Goal Scoring

[George A.]

I did a search and couldn't find a related thread to this topid...so If i overlooked it I'm sorry

I'm a little confused about the scoring in the goals...


Do you get the points as soon as the ball goes through the goal? Or do they tally the points at the end? Because I'm thinking if it's a score as the balls go through that might lead to missed balls or missed scores.

If you could help me out I'd really appreciate it.

[Cory]

The balls are scored as soon as they enter the goal. In the case of the center goal, they need to go all the way through the hoop, and down through the tube to count.

If they weren't scored real time, the score of every match would be 0, 5,10, or 25 to 0, 5, 10, or 25. All you'd do is empty every single one of your opponent's balls out of your player station, and try to get to the ramp.

The real question here is how are the balls going to be physically counted? I've heard sensors, and I've heard refs. Either way, it looks like it will be very hard to accurately count the number of balls. It's going to be very tough for a ref to count exactly how many balls are dumped into a goal when a robot comes up with a whole ton of them.

[Scott Shaw 237]

This was also one of the main questions I have after reading the manual. After seeing somepictures from Wetzel, it appears that there is a sensor/ camera on the ball corrals that will count the balls as they come in, but I dont know how much I would trust either a sensor or a ref for counting them all. Especially like Cory previously mentioned if a robot comes over and puts a whole mass into the goal at one point.

[Scott L.]

Dumping balls into the center goal might not be a real concern as it violates rule <G16>, assuming the height of the platform is no more than ~2 feet tall, and assuming the center goal is 7 feet high.

[dez250]

The balls going into the side goals and center goals are counted by sensors. They have been tested positively to count multiple balls at a time.

There is a distance greater then 5 feet between the top of the platform and the bottom of the hole for the center goal.

[gburlison]

Does anyone KNOW if the current score (ball count in each goal or something similar) will be available to the players on the field in real time. Our will they have to rely on the big display behind the field and hope that it is close.

[Wetzel]

Does anyone KNOW if the current score (ball count in each goal or something similar) will be available to the players on the field in real time. Our will they have to rely on the big display behind the field and hope that it is close.
I do not know if the players will have the score in front of them, but I do know that any field display and bigscreen would have the same data. Good question though.

Wetzel

[AmyPrib]

I believe there's accurate real time scoring visible to driveteams because the sensors are counting immediately, but I have not seen the exact placement for where the info will be displayed. If I find out, I'll let ya know, or someone else will find out.

The balls going thru the center goal will be counted as soon as they hit the top of the corrugated chute. I believe the ball essentially "breaks a beam" and is then counted. Then they drop into a "big bucket".

The counting on the corner goals - there's a lighted panel on the HP side of the corral, on the floor ramp down into it. There's a sensor/camera above it that can count 10balls per second (I think that's what I was told) coming across the lite panel.

With this game, there is no way the refs can physically count the balls being scored, as it's balls in, balls out, unlimited scoring. Sounds like there's extremely high confidence that all the necessary systems will work properly, otherwise, there will be major scoring issues. Refs cannot count the balls and the penalties in this game since it's so dynamic. The only thing you can really score when it "comes to rest" is the platform bots.

[Jeff Rodriguez]

The balls going thru the center goal will be counted as soon as they hit the top of the corrugated chute. I believe the ball essentially "breaks a beam" and is then counted. Then they drop into a "big bucket".

What if three balls are shot one right after another into the center goal. Is there a possibility of the balls jamming the hole to the corrugated tube and therefor not getting counted immediately?

[nuggetsyl]

scoring is much easier this year but how is the teams going to keep track and how is first going to count the balls going in the goals?

shaun

[BrianBSL]

scoring is much easier this year but how is the teams going to keep track and how is first going to count the balls going in the goals?

shaun

At kickoff, it looked like they had an electronic sensor system that counted the balls as they passed through.

[Cuog]

yes, and thats why there is a rule that your robot may not enter the goals with a 5 point penalty.

[Sachiel7]

I guess that means we can expect a somewhat-instant on-screen scoring system this year? Excellent... :D

[Joker[eS]]

On the bottom goals, there is a strip 3 inches into the goal, which is triggered on each ball that passes over it. On the top, I'd imagine that there's a strip after it drops down into the chute.

[BoyWithCape195]

Actually if you look in the image gallery here on CD you can see that the white strip is just a light strip and the real reader is up above that. Its a type of camera that can sense the balls traveling over the white strip.

(camera that sends data to a computer, and the computer counts? :my guess: )

[BrianR]

So will scoring be instantaneous this year, or will we have to guess how much each team has at any point? It sounds like they have the ability to give real-time scores, but as they didn't do so last year, I'm wondering if that will be a change this year.

[Nuttyman54]

last year it appeared taht they had the scorekeepers entering the information in real time, but that introduced lag. This year the scoring is done by sensors and computers, so we should get a reasonably accurate score (i hope)

[Ashley Christine]

Yeah, I have heard that there are halogen lights under the acrylic, and when the balls pass through, the camera that is mounted on top of the alliance zone over the goal area. It is able to accuratly count the number of balls that pass through I would think because of the breaks in the light. But dont ask me. :D

[phrontist]

Rumour has it (dez told me!) that it's essentially image recognition. The light just provides a point of refrence for the vision system, and it counts interruptions of that light. Rumour also has it that it can't count ten at a time :yikes:

[Ashley Christine]

I heard it can count more than 17 at a time. Or something.....

Haha, Eric is gunna yell at me when he gets on here, cuz I interpret everything wrong all the time.

Dont listen to me, I dont know what I am talking about!

[Tim Delles]

Well now comes the question of can you double score :P

I'm sure FIRST has already dealt with this issue but i have yet to hear what happens when a ball enters the goal on the floor (this would be the first time counted), Bounces out (2nd time counted) and then is pushed back in (3rd time counted). Because if it really is just a device that records when a plane is broken then FIRST is going to have to have refs watching the lower goals at all times.

Or am I missing something?

[Ashley Christine]

I dont think they will bounce.

[Billfred]

I dont think they will bounce.
Agreed. 1293 bounced the ball around yesterday, and FIRST Frenzy balls they ain't. With that ramp in place, I doubt we'll be seeing double scoring.

[Ashley Christine]

And the balls are 7" and I think the opening is 10"or 11" [I cant remember off the top of my head] so there isnt a TON of space for bumping around. and in the top goal the netting will give, so it doesnt have walls persay to bounce on.

[BoyWithCape195]

The netting is on the top goal. The scoring is done as it is about to pass down the chute on the high goal...

[Ashley Christine]

I think we should just let FIRST worry about the scoring. They will let us know whats going on. All we need to know is that it is automated, done by sensors and they are working and have worked hard to make it work accurately. :)

[Logan Byers]

Agreed. the likelihood of double or triple scoring is highly unlikely.
To clarify: section 3.2.2 states "The bottom of the opening is approximately 6 1/2 inches above the ground".
So the probability of double-scoring will be rare and most likely (and hopefully) caught and corrected by the refs.

[65_Xero_Huskie]

this was the only problem we had with the game, was how we could count them with the HP throwing them out, but it is a sensor, it would be soooo much better, thats for whoever put info in

[AmyPrib]

What if three balls are shot one right after another into the center goal. Is there a possibility of the balls jamming the hole to the corrugated tube and therefor not getting counted immediately?

I had this same question. It seems unlikely that balls will be so on top of each other there won't be any space for the sensor to detect. But the unlikely always happens at some point. Seems like to resolve that, they'd put the sensor slightly off center of the ball to detect near the edge of the ball so there will always be a space between 2 on top of each other.

However, balls won't really get "jammed" going into the hole because the hole is only as big as the ball and there shouldn't be any issues with the balls getting to the hole.

[Ricky Q.]

I merged this thread with another one discussing the same topic. The posts from that thread have been inserted in chronological order, so things hopefully still make sense somewhat.

Happy Discussing!

[BobC]

scoring is much easier this year but how is the teams going to keep track and how is first going to count the balls going in the goals?

shaun
It might be real time scoring but w/o penalties.

[AmyPrib]

Since two duplicate threads were merged, please read back thru the beginning of this to check for answers to these questions. The later questions here have mostly been answered.