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Trashed20
06-13-2002, 07:49 PM
has anyone heard anything about the registration for nationals next year? is it going to stay the same or go back to the way we did it previous years?

p.s. this is the 1200th post :)

Nate Smith
06-14-2002, 08:21 AM
...I think we can safely expect the following:

-Yes, there will be some form of qualifying scheme for competing at nationals this coming year.
-Yes, you will be required to register for at least one regional before being allowed to register for nationals.
-Yes, odd numbered teams will get a first-come, first-served shot at any remaining slots for the championship.
-Yes, chairman's award winners will automatically get a spot at championships...whether or not the regional chairman's winners(this year's award finalists) automatically get a spot this year or every year is anyone's guess...

Tom Fairchild
06-19-2002, 12:22 AM
Originally posted by Nate Smith

-Yes, odd numbered teams will get a first-come, first-served shot at any remaining slots for the championship.


I think ya mean even since its next year.

~Tom Fairchild~

Elgin Clock
06-19-2002, 12:45 AM
No, he's right odd number teams will be first come first serve, then even numbered teams will be let in as they qualify or are lucky enough to get in.

This year, 2002, even teams got right in

Next year, 2003, odd teams will get right in.

Quain
06-19-2002, 11:52 AM
hehe... all i know is all you teams better be prepared to face the ROYAL ASSAULT!! we're gonna rock Nats and get more cool trophys.. :-)

Jnadke
06-19-2002, 01:39 PM
Originally posted by Elgin Clock
No, he's right odd number teams will be first come first serve, then even numbered teams will be let in as they qualify or are lucky enough to get in.

This year, 2002, even teams got right in

Next year, 2003, odd teams will get right in.

That would suck if they passed up odd numbered teams completely due to the expanding number of teams....


Methinks Disney is gonna need a bigger parking lot pretty soon.

Ashley Weed
06-19-2002, 02:20 PM
I think FIRST and Disney really need to figure something else out. There are so many deserving teams of going to Nationals, it's to hard to say someone can't go. For instance, if my team wasn't even this year, even after all of the awards and successes we had, we wouldn't been invited to Nationals. My thought is, either have a west coast Nationals and an east coast Nationals, one at Disney World, and one at Disneyland. Or, hold it all at Disney World, they are incredibly large in size, and would be able to accomidate everyone. They have MGM, Magic Kingdom, Epcot, and Animal Kingdom. Have four 'mini' competitions, with each being a division. They could accomodate the amount of teams that go to Nationals x3 by using the other locations. Then take so many of the top alliances from each of the four divisions (perhaps the Finalists & Winner), have them meet at a central location (maybe Epcot), and have the Championship Finals. This way, for many years, Nationals can continue to grow in size. Lets say there will be a max of 300 teams in each division, that means Disney could easily accomodate 1,200 teams for Nationals!

Nate Smith
06-19-2002, 02:39 PM
Originally posted by weedie
I think FIRST and Disney really need to figure something else out. There are so many deserving teams of going to Nationals, it's to hard to say someone can't go.

This discussion has been brought up here many times before, and without getting it started up again, I'll mention just a few points:

-Any solution that FIRST and Disney come up with is only temporary, if that solution is designed to allow every team a chance to attend.

-FIRST is billed as an "academic sport" of sorts. Using the sport analogy, which other high school/college sports say, "OK, we have the state finals(regionals) and get a state champion, but then anybody who wants to go to nationals can go..."?

-The split park setup at WDW has been mentioned before as well. One thing to consider is the massive logistical nightmare in transporting all the teams to and from the various sites, with tools, robots, etc...we stress Disney's bus lines enough getting to and from the one site as it is...

Mike Soukup
06-19-2002, 05:56 PM
Originally posted by weedie
I think FIRST and Disney really need to figure something else out. There are so many deserving teams of going to Nationals, it's to hard to say someone can't go.

I agree with everything Nate said, but I have one more point to add. For a long time the participants in FIRST were fortunate since each team got the opportunity to attend Nationals every year. We all got used to it and expected it to be that way forever. Last year FIRST changed their view of the competition and changed its name to 'The Championship'. Instead of leaving the Championship as a large competition that everyone can attend, they attempted to turn it into a competition for the best teams to fight for the title. Some may not agree with the actual process to select qualified teams, but that's a small issue.

Many people don't like the idea of limiting Nationals and think it should be open to any team that can make the trip. That's a valid position. However people with this opinion usually argue that FIRST can do X to fit more people in Disney or do Y to hold two national competitions. Those are not good arguments because it does not attack the main issue: FIRST decided to turn Nationals into an exclusive competition. Change FIRST's mind on that matter, then worry about finding the space for everyone to compete.

fyi, I agree with FIRST's decision, so don't expect any help from me :D

Mike

Rick
06-19-2002, 06:30 PM
i think only teams that win or are finalists in a regional should be allowed to go. past years national champs would also have a ticket forever. Past chairmans award winners also have a ticket forever. and the regional chairmans award winners would go. the national animation award winners would have a free ticket forever. and remember 25 regionals next year.

heres the math folks.

12 original teams: 12 teams
10 years of nats: 34 teams
11 years of chairmans award winners: 11 teams
6 Animation Award winners: 6 teams
25 regionals x 3 champions: 75 teams
25 regionals x 3 finalists: 75 teams
25 regional chairmans award. 25 teams

total: 238 teams


next year, to be fair, FIRST has to use their policy from this year. just an idea. The true national competition would just have the regional winners there.

Jeff Rodriguez
06-19-2002, 08:17 PM
The problem with having the current year's regioanl winners, finalists, and chairmans winners is travel. It's hard to get reservations for 30 people to disney a month of 2 ahead of time, nevermind the regionals the week before nats, and its expensive.

The solution: FIRST & Delta Airlines - FIRST teams fly FREE!!
or: FIRST makes flight reservations and gives them to the winning teams,

Rick
06-19-2002, 10:27 PM
heres a simple solution. start having regionals the week after ship date and push back nats till about the middle/end of may. run 5 regionals a weekend for a month and a week. then give teams around 2 months to figure out travel. since only 40 teams know they are going that leaves the rest on an even playing field.

Jeff Waegelin
06-20-2002, 11:00 AM
Originally posted by Ogre
The problem with having the current year's regioanl winners, finalists, and chairmans winners is travel. It's hard to get reservations for 30 people to disney a month of 2 ahead of time, nevermind the regionals the week before nats, and its expensive.


Yes, it is hard, but it can be done. We did it this year. We were not pre-qualified for Nationals, but when we won the Buckeye Regional, we qualified. This gave us about six weeks or so to plan the trip. We had about 30 people going, including parents, and it wasn't easy, but we were able to find some good deals on airfares and hotels, and were able to do the whole trip for the 13 students and 2 mentors (the parents paid their own way). So, to all you naysayers, a quick trip is possible. You might not get the cheapest airfares, and you might not be able to take your whole 50-member team, but it can be done, nonetheless.

DaBruteForceGuy
06-20-2002, 12:12 PM
I think that my team was jipped because we were an even # team this year. We did awesome as a rookie team earning 4 points worth of rookie seed awards and rookie alstars. So even though we went to nats automatically they say that we can use those points for next year BUT in order to be able to add-on to those we need to get some sort of technical award, and get that extra point to go!
I was wondering if i am right about this. Did anybody else run into the same problem?

Nate Smith
06-20-2002, 01:11 PM
Originally posted by DaBruteForceGuy
We did awesome as a rookie team earning 4 points worth of rookie seed awards and rookie alstars. So even though we went to nats automatically they say that we can use those points for next year BUT in order to be able to add-on to those we need to get some sort of technical award, and get that extra point to go!
I was wondering if i am right about this.

Yes and no...you are correct that using the 2002 formula, you have 4 points, and under the rules given to us back in September(approximately), you would need one more point to qualify for next year's nationals. Keep in mind that this same situation applies to every other even numbered team this year.

However, FIRST has not yet released the formula for determining Championship qualification for 2003. Therefore, the point values may change, other things may be taken into consideration, and you may end up qualifying after all.

None of us really know for sure until FIRST releases the qualification formula, so anything that is brought up here is purely speculation. I have a feeling FIRST isn't going to be saying anything certain before they hold the team forums on August 1.