American Inventor

[Greg Perkins]

Who is going to watch This (http://abc.go.com/primetime/americaninventor/index.html) on ABC tonight at 9/8c?? I am looking forward to this, granted its produced by the same producers as "American Idol" it looks rather educational. What are your thoughts?

[Alex Cormier]

Ahh, thanks for the heads up i was interested int that when i first saw the commercial. I'm sure to keep that time frame open and get to it. It does look educational and I'm just waiting for myself to invent something.

[Freddy Schurr]

Yes, I too will be watching the show tonight while drafting the second round of the Philly Regional FFL

[Morgan Gillespie]

I honestly thought it was a great idea as a show, I mean I will watch it but honestly there isn’t that big of a market for that kind of stuff. Even the Discovery Channel jazzes up their shows because a lot of people think they are boring… I don’t like the jazzing but I mean I am a small market… I also watch the History channel… Now I also love cartoons, anime, and CSI so don’t think I just watch EDTV.

[Tim566]

I believe this should be moved to like the chit-chat thread but I may be mistaken.
either way, I think the show looks interesting.

[rangersteve]

This looks really interesting. I dont think I will be home in time to watch it though. At least not all of it. Thanks for bringing it to my attention though.

[KenWittlief]

From my experience TV producers almost never get things right. I will watch it tonight, with a grain of salt right next to the remote :^)

[Rick TYler]

Who is going to watch This (http://abc.go.com/primetime/americaninventor/index.html) on ABC tonight at 9/8c?? I am looking forward to this, granted its produced by the same producers as "American Idol" it looks rather educational. What are your thoughts?

Three of the four judges do not have a technical background. I predict an electric dogwasher will win.

[Greg Perkins]

See my views on it are: Yes we are getting sucked into another reality show...However, this show seems to actually stimulate our minds rather than to numb us by drama and music. All the other reality shows you know are not "reality" there is so much that goes on behind the scenes that is scripted. This show, albeit scripted, is way more rewarding then watching people sing.

[KenWittlief]

How come when I click on the link its says its on:

THURSDAYS 9/8c

and then right below it says:

NEXT EPISODE: PREMIERE MARCH 16TH at 8/7c (tonight)

?!

those are suppose to be times, right? Not degrees Celsius?

What time is it really on tonight?

[Greg Perkins]

oops, my bad...I apparently cannot read at work...it is at 8/7c Sorry for the confusion.

[SizzelChest330]

I plan on watching tonight

Should be pretty funny/different

[Matt Krass]

Agh! BAD LINES!
DRAMA!
Judges without technical knowledge!

The opening sequence already turned me away, hopefully they can do better.

[Alex Cormier]

hahaha, first one was a protable toilet thing! ahha

[Steve S.]

hmm...this is very interesting......im tired of it already

[Not2B]

I'm OK with marketing people on the board. Maybe one more technical person would be nice... but marketing is important.

I hear that BetaMax is WAY better than VHS. But VHS had the marketing folks.

P.S. - I'm getting a boot holder.

[Michelle Celio]

I was really excited when I first heard about this but now it's like, I'm not to sure if I like it or not. The inventions just seem like something they came up with over night for comedic appeal. I'll probably land up watching the rest of it, just to see but I don't think it's going to be that good.

[Greg Marra]

Where do I recognize this host from?

[Michelle Celio]

Where do I recognize this host from?
I think he used to do the Funny Animal Videos on Animal Planet

[Stuart]

. . . so how can they have a show called American inventor . . when none of people decideing whats good and whats not are inventors.

unfortunately I dint see any thing coming out of this show being good . . . but thats pronely my philosophy of engineering making the products first then marketing selling them . . not marketing telling engineers what they should build.

[Greg Marra]

I think he used to do the Funny Animal Videos on Animal Planet

Good call.

[Koko Ed]

Three of the four judges do not have a technical background. I predict an electric dogwasher will win.
No the "cute" one will win.

[Morgan Gillespie]

So far my favorite invention was the sand shovel. I mean not because of the sand but because its versatility. One thing I thought of that you could use it for that he didn’t mention was snow. I mean whenever I shovel snow I hate digging, twisting and dumping and repeating yet with that shovel I could do it with one simple motion. It’s a yes!

[Not2B]

OK... my wife works in advertising, and I am an engineer.

You can't have one without the other.

But we both decided this will QUICKLY become....

"AMERICAN MARKETER!"

[Billfred]

Indeed, it does look like there's quite a bit of pitchman to it. Of course, how could you make an inventor competition that didn't incorporate as much?

And what was with that tube thing?

[|20807 61|2|_]

This show looks really funny and i like the judge Doug. I really like the solar powered cooler seems likea really good idea, im glad that they put him through! the tizzy tube was reaaallly weird

[Joe Matt]

I'm OK with marketing people on the board. Maybe one more technical person would be nice... but marketing is important.

I hear that BetaMax is WAY better than VHS. But VHS had the marketing folks.

P.S. - I'm getting a boot holder.

Hmmm, really?

I thought it was the fact Sony didn't license BetaMax to the porn industry that did them in (and VHS did).

[Simon Strauss]

call me jaded but as a FIRSTer i expect Segway, or omni directional grade inventions in order to be even remotely interested and the stuff on this show is nowhere near that grade.

[|20807 61|2|_]

i thought there would have been more roboticsish things but... i guess thats not what america is interested in... except for like all highschoolers lol okay I LIKED THE 14 YEAR OLD HE SHOULD'VE GOTTEN THROUGH! :eek: :mad: :ahh:

[Alex Cormier]

I see this show as crap and a slap in the face of americans. This panel of judges seem like idiots. They look into the person more then what they have brought to the table as an invention. Plus, whats with all these people spending 10,000+ on a hiunch that they can win 1 million dollars and be on tv. Is tv that amazing that you must make some inventions, which most are hideous and stupid to have your 15 minutes of fame and a shot at 1 million dollars? As i say more then 75% of New York's inventors got shot down.

[Dillon Compton]

Wow, fast responding thread...

I think this show was terrible.

That said, I'll keep watching it.

I do still think that the averager firster, given the amount of money the average individual on this program seems to have invested, could easily out-invent any of the people I've seen so far. Oh, and they totally needed to get Dean Kamen to guest judge!

[KenWittlief]

Ever see a video of a train wreck, where the engine goes off the track, and you think the rest of the cars will stop

but they dont, and one by one they all keep going off the track

thats what this was - a two hour slow motion train wreck!

The only thing I saw on the show that had any technical merit was the solar powered ice box - but the inventor had no concept of energy or power or heat transfer. You would need a very large and expensive solar panel to power a portable ice chest

and you would want the solar panel in the sun, and the ice chest in the shade. Nobody is going to pay $600 for a marginal ice chest they will use 3 times a year, esp when a bag of ice and a Coleman Cooler cost about $20.

This show is a good indication that the average person has no idea what engineering is really like, or what its all about.

One high point, that kid with the window fan for dogs - I want him on my FIRST team when he's in HS :^) Im glad he didnt win, being the winner of this show would have screwed up his life - Id rather see him keep plugging away at his ideas, and goto MIT & become a real engineer.

[JamesBrown]

Well the show was OK at best. I could not stand the judges.

The solar cooler was cool but would probably be very expensive and would not do well because of that.

Doug Hall is the "inventor" judge what did he invent, they keep talking about it but I am yet to find any thing in my google search that he has done recently.

[Andy A.]

I'm surprised that people have such an issue with the strong lean towered the marketing aspect of invention.

Marketing is a huge part of making a successful invention. And successful means getting sold.

I was surprised that the young kid with the doggie A/C didn't make it. Not only did he have a surprising amount of charisma and savvy ("you have to have a kid, it's just good TV!") I thought that the judges didn't 'get' the invention. One judge commented that it couldn't be any good because you can't put a dog in a hot car when the very purpose of the invention was to allow you to.

Obviously, there was a great deal cut out of that segment. All the segments I'm sure. Guess which part?

Yup, the part where he explains how it works. I would have liked to see how he put it all together (looked like a copper pipe was hung out the window and coiled in front of a fan that blew into the car. Seems like it wouldn't work as is, but we may never know now) or how about the solar powered cooler? To much technical stuff for the average folk I guess. Disappointing overall.

-Andy A.

[BoyWithCape195]

http://www.doughall.com/

Theres stuff about him on his website...

[i like dirt]

I dont understand why the show is called "American Inventor" when clearly every contestant in the show had an innovation. They just added on to a invented device or idea. Last I checked, that's called an innovation. The show should be called "American Innovator". The principle is just wrong.

[Justin Montois]

Why dosent just Dean go on the show and it will be overwith

[windup zeppelin]

i liked the old guy with the smoke gun. its a nice show, have a good invention and maybe get monwy to really expand. hmmm

[blue_crew]

Way too many commercials!! they would have one "invention" then commercial...then again...and again.
It might be cool toward the end though.
I wonder how many people watched it (other then FIRSTers)???

[ArmoredFairy698]

But you know...the wierdest/worst invention of the night that's still got me in a tizzy is:

THE SPACE BEETLES.

::ugh:: :eek:

I mean, come on, what WAS that guy thinking?!

[Rick TYler]

unfortunately I dint see any thing coming out of this show being good . . . but thats pronely my philosophy of engineering making the products first then marketing selling them . . not marketing telling engineers what they should build.

I hate to tell you this, but in the real world, marketing tells engineering what to design and then manufacturing builds it. Smart engineers rely on direction from smart marketing people who understand the market AND the capabilities of their engineering group. Smart marketing people listen carefully to customers, competitors, and engineers before defining product requirements. No single part of the product development process owns the One Truth. If you learn anything from FIRST, let it be that successful enterprises rely on teamwork -- including what you might consider useless scum like marketing, sales, and finance.

[Morgan Gillespie]

I'm surprised that people have such an issue with the strong lean towered the marketing aspect of invention.

Marketing is a huge part of making a successful invention. And successful means getting sold.

I was surprised that the young kid with the doggie A/C didn't make it. Not only did he have a surprising amount of charisma and savvy ("you have to have a kid, it's just good TV!") I thought that the judges didn't 'get' the invention. One judge commented that it couldn't be any good because you can't put a dog in a hot car when the very purpose of the invention was to allow you to.

Obviously, there was a great deal cut out of that segment. All the segments I'm sure. Guess which part?

Yup, the part where he explains how it works. I would have liked to see how he put it all together (looked like a copper pipe was hung out the window and coiled in front of a fan that blew into the car. Seems like it wouldn't work as is, but we may never know now) or how about the solar powered cooler? To much technical stuff for the average folk I guess. Disappointing overall.

-Andy A.
I have put some thought into it and realized why this wouldn't work and/or sell. Not only would a tiny fan do absolutely nothing to the 140 degrees that a car can heat up to but even if it could the items in the car will still be hot. First off you would need a fan the size of the window and second off something that big could be smashed in and used to break into cars. Also with this product there is the chance of a failure, which in this case if there is the user will die. Having a product like that must be perfect, and will be too expensive to be plausible. Not only that people will be convinced if it is good enough for a dog it is good enough for a baby, now a dog dying because of a failure is one thing but a baby is a terrible terrible lawsuit.

[KenWittlief]

Not only that people will be convinced if it is good enough for a dog it is good enough for a baby, now a dog dying because of a failure is one thing but a baby is a terrible terrible lawsuit.

your post is correct, on all counts. If ventilating a car was all you needed to do then car manufacturers could easily move the wire for the heater blower to the always-on part of the fuse box, and you could leave the blower thats already built into your car run while its parked

which is a big blower BTW, and its already there. They dont do this for the same reasons: failure results in death. There is no reason to ever leave an animal or a child in a car alone.

[Greg Perkins]

So I was fairly dissappointed with this show, but strangely amused. I mean some of these inventions were so awful that you know someone had scripted it. I mean come on, clothes for your car???!?!? the "bladder buddy"???!??!??! the personal "protection wand"???!?!?! The judges were very rude, garanteed that they have to see these horrible inventions (which weren't even inventions) they should not belittle the contestants. I'll continue to watch it, because like any other reality show it will get better as the episodes continue.

[KenWittlief]

I hate to tell you this, but in the real world, marketing tells engineering what to design and then manufacturing builds it. ....

Rick is right, for some products. This is called customer driven development.

The stuff on this show was developed all backwards. For some products market research people do poll customers to find out the big W's (what people want and why they need it). That is the first step in the engineering design cycle.

And thats what was missing on this show. People just went out and created stuff they thought was neat or clever, and now they are trying to sell their ideas to the panel of judges. It dont work that way in real life.

The other type of engineering deveolopment is technology-driven. This happens when a new technology becomes available or is invented by the parent company, which allows new products to be developed, or to improve present products.

A good example: LCDs. They first appeared in digital watches and kitchen timers - then as they grew in size, and color became available they were designed into laptop computers, camera viewfinders, video projectors, PDA's became possible... These were all technology-driven projects.

On American Inventor I did not see any technology driven designs.

[Daniel_LaFleur]

I have put some thought into it and realized why this wouldn't work and/or sell. Not only would a tiny fan do absolutely nothing to the 140 degrees that a car can heat up to but even if it could the items in the car will still be hot. First off you would need a fan the size of the window and second off something that big could be smashed in and used to break into cars. Also with this product there is the chance of a failure, which in this case if there is the user will die. Having a product like that must be perfect, and will be too expensive to be plausible. Not only that people will be convinced if it is good enough for a dog it is good enough for a baby, now a dog dying because of a failure is one thing but a baby is a terrible terrible lawsuit.

Its called a DFMEA (or design failure mode and effect analysis). DFMEA rates the effect, how often it occurs, and how easy it is to detect (before the failure happens, this is usually if it can be detected in the factory). These numbers are multiplied together to get a DFMEA rating.

In the above case effect would be a 10 (death of user), so for this to be a viable product the occurence would have to be very low (under 1 part per 10 million, or ~2) and the failure detection would have to be almost flawless (also ~2). Neither of these are likely. Most automobile companies work with DFMEA numbers under 80.

[Ryan Foley]

Odd, I actually liked ths show.

I like the show, partly because I think Doug Hall is awesome, and I also like seeing all the wierd stuff people think of. I'm interested to see how people develop these inventions with the aid of $50,000.

Now to respond to some things:

About the lack of technically complex/ engineering based inventions. Keep in mind who is watching the show. Most of the general public does not have a technical or engineering background. Many FIRSTers like technical things, heck we build robots for fun so of course we want to see something like a segway. Remember though, that just because an invention is some complex marvel of engineering doesnt mean it will sell to the general public*. Remember the KISS principle. After seeing the sand bag shovel, my dad said I should design a dump truck that does it automatically. I stopped for a second and thought about this. The shovel does the job fine, costs less, and would be easy to transport and use. A dump truck would cost a lot more money, be hard to transport, and would require some training to use. Why make something more complicated than is has to be? Think of the Segway. Many FIRSTers love the segway because the engineering that went into it is amazing, it's a sweet ride, and Dean invented it. What does the general public think? My parents, and most of my peers at school, dont see the point to it. To them the Segway is merely a fancy scooter that just isnt worth the money.

As far as people not understanding "engineering". Sure, many of them didnt have an engineering degree, so they arent engineers. It doesnt mean they dont understand the engineering process. I'm sure the shovel guy went through tons of revisions of his shovel to make it the most comfortable and ergonomic he possibly could. To me, that's still engineering. Would I call him an engineer? No, but that doesnt mean he doesnt know how to go through the engineering/ design process.

* About the general public I highlighted earlier in the post. This TV show is made with a target audience of the average joe. Therefore, the inventions have to tailor towards the general public. Many highly technologically driven products are not made for the general public, but for government use, or other companies. Again, look at the segway; it's biggest customers are the postal service, law enforcement, and amusement parks. All of these inventions have to be something the general public can 1) understand, 2) relate to, and 3) want to buy. This also relates to the judges. Only one judge has an engineering background; Doug Hall (chemical engineering actually, he went to UMAINE). The other 3 are business/ advertising and marketing experts. Why only one technically competent judge? Because again, techincally complex isnt a factor in whether not an invention will sell. The judges are supposed to find products that could be successful and sell. That's why the judges are all marketing based. The general public isnt going to look at these products through the eyes of an engineer, so it wouldnt make sense to have engineer judges. Yes, at some point, many of these inventions would have to be reviewed by engineers to make sure they are safe and such. I'm sure that 2 person bike will have to go through a panel of mechanical engineers before it ever hits shelves, but the marketing people have to make sure it will sell before all that time and money is invested in that process.

Lastly, about the boy. I agree with Ken and Doug Hall. Being on the show could mess up his life. He has a promising future right now, and he should stick with it and become an engineer. He did say he was 14, thats the max target age of FLL, so he's almost ready for FRC. The nearest FRC team to him should find him and invite him to a regional :D

Sorry about the long post.

[Tytus Gerrish]

The show is prety dumb but atleast its not just glorifing singing dancing and sex-apeal

[s_forbes]

I think the judges were asking some silly questions, such as "What does this invention mean to you and your family?" and "How much money have you spent on this invention?". I don't think that whether or not someones invention is produced should be based on how much was spent on the product or what it means in the life of the inventor, it should be based on the innovativeness and usfulness of the product.

What if the guy who came up with the idea for the paperclip went in front of those judges?

"It's used to hold pieces of paper together."
"How much have you spent on this product?"
"...Well...I bought a piece of wire for about a dollar two ninety eight but that's it..."
"Well what does this invention mean to you?"
"Uh, nothing really. I just thought it was a good idea..."
"You're just trying to sell a bent piece of wire. Get out of here."

[KenWittlief]

After seeing the sand bag shovel, my dad said I should design a dump truck that does it automatically.

actually, thats not a bad idea. Im thinking more of something like a dumptruck that could spew out BIG sandbags, like a giant saugage machine, so you could fill the truck with sand using a highloader, and 'sandbag' 50 to 100 feet at a time with a sandbag that is 6 feet in diameter?

We learned from John Henry, a well desinged machine will outrun an army of humans anyday.


I'm sure the shovel guy went through tons of revisions of his shovel to make it the most comfortable and ergonomic he possibly could. To me, that's still engineering...

I would not call that engineering. That is the difference between an engineer and a basement-inventor. The engineer took all those science and technology classes in college so he KNOWs what is possible, what has already been done, how materials will hold up under stress.

A good engineer can take a design concept and get the design correct with the first prototype. Thats engineering. All the design work happens with pencil and paper, or on a CAD system. Building a 100 prototypes until you get one right is tinkering.

[Rick TYler]

The show is prety dumb but atleast its not just glorifing singing dancing and sex-apeal

I, for one, have no particular problem with singing, dancing and sex appeal. Mark Leon combines all that with a career at NASA!

[MrForbes]

A good engineer can take a design concept and get the design correct with the first prototype. Thats engineering. All the design work happens with pencil and paper, or on a CAD system. Building a 100 prototypes until you get one right is tinkering.

I think you're right, mostly.

Tinkering is still a useful practice, though....and necessary for some projects.

[KenWittlief]

I think you're right, mostly.

Tinkering is still a useful practice, though....and necessary for some projects.

yeah, but we call it 'research'

and our fee is doubled :^)

[Morgan Gillespie]

Also to end those discussion about the title of the show,
Invention : A new device, method, or process developed from study and experimentation.

The American Heritage® Dictionary of the English Language, Fourth Edition. Copyright © 2002, 2000 by Houghton Mifflin Company. Published by Houghton Mifflin Company. All rights reserved.

[Adam Y.]

The show reminds me of the Hammacher Schlemmer search for invention competition. Those inventios are really quite unique and original. Here is a link. (http://www.hammacher.com/sfi/person.asp?InventionID=10) I think the reason why this show seems so vapid and stupid is the same reason why American Idol is known for it's horrible signing. They let anybody try out. Hence you get William Hung.

[Cuog]

thats what this was - a two hour slow motion train wreck!

If it was i would have been watching more, now that would have been interesting

[ahecht]

Way too many commercials!! they would have one "invention" then commercial...then again...and again.

Yeah, I noticed the same thing. The program I use to watch TV has a timeline which shows the show in dark blue and the commercials in light blue. This was the timeline for the 2 hour premiere:

http://zansstuff.com/images/aminvcom.jpg

Notice how in the second hour, the commercial breaks are almost as long as the show segments.

Other than that, I thought there were too many inventions that were given a yes that were either such a niche item that they shouldn't be the "greatest american invention" (the pit hiding bowl or the cookie snowglobes) or that were entering a flooded market with little improvement over their competators (the exercise machine). Hopefully, the show will improve with time, but something tells me it will never reach season 2.

[Koko Ed]

Oh my God.
It's comming back.
WHY? DEAR GOD, WHY!!!!
http://smilies.vidahost.com/contrib/edoom/cussing.gif

[Justin Montois]

This is a terrible show

[RyanN]

Yea, from what I remember last year, I didn't really like the show due to the people on it. Most of them seemed to spend their life savings on their "invention" that I really couldn't ever see myself using. I wish Junkyard Wars would come back on... I loved that show and it tought me a lot of what I know today about ways to do things and ways to not do things :D I might watch this show a few times this year, but I'm pretty sure I won't be impressed with it at all. I think if I went on there, or really, any FIRSTer that is like me (used to take things apart when he/she was little, made things in elementary school that most high schoolers couldn't make, and tried to think of things that everybody could use) that I could be picked, but then, it would probably ruin my life or something.

[Joe Matt]

Yea, from what I remember last year, I didn't really like the show due to the people on it. Most of them seemed to spend their life savings on their "invention" that I really couldn't ever see myself using. I wish Junkyard Wars would come back on... I loved that show and it tought me a lot of what I know today about ways to do things and ways to not do things :D I might watch this show a few times this year, but I'm pretty sure I won't be impressed with it at all. I think if I went on there, or really, any FIRSTer that is like me (used to take things apart when he/she was little, made things in elementary school that most high schoolers couldn't make, and tried to think of things that everybody could use) that I could be picked, but then, it would probably ruin my life or something.

I wish Where In The World Is Carmen Sandiego was back on TV....

I think the real problem is that inventors don't create final products, the create ideas. As I remember from the IDEO spot that was on the news awhile ago, an inventor created dental floss, but someone had to put it in the convenient package with the cutting device. :]

[Elgin Clock]

So who does everyone want to win this year's competition?

Guardian Angel Christmas Tree firefighting device? (http://abc.go.com/primetime/americaninventor/index?pn=bio&g=21815&name=greggchavez)

HT Racers? (http://abc.go.com/primetime/americaninventor/index?pn=bio&g=21815&name=rickyderennaux)

Convertible Bra? (http://abc.go.com/primetime/americaninventor/index?pn=bio&g=21815&name=elainecato)


I really want the Guardian Angel to win the competition, but want to see the HT Racers on the market. I'm thinking they can be used in design classes for pre-requisites for FIRST teams of all kinds. :)

[Vince lau]

I want the Guardian Angel to win, i also wanted the bike clamp guys to make the final 3

[Rich Wong]

I want the Guardian Angel to win, i also wanted the bike clamp guys to make the final 3

Same for me, Guardian Angel is my top pick.
Too bad the bike camp did not move on, I would like to buy several of them.

(could have used the "clamp" on the 2005 FRC Game!)
:)