View Full Version : Attention tipped over robots! Please use the e-stop button.
sanddrag
14-03-2006, 00:00
As I understand it, if a robot is disabled by means of the e-stop button, the alliance is no longer required to have a backbot. (please correct me if this is untrue) So, for the courtesy to your alliance, if you tip over, please hit the e-stop button. Thank you.
Tom Bottiglieri
14-03-2006, 00:12
The backbot rule states a team can have a maximum of 2 operable robots on the close side of the field while on defense. If a robot flips, it is inoperable. It does need to be e-stopped.
Wait, so if a robot tips, the a backbot is no longer required?
I wish I knew that!
Jack Jones
14-03-2006, 00:16
Right on about the flipped over bot. The E-stop advice applies to when the drive train and such goes away.
Wait, so if a robot tips, the a backbot is no longer required?
I wish I knew that!
Yes, but you must hit your E-stop button.
Hmmm, I'll tell my drivers that, they might have not known that.
Thanks!
the ref explained this at buckeye before our first match, but there were still teams that sat onsides disabled and raked up 40 points off offsides bonus.
Yes, but you must hit your E-stop button.
Ethulin,
Please reread Tom's post from above. What he said was consistent with the refs ruling at Pittsburgh. If your robots tipped it was inoperable and considered disabled. You only have to hit the E-stop if you have a disabled upright robot for it not to count offsides.
Best,
Wayne
EricRobodox
14-03-2006, 03:53
I think you have to hit the e-stop button. A team in Arizona got offside penalty when flipped over because the did not hit their e-stop button until a few seconds after they fliped. I think you have to hit the e-stop button once fliped so you dont get the backbot penalty.
Could some one show me in the rules were this is so. I have seen robots tipped over and there still had to be a back bot. The only exception that I have seen to have no back bot is when there is only 2 teams in the alliance.
Lisa Perez
14-03-2006, 07:29
Here's what I found:
<G26> ROBOT Off Sides - During the SECOND and THIRD PERIODS the ALLIANCE on defense can have at most two (2) operable* ROBOTS on the defensive end of the field (the near end of the field, from the ALLIANCE point of view). If the ALLIANCE has a third operable ROBOT, that ROBOT (the BACKBOT) must be positioned on the end of the field farthest from the ALLIANCE STATION.
...
* Note: a ROBOT will be considered operable unless the robot has fallen over and cannot be righted, or the ROBOT has been disabled by the field control system, or the team has pushed the "E-Stop" button to disable the ROBOT. Loss of control due to operator error, user software errors, or faulty mechanical systems are not sufficient to cause a ROBOT to be classified as "inoperable."
DjAlamose
14-03-2006, 07:29
* Note: a ROBOT will be considered operable unless the robot has fallen over and cannot
be righted, or the ROBOT has been disabled by the field control system, or the team has
pushed the "E-Stop" button to disable the ROBOT. Loss of control due to operator error,
user software errors, or faulty mechanical systems are not sufficient to cause a ROBOT to
be classified as "inoperable."
This was taken directly from update 15
KenWittlief
14-03-2006, 08:48
I would never hit the Estop button unless your robot is out of control.
I have seen too many matches where a robot is tipped over, and some how or other it ends up back on its wheels
the rule quoted above says ...OR....OR....OR......
NOT ....AND....AND.....AND.....
Kevin Sevcik
14-03-2006, 10:02
I'll agree with Ken. There are occasions to hit the e-stop, though. In our first round, we got hit with the 8.2V bug, so I had the drivers hit the E-Stop since the robot was just moving back and forth and not responding to controls anyways.
In years past, I recall that it was possible to reenable your robot using that same button. Is that still possible?
...I'm imagining a situation where a robot is 'disabled' in front of a corner goal for the duration of a period and reenabled so as to continue playing.
I'm not saying I'd do it, but I'm curious if it's possible.
In years past, I recall that it was possible to reenable your robot using that same button. Is that still possible?
...I'm imagining a situation where a robot is 'disabled' in front of a corner goal for the duration of a period and reenabled so as to continue playing.
I'm not saying I'd do it, but I'm curious if it's possible.
No. Once disabled you are down for the count.
Wetzel
Stu Bloom
14-03-2006, 11:20
This will be discussed in the Head Referee conference call as I don't believe the referees have any way of knowing if an E-stop button has been used. I'll report back on this issue after the call.
PLEASE NOTE though, that the head referee at the event makes the final call. It is always best to ask the question at the driver's meeting prior to the start of competition.
This will be discussed in the Head Referee conference call as I don't believe the referees have any way of knowing if an E-stop button has been used. I'll report back on this issue after the call.
PLEASE NOTE though, that the head referee at the event makes the final call. It is always best to ask the question at the driver's meeting prior to the start of competition.
I thought your team station light flashed when your disabled, via estop or via field disable.
In any case, if you KNOW you wont be able to be righted, might as well hit the estop just to be sure.
Godzilla!
14-03-2006, 12:16
I guess I would look at the e-stop/robot disabled from a slightly different point of view - If I were a team starting to play defence in the alliance zone with 3 robots and I did not want to get a penalty for having more than 2 operable robots on defence at any given time I would do my best to insure I took an action whereby the Head Ref would not have to ask him/her self "Are they Disabled?" and the answer should have been an immediate YES!
Now, what action could that be?
1. Hope the ref knows that since my robot is not upright it must be
disabled - right?
2. Have my robot catch on fire/emit copious amounts of smoke and shutting down the match (used a couple of times at GLR) thereby avoiding a penalty
or
3. Use the e-stop for my robot (not the alliance member on the right) and give a clear concise signal that my robot is disabled
I would vote for #3 - #3 my lord ( :rolleyes: oops sorry have Shrek on my mind).
When taking this action the corresponding light over the team station starts to blink which among other things means that the robot is disabled.
A riskier path to take is for the driver to assume that since the robot is not upright that must mean to the Head Ref that the robot is disabled.
At GLR I saw a robot that was tipped over during auto and was the 3'rd robot when on defence. I gave the alliance a grace period to see if they would disable the robot and luckily for the alliance one of the running robots went to the other side of the field to wait.
I said luckily because I did not know for sure if the robot was really disabled because when offense for this alliance was ran the robot righted itself and continued to play the game. If the team did not send a running robot over to the other side of the field I would have awarded offside points and would have been correct to do so especially when the robot joined in when offence was ran and thru it's actions was clearly NOT disabled.
-Per last nights head ref discussion. If the team playing defence had not sent a running robot over to the other side of the field during defence and given that the "tipped over" was righted whe it was their turn for offfence they could have been awarded a 40 point offside penalty.
Choose wisely grasshopper
mtaman02
14-03-2006, 14:10
I thought your team station light flashed when your disabled, via estop or via field disable.
In any case, if you KNOW you wont be able to be righted, might as well hit the estop just to be sure.
Yeah I believe that once the E-Stop is pushed down the light over that particular station should flash 2 or 3 times then repeat to let field control the E-Stop is down - Field Control will also see that the E-stop is down via the scoring system which has a special line that shows the E-Stop Status.
Fill free to correct me if I'm wrong, I know the scoring system has that function I just don't remember how many times the light flashes to signal the E-Stop is down.
Kims Robot
14-03-2006, 14:17
A VERY safe way to show that you have no control of your robot is to have the entire drive team hold their hands up in the air.
We lost control of our robot in a match (it wasnt hurting anyone, though it shoved another robot into the corner even though we were trying to back off) because it never came out of autonomous. Our drivers didnt think of hitting the estop, but they threw their hands up in the air after trying to back away unsuccessfully, and were NOT called for pinning because they did not have control.
Per update 15 if a robot has NO way to right itself, you do not need a backbot. The intention is that you only have 2 robots running interference, theoretically so that one robot can score at all times.
Kevin Sevcik
14-03-2006, 14:18
The light blinks constantly, just like it does before you connect a control system and have communication with your robot. And E-Stops can't be undone. After scoring the 2000 game and constantly running about resetting E-Stops, I'm just a bit familiar with how they work.
Stephen Kowski
14-03-2006, 14:31
As I understand it, if a robot is disabled by means of the e-stop button, the alliance is no longer required to have a backbot. (please correct me if this is untrue) So, for the courtesy to your alliance, if you tip over, please hit the e-stop button. Thank you.
^^ this is not the correct interpretation
If three robots are on the field for an alliance at the start of the match, then the alliance must have a backbot during all defensive periods of the game. If one of the alliance robots is disabled during the match, then it is up to the two remaining alliance members to either bocome the backbot, or move the disabled robot into an appropriate position such that it can be the backbot.
DjAlamose
14-03-2006, 14:38
^^ this is not the correct interpretation
Yes it is:
ROBOT Off Sides - During the SECOND and THIRD PERIODS the ALLIANCE on
defense can have at most two (2) operable* ROBOTS on the defensive end of the field (the
near end of the field, from the ALLIANCE point of view). If the ALLIANCE has a third
operable ROBOT, that ROBOT (the BACKBOT) must be positioned on the end of the field
farthest from the ALLIANCE STATION.
* Note: a ROBOT will be considered operable unless the robot has fallen over and cannot
be righted, or the ROBOT has been disabled by the field control system, or the team has
pushed the "E-Stop" button to disable the ROBOT. Loss of control due to operator error,
user software errors, or faulty mechanical systems are not sufficient to cause a ROBOT to
be classified as "inoperable."
As stated by the GDC, updates take precedence over what is stated in the Q&A. This is an old answer (02-02-06)to the question and a new answer in update 15 was posted. So disabling your robot during a match is valid for avoiding backbot penalties.
vBulletin® v3.6.4, Copyright ©2000-2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.