Point Changes

[Leav]

This yesr in our kickoff they introduced a scoring/points rule i have never heard about nor can i find anywhere in the manual.

the rule they told us was something like this:

the winning alliance is the one with more points after penalties.
the losing alliance is the one with less points after penalties.

the winning alliance gets the lowest point of either alliance before penalties.

the losing alliance gets the lowest point of either alliance after penalties.


if this is true then say red alliance scores 1,000,000 points and blue alliance scores 0 points then after the match both alliances get 0 points.


:confused: :confused: :confused:

-Leav

[Ryan M.]

I haven't checked the rules on that, but it's basically how it worked in the past. It adds the element of not wanting to completely crush your opponent, even if you could.

One thing you could do, for instance, would be get on their platform if you are winning to raise their score (the one you will be receiving) to ensure that you get as many points as possible for winning.

[Leav]

this is NOT how it was before in our regional.....

is this how it was last year in all the american regionals?

[Ryan M.]

Maybe Israel did it differently, but to quote section 8.3.3 of the 2005 manual (http://www.usfirst.org/robotics/2005/frcdocs.htm):
The winning alliance teams will receive a number of Ranking Points equal to the un-penalized score (the score without any assessed penalties) of the winning or losing alliance, WHICHEVER UN-PENALIZED SCORE IS LOWER.

The losing alliance teams will receive a number of Ranking Points equal to their final score (with any assessed penalties).

--EDIT--
You also get qualifying points from winning, which maybe where the confusion is. No matter what the scores, the winning alliance gets 2 QPs and the losing alliance gets 0.

[Leav]

Maybe Israel did it differently, but to quote section 8.3.3 of the 2005 manual (http://www.usfirst.org/robotics/2005/frcdocs.htm):


--EDIT--
You also get qualifying points from winning, which maybe where the confusion is. No matter what the scores, the winning alliance gets 2 QPs and the losing alliance gets 0.

and qualifying points is the same as ranking points?

[DUCKIE]

No, they are not the same.

I believe the following is a correct summary… but others can feel free to correct me.
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QP's are awarded for each match... Winning alliance gets 2, losing alliance gets 0... and if there is a tie each alliance gets 1.

RP's are awarded as mentioned above... Winning alliance gets lowest UNPENALIZED score... (No matter which alliance's score it was). The losing alliance gets their own penalized score.

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Both QP's and RP's are used to rank your team for seeding/alliance selection. Teams are "sorted" first by # of QP's... Then within the "tiers" (say all the teams that earned 8 QP's) they are sorted again... this time by their RP's.

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During Finals... it's best 2 out of 3 (Using penalized scores)

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[Ken Leung]

and qualifying points is the same as ranking points?

Ok, you have the read the manual very very carefully. The answer is right under your eyes.

Here is a overview of how the qualification system works:

Everytime your team win, lose, or tie in a match, you receive 2, 0, and 1 qualification points depending on which one it is. The overall qualification points put you within tiers of the ranking system.

So any team who won 3 matches and lose 0 matches will be in tier one. And those who won 2 and lose 1 will be in tier two, etc.

Within the tiers, you are ranked based on your rank points, and that comes from the scores in the matches, the lower of the scores of either sides.

Together, the ranking system evaluate a team's standing based on how many matches they win/lose, and how much they scored during the matches.

Once the overall ranking is figured out, the top 8 teams will proceed to the alliance selection process before finals.

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Here is the in depth explaination of the ranking system from section 8 of the manual:

8.3.3 Match Qualification Points and Ranking Points

The combination of Qualification Points and Ranking Points enable the Scoring System to determine the seeding of teams at any point in time.

At the completion of each Qualification Match, each team will receive a win, loss or tie depending on the final score. Each team on the winning Alliance will receive two Qualifying Points. Each team on the losing Alliance will receive zero Qualifying Points. In the event of a tie Match Score, all six teams will receive one Qualifying Point.

The winning alliance teams will receive a number of Ranking Points equal to the un-penalized score (the score without any assessed penalties) of the winning or losing alliance, whichever un-penalized score is lower.
The losing alliance teams will receive a number of Ranking Points equal to their final score (with any assessed penalties).
In the case of a tie, all six alliance teams will receive a number of Ranking Points equal to their alliance score (with any assessed penalties).

Now, how are the Qualification points and Rank points related?

The answer in immediately in the section below.

8.3.7 Qualification Ranking

The Scoring System will use the following Ranking Method:

• Teams will be broken into Tiers based on their Qualifying Score. A Tier is made up of all teams with the same Qualifying Score.

• Within each Tier, teams will be sorted by their Ranking Score. Note: Because your Ranking Score is derived directly from the Match Scores of the losing alliances in the matches you play, it is in your best interest to support your opponents and win by helping each alliance score as many points as possible.

• If any teams within a Tier have the same Ranking Score, they will then be sorted by their Highest
Match Score.

• If any teams within a Tier have the same Ranking Score and the same Highest Match Score, then the Scoring System will sort those teams based on a random electronic coin toss.

Once the overall ranking is figured out, the top 8 teams will proceed to the alliance selection process before finals.