Video editing help!

[animatorkid]

Ny team is having a problem. We found a video editor called avid freedv, and it is great. The problem is, it will not export the video with a dv-ntsc compressor, which is required by first for the 2006 animation. Does anyone know of a free video editor that will export a .mov file using the dv-ntsc compressor?
We have a very small budget for the animation (we're broke!). :D

[Billfred]

iMovie HD (that comes standard on any Mac in recent history) comes with DV/DVCPRO - NTSC as an export option. You'll want to double-check to be sure, but that should work. You'd just need to find a Mac in your immediate vicinity.

[Nuttyman54]

iMovie HD (that comes standard on any Mac in recent history) comes with DV/DVCPRO - NTSC as an export option. You'll want to double-check to be sure, but that should work. You'd just need to find a Mac in your immediate vicinity.

Adobe Premier Pro should be capable of that. you can download a mostly complete 30 day trial version from Adobe

[jfelser]

My team does not have access to a Mac, and although Vegas works to export, the resulting video looks not good at all - much poorer quality than an AVI with DV-NTSC compression of the same size. Any tricks to get .MOV files with better quality while using the DV-NTSC codec?

[BuddyB309]

My team does not have access to a Mac, and although Vegas works to export, the resulting video looks not good at all - much poorer quality than an AVI with DV-NTSC compression of the same size. Any tricks to get .MOV files with better quality while using the DV-NTSC codec?


There is a trick my team found out. You can use the video post in 3ds max as a primitive form of a video editing. Since the required format is in the program already all you have to do is put the uncompressed avi files back into it.

[jfelser]

Even using the 3dsmax export of the video, it is full of artifacts, and does not look acceptable to submit. I'm going to have my friend try to export using Premiere, which we've used in the past, and we'll see whether that gives better results. I admit I am kind of stumped here. Is anyone else having similar problems?

[animatorkid]

Is the DV-NTSC compression format the same as the DV/DVCPRO-NTSC format?

[abroerman]

I'm having the same problem. I'm using Adobe AfterEffects 6.5 and exporting to "DV/DVCPRO - NTSC". The image quality is absolutely terrible - it's impossible to read text and make out details.

Does anyone remember what format we had to render to last year? If we can't find an acceptable solution I'm considering uploading 2 - one crappy one that meets their expectations, and a second using a different (though just as common) codec that looks decent. I'll experiment a little more with the export function to see if I can get it looking OK and let you guys know the results.

Good luck ;)

[BruceJ]

I'm having the same problem. I'm using Adobe AfterEffects 6.5 and exporting to "DV/DVCPRO - NTSC". The image quality is absolutely terrible - it's impossible to read text and make out details.

Does anyone remember what format we had to render to last year? If we can't find an acceptable solution I'm considering uploading 2 - one crappy one that meets their expectations, and a second using a different (though just as common) codec that looks decent. I'll experiment a little more with the export function to see if I can get it looking OK and let you guys know the results.

Good luck ;)

I'm seeing the same terrible look exporting from Premiere 6.0 using DV/DVCPRO - NTSC at 100% quality.

If anyone hears of other options we are allowed to use to improve the quality and keep the file size under 250MB, please post here.

Thanks.

[Team905Animator]

Id have to agree that the new codec requirement is bad. Any idea why they arent letting us use Cinepak this year? At least I was able to read my text efficiently with that.

[jfelser]

Ok, I think I have found the bottom of this codec issue. Seems that Apple came out with a new, improved, DV-NTSC codec with Quicktime 7. Also, if you have QT7, but installed certain other codecs afterwards, it changes the Apple DV codec to a different one, which does not play very well in Quicktime. To fix this issue, install (or reinstall) Quicktime 7 from the link below, and then rerender your animation on the highest settings (4:3 Progressive Scan worked best for me). My animation looks sharper than I've seen it before, even the raw uncompressed version, and is only 135 megs.

Helpful links:
http://www.m2w.net/reviews/dvcompression9808.html - Read about DV-NTSC.
http://www.apple.com/quicktime/download/win.html - Quicktime 7 DL Link.

[animatorkid]

I want to render scenes to the DV-NTSC format, Is this possible?

[Biff]

Is the DV-NTSC compression format the same as the DV/DVCPRO-NTSC format?Yes dvc pro describes the track width on the tape not the data and compression format. (dvcpro50 is another story)

[animatorkid]

Yes dvc pro describes the track width on the tape not the data and compression format. (dvcpro50 is another story)


Huh? :confused:

Could you put that in plain english?
I'm new to compression formats.
:confused: :confused:

[Tom Higgins]

I'm having the same problem and have lost many hours trying all kinds of combinations of settings in exporting the final post production. I've used Adobe Premier for the last two years but exported in quicktime default which is Motion JPEG A compression also in 640 x 480 format. I've exproted in nearly all other codecs and they all seem fine except for the DV/DVCPRO NTSC required by AutoDesk. It's also a large file, ours is 200 MB whereas the "movie" compression gives a great, crisp, and smooth animation. Does anyone know who we might contact at FIRST or AutoDesk to get help on this problem? I've used the Max video post and its difficult to work with and really don't want to start editing again...We're done except for the final render.

Thanks

[Biff]

Huh? :confused:

Could you put that in plain english?
I'm new to compression formats.
:confused: :confused:
OK DVC is both a tape format and a compression format. The first part describes how you record digitally on a DV tape, The second part is how you turn full bandwidth video in a compressed form that you can record on tape or on a computer. The whole story of compression takes many paragraphs to explain including parts of the history of television. Full bandwidth digital television (SDI) is 270mbits/second, DV or DVCPRO compression is 25mbits/second. SDI is also :422 which describes how much color information is skipped as you scan (history of TV) a line DV is :411 which skips more color information (thus helping to leave some data behind) Codex are short names for encode and decode methods that transform TV pictures from on (mostly uncompressed) form to another compressed form, that can be uncompressed and displayed on Computers or on TV monitors. Sorry to ramble so there really is not real short English answer. The other issue is DV/DVCPRO is normally a 720 x 486 frame and if your animation is 640 x 480 you get really bad scaling issues. I can ask some of the animators I've worked with in the past if there is a fast and good method to get a good looking DV/DVCPRO animation.

[jfelser]

@ Tom Higgins - Try reinstalling Quicktime 7 (or installing it new) and rerendering (from Adobe) with the highest possible quality settings, using DV-NTSC.

[BruceJ]

I'm having the same problem and have lost many hours trying all kinds of combinations of settings in exporting the final post production. I've used Adobe Premier for the last two years but exported in quicktime default which is Motion JPEG A compression also in 640 x 480 format. I've exproted in nearly all other codecs and they all seem fine except for the DV/DVCPRO NTSC required by AutoDesk. It's also a large file, ours is 200 MB whereas the "movie" compression gives a great, crisp, and smooth animation. Does anyone know who we might contact at FIRST or AutoDesk to get help on this problem? I've used the Max video post and its difficult to work with and really don't want to start editing again...We're done except for the final render.

Thanks


I have installed QuickTime 7 as suggested, however I still get the same problem using Adobe Premiere 6.0.

Using 3ds Max 8, there is no problem using the DV-NTSC compression.

The alternative I'm going to use is to bring all of the audio and video into Premiere to line everything up, then ouput as a single movie using some method that still looks good (maybe some other compression).

Video post in 3ds max is simple enough just to create an Image input event set to the length of the entire animation and an Image output event set to the DV-NTSC compression for the final Quicktime movie that will be submitted.

Hopefully my plan works. :)

[jfelser]

I tried that strategy, with very poor results, but I'd be curious to see if it works for you, since QT7 did not.

[Tom Higgins]

I'm just wondering....AutoDesk requires 720 X 480 yet Max renders in 720 x 486. We changed the 486 to 480 before we rendered. Is this issue a typo of does it affect any of this? Is there more than one 720 x format? I'll try the QT7 in a minute or so.

[Tom Higgins]

QT7 does not help.

[vadyr]

I'm just wondering....AutoDesk requires 720 X 480 yet Max renders in 720 x 486. We changed the 486 to 480 before we rendered. Is this issue a typo of does it affect any of this? Is there more than one 720 x format? I'll try the QT7 in a minute or so.


we just change 486 to 480 when it renders. each still frame looks a little funny, but when we throw it together in adobe premier it all looks nice

[3DMentorTeam388]

Hello Everybody,

Just to throw some quick help everybodys way. Check out the following site,

www.dv.com

They have some very helpful articales on compression and codec's, plus just about everything else related to Digital Video. Also check out their forum section. You will find alot of helpful people, and sections devoted to 3D effects and authoring.

Lee

[BruceJ]

My method has seemed to work ok - using max video post for the final quicktime output.

Also, I found out that by rendering different scenes as targa file sequences and bringing these into video post, the video post conversion to quicktime only takes about 5 minutes.

So if anything needs to change, just render the new frames needed and run through the video post again.

I also found that a free image viewer utility called Irfanview can rename files as a batch process. Very helpful when I'm replacing frames in the middle of the sequence.

When rendering a scene in Max as a file sequence, it seems to name each file with the frame number. That's fine if your whole animation is one scene, but does anyone know how to give it a starting frame such as Anim0078.tga and have it continue rendering more frames as Anim0079.tga, Anim0080.tga, etc?

If so, it would save the step of using Irfanview to rename the files.

[MattK]

Okay first of all, go to Adobe.com and download the free trial of Adobe Priemere Pro. Import your video into Adobe and then render it out at full quality. When you play your video back on your computer it will prob look crappy- but if you burn it to a DVD it will look fine on a normal TV. From my understanding its a mis-match of the resolution of the video and the res of your monitor.

[jfelser]

There is also a setting, in Quicktime, called 'Enable High Quality Video' which supposedly can make a significant difference in the quality of some videos, although it did not look terribly different for my team's.

[Tom Higgins]

I got a little help from autodesk support and a discreet discussion forum. I haven't tried any of this yet but it may help. These were two seperate comments I got and left the names off since they would not know I would end up quoting them here. If this works for anyone let us know. I'll be working on it Saturday.



"Render an image sequence out of max (png or tga) instead of quicktime so there’s no compression issues from max to premier
Bring image sequence into Premier
Render Quicktime out of Premier using the correct codec."



"dv is 720x480, 29.97 fps and lower field dominant... period.

i'd suggest rendering image sequences from max at 720x480 with a pixel aspect ratio of 0.9 for 4x3 "regular" tv. [1.2 for 16x9 widescreen full frame]. frames or fields, your call there. since max cant work at 29.97, you'll be going thru a slight frame rate conversion anyway. let premiere do this.

i'd recommend never, and i mean ever rendering to a compressed format from max. let premiere do this on the final output."

[Tom Higgins]

This should probably be another thread....but now I can't get max to render with sound. I am using video post got my video sequenced and rendered nicley then I "added exteral event" for each of the sound tracks...imported them (they show up as windows icons with the names I gave them) ....and they are wave files. I added an external event and rendered but the rendering stops as soon as the wav file starts in the sequence. There is so little option in video post that it is quite annoying. I've used Premier in the past and this was no problem but now with the new compression requirements, I've been getting really blurry outputs but they had sound.
To avoid having to do all the post production stuff from scratch I used the completely edited scenes from premier and exported them to video post as a series of targa files. I then rendered them in max in the required format and they came out nice. But now sound is the issue. I guess I just can remember how to add sound tracks in video post and get them to render with the video. Today's pretty much it for us...if anyone can help? Really desperate

[BruceJ]

What I did was export the entire soundtrack from Premiere as one .wav file.

In 3ds max, use the track view and look for sound. Right-click the "sound" to open up the properties dialog. Set it to be your soundtrack .wav file.

In video post, simply do the video part (your targa sequence) as the input image event, and use the Quicktime as the output event.

Execute/run the video post and the sound should be picked up from the track view you set.

Just make sure the soundtrack from Premiere (export timeline - audio only) is in sync with the beginning of your targa sequence.

[Tom Higgins]

I'm confused. First, as I understand, yu want me to export the video track as a .wav file and then later you mention that you need to export the sound track as a .mov file audio only??

[BruceJ]

I'm confused. First, as I understand, yu want me to export the video track as a .wav file and then later you mention that you need to export the sound track as a .mov file audio only??

Export the Audio track from Premiere. You already have the video sequence you need as I understand it (the image files, targas, etc.)

Export the timeline in Premiere as Audio only to get a .wav file.
This is the audio soundtrack to your entire animation.

To bring it together with your image files to create the Quicktime movie, go to 3ds Max and open the Track View (under graph editors) and select and right-click "sound" to get "properties". Select "choose sound" and your .wav file there.

Now 3ds Max video post will put it together with your images that I assume you have defined in Video post as an image input event.

In video post, create an output image event (if you haven't already) to export the video post to a Quicktime file.

The .wav you created from Premiere and imported using the 3ds Max track view should be the audio that plays when you view the Quicktime movie that you created by running the Video Post in 3ds Max.

[animatorkid]

"There is also a setting, in Quicktime, called 'Enable High Quality Video' which supposedly can make a significant difference in the quality"

DO THIS!!!!!!! It works. If you render in the highest possible quality, and then olay the movie with this setting on, it looks almost uncompressed. And yet, it is compressed, becayse it brought our file size down from 800 megs to 80. :D

[tchescow]

Team 1156 used ulead video studio 7, ulead video studio 9, pinnacle studio plus 9, pinnacle liquid 6, quicktime and nothing worked! The animation looks like a 320x240 video enlarged to a larger one. We really need help! :eek: :confused: :ahh:

[gopstopper]

premiere.
I often use presentavid 4 such simple edition