View Full Version : question about the corner-block rule
the rules state that blocking the corner goal on defense isn't allowed
I don't have the PDF open and I didn't find the exact specifics of the rule
is it blocking the corner goal as in standing on the corner-ramp
or anywhere in the area preventing other bots to get there?
just slightly confused
Eria4044
14-01-2006, 11:23
<G21> ROBOT incursion into the Corner Goal - Incidental incursion into the corner goal that occurs as the result of a ROBOT pushing balls into the goal is permitted, not to exceed a distance of approximately 3 inches. Intentional incursion, for example to use a ball gathering mechanism to drop off balls inside the goal, or extending a portion of the ROBOT through the goal opening to activate the ball counting system, will result in disqualification of the offending ROBOT.
That was all I could find in the manual about corner goal interference, but last I heard defensive robots had to keep 3 feet away from the corner goals. Maybe it has something to do with pinning (G24), which could conceivably trigger the ball counter inside the corner goal.
Here's the manual for you to see yourself: http://www2.usfirst.org/2006comp/Manual/4-The_Game.pdf
the rules state that blocking the corner goal on defense isn't allowed
I don't have the PDF open and I didn't find the exact specifics of the rule
is it blocking the corner goal as in standing on the corner-ramp
or anywhere in the area preventing other bots to get there?
just slightly confused
Wrong. There is no rule stating that you can not block the corner goal. <G19> allows it and nothing prohibits it.
Field Interaction - ROBOTs may push or react against any elements of the field, provided there is nodamage or disruption of the field elements. ROBOTs may not grab, grasp, grapple, or attach to any field structure. If a ROBOT violates this rule, the head referee will give one warning. If the referee determines that team is disregarding the warning, the team’s ROBOT will be disabled for the remainder of the match.
Wetzel
That was all I could find in the manual about corner goal interference, but last I heard defensive robots had to keep 3 feet away from the corner goals. Maybe it has something to do with pinning (G24), which could conceivably trigger the ball counter inside the corner goal.
This is incorrect. There is no limit as to how close to the goals a defending robot can be. Robots are in fact allowed to enter the goals--up to 3"
<G21> ROBOT Incursion into the Corner Goal - Incidental incursion into the corner goal that occurs as a result
of a ROBOT pushing balls into the goal is permitted, not to exceed a distance of approximately 3 inches.
but isnt the fact that it is incidental incursion afect the penalty decision?
I mean maybe 'only allowed 3" in if they are infact pushing balls in'?
but isnt the fact that it is incidental incursion afect the penalty decision?
I mean maybe 'only allowed 3" in if they are infact pushing balls in'?
You seem to have done your homework here. You are allowed incidental-- not intentional--incursion up to 3 inches. If the incursion is intentional, or greater that 3 inches (about 6.5 cm for those who aren't used to the Engish system), it's a 5 point penalty.
the rules state that blocking the corner goal on defense isn't allowed
I don't have the PDF open and I didn't find the exact specifics of the rule
is it blocking the corner goal as in standing on the corner-ramp
or anywhere in the area preventing other bots to get there?
just slightly confused
To ask this question a second way, lets say I am on Defence. I park my robot in front of the ramp so the other team does not have access to the goal. I do not see a rule, but I might have missed it, that says I can not. I do think there should be a crease like in hockey around the goal. just my 2 cents
Henry_Mareck
15-01-2006, 02:32
I think its legal to park there.
I think the rule is mainly so no robots stick anything over near the human player, and so the ball-counting systerm does not record your robot as a ball
I think it's been covered elsewhere on CD, but I also think it's clearly asked/answered in the Q/A system. You can block the corner goals, just abide by the rules stated in the manual as stated in this thread aleady.
lukevanoort
15-01-2006, 19:52
To ask this question a second way, lets say I am on Defence. I park my robot in front of the ramp so the other team does not have access to the goal. I do not see a rule, but I might have missed it, that says I can not. I do think there should be a crease like in hockey around the goal. just my 2 cents
AHHHH! Scenario questions! :ahh: Net+ flashbacks!
Seriously though, the game animation shows a robot doing this, so I assume it's legal. But do you want to? That leaves only one robot to defend against two... bad numbers. If you want to really lock an alliance down, pull a 71. Grab all three robots and drag them to the other end of the field. Although I think there might be a rule about grabbing other bots... something to do with non incidental out of bumper zone contact.
Lil' Lavery
15-01-2006, 23:36
It all depends on robot capabilities. If they dont have a shooter, camping the two corner goals will totally eliminate any way for them to score. Also, if you can deprive them of balls, or they cannot pick them up off the floor, and they have to send 1+ robots back to their Human Player, its a numerically equal (or favoring you) situation.
If you do plan on parking in front of a corner goal, make sure you've got a very robust robot. I imagine the other team will be doing everything they can to move you out of the way. I think we'll see at least one robot with a pneumatic lift on each corner to raise the tires off the playing surface....
Billfred
17-01-2006, 07:37
If you do plan on parking in front of a corner goal, make sure you've got a very robust robot. I imagine the other team will be doing everything they can to move you out of the way. I think we'll see at least one robot with a pneumatic lift on each corner to raise the tires off the playing surface....
Not quite--re-read <S04> in the Robot section. Those sorts of lifts, unless they can do it while remaning within 10 degrees of vertical, would be wedges, which aren't allowed.
ChuckDickerson
17-01-2006, 12:48
I can imagine there will be plenty of bots that camp out in from of a lower goal. It's a pretty good strategy especially for rookie teams that might not have a great ball collector or ball shooter mechanism. I can also imagine that there will be lots of pushing matches with those "camp bots" in front of the lower goals. What happens if a bot trying to score pushes a "camp bot" into the lower goal past the 3" "incidental incursion" limit? If you have bumpers on your bot or a really low bot it might not be very hard to get pushed up into the goal opening past the 3". I am sure FIRST expects there to be lots of pushing matches in front of the lower goals but who gets the penalty points? The bot that broke the plane or the bot trying to score that pushed the defensive bot into the goal?
Not quite--re-read <S04> in the Robot section. Those sorts of lifts, unless they can do it while remaning within 10 degrees of vertical, would be wedges, which aren't allowed.
I think you misunderstand my intention - I'm not considering tipping another robot. I'm thinking along the lines of a backhoe with the support struts to lift the tires off the ground so the machine will not roll when digging. Something to steady the robot and render it quite immobile, without wavering from vertical.
Anyway, it's an outside-the-box type of thing - we are not considering it for our own bot (I'm not gonna subject our second-year team to the world of pneumatics quite yet).
That's one of the wonderful properties of this year's game - a team could build a robot that is very aggresive both on multiple options of offense and defense, rather than concentrating on one aspect of the game.
I can imagine there will be plenty of bots that camp out in from of a lower goal. It's a pretty good strategy especially for rookie teams that might not have a great ball collector or ball shooter mechanism. I can also imagine that there will be lots of pushing matches with those "camp bots" in front of the lower goals. What happens if a bot trying to score pushes a "camp bot" into the lower goal past the 3" "incidental incursion" limit? If you have bumpers on your bot or a really low bot it might not be very hard to get pushed up into the goal opening past the 3". I am sure FIRST expects there to be lots of pushing matches in front of the lower goals but who gets the penalty points? The bot that broke the plane or the bot trying to score that pushed the defensive bot into the goal?
As long as the front (back?) surface of the robot is straight, it shouldn't be pushed into the goal. The hole is only 11" tall.
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