The Chester Challenge 2006

[Wayne C.]

Well I heard your comments and talked to the team and I am p-leased to announce team 25's Chester Challenge for 2006. In honor of Mr. John Chester , a team parent and adult member engineer, we will offer a trophy tiki to the first ALLIANCE to complete the following task. To claim the prize we need confirmation from an official at the event that this task was indeed accomplished in an official FIRST competition seeding or elimination round and please include the exact time of it.

The 2006 Challenge-

Everybody seems to be able to shoot the balls into the high center goal.

We propose that we will award the TIKI to the first ALLIANCE where all three robots, from start position in the starting boxes and in autonomous mode, score all 30 balls carried by the 3 robots into the high center goal.

all 30 balls- 90 pts- all in the 10 second autonomous mode



I know this is an EASY challenge for this year. Somebody will do it. Will it be week 1- or week 10?



I am eager to see who steps up to the challenge. The TIKI is still waiting from last season, I'll even dust it off for you.

Now get to it!!


WC :cool:

[Freddy Schurr]

I don't think it going to work, especially if you have all the robot shooting at once from the same position. You get at least 8-10, maybe 15 but not all 30 balls in.

[dez250]

The 2006 Challenge-

Everybody seems to be able to shoot the balls into the high center goal.

We propose that we will award the TIKI to the first ALLIANCE where all three robots, from start position in the starting boxes and in autonomous mode, score all 30 balls carried by the 3 robots into the high center goal.

all 30 balls- 90 pts- all in the 10 second autonomous mode

Now get to it!!


WC :cool:

Wayne, Are you saying they cant move before shooting?

[Goldeye]

Wayne, Are you saying they cant move before shooting?

He asks, of course, because it's not really possible to do that, due to rules and air resistance.

[Wayne C.]

He asks, of course, because it's not really possible to do that, due to rules and air resistance.


Impossible? Explain..... what rules say you cant shoot from the start position?

This is far more possible than scoring the viso n tetra on the center goal in 15 seconds.....

[Billfred]

Impossible? Explain..... what rules say you cant shoot from the start position?

This is far more possible than scoring the viso n tetra on the center goal in 15 seconds.....
No rule prohibits it, but I haven't been hearing any rumblings on Delphi about anyone being able to hit balls from half-court (where 1.5 of the robots would start).

[Wayne C.]

No rule prohibits it, but I haven't been hearing any rumblings on Delphi about anyone being able to hit balls from half-court (where 1.5 of the robots would start).


OK - much as I hate to give in to nay-sayers-

I'll alter the challenge-

the first Allliance that scores 90 ball-points (sans bonus) in the autonomous mode from ANYWHERE on the field and in an official FIRST seeding or elimination round will win the TIKI.


So--I made it easy for you- can you do that? :rolleyes:


I think its too easy but .....

WC :cool:

[Ian Curtis]

No rule prohibits it, but I haven't been hearing any rumblings on Delphi about anyone being able to hit balls from half-court (where 1.5 of the robots would start).

Not yet anyways... The teams we end up having to watch out for always keep quiet until week 6, or later.

[Nuttyman54]

He asks, of course, because it's not really possible to do that, due to rules and air resistance.

The rule he's referring to is the 12 m/s ball speed limit. I haven't calculated it, but it may, in fact, be impossible (due to air resistance) to hit the center goal from the farthest starting box without breaking that rule.

[BRosser314]

No rule prohibits it, but I haven't been hearing any rumblings on Delphi about anyone being able to hit balls from half-court (where 1.5 of the robots would start).

Allthough there are no rules that prohibit tha, we have been able to shhot balls from half court. :D

[KenWittlief]

I looked up the field drawings and did a quick check

the center starting position box is 27' along the long side of the field to the end, and 13' from the center. Knocking off a few feet to the middle of the box, its 11'.

(27^2 + 11^2) ^ 0.5 = 29 feet to the bottom of the goal at floor height.

The example FIRST gave for the 12M/S ball speed limit says the ball will travel 35 feet if fired at max speed with a 30° angle. Thats 35 feet to where it hits the floor.

So its looking like you would have to exceed the muzzle velocity limit to swish balls through the goal from the center starting postion, or the one further away.

One other factor: the way the bots are all lined up along one side, will the two farthest bots be able to shoot towards the center goal without hitting the next bot in the back of the head?

[mikeday51]

i think the hardest part of this challenge will be that the balls would have to be timed so that they do not hit each other in mid air wich would cause them to bounce off each other and not go in.

[KenWittlief]

i think the hardest part of this challenge will be that the balls would have to be timed so that they do not hit each other in mid air which would cause them to bounce off each other and not go in.

if you do that math on this part of it, lets say you fire at 12M/s and you fire all 10 in 5 seconds.

that means each ball is flying at 1/2 S intervals, which will put them 6 meters apart

thats a lot of space between the balls in flight: 10" balls with 226" of empty space between them

the odds of two balls hitting in flight is 10/226 = about 5 out of 100.

The odds are 20:1 in your favor (no collisions in midair)

[FlyingDutchman]

ya this has nothing to do with the subject but I need help trying to post or what ever it is that you have to do to put a question on the website... thanks

[Andrew Blair]

if you do that math on this part of it, lets say you fire at 12M/s and you fire all 10 in 5 seconds.

that means each ball is flying at 1/2 S intervals, which will put them 6 meters apart

thats a lot of space between the balls in flight: 10" balls with 226" of empty space between them

the odds of two balls hitting in flight is 10/226 = about 5 out of 100.

The odds are 20:1 in your favor (no collisions in midair)

I would be most worried about the goal being able to keep up. Assume that it takes a two seconds to stop a ball and clear it, out of the box, into the chute. Say also, for simplicity sake, that three balls are capable of doing this at the same time. So say you have, best case scenario, 30 balls in ten seconds.

So, you have ten, 3 balls instances of clearing. At two seconds apart. So, to clear all the balls, it would be 10*2 =20 seconds to clear all the balls completely. So, by the end of the ten seconds, there would be ten seconds of balls to clear, backed up. (10/2)*3 balls~15 balls left

So at the end of the period (through my rough estimation), there are fifteen balls to clear, or, towards the end of the autonomous period, there are 10 or 12 to get in the way.

I wonder if 10 or 12 balls, some still jangling around, could present enough of an obstacle to prevent some incoming balls from coming in? And what about the feeder chute? I wonder if that'll jam? I think, on top of needing a killer alliance to do it, this challenge is going to be harder than the intro suggests...

[Wayne C.]

two weeks over- and the TIKI is still safe at home

Thirty balls scored in autonomous? Three robots each getting all three balls in the center goal? A 100 point autonomous round...


Could the challenge AGAIN be beyond the abilities of the ENTIRE FIRST community?

True- the new alliance picking rules seem to inhibit alliances of three hot shooters.

But how many bots are scoring 10 balls in autonomous anyway?

I predict that IF this challenge can be met it wont happen until the elimination rounds at the Nationals.

Until then the TIKI continues to gather dust.....

WC :cool:

[tbush503]

I don't think this challenge is as practical as you think it is.

Some teams don't even have the capability of shooting, and most that do are not that accurate or are going purly on dead reconing as to where the goal is. The chance of getting 3 teams on an alliance that can even shoot in 10 balls in autonomous are slim.

Those robots that use the camera to target take a while to find the light, especially if the camera is hooked up to a slow moving turret. The time it would take to Drive close to the target, track it, and fire ten balls off is far greater than 10 seconds.

The opposing team normally has at least one robot that is programed to simply drive forwards, the idea being that the robot would interfere with an opposing robot and prevent them from scoring. This would throw off almost all dead-reconing shooters and most tracking shooters (at least it would prevent one ball from going in).

This challenge is no small task. It would take, in my opinion, a miracle to accomplish. The chances of it being done are far below 0%.

[Andrew Blair]

After having attended one regional, my previous views on this challenge have changed drastically. Seeing the lack of shooters(including ourselves), and the low autonomous capability of even the better shooters, I think this challenge is nearly impossible. Simply the fact that balls bounce out lower the chances to nearly zero, let alone getting an alliance with that kind of firepower. My thoughts: the Tiki with accumulate another years worth of dust. Perhaps the challenge would be nearly possible if changed to "twenty balls in the center goal during autonomous" or "All thirty balls scored during autonomous, anywhere".

[Cody Carey]

:( (http://www.mcmaster.com/ctlg/DisplCtlgPage.asp?ReqTyp=CATALOG&CtlgPgNbr=958&CtlgEdition=&RelatedCtlgPgs) This leaves us dumpers out of the question :(

[Wayne C.]

So- did anybody do it?

The closest we came was in one round of IRI (that was rerun!) where the three partners got in 27/30 balls.

Anybody get all 30?

WC :cool:

[Andrew Blair]

I didn't hear anything about it. I think the Tiki should just be raffled next year...;)

[Karthik]

So- did anybody do it?

The closest we came was in one round of IRI (that was rerun!) where the three partners got in 27/30 balls.

Anybody get all 30?


Wayne, I thought we nailed 28? Regardless, it's not 30. Can we get a piece of it? What about some of that dust that's coating it?

[Lil' Lavery]

Wayne, I thought we nailed 28? Regardless, it's not 30. Can we get a piece of it? What about some of that dust that's coating it?
Umm, technically that match was restarted. Too bad. ;)

[Tom Bottiglieri]

I remember the Newton division winners came pretty close.

Oh wait, there was a dumper bot on that alliance.. :cool:

[BBnum3]

At Wisconsin during eliminations 111 and 1625 each made all of theirs, but I think that match probably had to be restarted. But hey that's still 100% accuracy, that's got to count for something doesn't it ;) ?