What would a FIRST Triple Crown be? [Archive]

Billfred

19-04-2006, 11:52

N.B.: Yes, winning the awards isn't the ultimate goal of FIRST--but they do act as a good yardstick as to what a team has accomplished.

If there were a mythical Triple Crown of the FIRST Robotics Competition, what would the three awards or achievements be?

rees2001

19-04-2006, 11:55

seems easy enough to me...
Chairman's
Event Winner
WFA

Jeff Rodriguez

19-04-2006, 11:59

I think 67 achieved it last year, 2005.
A regional win, a regional chairman's, a championship win, and a championship chairman's.

I'd say for one event a Triple Crown would be Chairman's, Event winner and Woodie Flowers Award.

The Lucas

19-04-2006, 12:01

Champions, Chairman's Award, Woodie Flowers Award.
I had been calling it the "Triple Play" after last year's game but "Triple Crown" is better. Those are the 3 Highest awards in their Category.

Several teams have done it at Regionals: 25 at Trenton, 111 at Midwest, 365 last year at Philly.
No team has done it at Championship in one year. I haven't checked if any team has done it at Championship over their entire history. If 45 wins Chairman's they will have done it.

Jon Jack

19-04-2006, 12:03

I'd have to say

Chairmans
WFA
Event Winner

I don't think anyone's accomplished that at the championship, yet. However, 25 did it at the regional level.

Jessica Boucher

19-04-2006, 12:04

If you want to follow the strictest sense of the award, the Triple Crown of FIRST could only be winning three separate events.

The Lucas

19-04-2006, 12:07

If you want to follow the strictest sense of the award, the Triple Crown of FIRST could only be winning three separate events.
Separate events like animation?

Jon Jack

19-04-2006, 12:09

Separate events like animation?

I would imagine three seperate competitions, like horse racing.

Jessica Boucher

19-04-2006, 12:12

Separate events like animation?

Exactly. If you explore their website (http://www.thetriplecrownchallenge.com/), the horse must be three years old and must win all three events: the Kentucky Derby, the Preakness Stakes, and the Belmont Stakes.

Billfred

19-04-2006, 12:12

If you want to follow the strictest sense of the award, the Triple Crown of FIRST could only be winning three separate events.
This is true, but since the awards we're talking about are in different fields, I think we can let it slide. (The robots have little or nothing to do with Chairman's, after all.)

The Champion/Chairman's/WFA combination was pretty much what I was thinking. It also leads to some interesting data:

HOT (67) is the only team to have the Championship Triple Crown, as they've won the Championship (2005), won Chairman's (2005), and had a mentor receive the WFA (Dave Verbrugge, 2002).

The TechnoKats (45) are almost there (1998 Champions, Andy Baker won WFA in 2003). They could complete it next week with a Chairman's win. 71 is in the same boat (Champions 1997, 2001, 2002, 2004, and Bill Beatty won WFA in 2001).

65 can't seal the deal this season, but they're also close (Champions 2003, Ken Patton WFA in 1999).

I just compared WFA winners with their team's awards--did I miss anyone who is also close?

BRosser314

19-04-2006, 12:33

Correct me if im wrong but i believe that WildStang won the "Triple Crown" all in one regional. At Midwest 2006 Dan Green won WFA, and the won both Event Winner and Chairmans at Midwest also. They also won the Radio Shack Innovation In Control Award too. And at wisconsin they won yet another event and Radio Shack.

I think for teams that have won all three of these in won regional or championship should recieve the "Golden Triple Crown".

This is true, but since the awards we're talking about are in different fields, I think we can let it slide. (The robots have little or nothing to do with Chairman's, after all.)

The Champion/Chairman's/WFA combination was pretty much what I was thinking. It also leads to some interesting data:

HOT (67) is the only team to have the Championship Triple Crown, as they've won the Championship (2005), won Chairman's (2005), and had a mentor receive the WFA (Dave Verbrugge, 2002).

The TechnoKats (45) are almost there (1998 Champions, Andy Baker won WFA in 2003). They could complete it next week with a Chairman's win. 71 is in the same boat (Champions 1997, 2001, 2002, 2004, and Bill Beatty won WFA in 2001).

65 can't seal the deal this season, but they're also close (Champions 2003, Ken Patton WFA in 1999).

I just compared WFA winners with their team's awards--did I miss anyone who is also close?

pathew100

19-04-2006, 12:34

Don't forget Baseball's Triple Crown, which is leading your league (AL or NL) in batting average, home runs, and runs batted in (RBI), in the same season. Doing this is VERY hard, in fact the last person to do it was Carl Yastrzemski in 1967!

So I think the FIRST triple crown should be really hard to accomplish and it should be for 3 awards in the same year.

I think HOT Team nailed it with a Regional Chairman's, Championship Win and Championship Chairman's all in the same year! I doubt if this will happen again in FIRST for a long time.

(I left out regional winner because there are a lot of them. Also Woodie Flowers is more of an individual award and I wanted to focus on team awards.)

David Brinza

19-04-2006, 12:34

RogerR

19-04-2006, 12:38

event-wise, i think it would be one regional, championships (of course) and an off-season. so for roger's triple crown, you'd have to win the GTR, championship, and IRI.

JVN

19-04-2006, 12:57

We call it the "trifecta":
WFA, Event Winner, and Chairman's.

Wildstang got the "double trifecta" over the past 2 years in Chicago.

dez250

19-04-2006, 13:01

Also Woodie Flowers is more of an individual award and I wanted to focus on team awards.

Whats the WFA without the recipients team?

1997: Liz Calef, FRC 88
1998: Michael Bastoni, PNTA
1999:Ken Patton, FRC 65
2000: Kyle Hughes, FRC 27
2001: Bill Beatty, FRC 71
2002: Dave Verbrugge, FRC 67
2003: Andy Baker, FRC 45
2004: David Kelso, FRC 131
2005: Paul Copioli, FRC 217

While I agree that the Woodie Flowers Award is an individuals award, I also see it as a teams accomplishment to be proud of. With out the team, the mentor would not have been recognized by a panel of judges over hundreds of other entries.

Personally i think a FIRST Triple Crown might consists of a combination of the following in the same year [on a corresponding level]:

Rookie Year Regional:

Rookie All Star
Engineering Inspiration
WFFA
Regional Champion
Post Rookie Year Regional:

Engineering Inspiration
Regional Chairmans
WFFA
Regional Champions
Rookie Year Championship:

Rookie All Star
Rookie Inspiration
WFA Recipient
Divisional Champions
Championship Finalists
Championship Winners
Founders Award Recipients
Post Rookie Year Championship:

Engineering Inspiration
Chairmans Recipients
WFA Recipient
Championship Finalists
Championship Winners
Founders Award Recipients

Jeff Rodriguez

19-04-2006, 13:02

What about the following combination of team awards for "Triple Crown":

Championship
Chairman's Award
Engineering Inspiration Award

The WFA is really an individual award, although winning it is clearly a team accomplishment.

I don't know if Chairman's and Engineering Inspiration are mutually exclusive awards at a given event, but according to FIRST's documentation, they are the highest and second highest awards that can be bestowed on a team.

There haven't been any teams that have won Chairman's and Engineering Inspiration at the same event. Have there?
Because both awards qualify a team for the championship, they give them to different teams.

The Lucas

19-04-2006, 13:02

I don't know if Chairman's and Engineering Inspiration are mutually exclusive awards at a given event, but according to FIRST's documentation, they are the highest and second highest awards that can be bestowed on a team.
They are mutually exclusive at a given event. Some Chairman's Teams win EI at a different event where they didn't apply for Chairman's. This year, 357 won EI at Florida, then Chairman's at Philly. At some regionals, EI is given to the runner up for Chairman's.

Don't forget Baseball's Triple Crown, which is leading your league (AL or NL) in batting average, home runs, and runs batted in (RBI), in the same season. Doing this is VERY hard, in fact the last person to do it was Carl Yastrzemski in 1967!
I think of Chairman's, Champion & WFA like baseball's Triple Crown rather than Horse Racing. The 3 categories (AVG & HR & RBI) are loosely related like CA CMP & WFA, unlike Horse Racing where the 3 races are the very similar (different distances, but pretty much the same horses).

Lil' Lavery

19-04-2006, 13:16

The WFA is really an individual award, although winning it is clearly a team accomplishment.

I don't know if Chairman's and Engineering Inspiration are mutually exclusive awards at a given event, but according to FIRST's documentation, they are the highest and second highest awards that can be bestowed on a team.
I agree that because WFA is really an individual award I wouldn't include it in a team "triple crown" feat. EI and CA are NOT actually mutually exclusive, but I highly doubt any team will ever win them both at the same competition. I think there's kind of an unwritten rule not to give them to the same team, similar to how you never see a team win two technical awards at the same event (they will give them a more global technical award instead of two specific ones, for example).

I'd give a "quadruple crown":
Chairman's
Champions
Technical Award
"Computer" Award (Website, Animation, Inventor, etc.)

BRosser314

19-04-2006, 13:26

I was also thinking Engineering Inspiration Award because it is after all the second highest awards FIRST gives out. :D

What about the following combination of team awards for "Triple Crown":

Championship
Chairman's Award
Engineering Inspiration Award

The WFA is really an individual award, although winning it is clearly a team accomplishment.

I don't know if Chairman's and Engineering Inspiration are mutually exclusive awards at a given event, but according to FIRST's documentation, they are the highest and second highest awards that can be bestowed on a team.

BRosser314

19-04-2006, 13:29

There haven't been any teams that have won Chairman's and Engineering Inspiration at the same event. Have there?
Because both awards qualify a team for the championship, they give them to different teams.

If this was the case how did 111 WEildStang win at Midwest 2006.

The Lucas

19-04-2006, 13:36

If this was the case how did 111 WEildStang win at Midwest 2006.
WildStang has never won an Engineering Inspiration Award. Are you thinking of WFA?

JJG13

19-04-2006, 13:44

I love baseball so I think of the baseball version of the Triple Crown (most home runs, most RBIs, highest batting average)

Therefore the Triple Crown at an event should be about the offensive power of a team.

To win the Robotics Triple Crown, your team needs to have the:

1) Highest alliance score in a match.
2) Highest average alliance score.
3) Most wins.

rufu5

19-04-2006, 13:54

event-wise, i think it would be one regional, championships (of course) and an off-season. so for roger's triple crown, you'd have to win the GTR, championship, and IRI.

In the horse racing sense I agree. It should be:

One of the toughest regionals
Championship
IRI (The toughest event of the year :D )

In one year, thats the key. As students graduate and stuff changes etc, extend the "Triple Crown" over an entire team's history doesn't do the award justice. Like was said before, its so hard to get the baseball triple crown because you have to do it all in one season.

Nawaid Ladak

19-04-2006, 14:05

3 Regional Event Winner CAPTION or go UNDEAFEATED at atleast 2 regionals (Including Elimination Rounds)

Championship winner CAPTION or UNDEFEATED on DIVISION Feild (Including Eliminations)

Chairmans Winner at Championship, (Must win chairmans at regionals)

all or a combo of Website/Animation/Woody Flowers Award winner at Championship at any two regionals.

Thats just as hard as winning the triple crown in horse racing

NOW THATS A CHALLANGE!!!

pakrat

19-04-2006, 14:09

GTR CHAMPS IRI

those are the toughest competitions right now.

Chairmans
Visualization
EI or a Technical award

those are the one that guague a team's program the best IMO.

Jherbie53

19-04-2006, 15:09

Either #1 seed in division atchampionship, winning championship, and National Chairmans. Or All at one regional WFA, Chairmans, and the regional. It's hard to think up what could be call the "triple crown". I'm not sure if just three thing are enough, maybe 4, 5, or more things can be introuduced. :D

Gary Dillard

19-04-2006, 15:31

I think HOT Team nailed it with a Regional Chairman's, Championship Win and Championship Chairman's all in the same year! I doubt if this will happen again in FIRST for a long time.
Since you have to win a Regional Chairman's in order to win the Championship Chairman's, that's not really a "triple" crown, because Championship Chairman's would automatically give you 2 legs of the 3.

I would say Chairman's, Championship, and any other "unrelated" award such as animation, website, etc. to show all-around domination.

However, I still agree that "HOT team nailed it". Awesome

Bill Moore

19-04-2006, 15:35

I think HOT Team nailed it with a Regional Chairman's, Championship Win and Championship Chairman's all in the same year! I doubt if this will happen again in FIRST for a long time.
You aren't making it a "true" Triple Crown with this selection. Since the entry requirement to win the Championship Chairman's is first winning a Regional Chairman's award, you actually make it easier to accomplish this feat.

In baseball, although Batting average, RBI's and Home Runs have a tendency to trend in the same direction, it is very common for three separate individuals to lead these categories each year. You eliminate this "separateness" when you recognize the Chairman's CA winner for their Regional win as well. (It would be like tossing Home Run's out and recognizing someone for hitting .300+ average and recognizing them again for the batting average title.)

irishninja

19-04-2006, 18:42

I would still argue that WFA is a mentor achievment AND a team achievement. The team wrote the essay, and it just seems to click with regional winner and chairmans award winner. Has any team yet been able to win all three of these in the SAME year? I know my team has done it over the course of three years, but if no one has done it yet, i think its pretty hard.

If you wanted to call it a Golden Crown, then you could include Website, Autodesk, and 1st seed, along with regional winner, chairmans, and WFA.

The champion Golden Crown would be all of this on the championship level.

Billfred

19-04-2006, 18:57

I would still argue that WFA is a mentor achievment AND a team achievement. The team wrote the essay, and it just seems to click with regional winner and chairmans award winner. Has any team yet been able to win all three of these in the SAME year? I know my team has done it over the course of three years, but if no one has done it yet, i think its pretty hard.
Nobody's done it on the Championship level (HOT's come the closest thus far, with the WFA win coming about three years before their Chairman's and Championship run), but I know 25 did it at NJ this year. (Champion, Chairman's, WFA, #1 seed, undefeated. Not bad, eh?)