Rookie All-Star Twice? [Archive]

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Matt Kallerud

26-03-2006, 14:41

Beth Sweet

26-03-2006, 14:45

It is possible however most teams (such as 1511 last year) do ask at the second regional to be removed from the pool in order to give another team a chance to qualify for Atlanta.

Vu2000

26-03-2006, 15:06

It is possible, however, if you have a team mentoring your team, they will most likely show you the ropes of gracious professionalism and do what Beth Sweet said (allowing someone else to win it).

Erin Rapacki

26-03-2006, 15:09

Here's a suggestion: see if you can give your "2nd" qualifying spot to Atlanta to one of the Rookie Inspiration teams at those regionals.

Alex Cormier

26-03-2006, 15:19

Here's a suggestion: see if you can give your "2nd" qualifying spot to Atlanta to one of the Rookie Inspiration teams at those regionals.
Or possibly a team that won Rookie Inspiration at two events. 1901 comes to my mind.

dlavery

26-03-2006, 17:33

Here's a suggestion: see if you can give your "2nd" qualifying spot to Atlanta to one of the Rookie Inspiration teams at those regionals.

You cannot do that. The awards, and any entree to the Championship event that may go along with them, are non-transferable.

Tomasz Bania

26-03-2006, 17:36

I was just wondering if anyone has ever heard of a team winning Rookie All-Star at two different regionals. Because we (1714) won at Buckeye and Wisconsin Regionals and everyone I talked to said they've never heard of that.
Team 818 back in 2002 (Our Rookie Year) won the All-Star Rookie Award at both the regionals we attended AND on top of that we won the All-Star Rookie Award At the Nationals.

So the answer to your question is "Yes".

Good Luck!
Tomasz Bania

RoboMom

26-03-2006, 18:01

It is possible however most teams (such as 1511 last year) do ask at the second regional to be removed from the pool in order to give another team a chance to qualify for Atlanta.

There have also been teams this year who have requested to be removed from the pool for consideration for EI. They sent a note to the judges first thing on Friday.

Elgin Clock

26-03-2006, 23:03

There have also been teams this year who have requested to be removed from the pool for consideration for EI. They sent a note to the judges first thing on Friday.

Why would you want to remove yourself from the running? Is there a clause in the manual that says you have to be present at The Championship Event to win a award there?

Or were you talking about the running for a Regional? In that case I still don't understand that.

I personally don't undertstand that team's logic Jenny. Care to shed some light on some details if you know them?

You cannot do that. The awards, and any entree to the Championship event that may go along with them, are non-transferable.

I know this makes sense for logistics purposes, but doesn't that violate GP big time?

Arghh... Well.. then again, if you say, we (as team A) can't go, but we want team B to go in our place, and Team C, D, E, F, & G get mad that their chances just went out the window cause B knows A and got their free ride, I can see where this becomes a problem..

This is why I hate logistics. You can't please everyone all at one time.

Wayne Doenges

26-03-2006, 23:04

In our rookie year (2001) we one the Rookie All-Star at both of our regionals (Western MI and Midwest). Came in second place at WMR after seeding 42nd out of 50.

Billfred

26-03-2006, 23:11

Why would you want to remove yourself from the running? Is there a clause in the manual that says you have to be present at The Championship Event to win a award there?

Or were you talking about the running for a Regional? In that case I still don't understand that.

I personally don't undertstand that team's logic Jenny. Care to shed some light on some details if you know them?
I believe she's talking about a regional.

The way I see it, if you win EI at your first regional, you have at the same time been recognized for your achievements, received some shiny hardware, and received your invitation to the Big Dance. Winning it again would be awesome, but it also would keep another team from getting their ticket to the same Big Dance.

At least that's how I see it.

the_short1

27-03-2006, 09:43

last year we won at GLR, and at GTR we asked the judges to remove us from the pool, after being informed that we were in the running for it again.

however if we weren't able to do that i think we would have sent one representative to the field, and graciously declined, and said on behalf of team 1596 wede like to give the award to team xxxx who deserves to go to nationals. (which i think does not fall under, transfering awards since its not fully given out yet)

RoboMom

27-03-2006, 10:47

I believe she's talking about a regional.

The way I see it, if you win EI at your first regional, you have at the same time been recognized for your achievements, received some shiny hardware, and received your invitation to the Big Dance. Winning it again would be awesome, but it also would keep another team from getting their ticket to the same Big Dance.

At least that's how I see it.

Bingo.

mpob

27-03-2006, 12:26

I was just wondering if anyone has ever heard of a team winning Rookie All-Star at two different regionals. Because we (1714) won at Buckeye and Wisconsin Regionals and everyone I talked to said they've never heard of that.

Last year, 1511 won Rookie All-Star at Finger Lakes Regional, our first of three regionals. As a team we decided to ask the judges not to consider us for Rookie All-Star at the Buckeye regional, or at the Greater Toronto regional, as we did not see the point of winning it multiple times. And we wanted to help other Rookie Teams get to the Championships in Atlanta.

In Atlanta, last year, we were awarded the Championship Rookie All-Star award, so it was clear that we could have claimed Rookie All-Star awards a total of four times last year, at 3 regionals, and in Atlanta. But we did not see any point in doing that....

This year we did likewise with Engineering Inspiration Award, as we want to give other teams a chance to get to Atlanta.

In Boston this weekend I heard of that other teams decline awards that they have won many times over the years, as they want to give other teams a chance at those awards, and so they can then focus on earning some new awards.

I like that idea!

--Mike

Nawaid Ladak

27-03-2006, 12:54

This post has been deleted

KathieK

27-03-2006, 13:23

What is the requirements to quallify and recive the Rookie All Star award, because we has a awsome robot and a great stratagy in SC, but we didn't win we had the highest rookie seed in Florida and they only gave us the RI, yet in SC, we found out that we were in the running for 6 awards, but did not win any. we were selected by the no: 1 seed (343) in SC. The Awards are explained in the Manual (http://www.chiefdelphi.com/media/papers/1809).

Has anyone else been shafted yet,
btw, to all you haters, im not nagging. im just stating the truth, if you have something negitive to say about our rookie year, then please do

otherwise, I know our team won Xerox in FL and Philly last year.If you think that your team has been "shafted" because they did not win an award at a Regional event then you have not learned the meaning of FIRST yet. If you managed to pull a team together, got some mentors to help, got sponsors or did fundraising to get you to the Regional, and built a working robot, you have achieved a great deal. Winning an award is icing on the cake. If you feel that your team "deserved" to win an award but didn't, visit the team who did win the award and learn more about their team. You may be surprised to hear their story and may learn how to improve your team for next year.

GaryVoshol

27-03-2006, 13:51

JonA

27-03-2006, 16:29

I agree that it would be in-line with the ideas of FIRST and GP for 1714 to ask to not be considered for the award, but I also believe that should not have had to ask for this treatment. These awards are awarded by the judges for reasons that only they know.

If the judges believed that this team deserved the Rookie Allstar Award, they should get the award. I don't believe it would be ethical to give the judges a list of previous winners before they make their decision since these awards should be given to those who deserve it and having these lists would bias judges. I do believe that the judges should have been presented a list of previous winners by the Judges' Assistant after the awards selection was made so that they could consider and make up their own minds about the implications of giving the same award to a team twice.

Remember that this is a rookie team that probably assumed that the judges would take the fact that they have already won the Rookie Allstar Award into consideration when choosing the Rookie Allstar Award.

I, myself, though that the judges would not even consider a previous winner because of the implications of possibly not allowing another rookie team a trip to nationals. It is interesting to note that the only mentor on this team with experience in FIRST is my friend Kevin Kolodziej, who has a lot of experience at competitions both as a student and a mentor, and even he believed that "[Team 1714 was] automatically out of the running."

In the end, I am sad that another rookie team was possibly not able to go to nationals but I believe that no fault can possibly be found in Team 1714's actions.

Full Disclosure: I am a member of Team 1675, a sponsor and mentor team of Team 1714 and good friend of Kevin Kolodziej.

the_short1

30-03-2006, 09:12

i think they should be given the list of awards for each team.. .so as to give more teams the ability to win, and spread the joy around..

If you are a team that works your BUT off to win an award... lets say imagery award.. but just falls short to another team.. . and that other team wins the award (for their second time).. . and for your team.. this was your only regional, and that was the only award you had a chance on... you got nothing to (publically show) for your efforts.. . they get 2? idk its just a point worth mentioning.
although the true value of first is in what you learn and the experiences you take away from it.. its still nice to be able to bring home a trophie.

but one way to solve that problem.. . aim high.. . aim to win a lot of different awards! every team has the potential to win an award, its all about dedication, effort, and spirit. last year we won rookie allstar, seed, website.. tried hard for website again this year .. . but our main goal was spirit.. and we did win it twice.. albeit team 772 did a great job cheering @ waterloo as well (and it would have been their second spirit award too)... and next year were aiming to win the safety award amd innovation in control... and a regional *croses fingers*

dhitchco

30-03-2006, 14:10

I had to go back and re-read the original question posed at the beginning of this thread. As so many of you have said,

a) If you attend more than one regional and have won award "XYZ" at the first regional, yes, the gracious thing to do is to recuse yourself from the pool of teams to win the same award at a 2nd regional. It doesn't buy you anything except bragging rights and more lexan trophies.

b) If you do choose this path, it should be done with the judges in private (via a team written petittion). It should NOT be announced that "team 9999 withdrew so instead we gave it to team 0000"

c) Now, if you win an award at a regional that gets you into the "big dance" at the world championship, then it's perfectly OK to verbally tell the judges that "we were in consideration for award XYZ at our 2nd regional, but we graciously withdrew our team from the running...."

d) Another way to look at it is to have a MASTER PLAN if you are going to attend more than one regional. make a decision to focus on award XYZ at the first regional and then re-focus on award 999 at the next regional. If you don't get award XYZ at your first regional, then go for both awards at your second regional. But stay focused.

Just remember.....IT'S NOT ABOUT THE ROBOT

Rosiebotboss

30-03-2006, 15:21

In Boston this weekend I heard of that other teams decline awards that they have won many times over the years, as they want to give other teams a chance at those awards, and so they can then focus on earning some new awards.

--Mike[/QUOTE]

Who did that? We were there and did not hear that story. As a matter of fact, Team 75 won EI for the 2nd time this year in Boston. (As listed on their team website, www.roboraiders.com)

dhitchco

31-03-2006, 09:40

Hi Dana,
In the 2006 season, our team (#1511 Rolling Thunder) won the Regional Engineering Inspiration award at the Finger Lakes Regional.

When we got to Boston, we felt that we would be a good candidate team to win the EI award again, but we signed a petittion to ask the judges to NOT consider us for that award agaain.

We did NOT expect and did NOT want the judges to announce this since it might make the actual winner feel like a "runner-up".......

So, each team can do whatever they feel is the appropriate thing in terms of gathering as much "hardware" as possible; even if multiple repeats of the same award, or can do the "GP" thing and let other teams have a chance too.

In 2005, we did the same thing for the regional rookie all-star award at two regionals (won RAS in Finger lakes, went on to Toronto and Buckeye and recused ourselves fromthe pool of candidate teams)

mrmummert

01-04-2006, 21:04

I don't know if anyone noticed...but 1885 won it twice too.

paulcd2000

02-04-2006, 13:21

we won it at chesapeake, and then would have given it up at phili... but there were only 2 teams that were rookies! they didn't want to have it given to them, so we competed, and they won! props to 1712, DAWGMA!

newton418

02-04-2006, 15:33

At the Lone Star Regionals some judges asked me which rookie team I thought stood out the most. This was right after we'd come back from winning a game with 1902 (Exploding Bacon), and they were very friendly and helpful. After working with them, I had no doubt in my mind. But, after I answered the judges said "well, in that case, who would be your next pick?" I didn't really understand why I couldn't pick Exploding Bacon, and later found out they requested to be taken out of the running, since they won the Rookie All-Star award in Florida. I was throughly impressed with their overall team, and that display of GP confirmed the impression they left with me.

av11d

02-04-2006, 20:23

We did in fact win EI twice this year, but really had no intention of doing so. In fact we had no intention of winning this award at EITHER regional.

In NJ we were of course aiming for chairmans, but came up slightly short. 25 just had some really awesome stuff, and were well deserving of it NJ. So we won EI.

In Boston, on the first day, when the judges came around, we tried to make it especially clear we were going after a robot award. Specifically, I even stated to a judge "We're really trying to win the Delphi Driving Tomorrow's Technology award. I feel we're really competitive for it." We wanted to win this award mainly becasue we wanted to be eligible for that FIRST book that's being published. We also stated we were competitive for the AVA award.

When the awards came around, we were pleased to see we had won the AVA award. We were a little dissapointed we hadn't won a robot award, but then they announced the EI award. We were completely shocked and had no intention of winning it.

I feel bad knowing that we could have potentially taken someone's CMP spot, but we really had no intention of winning that award. I talked to some judges afterwards and they stated that we had too strong of a presence at the regional (giving support to a number of rookies, rookie workshops, spare parts, etc.) to not be given that award.

On behalf of Team 75, I'd like to apologize for not taking further steps to remove ourselves from EI eligibilty in Boston. We had no intention of running for it.

Kims Robot

02-04-2006, 23:58

Seeing this thread, it really makes me think back to a conversation I had last week with another mentor and one of our students. It seems the awards are getting everyone too heated. And it really not at all about the plastic trophies. Its really awesome that some teams are good enough to win at multiple regionals, and they are definitely not at fault for not "opting" out as 1511 or many other teams have done. Some teams dont think of it, some just get caught up in the craziness of the competition season and forget, some dont realize they are in the running twice.

In the end, its really about does your team "get" it. Do they really know what FIRST is about, are they really spreading that bug to other teams, to people in the community, to middleschoolers. The awards can be somewhat political, they can be somewhat propaganda, there can be teams overlooked because they just dont have enough people to produce great documentation, huge pits, etc. All of this happens, but in my opinion, none of it matters as much as if your team really inspires students. I know a lot of people would probably tell me "well thats only because your team has won a ton of awards." Well I come from two teams that didnt win a single official FIRST award until after I left. 7 years in FIRST and not a single trophy. But it didnt matter, I stuck with FIRST, and I knew I was inspired, and I was able to inspire those around me.

Personally, I think FIRST should come up with a way of limiting teams to wining championship qualifiers only once. Whether it be by submitting to one of your regionals, or just telling the judges "these teams are ineligible". There are many teams that have their sponsors say they can only attend champs if they win... or rookie teams that just cant go without qualifying.

However, my congratulations do go out to the teams that have won the RAS. Its an awesome award, and no matter how many times you win it, its something to be proud of, and we wish you the best of luck at championships :D

RoboMom

04-04-2006, 10:54

In NJ we were of course aiming for chairmans, but came up slightly short. 25 just had some really awesome stuff, and were well deserving of it NJ. So we won EI..

Just to clarify. EI is NOT the runner-up chairman's.
Deliberations for these two awards are done independently and have different criteria.
There is obviously talking that goes on late in deliberations to make sure the same team is not selected for both.