Winning twice?

[mechanicalbrain]

I've noticed that a couple of regional awards are being won by teams who have already won the same award at another regional. Some of these awards are website, animation, and rook all star. What's your opinion?

[Cody Carey]

Awards such as the safety award SHOULD be able to be won more than once, but I don't think things such as industrial design or the radio shack one should...

[Koko Ed]

If you design something that deserve recognition or do something that deserves recognition then you deserve recognition. Period.

[lukevanoort]

I'd say all awards should be able to be won twice except for the ones that send you to nationals.

[Dan Petrovic]

I'd say all awards should be able to be won twice except for the ones that send you to nationals.

I feel the same way.

[mechanicalbrain]

If you design something that deserve recognition or do something that deserves recognition then you deserve recognition. Period.
Should a team get recognition for something that has already gained them recognition elsewhere at the expense of someone else's chance? What if it is a competition that allows a team to go to nationals. I have no opinion on this, just curious how far this belief extends.

[Jherbie53]

Yes but only to some extent. I agree that if it sends you to Nationals then you should let someone else win. Judges, Website, Animation, Sportsmanship, Spirit, and Imagery are some that you could win more then once. As long as you don't feel like you shouldn't win the award, like the one team thats posted that they won Rookie All-Star twice (http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=45875) , then you should be happy that you won.

[JC-75]

In retrospect, I have to say I agree on the regional level that the qualification awards should act like chairman's and only be winnable once. We had something interesting occur in Boston, however, winning EI again, with easily 3/4 of the team not even being aware that we were eligible. Looking back, I wish that we had known that you do have eligibility at multiple regionals in order to make a request to be removed from the pool.

Seeing a similar thread like this posted again, I'm going to quote something Kims Robot from team 1511 (2006 EI award winners at another regional) said with regards to this subject.

Seeing this thread, it really makes me think back to a conversation I had last week with another mentor and one of our students. It seems the awards are getting everyone too heated. And it really not at all about the plastic trophies. Its really awesome that some teams are good enough to win at multiple regionals, and they are definitely not at fault for not "opting" out as 1511 or many other teams have done. Some teams dont think of it, some just get caught up in the craziness of the competition season and forget, some dont realize they are in the running twice.

I feel that this sums it up pretty well. But, my opinion is still that the championship qualifier awards should only be obtainable once: my thoughts before going to Boston were that you COULD only win them once :confused:

[mechanicalbrain]

After reading all the posts I'm going with option three. While I agree with Mr. Patterson, that teams deserve recognition for their accomplishments, I don't think it should be at the expense of a team going to nationals. Yes, it's arguable that a team who places second would have lost at nationals anyway, but I don't think such a decision should be made at a regional. I like seeing a large and varied competition for national awards. :D

[SizzelChest330]

We won the Xerox Creative Design award in both Arizona and Phoenix. it was surely not expected. But we were happy to win both. Other teams such as Wildstang won the same award at two different regionals.

[neilsonster]

We won the spirit award twice this year and were close to getting two safety awards (through 3 regionals we got 2 honourable mentions and one award), and I have gotta say that we had to work harder and harder at each regional, it wasn't just a given that we would win. So I believe that if you continue to work for it, you should continue to be rewarded for it.

[GaryVoshol]

... teams deserve recognition for their accomplishments, I don't think it should be at the expense of a team going to nationals ... For those that subscribe to this position, does it apply to being a regional winner as well? Once a team wins a regional, should they recuse themselves from the finals of any other regional, because they shouldn't be able to win twice?

Let's face it, the only award this really applies to is the Rookie All-Star, because that is the primary way rookies get to Atlanta. Sure, they can win the regional - it has happened - and they might get EI. But there are 33 special spots for rookie teams to get their invite to Atlanta, and it certainly would be GP to ask the judges not to consider you in that award if you've already won it. But it wouldn't necessarily be anti-GP if the team doesn't recuse themselves.

Any non-rookie team can get to Atlanta simply by registering and paying. It wasn't always that way, but for the last two years registration has been open to Tier 1 and it didn't fill up.

[santosh]

I feel that all awards should be able to be won at multiple regionals except for Engineering Inspiration and Chairman's. I don't believe a team should be restrained from winning 1st palce at 2 regionals. I feel that it somewhat invalidates th 1st place trophy of a team that does win becuase another team wasn't allowed to take 1st place that may have deserved it. I am sur that most teams would like to be the best at a regional by beating the best.

[omutton]

The most deserving teams should win the awards, regardless of if they have won it before. Judges shouldn't have to settle for second best just so another team can go to the Championships.

For example, in our rookie year, we won the Rookie All Star Award at 2 regionals. Although back then it didn't qualify us for Atlanta, we won it because in the eys of the judges, we deserved it. The same goes for Chairman's; we won it 2 years in a row because the in the eys of the judges we were the most deserving.

[kawelch]

It seems to me that if FIRST wants to continue to grow they need to spread the love out so to speak. If the same team wins the same award at multiple regionals it merely states that this is a competition for the rich. Teams that can not afford to go to but one regional are at the mercy of the teams that can afford to go anywhere. Many teams need some kind of recognition to help keep them on the field. There are 20+ awards given out at 30+ regionals, is it too much to ask that one team not get all of them. (I exaggerate to make a point)

That's my opinion... I could be wrong.

[BerserkerSpyke]

I think that you should be able to win the awards at as many regionals as you deserve them at, but if you already have the qualifier for nationals, you should be able to pass on whatever "double" you may incur.

[JC-75]

After thinking a little more: Does it seem like a logical proposal to allow the duplicate winning team to pass on the qualification to the next most qualified team, with the assistance of the judges? This seems a fair way for the team that did well to get the recognition they deserve, while still keep the integrity of the national qualification system intact. I think this sounds fairly reasonable, and I'm sure there are some others who agree? :confused:

[Jherbie53]

After thinking a little more: Does it seem like a logical proposal to allow the duplicate winning team to pass on the qualification to the next most qualified team, with the assistance of the judges? This seems a fair way for the team that did well to get the recognition they deserve, while still keep the integrity of the national qualification system intact. I think this sounds fairly reasonable, and I'm sure there are some others who agree? :confused:
I agree, that if you won an award that sends you to Nationals at one regional, then you could help decide at your next regional who gets that same award. This would be cool to see, a rookie giving an award that qualified them for Nationals to another team. This would be one of the most Gracious Professionalism moments shown by a team, especially from a rookie.

[Lil' Lavery]

Would you like to be the one who has to tell a team who spent the last 2 months of their life working their rear end off to build the best robot feature that they can't win an award for it because they won an award for it last week?
If a team creates something truly THAT innovative that it deserves to win two regional awards, so be it.
And even if you were to impliment such a rule, many of the technical awards are similar enough in fashion that a team could, and would likely, just win a different award. A team winning Motorola Quality could easily just win GM Inudstrial Design next week. So, do we say, you win one technical award, and then you're done?
And dealing with the Championship invites, I think that should be decided by the team. That team, having already earned an invite for Championship, should be the ONLY people with the power to determine if they compete for another championship slot by competing for that award again. Plus, if you make that type of decision for them, where do you stop? Only let teams win the on-field event once so other teams can get a spot at Championship? Only one technical award so more teams have a chance to be published in the book?
My vote, let the team decide whether it should win the award again or not.

[Faith]

I think that if you win 2 spots, you should be able to nominate/give someone your other spot that you think should go/deserves it...

[Jherbie53]

Would you like to be the one who has to tell a team who spent the last 2 months of their life working their rear end off to build the best robot feature that they can't win an award for it because they won an award for it last week?
If a team creates something truly THAT innovative that it deserves to win two regional awards, so be it.
And even if you were to impliment such a rule, many of the technical awards are similar enough in fashion that a team could, and would likely, just win a different award. A team winning Motorola Quality could easily just win GM Inudstrial Design next week. So, do we say, you win one technical award, and then you're done?
And dealing with the Championship invites, I think that should be decided by the team. That team, having already earned an invite for Championship, should be the ONLY people with the power to determine if they compete for another championship slot by competing for that award again. Plus, if you make that type of decision for them, where do you stop? Only let teams win the on-field event once so other teams can get a spot at Championship? Only one technical award so more teams have a chance to be published in the book?
My vote, let the team decide whether it should win the award again or not.
A tech award you should be able to win twice, even if its a different one. Also I don't think any of us have said that we should decide who gets the award twice that sends someone to Nationals, the Team that won should consider stepping down, is what we said. It's not easy, some teams don't think they are going to win twice or don't know that they are up for the award again.

As for winning a regional, that should be left alone. I know some people are going to say, "if you don't let someone win an award twice but let someone win a regional twice, then thats not fair." But winning a regional is different. You might of been picked for an alliance, and helped two other teams win that might of lost in the Finals without you. At West Michigan, three teams that have never won a regional before, won it and teams 85 and 27 have won regionals in the past.

This is a difficult subject to talk about. People will always have two different opinions about everything, and this is one of those things. Maybe letting them receive the award two or more times is right, and maybe not giving them the award twice is right. It's anyones guess what FIRST might do in the future, with or without any input from the teams.

And thats my, hopefully last, little rant about this subject.

[Lil' Lavery]

A tech award you should be able to win twice, even if its a different one. Also I don't think any of us have said that we should decide who gets the award twice that sends someone to Nationals, the Team that won should consider stepping down, is what we said. It's not easy, some teams don't think they are going to win twice or don't know that they are up for the award again.

As for winning a regional, that should be left alone. I know some people are going to say, "if you don't let someone win an award twice but let someone win a regional twice, then thats not fair." But winning a regional is different. You might of been picked for an alliance, and helped two other teams win that might of lost in the Finals without you. At West Michigan, three teams that have never won a regional before, won it and teams 85 and 27 have won regionals in the past.

This is a difficult subject to talk about. People will always have two different opinions about everything, and this is one of those things. Maybe letting them receive the award two or more times is right, and maybe not giving them the award twice is right. It's anyones guess what FIRST might do in the future, with or without any input from the teams.

And thats my, hopefully last, little rant about this subject.
I fully agree with you, I was using the points of how rediculous it is that anyone would say you shouldn't be allowed to win an award twice.