scouting program

[Marjory Frosty]

I am trying to work on a scouting program. If anyone looking at this has any suggestion's on how to go about this, or how to for that matter (I.E. I am learning as I go) let me know. You can contact me here or e-mail me at Frosty472002@aol.com or AIM me. I am looking forward to getting this off the ground. Hope everyone has a great season.

Marjory
"Frosty"

[EricH]

Let's see--there are scouting sheets from past years in Whitepapers.
OK, that might not answer your question. Let's compare the two main types of scouting:
Pit Scouting
You go around the pits and talk to teams about their robots, take pictures, find out specs. Great for finding out what to look for, but don't rely on it totally. You can't tell until you see the team in action what they cna really do. Which leads us to the next type:
Match (Action) Scouting
Several people (suggested minimum of one per robot) watch the matches. Each person takes notes on one robot's performance, often using a prepared sheet. As long as all the robots are scouted, you're fine. Then you compile all the data through whatever algorithm/sorting method you use, and determine who is the best partner.

The best method: combination. Pit scouting Thursday, match scouting both Friday and Saturday. Your choice what to use.

[Marjory Frosty]

I am looking for help or ideas on a scouting program for the matches. I prefer match scouting. I have found that it is more accurate to the teams needs. Pit scouting is good but it is heard to find a teams weakness. Everyone would like to think that there robot doesn't have any (or not want to admit any) weaknesses. It maybe my last year with my team and I want my scouting to be the best ( the least stressful) it can be. Problem is that I am not the most computer programing savvy person in the word, I am one of the least. If anyone can help me in this matter please let me know. I really want to come up with something that at the end of the day will give a running average for each team, but still see what they did in there matches to get them there. If anyone has any ideas or help in this matter. I would greatly appreciate it.

Hope everyone has a great season. :)

[Eugenia Gabrielov]

Let me go from where EricH is talking and build on that. I'll focus on match scouting.

Step 1: What do you think is important to your team?
Before you rush to collect lots of data, try to figure out what your team thinks is most important. If you guys are an all-defensive bot, you're probably looking for a shooter. Maybe you can only shoot into the center goal, so you need a team with a high record in the corners. There are many things to consider. Maybe you can't store balls, so you need a team that can store as many balls as possible.

Step 2: How do you quantify those importances?
In each case, you have found a need for your team. You, as a scouting leader, need to figure out how to draw that data from the match quickly. I suggest this format: a sheet with things you take a tally of at the top (such as balls scored for the robot, or balls stored in the robot), followed by a large chunk of the paper for guided commentary. You may want to include at the top of this blank sheet..."Scouts, please comment on these things." Or you can write some questions and match scouts can answer each one.

You don't need to be programming savvy. Say you just want the average number of balls scored per match by a team. Microsoft Excel will do it for you happily, and is available on just about every computer as well as most PDA's. You can insert numbers for each match and ask it to calculate an average and standard deviation, and you can share that data with your pit. Keep in mind that not every match is balanced: sometimes a good robot may be in a weak alliance, so it may have to act out of character from its usual abilities. You should note that sort of thing on your comment sheets.

Step 3: Analyzing this information
The first people that need to look through this information are the scouts. Quickly! One leader should be assigned that reviews all the scouting data for a match between matches and compiles it. While they're throwing all those balls back in, and setting stuff up, you can be analying match data. Our team's scouting leader will have a large notebook that they will use after each match to record data. Data from this notebook will then be shared with the Pit via a runner. You can have Excel or another computing program running and just enter numbers, and the program does the calculating for you.

Let me know if you need any help setting up a program. I'd be glad to show you ours and walk you through creating your own.

Good luck!
Eugenia Gabrielov
Scout, 461

[Ethulin]

Let me go from where EricH is talking and build on that. I'll focus on match scouting.

Step 1: What do you think is important to your team?
Before you rush to collect lots of data, try to figure out what your team thinks is most important. If you guys are an all-defensive bot, you're probably looking for a shooter. Maybe you can only shoot into the center goal, so you need a team with a high record in the corners. There are many things to consider. Maybe you can't store balls, so you need a team that can store as many balls as possible.

Step 2: How do you quantify those importances?
In each case, you have found a need for your team. You, as a scouting leader, need to figure out how to draw that data from the match quickly. I suggest this format: a sheet with things you take a tally of at the top (such as balls scored for the robot, or balls stored in the robot), followed by a large chunk of the paper for guided commentary. You may want to include at the top of this blank sheet..."Scouts, please comment on these things." Or you can write some questions and match scouts can answer each one.

You don't need to be programming savvy. Say you just want the average number of balls scored per match by a team. Microsoft Excel will do it for you happily, and is available on just about every computer as well as most PDA's. You can insert numbers for each match and ask it to calculate an average and standard deviation, and you can share that data with your pit. Keep in mind that not every match is balanced: sometimes a good robot may be in a weak alliance, so it may have to act out of character from its usual abilities. You should note that sort of thing on your comment sheets.

Step 3: Analyzing this information
The first people that need to look through this information are the scouts. Quickly! One leader should be assigned that reviews all the scouting data for a match between matches and compiles it. While they're throwing all those balls back in, and setting stuff up, you can be analying match data. Our team's scouting leader will have a large notebook that they will use after each match to record data. Data from this notebook will then be shared with the Pit via a runner. You can have Excel or another computing program running and just enter numbers, and the program does the calculating for you.

Let me know if you need any help setting up a program. I'd be glad to show you ours and walk you through creating your own.

Good luck!
Eugenia Gabrielov
Scout, 461


I like a lot of that, but step 1 I think is a bit lacking. Look at what the goal of your scouting is. If the goal is just to pick alliance partners then the above is fine. If it is to do match prediction then picking what you want to record really does not cut it. We will be recording every thing that happens in the match using STAMP (stampscouting.org) and video taping every match for review later.

[SteveGPage]

I like a lot of that, but step 1 I think is a bit lacking. Look at what the goal of your scouting is. If the goal is just to pick alliance partners then the above is fine. If it is to do match prediction then picking what you want to record really does not cut it. We will be recording every thing that happens in the match using STAMP (stampscouting.org) and video taping every match for review later.

I have been watching what STAMP is working on with great interest and it sounds like it will be a great advancement in scouting. My only concern has been if there will be someone at each regional that has the ability to host the application. I know that our team does not have that ability. In light of that, I have developed a stand-alone MS Access based scouting program. I am still in the development stages, but it has about 80% of the functionality that I want. I would be happy to share this application with anyone who would like a copy of it. If you are an Access programmer (I am not - I'm just a hack!) and would like to improve it and release a copy to others, that would be great!

Steve

[Ethulin]

I have been watching what STAMP is working on with great interest and it sounds like it will be a great advancement in scouting. My only concern has been if there will be someone at each regional that has the ability to host the application. I know that our team does not have that ability. In light of that, I have developed a stand-alone MS Access based scouting program. I am still in the development stages, but it has about 80% of the functionality that I want. I would be happy to share this application with anyone who would like a copy of it. If you are an Access programmer (I am not - I'm just a hack!) and would like to improve it and release a copy to others, that would be great!

Steve
You see, it is just as easy to host STAMP as it will be to host an MS Access based app. The reason is all you need is a laptop! You just install XAMPP ( http://www.apachefriends.org/en/xampp.html ). It comes pre-outfitted with an HTTP server, PHP, mySQL and even phpmyadmin!

STAMP will be finishing up the final touches during the beginning of next week and release this coming Wednesday!

[Eugenia Gabrielov]

May I please make a very polite notice to the people who plan to host scouting programs?

I think your efforts are very good, and having done this in the past, I would just like to give you heads up to some of the difficulties you might face, whether you're the organizer of the program or you're just hosting it on your computer.

1) Internet access can be very difficult to get. At some highly wired regionals, such as BMR, it's easy to find, but in ATL it can be harder. Last year there was a nice area for wireless, but they didn't start letting people go into it for scouting (by the VEX) until later in the competition for some reason. I know some regionals had problems with that last year, though I don't know which one.

2) Data entry and collection does take a LOT of personnel, and they should understand very well what is expected of them. I love scouting, but it is not always an easy thing. There is a full-regional commitment. Sometimes one group or another gets ahead on the papers and the other group falls behind, so make sure everybody knows their responsibilities.

3) Decide whether or not you plan to broadcast your data to other teams as a service. Keep in mind that if you do this, your program must allow you to make certain things private. I'm of the opinion that while sharing is awesome, the purpose of scouting is for the success of your team, so you should be able to make notes that say "Team (insert team here) is probably not compatible with our strategy" as private notes. I don't encourage typing nasty things in these notes, because many people do see them if they're helping you with data entry, but the ability to keep some notes private is good.

4) Good luck! :-D Scouting is hard work, but it's awesome fun.

[SteveGPage]

You see, it is just as easy to host STAMP as it will be to host an MS Access based app. The reason is all you need is a laptop! You just install XAMPP ( http://www.apachefriends.org/en/xampp.html ). It comes pre-outfitted with an HTTP server, PHP, mySQL and even phpmyadmin!

STAMP will be finishing up the final touches during the beginning of next week and release this coming Wednesday!

How will users then sync up to the master database? Do you have to have internet access during the matches - does the host laptop have to be able to broadcast to others during the match? I assume that there does have to be some level of connection to the internet. Last year at the Granite State - BAE competition in Manchester, NH the internet connection was sporadic at best.

I will go ahead and set up my laptop with the apache server and look forward to seeing how it works on Wednesday!

[SteveGPage]

May I please make a very polite notice to the people who plan to host scouting programs?
....
4) Good luck! :-D Scouting is hard work, but it's awesome fun.

You are absolutely correct, scouting is hard work, and it is the responsibility of the entire team. Getting everyone to realize that good scouting data can make or break a team is important. Last year we won matches, that we would not have won, because of good scouting data. But it is not just having the data, but knowing - in advance - what you are going to do with that data is the crucial step. This year's competition is going to be like a giant chess match. You better know what all the pieces can do!

See you all at Granite State, Chesapeake, and hopefully at the Nationals!!

[Ethulin]

How will users then sync up to the master database?
If by "Master Database" you mean the server YOU have created the answer is as many as you want. It could be 1 laptop or 6 laptops.
does the host laptop have to be able to broadcast to others during the match?
Hm. I am not really sure what you mean here. If you mean does it have to remain on the wifi then theoretically no, it only needs to be on when you load the scouting page and when you input data but it would be crazy to turn it off... I have a feeling I am getting this question wronge so please clarify.
I assume that there does have to be some level of connection to the internet.
No! All you will need to do is download the zip file PRIOR to the regional and you will be off and running, no internet connection needed at the regional.

[SteveGPage]

Hm. I am not really sure what you mean here. If you mean does it have to remain on the wifi then theoretically no, it only needs to be on when you load the scouting page and when you input data but it would be crazy to turn it off... I have a feeling I am getting this question wronge so please clarify.


Okay, I think I got it now. I was under the assumption that the host would need to have it broadcasting to all teams, with a hook-up to the internet - accessing a master database. I look forward to seeing the demo this week!

[buss]

At UCF and Atlanta, SPAM will be running an open WIFI connection in the pit (maybe) and the stands with STAMP running. At the end of the day, the data will be uploaded to our website (spamrobotics.com) so any team can get the data we have from any internet connection.

At least that's the plan anyway...