad television. So I respectfully disagree that FIRST didn't lose anything by snubbing Battlebots. FIRST has consistently undervalued the power of TV to generate interest and increase demand.
You can say that soccer is a better sport than football because it is less violent. However in this country you can't attract an audience for soccer. Battlebots and FIRST could have cooperated, and improved both organizations. Even if in its wisdom the B. of D. decided FIRST wanted no association with BB - why did they have to get pissy? A polite well reasoned note might have been better. Why make enemies? Sorry to say that the gracious professionalism award goes to BB.
You know, I think FIRST should be more like Battlebots, since it would add new strategeryic edge to the competition.
Think about it:
You've got the goal, and your pulling it back to your goal zone, you've almost crossed the goal line, when out of nowhere 862 screams in engages a circular saw blade arm and completely rips your robot into two pieces, tossing the partially active remnants across the field with sparks sputtering out of cut circuitry and severed goal-grabbing arms flailing uselessly.
That would be exciting.
Joe Matt
30-05-2002, 19:34
Originally posted by Dr.Bot
Am I missing something? The only people putting FIRST on national TV are NASA. It doesn't matter if
Disney has bigger TV market share if they don't air it. Why don't you think they air it? Answer - it doesn't attract an audience. Why doesn't attract an audience, because the audience can't figure out how to score it - and it makes bad television. So I respectfully disagree that FIRST didn't lose anything by snubbing Battlebots. FIRST has consistently undervalued the power of TV to generate interest and increase demand.
You can say that soccer is a better sport than football because it is less violent. However in this country you can't attract an audience for soccer. Battlebots and FIRST could have cooperated, and improved both organizations. Even if in its wisdom the B. of D. decided FIRST wanted no association with BB - why did they have to get pissy? A polite well reasoned note might have been better. Why make enemies? Sorry to say that the gracious professionalism award goes to BB.
Disney has aired numerous things (A&E is owned by Disney, fyi), but don't forget that the movie is comming and probably more plublicity because of the Segway. Also, when the ratings fall, so will Battlebots, so TV is a bad thing for teaching. FIRST is doing good. BBIQ is the one that will fall once BB is off air, no word of mouth because they are used to TV doing it. FIRST survives on word of mouth and other non-TV PR.
I completely disagree with you. Battlebots IQ was filmed in Universal Studios as a pilot show. It has not been sold nor did it generate any revenues for Trey and Greg. They paid for the whole event out of their own pockets with the only intention of helping us, the students learn about engineering. Many battlebots builders put their effort into make it a succesful event by being mentors(Team Loki for me), judges, referees, and crewbots. In addition, there were many well known people as judges that found it to be a very good event to sponsor and help with. Not to mention www.teamdelta.com is an open sponsor, judge, and helper at first...they are also a well known Battlebots team. I see no reason why both Robotic Engineering events can collaborate to better teach the kids. Also, Trey and Greg are already planning the date for Battlebots IQ season 2.0, it will be bi-annual and the next competition will be some time around labor day. This one too will probably be completely funded by them. There is a large community of engineers involved in many forms of robotic events, www.secr.org is a good example. I'm just rambling now...but, I guess I feel strongly that both events are great for the kids. As far as saying that battlebots is a money making machine, I can't argue that - but keep in mind that Battlebots IQ has made no money for them as of yet. Battlebots has a contract with comedy central and has no affiliation with Universal Studios. Universal Studios only lets us use their studios to film and host the event of Battlebots IQ, two completely different events.
-Dallin
Joe Matt
08-06-2002, 14:37
Originally posted by Dallin
I completely disagree with you. Battlebots IQ was filmed in Universal Studios as a pilot show. It has not been sold nor did it generate any revenues for Trey and Greg. They paid for the whole event out of their own pockets with the only intention of helping us, the students learn about engineering. Many battlebots builders put their effort into make it a succesful event by being mentors(Team Loki for me), judges, referees, and crewbots. In addition, there were many well known people as judges that found it to be a very good event to sponsor and help with. Not to mention www.teamdelta.com is an open sponsor, judge, and helper at first...they are also a well known Battlebots team. I see no reason why both Robotic Engineering events can collaborate to better teach the kids. Also, Trey and Greg are already planning the date for Battlebots IQ season 2.0, it will be bi-annual and the next competition will be some time around labor day. This one too will probably be completely funded by them. There is a large community of engineers involved in many forms of robotic events, www.secr.org is a good example. I'm just rambling now...but, I guess I feel strongly that both events are great for the kids. As far as saying that battlebots is a money making machine, I can't argue that - but keep in mind that Battlebots IQ has made no money for them as of yet. Battlebots has a contract with comedy central and has no affiliation with Universal Studios. Universal Studios only lets us use their studios to film and host the event of Battlebots IQ, two completely different events.
-Dallin
I highly doubt T & G are in it "just to help you". Ditto for Dean and FIRST. T & G know Battelbots will fall, but getting another pilot up and running with different people will draw in the money. Dean wants us to grow up loving him so we go work for DEKA or go out and buy a Segway. The reason why FIRST and Battelbots can't work is not Dean hates BBIQ, the reason why is simple, BBIQ has a contract with Universal, FIRST with Disney. It might not seem that big, Universal vs. Disney, but did you know that you could get fired at Universal if you put Disney merchandise in you cubical at central communications at Universal.
I see more of a corperate hatred than "lets all love eachother" thing.
robomama
08-06-2002, 15:28
It might not seem that big, Universal vs. Disney, but did you know that you could get fired at Universal if you put Disney merchandise in you cubical at central communications at Universal.
would that be kinda like being a mentor on a FIRST team and being a judge for battlebots?
Dr. Robot(Alan Federman)-----
Mentor Team 255 Foothill HS
2000 National Champion FIRST
2001 National Champion Botball
2002 Finalist N. Cal. Botball Regional
Official Judge, Battlebots
just a thought...
Originally posted by JosephM
I highly doubt T & G are in it "just to help you". Ditto for Dean and FIRST. T & G know Battelbots will fall, but getting another pilot up and running with different people will draw in the money. Dean wants us to grow up loving him so we go work for DEKA or go out and buy a Segway. The reason why FIRST and Battelbots can't work is not Dean hates BBIQ, the reason why is simple, BBIQ has a contract with Universal, FIRST with Disney. It might not seem that big, Universal vs. Disney, but did you know that you could get fired at Universal if you put Disney merchandise in you cubical at central communications at Universal.
I see more of a corperate hatred than "lets all love eachother" thing.
Well to answer your post from a timeline point of view, battlebots IQ was not announced until after this "feud" started. It has been around for longer than that. To be honest, the whole universal vs disney thing isn't even a good point because it'd be more like 'Disney' vs 'Comedy Central' and that really doesn't make sense. Dean doesn't hate BBIQ for that reason - he hates Battlebots, who knows why. I dont. The point im trying to make is - they are both worthwhile competitions and it should be acknowledged. I've never really met Dean but I have met Trey and Greg, and they seem like great guys. I look up to a lot of the Battlebots builders. Including Team Loki, Carlo, Jonathan(Ziggo fame), Inertia Labs, the list goes on. They are ALL great engineers and helpers. From what I've noticed there are judges and competitors from Battlebots that are either mentors, referees, or judges for FIRST. Atleast those individuals can recognize the usefulness of both events. I think it goes alot further than a simple "disney" vs "universal" debate. In fact, it doesn't really matter, it should be up to the students to decide what they want to do. They are both great learning experiences. My battlebots IQ experience was much better than my FIRST experience due to the fact that my BBIQ team was composed of 7 good friends which also participate in FIRST and we all got a lot of machine time. As opposed to 50 members on a FIRST team and everyone crowding around the robot...just my opinion.
Joe Matt
10-06-2002, 09:20
Originally posted by Dallin
Well to answer your post from a timeline point of view, battlebots IQ was not announced until after this "feud" started. It has been around for longer than that. To be honest, the whole universal vs disney thing isn't even a good point because it'd be more like 'Disney' vs 'Comedy Central' and that really doesn't make sense. Dean doesn't hate BBIQ for that reason - he hates Battlebots, who knows why. I dont. The point im trying to make is - they are both worthwhile competitions and it should be acknowledged. I've never really met Dean but I have met Trey and Greg, and they seem like great guys. I look up to a lot of the Battlebots builders. Including Team Loki, Carlo, Jonathan(Ziggo fame), Inertia Labs, the list goes on. They are ALL great engineers and helpers. From what I've noticed there are judges and competitors from Battlebots that are either mentors, referees, or judges for FIRST. Atleast those individuals can recognize the usefulness of both events. I think it goes alot further than a simple "disney" vs "universal" debate. In fact, it doesn't really matter, it should be up to the students to decide what they want to do. They are both great learning experiences. My battlebots IQ experience was much better than my FIRST experience due to the fact that my BBIQ team was composed of 7 good friends which also participate in FIRST and we all got a lot of machine time. As opposed to 50 members on a FIRST team and everyone crowding around the robot...just my opinion.
First of all, the BB guys are good, they can get some kids FIRST can't, but your saying that T & G are litterally Gods. They are out not just for the kids, but also for some of the roalties. And don't say Universal vs. Disney isn't part of this. If Disney didn't have FIRST, you guys would be in a basement of some guy in Idaho. Universal copies Disney, so they needed their own robotics competition. The one thing I agree on is the smaller teams, sure their good for construction and such, but BBIQ lacks the going to other teams and ploting stratges that FIRST has, and that's my favorite part.
BSMFIRST
13-06-2002, 14:43
If Disney didn't have FIRST, you guys would be in a basement of some guy in Idaho. Universal copies Disney, so they needed their own robotics competition.
This whole Universal vs Disney theory is so ridiculous I have to reply. BB had the idea of BBIQ, they paid Universal to use one of their studios. This is not a case of Universal copying Disney rather perhaps BattleBots copying FIRST.
If BBIQ weren't at Universal it'd be at some other soundstage or maybe at an airplane hanger like BattleBots. It's more likely that the event would be held in the Staples Center (which Trey's Dad owns) than a basement in Idaho.
Dan
Joe Matt
15-06-2002, 16:55
Originally posted by BSMFIRST
If Disney didn't have FIRST, you guys would be in a basement of some guy in Idaho. Universal copies Disney, so they needed their own robotics competition.
This whole Universal vs Disney theory is so ridiculous I have to reply. BB had the idea of BBIQ, they paid Universal to use one of their studios. This is not a case of Universal copying Disney rather perhaps BattleBots copying FIRST.
If BBIQ weren't at Universal it'd be at some other soundstage or maybe at an airplane hanger like BattleBots. It's more likely that the event would be held in the Staples Center (which Trey's Dad owns) than a basement in Idaho.
Dan
Poor mortal. Trust me, it's there. I am a theme park junkie, and Universal vs. Disney is true and is there.
Don't believe me?
Go on Jurassic Park The Ride at Islands of Adventure, and look at the boat when you go into the carnavor place. You see the Mickey ears in the water? Now guess who's name is on them.
Michel
The Disney CEO is Michel Esiner.
Trust me, it's there.
BSMFIRST
15-06-2002, 22:07
I'm not arguing whether the feud is or isn't; just saying it's irrelevant.
I do agree that Battle Bots does not follow gracious professionalism, but I think it can give you great expirience in engineering to build a bot that with stand every other bot in the competition.
Ashley Weed
18-06-2002, 09:05
I am more afraid for FIRST than anything. Think about all the game shows that were put on TV over the past few years. One began and got good ratings, then every station wanted their own. Then people got bored watching the same thing every night of the week, and most of the shows don't exist anymore, and if they do, they have poor ratings. I hope the same thing doesn't happen to FIRST. If people start to compete in battle bots and leave FIRST that's ok. I know that there are true dedicated people who will stick with FIRST. However, the problem will be when BBIQ goes commercial and then there will be more spin-offs, and people will eventually get tired of hearing about Robotics.
Joe Matt
19-06-2002, 15:54
Originally posted by weedie
I am more afraid for FIRST than anything. Think about all the game shows that were put on TV over the past few years. One began and got good ratings, then every station wanted their own. Then people got bored watching the same thing every night of the week, and most of the shows don't exist anymore, and if they do, they have poor ratings. I hope the same thing doesn't happen to FIRST. If people start to compete in battle bots and leave FIRST that's ok. I know that there are true dedicated people who will stick with FIRST. However, the problem will be when BBIQ goes commercial and then there will be more spin-offs, and people will eventually get tired of hearing about Robotics.
You hit it on the head weedie!
The thing is that FIRST changes every year. So it's different than the same old playing field every year like in BBIQ. So when BBIQ goes public (it will, it was planned to, trust me) it will have spinn-offs (can anyone say Junior RobotWars?) and they will fall. And the one and only will stay. Kinda like The Price is Right and all of the other game shows.
Robitic combat has been around for about 8 years. Oddly enough it was started when someone tried to make a remote control vacuum cleaner with disasterous results. Meh it's too expensive to build a battlebot for me so im building a sumo robot.:) Nice and safe and not destructive.
BBFIRSTCHICK
04-05-2003, 00:54
I know this is REALLY REALLY OLD....and im sorry I had to bring it up, I could not help myself....cant you all just grow up??? my little brother and sister are better then you guys!! you sound like 4 year olds going at it!!! You would think that "adults" would be able to handle themselves better....no? am I right or wrong? ok i'll shut up now before one of you kill me!
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