Easy C programming , Worth teaching?

[Nine9cracker]

Ok I been trying to program easy C from lab view and I came with a conclusion. It would be good but its not worth the time to teach the other programmers since we took a programing course during the winter break :D and are very use to programming the standard way(Mplab). So what do you guys feel about programming with lab view? Worth it or not? :confused:

[rappo]

If you already know the language, it's probably not worth it - getting used to a whole new interface is time consuming, and you're probably better off sticking with what you know/learned how to do. But, if you're all new to programming languages in general, I guess EasyC is the way to go.

[artdutra04]

Ok I been trying to program easy C from lab view and I came with a conclusion. It would be good but its not worth the time to teach the other programmers since we took a programing course during the winter break :D and are very use to programming the standard way(Mplab). So what do you guys feel about programming with lab view? Worth it or not? :confused:I just kinda picked up EasyC in just a few hours. For someone who has programmed before, it was mostly self-explanitory. For seasoned veterans at programming, I would recommend using EasyC for "prototyping" code. Since it uses the flowchart blocks for building its code, it can quickly be used to verify that a camera tracking or accelerometer function works. The drag and drop is a lot quicker than hand coding or copy/pasting it in MPLAB. Once your code works fine in EasyC, then I would suggest that veteran programmers move on and redo everything in MPLAB if they want. Or you can continue to use EasyC. It's really up to your own personal preference. :)

[BradAMiller]

Ok I been trying to program easy C from lab view and I came with a conclusion. It would be good but its not worth the time to teach the other programmers since we took a programing course during the winter break :D and are very use to programming the standard way(Mplab). So what do you guys feel about programming with lab view? Worth it or not? :confused:
If you like the EasyC style of programming but would prefer typing C programs into an editor you can program directly to the EasyC runtime system. The library is called WPILib and you can read about it here (http://www.wpi.edu/~bamiller/WPILib).

Currently the installable version is slightly messed up, but you can look at the document and the examples (they are essently the same as what you would write). I'll put up the real stuff Saturday with real downloadable example MPLab projects.

Brad

[kevlarman]

I briefly looked at easyC, and it seems useful for teaching newer programmers, but it's hard to mix easyC code and code you wrote the regular way (copying and pasting is a great way to introduce bugs) because it completely changes the structure of the code. It also hides some useful features (like interupts, or being able to wait for less than one millisecond) while leaving in other things that would completely perplex newer programmers, for example the operator menu contains things like '^=' and '?:'. The big problem i have with it is you can't mix easyC and hand-written code because of the huge difference in structure.

[Kingofl337]

EasyC hides all the background work to make it easy to control sensors that
would have been other wise difficult or time consuming for programmers to integrate.
For instance you could have the camera and gyro working together
to drive the robot in 15 or so blocks of code.

I highly recommend everyone check out tutorial programs 6 & 7 they truly
show the power of EasyC and WPIlib over writing everything by hand.
While I can appreciate everyone who wants to code by hand, do all the
sensor timings and make the code so clean you can save that extra byte of
memory. There is a hard way and an easy way to accomplish the same goal.

When you get a flat tire you can change a tire with an impact gun or a tire iron in the end you get the same result.

[binary_sandman]

programing in c is so easy i never programed before and i picked it up in while programing last year. our programers have already finshed
drive moters
auton mode
just under 5 days
1388 all the way

[Mike]

programing in c is so easy i never programed before and i picked it up in while programing last year. our programers have already finshed
drive moters
auton mode
just under 5 days
1388 all the way
That is quite the arrogant statement. You are saying that you completed all the programming, without having a robot to test it on, in five days? I doubt it.

With that being said. I would probably only use EasyC for the flowchart capabilities. But even that is over-kill, why not just use a flowcharting program?

[Kingofl337]

Mike, I don't think your response was in line with the Gracious Professionalism that FIRST was founded on. Especially seeing your not even talking about the right product. EasyC does not use flow charting, it based on drag and drop C which teaches programmers the syntax they need to learn to program freehand in C.

With the WPIlib for a back end, EasyC has all the sensors for this years competition and more. This includes the CMUCam, Gyro, Encoders, gear tooth sensors, and more. It is very possible for a team to have built and completed most of the programing without a finished robot because EasyC allows you to focus on the problem not the minor details of setting up all sensors. With just a few Victors on a piece of plywood and some motors you can see what is going on very quickly. Plus, on-line mode allows you to see what is going on real-time and you can use the data you collected to write your code.

Good Luck 1388

[Mike]

Mike, I don't think your response was in line with the Gracious Professionalism that FIRST was founded on. Especially seeing your not even talking about the right product. EasyC does not use flow charting, it based on drag and drop C which teaches programmers the syntax they need to learn to program freehand in C.

With the WPIlib for a back end, EasyC has all the sensors for this years competition and more. This includes the CMUCam, Gyro, Encoders, gear tooth sensors, and more. It is very possible for a team to have built and completed most of the programing without a finished robot because EasyC allows you to focus on the problem not the minor details of setting up all sensors. To some degree with just a few victors on a piece of plywood and some motors you can see what is going on very quickly.

Good Luck 1388
I don't see anything Non-GP about my post. All I said was that I doubt a team has completed what normally takes 6 weeks in 5 days. That's a perfectly reasonable doubt. I was also mildly annoyed at the way that he was seeming to use any post to "brag" that his programming was already done. This may be an unreasonable annoyance on my part.

If I understand EasyC, this "drag and drop C" is basically flowcharting that generates code.

Also, if you read the post I quoted it said that he did not use EasyC. It may be perfectly possible to program a theoretical robot in 5 days using EasyC. I would not know, as I have not tried. The person I quoted, however, said that he programmed it purely in text-based C. That is what I was doubting.

And yes, good luck 1388. Good luck to all teams.

[Matt Krass]

First point, telling somebody they aren't GP doesn't seem all that Gracious and Professional to me, that could have been handled privately, there was no reason to bring it out here.

Secondly, I agree with Mike, there's just no way you're done, not without a completed robot, you may have made a lot of progress but I'm willing to put up a sizable bet you're not done. You can't have finished programming something you haven't even built, or are you going to try and tell me you finished the robot too?

Everyone needs to chill out here.

As far as teaching EasyC I see it to be a good method, one of many though, to teach new programmers, other than that I don't personally have much use for it, but other teams might, so my suggestion is do what suits your needs.

[Astronouth7303]

With that being said. I would probably only use EasyC for the flowchart capabilities. But even that is over-kill, why not just use a flowcharting program?

Speaking of which, I would like to know some recomendations. This is my first year having a programming team, and one of the things that is getting pushed at me is flowcharting. I would like to have software to do it.

Any recomendations?

[pwilczynski]

I would recommend using EasyC for "prototyping" code.:)

Thats my feeling as well. It's a useful tool for a beginnner and has enough bells and whistles to do basic coding.

Using it for really tough programming....if you're doing tough programming you shouldn't use it. You have a limited number of commands, and espesially given that most real world applications call for C, not EasyC, you might as well learn it sometime.

[Bharat Nain]

I played around with EasyC for a few hours yesterday and I really like it. While I like writing code myself(and I will this year), I'd rather play around with flowcharts to get the program done ASAP. It's the same job done in less time - and in most cases less effort. IMHO, you can do quite advanced coding with it too. You cannot make a whole lot of syntax errors either. This really is a gift for rookie programmers.

[Tom Bottiglieri]

I played around with EasyC for a few hours yesterday and I really like it. While I like writing code myself(and I will this year), I'd rather play around with flowcharts to get the program done ASAP. It's the same job done in less time - and in most cases less effort. IMHO, you can do quite advanced coding with it too. You cannot make a whole lot of syntax errors either. This really is a gift for rookie programmers.
You would love using WPILib in MPLab then Bharat. It runs a bit slower than IFI default code, but all of the drivers for the kit sensors are built in and run perfectly.

WPILib is great for prototyping code for the veteran programmer. All the fun of writing code, none of the hassles of IFI default. For example, I just wrote a absolute heading based drive system (robot always moves in the direction the jostick is pointing) in about 10 minutes with 7 lines of code... ;)

[iamthetallpaul]

I've been free-writing Java and C++ for four years now but this is my first year programming for a robot, and my first year on the team, so I think I'll be using easyC just for its capabilities with the sensors. That seems to be the consensus here anyway.

[TubaMorg]

This is my second year as programming mentor for our team. There are absolutely no other programmers (kids). Last year I tried to teach some of the code to the kids, but it was difficult in the time frame of the robot build. Our team is very small (around 15 total with half of that our core), so no one can devote too much time to learning how to program because they also have to design and build the robot. After checking out EasyC I am absolutely going to use it to get my kids programming the robot. I guess it's not "real" programming, if you look at typing out code as being "real." I suppose when IDE's first showed up there were plenty of hard core coders who thought it wasn't "real." too. I think this will help my kids to actually program the robot, which is the goal here. At the same time, the resulting code is syntaxed/commented/formatted correctly providing them a good example. As we get closer to ship date we will have to customize some, providing ample opportunity to write "real" code. Thanks to Intellitek! Let's not forget all the newer teams out there that don't have programmers, this will really help them get in the game! Hmmm....my first post, how do I send?