Rookie Questions

[1337pcgamer]

This is my team's rookie year with FRC and I have a few questions...

1. Can we use co2 gas for propulsion and if so is there a PSI limit
2. What is the max muzzle velocity? 12 mph?
3. What are the illuminated green screens made from? so we can test our camera....are they just 3 green cold cathode light?
4. Also, which PDF file would provide a GOOD schematic drawing of the arena?
5. How is it organized once the teams are at the competition and at the arena controlling the robot, you know like how many people there at a time and what everyone's job is?

Your help is greatly appreciated!
I may have more questions so bear with me...

[prettyyinpinkk9]

We were a rookie team last year and we ended up 32nd at Nationals, so if you have any questions other than the ones listed here, please e-mail me and I will try to help you the best I can. I know that the max muzzle velocity is 12 m/s. While at the competition, everyone should have designated jobs (i.e. scouters, drivers, mechanical help, human players, etc.). My recommendation would be to have no more people in the pit than necessary...Our team had a major problem with this. Like I said, please feel free to e-mail me with your questions because we were in your situation last year and I know you really need some help!!!

[Dorienne]

1. Nooo!
2. 12 meters/second
3. They are green cathode lights, but look in the manual. I believe they put one in the kit to test with.
4. Look and see. They have tons of them, and they have the measurements on them. Just look at them.
5. Please read the game manual.

Getting your questions answered is what the big thick manual is for....GO READ.

[Belldandyspaz]

its great you are so interested in first and i would love to help but alot of your questions are answered in the manual. check the first manual for stuff they just updated some schematics for the field. once again thank you for your interest in first. me and everyone else on Team 1073 FORCE would like to give you are warm welcome. please contact me with any other questions and i will be more than happy to help.

i do know that you cannot use co2 gas for propulsion

i hope this helps
im me at rikkufan123 or email me at rikkufan123@aim.com if need be

[1337pcgamer]

Ok Thanks guys, i'll read the manuals and stuff. If anything comes up i'll let someone know

[Dorienne]

Just letting you know, you have to read the manual first. My personal pet peeve is when rookie teams and rookies in general do not read the manuals and search the Q&A System for their answers BEFORE asking us or the Q&A System questions. It really bothers me.

If you have questions, you NEED to check the manuals and/or the Q&A System. The link for the system is located in the manual section on the FIRST website.

[RoboMom]

Q & A is still locked due to technical problems.

[1337pcgamer]

Hey Dorienne 007 why don't you go speak whale and get off my back, ok. Like I have time to read the manual when our team is still getting funds to even send 3 people to the competition....
But I will read them, the reason why I asked those questions is so I could get them answered without having to look in the manuals. No one else had a problem helping me, but I guess in your case you seemed to think it was more of a problem.

Again, thanks to eveyone who HELPED me not discouraged me.

[1337pcgamer]

007 i'm sorry about the last post. I am currently very frustrated with this whole thing and don't know if my team will even be able to have more than the base kit.

[1robotmom]

007 i'm sorry about the last post. I am currently very frustrated with this whole thing and don't know if my team will even be able to have more than the base kit.
RELAX, all! This contest is to learn and TO HAVE FUN! Remember, ALL the teams were rookies once! You'll get there! You've made a good start by finding and getting on chiefdelphi.com. Just roam the FIRST website too and you will get lots of help. The manual and lots of other helps are online there! Team MOE has a great website too!

[AceOfSpades]

Hi, yes I'm new to first, it sounds sick this year but i was wondering about some specs and technical stuff. So any help at all I can get would be awesome.

1. What would be the most efficient way to launch the ball, CO2, comp air, or to use a few spinning wheels?

2. What is the lightest cheapest metals to use?

3. Can you use other motors other than the ones given in the kit? Or can you upgrade them.

4. What voltage are you running off of?

5. What is the max weight limit?

6. What is the max voltage we can use?

7. If our bot beaks on the Field can we fix it after the round and then go back on to play?

I don't have any more but i guarantee i will very soon

email me at joshworrell@msn.com please if u will.

thx and bye

[AceOfSpades]

and how do you put your own avatar instead of the gears and flags?

[KTorak]

Just for future reference, I recommend searching the forum before you post a new topic for anything becuase 90% of the time, someone has already started a similar thread that contains loads of information. :)

Good luck and I hope to see you do well this year.

[JamesBrown]

Hi, yes I'm new to first, it sounds sick this year but i was wondering about some specs and technical stuff. So any help at all I can get would be awesome.

1. What would be the most efficient way to launch the ball, CO2, comp air, or to use a few spinning wheels?

2. What is the lightest cheapest metals to use?

3. Can you use other motors other than the ones given in the kit? Or can you upgrade them.

4. What voltage are you running off of?

5. What is the max weight limit?

6. What is the max voltage we can use?

7. If our bot beaks on the Field can we fix it after the round and then go back on to play?

I don't have any more but i guarantee i will very soon

email me at joshworrell@msn.com please if u will.

thx and bye

1 CO2 is not allowed and all air systems must be closed so I would recommend spinning wheels.

2 If you have the budget then titanium would be amazing to use. Practically alluminum is your best bet.

3 You can not use any other motors nore can you modify the motor, building a gear box is allowed.

4 the robot runs off a 12 volt battery.

5 The max weight is 120 lbs not including the battery or removable bumpers

6 the battry is the only power source so 12 volts

7 absolutly, every robot breaks, part of the challenge is to repair on the fly.

[Alan Anderson]

Hi, yes I'm new to first, it sounds sick this year but i was wondering about some specs and technical stuff.
Your first two questions are about engineering tradeoffs, and ought to be determined by your team as part of your robot design. The rest of them are answered clearly in the manual, and need not be repeated here -- especially because most of them have been repeated already.

Before you post again, read the manual, found on the 2006 FRC Documentation (http://www.usfirst.org/robotics/2006/frcdocs.htm) page on the FIRST web site.

[JamesBrown]

I would be happy to answer any and all questions you have, in the manual or otherwise email me at JamesBrown830@gmail.com

That said the single thing that will give you the biggest advantage this year is to read the manual, with or with out funds and anything else you will find it extremly helpful. PLease read the manual. THe thing that will make you more useful to your team than if you can secure them $10,000 is to know the rules and prevent them from making a mistake in the design stage that will effect them later.

[AceOfSpades]

thx guys you did help a lot

[AceOfSpades]

and how do you use a different avatar other than the gears and flags??

[aaeamdar]

1. Nooo!
2. 12 meters/second
3. They are green cathode lights, but look in the manual. I believe they put one in the kit to test with.
4. Look and see. They have tons of them, and they have the measurements on them. Just look at them.
5. Please read the game manual.

Getting your questions answered is what the big thick manual is for....GO READ.

Some great points, and I am pretty sure all of them are right (it's not that I'm doubting Dorienne 007, I'm doubting myself). Also, please Search Chief Delphi before posting questions (i.e. starting a new thread). If too much repetition happens, the forums will be jumbled. If too much repetition happens, the forums will be jumbled.

The ARENA section is best for finding information about the arena.

[AceOfSpades]

isnt this rookie talk

you should help us a little more and not tell us to post another place, it said rookie talk so i posted , im sorry , but i wanted to ask some questions and i got them answered and thank you, byebye

[aaeamdar]

2 If you have the budget then titanium would be amazing to use. Practically alluminum is your best bet.


Correct me if I'm wrong, but there is a "forbidden materials" list, an exotic materials list essentially. For example, you're not allowed to build your robot out of diamond dust, no matter how much you would like to.

Also, you have a limited budget for purchases for the robot and this would eat up a lot of that.

From what I've seen from our team (and that's just one team... duh) thousands of extra dollars are most helpful because you can go to several regionals and still attend the big smash in 'lanta. This gives you more chances to qualify for local awards which gives you more chances to get sent to 'lanta.

Anyway.

[aaeamdar]

isnt this rookie talk

you should help us a little more and not tell us to post another place, it said rookie talk so i posted , im sorry , but i wanted to ask some questions and i got them answered and thank you, byebye

Not to keep on with the negative stuff. But a couple things:

Literacy: it's appreciated. In e-mails, in online posts. There is way too much of this: "swete haxors /w dud lol", which noone can understand which also tends to sound a bit immature. Personally, I'm a bit anal about fixing spelling mistakes et cetera as I type and I except that not everyone is that way. However, punctuation, paragraph breaks, these are things that matter.

First of all, you will see by my team number that I'm a rookie too this year =)! There are a couple hundred of us rookie teams, and I imagine that there are a couple hundred rookie posters. Let's keep things civil.

When I talked about starting a new thread, I was referring to the OP (original poster) but it's something to keep in mind for everyone.

I'm glad you got your questions answered.

[Bill Moore]

RELAX, all! This contest is to learn and TO HAVE FUN! Remember, ALL the teams were rookies once! You'll get there! You've made a good start by finding and getting on chiefdelphi.com. Just roam the FIRST website too and you will get lots of help. The manual and lots of other helps are online there! Team MOE has a great website too!
Thank you for the compliment!
Rookies may find MOEmentum FYI (First-Year Infobase) to be helpful. This is a weekly plan to assist new teams (or any team) as they go through the season. There are many other items that need to be coordinated besides building the robot, and the FYI helps identify them.
MOEmentum FYI will be updated weekly as the season progresses, so you will see a divider between this years updates and last years. Reading ahead to see what your team will be working through is encouraged.

And to 1337pcgamer and AceOfSpades -- Keep asking the questions; there's always some folks here who are willing to help answer them.

[TheAnsweris42]

Here's a tip to the rookies, from a rookie - Curb your teammates enthusiasm for complicated ideas. This week is starting to leave me a little bit worried that a big portion of the team's lust for a 'cool looking' design that will 'pick up chicks' (don't ask) is going to leave us with a box of parts on ship day

[KathieK]

Hello rookies and welcome to the insanity of the Build Season!
You will find that it is nearly impossible to keep up with the amount of threads and posts that are put here during the Build Season. ChiefDelphi has a great system of organizing all the threads into different areas, including Technical areas, and by using the search function or by browsing through those areas, you may well find the answers to your questions.
Part of the reason you want to become familiar with the manual is that it is the official FIRST document. Answers posted here on ChiefDelphi are unofficial answers and should be taken as such. Lots of great discussion and debate goes on in these threads and you will make many friends over the next few months on ChiefDelphi.
All team members should be familiar with the game manual (including the non-technical members like me) so they understand the game, and so they can accurately answer questions about the game and robot to judges, media, and the public at competitions. Each team should have at least one rules expert who knows the game inside and out and keeps up with the Q& A forums and the Rules Updates that FIRST puts out throughout the season. Many teams quiz their members on the rules and game manual prior to attending competitions.
Good luck to you all this season!

[KenWittlief]

Here's a tip to the rookies, from a rookie - Curb your teammates enthusiasm for complicated ideas. This week is starting to leave me a little bit worried that a big portion of the team's lust for a 'cool looking' design that will 'pick up chicks' (don't ask) is going to leave us with a box of parts on ship day

the way to make sure you show up at your regional with a functioning robot is to follow a strict schedule. By the end of the day friday your team should have analyzed the game to calculate all the scoring possibilties, and come up with a primary scoring and defensive strategy.

So by saturday morning your team is in agreement with the big doubleyou: WHAT your robot shall do. I would not put more than one or two functions on your robot, for example: push balls into the corner goals, and be able to climb up on the ramp at the end of the match. Or toss balls into the center goal, and be able to play defense on the corner goals (whatever your team decides).

When you know the WHAT part then you can brainstorm the best way for a robot to do those things: the HOW (the design concept). By the end of the second week your team should be in agreement on the HOW, for example: two wheel drive, or 4 wheel drive, or tank treads + an arm to pick up balls and push them in the goal, or a snow plow blade, or a kicker.

then you have 4 weeks left to start building and fabricating the parts, and assembling it.

If you dont take these two steps now, your team will be running in several directions, starting one idea, then getting a 'better' idea 3 weeks from now and starting over. You cant let that happen.

follow a schedule. Once you know the WHAT, that part of the design cycle is over, and you focus on the HOW. Once you choose the HOW that part is over and you focus on fabrication, assembly, test and driver practice.

[DonRotolo]

Here's a tip to the rookies, from a rookie - Curb your teammates enthusiasm for complicated ideas. This week is starting to leave me a little bit worried that a big portion of the team's lust for a 'cool looking' design that will 'pick up chicks' (don't ask) is going to leave us with a box of parts on ship day
I fully agree. The team will learn just as much with a very poorly performing robot that actually passes inspection, as from a championship robot.

Maybe more.

You see, the point of FIRST isn't the robot. It's Gracious Professionalism. Build something moderately simple, but something that not only works BUT your drivers can actually practice with for a week, yes a whole week.

Ken's comments are excellent, bring them to the team and get everyone to agree on that approach. If you have team members just sitting around with nothing to do, then you need a taskmaster, someone who hands out "job sheets" with a specific task and deadline on it. All you (don't) need is a bunch of back-seat engineers who know little but give big advice, causing confusion and wasted effort.

Kinda like what we did last year. We had one hour exactly of practice before the FedEx truck showed up, and it showed at regionals.

If you can't get everyone to agree, there needs to be a "Mayor" who recognized when the discussion is not being productive, and either steers it forwards again or, if necessary, terminates it. A smaller group may be needed to make a decision.

Very best of luck, don't hesitate to ASK questions, but puhleeze Read The Manual and whatever else is available.

Don

[1337pcgamer]

I did not know that by posting a new thread it was a problem...
In fact I have had a fairly known forum about computer/technology for a couple years. I know the rounds. I realize you have to search. But sometimes you start new threads, that's why a forum is what it is. Next time I think about posting a topic I will look for it first and not post anything. I guess it's up to the "senior" members to decide which threads are acceptable and which are not. As for discussion of scaring rookies away, well I think that just happened.

[Bill Moore]

I did not know that by posting a new thread it was a problem...
In fact I have had a fairly known forum about computer/technology for a couple years. I know the rounds. I realize you have to search. But sometimes you start new threads, that's why a forum is what it is. Next time I think about posting a topic I will look for it first and not post anything. I guess it's up to the "senior" members to decide which threads are acceptable and which are not. As for discussion of scaring rookies away, well I think that just happened.
Actually, it's been an interesting occurrence. I don't recall as many "harsh" responses to rookie posts in the past as I have this year. Certainly there weren't in 2002, or I would have just dumped such an elitist group. I would be shocked to hear some of these responses or attitudes at a competition. Helping rookies learn how to do things properly is professional, doing it without an attitude is gracious. It is incidents like this that should make us reflect, "How much do we truly live GP, and how much do we just use it when it's convenient?"

[KathieK]

007 i'm sorry about the last post. I am currently very frustrated with this whole thing and don't know if my team will even be able to have more than the base kit.Is your team being mentored by a veteran team yet? There are lots of teams out there who are willing to take rookie teams under their wings and walk them through the season, even if its a long-distance relationship. And Idaho has a great number of rookie teams this year so veteran teams take notice!

[RoboMom]

http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/showthread.php?t=41695&highlight=manual

is a great resource to help search the manual for specific questions.

Email is a hard medium of communication sometimes. "Tones" can be misinterpreted, often when one is in a hurry. It happens to me all the time, and I end up saying "I'm sorry" at least once every day.
It's a new day. Let perceived slights and miscommunication go; and let's all try to be a little more gentle with each other. I've also learned many times that the old adage "if you don't have something nice (or helpful) to say, then don't say it." Just let it go and move on to the next thing in your busy lives. Sometimes what makes you feel better, makes the others feel pretty crappy.

Think before you press that "post quick reply" button. It really should read "post a thoughtful reply " button.

This is supposed to be hard work AND fun. Let's get on with the fun part.
I wish you all well and hope those designs are getting nailed down on paper (or CAD or whatever) in the near future.
p.s. this is what my old team would have called the "mom-talk."

[KenWittlief]

If you can't get everyone to agree, there needs to be a "Mayor" who recognized when the discussion is not being productive, and either steers it forwards again or, if necessary, terminates it. A smaller group may be needed to make a decision.

excellent point! Teenagers think everything should be 'fair' and every organization should be a democracy, where everyone gets to vote.

Design-by-committee always results in a system that attempts to do everything, is too big, takes too long, is too expensive, and worst of all, it ends up doing nothing very well.

Every engineering design team that I have been on over the last 21 years had a lead engineer or project engineer who had the final authority over the whole project. You earn that position with years of experience and excellent performance.

Implementation details are left to the rest of the project team, or to individuals who are working on specific subsystems.

As I said before, you have to follow a schedule and meet your milestones, because ship-date is a milestone that will not move, and there is no partial credit (you cant ship half a robot).

As each milestone comes, your lead engineer has to make the final call "this is what we are doing, now lets move on to the next part of the design cycle".

Rather than putting things to a vote, there should be a process for evaluating each idea or concept, a way to put numerical ratings on each aspect of a design, and when you add the + and - columns up, the answer is right there. No need to vote. For engineering projects there are reasons why the best answer is the best answer, not feelings, not pride, not ego.

If you cant show the numbers that support a decision then you havent thought things through in a logical manner. (this has been discussed in other threads).

[1337pcgamer]

let's not get in to the "teen" talk please...


excellent point! Teenagers think everything should be 'fair' and every organization should be a democracy, where everyone gets to vote.

Design-by-committee always results in a system that attempts to do everything, is too big, takes too long, is too expensive, and worst of all, it ends up doing nothing very well.

Every engineering design team that I have been on over the last 21 years had a lead engineer or project engineer who had the final authority over the whole project. You earn that position with years of experience and excellent performance.

Implementation details are left to the rest of the project team, or to individuals who are working on specific subsystems.

As I said before, you have to follow a schedule and meet your milestones, because ship-date is a milestone that will not move, and there is no partial credit (you cant ship half a robot).

As each milestone comes, your lead engineer has to make the final call "this is what we are doing, now lets move on to the next part of the design cycle".

Rather than putting things to a vote, there should be a process for evaluating each idea or concept, a way to put numerical ratings on each aspect of a design, and when you add the + and - columns up, the answer is right there. No need to vote. For engineering projects there are reasons why the best answer is the best answer, not feelings, not pride, not ego.

If you cant show the numbers that support a decision then you havent thought things through in a logical manner. (this has been discussed in other threads).