Uses for FP Motors? [Archive]

EricH

09-01-2006, 17:27

Teams in DC are wondering what the Fisher Price motors are for.
Whatever you decide to use them for, as long as you keep it legal. (The same is true for any motor in the kit. Just make sure you do the math to get the right one.)

Ryan F.

09-01-2006, 17:40

I'd use them for anything but drivetrain

Kirk

09-01-2006, 17:50

I'd use them for anything but drivetrain

I second that one. We have used them for the drive train before but you have to watch their temperature it is very easy to over heat them and have them motors melt down. These motors have about half the torque that the little CIM has but they are still very powerful for their size.

Mike Betts

09-01-2006, 17:57

Teams in DC are wondering what the Fisher Price motors are for.

The original use of the FP motors are for a child's motorized toy. What you will use it for is up to you.

As noted above, these are fan cooled motors and will rapidly (2 or 3 seconds) overheat and burn if stalled. This is because the fan is stopped and the internal losses are large in a stall condition...

Best of luck...

Mike

Andrew Blair

09-01-2006, 18:32

Unless something has changed this year, (sorry, haven't checked the spec sheets) the power of the CIM and the FP are only separated by a few watts.

The biggest problem with FP's is that you can't really load them till they're close to stall, or they will smoke. You must design in a few hundred to thousand safety RPM to keep them cool.

Kevin Sevcik

10-01-2006, 08:41

Last year's FPs were 6V units running at 12V. So they were a heck of a lot more powerful. This year's FPs are true 12V units. Peak Power is about 170W. Pay no attention to the guidelines document, it's listing the power input at Peak Power. About half of which the motor is just turning into heat.

Rick TYler

10-01-2006, 11:59

Kirk

10-01-2006, 12:56

Does anyone have hard numbers on the new motors yet?

All the motor specs are on FIRSTs website.

2006 FIRST Robotics Competition Kit of Parts Specification Sheets (http://www.usfirst.org/robotics/2006/2006specsheets.htm)

Good Luck
~Kirk

Rick TYler

10-01-2006, 13:07

All the motor specs are on FIRSTs website.

Thanks, Kirk. I was looking for the tech information that they mentioned on the kick-off Webcast that was being worked out by 35 teams.

Ianworld

10-01-2006, 14:57

Andy A.

10-01-2006, 15:11

The FP's thrive in conditions that require the high power in a small space and high RPM's.

They are good for things like running a ball roller system, where you need the high RPM and you can keep it running at that speed. It's also helpful that they have far and away the greatest power the weight/size ratio of any motor in the kit so packaging them is easier.

In fact, anytime you need to keep something spinning at a fairly consistent (high) speed is a possible FP use. It's not that a CIM motor can't do it, but they are probably better placed on a drive train or arm which will require more slow speed high torque operation.

-Andy A.

lukevanoort

12-01-2006, 22:05

Just a quick question are we allowed to use last years 6 volt fischer prices? I really loved their insane amount of power. Not that I think we need it per se this year, but a flywheeel hooked up to one could really... fly!
According to the rules the only FPs you can't use are '03 and '02. It doesn't say a thing about the '05 one.
<R25>Motors, pumps, and, robot controllers from previous robots may not be used in addition to those provided
in the 2006 kit of parts. They may be used as direct one-to-one SPARE PARTS for those provided if the
provided part fails or is damaged. They may only be used if they are identical to the part being replaced (note
that 2002 and 2003 Fisher-Price motors are not the same as those in the 2006 kit, and, therefore, cannot be
used).

Alekat

12-01-2006, 22:11

I'd use them for anything but drivetrain

Even with the andymark planetary transmissions? They gear them to be just lik a CIM so the only difference is s few watts right?

DonRotolo

12-01-2006, 22:13

I was looking for the tech information that they mentioned on the kick-off Webcast that was being worked out by 35 teams.
sigh... We're working on it. It's been hard to shake loose the resources needed to build a dynamometer with the range to characterize all of the motors, but we're almost there. The design is not as trivial as it seems.

Take a look in the National Instruments and DAQ forums for the latest news.

Don

Lil' Lavery

12-01-2006, 22:37

The FPs could be used for drivetrain, just I wouldn't recommend that they are the only motors in the drivtrain. If you couple their power with those from the CIM or CIM "Mini-bikes" you could produce quite a powerful drivetrain.

Doug G

12-01-2006, 23:00

Even with the andymark planetary transmissions? They gear them to be just lik a CIM so the only difference is s few watts right?

It's more than just a few watts, the CIM is 337 Watts at max Power and the FP is 172 Watts a Max Power. But with the AM Planetary or other form a gearing, you can match their output speeds. The question is really if 2 CIMs per transmisison is neccessary for this year, perhaps 1 CIM and 1 FP is enough, or even 1 CIM and 1 miniBike motor (270 Watts Max, and there's an AndyMark adapter for those now too!)?

Joe Johnson

13-01-2006, 09:32

Consider these threads that are related to how to use FP motors:

Low Cost Planetary Gearbox Source... (http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/showthread.php?t=41335)

Adding FP Motor to '05 KOP Transmission (http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/showthread.php?t=41055)

There is a lot of good information in those threads, especial the bits near this picture:
http://www.chiefdelphi.com/pics/bin/1011280697DrJoe20020117.thumb.jpg

Man, I'm a handsome devil, aren't I? ;-)

Joe J.

Tristan Lall

13-01-2006, 10:51

According to the rules the only FPs you can't use are '03 and '02. It doesn't say a thing about the '05 one.Actually, you can't use any Fisher-Price motor, unless you know it to be the exact same type. (The same goes for all motors, so that they can be classified as spares.) The 2002 and 2003 motors are definitely different from the ones in the 2006 kit, but I'm pretty sure that the 2004 and 2005 motors are also of different specifications, and therefore not allowed. It's a simple matter to check the old spec. sheets; if the model number doesn't match, you'd better ask FIRST if they'd care to issue an update allowing you to use them.

sburro

13-01-2006, 17:15

ok back in 04' I believe some teams modified the fp to speed them up. Would anyone be willing to point me in the right direction? I have searched the old docs but with no luck.

Cory

13-01-2006, 17:20

ok back in 05' I believe some teams modified the fp to speed them up. Would anyone be willing to point me in the right direction? I have searched the old docs but with no luck.

It's impossible to legally modify a motor to "speed it up". What you may be referring to is the fact that the motors FIRST gave us in 2005 weren't designed to run at 12v (Were they 9V or 6V?). Some teams decided to run them at the full 12V and run the risk of frying them, while some teams just operated them at the reccomended voltage.

That's not an issue this year, as the FP motors are designed for 12V.

sburro

13-01-2006, 17:24

It's impossible to legally modify a motor to "speed it up". What you may be referring to is the fact that the motors FIRST gave us in 2005 weren't designed to run at 12v (Were they 9V or 6V?). Some teams decided to run them at the full 12V and run the risk of frying them, while some teams just operated them at the reccomended voltage.

That's not an issue this year, as the FP motors are designed for 12V.
I am sorry I ment 2004, the game with kickballs.