Who else uses scouting sheets?

[JC-75]

I know a lot of teams have elaborate computer and video systems set up at events for scouting purposes, but Team 75 typically uses scouting sheets with robot information not just for getting information in the pits, but also for recording match info, observation of autonomous code behavior, etc. Is anyone else going old school with paper scouting sheets for recording this vast variety of information?

[akshar]

1568 also scouts old school

[Gene Williams]

Teams 70 and 494 also scout with scouting sheets. We've done it this way for years. We have talked about going high tech but just haven't made the leap.

[JAH]

Team 234 uses scouting sheets. For a while we were using computers and what not but it became too complex and it's not something you could just pick up and run over to the drive team with so we've gone back to paper. It's the easiest to use and understand for our team. We scout old school...ooh yeah! :]

[GlitterRave113]

Haha, ya, we, team 433, also use scouting sheets. I think this is partially because none of us would want to carry a computer around...but that's just me, so maybe not.

[AcesPease]

Aces High uses scouting sheets. We also have computer programs for fast statistical rankings, but we don't know how to get comments and autonomous maps into the computer, quickly. Also, with six robots on the field, we do not have enough computers for each robot.

[Vexkingof716]

Team 716 has always used scouting sheets. It wouldn't be any other way.

[Andy Baker]

Team 45 uses scouting sheets.

In 2000-2002, we were in on the scouting collaboration plan, with GMCIA, SOAP & WASH. Also, we've done scouting with Palm Pilots.

After some frustration with those systems, we went back to paper scouting and have not looked back. I think that the thing that ended up making us switch was a crashed computer on a Saturday morning, leaving us with no data at all during alliance picking.

I've heard about some reliable and robust computer-based systems that work well for teams. While that is great for some teams, it is not good for us at this point.

Andy B.

[CmptrGk]

Team 716 has always used scouting sheets. It wouldn't be any other way.

not every year, we found out about it quite early on though. (andy and jaine would remember pre-scouting sheet days the most, but we have all heard the stories.)

[dhitchco]

Our team uses paper-based scouting forms (one for pre-match pit scouting and one for in-match team scouting). This year, we have been using a scanning packaging (ReMark OMR software) to optically-recognize the filled-in circles (e.g sacel of 1-5 for driving ability) which dumps all the match scouting forms into an Excel database.

We pride ourself on the use of this type of technology to augment our FIRST experience. It's been a great learning lesson for students and mentors.

Whatever system you use, just be sure that you're asking questions that are really IMPORTANT. many teams ask a whole bunch of silly questions that really have no bearing on alliance partnerhship selection process.

ps: we used this same software during build season to do timecards for every student, mentor and adult to track when and on what "department" we were spending all our time...

[Bill Moore]

MOE 365 uses scouting sheets. We've played a bit with doing something electronic, but it doesn't fit too well with the method of scouting we do. (We even have a Wi-Fi hub powered by one of the robot batteries -- should last all day at a competition, if we ever decide to use it.)

Electronically, we could capture all the empirical data, but we also want to read the opinions of the scouts as well. If they see something that might suggest another robot's weakness, even if not demonstrated in a match, we want to know that. The next person scouting that team can watch to see if that is indeed a weakness.

We do not assign teams to the scouts. Last year, we assigned times (i.e., 10:00 - 11:00 Friday) to individuals, and whichever teams were competing then were scouted by them. This way, you get multiple points of view on each robot and a better overall picture of its' capabilities and weaknesses.

[JamesBrown]

1568 also scouts old school


That will change at nationals.

[EricH]

We use scouting sheets. Each sheet lasts two matches, and is then turned in to the data entry people, who use Excel to sort the data and teams.

[Zoheb N]

Scouting sheets all the way

[Eugenia Gabrielov]

We have a mixed system. However, most observations are merely written.

[thatphotochick]

1038 uses scouting sheets, then those are put into Excel.

[themagic8ball]

MARRS is a hybrid sheets/computer system. Though you could theoretically have everything computer based our team uses sheets for both watching a match and then printed scouting reports to show our drive team. We get the best of both worlds because MARRS shows Autonomous maps, comments, as well as numerical data.

[jagman2882]

1126 use a paper scouting sheet, but we also input that in to a computer for rankings and such. the sheet is very helpful for the drivers(first-hand experience) you can usally find what u want instantly and then give it back to the scoutmaster.

[Chris Marra]

177 will never go back to Palm Pilot Scouting for the pits. In fact, we didn't even do pit scoting at UTC or Philly this year. We went around during friday awards, and took a good picture of each team, and made assumptions of capabilities based on that.

For match scouting we have two mentors (ex-team members / drivers) who take their own seperate notes on teams they see in matches, and then we have lots of students who scout every team of every match, and compile that into a big book. So that way we have three seperate opinions, since the mentors are both somewhat opinionated, and the students quality varies.

[Warren Boudreau]

Team SPAM uses scouting sheets. Then we take the information and load it into STAMP for statistical analysis.

Computers are fun, but nothing beats a piece of paper and a pencil.

[nparikh]

Team 25 has finally moved into the future. For as long as I've been on the team, since the '04 season, we've used regular paper scoutings sheets + a filling bin...yay for that.

But after getting frustrated with having over 1200 sheets of paper to store, etc, by the end of 2 regionals, we've finally moved over to a paper/computer system.

Yes, our scouts do record information on scouting sheets (one for the match, one specifically for autonomous)...then that data gets fed into our amazing Scouting Program for analysis, output, and just about everything else under the blue moon!

This year I happened to notice that about 5 of us Robotics kids were in the AP Computer Science Class, and I figured, what a neat way to get hands on experience coding Java & we'd get a really neat scouting program. Regardless, we worked tirelessly with the help of Shoham & Mrs. Morris (our computer science teacher who spent loads of time designing + perfecting it), it was done in time for the NJ Regional.

In addition, we have 2 video cameras taping matches and a photo team that gets pictures of every robot. These are fed into Google's Picasa for labeling, viewing, and searching.

We pride ourselves on the fact that about 95% of the data we collect is pure statistics, leaving out a significant portion of error and uncertainty that occurs with opinionated scouting. Luckily, I've got about 8-10 people that work hard and long all through the competition making sure we have accurate data, footage and pictures.

When the system was finally put into use at NJ & Las Vegas, it proved to be incredibly successful in helping us find the best robots, and also for helping to develop strategy for rounds. At both regionals, we made our scouting data available to any team who wished to take a look through it.

So yeah, we use computer + paper scouting. Paper means we always have a backup. Computers mean we have amazing speed & efficiency when looking up information. I don't think we'll ever look back :cool:

[Ebolagirl]

418 just used scouting sheets this year for both pit and match scouting and we organized them in a folder file. We tried using an excel, but it just didn't work out. The sheets were great though. So yeah, I'm all for just having scouting sheets.

[Katlyn_Butzin]

our team does the computer thing but every team member has to scout 3 teams a day and they have to scout 6matches for each team every day! but when we do our normal scouting matches they are on old scouting shets but when we get to the hotel we have a team meeting and discuss our teams and then the drive team has a way of getting pionts for evey thing on the sheets and we keep it in a book for them to look at in the pit but once wenter it into the computer it ranks each team individually...so yea we do alittle bit of both!
((*Katy*)) Team 66 :D

[JC-75]

Don't know if anyone said this yet but one advantage to having scouting sheets is you can give the extras to teams who don't have a system set up... and there are always LOTS of extras =)

[Kyle A]

Team 306 changed SPAMS scouting sheets into something that would work for us.

[pyroslev]

I have almost every sheet downloaded post on CD and various websites. I like to see what other teams look for. The Long ones that the huge teams use get cut down.

Based on what wins, I've revamped and rebuilt my sheets so that pit scoutinggets 6 teams to a page. All of that corresponds with an Access Database which get filled in afterwards

[themagic8ball]

I just posted the MARRS scouting sheets on CD Media. Check them out if you would like.

[Gary Dillard]

Team SPAM uses scouting sheets. Then we take the information and load it into STAMP for statistical analysis.
If anyone is interested, here is our Poor Man's Scouting System (http://spamrobotics.com/skins/spamination/index.php?page=scouting), including a tutorial and downloadable scouting sheets.

We are in the process of modifying the scouting sheets based on feedback from the students over 2 regionals and the important input to the STAMP program - hopefully we'll get it on the website shortly.

[Warren Boudreau]

Team 306 changed SPAMS scouting sheets into something that would work for us.

Yeah. SPAM has changed it's scouting sheets into something that would work better, too.

Each regional we go to, we come up with improvements. Now we have color and little pictures of the field.

[YonZ]

Our strategy director made an attempt at using STAMP. Feeble at best.
When that failed, someone else stepped up to the plate and worked his butt off coordinating the good old sheet scout method, which included pit as well as gameplay sheets which had digital pictures of robot, a field plan to sketch autonomous, comment boxes, and actual match data stuff in spreadsheet form.
His hard work paid off, as we were able to know everything about teams that numbers generated on a computer program could not show. We knew teams weak spots, how to hold off against them, and how to direct our allies to do the same. His sheets proved useful in the seeding matches, but absolutely awesome in the Final matches, where before each pairing we would take out their teams sheets and use them to devise plans, ultimately taking us to the finals (and putting up an awesome fight against the winning alliance, 395/375/1880, in our last round)

[rick.oliver]

As Emily posted earlier, we use paper scouting sheets during the matches to assess teams' performances (offensive and defensive). We enter the data collected on the scouting sheets into excel worksheets and calculate an offensive and defensive rating for each team. This data, along with observations and judgment, are used to generate our selection list.

We also use the sheets for developing our match strategy during the Qualifying Rounds. I've attached the Word Document.

If anybody is interested in the Excel file, email me privately, the file size is too large to upload (about 360 kb, I think). I created a workbook for each division that contains the tab for each team and a summary sheet that extracts the ratings onto a single sheet for sorting.

[MChapman]

Team 176 uses scouting sheets in the pits and on the field. However thanks to one of our students with the help of a mentor he set up his very own scouting program on his laptop! Must I add that it works great! :D

[sebas2mil]

we have used our scouting system in the computers since 2005 and it has worked out great specially in Palmetto with the 247 scouter we came up with the stats for the quater semi and finals matches

that is what we are going to use at nationals this year but we are trying to do it wireless like in Palmetto but it won't be as easy because the wireless router might not reach

any suggestions on that????


also we are going to look at the reagionals of the other curie teams to scout them before nationals

[av11d]

We actually developed an elaborate digital scouting system in 2004. We brought a server to the competition that hosted a central database. Scouting information was entered using an HTML interface that was on a number of laptops. The database was programmed using WebObjects and stored robot/match information as well as pictures.

In 2005, we went back to paper.

[JackN]

Like Mr. Williams said we use scouting sheets. It give us easy to find reliable info on any team that we need. When all you need is one sheet that can some up a team for you it is excellent.

[AndyB]

We do scouting sheets. We honestly don't really care much about pit scouting. We do do a little bit. We scout a ton during the matches and have 1 student/mentor/parent take a robot and scout them for that match. Then we have one person as the organizer, who collects the sheets, organizes them into the pile, and then hands out new sheets. This system works pretty well as long as you have enough people to do it.

Unlike a lot of other scouting sheet systems I have seen, we only have 1 sheet per bot. This makes it a lot easier for when we are in a hurry.

Then, if we are in a picking position for the next day, that night, we either:

1.) Have me go through all of the sheets and write up a scouting report for each of them.

2.) Go through the sheets as a team, black listing teams (lol), brown listing teams, and gold listing teams. We also try to rank the top defensive teams we see as well. We did this at Nationals this year, so I don't know if it will stick. After we ranks the teams, I spend the night writing a scouting report on the teams and decide which ones we need more info on.

Then about an hour or so before the picking, I meet up with our team leader(s) and we decide a final ranking sheet for the top 20 or so bots for offense, and the top 7-8 teams for defense (Nationals). At regionals, since there are a lot less teams, we rank all of the teams.

[Nita]

Team 1190 uses scouting sheets as well.

[Jeremiah Johnson]

Well... 648 uses scouting sheets. Both pit and stand/match. They are then entered into a statistical database using Excel. This year we accurately counted the number of balls made by a single robot, how defensively minded a team was, the speed of a shooter, and their autonomous tendencies. I would post more info but the system is kinda secretive until perfected, I suppose. Ed does a great job on it every year. And thanks to the students that input the info into the computers. The data helps a lot as a coach.

[Graham Donaldson]

You can count 1676 in for this year at Palmetto as well, however we merged the two, comps and paper. Round-to-round scouting was done on papers, which then came to me at the top of the stadium for compilation. The team by team stats were printed out before each round and run down to the drive team for planning. Next year we want to develop a system that can be on a network we set up that can be accessed by the drive team in the pits on a laptop that can get a wireless signal. When a person scouts a team, after he is done he will save the info on the server and it will automatically appear on the screens it should. This is how I want to see it, but I don't know how it will work out. Our district (Pascack Valley Regional High School District in upper Bergen County, NJ) gives each student a SONY VAIO laptop with wireless access, so this makes this system much easier for us. Anyways, that's how I want to do it. But you can never beat paper for quick, flawless transfer of data (why do computers crash???)

The Canuck

[prettycolors91]

scouting sheets all the way. it gets hectic...chaotic....crazy...disorganized and so on. at least i wasnt in charge this year! :D

[Graham Donaldson]

at least i wasnt in charge this year! :D

Problem is that I was. I was in the lobby of our hotel [in Columbia for the Palmetto Regional] until 10 o'clock compiling everything just for the matches that we knew we would have the next day. It was a chore, but knowing that the scouting we had was a good part of the reason we got to the finals as a second-year team made it all worth it.

[Brian C]

1468 also uses dead trees and sticks, er.... I mean paper and pencils to scout with. Our old team 311 also used this as we found it to be more reliable.

The biggest thing we run into is to make sure everyone scouting is using the same terminology when referring to a mechanism/robot/playing style/whatever. After the robot ships we record video from some of the scrimmages or first week regionals and have the scouting team practice scouting while watching the video. While not perfect it allows the scouters to learn what to look for and also allows us to refine the form layout.

We usually end up with about 5 or 6 revisions until we come up with something that can be used and understood easily.

We have found from experiance that to much information or detail can be just as bad as not enough information.

[RoboMadi]

There are few ways this job can be done in simple ways.

1. Have your scouts going around with paper and pencil to gather information. At the same time have them report back to one person who will computerized the whole data (Word or Notepad would work). So by the time your team get to a match, one only have to use Ctrl+F and type in the team number to find the information.

2. Last year our programmers were really bored, so they put together a program called ScoutPro. It was simply build and was mainly to input data about teams, including the result of all the matches and etc. Unfortunately the license expired and we were not able to use it this year.

Other than that, using paper-pencil method is simple and more fun. You don't have to carry a laptop around, plus you actually 'talk' to the other team and take notes instead of supporting a laptop on your lap and trying to type in the data.

[Jeff Waegelin]

In the past 6 years, I've used strictly paper 3 times, an Access database once, Pocket PCs once, and a paper/excel hybrid once. Each, I've found, has its own benefits and problems.

Paper is generally the easiest to use if you have limited resources and limited planning/preparation time. You can make a good paper scouting system in a couple of hours, print it out, and you're done. Paper allows for maximum flexibility in writing notes, drawing pictures, and generally using it for whatever you feel is necessary information. It also has the lowest "learning curve" for bringing new scouting people up to speed. That being said, paper is cumbersome. Often times, sheets aren't filled out properly (or at all!), and whoever is organizing the scouting has to sift through reams and reams of paper to find the relevant information. You also have to keep all the sheets organized, and it usually takes one dedicated person just to organize sheets for the 6 scouters. All things considered, however, if I were to be running scouting again, with a small team, I'd probably stick with paper because of the simplicity of management and development.

The method my team used this year was one step up in technology: using Excel to record data from scouting sheets (which were shared with another team). This was helpful in that it allowed us (a very small team) to share scouting data with another, larger team. It consolidated the data into one place for viewing, which was also nice. However, the sheets we used were poorly designed for excel viewing, and the people who recorded data into excel often missed important things, like the fact that 365 liked to drive up onto the ramp to score. If I were to do this again, I would design my own sheets to be computer-oriented from the beginning, and possibly consider a more robust program, like Access, for managing data.

The most complicated method I've ever used was the Pocket PC system my high school team used in 2003. We had 5 Pocket PCs, 4 for recording match data, and one for the drive team to view before matches. The software was written from scratch by one of the students, and it could be viewed in Pocket Internet Explorer. All the data then went into a database on a laptop in the stands. It was supposed to be synchronized using Wi-Fi, but the amount of interference, and the low power of the wireless on the PPCs made this impossible. We resorted to using sync cables to manually synchronize data, which was very difficult and cumbersome. We also had issues with students playing solitaire instead of scouting :p Being able to pull up pictures of each of the match's robots, and view any data I wanted before a match was a nice touch, but the system itself was... difficult to work with at best. A more robust and organized system might have solved this, but I never really warmed up to the palm scouting idea. If I had a large budget (palms are the most expensive method) and lots of pre-season software development time or enough personnel to program it during the season, I might consider it again, though.

Of everything I used, though, the one that worked best was the Access database. I used it in 2002, which, fortunately was a simple game. We had one person enter all the data directly into the computer. It was comprehensive, easy to use, and very easy to get data out. Unfortunately, given the complexity of most games, it wouldn't be possible to do it exactly like this anymore. If I were to do it now, though, I think it would be fairly easy to have scouters write information on sheets or palms, and import the data into Access. It makes things a lot easier to view than Excel, and it's easier to organize volumes of data into a structure that makes sense. If I had my way, this is probably how I'd do scouting, as a paper/Access hybrid, or maybe palm/Access if I'm feeling adventurous.

[Joohoo]

we used sheets this year, but one thing that was pretty cool was a java applet, that allowed a scout to record and show an individual team's auto modes.

[AndyB]

I just got done printing out 80 scouting sheets for IRI 2006. We are using scouting sheets, and then I, on friday night, put all of the data from all of the sheets into an Excel file that I created. Having a laptop is really nice for competetions. I have a main page, team list, friday's rankings, cheatsheet, and draft table sheets. We also have a sheet for each team in the competition, so when it comes time to pick or stratagize, i just arrow over to the correct sheet and all of the data is right there for me.

I warn you, this process usually leads to getting ABSOLUTLY no sleep on friday night.

If any body wants the Excel file(s), I can email it to you. I can't tell you how happy it makes me to see a team scouting, especially after being picked by teams in the past who havent scouted. I can send you excel files of:

The scouting sheet we use
The scouting data review program I use (Set up for IRI 2006)

It isnt really a program, just an Excel file with a million sheets (tabs)

[Katie Hans]

We use scouting sheets when we're in the pits, as well as take pictures with a digital camera. Additional information on the robots can be written on the back of the sheet, since it's blank (or at least the ones we used this year are).

Anyways. After the scouting is more or less finished, the information that we wrote on the back of the sheets is transferred to a Word document and saved as that team's number, and the same goes for the robot pictures. That way, it's a little easier to find information and match it to the robot.

The night before alliance selection, we have a scouting meeting, attended by everyone who helped with scouting and the team leaders. That's when we review information and pictures, and that's when we make the decision of who we might pick as alliance partners if we're seeded. Or, we try to make a decision.

That's how it works on our team, as far as I know. I'm not very experienced, but that's how we did it when I was helping.

[AndyB]

Sorry to get off-topic here, but I had to host the given file for someone, so I decided just to post it up for anyone who wants it. It is preformated for IRI 2006. You might find it useful.

http://www.ihud.com/file.php?file=files/070706/1152229469/IRI+Scouting.zip

If you want the scouting sheet we are using, just ask.

[234smidget]

cyberblue 234 uses scouting sheets at all competitions sites...on or off season events


i found scouting very interesting you learn more about different designs of robots it may not help this year but next year during design process that design may come up and be useful :D

[AndyB]

Yeah, scouting definitly gives you some ideas in in the long run, makes you MUCH smarter. You learn how everything works, and the idle way to make it work. We had a mentor spend an hour at nationals on his hands and knees looking over Beatty's bot.

God bless scouting.

[nparikh]

Yeah, scouting definitly gives you some ideas in in the long run, makes you MUCH smarter. You learn how everything works, and the idle way to make it work. We had a mentor spend an hour at nationals on his hands and knees looking over Beatty's bot.

God bless scouting.

Hahah, well put. That's absolutely true. Scouting is quintessential to doing well at a FIRST competition. And not only does it help you do well, but it also increases the number of jobs you have, so kids aren't left with nothing to do!

But back to the point. For those of you that saw Team 25's scouting 'pit' at NJ/Vegas this year, be prepared for the beast to be unleashed next year. As I said before, we designed our own program from Java this year, but next year's program is being written in conjunction with some higher level programmers...hope it turns out well!:yikes:

*note to newer FIRST teams*
always keep a paper copy. always, always, always, always! it's a fact of life, when you need the data the most, your computer will probably crash. The way we do it is to have the data recorded on paper scouting sheets and then entered into the server/computers for statistical analysis and sorting purposes. It works out very well in cases where we have anomalies in data, or ...well our computers crash!

[Kristian Calhoun]

But back to the point. For those of you that saw Team 25's scouting 'pit' at NJ/Vegas this year, be prepared for the beast to be unleashed next year. As I said before, we designed our own program from Java this year, but next year's program is being written in conjunction with some higher level programmers...hope it turns out well!:yikes:

*note to newer FIRST teams*
always keep a paper copy. always, always, always, always! it's a fact of life, when you need the data the most, your computer will probably crash. The way we do it is to have the data recorded on paper scouting sheets and then entered into the server/computers for statistical analysis and sorting purposes. It works out very well in cases where we have anomalies in data, or ...well our computers crash!

Hmmm...could this warning be because of that prank we pulled on you at the Vegas Regional?... :rolleyes:

[nparikh]

Hmmm...could this warning be because of that prank we pulled on you at the Vegas Regional?... :rolleyes:

*hurts Kristian*

What they're referring to is at the Las Vegas Regional..I stepped outside our 'scouting pit' for 5 minutes to talk to someone. They urgently call me and start screaming that all the data's been lost and that the hard drive's have gone bad, etc, etc. On the scream it says that there's been a CHK DISK error and something about cyclic redundancy. So whilst I'm flipping out, they scream out all together.."GOTCHA".

It turns out the programmers had just edited the code to freak me out. I guess payback for working everyone to the bones ;) .

[Cactus_Robotics]

I know the members on my team have a whole scouting network, we have one scout with a form to watch each robot in a match then enter all the results into the computer. Also 2 years ago if anyone at AZ remembers, we had a wireless network set up using pringles cans aimed at stands and one at our pit and it sent all the scouting info over the network and other teams linked up to it with us. it was pretty sweet.

[addictedMax]

We did at IRI (camping chairs up in the corner)

[Astronouth7303]

For one of the regionals we visited, I created a single page scouting page and then printed a bunch. I also loaded the same sheet on my tablet, so that I had pretty much unlimited paper in a 1"-thick package.

[Nica F.]

We use scouting sheets, but also input them onto an excel program one of our members made, but in addition to just having them on the computer, we compile them into a binder as well.

[Pirate_Nelly354]

We used scouting sheets at the regional event but it ended up being a messy-ish job = | Some team members watched the matches and remembered info mentally instead ^^;;

[pyrr101]

Our team uses people in the stands, one per robot and then sends them to a team of people to input them into a network that has a program to analyze the data and able to print summaries of the teams.

This works well but takes several people working and rotating out to keep it working well.

Click here (http://www.team537.com) for our website, from it you can get to the program info that we developed for the game.

[DevilChild]

We have a Scouting captain (he prefers to be called "The Scouter") who writes up an in-depth, yet comprehensive sheet, and we assign sheets to every person on the team. It's just as good as any technology, in our opinion.

[travis48elite]

Team 48 scouts old school! We tried hand held organizers last season (2005) but we kept on running into problems trying to transfer the information to the computer so we went back to the old school way. We usually scout in the pits and and on the field during the matches to compare what we have on the teams. Also we usually record matches on camera so that the drivers can look over it later to strategize.

[Josh Murphy]

We still use the scouting sheets and 1 person inputs it all into the computer. It seems to work easier and much smoother. We get all of our information by just observing the matches. We normally get our list by how the teams performed during thier matches. :)