Championship's Atlanta 2006 - The Negative

[dangerousdave]

Please give your suggestions for improvement for next years event.

Dave

[spears312]

I know it's not really a fault of FIRST, but Heatwave had a stroke of bad luck during our visit to Atlanta. Two vehicles associated with the team were broken into at separate locations and various valuables were stolen. It's unfortunate that this sort of thing happened on what was otherwise an enjoyable competition. The only other complaint I have was the accessibility of the practice field. I know that at times there things that changed unexpectedly that we wanted to check on via robot operation, but since we had not signed up at the very beginning of the day, we were pretty much s.o.l. I don't know if adding two more practice fields or even the designation a large carpet area to work out problems is possible, but I can say it would be a nice addition. Otherwise I personally believe that the competition this year was relatively well executed.

[VEN]

1. better pairing of alliances during qualifying matches...I know you have to do your best to do good and overcome your troubles but this was just bizzare for us.
2. Announcements need to be made, I handed it the notes on what to say and they never did (unless I missed something about no announcments being made but they told me to write it down so i did)

[BuddyB309]

I know its too late for me cause im already a senior. But some kids joined first and fell in love with animation. There are no scholarships or collages there that offer animation. At least I learnd a lot about 3ds max and where to go from my freinds that i made.

[JamesBrown]

1. better pairing of alliances during qualifying matches...I know you have to do your best to do good and overcome your troubles but this was just bizzare for us.
2. Announcements need to be made, I handed it the notes on what to say and they never did (unless I missed something about no announcments being made but they told me to write it down so i did)


Can you elaborate on #1 a little bit, what part of it did you not like, what division were you in etc.

Next year, I would like to see some sort of orientation (either Wednesday night or Thursday morning, similar to the driver's meeting but in smaller group (half of the division maybe Where they could walk you through every thing like how/ when to cue and where to request parts. I don't think any of this was a problem for people who have been there before (my self included) but I was asked many questions by teams near our pit who were there for the first time.

[Morgan Gillespie]

I think what he means is each team should face and be partnered with every team in the division once. Could be what he meant, even still that is my opinion.

[K.Shaw]

maybe some more increased sercurity in the city. maybe even a "hobo round up" before the competition. some people may feel bad for them or think this is cruel but its been done. most are trouble. in one night walking from the omni to hooters over by the westin our group of 5 people were rushed by bums begging for money, offering services, selling things, one even attempted to pick pocket a kid.

[VEN]

what I'm saying is that it might not be FIRST's fault for bad alliances but the attitude of the other teams....in our last match were strategizing and all of a sudden one of the team's coach is like "ok guys, strategizing is too much for me..we're just going to shoot"...other teams claimed that they could shoot very well so we gave them all our balls and they ended up taking no shots when we could have...all of our aliances were weak and we got totally owned. I found myself protecting our side from 2 robots at a time. I'm not bashing anyone or saying it's the teams' fault, all I'm saying is that the pairings were not fair.

[Laurie Piwonski]

So sorry to hear that "various valuables were stolen." My camera is missing and until reading your email, I was hopeful that it would turn up. Does Chief Delphi have a lost and found thread for Atlanta? Maybe your items were "borrowed" too. :(

[Vexkingof716]

They should definitely figure out a way to make the pairing up fairer. i know life not fair But our team did very well at regionals and had a robot that was able to play well but had teams paired up that didn't do what they said they could, or would do. because of the pairings ant one point we had to play defense against two too three robots ant a time.

[artdutra04]

what I'm saying is that it might not be FIRST's fault for bad alliances but the attitude of the other teams....in our last match were strategizing and all of a sudden one of the team's coach is like "ok guys, strategizing is too much for me..we're just going to shoot"...other teams claimed that they could shoot very well so we gave them all our balls and they ended up taking no shots when we could have...all of our aliances were weak and we got totally owned. I found myself protecting our side from 2 robots at a time. I'm not bashing anyone or saying it's the teams' fault, all I'm saying is that the pairings were not fair.That's all the luck of the draw. Sometimes you'll be paired up with good alliances and sometimes you won't. FIRST can't/won't purposely rig "random" alliances to make sure they are "good". And neither can FIRST control the attitudes of the other alliance members.

Sometimes you win some, sometimes you lose some. That's just the way it goes. ;)

[Ellery]

My response would be the Team finale and the poor trafficing during loading period. A few of my teammates had to end up directing traffic because the bus drivers wouldn't make use of the open spaces further down and just clogg up the entrance. The team finale is definitely not what it used to be the first year in Atlanta. The food was horrible this year with just Hamburgers and hotdogs and not enough drinks available for all. For $45/ticket I am going to just recommend taking the team to a nicer place to experience some real southern cooking since they only stay for 1/2 hour anyways.

That's my only complaint, the FIRST Pack food, though convenient, were not worth the value charged either.

[KTorak]

They should definitely figure out a way to make the pairing up fairer. i know life not fair But our team did very well at regionals and had a robot that was able to play well but had teams paired up that didn't do what they said they could, or would do. because of the pairings ant one point we had to play defense against two too three robots ant a time.

Same story happens to everyone. In 2005 we were a GLR Finalist, but due to pairings in the Newton Division, we were ranked like 80th. This year we were ranked like 45th out of 60something at GLR (ok pairings) but we were ranked 7th out of 87 in Archimedes. It's just luck of the draw where ever you go.

[Daniel Brim]

Please, please, please hold the WFA ceremony after all practice matches are over.

[Chris Fultz]

These are all good comments and they are being given in the right 'tone'. Lets keep this Negative thread positive and give constructive ideas.


other teams claimed that they could shoot very well so we gave them all our balls and they ended up taking no shots when we could have . . . all I'm saying is that the pairings were not fair.

This proves the value of scouting and having good data on what teams can do. Lots of threads and posts on scouting techniques, that might be able to help you.

Although I do not know definitely, it appears the randomness of pairings includes a low number team (lots of experience), middle number team (some experience) and a higher number team (maybe a rookie). This helps keep alliances somewhat balanced but still subject to some unevenness because not all teams fit that "stereotype". I don't really know a better way to do it.

[sporno]

the alliance paring was bad. we had a good team 540 and we had a good bot we did our part in allicanes scoring an average of 31 points a round , we came in 85 and only won out last match.

[Ricky Q.]

Please, please, please hold the WFA ceremony after all practice matches are over.

Agreed, having stuff still going on took away from the ceremony.

Also, the WFA display in the Hall of Fame was not what I expected. I know better can be done, perhaps by the teams with the winners.

I'm thinking the WFA ceremony and display were a late addition, I expect better things in the years to come.

[JoeCallahan]

the alliance paring was bad. we had a good team 540 and we had a good bot we did our part in allicanes scoring an average of 31 points a round , we came in 85 and only won out last match.

I saw that happen to a lot of good bots... we scored an average 40 points per match but since our alliance partners didn't score any, we still lost and ended up with an undesirable record :-\

But I suppose that's the luck of the draw.

[sven]

1. Move the projector screens in the pit to the side, maby even have a seating/standing section roped off. Its hard enough draging a robot around, let alone avoiding other card, inspection stations, and people randomly stoping to talk at intersections while 30-40 people take up the rest of the isle watching the screens.

2. Clean up the dumpsters! Sometimes the smell was enough to make you puke going through that hall.

3. I second bum patrol. Very few of them are genuinly down on their luck. Most are addicts/lazy/mentaly unstable and not the kind of people you want around students. One came right up to us while we were taking our pics with Ford in the park area between the pits and the dome and would not leave untill our team couft up "bus fair." He even went as far as insulting our lower offerings (the few that gave money should of stod up to him then, but just wanted the guy to leave).

[Adam Shapiro]

But I suppose that's the luck of the draw.
Precisely. It's happened many, many times in the past and it will certainly happen again. It sucks to get bad pairings but there's no way to know who will turn out to be a bad partner, nor is there a fair way to selectively pair. A big part of this competition is cooperation and teamwork. If you are unable to convince a team to strategize it sucks but it's just how it goes. Everyone has bad luck sometimes, the best thing to do is hope it doesn't happen again next year.

[Koko Ed]

1. Move the projector screens in the pit to the side, maby even have a seating/standing section roped off. Its hard enough draging a robot around, let alone avoiding other card, inspection stations, and people randomly stoping to talk at intersections while 30-40 people take up the rest of the isle watching the screens.

2. Clean up the dumpsters! Sometimes the smell was enough to make you puke going through that hall.

3. I second bum patrol. Very few of them are genuinly down on their luck. Most are addicts/lazy/mentaly unstable and not the kind of people you want around students. One came right up to us while we were taking our pics with Ford in the park area between the pits and the dome and would not leave untill our team couft up "bus fair." He even went as far as insulting our lower offerings (the few that gave money should of stod up to him then, but just wanted the guy to leave).
Inform security of his presence. They will no doubt remove him from the premises.

[K.Shaw]

from what i heard 2 weeks before the event they did a "bum sweep" of atlanta for something and arrested most of the swindlers and stuff. but they obviously had to let most of them go and they drifted back into the city

[Ian Jones]

maybe some more increased sercurity in the city. maybe even a "hobo round up" before the competition. some people may feel bad for them or think this is cruel but its been done. most are trouble. in one night walking from the omni to hooters over by the westin our group of 5 people were rushed by bums begging for money, offering services, selling things, one even attempted to pick pocket a kid.

Haha, are you seriously suggesting that we throw all the homeless people in jail for the weekend just because we'll have a bunch of high school kids in town? Also, what is FIRST going to do about security throughout the entire city of atlanta?

[sporno]

i didnt like the security they had their... the rent-a -cops i had to run from the GWCC to the dome to get into the first pratice match for curie.. and none of them knew where to go. and they all told me the wrong way to enter the feild contridicting one another

[K.Shaw]

Haha, are you seriously suggesting that we throw all the homeless people in jail for the weekend just because we'll have a bunch of high school kids in town? Also, what is FIRST going to do about security throughout the entire city of atlanta?



either get rid of the hobos or increase security or both. FIRST isn't the only one responsible here. The city of Atlanta also is. Maybe have cops stationed in the main part of the city where alot of the teams were. or have a passing patrol car every so often or something.

Also more security at the venues. It seemed that anyone could walk in with just about anything they wanted. I know metal detectors wouldnt be any good, but i remember in previous years like in 2003, they checked all the bags that went into reliant stadium, and it didnt seem to create a traffic jam or anything.

I know there were some issues with the volunteers this year but there could have been more people directing traffic and more people around to answer questions and stuff.

[Elgin Clock]

Original Post Removed

So.. I'm gonna be the one who is a realist and break the cycle of all the bad rep that I'm guessing you are getting for that radical statement.

Yes, this could happen. In our perfect little FIRST community this is not something we often think about, but sporno seems to be a realist.

When you travel in a big city such as Atlanta, or NYC, or Chicago, or Boston, or any other big city on this globe things like this can happen.

Will it? Hopefully not!

Was living in fear and carrying the the knife the best (and safest) way to deal with this? Probably not.. but I applaud if not admire you for realizing that this kind of thing could happen.

All of "real life" is not a FIRST event. I know we all would like it to be and for everyone to get along with everyone else, but you can't put your guard down just because you are in a city with friends and think you are safe.

You would be foolish if you did.

The buddy system is a great thing. I'm hoping every team and team member (young and old) used this system.

I don't care if you are 16, 30, or 80.. Walking around in unfamiliar territory with a buddy can greatly reduce your chances of bad things happening.

[Not2B]

First - my comments -

Crowd control into and out of the pits. I'm sure they had a reason to close the big doors into the pits on Thursday afternoon and Saterday, but not Thursday morning and Friday. But it made for poor crowd circulation. If you are going to run it that way, make the escalators run opposide from the way they were running so you didn't have 2 steams of people trying to cross over each other. A little more crowd flow management would be good. (The students on my team are waiting for a "When I worked at Sea World..." story, because I did infact work at Sea World doing crowd contro.)

Second - my take on seeding...

Scouting makes all the difference. Lightning Robotics, 862, did not win a single match all weekend. 86 out of 86. No ones fault. We know we did well. The team was in high spirits all weekend. We even had a few teams talk to us about the finals. We didn't get picked, but we were considered by a few. In fact, I've never seen our team happier than we were in dead last place. So much so that I'll put a post up about it in a few days - it impressed me THAT much.

So don't worry too much about the seeding - Just work well with your teammates, do your personal best, and have fun - the rest will work its self out.

[NoodleKnight]

The route to the competition field from the pit made you walk past a garbage dumpster which smelled horrible. Not really a big thing, but I wished that dumpster would have been sealed off.

[Tom Bottiglieri]

Boxed lunches should be available in the pits. It was a pain trying to get food to our 10-odd pit crew and drive team members.

[Alex Cormier]

Well, i was extremely disappointed on the amount of teams that left the stands and made so much noise once the final match was over. There were more awards to be giving out like the whole reason for FIRST, the Chairmans award. The event is not OVER when the final match is over, give the teams respect who obviously worked harder then you and see who gets crowned the awards.

[Zyik]

Well, i was extremely disappointed on the amount of teams that left the stands and made so much noise once the final match was over. There were more awards to be giving out like the whole reason for FIRST, the Chairmans award. The event is not OVER when the final match is over, give the teams respect who obviously worked harder then you and see who gets crowned the awards.

Do keep in mind that some had planes to catch. We had to get up at 5:00, 2 am for us as we're a CA team, and catch a plane. We did that so we wouldn't have to leave at 6:00 pm Saturaday, but other teams weren't so lucky.

[colin340]

My response would be the Team finale and the poor trafficing during loading period. A few of my teammates had to end up directing traffic because the bus drivers wouldn't make use of the open spaces further down and just clogg up the entrance. The team finale is definitely not what it used to be the first year in Atlanta. The food was horrible this year with just Hamburgers and hotdogs and not enough drinks available for all. For $45/ticket I am going to just recommend taking the team to a nicer place to experience some real southern cooking since they only stay for 1/2 hour anyways.

That's my only complaint, the FIRST Pack food, though convenient, were not worth the value charged either.
i think that they should give up on food for the party, team 340 did not go this year but last year it was very cold and most of the team left also the food was cold last year. i think they should let some vendors come in and the teams just chill play some frisbee have a band, i'd like justs to talk more to other teams you miss out on that on the pit-crew or drive team

[Kit Gerhart]

To me, by far the biggest "negative" about the running of the '06 Championship was that the Woody Flowers award was given at a ceremony with almost nobody there, and which many people didn't even know about. The W.F. award is probably the most prestigious award that an individual person can receive in the FIRST community. The winner should be announced between the matches at the closing ceremony where nearly everyone is present.

The other thing that teams run into at Atlanta and most of the regional venues is nonsensical "crowd control." People are actually paid money just to inconvenience team members by telling them they can't go through doors to the pits, etc. Why is that?

In general, Atlanta is a good venue for the Big Event with a nice arena, nearby hotels, etc., but I still miss Epcot, despite the less-than-wonderful setup for watching matches. The atmosphere was fantastic, the food probably better for the money than at the football arenas, and there is all that fun stuff to do on your time off. Maybe FIRST has gotten too big to go back to Disney, but even after going there 7 years, I always looked forward to the Championships at Epcot for the fun atmosphere as well as the competition.

[ChuckDickerson]

Hmm, maybe I should have posted this (http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/showpost.php?p=495935&postcount=9) here instead. Maybe someone can move it for me.

[Rickertsen2]

One of my biggest complaints was that i could not understand a word of the pit announcements.

More practice fields would have been nice.

As far as the hobos go, get used to them. Its a problem of any city. If they bother you that much find security. Don't blame FIRST

[EricH]

My 2 biggest complaints:
1) The side door into the pit, with the closest escalators to the Dome, should have been open. With it closed, a 5-10 minute walk (to Archimedes) became a 10-15 minute walk through the main team entrance (C), and they didn't announce that entrance B would be open for teams.

2)They ran late--again. Qual matches were supposed to start at 9:30. The opening ceremony didn't end until like 9:45. The closing ceremony didn't end until 7:00 for the second year in a row. Maybe FIRST should rewrite the schedule so it shows what will really happen, not what is supposed to happen, and/or put a hard and fast cap on speech lengths. (I liked how Dean didn't give a speech other than an introduction and the homework--saved a lot of time.)

[Freddy Schurr]

1. More security is needed around downtown Atlanta when walking back to hotels or going to restaurants.

2. More practice fields, 2 for each division and each field has 40 teams to practice on the field.

3. More Guest Speaker that we can related too. Like the Myth Busters or Bill Nye or someone.

4. Dean, Woodie and Dave and others should have like a meet and greet and have a opportunity to sign autographs and take pictures.

5. A lot of walking. It was a pain for the entire competition.

[ahirsch2589]

the homeless were a problem

[sebas2mil]

Maybe for next year FIRST should figure out how they are going to block Einstein off on saturday before people try to sit down and 5 minutes before the matches they get kicked off and have to go sit in a really far away place

[GaryVoshol]

2)They ran late--again. Qual matches were supposed to start at 9:30. The opening ceremony didn't end until like 9:45. The closing ceremony didn't end until 7:00 for the second year in a row. Maybe FIRST should rewrite the schedule so it shows what will really happen, not what is supposed to happen, and/or put a hard and fast cap on speech lengths. (I liked how Dean didn't give a speech other than an introduction and the homework--saved a lot of time.)
I can address the late start. Secretary Guiterrez was added as a speaker at the last minute, as was the Mayor (although her speech was short). FLL schedules were reworked to take care of the late start; they had a coaches meeting Thurs eve where the new schedules were distributed. It would have been a nightmare to try to get new FRC schedules out to all teams.

I agree that far too little time is allocated for divisional finals and Einstein. That only makes the food at the wrap party colder.

I'd like to see the party made an option with the lodging. If reservations were taken through THS all along, they still would know how many people would attend. In fact, they'd probably have a better estimate, as currently they don't know how many will be skipping the party and only have tickets because they are forced to get them. I stayed in the hotel with the team, but couldn't have cared less about the party. Although the fireworks were good.

[Logan.Lockhart]

maybe some more increased sercurity in the city. maybe even a "hobo round up" before the competition. some people may feel bad for them or think this is cruel but its been done. most are trouble. in one night walking from the omni to hooters over by the westin our group of 5 people were rushed by bums begging for money, offering services, selling things, one even attempted to pick pocket a kid.

I agree with you. We got off the Airplane, and the first thing that happened - we were being asked for money. The city to me seems to be dark and not inviting to people. The Marta was really dirty everytime we rode it and I just didn't feel safe in the city. Security would be great, or what about moving it from Altlanta to somewhere on the West Coast so those team don't have to travel far.

[Adam Shapiro]

what about moving it from Altlanta to somewhere on the West Coast so those team don't have to travel far.
You could give the same argument for having it on the East Coast: what about the teams in the East? It's hard to find a location suitable for the number of teams that attend the championship each year that is equidistant from the West and East.

[Richard Wallace]

It's hard to find a location suitable for the number of teams that attend the championship each year that is equidistant from the West and East.How about St. Louis or Chicago? And Houston was nice back in 2003.

[Adam Shapiro]

How about St. Louis or Chicago?
Those could certainly work. I'm sure there are lots of places that would be great to hold it.
And Houston was nice back in 2003.
Personally I didn't really like Houston that much. There didn't seem to be too much to do (aside from Six Flags which got a bit old after a while). Not to mention the incredible walks with the robot to get between the fields and the pit. Bringing the robots up those ramps was terribly taxing, especially with everyone rushing back and forth. Granted the distance in Atlanta isn't entirely optimal (especially the walking distance to the far fields for spectators), but the walking in Houston was abysmal, for both robots and spectators. Though the seating wasn't as great as in a stadium, the field/pit setup in Orlando was, in my opinion, the best of the three.

[Madison]

I merged two threads discussing this topic into a single thread, so if things appear odd, that's probably why.

[Richard Wallace]

I merged two threads discussing this topic into a single thread, so if things appear odd, that's probably why.I had assumed one thread was about the Championship and the other about the season as a whole.

[Madison]

I had assumed one thread was about the Championship and the other about the season as a whole.

You're right and I missed the distinction, but it's been pointed out to me.

Splitting the threads is a bit more time consuming than merging them, but I'll go through and put things right -- just as soon as I get out of the shower :)

[petek]

Splitting the threads is a bit more time consuming than merging them, but I'll go through and put things right -- just as soon as I get out of the shower :)So, does that mean you posted that from the shower? :ahh:

[Richard Wallace]

So, does that mean you posted that from the shower? :ahh:Her little green light is out, so I think she's ignoring us now.

[JaneYoung]

Her little green light is out, so I think she's ignoring us now.


Maybe it got fogged up. :D

[AmayaSaria]

My suggestion? I had a great time at Nationals...but it was my first year there so....I don't think there was any, so maybe we could have maps for next year? And another thing, us poor poor mascots! We didn't have ANYWHERE to dance and have fun! We danced on the staircase (in Archimedes) and blocked it up a lot. Also, we had no room to dance to the cotton eyed joe, cha cha slide, and songs like that. Those are what I suggest, if its possible. I know there may not be a lot of room for the mascots, but we'd be really happy if we had our own dancing area! :)

Other than that, my first time at nationals was a blast.

[StephLee]

The only real complaint I have was the smell of the trash in the hallway to the arena floor; it got a bit intense if you got stuck in a traffic jam.

[Kims Robot]

1. WFA... I have to agree with all of the people that mentioned the WFA award. I dont think many people knew it was going to be then, and it just seemed sad that our team was sitting there scouting and cheering for our field while the WFA was being awarded... It would be nice to at least wait until the matches were over. Plus another addition that would be cool would be if they could take a picture from every WFA mentor and put it up on the screen when they run the names. They have them from the FIRST Awards page submissions, so it shouldnt be too hard to make that addition.

2. Organization... for some reason this year just seemed a lot more chaotic than last year... we didnt know when our awards students had to be out, the alliance selection the same, the classes changed rooms and times/got cancelled throwing off our team schedule (yes we matrixed everyone into scouting and other jobs!), and our driveteam constantly felt more rushed than last year (though thursday & friday actually happening on time was nice!). Maybe give teams a solid schedule at the beginning, and hand out all 350+ copies if there are any changes.

3. Pit announcements... we couldnt really hear them. I was thinking maybe they could have a board or monitor in each divisions pits to place the announcements that were just made so teams can recheck.

4. Pit height... the rule FIRST gave out was that pits "SHOULD" not be taller than 10 feet. Should is not a binding agreement. We got yelled at several times by FIRST staff to change it... when we were really 10'6" (plus there were additional loopholes if you had signs supported by the structure but I will leave it at this). I saw many displays that were MUCH taller, and MUCH more unsafe than ours. There should either be a change to the rule to say "shall" or "must" or be a better way to check the safety of it (we verified that ours was incredibly safe when we first built it). We couldnt find another stepladder to safely change/modify it, and since our pit is the first thing we put up, it was impossibly for us to safely change it without hurting someone, or destroying our workspace.

5. Wrap party food... I still love that FIRST has a wrap party where teams go to hang out with eachother, but the quality has declined. I like the suggestion of just having a ton of different carnival type vendors set up and sell their own foods. They make profit and FIRST doesnt have to pay for it, and it is MUCH less likely to get cold!!

6. Alliance Selections... This goes for all the regionals and every event as well. It would be WONDERFUL if FIRST would do it after lunch... it would allow the scouters to finalize their data and actually get it to the person going on the field. We had to pass a piece of paper over the large concrete barrier to one of our driveteam since they were on the field right before selections. I think teams have the fast strategizing down, because you have to do it in between matches... it would be nice to give less strategy time and more alliance selection time IMO.

7. Food in the pits... I get the no food in the pits, but they do at least need to allow water bottles. Our students and mentors were constantly dehydtrated because of course the robot & team come before getting food or water. We finally stashed a bunch in the back of the pit but felt like hoodlems for "breaking" the rule.

[EricH]

I don't think there was any, so maybe we could have maps for next year? There were maps. They were on the FIRST site somewhere, I think in the Championships section.

Food in the pits... I get the no food in the pits, but they do at least need to allow water bottles. Our students and mentors were constantly dehydtrated because of course the robot & team come before getting food or water. We finally stashed a bunch in the back of the pit but felt like hoodlems for "breaking" the rule.There were drinking fountains, and I don't think anyone objects to bottled water. (At AZ, I was safety captain for my team, and bottled water was explicitly allowed by the safety people.)

[Andrew Y.]

i didnt not ahve a clue about the bottledwater rule. Does it really exist?

if it does...i broke it about 300 times..each day. :ahh: :ahh:


But i do agree taht water should be allowed

[ScottM]

First - my comments -

Crowd control into and out of the pits. I'm sure they had a reason to close the big doors into the pits on Thursday afternoon and Saterday, but not Thursday morning and Friday. But it made for poor crowd circulation. If you are going to run it that way, make the escalators run opposide from the way they were running so you didn't have 2 steams of people trying to cross over each other. A little more crowd flow management would be good. (The students on my team are waiting for a "When I worked at Sea World..." story, because I did infact work at Sea World doing crowd control.)



Seems like every year the management does something that's completely inexplicable, at least to me. This year it was this situation where they shut the big doors and forced everyone to into the two small doors.

Last year it was forcing everyone to go through the turnstiles when entering into the stadium for a free event.

[artdutra04]

Let me start off with the fact that the Championships are not what they used to be. Gone are the days of just robot matches dominating at the Championships. We now have conferences, presentations, the FIRST LEGO League, and FIRST Vex Challenge, etc. and the list goes on and on. The only problem is when trying to cram everything into three days, some events overlap and you have to decide on which to attend.

I wish I could have over to the Vex more often, but I was almost always involved with my FRC team. I was asked by several prominate FIRSTers to help host a conference about Vex in Atlanta. Again, I had to decline the offer because I would have been to busy with being the operator for my FRC team.

I understand that you only have four years in your FIRST career that you can be one of the drivers, so right now that is where the majority of my time is being spent. But I felt almost jipped that there were so much awesome things to do at the Championships and people to hang out with, but I was always forced to choose among the better of the many exciting activities.

So, here's where I'd love to see the Championships extended at least one additional day to become a four-day event starting on Wednesday morning. Start the FLL, FVC, and conferences on Wednesday, and have them continue into Thursday. That way, people can sit back and enjoy the other FIRST competitions without having to sacrifice them for their FRC team.

FIRST is growing - and so should the Championship Event. :D

[santosh]

I agree, it was VERY difficult to hear people giving announcements in the pits.

[Joe Matt]

7. Food in the pits... I get the no food in the pits, but they do at least need to allow water bottles. Our students and mentors were constantly dehydtrated because of course the robot & team come before getting food or water. We finally stashed a bunch in the back of the pit but felt like hoodlems for "breaking" the rule.

Maybe it was just me, but I very openly brought a Papa John's pizza into the pits, in full view and sight of EVERYONE. I know there have been general rules, but it didn't seem that any inforcement happened. I agree totally with the idea of allowing small amounts of food and water in the pits, especially if bought from the vendors at the GWCC and Georgia Dome.

I agree also with the shortness of the competition, there were lots to do and little time. It seems like I could never hang with friends unless I missed something important! I could only meet Conor, Daniel, Genia, and Krass during the finals on Galileo! Oh well.

[dhitchco]

Hmmmm...a thread about the "negatives" of the 2006 championship.

In the corporate world, we call them "opportunities" or "areas for improvement".

I agree with all the comments I have read here and there are ALWAYS new opportunities. It's vital that and issue you bring up also have a proposed solution...don't simply gripe.

Kim O'Toole's good summary surprised me in one respect about the judges and our "pit height" since I'm the one who led the student team in designing and building a pit to show-off all our accomplishments. It was exactly 10' square and 9' tall except for a small sign above that.....So, yes, the rule book needs to be continually improved (but it's thick-enough as it is) to use words like "shall" or "must".

*** Our pit was INTENTIONALLY that tall since a 60" robot sitting on top of a 30" OSHA-safe-height work cart required that much clearance under the top of the pit.....Think about it FIRST........

Overall, FIRST needs to start to look at the world championship in the SAME WAY that las vegas looks at a major trade show! There are som many events now going on each year at the April championship. Better up-front calendar of events onthe web site will be critical including a "build-your-own-agenda" section.

I also agree that more "visual" signage and video displays are better than voice announcements. The in-house food rule needs to be relaxed in the pits and each team's safety officer needs to take-on the responsibility for cleaning-up spills, etc.

I'd like to see some better student-created ideas for a "mosh pit" for dancing etc that doesn't clog-up the aisles and doesn't create traffic jams for the on-floor robot traffic. I can't come up with any good ones for the Georgia Dome.

The traffic flow in the pit (GWCC hall C) is always tricky, and overhead signage should be more "in-your-face" about safety glasses, especially by lego league visitors etc. Or...maybe a "no-work-time-out" set of periods each day for visitors?

Maybe all robot carts should be required to have flashing lights while in motion to warn pedestrians? We need to all think and observe what goes on in a Home Depot store when they're using the forklift trucks and copy those good safety practices.

[KathieK]

2. Organization... the classes changed rooms and times/got cancelled throwing off our team schedule Were these the conferense sesisons that you are speaking about? I wasn't aware that any had changed.

3. Pit announcements... we couldnt really hear them. I was thinking maybe they could have a board or monitor in each divisions pits to place the announcements that were just made so teams can recheck.Not only were they unintelligible and WAY too loud, the Vex Pit Admin was admonished for using our microphone to make an announcement to our teams- apparently we were not allowed to do so unless it was an emergency! :mad:


7. Food in the pits... I get the no food in the pits, but they do at least need to allow water bottles. Our students and mentors were constantly dehydtrated because of course the robot & team come before getting food or water. We finally stashed a bunch in the back of the pit but felt like hoodlems for "breaking" the rule.http://www2.usfirst.org/2006comp/Manual/7-At_the_Events_Rev_C.pdf Section 7.16 Team checklist includes water cooler/cups and water bottles. You could bring them to any event.

[ahecht]

My big two:


Better escalator management. When all the teams were leaving the pits at 8pm thursday, on all the sets of three escalators, two were going down and one was going up. This created a huge bottleneck on the one up escalator while no one was using the two down ones.
Better handling of pit closing. I understand that the volunteers have to be forceful to get teams out of the pit, but seeing some of the volunteers actually screaming at teams just reeked of ungracious amateurism. I even saw one volunteer Friday yell "get the hell out" to a team. I'm sure this was just coming from a small minority of the volunteers (a vast majority of whom were great), but this should be address at the volunteer briefings.

[Richard Wallace]

Better handling of pit closing. I understand that the volunteers have to be forceful to get teams out of the pit, but seeing some of the volunteers actually screaming at teams just reeked of ungracious amateurism. I even saw one volunteer Friday yell "get the hell out" to a team. I'm sure this was just coming from a small minority of the volunteers (a vast majority of whom were great), but this should be address at the volunteer briefings.
I won't defend volunteers who scream at teams, but I can certainly understand the screamer's frustration. The days get very long for volunteers in the pits. One particularly under-appreciated job is managing time-slots on the practice fields.

Overstaying your practice time or continuing to work on your robot when the pits have officially closed are both (IMO) akin to working on your robot after ship date outside of a fix-it window, making parts in your hotel room, or entering the pits early. The only motivation for doing these things is to gain an unfair competitive advantage over other teams that don't -- so all are forms of cheating.

[Kims Robot]

Were these the conferense sesisons that you are speaking about? I wasn't aware that any had changed.
My team went to several of the conferences on thursday, and all seemed to run well once we got the flow of things (you should have seen our giant 11x17 matrix we had to use to determine who was supposed to be where when!), but on Friday coming out of the pits to the stands I was greeted by a bunch of very confused teammembers who said the rooms or the conferences got changed, they didnt know where to go, etc. Several of the afternoon Vex rooms got cancelled, forcing some of our members to all try to cram into one or two of them. The Chairmans one got moved to a different timeslot causing me to miss it, etc. I cant say I directly saw the new schedule, or what the conflict was, but that is what my teammembers said. I had to assume since we got it all right on thursday, that the friday issues were due to a change like they said.


http://www2.usfirst.org/2006comp/Manual/7-At_the_Events_Rev_C.pdf Section 7.16 Team checklist includes water cooler/cups and water bottles. You could bring them to any event.

I guess we read this wrong:
You cannot bring food on site at all. Not even as a promotion.
Do not provide teams with candy, water, fruit, soft drinks, etc. This is to
promote good will and the spirit of partnership with the venues
I assumed that the water bottles were empty ones, and still wouldnt be allowed in the pits. The regionals seemed to be more strict about ingraining it in our heads though. And the giant signs that always say no food or drinks in the pits also made us think that.

[KTorak]

Maybe all robot carts should be required to have flashing lights while in motion to warn pedestrians? We need to all think and observe what goes on in a Home Depot store when they're using the forklift trucks and copy those good safety practices.

I saw a team that had a lightbar on their cart..definitely cool. I'm gonna throw one of those flashing amber lights on our cart next year I think to warn people...maybe even a buzzer or something. Some people don't seem to understand "Excuse us, robot coming through" very easily :( Our pit was nice, but it was right by the projector screens so there were about 100 people always standing there :-/

As for the escalators, yes they should be fixed to atleast 2 of the 3, if not all 3 exiting (those who wish to go down can use the elevators).

[Lil' Lavery]

6. Alliance Selections... This goes for all the regionals and every event as well. It would be WONDERFUL if FIRST would do it after lunch... it would allow the scouters to finalize their data and actually get it to the person going on the field. We had to pass a piece of paper over the large concrete barrier to one of our driveteam since they were on the field right before selections. I think teams have the fast strategizing down, because you have to do it in between matches... it would be nice to give less strategy time and more alliance selection time IMO.
Although I agree, that there is too little time to finalize lists, and sell your team after the matches conclude saturday, I'd still rather have strategy time than selection time. Having worked both as a scout and a coach at official FIRST events, and scout, coach, base driver, human player, and arm operator at off-seasons, I can guarantee you that strategy time is more important than selection time.
Each and every team has different scouting notes on the other teams, and having strategy time gives you time to compare notes, especially regarding what strategic trends your upcoming opponents like to use.

[sporno]

So.. I'm gonna be the one who is a realist and break the cycle of all the bad rep that I'm guessing you are getting for that radical statement.

Yes, this could happen. In our perfect little FIRST community this is not something we often think about, but sporno seems to be a realist.

When you travel in a big city such as Atlanta, or NYC, or Chicago, or Boston, or any other big city on this globe things like this can happen.

Will it? Hopefully not!

Was living in fear and carrying the the knife the best (and safest) way to deal with this? Probably not.. but I applaud if not admire you for realizing that this kind of thing could happen.

All of "real life" is not a FIRST event. I know we all would like it to be and for everyone to get along with everyone else, but you can't put your guard down just because you are in a city with friends and think you are safe.

You would be foolish if you did.

The buddy system is a great thing. I'm hoping every team and team member (young and old) used this system.

I don't care if you are 16, 30, or 80.. Walking around in unfamiliar territory with a buddy can greatly reduce your chances of bad things happening.
well no it was a multi tool i used in the pits , it just has a blade on it.. and as nice as they may be im not taking my chances

[JamesBrown]

OK first of all I enjoyed every thing about championships, my only regret is not being able to attend opening ceremonies either day, I suppose that comes with being on the Pit Crew and Drive team.

While I understand many teams frustrations with the 10 foot pit rule I believe the best solution may be to do something like team ** did, they have columns (about 7 or 8 ft tall) that allow them to display anything they want and not run into problems of having a low ceiling. I would be tempted to guess that the 10 ft rule was at least suggested by FIRSTs insurance company as well as the UL safety advisor's.

The thing that is really striking a nerve in this thread is the comments about the homeless. I will definitely not give out bad rep because of comments about it but I would like to say that I am offended.

I have spent nearly all of my life in or around good size cities (Boston and Providence) and have seen my fair share of homeless people. I understand that there are thousands of people who have grown up in smaller towns and cities and haven't grown accustomed to such things. I must say that many of the post on this topic have been very narrow minded. A hobo round up as one person called it would not only be ridiculous but illegal and unconstitutional, to suggest such a thing in my eyes demonstrates extreme narrow mindedness, something that I believe FIRST is trying to do away with. These people maybe homeless but they all live in Atlanta, we are visiting where they live and you need to respect that. If a person asks you for money simply say sorry I can't help you and continue walking, 99% of the time they will not bother you any more. In this case they have caused you no more in convenience that if I had asked you for the time. I would venture to guess that the majority of people on this forum would be more than willing to stop and take a picture for members of another team. This takes more time and is more of an inconvenience than simply telling a homeless person you can't give them any thing.

To take this one step further them asking you for money is no different than when some one like you stops someone like Dean or Woody or any of your favorite celebrities and asking for an autograph. (OR asking Andy for a t-shirt) these people have something you want and you have something other people want. In the future try to be open minded and don't feel superior to others until you know there story, they are not hurting you, why would any one care to suggest hurting or hindering them.

(note any negative perspective one this please take it up in my pm box rather than this thread or my rep, I would be more than happy to discuss my opinions on anything with any one.)

James

[KTorak]

I have to agree. Must people have never been exposed to life in a big city and had to deal with things such as homeless citizens asking for money. If they bug you that much, talk with asecurity or a police officer, it's not that hard to find an Atlanta Police Officer in the area of the dome...I walked past one every block when I was outside at night.

[Will Hanashiro]

I wish the playing fields were pushed back away from the stands a little bit. I found it hard to see the playing field at times, especially when teams in front of us stood up.

[Kims Robot]

OHHH and I almost forgot my number one pet peeve!! While I love that they got some great speakers, some big important people that will get FIRST recognized, I was absolutely embarrassed at ALL of the people that kept saying "lets make this the greatest nation!" I was HORRIFIED!! This is an international competition... its not NATIONALS anymore... I was thoroughly embarrassed to be from the US with them saying things like that in front of an international audience... they even had all of the flags up there to remind everyone! What about Canada, Brazil, Israel, Germany, etc??? The list goes on!!! Shouldn't we be promoting cooperation over US Supremacy?!?! Do they not tell the speakers this is an international audience? Do they not know countries from all around the world can be watching this??? SOMEONE Please fix this!! Year after Year this happens, and every year it gets more prominent. If they want to do a different international competition do that... but dint invite all of these teams to travel thousands of miles to hear the US ROCKS speeches!!

*gets off soapbox*

I thought it was my fault that my team kept calling it Nationals... with them being a rookie team, and me having been in it since 96, I figured I had rubbed off on them, but now I realize that even the event organizers, people on CD, no-one (not just me) can get it right... lets give these other countries the respect and recognition that they deserve.

[Ben Piecuch]

I was especially amused by the "special" MARTA deal the FIRST teams received. A 5-day, Wednesday through Sunday pass cost $13 bucks, while the standard MARTA 7-day (Monday through Sunday) pass ALSO cost $13 bucks! One great deal there. I seem to remember the passes costing $10 last year.

BEN

[Mark Pierce]

I hate to bump up a negative thread, but I finally have time to comment. I agree with most of the comments here, but I still had a great time and think they fixed a lot of things from last year. I've only got two issues that haven't been mentioned.

The pits should be available, at least for storage, until after the closing ceremonies. We had a fair amount of stuff to go on the bus, but were told that the pits had to be empty at 4:00 or something. Of course, this is impossible for teams competing, and a real concern for others.

I like the store selling FIRST items, but it was incredibly small. It was crowded every time I visited, and absolutely packed on Saturday afternoon. More space and staff would have helped this venture.

[Jeff Waegelin]

The pits should be available, at least for storage, until after the closing ceremonies. We had a fair amount of stuff to go on the bus, but were told that the pits had to be empty at 4:00 or something. Of course, this is impossible for teams competing, and a real concern for others.


We left our stuff in the pits until after the closing cermonies, as did a few other teams that I saw. They had started tearing down the pit dividers and the practice fields, which I would imagine is why they told you to be out by 4:00. That being said, they never gave us trouble for just leaving our stuff there.

[Mark Pierce]

they never gave us trouble for just leaving our stuff there. After we had hauled our stuff out where they first told us, they relented and recommended that we return it to the pits. I just think the schedule and plans should be clear up front.

[Jaime65]

I second that

[LindsayKnowlton]

3. More Guest Speaker that we can related too. Like the Myth Busters or Bill Nye or someone.

Mythbusters or Bill Nye as a guest speaker would be AMAZING. Omg.


4. Dean, Woodie and Dave and others should have like a meet and greet and have a opportunity to sign autographs and take pictures.

Hehe, actually, at the afterparty, me and my friends met with Dave and Woodie (they signed my safety goggles; I remember Dean saying "They aren't going to be as safe anymore with writing on them." haha :P And we got the whole team in a picture with Woodie. It was sweet.) So I guess what I'm trying to say is that the afterparty WAS kind of a meet-and-greet in itself. :)


We didn't have ANYWHERE to dance and have fun! We danced on the staircase (in Archimedes) and blocked it up a lot. Also, we had no room to dance to the cotton eyed joe, cha cha slide, and songs like that. Those are what I suggest, if its possible. I know there may not be a lot of room for the mascots, but we'd be really happy if we had our own dancing area! :)

Totally agree. We really need dancing space. There's not enough room in the stands at all! :P

As with the homeless people issue, myself and the most of team members seemed not to see or be approached by any homeless people. I guess it's where we were in Atlanta at a particular time... it's hard to deal with those people and they are going through tough times, but you can't let them harrass you, you know?

[sporno]

actually grant imahara from mythbusters i know used to mentor a robotics team in california

[Danny Diaz]

Mythbusters or Bill Nye as a guest speaker would be AMAZING. Omg.

Bill Nye spoke at the Texas BEST Robotics Competition at A&M University in College Park, Texas, in 2004. He was awesome when he was doing his introductions and when he was dealing with hecklers in the crowd, but when he got to his "assigned speech topic" the magic was definitely gone. By the end of his speech I would estimate that more than 50% of the crowd was asleep. Of course, the presentation was at 8:00pm, everyone had just eaten, we'd all had a full day of competition, and it was quite warm in the auditorium, so I cannot put the entire blame on Bill Nye. However, it WAS the best nap I'd ever had in stadium-style seats. :p

-Danny

[razor95kds]

actually grant imahara from mythbusters i know used to mentor a robotics team in california

he mentors richmond robotics. i belive they are team 841, bit im not positive,

[Kitsune~841]

yeah he still does teach the biomechs #841 in richmond California he was with us on Thursday and Saturday of the Davis regional's which was a miracle... (mythbusters had claim to him until sat).... we have asked him and many other teams have also asked him to see if he or any other mythbuster could take a star role of the comp or at least give an intro with their past in battlebots... so far it wont happen too soon i think they are swamped with myths and dead lines cuz grant does have a tight schedule when he is mentoring us the only days garanteed and even then not always are Saturdays but all in all he is dedicated in mentoring and advancing robotics through teaching and problem solving