What is the best strategy

[DaveA412]

What do you think the best strategy as far as types of teams are?
for example 2 offense and 1 defense or 3 offense 1 offense 2 defense etc

you can also add if they are human loaded pick up from the floor ball herders and dumpers just looking for input

personally i say 2 offense that can pick up from the floor and one defense with a great drivetrain and can possibly be a ball dumper.

[Tetraman]

1 robot with mastery in Automode.
1 robot with mastery in offence.
1 robot with mastery in defense and getting to and getting others to the platform.

[MrForbes]

I think you'll discover, if you have good scouting, that you can't break it down that easily...each team is unique, and has a unique combinations of strengths. In the end, reliability, adaptability and great teamwork might be what count the most.

[nuggetsyl]

win

[hayakuneko]

Just from being at the Arizona and LA regionals, I can tell you that the winning alliance has at least 2 robots that can pick up from the ground. From there, I'd also state that a winning alliance only has high (exit point) shooters, except for the ones that get on the ramp and do that whole deal. 2 shooters isn't exactly necessary (968 proved that in LA) but I think that you need at least a shooting robot that has a high point per game average. Then of course the dumping bot that also is good at defense.

Basically I'd say, the best strategy is to have a defensive robot (maybe it can also dump), a very competent shooter bot (high point average), and just one well rounded robot that can switch off between shooting, dumping, and defense.

[BHS_STopping]

Well, our winning alliance at the Sacramento/Davis competition had one very constant autonomous winner (which was a low goal bot, or "bottom-feeder", as our coach likes to say) which was also a good defensive bot, a high goal shooter which would help break a tie in autonomous by scoring 1 or 2 balls in the center goal, and one high shooter which would play spectacular defense during the whole match, while also being able to score if both other bots were blocked. Also, all robots were easily capable of getting up the ramp, as well as helping a disabled robot get onto the ramp with a push (Thanks 852!).

Any way it works, there are different alliances for different situations. It all depends what your opponents are capable of and what you know about the competition. In other words, it's almost impossible to build a winning team without decent scouting reports. You basically have to know the in and outs of each bot there, and then you can start building a top-nothch alliance that is capable of many things, not just scoring high.

The scouting strategy is quite possibly one of the most overlooked aspects of this competition. Next year, it would be wise of many teams to take a look at other teams individually, not by their seeds. I guess our experience just goes to show that picking the 16th and 36th seeded teams can pave the way to victory.

(Basically a longer explanation of squirrel's ideas.)

[DaveA412]

yes i liked my winning alliance also we were all able to get up the ramp we are spectacular at defense 233 waqs an amazing shooter 121 was an amazing shooter but could still push ppl around we all had awesome autonomous modes ours we blocked ppl very successfully and 121 smetimes blocked and shot and 233 shot it was a great team we were all friendly and made it even better i like both teams very much and cant wait to see them at nationals as we have been called sometimes the force because of our torque we can also puch people up the ramp and a special thanks to team 40 with all the sky wheels they gave us because we kept ripping the center out of ours well i hope to see all those teams in nationals ill stop by and say hello

[AcesPease]

To emphasize some of what has been said. Scout, Scout and then Scout some more. Scout every team in your division. Watch the qualification rounds. If you get to pick an alliance, picking well from any ranking can give you a chance to win this year's game. The Championships will have many robots that can perform multiple functions well, specialized robots may be at a disadvantage in eliminations where the other teams can plan and coordinate carefully. An alliance of three good robots that are working well together can win. There is no robot that can win this game by itself. Try to pick the best team available when it is your turn, and if the other teams picking have not done their scouting you will have the advantage.

[hillale]

From what I've seen, what seemed to work best is two robots with a center goal autonomous and one that could consistently put 10 balls in the corner. One of the shooters would stay as the back bot and load up on balls while the other 2 played defense, then line up and plant themselves so that it would be hard to move them just before their offensive period begins. Then when the 3rd period begins, they can just empty 10-15 balls in the center goal, if they hadn't already won the match by their autonomous period.

[xtremehumanheat]

i think the best strategy is having a good autonomous robot to win autonomous, having two robots that can load from human player and block the corner goals at the same time, and having the one robot one the other side of the field that can pick the balls off the floor and be able to shoot into the center goal when its time for offense.




:o if this idea was said before in a earlier post just know that i didnt read the other posts, I was just saying what i think is a good strategy.

[Duncan Macdonald]

So far the best combination that has apealed to me is two shooters and a bully bot (dumping ability preferable).

My experience is that if there is only one robot that can shoot it gets harrased by both defensive bots resulting in it never even being able to face the hoop.

[Nimmy]

I've heard this question so many times for people on my team "what's our strategy? what's the best strategy?"
well my strategy is to win =)

I think I learned that even more important then teamwork
adaptability is the most important factor
the skill of improvising during those crucial few seconds,

having an alliance who's drivers and coaches are good improvisers and have an adaptable robot is very important,

and ramp
the ramp rules

[bk111]

I think you'll discover, if you have good scouting, that you can't break it down that easily...each team is unique, and has a unique combinations of strengths. In the end, reliability, adaptability and great teamwork might be what count the most.
I agree. You build a driving strategy around the robot. If you devise a strategy around doing only a handful of things without getting in your opponents' heads, then you've already lost. Even if your robot accomplishes those tasks really well, proper defense could shut it down. I think good teamwork can be the most difficult. Even if everyone in an alliance is cooperative, properly complementing strengths and weaknesses can very tricky.

[Lil' Lavery]

Some related threads:
http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/showthread.php?t=45783&highlight=alliance+structure
http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/showthread.php?t=45634&highlight=alliance+structure

[BBnum3]

From what I've seen, what seemed to work best is two robots with a center goal autonomous and one that could consistently put 10 balls in the corner. One of the shooters would stay as the back bot and load up on balls while the other 2 played defense, then line up and plant themselves so that it would be hard to move them just before their offensive period begins. Then when the 3rd period begins, they can just empty 10-15 balls in the center goal, if they hadn't already won the match by their autonomous period.

:ahh: I was going to say something just like that, and then add that that's what my alliance did at Milwaukee, and then I saw your signature, and realized you're from Winnovation. One thing I would like to add about that strategy: The non-shooting robot is almost better off not pouring its balls into the corner goal and playing a defensive autonomous mode. That way, since the alliance plans on winning the autonomous mode anyway, the defensive robot is on the defensive side of the field from the start. It can play defense immediately, which may be more important than the 10 balls it could have scored in autonomous. If the two other robots are good enough shooters (like 111 and 1625 at Milwaukee) then it almost doesn't even matter if the defensive robot scores. I'm curious to see if this strategy has been employed at regionals other than Wisconsin.

[bk111]

By the time competitions start, determining the best team strategy is almost irrelevant, since it would have already been determined at least late in the build season. Design + Drive & Human Player Strategy = Team Strategy. Drive & Human Player Strategy are the direct consequences of Design, and cannot be created independently. Team Strategy + Scouting = Alliance Strategy Has any team analyzed scouting data through a computer-based alliance selection process? What I mean is: Enter the strengths and weaknesses of teams into a computer and print out a display of the best and worst partners for your team? (think compatibility tests for dating sites)

[Kim Masi]

one word- Defense

[Cowmankoza]

As mentioned by many before me, one impressive shooter, one sturdy defender, and one all around robot (that can switch to do the needed task). This setup of an alliance is what allowed 11, 247 and us (1251) to win palmetto regional!

[TheNotoriousKid]

For this years game i think the best strategy is winning in autonomous mode and playin defence after that

[Paul Copioli]

Two autonomous shooters is a must. Period. End of story. If you do not have this and your opponent does, then you will be defeated. All three robots better be able to play defense (we added bumpers after Detroit for this very reason). You do not need three shooters, but it would be nice.

[Francis-134]

Personally, I think it is important to have a killer autonomous mode that can put up at least 21 points consistantly. As for the makeup of an alliance, it seems that two awesome shooters (i.e. number one picks number two) and another shooter of lesser quality is the only real way to win in a highly competitive elimination round. Two defensive robots cannot stop three shooters from scoring at the same time, especially if one of them can shoot from far away, or out of the "red zone" right in front of the ramp.

Not only that, but isa shooter is the backbot, by the time the next round starts, that robot has a full load of balls and is in position to shoot them off. The only way to stop them would be to send one of your offensive robots to defend them, which takes away from your scoring potential. I've seen alliances work very well like this at both Manchester and Boston, which seem to be two highly competitive regionals.

[Richsgt]

This game is definitely one where there is no 'best strategy' you need to win autonomous, but you CAN overcome not winning it via strong offense in the round. Or by stronge defense. This year definitely has an emphasis on the ability to change the strategy depending on who you're playing, who you're playing with and the teams you will play against.
To sum it all up the best alliance/strategy is a team that has 3 bots that can play strong defense, shoot high, score low, get on the ramp and have autonomous. You need all to have that ability because just due to game variance and parts breaking, if your high shooter dies and everyone else cannot score, then the game changes entirely for your alliance.

....And the Ramp, definitely the ramp because no matter what else, the ramp is shiney and all robots are attracted to shiney objects

[newton418]

At the Lone Star Regionals we (418 LASA) were allied with 231 (High Voltage) and 1421 (Chaos). 231 had an awesome shooter and could pick up balls off the ground. 1421 was effective at defending, a very good dumper and always got 10 balls in the lower goal in autonomous. 418 was okay at dumping but found that we were best defending. We also had an autonomous that stopped the other allience from scoring. We won autonomous all but two games, and those two team 118 scored either 9 or 10 in the upper goal, but one of those games we came back and won.

So, a solid shooter, a reliable dumper, a good defender, consistent autonomous and a defensive autonomous is what won the Lone Star Regionals for us.

[DaveA412]

Personally, I think it is important to have a killer autonomous mode that can put up at least 21 points consistantly. As for the makeup of an alliance, it seems that two awesome shooters (i.e. number one picks number two) and another shooter of lesser quality is the only real way to win in a highly competitive elimination round. Two defensive robots cannot stop three shooters from scoring at the same time, especially if one of them can shoot from far away, or out of the "red zone" right in front of the ramp.

Not only that, but isa shooter is the backbot, by the time the next round starts, that robot has a full load of balls and is in position to shoot them off. The only way to stop them would be to send one of your offensive robots to defend them, which takes away from your scoring potential. I've seen alliances work very well like this at both Manchester and Boston, which seem to be two highly competitive regionals.

you guys definitely have the best autonomous ever we always had to guess at it but were never sure where u were going keep it up and good luck

[aallen88]

Two autonomous shooters is a must. Period. End of story. If you do not have this and your opponent does, then you will be defeated. All three robots better be able to play defense (we added bumpers after Detroit for this very reason). You do not need three shooters, but it would be nice.


At the Palmetto Regional, Team 11 was the only autonomous shooter in our alliance and we were faced against teams with two shooters also in auto. We won every autonomous and actual round in the quater, semi, and finals. 1251 would defend us as we drove up and shot, while 247 rammed through any opponent's shooters on the opposite side of the field.

...Anything can happen.

[Craig Roys]

Two shooters and one good defensive bot. The defensive bot serves two purposes, defend your goal (obviously) and protect your shooters during offensive period - ability to get up ramp a big plus. I've seen a few alliances with 2 good shooters, but the 3rd was unable to protect well enough on both offense and defense.

Of course my comments here are biased as we are a very defensive robot. We've had good success shutting down some very good shooters. We hope to do some more at Nat's - and hopefully get noticed for it.

[jDee_shaRpie]

Id say Good Shooters and Dumpers with an Insane Defensive Bot. Win Auton heard tons while backbot, defensive bot has to get rid of threats to the shooter. But most of all TEAMWORK! Im actually surprised i havent seen that said a bunch of times. communication between the coaches incase a team needs help up a ramp or something, or if they need to shoot balls into a robot, or something like that.

[DaveA412]

even though i stated 3 good shooters would be unstoppable i take it back because 2 shooters and a good defensive bot its back to even with 2 shooters and 2 shooters on top of that if the defensive bot can block more then one shooter of if one shooter has to go back to reload then the 2 shooter one defense team gets an advantage so i change my mind and 2 shooters one good defense is the best team and 2 good defense one shooter could also level the playing field with three shooters

[Cowmankoza]

At the Palmetto Regional, Team 11 was the only autonomous shooter in our alliance and we were faced against teams with two shooters also in auto. We won every autonomous and actual round in the quater, semi, and finals. 1251 would defend us as we drove up and shot, while 247 rammed through any opponent's shooters on the opposite side of the field.

...Anything can happen.

Here Here to big poofy pool noodle bumpers!

[akshar]

without a doubt: 2 awesome shooters and a very good defensive bot (sole job: defense)
a defensive bot can shut down 2/3 of an alliance with help from one of the shooters, this can be seen if you watch the videos of 121, 233, 1568 in eliminations. 1568 moved around defending it blocked the best bots on the opposing alliance, and either 121 or 233 would come back and help defending, however the defensive bot has more work to do because it has to block the shooters and help block for its alliance members when it is offensive mode. so 2 offense 1 defense and a whole lot of teamwork can definetly beat 3 good shooters...

just my .02

[JamesBrown]

I still believe that 3 good shooters will beat 2 shooters and 1 defensive bot 9 times out of 10, in the period when 3 shooters are playing against 2 defensive bots (one solely defensive and 1 that is playing D for the period) the 2 bots will not be able to stop the three shooters. Many offensive bots have been running the pick and roll and other things of the sort to stop one defender, a 1 on 1 match up works in favor of the offense. However in the team with 2 offensive bots offensive period the other team just has to play 1 on 1, a team with a decent driver and a OK drive team can hinder a robot in a 1 on 1 match up and prevent it from scoring. I am aware that many regionals have been won by teams of 2 offensive and 1 defensive bot ( I was lucky enough to be on a team picked for this type of alliance) This will change at Nationals, defensive bots are often more effective then the 20th or 24th best scorer, this will not necessarily be true at Nationals if the number 1 seed starts with the 2 highest scorers then other alliances will play those 2 bots 1 on 1 in the defensive period, this opens up a huge gap for a third offensive bot to score (and a situation where a defensive bot would not be overwhelmingly successful). In a regional of 30-50 teams it is unrealistic to expect there to be 24 quality scorers (bots that score more than 25 points a match) however I will be willing to bet that in at least 2 (most likely all 4) divisions there will be at least 24 good scoring bots.

[DaveA412]

I still believe that 3 good shooters will beat 2 shooters and 1 defensive bot 9 times out of 10, in the period when 3 shooters are playing against 2 defensive bots (one solely defensive and 1 that is playing D for the period) the 2 bots will not be able to stop the three shooters. Many offensive bots have been running the pick and roll and other things of the sort to stop one defender, a 1 on 1 match up works in favor of the offense. However in the team with 2 offensive bots offensive period the other team just has to play 1 on 1, a team with a decent driver and a OK drive team can hinder a robot in a 1 on 1 match up and prevent it from scoring. I am aware that many regionals have been won by teams of 2 offensive and 1 defensive bot ( I was lucky enough to be on a team picked for this type of alliance) This will change at Nationals, defensive bots are often more effective then the 20th or 24th best scorer, this will not necessarily be true at Nationals if the number 1 seed starts with the 2 highest scorers then other alliances will play those 2 bots 1 on 1 in the defensive period, this opens up a huge gap for a third offensive bot to score (and a situation where a defensive bot would not be overwhelmingly successful). In a regional of 30-50 teams it is unrealistic to expect there to be 24 quality scorers (bots that score more than 25 points a match) however I will be willing to bet that in at least 2 (most likely all 4) divisions there will be at least 24 good scoring bots.

im hoping there are more then that i wanna see a show im looking forward to it but ill take 24-48 good shooters though i cant watch all of them