Standard Joysticks

[EricWilliams]

2 years in a row now we've had problems with the standard joysticks in the kit of parts. Last year one joystick had no X-Axis control, the potentiometer was dead. This year every time we move the sticks, we have to re-adjust the trim, because the potentiometer is too loose. We're going to get some new joysticks, does anyone have any ideas on a good one?

[SoftwareBug2.0]

My team's first year, we just disabled the trims and made it so that they couldn't move at all. I know that this isn't what you're hoping for, but it might help you in the mean time.

[Astronouth7303]

Buy a pre-2004 pair off a defunct team. We're still using them.

From what I've heard, analog joysticks are really hard to find these days. I wish you the best of luck.

[EricWilliams]

Another awsome idea from Astro... you're my hero man. We still have a few pre-2004 joysticks lying around somewhere, which we definitely might use. The only problem with new/old joysticks... we'll have to find the pinout diagrams :( .

[SoftwareBug2.0]

I may be mistaken, but I believe the pinout should be the same except that pins that go to buttons that don't exist on the old joysticks won't do anything.

[Astronouth7303]

They're identical. The D-Pad/POV hat on the new sticks actually hooks up to an analog channel.

On the old sticks, you have:

p?_x
p?_y
p?_wheel
p?_sw_top
p?_sw_trig


Everything else is wide open. (Just don't screw up you're sticks to badly, as they're hard to replace.)

[artdutra04]

Have you considered customizing the KOP joysticks? Most of their issues can be solved mechanically. By either creating custom handles or adding/altering the springs in the base/handle itself, you can also stiffen it up. I discussed customizing the either the KOP joysticks of the old CH Flightsticks in these two posts:

http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/showpost.php?p=425461&postcount=13

http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/showpost.php?p=432292&postcount=5

I've gotton so many requests for more information about our team's 2005 operator interface, I think I should just write a white paper about customizing joysticks. :) But that might have to wait until after the ship date though... :yikes:

[kaszeta]

Buy a pre-2004 pair off a defunct team. We're still using them.

From what I've heard, analog joysticks are really hard to find these days. I wish you the best of luck.

I'll second this recommendation. CH Flighsticks (what they used in previous years) are frequently sought after items. I'm thinking of cleaning up some of our team's ancient crusty ones (and I mean crusty!) and seeing if we can trade them to newer teams.

Ebay is still a decent resource for these, as well as some of the more rare gameport devices such as Flightstick Pros (with a full hat on them like the current sticks, but still ambidextrous), CH Throttles, Pedals, etc. We're probably going to use a CH Throttle and Flightstick Pro combo this year, although we also have a handmade throttle that's worked well in the past (made from a pressure cylinder and transducer, actually).

[samson234]

This may be a stupid question, but why is it FIRST changed to a different joystick? I have driven with both new and old, and the old joysticks are far superior? Also, why is it they give us two right handed joysticks? Is FIRST trying to phase out left handed drivers?

[Alan Anderson]

Stupid question or no, the answer is easy. The new joysticks are available; the old ones are not.

[kaszeta]

This may be a stupid question, but why is it FIRST changed to a different joystick?

The answer is simple enough: the company that made the old joysticks (CH Flightsticks) stopped making them. FIRST can't supply what they can't get.

[DjAlamose]

If I was you I would just use ps2 or x-box controllers. Most good drivers play video games of some kind and what better to give them than something that they are used to?? Plus you will have all sorts of options with what you can do, 10 buttons and two analog sticks.

[computer411]

I hear you my friend. We were a brand new team last year and were fed up with the joysticks. So we wwent to CH products OEM Department that makes industrial joysticks. They still sell models that use 100k computer potentiometers. The only drawback is they are slightly expensive and you have to wire them into the OI yourself, no preassembeled connectors.

[TimeOut]

We are looking for a standard joystick that has rudder control built in. But finding standard gameport joysticks is getting difficult.

Anyone have any ideas for a knob that is self centering? The idea is to be able to turn the knob and then release it so it will move back to neutral. (rotation control). I was thinking of maybe a Jog control from an old VCR but that's even getting hard to find!

Sean

[Dillon Compton]

Hey all,
I'm on a computer at school right now so I dont have the web address, but when I was researching joystick options for my team earlier this year I found an online supplier of dexxa gameport joysticks (after some significant digging through froogle), w/ hat and 5 buttons, I believe, for about ten dollars each. We ended up going with a local supplier for gameport joysticks, and havent purchased or used these dexxa's yet(but we are planning on purchasing 4 or 5 so that we have some stockpiled...). Additionally, I contacted CH systems and their newer, USB sticks use the same model of 100k potentiometer that their gameport sticks did. If I am not completly mistaken, these new CHs should then be fairly easily moddable to a gameport output with our friend the db-15 solder cup and some wire + basic wiring/soldering skills.

I'll post the link to the Dexxa stick supplier in the morning, so stay tuned.


-Dillon Compton

[Dad1279]

The MacIntosh version of the CH Flightstick also uses the same potentiometers. Just found a new(old) one on ebay. It would need to be rewired also.

[Dillon Compton]

Hey All-

As promised, I have a link for you guys.

http://www.masteryrobotics.org/resources.htm

It's about 1/2 way down the page, with a red, italic, bold, "NEW!" next to it!

Enjoy the gameport sticks!

-Dillon Compton
team 1394

[the_short1]

We use pre2004 joysticks from the CanadianFirst robotics comp. that my school was involved with in 2002, and they work wonders! (black ones)

hard to find you say?? check ValueVillage / PawnShops! ive seen them there before

[dude__hi]

One of our team's members incorporated the controls of two typical joysticks into one model airplane control...works great

[dubious elise]

Dillon, thanks so much for your information - we may want to purchase those in the future!

In the mean time, there is a company selling old Flightsticks (the ones with the white bottoms) here (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000050ZS8/102-9467714-4814528?n=172282)

[Kingofl337]

I also recommend Xbox360 controlers. They work very well to control your robot.
If you like tank drive use PS/2 controlers.

[Jack Jones]

Solution #1:
IFI joins the present and introduces USB inputs.
Solution #2:
Pull cables from KOP POS joysticks - use them to direct wire modern USB joys or game pads.

[Matt Krass]

Solution #1:
IFI joins the present and introduces USB inputs.


I keep seeing this one, and it annoys me somewhat because USB is not entirely "Plug and Play" it only seems that way because Windows has a lot of drivers to deal with various parts. USB is a serial interface, and controls can have any number of various protocols, or an entirely custom one, there's no simple way to make the OI instantly recognize and use a USB joystick, it's model specific in most cases. Yes, USB would be great, no it isn't that simple.

I think they should definitely look in to getting a company like CH to supply the parts for us to have joystick kits, I know a few teams have gone that route, and it would allow for even greater variety in controls.

[sanddrag]

Somebody needs to look into how much it would cost to buy out the rights (and even the original molds if they still exist) to reproduce the Old Style CH Flightstick joysticks.

[pathew100]

Everyone, Team 862 has solved your problem:

Playstation 2 Adapter (http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/showthread.php?t=42663)

Link is to the discussion and white paper for our adapter. Build the circuit, download the code into the PIC, plug in your off-the-shelf PS2 controller and away you go!

It is competition legal, our 2006 robot is driven off these. One for driver and one for co-pilot.

Winner of the "Delphi Driving Tomorrow's Technology" award at the 2006 Milwaukee Regional.

[sur2124]

Or, you can go cheap, and do what my team did. Calibrate your joysticks then put ducktape on the wheels so nobody can change them by accident. By the way Why do they give us right-handed joysticks?

[razor95kds]

I also recommend Xbox360 controlers. They work very well to control your robot.
If you like tank drive use PS/2 controlers.

the only problem to that sollution is that they use the wrong input. Our programmer completly rewireded an XBOX 360 controller so it plugs into the OI. All the buttons are functional and he utilized the pressure sensitive triggers to adjust how fast our shooter was spinning, too bad we removed the shooter at our second regional though. We did not use the controller this year because we finished our robot late and did not have enough time to get used to driving with a XBOX 360 controller.