Attn: Present & Future College Students, Think carefully before you mentor [Archive]

D.J. Fluck

30-04-2006, 23:28

Now that the championships have past, I decided I want to share a story with everyone. The school years are winding down, graduating high school students are pumped up from their nationals experience are getting ready to go to college. First thought in their minds (most of the time) is that they want to listen to Dean and go get a team started at their college or university or joining one that is currently already in place.

Just a fair warning from someone who went through this first hand. Although it is very tempting, think carefully before you join. Mentoring is a serious commitment as you know. Many of your mentors spend hours and hours during the week sharing their knowledge with you. Jumping in that role right away could be overwhelming especially with college.

If you haven't figured it out yet, you soon will, college isn't high school. There are so many more factors involved. Most students live on their own, you have more freedom, the classes are more demanding, you have to know how to study. Temptations are there that weren't when you were in high school. With all this in mind, it might be a good idea to not be involved with a team your freshman year of college.

Why am I wasting my time making this point? Because, I am a victim of this. After a semester of mentoring, I ended up on Academic Probation and having to retake 2 classes that I took during the spring semester because I let mentoring take priority over class. I have spoken to many fellow college students who have ended up in a similar situation after mentoring.

Guess what? As much as you want it to be, it isn't. Getting that degree is the reason for going to college. Failing out of school because you mentored isn't really a good reason. In fact, there aren't many good reasons for failing out of school.

Don't get me wrong, there are many college mentors out there that can handle the workload. In fact, a friend of mine graduated from Purdue and took 21 credit hours one semester in addition to mentoring and still finished the semester with a better than 3.0 GPA. Some people can handle mentoring and class. I won't deny that.

So now that you've spent time reading and thinking about this, you yourself need to spend the time from when you finish reading this until the fall starts and teams have callout meetings thinking, "Am I ready to commit to something so time consuming? Do I have the work ethic, time management skills, and study skills to be able to handle this?"

If you are 110% sure you think you can handle mentoring and school, more power to you. If you have any doubt in your mind, take a year off. Volunteer at a local regional or championships, go to an off season event, and keep in contact with the numerous friends that you make through this organization. Mentoring is not worth failing out of college. As Ken Patton of the Huskie Brigade once told me, "Robotics will still be here after college. Just make sure you get that degree." Those words didn't mean much to me right away, but a few months down the road, they became very important to me and I am still living by them. My bad academic experience during my year of mentoring is most of the reason for my burnout and my hiatus from FIRST. Once I get that degree, so many options open up, and it will be a much easier way to transition myself back into FIRST.

Think about what I said. It could make a difference.

D.J. Fluck
Purdue University, Class of 2008

Tetraman

30-04-2006, 23:37

As a College mentor, I agree with this.

It is not wise for the baker to starve himself.

Remember that if you do provide your help to a team like I did, you are provideing what you can, if you provide too much, you will lose track of your future and eventually you will slide in your studies. I know too that Robotics has occationaly slid my grades a bit. So instead of attending robotics, I stayed and did my work and was an inseration for the students to make sure that they do their work, rather than spend all their time on the robot.

A college mentor's greatest gift for a team is the willingness to continue education and to show that there is a future for them all.

Billfred

30-04-2006, 23:50

This is very important stuff--until FIRST opens its own college, you need to keep your grades up. (It'll open up far more opportunities.)

I'm lucky to be in a college with a reasonably flexible timeline. With some intelligent scheduling, I was able to take some of the harder classes in the fall of this year, while holding on to one or two easy courses for the spring, which helps take the load off at times. Don't let it completely rule your scheduling, but be smart if your college allows it. You will not want to be doing work for five hardcore, lots-of-small-assignments courses in the middle of build season.

That said, know yourself and know what's important. You have the rest of your days to help with FIRST--but only one relatively easy crack at college. (The rest, from what I read, are far more costly.)

sanddrag

30-04-2006, 23:51

For me, mentoring and my first year of college went great. I found the college clubs kind of dumb and thought FIRST was way better so I stuck with it and it was fun. And I didn't have any problem keeping my GPA high enough to get into an honor society. For my second year of college (this year) FIRST was a little more demanding and my school slid a little bit (I'll have to repeat diff eq.) but I believe I am still elegible for another (junior level) honor society. To me, school is kind of boring so sticking with FIRST was a good way to keep me from being bored. I think I'll stick with FIRST, however my involvment may become more limited (and it somewhat has already).

Recently, I have taken on the role of Construction Co-Chair and Webmaster for the Cal Poly Pomona Rose Float project so I'm quite busy in that.

For me, I can't spend my life listening to professors babble through equations full of greek letters then go home and struggle through books full of stuff that the professor was too lazy to mention. I can take it but I can't drown myself in it. There's got to be more for me. I've got to just go out and build something every once in a while. That's why I did and will continue to stick with FIRST. It is a nice break from boredom.

I will say this though: I have yet to find any extracurricular as good as or better than FIRST.

tiffany34990

01-05-2006, 02:50

I agree whole heartily with everyone here. High school is different than college on many levels as DJ already stated. It has been an interesting first year in college for me. I've had a lot of ups and downs and wasn't able to really mentor a team like I wanted to. And I don't believe I will while I'm at USF. I'm involved in a lot of other activities and I'm the type of person that can't handle a million things and keep up with school. As usual for me I go way beyond that I can handle so FIRST and mentoring has to be put in the back burner. I miss it a lot, especially this year my first Championship event I missed since I've been in FIRST. I will though be trying to volunteer at some Regional Events and still work with the RCU. Other than that, I have to tear away from FIRST just to keep up my grades. FIRST has taught me a lot over the years. I'm continually amazed to met new people and see how FIRST has impacted so many lives. We have heroes that nobody understands. My friends laughed this past weekend when I told them to be quiet so I could watch a match and just said i was a nerd. And may be one but I'm proud of it. I'm sure that everyone won't forget what FIRST has brought them, it is simply hard to forget. But don't forget about grades because sadly they are important.

DCA Fan

01-05-2006, 04:00

I agree with everyone. I saw my own academic level drop during the winter quarter because of robotics, and had to take time off the team. Academics always comes first, and don't try to take as much of a leading role in the team as you did in high school, it will only come back to haunt you later.

Beth Sweet

01-05-2006, 09:02

I'm going to make this short and sweet. I love my team. I love my students. I love my mentors. But there is one reason that I always make Dean's List fall semester and not spring. I'll let you take that guess...

Al Skierkiewicz

01-05-2006, 09:34

DJ et al,
I wholeheartedly agree. Your priority list should be school first, family and church second, anything else (including robots) third. I, as a mentor, would rather get an email from you saying "Hi, I am doing well in school" then to see you face to face, volunteering at a FIRST event and tell me you dropped out because robots were taking you away from school. You can come back stronger as a graduate mentor than a struggling student.
Academic probation is something you can come back from. It needs some hard work and dedication to detail, but you are already trained for that. Use the skills you have learned and get the job done! I can say "See you in four or five years" and be happy and sad at the same time. DJ, don't make me come down there!

Mikell Taylor

01-05-2006, 09:52

I agree that it can be difficult to balance mentorship with academics, and I do agree that academics should come first. It's a good idea, wherever you go, to take the first semester (or first year) to figure out your schedule and what you can handle before you get too involved in *anything* -- including clubs, sports, and FIRST.

However, that said, mentoring as a college student can be really rewarding. In engineering in particular, it gives you a lot of perspective. Engineering can sometimes be overly theory-based and it's easy to lose sight of what it truly is -- design, teamwork, fabrication, testing, all the fun stuff that FIRST taught us about. And it's incredibly valuable to be on the "teaching" side of the equation where you must truly understand something in order to explain it to someone else.

I go to an extremely challenging college where working hours are pretty much any time Outlook can send a meeting request for both students and professors and where committees, clubs, and classes easily eat up your time. But I (and other students) have made time for things like FIRST. It does require the sacrifice of some things (like social life, or like getting an A instead of a B+ on something), but it is doable without failing out -- because I have figured out my limits

Our group has found it particularly helpful to be working with a team with a very involved high school teacher (who can take care of the logistics of workspace, funding from the school, registration, and keeping the kids coming) and which, because it's an inner city school, *only* has open hours from 2-4 in the afternoon and, when we can argue it, some weekends. That means no all-nighters, no practically living in our lab, and that we all have to take a step back and remember that we have other things to do. Does it mean we can be one of the hardcore teams? No. But it doesn't mean that both the students and the mentors aren't learning, building important relationships, finding inspiration in engineering and science, and still fulfilling the FIRST vision.

You certainly can't have everything. You can, however, still have a valuable FIRST experience, and provide one for high school students in need of a little push toward the awesomeness of engineering.

<plug for Boston FIRST Regional> And if all else fails, volunteer at competition. :) That's a really important job, too, and it makes planning committees happy! </plug>

Richard Wallace

01-05-2006, 10:00

D.J. Fluck
Purdue University, Class of 2008Thanks for this post, DJ. Everyone in FIRST respects your experience as a TecknoKat. You'll be welcome on any team, any time.

But there's a whole 'nother level of respect that you'll earn when you get that Purdue degree. FIRSTers know that competitive robotics, especially as practiced by 45, is demanding -- but nearly everyone knows that Purdue graduates can think under pressure, solve tough problems, and complete difficult assignments.

This also applies to many other highly regarded colleges and universities, too many to mention them all here. (My degrees are from Georgia Tech.) All you other college students plug the name of your future alma mater into the above.

Jason Kixmiller

01-05-2006, 10:06

TheLostRenegade

01-05-2006, 11:39

I know exactly what you mean...

I came into college this year thinking that I had what it takes to do very well and school and still make a major commitment to the robotics team. I spent loads of time working with the team building the robot and going on trips. Now that the season is over, I find myself rushing to prepare for finals with just one week left in the school year.

Well, at least I can say that I am still passing my classes (barely). I do find myself saying 'Well, if i hadn't spent that all nighter with the team, I probably would have finished my homework.' or 'Maybe I should have studied more for my organic chemistry midterm instead of spending time helping students build the robot,' but despite those decisions, I am still barely making it by.

At this point, there isnt much I can do about my low GPA, but I can cosign to what all the others are saying in this thread...Think and plan before you commit

Martinez

01-05-2006, 11:46

Know your limits and stick by them. Absolutely agree that your study is most important so that extra activies should not get in the way of that. There are alot of temptations in college and a robotics team can be one of them. Just know your limits, figure out how much you can contribute and be confortable in that role. I was a college mentor yet only contributed five to fifteen hours a week. Yet I wasn't the go to guy, did what I could, and the team was happy with my involvement. I'm just trying to say that you can do FIRST and not dive head in as paradoxal as that may sound.

Tim Delles

01-05-2006, 12:29

D.J. Fluck
Purdue University, Class of 2008

Everyone should listen to DJ. He has personal experience, as do I about how FIRST can impact your grades when you go on to college.

After my final year as a high school member on 229, I decided I would go to Clarkson where I would be able to still participate on the team. (believe me more was put into thought than just i wanted to be on the team. I had to make a lot of decisions concerning Clarkson and my other 2 top choices) However once the season started I never budgeted my time, and so ended up doing a lot more things for FIRST than I could handle along with doing well in school.

Short story is I ended up not doing so hot this semester. So for all of the people that are going on to college and starting or joining teams, remember that school should always come first. That is something i learned this year and i hope that it doesn't happen to any incoming freshman not only on our team but on everyone's team next year.

Good luck

Tim
Team 229
Clarkson University
Class of 2009

KenWittlief

01-05-2006, 13:06

wow this is a touchy subject, and my post here may not be very popular

The purpose of FIRST is to team up engineering and science/technolgy professionals with HS students so they can get an idea what a career in that field will be like.

While you are in college you are not yet an engineer / professional / scientist... you are a student with no real-world (employment) experience

if you were on the FIRST team in HS, you were at the top of the ladder as a HS senior. While you are in college you are somewhere between HS student and professional mentor.

From my experience in college every hour devoted to classes and study and projects and lab assignments directly correlated to your grade for that course. The more time you spend on your studies, the higher your grade. When you graduate the primary factor your potential employers will look at is your QPA. Excuses and rationale for why you do not have a 4.0 average + 25¢ will get you a cup of coffee.

The logical conclusion is: FIRST motivated you to goto college. Do your best there, get the best grades you can, do the college level engineering projects and contests, get a job and a few years experience, THEN find the time to be a mentor to a FIRST team.

If you do decide to be a mentor while you are in college then accept the fact that you will not play a key role on the team. You are no longer a HS student, and you are not yet an engineer.

Katie Reynolds

01-05-2006, 13:23

If you do decide to be a mentor while you are in college then accept the fact that you will not play a key role on the team. Wrong. My team (857) is comprised of one high school teacher, 7 college students and 17 high school students. As far as "engineers" go, the college students are all 857 has. We're supported by GM, Ford and DCX through Michigan Tech, yet have no professionals - in any capacity - to help us out. College mentors are key on 857 because without them, there would be one high school physics teacher and a bunch of high school students. Houghton doesn't have the engineering industry (and small businesses simply aren't interested - yet, we're working on it) to help us.

That said, DJ is 100% correct. I took a year off from FIRST - mostly because I was in the process of switching schools at semester last year - thinking, "Hey, I'll have some time to get my act together and then I can mentor." It was a nice thought, but my semester GPA will reflect that my act - as far as school is concerned - was far from together. While mentoring a team is a phenominal, rewarding experience, college is far too expensive to come out saying, "Well, I graduated with a 2.5 GPA ... but I mentored a FIRST team!"

Stephen.Yanczura

01-05-2006, 14:11

Remember that if you do provide your help to a team like I did, you are provideing what you can, if you provide too much, you will lose track of your future and eventually you will slide in your studies. I know too that Robotics has occationaly slid my grades a bit. So instead of attending robotics, I stayed and did my work and was an inseration for the students to make sure that they do their work, rather than spend all their time on the robot.

A college mentor's greatest gift for a team is the willingness to continue education and to show that there is a future for them all.

Quoted for truth. Do what you can to help your team, and never give anything but your all; but show your students you know what needs to come first.

-Stephen Yanczura
-Former Member 195, Southington, CT
-Current Mentor 1660, Harlem, NY

Mikell Taylor

01-05-2006, 14:56

My high school team was mentored by Ohio State engineering students. They were some of the most inspirational people I've ever met. I still keep in touch with several of them now as they've gone on to PhDs, jobs, and so forth. They're very valuable connections and I really enjoyed the chance to get to know them and learn from them. Not being very far removed from the high school experience, they understood how we learned, how we worked, and could adjust their mentorship appropriately.

Also, if you talk to Woodie and Dean, they want nothing more than to figure out how to get more college students involved as mentors.

Ryan Dognaux

01-05-2006, 15:03

After hearing many a story about slipping grades, burnout, and such, I decided to take a more laid back year with FIRST. I helped with Boilermaker Regional, and that was it. And I think it has proven to be a good choice, my 3.5 GPA is right about where I want to be for my freshman year and I have had more time to dedicate to school work. Though I'm not going into Engineering, the Computer Graphics Technology department at Purdue has given me more projects this year than I had throughout many years in high school. Regardless of your major, your first year of college is meant to test you and it will. Now that I've had a year off, I'm hoping to come back full force next season.

D.J. Fluck

01-05-2006, 15:41

If you do decide to be a mentor while you are in college then accept the fact that you will not play a key role on the team. You are no longer a HS student, and you are not yet an engineer.

Ken,

I'd have to disagree with that statement. At Purdue, things are similar to MTU's ways. The college students play a very big role on each team (at least my team last year did, and Ive seen no evidence to prove it otherwise). The college students team up with 2 or 3 teachers from each high school with Purdue Faculty overseeing the students as a whole.

Sure there will be exceptions to this as every school is run differently.

If you come into a team at a limited role, or telling yourself you will only go 2 days a week, its very easy to let your guard down and those 2 days turn into 5, 6, or every day.

It's a tricky situation and everyone is different. I provided my story just to let people know the risks in addition to the many benefits of this program.

Eugenia Gabrielov

01-05-2006, 16:11

Ken,

I'd have to disagree with that statement. At Purdue, things are similar to MTU's ways. The college students play a very big role on each team (at least my team last year did, and Ive seen no evidence to prove it otherwise). The college students team up with 2 or 3 teachers from each high school with Purdue Faculty overseeing the students as a whole.

I shall be brief: as a student on a Purdue University team, I have found that my college mentors inspire me. No, they're not professional engineers. But hey, they know more than I do, and I suppose that is the key here isn't it?

KenWittlief

01-05-2006, 16:58

Ken,

I'd have to disagree with that statement. At Purdue, things are similar to MTU's ways. The college students play a very big role on each team ....

I said my post would not be popular, and several students have already complained.

If you have a FIRST team with only college students for mentors that is not the ideal situation. Its not what FIRST was intended to be, and its not in the best interests for the college student.

I would much rather have a person finish their degree and spend a few years gaining professional experience first, and then mentor a team, than to have a person be a mentor while they are in college and compromise their grades ( to any degree).

You only get one shot at college, but your career will last the rest of your life. If the promises of FIRST are real there will be plenty of engineers to come back and be mentors once they have their career started on the best footing possible.

Mikell Taylor

01-05-2006, 19:36

I repeat: I have had conversations with both Woodie and Dean, personally, where they ask me (I'm about to finish college) how they can change FIRST to get more college students involved as mentors. I would be careful assuming what FIRST "intends" for teams.

Also, as a former student mentored by college students, I found that, compared to the teams I met at competition who were mentored by professional engineers, we had more chance to actually do the work on the robot. They also were less able to say "Well, we know this is bad, because of 20 years of experience, blah blah blah..." Sure, we messed up more, but I think we learned so much from it that it's worth it.

I would not presume to assert that one FIRST experience is better than the next. There exist successful teams without *any* mentors. And for that matter, "successful" is entirely relative. FIRST intends for students to be inspired -- that's what the acronym means. I was inspired by my college mentors. The mentorship fulfilled its purpose. What more do you want?

Mikell Taylor

01-05-2006, 19:46

Also -- I'm sorry to double-post -- I just went through three very successful job interview cycles resulting in three amazing offers. Two of the three were through FIRST contacts I've made in the last four years, while at college, in my mentor/volunteer capacity. One was through another connection, but, in all three of them, at some point during my interview the issue of teamwork, team leadership, and how to teach and explain things came up in one way or the other. My FIRST mentorship experience was perfect for answering those questions -- being a mentor is challenging, and going from student to mentor is a difficult but rewarding change. I believe there is a lot of benefit to the college mentors in this respect and it can in fact vastly improve the footing on which they begin their careers. It's a continuous cycle of inspiration, encouragement, and networking. It shouldn't have to stop just because you go to college.

StephLee

01-05-2006, 19:53

I would not presume to assert that one FIRST experience is better than the next. There exist successful teams without *any* mentors. And for that matter, "successful" is entirely relative. FIRST intends for students to be inspired -- that's what the acronym means. I was inspired by my college mentors. The mentorship fulfilled its purpose. What more do you want?

This is the main point of FIRST. If you can't believe the acronym, what CAN you believe?

That said, we have two graduating seniors this year, and at least one plans to try and stay involved next year. I will point him to this thread so he sees the stories everyone has shared, but obviously it's up to him to know if he can handle it.

Mark Pierce

01-05-2006, 19:54

I really appreciate the college students who have time to help teams, but I have to agree that no commitments should be made that might interfere with school. Students, parents and scholarship sponsors are paying for you to concentrate on a degree, and deserve you holding up your part of the bargain. If you can volunteer without losing sight of priorities, great. Just don't make promises that you shouldn't keep.

That being said, I understand that things get in the way of schoolwork. FIRST is a lot better reason than mine or many students' to go on academic probation ;) . (Note: I also made the good Dean's list while at MTU)

Edit: My wife pointed out that priorities apply to all mentors. Jobs and families have to come first for everyone.

Jaine Perotti

01-05-2006, 20:14

I was thinking about this last night (boy did this past Championship get me thinking!), and I have been debating for a while now about what I am interested in doing for FIRST when I move to Miami for college.

I have been thinking about waiting at least one year before getting involved in mentoring another FIRST team in the area. I certainly do not want to attempt to start a new team, because as a freshman, I know I will need time to adjust to my new environment and establish a living routine before I throw myself into such a time commitment.

However, I am seriously considering getting involved in starting a Lego League program at the Miccosukee Indian School - an elementary school on the local Indian reservation. A friend of my mother works there, and she told me that the technology teacher at that school is interested in incorporating Lego robotics into the curriculum. I am hoping that I will be able to help him with preparation of curriculum materials, and in the founding of a Lego League team if there is enough interest. However, founding a team there will be time intensive, and I am currently debating as to whether or not I want to get involved in doing that yet at this point.

I am quite sure, however, that I want to become involved in South Florida FIRST. There are probably a lot of organizational tasks that I can easily complete from my dorm room (paperwork, phone calls, etc.), and I am very interested in brainstorming more ideas to make the organization more effective and far reaching.

And of course, I am interested in volunteering at the Florida Regional and next year's Championship, as well as helping with the organization of Mission Mayhem, the off season competition in Ft. Lauderdale.

I figure that if I try to limit myself to things which can be done easily without having to spend a great deal of time off campus, I will be able to balance homework and my job. Volunteer work and brainstorming/paperwork for South Florida FIRST will hopefully be manageable for me. As for the Lego League program, perhaps I can serve as an adviser for the time being, and only mentor FLL and FRC teams when I am positive that I have the time and energy to do so.

-- Jaine

Melissa Nute

01-05-2006, 20:24

I thought about mentoring when I came to college. Then I started working, joining a sorority, a community group, and just hanging out. To be honest, I'm glad I'm not mentoring a team. WPI's term system basically leaves C Term parallel to the build season. I can not afford to lose my scholarship by devoting too much time to FIRST instead of classes.

I enjoy volunteering. Volunteering is a great way to allow yourself to still be involved in FIRST. FIRST constantly needs volunteers for events. You see a different side of the events. You get to see how the FIRST magic is made. You don't have to worry about the team or team drama.

Freddy Schurr

01-05-2006, 20:34

Attention all Seniors thinking of mentoring, THINK before you decide to ACT!

If you decide to mentor, you are asking for a lot of time to be taken out of your schedule. It is very demanding and you will not have a social life, well maybe but who knows. During the fall semester, reality step in and I was not doing that well. However, my fellow mentors (high school teachers) agree that I could take some time off and get hit my studies once again. Currently I am still mentoring 204 and possibly looking into mentoring another NJ team this summer, but who knows. Remember you or your family or F.A is paying for the college education and you need to keep up with your studies and do the homework. Mentoring is not for the faint of heart and should be decided among-est yourself and your family members first. I suggest that you take the freshman year off and volunteer at FIRST event or off-season competitions. After freshman year, if you feel that you can do it, then mentor a team.

Also, on another note, DO NOT START YOUR OWN TEAM AT YOUR UNIVERSITY OR COLLEGE. If you decided to do this, you will fail and not succeed at college. Trust me, I have talked to many college mentors who have done this and now are paying for the repress icons because of it.

Mikell Taylor

01-05-2006, 20:37

RoboMadi

01-05-2006, 20:46

Interesting discussion on a very different topic. It actually varies from person to person or situation to situation. As far as my own opinion goes, i think its a good thing to mentor teams. Especially when your own success is through that team. In case of Team 612, we had no college mentors until this year. Chris Thai came back to help us out because he saw the lack of mentor ship in our team (we have only 2 mentors), and also he was inspired how FIRST has changed his life and can change the life of other people.

And now moving on, as it changed my life (scholarships, cool job and recognition), I'll definitely come back to help out my team. But it is true that my existence as a Student at an University counts first then mentoring a FIRST team.
As people have said before, make your own decision; it only requires a common sense.

Chris Fultz

01-05-2006, 20:47

KenWittlief

01-05-2006, 23:06

I get the sense that some college students feel they owe something to their HS FIRST team, or to FIRST in general, and that they have to give something back.

So much energy and life-force has been focused on giving you the opportunity to attend college. I cannot over emphasize giving you. You cannot possibly know the sacrifices that people make to support our university system, the personal sacrifices your parents and loved-ones make, and even the people who served as mentors to inspire you to go to college.

This is the one time in your life to put your own interests first, to be a little self-ish, and to get everything you can out of those 4 or 5 years.

College is all about you! You should not feel guilty about that, because in the big picture what is best for you now is best for society in the long run. If you co-op with an important company and end up working for them, if you start your own business while you are in school, if you do very well and are sponsored by a professor to stay on and get your masters or doctorate degree - the more energy you focus on your own career in college the better you will do in the end.

And then when you want to give something back to FIRST, or to your community, or to humanity in general, the more you have achieved the more you will have to give back.

As others have said, there are many FIRST related things you can volunteer for while you are in college, helping out with regionals, tasks that will only take a few days of your time, without committing yourself to 20 hours a week for 8 weeks as a team mentor.

GaryVoshol

02-05-2006, 10:31

If you do decide to be a mentor while you are in college then accept the fact that you will not play a key role on the team. You are no longer a HS student, and you are not yet an engineer.
I think the most important sentence in this paragraph is not the first, but the second. You don't know what your role will be - that will depend on the organization of the team you join.

However, it cannot be stated too emphatically: YOU ARE NO LONGER A HIGH SCHOOL STUDENT. You cannot expect to be just another one of the kids. For one thing, you are probably an adult (at least you're over 18, maturity aside) and the kids are not. That alone creates a legal difference in your status - remember that in your relationships and interactions with teams.

If it's your former team that you're considering mentoring - reconsider it very intently. Those kids that are juniors and your friends this year are supposed to be the team leaders next year. If you come back and your mere presence being there usurps that role from them, you will have failed as a mentor. A person who shows up twice during the build season, and then accompanies the team to a competition, isn't a mentor - he's an alumnus. Figure out what your role should and will be before committing - talk it over with the coaches.

Don't offer to mentor just because "you can't let it go". There are many great experiences we have in life that cannot be recreated, no matter how hard we try. We have to accept that we can't go back, we can never relive the wonderful moments we have had. We can make great new memories - just make sure you're getting into mentoring for that reason, not to try to extend your current experiences.

The suggestion to volunteer at an event is wonderful. It will be a short-term high-time commitment, rather than a long-term high-time commitment. Many college students can arrange their schedules for a weekend without undue effects on their grades - as long as you don't skip exams or other important class sessions!

Whatever you decide to do, make sure it will be positive, both for you personally and for the team. Don't let your grades suffer because of it - if you have to restrict your participation to once or twice a week, so be it, I'm sure the team will accept your limited role if they are aware of it from the beginning.

Richard Wallace

02-05-2006, 11:35

The suggestion to volunteer at an event is wonderful. It will be a short-term high-time commitment, rather than a long-term high-time commitment. Many college students can arrange their schedules for a weekend without undue effects on their grades - as long as you don't skip exams or other important class sessions!Second that: FIRST team alumni (IMO) make the best volunteers. If you'll be a college student in the same geographic region as your high-school FIRST team, it is likely that you've already met someone who can help you get started as a volunteer, maybe a mentor on your team or another team, or a regional committee member.

Team experience can make it easier to understand how your volunteer role fits into the overall success of a FIRST event. You may also have some detailed knowledge such as the rules, the kit of parts, event logistics, or a good network of people you've met at previous events that will make you especially useful as a volunteer.

wendymom

02-05-2006, 15:36

D.J. > You started a great thread here, and I think your point was for college students to make a careful decision, and not to debate the merits of the value of a college student as a mentor.

For your point, I think you are right on. As a college student, you need to first be a college student. You are there to learn, to grow, to mature. The college expereince is a unique one and won't be like any other time in your life.

If you can maintain your grades and sanity and enjoy some of the college life, AND be a mentor, by all means go for it. if you can't, maybe volunteering for a kick-off event, or at a Regional or the Championship is a better option. OR, maybe just cheering while watching webcasts is the best choice.

As a potential employer for some of you, I can tell you that the first screen you have to pass just to get an interview is GPA. If the grades aren't there, regardless of why not, you probably won't get an interview slot at many companies. Fair? Maybe, Maybe not, but there as to be some type of a screening process up front. After top grades, then you have to get through the interview process, then, the extra activities you were a part of will be looked at.

You won't get hired because you were a FIRST mentor but had terrible grades and did not learn anything, but you might get hired if you have great academic performance, a good interview, and some service / volunteer activities while you were in school.

And at the end of the day, I would hope at least part of the reason you are in college is to be abe to get a great job when you finish.

I have to disagree with this statement. All 4 of the college mentors on our team 1902 (whom we would not exsist without) were offered jobs at the FLA regional just on the basis of what they had helped accomplish.

I know when my "college boys" signed on they had no intention of being quite so involved. We really didnt have any other "professionals" But when the team builds in your garage what choice do you have (THANKS DAN)

But we as a team made the effort to make sure that we respected the need for the mentors to study. In fact there were nights that as team mom I sent one or two of them home to make sure projects were done. They also set the standard for the high schoolers as to how to manage robotics and studies ( and a little bit of social life as well)

You do need to set your own limits and no one knows that better than you. But I love my college guys and I am so glad they helped build the most fun rookie team ever

OINK OINK BOOM

Summmergrl2298

04-05-2006, 15:05

If you have a FIRST team with only college students for mentors that is not the ideal situation. Its not what FIRST was intended to be, and its not in the best interests for the college student.

I tend to agree with you...I've been debating whether or not to try and start a team myself, but then as I read all these posts I realize that it may be a better idea to start working with a team rather than begin a new one. A team with only college mentors may not be a good idea because you're balancing what is almost two full time jobs. Starting a new team IS like a fulltime job (so is college)...even during build season it becomes veryyyyyy strenuous. But you guys know that already :D

Kevin Kolodziej

04-05-2006, 15:28

This is a great thread and all students that are considering continuing their involvement with FIRST while in college should take a look at it - but they need to evaluate themselves to know for sure what they can do. Some can handle it, some cannot. When I look back at the things I have done with FIRST while in college, its a hard list for me to believe. The fact that I have kept up a 3.5+ GPA is even more of a miracle. I have had a blast doing it, but if I knew what all I would be doing before I did it, I cannot say for sure that I would have done it.

Time management is key. If you are going to be an integral part of a team, you need to make sure that your schedule can handle it. Block off time for everything EXCEPT robots and other extracurricular activities first, and then see what you have time for. I have no problem admitting that my TV time currently consists of one hour a day as I go to bed and no video games anymore. My Chiefdelphi time is significantly reduced too :ahh:

One thing is for sure though - if I had NOT done what I have done while in college, the last 4 years would have been VERY boring. Getting a good education is great...its extremely important...but I think most businesses look for what else you have done. Most of the businesses that MSOE students apply at do not even look at grades. I cannot guess how common that is, however.

One final thing: don't be afraid to try it and fail.
"Success often comes from taking a misstep in the right direction." - Anonymous

Kev

travis48elite

06-05-2006, 14:12

This is my finial year on my team as a student and I understand what you are all saying. That is why I am going to go through my first semester without helping my team that much. That way I can be confident by the end of that semester if I then choose to help out my team. Besides I think my team will understand if I choose to not really help them out that much. And I am sure everyone else's team will understand that also coming from their team members. Because they will understand you if you education is really keeping you away from helping the team. But I do not think they will understand if you start mentoring them, putting killer hours in on your part and you end up taking summer classes. No, that in my opinion is not the way to go. Me I think I will just help out my team whenever I feel comfortable enough to the point my grades will not suffer.

josh s

08-05-2006, 08:35

TubaMorg

08-05-2006, 13:20

This is a pretty interesting thread and brings up the generations old dilemma a lot of post-High School people suffer through. The I'm-18-but-I-am-still-a-kid transition period. I remember around this time in my life suffering through the same things. It is really difficult to switch from being part of the gang to being an outsider. Even worse, as a Senior everyone is telling you how great you are, giving you scholarships, giving you awards, making you out to be some sort of super hero. Then you graduate. You move into the next phase of your life, whether it be college, military, or whatever and you find out not many people are all the impressed with you any more. It is natural to return back to the scene of glory and try to recapture the magic. But it's never the same, it's never as great as you remember. The key is to recognize this and figure out what your new role as a "grown up" is.

Reminds me of Bruce Springsteen's song 'Glory Days'

Changing sub-topic: This year we were fortunate to have several University of Houston engineering students help with our team. We are still feeling our way through this relationship, because it didn't quite work out to our satisfaction this year. They planned on coming only on Fridays and Saturdays, so as to minimize the impact on their studies, which is reasonable enough. However, they got their feelings hurt when design ideas that they had one week weren't implemented the following week. We tried to explain to them that during a frantic 6 week build period, a LOT of changes can take place over 7 days and that without continued involvement, their ideas might not make it.

So what I am going to try and do for next year is to meet with the Engineering department deans and see if the UH students could get some credit for participating in FIRST. One thing that sort of amazed me was that a lot of engineering students don't have the foggiest idea of how to build anything. FIRST mentoring is a fantastic opportunity to gain first (not a pun) hand experience on planning and building. PLUS if they are receiving college credit for their participation (sort of an independent study model), they can logically devote more time to a FIRST team without impacting their grades negatively.

Problems with the idea: Engineering schools usually have a pretty strict curriculum that needs to be followed to graduate in time (4 years). The rigidity of the curriculum may make implementing a credit course for FIRST mentoring difficult. Even if the engineering school administration seems amenable to the idea, it may take quite a bit of time before it becomes available to the students.

So, to you college mentors out there, if you could receive 1 or 2 credit hours for working with a FIRST team, wouldn't this help? It might be worth a try. Maybe if ONE engineering school out there were to allow it, it would be easier to convince other schools to follow suit.

Mikell Taylor

08-05-2006, 17:57

My mentors were from Ohio State, and they got credit. I'm not sure exactly how it worked, but if you contact their engineering department, I'm sure they'd be happy to tell you how it all fits together. They have VERY active FIRST mentorship with several teams and they're very successful.

My college just does it as a community service project -- the time commitment we can manage for that fits up rather well with the particular school we mentor.

Stephen Kowski

08-05-2006, 18:53

I can't help but agree with many of the points made in this thread about time management, grades, and staying in school. It is important, and in my first year in college while starting a new team at a new school (<2 yrs in existance) I did not do well I will admit (I failed a course, and got a D in my first two semesters). Would I have done the exact same thing knowing that my grades were poor and I put myself in a bad situation with my school and family? In a heartbeat. It was more than rewarding to see the student's lives I have had some kind of impact on and to pass on an opportunity that was afforded to me.

I guess my point is not to pat myself on the back here, but rather to share my experience of it looking bad for a long time. Now all that being said I don't agree that this is some kind of scary thing that all students cannot possibly handle. It is possible, I know because I know a lot of people that keep showing up every year (StudManDan, George1902, RogerR, etc etc) despite it being a juggling act. The key is that this is an exercise in balance and time management.

Anything is going to be too much if you overdo it and forget about the rest that is why this is such a balancing act and should be thought of as such. Are there people that go to college and overdo a co-op or internship opportunity? Yes. Are there people that go to college and overdo partying? You bet. Are there people that overdo and study too much and don't realize the college experience they are missing? ABSOLUTELY.

To get to the point grades are important, but they aren't the only thing in college and learning the skill in college of how to balance what is and isn't important in your life is an important one that will serve you throughout your life.

I don't like the thought that this is so insurmountable that you cannot in any terms pull off FIRST, a job, on campus student organization involvement, or something else. You can, it just takes a realization that it will not be easy. Being "selfish" is good in some respects, but sometimes through these kinds of threads students can become intimidated to get their feet wet in the FIRST college environment and end up doing nothing but paying lip service to FIRST.

Don't, I repeat, don't miss out on your college experience by sitting in your room and studying 24/7 because putting yourself in a bubble is not how the world works. It is OK to fail, it is OK to make mistakes, but just try to regulate it and not give up.

Rick TYler

08-05-2006, 18:57

A team with only college mentors may not be a good idea because you're balancing what is almost two full time jobs. Starting a new team IS like a fulltime job (so is college).

What about those of us post-college mentors? Isn't mentoring a team sort of like having two full-time jobs where my other full-time job is -- you know -- a full-time job?

(P.S. Having a full-time job is more time consuming than going to college. Trust me on this.)

Kims Robot

08-05-2006, 23:36

I get the sense that some college students feel they owe something to their HS FIRST team, or to FIRST in general, and that they have to give something back. I have to say that Ken nailed it for me here. My goal in starting 229 was to inspire just one student the way I had been inspired. As I said I got that and SOO much more...

There are definitely two sides to this coin. I like how DJ suggests taking a year off to figure things out. I dove headfirst into FIRST and not only was in FIRST but started a team my freshman year of college. I spent a TON of time over the summer planning it out, scrawling papers of ideas, typing up agendas, etc. I ran a pretty good preseason my freshman year, got everyone involved, we had a great time, and my GPA was a 3.5!! Not bad? I was also on the varsity ski team, and did i mention I only slept 3-4 hours a night? I was soon to find out this couldnt hold. My second semester, I lived and breathed FIRST. I scrambled to keep up with my studies, clawing every step of the way. The only thing that probably saved me was that finals were nearly three months after our last event. I got a 3.0 that semester. The next semester, Clarkson threw more at me, in the way of grades and the team. They werent happy with our performance the last year and got a bunch of MBA students to run the team... I had to do twice the work. That and my best friend having a baby nearly broke me... I ended up with a 2.7 GPA that semester. I nearly got kicked out of the honors program...

By then I started to realize my priorities, I had to let FIRST take a bit of a backseat (though I still mentored for the next two years) while I painfully clawed my way back up to a 3.25. I finally had to take my senior year off for fear of burnout and not being able to get all my coursework done, plus all the job interviews and everything else... so I chose to just volunteer. I ended up with a 3.3 and a very rewarding college experience.

That said, would I change anything? I dont think so. The struggles I went through made me who I am today. Made me able to keep up with 1511, taught me more than I could ever have learned about leadership, and even more about time management. I loved my college FIRST experience, and its probably why I had so many job offers (even more than any of the 4.0 students I knew), but it is NOT something to be taken lightly. It is NOT like your high school team, and it is NOT easy.

So with one side being to consider your college studies first, the second side is to grow to be all you can be. The best is likely a combination of both. Take your year off, but then give it all you have... even if thats only two years. Engineering companies LOVE well rounded students, they are looking for the leaders of tomorrow... but if FIRST only produces kids that are dedicated to FIRST... we wont have much of an impact on the world. We need to produce engineers first, FIRST mentors second.

JaneYoung

08-05-2006, 23:49

I think everyone should keep talking.
There is a lot be learned, gained, explored.

There's nothing that has been set in stone for 100 years anywhere in any aspect of FIRST. It is still growing and developing in many areas. This is just one. It's all good.

And congratulations to everyone for being so committed to helping this growth. Also, I can't help but say this, congratulations to all of you young women who are seriously trying to figure out how to juggle your course load, your college transition, and FIRST. That's incredible.

I actually weigh in on the side of college first, help with the competitions and off season and come back strong in a few years but that is my conservative opinion only.
Jane

kibbs425

11-05-2006, 19:25

I agree with whats being said about being careful with getting involved with a team when you get to college. I just finished my second year at Northeastern and have been on the Nutrons for both years. To go to college and do FIRST is a huge time commitment. Keeping up with classes during the build is tough and requires a lot of scheduling to do it and keep up your grades.

I would just like to say though that being involved in FIRST may help your grades too. Joining the team you will work with other college students some of them will be upperclassmen or the same level as you. The upperclassmen have been where you are and know what its like. They can help you with your classes, homework, how the professors are and what they are like. Use them as a resource. If you have a problem with they homework assignment ask them. They have done it before and can usually assist with most of it.

I know that this past build I stayed after the meetings were finished to help with some physics homework and help them understand how it worked so they would be prepared for the quiz. When I was a freshmen I had some C++ projects that I needed to do and I had the programmer on the team help me debug the program when I couldn't find the problem.

If you join a team while your in college no one says you have to be the person that does everything and becomes over committed. If you just do what you can even if its only a little then its greatly appreciated. Be open minded when going in if its an established team. Its not always going to be like it was back in high school for you. Use the resources of the team to get the help in classes and the other experienced members will help you along the way.

I would say get involved even if its only on a small scale. Make sure you grades don't suffer and take that help and assistance the team can offer you. We've been where you are now and know what its like so if you ask I'm sure we can find an answer to most of your problems. So don't always think that if you stay away from the team it will be the best because it will allow you to spend more time on your school work but if you manage your time and use the assistance/experience of the upperclassmen on the team you will be able to excel in your classes as well and have some fun in FIRST.

patrickrd

11-05-2006, 20:22

A lot of excellent points in this thread. However, I hesitate to tell everyone not to try and start a team or be involved with a team in college. Had I not started a team as a Freshman in college, there is no way I would be where I am today. That experience taught me a lot at many different levels and provided me with even more opportunities later in college and into the working world.

However!
- Put learning first. Make sure you maintain an above average GPA and understand what you are learning and why you are learning it (the second part is equally important). If you are doing FIRST and it is getting in the way of your learning or your health (e.g. no sleep or too much stress), take a break.
- Make sure you're doing it for the right reason. I don't need to tell anyone here what the purpose of FIRST is, but it is easy to forget that you are a mentor. Every now and then I see a college-based team full of college students giddy about building a robot and having the best drive system, while the high school students are hardly involved at all. Remember: if there is not one or more high school students by your side and actively contributing, then you are not being a mentor. I have seen some great college student mentors, but it is rare. More often than not, it seems college students still act like they are in high school when they are involved with first. It took me some time to learn this myself and I was probably far too "hands on" during certain periods of time.
- If you are going to start a team, starting a team has to be your dream and you absolutely need to be convinced that it is what you want. Are you "eating, sleeping, dreaming with that one thing on your mind?" If not, then starting a team is probably not for you. If you do decide to start a team, remember, it is a TEAM. Concentrate on finding the right people to comprise your team, get them excited, and let the team take it's own shape. Remember, your only at college for four years, you're paying a lot to go there, and there is an awful lot college has to offer. It is a horrible mistake to be so caught up in FIRST that four years of college pass you by before you realize the world outside of FIRST. Nothing made me happier than to see the team I had started grow and flourish during my last two years at college, while I had reduced my involvement in the team to 3-4 hours per week.

In summary:
- Don't start a team, unless you are sure it's what you want to do, and you can keep an eye on yourself. If it's hurting classes or your college experience, it's time to stop and hand off the efforts to someone else. Remember, nobody will want to hire you if you have a bad GPA. If you maintain a GPA well above average, you will probably have no trouble finding a job. If on top of that you can have FIRST experience or other project experience, you will be in very good shape. A bad GPA and a lot of experience will absolutely not get you your dream job and will not get you into grad school.
- If you are going to be a mentor, same advice applies, but make sure you're being a mentor and not a high school student.

Jeff Waegelin

11-05-2006, 23:32

I definitely agree that being a college FIRST mentor is an exercise in time management. My freshman year, I handled this pretty poorly, skipped classes, and ended up with my first C ever. That semester pretty took a big chunk out of my GPA, and I've spent every semester since trying to recover from it. That being said, the last 2 years, I've managed to get a 3.5 and a 3.8, while putting in a lot more time in FIRST than I did as a freshman. I basically sacrificed any vague resemblance of a social life, but, I did what I needed to so I could excel in school and mentor my team.

My biggest advice to anyone considering being a college mentor, though: don't expect it to be another 4 years of high school FIRST. I tried that for one year with my old high school team, and it was an unmitigated disaster. After switching to a team closer to school, I was able to start fresh, in a new role. I realized that it was no longer my job to do everything on the robot, but rather to pass on what I learned to the students. Realizing that I now had a team of high school students who looked up to me, respected me, and learned from me was one of the most rewarding feelings ever. It's a completely different experience, but one of great value, if you realize and accept that new role.

robodude03

12-05-2006, 01:51

Personally, mentoring has opened up many opportunities for me throughout college. However, my situation may be a little different. I am a FIRST Scholar Award winner and as such my school likes me and even encourages me to participate in more events. As long as I invite the professors along and bring several robotics teams out to the school, they are fine with me devoting a tremendous amount of hours to FIRST and allow me to fly over all of the country. I have found that if you get your school involved and make a note of what you are doing, while keeping your studies in mind, the school will support you. Throughout the process I have also used the engineers as tutors to help me out in my academics as well :D

KenWittlief

12-05-2006, 10:36

... Put learning first. Make sure you maintain an above average GPA and understand what you are learning and why you are learning it (the second part is equally important). If you are doing FIRST and it is getting in the way of your learning or your health (e.g. no sleep or too much stress), take a break. ...
...

If you are going to start a team, starting a team has to be your dream and you absolutely need to be convinced that it is what you want. Are you "eating, sleeping, dreaming with that one thing on your mind?" If not, then starting a team is probably not for you. ...

There are two very different and confusing messages here (I think maybe you have not yet come to terms with your own college FIRST experience?).

Have people started taking the opportunity to attend college for granted? Is college nothing but grades 13-16 now?

My grandparents came to the US from Germany when they were 18, and I was the first person in my family to attend college and get a degree (ever, as far back as I can trace my family tree).

When you are in college your degree, your career, should be the thing you are living and breathing, not FIRST!

When you graduate and either work for a company, or start you own business, then you will have so many people available if you want to be a FIRST mentor. Most engineers dont sit on the phone calling airlines and bus companies to get the best rates for travel, the company travel coordinator takes care of those things. You dont have to connect with schools to set up the details of the company / school interaction, you have your companies public relations people do all that stuff. You dont have to run around like a headless chicken buying drill bits and bolts and wire - you req then from company stock.

This is the thing that most college students are not aware of - when you are an engineer you will have a corporate structure behind you and you can hand off or delegate so many things to other people to make your FIRST mentoring far more easy, and productive, without sacrificing your career.

I know we always feel that FIRST cannot get along without me - if I dont mentor or start a team, or lead a team this year then nobody else will. It takes a little bit of faith, FIRST can get along without you for 4 or 5 years, in fact FIRST will be better off if you give yourself the time you need to really get your career off on a solid foundation before you come back and be a mentor.

You can definitely still volunteer - There are many tasks in FIRST that need to be done that are not as glamorous as being a team founder or mentor, but they are just as important.

patrickrd

12-05-2006, 22:14

There are two very different and confusing messages here (I think maybe you have not yet come to terms with your own college FIRST experience?).

Have people started taking the opportunity to attend college for granted? Is college nothing but grades 13-16 now?

My grandparents came to the US from Germany when they were 18, and I was the first person in my family to attend college and get a degree (ever, as far back as I can trace my family tree).

When you are in college your degree, your career, should be the thing you are living and breathing, not FIRST!

You're right, In a certain sense I have never fully come to terms with my college FIRST experience. I would be wrong to say that my experience was all positive in the long run. It was a great experience for me in a many, many ways and led to countless opportunities, and I am now at a great job working on a very cool project. But I also did go overboard at some points. I think the lesson learned for me was to draw a line to differentiate dreams and ambition from blind dreams and ambition. Whenever you are pursuing a dream or a goal, it is always critical to keep it real and keep a clear perspective on yourself and how your ambitions are affecting you and your future.

If you can't keep a good balance between your ambitions and the academic portion of your college education, then you need to have the foresight to see that you are headed down a bad path. But if you can keep a good balance, all the power to you.

aaronm_k

23-05-2006, 04:03

For my second year of college (this year) FIRST was a little more demanding and my school slid a little bit (I'll have to repeat diff eq.)
Personally, I wouldn't blame repeating diff. eq. entirely on FIRST: math gets exponentially harder once you move out of the realm of stuff that's intuitive from physics and into the realm of pure math. I saw a similar slide in my grades: I usually have no problem getting A+'s in math classes, but in diff. eq. I barely got an A-. I take it as a grim foreboding of my future math classes.

For me, I can't spend my life listening to professors babble through equations full of greek letters then go home and struggle through books full of stuff that the professor was too lazy to mention. I can take it but I can't drown myself in it. There's got to be more for me. I've got to just go out and build something every once in a while. That's why I did and will continue to stick with FIRST. It is a nice break from boredom.

I will say this though: I have yet to find any extracurricular as good as or better than FIRST.
Hear, hear! Leave the math to the math majors and focus on what you enjoy. College should be an enjoyable experience whichever way you do it.

aaronm_k

23-05-2006, 04:14

Another point to consider:

Taking a year off from being on a team can be a great decision. Although FIRST is a great program with many benefits for students and mentors alike, "burnout" can really make the season drag. I volunteered for a regional my freshman year of college and that was about it. The time away helped me establish what role I wanted to play in FIRST (and college) and allowed me to approach mentoring with a fresh perspective. The student-mentor transition is tough...the expectations are different as well as the responsibility levels. I would suggest taking some time off...odds are you will come back to FIRST with more enthusiasm than before and will be ready to take the next step.
I can see that burnout would be an issue for FIRSTers who have spent all of high school doing robotics. However, I'm a high school senior on a rookie team, and I feel like I'm just getting started with FIRST, so I can't really see myself taking a break next year. I'm not sure whether that's a good decision. Anyone else in a similar situation?

aaronm_k

23-05-2006, 04:59

::waves:: I started my own team. Then again, I'm in the first ever class at a brand new school -- we had to start *everything*. I did wait until my sophomore year, so I had a good sense of my limits, time management, and so forth. Time management is an important skill to learn. I didn't do many other clubs or organizations, but I did have time for FIRST. And I have a halfway decent GPA!

You know what you're capable of. The above post is right: think before you act. But taking risks is sometimes a good thing.
I'm guessing Olin College encouraged you to mentor a FIRST team, rather than worrying about how it would affect your grades. With their vision (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Olin_College#The_Olin_experiment), you will learn a lot from experience that you can't learn in a classroom. My team's leader, an engineer who became a teacher, even says being on a FIRST team will teach you more about engineering than you will ever learn in college.

Beth Sweet

23-05-2006, 09:36

I'm guessing Olin College encouraged you to mentor a FIRST team, rather than worrying about how it would affect your grades. With their vision (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Olin_College#The_Olin_experiment), you will learn a lot from experience that you can't learn in a classroom. My team's leader, an engineer who became a teacher, even says being on a FIRST team will teach you more about engineering than you will ever learn in college.

While what you've said is true, there is one fact that continues to ring true throughout this entire thread. College/university will get you a degree, FIRST will not

Deetman

01-06-2006, 01:51

For the most part I completely agree with the sentiment being expressed in this thread. I can't speak from personal experience of being a college mentor, but I can definitely say that becoming a college mentor is a big decision. I was extremely close to joining Purdue's FIRST program, I had gone through everything required to become a member and the decision was down to me. After looking at what my course load for the second semester would be (19 hours) and other commitments I already had, I made the difficult decision to pass on joining as a college mentor. Looking back at my first year I do not regret this decision one bit. I never would have been able to get the excellent GPA I have, enjoy the social aspect of college, and make the commitments to the student organization I am in had I joined the FIRST program at Purdue. I am not trying to discourage anyone from doing this, I just want to enforce what has already been said about thinking carefully before you act. There are times where I did miss FIRST, especially towards the end of the second semester where I had a strong urge to build something, but just did not have the time to do anything about that.

Above all that, here is what I feel the important part of my message is. There are other things besides FIRST out there. Stepping out of your shell and trying new things is part of what college is. Purdue, like many other schools, has an extremely large number of student organizations on campus (700+). These can range from engineering related clubs such as Solar Racing, Formula and Baja SAE, all the way to things that are a bit more out of the ordinary like an impromptu comedy club or a wine appreciation society (for those of you of age). When you get to whatever college or university you are attending there will be TONS of callouts. Find a few that interest you besides FIRST and go to the callout. Who knows, you might find something you can be just as, if not more, passionate about.

Kevin Dieterle
Purdue University class of 2009.

sanddrag

01-06-2006, 02:01

My team's leader, an engineer who became a teacher, even says being on a FIRST team will teach you more about engineering than you will ever learn in college.Now that doesn't say good things about the education system does it? :ahh: I would put a :D but since I am a college student currently, I'll stick with the :ahh:

Long live FIRST :)

Richard Wallace

01-06-2006, 09:02

Now that doesn't say good things about the education system does it? :ahh: I would put a :D but since I am a college student currently, I'll stick with the :ahh:Working as an engineer for a couple of years after you finish your undergraduate degree will also teach you more about engineering than you ever learned in college. College is mostly about teaching you to learn independently. The most efficient way to do that is through challenges with deadlines attached. Any of several challenging extracurricular projects you can get involved with while still in college will accomplish that, too; based on some of your posts here, you seem to be taking good advantage of such opportunities now, sanddrag.

FIRST is an even better way to learn how to learn independently, because FIRSTers start younger.
Long live FIRST :)Roger that.

KenWittlief

01-06-2006, 10:17

quote]Originally Posted by aaronm_k
My team's leader, an engineer who became a teacher, even says being on a FIRST team will teach you more about engineering than you will ever learn in college.[\quote]

Now that doesn't say good things about the education system does it? :ahh: I would put a :D but since I am a college student currently, I'll stick with the :ahh:

Long live FIRST :)

you learn different things on a FIRST team than you do in college. FIRST is not an engineering crash course, its an engineering exposure experience.

If you attend a college with a 5 year coop program then you will also get the practical hands-on, real project (schedule, budget, tradeoffs, resources....) experience that only comes from being on a real project.

When you graduate from a 4 or 5 year engineering university in most cases you would start working for a corporation as a junior engineer, and they would not expect you to function 100% independantly on a major project.

Engineering is a career of continuous learning, acquiring new skills, and growth.

Sgraff_SRHS06

13-09-2006, 20:19

That's definitely true, but to really get anywhere in some instances, you probably need to scrape up the money to get your Master's or your Ph.D. (I don't know what the situation for Bioengineering majors will be.)

I have not posted anything recently, but I will post about this. My alma mater team has offered me a mentorship position. The advisor is probably asking me the same thing. But I have to tell him and those who want me to mentor--I'm in college right now. I don't know when or if I'll come back because my academics take full priority. I don't know my current transcript, but based on my assignments so far, I think I'm doing pretty well.

I'm ironically on an engineering project with another FIRST alum (from Team 007) and we both are taking our experiences to the project. But it seems like everyone else is on our page (which means either other FIRST alumni or people who are just that way). Apparently all the squabbling and disorganization that typified my team's activities seem to be gone (but we aren't at the storming phase yet.)

I am at a college that has been supportive of FIRST for a number of years. It once sponsored Team 53 before it collapsed (for any oldtimers, 53 was once a dominant team from nearby Greenbelt that suddenly seemed to fold last year.) I think the team was eventually switched from UM's MechE to a Gemstone team with not a lot of money to deal with.

I am not about to drive that hour drive right now to the team. I would see the regional on webcast and keep touch on the boards and give some advice, but Engineering takes so much time.

If you do mentor in college, do it somehow discreetly so that you can still do well and have a social life. If not, you should still stay in touch to pull the team through.

Steve Graff, University of Maryland c/o 2010

Erin Rapacki

13-09-2006, 23:43

I'll try to keep this short & sweet:
(on my fifth and final year of undergraduate engineering now :) )

-Before doing FIRST during college; ask yourself "how will FIRST help me accomplish my career/life goals?"
-Pick the ONE aspect of FIRST that will MOST help you gain a competitive edge in your career/life goals (mentoring, design, machining, writing, project management, procurement, fund raising, leadership, etc...)
-Make sure that ONE aspect is a lot less involved than what you think you could handle.
-Do that one aspect well.

You may change that one aspect from year to year, according to how your career/life goals change, but what I found out in college is:

FIRST can help you advance your skills & knowledge base.
FIRST can help you discover your own interests & expertise.
FIRST can lead you to job offers.
FIRST can make you stressed out beyond belief and distract you from classes!

So basically, if you must do FIRST (and I do recommend staying involved), do one small thing, do it WELL (people will notice that), and spend the rest of your time concentrating on classes.

The ONLY reason I did so much with FIRST during my undergraduate career is because I was working at internships between the months of January-June for 2004, 2005, & 2006. Had I been involved with classes during the winter months I would have accomplished far less.

All in all... if you're obsessed with FIRST, do an internship during build season :D .

Freddy Schurr

10-10-2006, 21:24

http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/showthread.php?t=37819

This may also help you!

Chris Fultz

11-05-2007, 20:35

Well, it is now May 2007 and we have a whole new group of college students who made the decision to mentor or not mentor a team, and a whole new group of high school seniors who are contemplating what they should do.

I am curious to hear the stories.

Personally, I would recommend taking at least one year off from a team committment between high school and college. Why?

It will help you re-gain perspective of FIRST. Being a student on a team is way different from being a mentor. Let the memories of your senior year continue. It is really tough to not fall into the high schooler mode.

There is so much college has to offer. Clubs, activities, new friends, professors, plays, concerts, and on and on. These next four (or maybe five) years will be the most unique experience you will have. You can't go back later - it can't be the same. FIRST will be here in a few years - ready for your return.

You need to focus on your academics. That is why you are there. :)

Jim E

11-05-2007, 22:40

Personally, at this stage of my career, I would not mentor a team if I was attending college, even if it was 2 classes a week. I would offer support on the weekend during build season ( probably manning the grill:) ) but would be very conservative of my time during the week. Granted, I work full-time and classes would be on a part-time basis.

Colleges and professors only care about academic performance. Thats what they are paid to do and that is also what you or your parents are paying for. Volunteering is a noble deed, but don't lose sight of the goal in front of you. FIRST doesn't offer scholarships for 'Best Mentor'.

If you are in college, keep your eye on the prize, help when you can, and look forward to the day when you can mentor yourself through the eyes of a prodigy. You will be rewarded in due time, and enjoy the experience better when you have better monetary resources available to you to make an impact.

EricVanWyk

12-05-2007, 03:05

I have found that mentoring in the fall is much more effective for me than mentoring during build season.

1) Fall mentoring has no 6 week deadline, so you don't feel so bad missing a session or two to ensure you pass classes.

2) It is much easier to ask an uninitiated fellow college student to teach a single session in a topic in their major than it is to ask them to join during build season. It is actually a rather effective mentor recruiting tool.

3) I firmly believe that many mentors are counter productive during build season. I refuse to do much beyond ensuring the HS student's safety and wellbeing during the build season. From my own HS experience, I know that an overzealous mentor can quickly ruin a student's self esteem with a momentary "I'll do it for you" attitude.

Also, recruit as many low-commitment people as you can. Everyone who graduated high school is qualified to be a low-commitment mentor. Try and get the people who claim to know nothing of anything: they are best at supporting students without squashing them. Ask them to come "once or twice" during build season, and space them out. This has two primary benefits. The first is that each low-commitment mentor allows a core mentor to focus on school better. The second is that each low-commitment mentor will ask a student to explain what is going on, and this explanatory process is where the students usually learn the most about their robot. Olin only has engineering students, so I usually try to grab the Bio-Es for this.

Remember, it is not your job to build a robot. It is your job to act as a glorifeied hybrid safety monitor / white board.

Naminaru

21-08-2007, 04:08

I too am a college mentor, and I won't lie. I got distracted from my schooling when Robotics season rolled around. I didn't take a break between my Senior Year's season and my Freshman in college's season, and to be honest, I'm not too regretful. Luckily, I was able to keep up well enough in school to not let it get to me too much. ^_^

I love mentoring and it keeps me busy during the winter when all school does is stress me out. I find mentoring to hep me relax and keep my mind off of things. Now, I just need to work on no letting it keep my mind off of such things for too long. Then it can be dangerous ^^;;

Eugenia Gabrielov

21-08-2007, 09:29

I am among the college students who chose not to mentor this year. I knew going in that my class load would be tremendous, and that I would want to participate in other clubs and try new things. I did not lose touch with FIRST friends because of my year off - rather, I had more time to dedicate to phone conversations, to talking, to getting to know great friends even more. I attended no events between IRI 2006 & IRI 2007 - even though BMR is in my home town - I spent spring break on a backpacking trip with my school outing club instead.

I spoke to fellow college student Joey Gannon about this at IRI - but I will say it again - going back to FIRST after a year of vacation made me remember everything I loved, everything I cherished, and inspired me to maintain robotics as a potential priority in the future. I missed it, I won't lie. However, I have a great GPA, awesome friends, a rewarding research job, and many opportunities for the years to come.

To all of you new college students, good luck. Whatever decision you make, I hope all goes well for you, and that you enjoy and grow from this new found independence you will have. If you do mentor FIRST, be an asset to your team, but know that your students will admire you all the more if you set an example and finish your own homework. If you don't mentor, and find a void there, fill it with lovely memories with splendid new friends. You owe it to yourself to enjoy college.

Weis

04-04-2008, 15:07

Weis

06-04-2008, 19:05

I did not get involved in FIRST officially until my Junior year of College. I am the Public Relations Coordinator for Purdue FIRST Programs and it is a very rewarding experience. I encourage anyone else to continue mentoring while in college.

More on my last post, there is way more to do with FIRST in college than just mentor FRC teams. There are also mentors for FLL, FTC (or VEX). Just because FRC was a major time commitment in high school, doesn't mean that you have to spend all day and night working with an FRC team. Many of us work with fundraising, public relations, and planning for the Regionals we put on. There is a lot of different stuff to do and it all helps kids interested in FIRST.

703Trombley703

20-04-2008, 19:30

Yeah I myself have thought about mentoring a team when i go out to Ferris State University next year, but I am not so sure if i will have time and i dont think there are any teams close to big rapids.

Joe Matt

21-08-2008, 11:11

Grant Cox

21-08-2008, 11:35

This is a pretty heavy topic.

In one of the first posts, someone made a comment on advice they received from Ken Patton. I received similar advice from 148 mentor JVN (who, for those of you who aren't aware, is famous for his college mentoring experience) - "College is a great time. I would recommend it as 3 priorities: schoolwork (keeping up, etc), the 'college experience' (friends, social clubs, dorm life, etc), and then maybe FIRST. It's extremely easy to let FIRST overcome the first two, and it's important to keep things in line." It's a motif I plan to keep central in my coming years; I know the schoolwork is no cakewalk, but I would love to lend my abilities to an up and coming FRC team.

Now on Voshol's point about volunteering, I wholeheartedly agree. I volunteered at MARC over the summer and it was a ton of fun, working with the coordinators and such almost made it feel like we were our own team (as corny as this sounds), overcoming problems and trying to make everything run smoothly. With the new "district" system in Michigan I'm hoping there will be an event closer to MTU, but if not I may try and volunteer at one of the other events or even the State Final. I 100% recommend it to any graduated senior looking to stay involved and up-to-date with FIRST but without the time commitment of a team.

Kyle Love

21-08-2008, 12:07

As many of my mentors (not just from my current of past team) have told me, School>Robots, FIRST will be there in four years for you to come back to. Sure, it might be hard to deal with, but I know if my grades dip at all, I will "yoink" myself off the team.

Like Weis said, it is very rewarding. I would not take back being on 1646 last year for anything, it was awesome. In the end just do what is right to get through school with a good degree.

RaMoore

21-08-2008, 13:27

This deserves a bump, and frankly, I think no freshman in college should mentor a team at all. Do something different, try new things, get away from FIRST. There aren't many things I believe in, but this is one of them I do 100%.

So here is a question: What about college freshmen that have never heard of FIRST before; should they also be given the same advice?

As with everything there are two sides to this argument, but I think that they have more to gain from their early college involvement and less at risk of being over involved than a just graduated FIRSTer.

Speaking from firsthand experience college freshman also have less to contribute to the mentoring efforts (in the short term) and being so close in age to the HS students can create other difficulties. However college seniors with no FIRST experience also seem to pose the exact same issues and they won't be around to be grow into helpful mentors for the next season.

IndySam

21-08-2008, 13:32

This deserves a bump, and frankly, I think no freshman in college should mentor a team at all. Do something different, try new things, get away from FIRST. There aren't many things I believe in, but this is one of them I do 100%.

Joe, we believe so strongly in this that we do not allow a graduate to become a mentor his first year after leaving the team. Even after that first year they are going to have to work hard to convince us to be a mentor.

Occasional visit, a little tutoring, volunteer to help for an event or fund raising are all OK. But be a mentor and all that entails is not allowed.

Joe Matt

22-08-2008, 14:20

So here is a question: What about college freshmen that have never heard of FIRST before; should they also be given the same advice?

Hands down yes, though it's more about DJ's post of work load and "welcome to college!" than my "grow as a person" montra. FIRST is foremost a high school organization (I'm talking FRC); when you are in college you should focus on more college level activies. DJ's right about the work load, and I'm adding on that working with college students and competing with college students in different competitions than FIRST is more rewarding in many more ways than just mentoring a FIRST team. For those already in the program, it's about taking time off to transition into a new life and purpose, and for those who are just hearing about FIRST, it's about the time committment and the activites.

And to shoot this down, yes FIRST does have college level activies in it, and I think mentoring is a worthwhile thing, but I would never recomend a freshman mentor a FIRST team over joining Mini Baja, cement cannoe, and other college level experiences. Be around people your own age and work with them late at night on campus, what not. Have a college experience.

Again, I'm not saying college mentors are wrong, they're bad, anti-social, or what not. You go away to college to be in college, not in high school. I've considered mentoring my junior year and decided not to because of this, I will have decades of mentoring ahead of me when I graduate and work on a more professional and adult level, plus my new found skills can be brought in, ones that I don't see myself (and thus, as a warning to others) getting through FIRST right in college.

Why am I passonate about this? Because I made the mistake too (just like DJ) and wanted to relive high school instead of embracing what's infront of me. FIRST is a program; not a life style, not a cult. I go to FIRST competitions because I enjoy competitions, and it was part of something I enjoyed in high school and I have many friends still in the organization. I guess FIRSTcast was my outlet for reliving, and that's why we didn't put any really out this past year, and I won't be involved with it this year (surprise Jeff!)

*jumps off soap box and realizes the irony of still posting on CD and the whole "embracing waht's infront of you" comment*

RaMoore

22-08-2008, 15:56

Mentoring in college I think we can all agree is a decision not to be taken lightly, and I agree that the very cautious advice primarily being giving in this thread is wise. Even if you can handle mentoring as a freshman(or even senior), taking a break will probably be in the long run just as rewarding.

Starting and running a team in college has been very difficult but very rewarding for me, and in hindsight I'm pretty glad it took me two years to get the support inline after I got to school. I hesitate to discuss my grades and I only mention this to establish the level of negative effect on my classes and give a data point to potential college mentors. While my grades could have been higher I graduated (BSEE) with several honors and was offered a full fellowship for graduate school. It can be done but you have to be really dedicated and willing to accept some compromises in your life, generally good advice for anything you really want to do anyway.

Every team, school, and student is different, but at Texas Tech University FIRST is run entirely by college students (and some professors) like mini baja, cement canoe, etc. only we actually get stuff done, accept freshmen, create a strong interdisciplinary team and offer course credit or scholarships to many mentors. We also offer the "full college experience"... We build way late into the night on campus, have a couch for sleeping, and have some pretty crazy "mentor only" parties.

We like freshmen to come and help out when they can, but typically no more that 10-15 hours/week during build. The time commitment and focus on classes is easier to enforce on a non-FIRST graduate which is why I asked the original question. We look at FIRST as a great college retention and recruiting tool. By keeping freshman involved with other upperclassmen and graduate students they can build a support structure during the sometimes rocky transition to college. We all can help each other with projects, and even have team study breaks during the build season.

I have done a number of industry co-ops and as part of my degree program survived 5 design labs plus several design classes and I'm still sure that what I've learned through running a FIRST program exceeds the vast majority of that, maybe even combined. A lot of awesome job opportunities and wonderful people have come into my life in college because of my (cult?) interest in the program. It's not for everyone, but it can really work for some people.

All this being said I agree it is very important at point you decide to become a mentor to be doing it for the right reasons and with the right priorities in your life, not to relive HS, but to be looking for that next level of experience while being committed to getting the grades you need.

=Martin=Taylor=

23-08-2008, 02:17

Berkeley is on the semester system....

Whatever shall I do the last three weeks of winter break? :D

RIT_FIRST_LH

16-09-2008, 20:38

If your free and it's close, a great way to help FIRST is to volunteer for a FIRST regional.

While mentoring is a great way to help one team, perhaps you want to make a bigger impact with FIRST by starting a club in your college that could provide seminars to many teams. ;)

miscall

29-03-2009, 22:47

As a Junior, I'm just starting to really worry about college, but I know one thing for sure: There is no way I am going to give up FIRST. One of the main criteria I have while looking for a school is if they have a connection to FIRST or not. I know that I'm going to have a rough time mentoring and having college, but it can't possibly be any worse than the 12 hours days I'm pulling now. I may have to not go through college with my current 3.9 GPA, but I'm positive the benefits to both myself and the team I'm mentoring will make up for it.

I can't think of going any period of time, yet alone the 4-8 years I'm going to be in college, without FIRST in my life. I'm probably not the only one with this attitude, and I think that is what is driving many of the current college mentors to put themselves through the trials and tribulations of basically having two full time jobs and not getting paid for either.

EricH

29-03-2009, 23:02

As a college sophomore, I bring an interesting perspective. Let me note, there isn't a FIRST team, period, within at least a couple of hours driving time, though there is some interest in having one. Yet, there are 3 FIRST alumni/mentor types at my college.

For the three of us, one is not very involved at this time, at least from what I can see. One mentors a team from here, as I did last year (though I had a longer distance...). As for myself, I confine myself to using CD as my primary means of getting my "FIRST fix", though I did volunteer at a regional over spring break.

FIRST should not be your primary criterion for choosing a college. FIRST is an added bonus. And as for whether or not it'll be worse than 12-hour days, it will be. Maybe not your freshman year, but your sophomore year, if you're an engineering student, is the worst. I'm taking 14 credits (that's 42 hours per week, roughly) and I'm having "fun" getting the work done. My previous years, I took more credits and had fewer problems getting work in. Trust me, it'll be bad.

Instead of FIRST, how about this: keep your ties to FIRST and volunteer during breaks while finding another competition in college. There are plenty of them; I know that my college has 12 competition teams in one group, with many more that aren't as recognized. More are being added.

So go ahead, find something new and different. Branch out a bit. Do College VEX, maybe. Keep your ties to FIRST strong, and when you graduate, come back with more knowledge and help a team.

Molten

30-03-2009, 00:17

For this one, I got to agree with Erich. You really got to consider the college as a whole. As for the involvement with FIRST, you can definitely stay involved regardless of where you go. Whether it is doing like Eric and keeping track on CD or doing what I do(find a team that happens to be nearby) you will have the choice of involvement. Besides, freshmen year is relatively easy if you are a good student and don't become obsessed with partying or anything of the sort. Also, I find it great to pop in on my old team everytime I get a break from school. It's nice to see the familiar faces.

I would definitely suggest a cut back on the level of involvement with FIRST for college. You will not have as much time to do everything you do now. Just checking up on a team once a week and offering a bit of help is a lot of fun and keeps your mind sharp. Being at all the team meetings and having a heavy hand in the design/work, will just lead to undo stress and lower grades. Remember, some candy is good...too much gives you a stomach ache. The same goes with work. I really do enjoy working. But too much just gives me a headache and leaves me exhausted.

Al Skierkiewicz

30-03-2009, 07:29

Ben,
I have to agree with the with Eric & Jason. I know that First is a big part of your life right now and it seems hard to imagine anything without it being part of your daily activity. However, just like other outside interests, it is not the end all of our existence. A wise man once said, "get a job doing something you love and you will never work a day in your life". Plan on your career and college choice to achieve that goal and other things will fall into place on their own. If First is part of that, great. If it is not, there are worse things in life. We are here to prepare you for college and life, not to make you a life long Firster. You will make us proud no matter what path you choose.

Arefin Bari

30-03-2009, 08:04

As a Junior, I'm just starting to really worry about college, but I know one thing for sure: There is no way I am going to give up FIRST.

I told myself the same thing back in fall of 2005. Now I am here and this will probably be my last season with a team for a while until I set my life straight. I am one of those college students who put FIRST before everything.

I hope my post helps you understand how you should make your decision about being involved in FIRST while in college. Throughout the years, I have skipped classes to be in the machine shop (of course I had to stay up nights to make up for school but it's not easy to do so). I have always talked to my professors about being involved in FIRST and they were supportive of it. I have also taken semesters off so I can make some money and be involved with FIRST.

Of course, you can be involved and go to school at the same time; but I would highly suggest to not to be involved 100%. If I could change back anything in the last 4 years; it would be to only work on events I have organized and volunteer at the events.

laurenlacy

03-04-2009, 03:32

I will offer up something that I haven't really seen much of in this thread... that college FIRST programs, when well organized, can actually help you in many ways.

Purdue FIRST Programs has given me some of the best friends, memories, and study buddies I could ever ask for. I think the key is that it is well organized, with professor support and a structure that allows you to find the area you fit in best.

As a freshman in college you will be overwhelmed with choices, I know I was. I would encourage you to go beyond FIRST... I am in Purdue FIRST Programs but I am also a member of a sorority and a member of SWE. But if you can't imagine your life without FIRST you don't have to.

I will echo the comments above--choose a college. If it has a FIRST Program, great. If it doesn't, that's great too. There are so many ways to stay involved, from volunteering at an event over your spring break to being an active member of the CD community.

IF, however, you end up at one of the few colleges that have established FIRST programs, I highly recommend it. My friends from Purdue FIRST are friends I know I will have the rest of my life. Many of us are in Engineering, and we get together and work on homework. There are always older members of the organization who have taken a class you're in, and they can be a treasure trove of information for you.

You will have 20 hour days, you will have all nighters. It does get harder, especially if you pursue an engineering degree. Whatever you choose to do, get involved on campus. Join a club relating to your major so that you can make friends who care about academics. Join a club that doesn't relate to your major so that you can be well rounded. Whatever you do, LOVE it.

AdamHeard

03-04-2009, 03:34

Molten

03-04-2009, 03:57

You will have 20 hour days, you will have all nighters. It does get harder, especially if you pursue an engineering degree. Whatever you choose to do, get involved on campus. Join a club relating to your major so that you can make friends who care about academics. Join a club that doesn't relate to your major so that you can be well rounded. Whatever you do, LOVE it.

My experience is that 20 hour days and all nighters stem from too many curriculum. Honestly, it will be hard. But if you play your cards right, there is no need for this much work. That is of course, if you don't want to. I have friends that can't sleep before a test and pull long hours. However, I work 20 hours a week have about 15 credit hours and still manage to get about 7 hours of sleep and a 3.7 GPA.

PS: I am the first to admit that the number one thing missing on my resume is extracurriculars.

kapolavery

03-04-2009, 04:35

Michael Corsetto

03-04-2009, 05:17

Let me start off by saying I think it's really important to step back your freshman year. College is a completely new experience and don't count out everything it has to offer until you've given it a good hard look. You might find a particular group or club that takes your interest, other than FIRST :ahh:

My Freshman year was one of the best years of my life, and I didn't work in a shop all build season. Didn't scour over the rules. Didn't check CD every five minutes. I did something different, and had a blast.

This sophomore year has been a completely different story. I got in contact with the local FIRST team and started going to their weekly meetings in the fall. It was a lot of fun just getting acquainted with a new team that had such a different student group than my old team had. After doing some (minimal) training and (trying) to get sponsors, the build season rolled around.

This is the only part I regret. I only missed one meeting. The whole 6 weeks. The team met 4 days a week, and I was there every time. Luckily my grades didn't drop, I managed to hold a 3.5, but a lot of the stuff I enjoyed freshman year seemed to drift away. Simply put, I was too involved, and while the robot might have been ever so slightly better because of it, I was not.

I was also a member of the regional planning committee for the Davis regional. If this sounds like the straw that breaks the camels back, it surprisingly was not. I had a great time tele-conferencing in once a month, and then helping the event run smoothly last week. I was the regionals media contact, and was interviewed by at least 10 different news outlets. It was a blast! The low time commitment up to the date of the regional was great for my schedule, and I was still able to play an important role for the event.

After this year's competition has ended, I have a new focus, a goal you could say. I only want to come in once a week during build season next year. My goal is to transfer I as much of my experience to these kids as possible in the next 9 months, so they'll be on autopilot during the build season, with the skills required to get the job done. Its gonna be tough, but in some ways I view these 9 months as my new build season, building up the next generation of engineers... [/cheesy]

JaneYoung

03-04-2009, 08:55

AMEN
yea im a graduating senior.. and the juniors and other advisors are asking whos gonna come back..

its pressuring to come back bc you wanna instill that enthusiasm you had into those underclassmen who are gonna take over the team.

You have already instilled enthusiasm in the underclassmen who will take over the leadership and direction of the team. The team will find a way and adjust to change. You have done your job as a student leader.

The students who graduate and move on into life after high school, take on a new role and that is as a role model of possibilities, opportunities, and facing new challenges. It is a shift away from the role as a senior on the team, sometimes very subtle but very powerful.

Enigma's puzzle

03-04-2009, 09:56

I also am coming from a different place than a lot of you. I am attending community college, to save money by living at home. This particular community college has very little to do Extra extracurricular.

I have started helping my old first team but because i have a job that works almost weeknight i cannot help much but on the weekends or occasionally if i get out early i will go help. Instead i have found a different role on the team that many of the mentors who work a regular first shift day cannot do. I have been picking up materials and parts, and also occasionally dropping them off to get machining. This has brought me back and helping my team in a new and in some cases more important way.

The fact is I have very little actual designing and building experience that cannot be provided to the team by another mentor. (although i would take extensive time absorbing other teams designs at competition, so i can bring back ideas from other teams from previous years, that other mentors cannot recall) But instead i took the one difference that i had over the other mentors, and am using it to provide for the team in a completely different way than our team has ever had.

Bomberofdoom

03-04-2009, 10:49

While in the army and college I'll do my best to find a nearby team and drop by a couple of times to help. I'm thinking that I will be more of a programming/team&project mangment mentor, because I believe those are the areas I touched most in FIRST and will probablly continue in college.
Oh, and training the drive-team too. :)

First year in the army I probablly won't have a lot of free time so I'll do volunteering work for the competition (tech support, field reset, or if given, referee).

Nica F.

03-04-2009, 10:50

As a freshman in college now, I know I don't have much to support whether or not it is a good choice to mentor but I can give my 2 cents on how I made my decision and where I stand today.

I, am still a part of FIRST, I'm not a head mentor nor just a volunteer. I chose to join the FIRST program provided by my university.There is no doubt that everyone who has posted on this thread like D.J., Genia, and Joe have very very important things to consider when deciding whether or not to mentor, and quite honestly I read this thread more than twice and even started a thread (http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/showthread.php?p=674948#post674948) with questions regarding FIRST after high school. It depends on what is right for you, but don't forget that college is a whole different ballpark coming out of high school. Even after reading threads, talking to friends who are alumni, and convincing myself that college is going to be a lot harder (more so as a first year engineering student), I was still shocked at how stressed I was getting in my first semester.

college FIRST programs, when well organized, can actually help you in many ways.

Like Lauren said, there are colleges that have FIRST programs. In fact some may also offer classes that count as college credit just as the Purdue FIRST program does. My first thoughts when I found out that there was a class offered for FIRST; I thought, "Cool, I can stay involved in FIRST and it'll be a class that counts for a couple credits." Which to me was a wonderful thing. If a college does have a FIRST program take Lauren's post and realize that it will be just as fulfilling if not more as it was in HS and can help you out in the future through connections made on a larger scale.

If however there is no program and you're looking for a local team to put under your wing, please please please weigh out your pros and cons and don't go easy on yourself on the cons section just because you love FIRST. We all love FIRST and every senior who leaves the shop for the last time feels like they're leaving a bit of their lives behind. But but just as many said, you dont have to mentor to stay involved. When you need your fill, go and volunteer when it lands on your break, go to kickoff with your old team when you're home for the winter, go on chiefdelphi, and use gameday.

Allison

03-04-2009, 14:28

One thing I do find interesting is the number of Purdue FIRST mentors that have posted here, I believe this speaks well for their program. While I will agree that joining an established program such as PFP is easier than going out on your own, there is still plenty of stress and work involved. One of the largest benefits of an established program, as stated by others is ME 297F, a class offered to FIRST members at Purdue which as an MET major I was able to use for credit toward my degree. I joined PFP when I was a sophomore in college after taking my freshman year to enjoy and adjust to college. I have made some lifelong friends as a college mentor. Here is my hindsight of 2 years mentoring while trying to balance college.

In 2006, one of the Purdue teams was just starting out, even with super stars like Flo that season to help us out, a group of 8 college mentors burned themselves completely out on FIRST only I returned the following year, since then only one other mentor has returned. After a lot of soul searching, I decided to return for that second year with none of my fellow mentors though some great new mentors joined the team that year. I took on a very large role due to lack of a teacher sponsor and everything suffered, while I had found the balance and was able to maintain my GPA that was about it. I was so incredibly stressed out that year and slept so little my body was a wreck by the end of that season. One of the wisest decisions I ever made in both my college and FIRST career was to take my senior year of college off from FIRST and only volunteer at a regional over spring break. I don’t regret my decision to be a college mentor especially when I watched my college team this year win EI at BMR, just the look on their faces and hearing about their best season ever makes me proud.

The kids I mentored as a college student are now seniors in high school and have to make their own decisions this year. Some I believe are up to the challenge of mentoring while others are not, I believe in each of them that they will make the right choice for them.

To all high school seniors and college students looking at mentoring; it is worth all the blood, sweat, and tears but remember you and your future comes first. If you do decided to mentor make sure that you have support and never be afraid to ask for help; that was my biggest mistake trying to do too much myself. Keep in mind that a night off from build season to study for an exam probably won’t mean that the robot doesn’t get done but it could very well be that key night that gets you an A on that test that opens the gateway to your future.

ComradeNikolai

03-04-2009, 15:12

I'm going to college next year after two years in FIRST. I currently plan on mentoring the team, since I played a large part in this season and I don't know who we'll have on the team next year. I hope I can train some people over the summer to do the jobs I performed this year, and I'm confident in the resiliency of the team, which is why I'm going to mentor over the summer and over my Christmas break, then go to the Saturday portion of the Buckeye regional -- mentoring won't interfere with my class work, as much as I want it to.

Joe Matt

14-05-2009, 15:10

I'm back.....

As a Junior, I'm just starting to really worry about college, but I know one thing for sure: There is no way I am going to give up FIRST. One of the main criteria I have while looking for a school is if they have a connection to FIRST or not.

FIRST is a program, an ok program with it's own problems and rewards. And it sounds like your in a relationship with it like a girl. Ever heard of the saying "Everything changes in college" or the concept you NEVER want to go to the same school as your girlfriend? Same thing applies.

Plus, do you love FIRST unconditionally, or do you love your team, the friendships, or other things you can get from other college appropriate programs?

And to throw this in, I know quite a bit about the Purdue FIRST program, and while well laid out, it isn't full of faults and it's own problems. This thread starter was part of Purdue FIRST when he got into problems. And others have done the same. It's more like sun screen, it's protective, but not preventative. Don't sit in the sun too long and ignore your school work or social life.

As for me? Well I'm at my co-op again and resting some and got caught up in the FIRST History thread and decided to pop my head in here....

Siri

22-03-2010, 19:41

As a high school student, I served as my team's captain-manager, pit captain, and lead mechanical and design student (among other roles). I'm currently a freshman mechanical engineering major at Penn State's Schreyer Honors College, and I made the choice to mentor for FIRST in the 2010 season. Not just any team either, but my high school team, which is just over a 7 hour round-trip bus ride every weekend.

I read this thread as a high school senior, and at the time thought 'you know, I should probably take freshman year off from FIRST'. When push came to shove though, I came back. I haven't decided whether it was the best choice, but I certainly don't regret it. By our second and last regional, I'll have logged something like 330 hours and 4,000 miles (not to mention more money than I'd like to calculate on bus tickets). I admit it's certainly limited my extracurricular college experience this term--I've spent a grand total of 1 weekend on campus since mid-December. It also hasn't made studying any easier, especially with 1.5xs the minimum credit load this term (19 semester hours, 13 of them honors; minimum 12). I'm managing to maintain about a 3.9 though, and still take off Fridays for regionals. It's not easy and it might even be a mistake, but--for now, to me--it's worth it.

I don't recommend this course. Not because I don't enjoy or value it (obviously), but because I think the people who truly want and can handle it will do it themselves without any recommendation (I know I did). In my experience, this is something everyone needs to decide for themselves, but realize that academics have to come first. FIRST mentoring won't pay the bills.

Katie_UPS

31-05-2010, 22:40

I'm reviving this to remind 2010 graduates that they should think twice and recognize the change from high school to college.

bam-bam

03-06-2010, 11:04

Lisa Perez

03-06-2010, 13:38

I'm only an a lower class student, but it's OK that you don't have to come every weekend. 1529 had a college student, but he was rarely here, due to homework, etc.

It doesn't matter whenever you're here all the time, you're still contributing to the team anyway.

For all of the college students who do choose to help out on occasion: Although coming to meetings whenever you are most free is easiest, it may make things difficult for those in charge.

If you are still getting acclimated to the college environment and/or you are especially busy, pick only one or two days that work for you during each week of build season. Let the leaders know that they can expect you to be there on those one or two days. It will add consistency to the team, and make it a LOT easier for the leaders to plan for both mentor and student tasks from day to day.

Blackphantom91

20-02-2011, 04:13

I Started my first year of college and am also mentoring a team its a huge balence but I think it all mostly come to who you are and how much you can handle. For me I was able to still continue my studies and mentor with a full load in college pretty well. Although im very glad I came back Ive had alot of fun so far. You really have to know yourself and how much you can handle.

Akash Rastogi

15-04-2011, 01:05

I can't spend my life listening to professors babble through equations full of Greek letters then go home and struggle through books full of stuff that the professor was too lazy to mention. I can take it but I can't drown myself in it. There's got to be more for me. I've got to just go out and build something every once in a while.

reported (spam in sig)

keneajer

28-05-2011, 18:53

I agree with this. My major is TV and Vidoe Perduction and studying for it in Milwaukee, WI. Haveing a job, plus school work and then also doing stuff like
FLL and FRC stuff it. It can be stressfull at time but also is a good thing to be working with people that you know, but sometimes its a good to have fall back on just to and have fun or just go talk to people that have the same intrest as you do. I mentor the team that i been on for 3 years now. This was the first year that I couldn't really help out the team as much as I could in years past, due to project that I have done. Over all I try my hard to stay in contact with the team.

Bethie42

28-05-2011, 21:12

keneajer

29-05-2011, 14:22

I found this thread a year or two ago and really appreciate the advice contained within. I'll be majoring in comp. sci. at a college halfway across the country [LeTourneau U] starting in August and am considering what steps I should take to stay involved with FIRST. FIRST will be in my life no matter what, I just have to decide how and how much.

I'm planning to lay low my first year but am still hoping to keep in touch with my team back in Oregon, help out where I can with organization and so on, mostly in the off-season. You know, the occasional email: 'How's the NASA grant application going? Is recruitment up? Time to book hotels for regionals!' and so on.

I know this could change when I actually get to college and am floundering in coursework, but I have a dream. Longview is a town of ~70 k people, with several public and private high schools, yet there are no FIRST teams in the area. I envision students from LeTourneau [an engineering and aviation college] working as junior mentors to a team based at Longview High School, funded by one of the several manufacturing and technology corporations in Longview, and under the wing of LeTourneau faculty.

I know this is a far-fetched dream, but I have seen so many amazing things happen with FIRST that I think it's possible. Last night I contacted all the STEM teachers at the high school, mentioning the idea and asking what their input it. So far one has responded with interest, and said [to my excitement] that the school had done VEX in the past.

People who know me say that if anyone can mentor a team in college, I can.
This year I started seven FLL teams in my town and mentored two of them. Coaching those FLL kids was one of the most rewarding things I have ever done, if stressful at times. I think this bodes well for my future as an FRC mentor, although I know the difference between starting an FLL and and FRC team is exponential.

My biggest asset to my FRC team has not been technical, even though I was lead programmer this year and loved it; it's leadership, organization and ENTHUSIASM. I'm so far from being burned out on FIRST, it's not even funny, but I think a year off to regroup and plan further schemes to conquer the world through FIRST is a good idea.

Thank you all for your advice.

I wish I have found this tread back when I first strat my program or started college. This was my third year as a mentor and im going back for a fourth but im planning on laying low because Im almost done with school and I would like to move on into my career. I'll still help out with stuff but I know I need to start moving on with life and stuff.

Im a big asst to the team because I been helping them with the chairmans award. Teaching them how to set up a intreiw, pre-pare qestions and how to
frame something corrrtly. One of the things I been leting the team know is that im going to be busy, but some how that happens I allows put stuff to the side and help the team. This year was different year because I had project after project in school and I got it done and all but I wish that I had lay low a year or two. For one of my projects I had to create a half an hour show so I decided to do it on FIRST. Here is the link to it http://youtu.be/7apTSmhGfFI . One thing that this show did it open my eyes to what other teams are doing. After this semseter I was really burnt out from all the projects and robotics but I look what i have done and I think I did a good job. I dont mind helping with stuff or help a student get an event together it he/she needs it.

My best friend and I and his dad where on the same team together. One day I was talking to him about school, friend on the same robotics team. One thing that he say that is that maybe there should be where a rule on the team that you cant come back for one year if your a student going into
a mentor postion because of how close we are to some people on the team (friend and stuff like that). My best friend gose to school out of state but he is still involed in FIRST. As for me FIRST will be close to me im trying to find differnet ways to help FIRST where i am going to be.

Pavan Dave

31-05-2011, 13:14

I wanted to add my 2cents while they are still valid.

I left 118 the Robonauts and as soon as I got to college joined 1745 the P-51 Mustangs. Upon joining I tried my best to manage school and the team but it just wasn't working in my favor so I decided to cut back and focus on the two things that I could do when I was free, and not necessarily every day for the 6 weeks of the build. Those two things I chose were website and Chairman's. Upon taking on these roles I was able to schedule times with the students 1-2 times a week for a few hours, give them 'assignments/tasks' and would review their material when we met next and continued the cycle.

Although I was not able to contribute to the physical robot, that year the P-51 Mustangs took home both the Website and Regional Chairman's awards.

The next season, I thought to myself, "I'm a year wiser" and went gung-ho on FIRST...due to my coursework and work, I ended up throwing in the towel at around the 3-4wk mark and was unable to contribute to team after. This is where I made my decision to help elsewhere where I could. I was contacted about being a web evaluator & adviser and jumped on and have continued over the past two years.

The moral of my story being, don't bite more than you can chew. I don't care if you participate in robotics during college your freshman year, just understand two things. 1. You do not only let down yourself, but your team. They relied on you, and you screwed it up if you can't handle it, and most importantly 2. getting your GPA good after screwing up costs money, takes up more time, and will put more stress on your mind then you can imagine.

TL;DR.
Someone once told me, "A smart man learns from his own mistakes, but a wise man learns from the smart man's mistakes."

Pavan

.

elemental

31-05-2011, 20:16

Hi,
I am graduating this year and I would like your input. Instead of pursuing mentorship, I am interested in becoming a website award judge. Would this be a plausible position to apply for as a freshman?
Thanks!

Andrew Schreiber

31-05-2011, 20:27

buildmaster5000

13-09-2011, 22:43

^^ reported

LemmingBot

11-01-2012, 10:09

GaryVoshol

11-01-2012, 12:34

Are you a rules geek? Then ref would be a good choice to try.

But, all refs were supposed to have been selected by Dec. 30. Contact your regional volunteer coordinator to see if they still need someone.

JamesBrown

11-01-2012, 12:58

I would really love to stay connected with FIRST during college, it has been such a wonderful experience for me and I want to prolong it. Since my school of choice is close to Boston (in Worcester, by WPI) I know that their is probably going to be a regional their I would like to volunteer.

There is a regional in Worcester at WPI, if your school is in Worcester (Clark, Holy Cross, Assumption, Becker etc.) then this would be the closest regional.

The Boston regional has been held at the Agganis Arena you can get there relatively easily through a combination of Commuter rail and the T.

Manchester and Hartford are both ~1.5 hrs from Worcester and are pretty easy drives, I would also imagine that musses to either city are available from the train station.

My advice would be to get in touch with WPI when you get to Worcester, they have a very active students, faculty, and community volunteers that run all sorts of FIRST programs in the area, they would be able to put you in touch with the right people to volunteer at whatever level you want to. Coleen Shaver (she is on CD as ColleenShaver) is probably the woman to contact for all things FIRST in the Worcester Area. Libby Kamen (Libby K on CD) is probably the person to talk to in Boston, I believe she is the volunteer coordinator for the regional.

ehochstein

11-01-2012, 14:12

Karibou

11-01-2012, 19:42

What would be the best position for me to volunteer as? Is a ref a reasonable goal?
It depends on what you like doing. Do you like working with teams? Go for queuing. If you're a rules geek, as GaryVoshol said, ref would be a good choice, but you may not be able to become one this late in the game. If you're like me and have a lot of energy, field reset is a lot of fun (and is what a lot of younger volunteers choose to do), plus you still get to see all of the matches.

Aur0r4

19-01-2012, 11:27

Having gone through this, I see some valid points in most of the posts, although I'll try to add something instead of being the "I agree with everyone" guy :]

I went to college 50mins from home and commuted. I hadn't planned on staying on my team (despite loving it so much) due to both schedule and wondering if there was a place for a college student, kind of echoing some of Ken's concerns way back in the thread. However, my team approached me in 2006 (my freshman year at UNH) and asked me to come back and help them with the vision system, since I had jumped in over my head with that on the Tetra year trying to get Labview to run on a PC on the robot. Yeah, that was legal before we made it not :-)

I have been a mentor ever since, and now I'm a finishing grad student with five years in heavy construction. Its been very hard to find the time, but for me, it was worth it. You do have to prioritize and there are places I wish I had spent more time on my grades than on FIRST. And if you think that is hard, try getting married :) Being a newlywed college student new job mentor is pretty tough! But prioritizing, time management, and being intelligent with your resources really helps you get the most out of all of it.

I do want to strongly encourage anyone who is in college and thinks they can handle it to DO IT. The more time I spend in the "real world", the more I realize that the FIRST experience and mentality is desperately needed in the professional world. The "real world" is plagued by a lack of vision, a crippling fear of failure, and the ever-present "box" that most people can't seem to cut their way out of with a torch. It sinks innovation and is the reason we are falling behind. Other countries don't have some of those issues with their engineers and builders, and they're leaving us in the dust.

FIRST forces you to work with people of very different skill levels, and for a college student that involves both engineers who know way more than you and students who know way less. You want to build character? Try mentoring in that environment. You will learn pretty quickly that humility, initiative, and care for people is alot harder than you think, and its lacking in our workplaces. Being a mentor in college has benefited me far more than being a FIRST student, and is the reason I am (admittedly) doing very well professionally and regarded as a can-do problem solver willing to tackle and learn anything. Those are things I learned through hard work in FIRST, and has changed me as an engineer. That little mental hurdle at trying new things that you have to get over as a student will come in real handy when you're on a steel beam over a river, there's a technical problem, and its time to cowboy up and get the job done! Engineering can be exhilarating, and I learned that through FIRST.

Long story short, be responsible, but be a mentor! You won't regret it! Even if you fail, you'll learn something!

Darrellenior

02-04-2012, 01:41

I agree it can be difficult, with mentoring in the academic world to compensate, and I agree that academics should come first. It's a good idea wherever you go, the first semester (or first year) to take to handle the program and what you can before you get involved in something to understand ** - including clubs, sports and First.

But that said, not coaching as a student can really paid off. In technology, especially, it gives you a lot of perspective. Engineering is sometimes based on the theory exaggerated and it is easy to lose sight of what really is - design, teamwork, production, testing, all the things we have learned with fun. And it's incredibly important to the side of "learning", where you really understand something of the equation to explain to someone else.

techhelpbb

06-04-2012, 23:59

http://www.tenouk.com/learningretentionrate.html

There's something to be said for communicating. In engineering and science if you ever hope to interface with people outside of your field you'll find that you need to be able to not just understand, but share your ideas with other people that might not share your grasp or interest in the details.

Of course, rushing your education has much the same consequences as rushing what you teach. Life is about balance and it's a pretty much a full time job to maintain that balance.

The very first time I mentored I was just finishing up my time as a full time student. At the time the most positive thing I had in my life beyond my family and friends was being a mentor. I never bothered to return to school as a full time student and I probably will not, though I continue my education with classes here and there. This being communicated I have been quite successful in my career both as a business person and as an employee.

Seek the balance that's right for you. The strength of all communities, including FIRST, is the diversity of the members.

gabrielau23

14-04-2013, 22:12

As a junior in high school, I'm SO glad I found this sticky thread. Right now, I am planning to go to colleges that are all in-state since I have no desire whatsoever to move out of state. However, I realize as I read this thread that if I'm going to go back to my old team (it would be really easy) once I get into college I'm going to have to change my perspective on lots of stuff. So far, it looks like I'm considering volunteering as an inspector at an event or two. Maybe I'll visit the team every once in a while, but no getting involved until after I get out of college.

Oblarg

29-04-2013, 22:17

Honestly, as a college mentor I'd like to weigh in on this:

This semester, I took a lighter courseload than usual so that I could act in a serious mentoring role for FRC Team 4464. The team was in great need of help, and I felt an obligation to do so. And the experience has been far more valuable than any college course I have ever taken, bar none. Yes, it has been inconvenient as far as classes are concerned; it probably will have had an impact on my grades, and it certainly has had an impact on the amount of stress in my life. Knowing all this, though, I would not have chosen to act otherwise if I could do it again. Not even close. The amount of good that this opportunity has provided, both for me and for those I can help to teach, is more than anything else I've experienced in my life.

If the ultimate result is that I need to take longer to graduate, then so be it. For me, it's not even a question if that's a worthy trade-off. Being a mentor in FRC, I can make a real difference in the lives of a large number of people. I can learn more mentoring a FRC team than I can in any course. I wholly intend to schedule my course load for the remainder of my college education around my FRC mentoring obligations, and I have absolutely no reservations about it.

CENTURION

29-04-2013, 23:50

Since this thread has been bumped, I guess I'll chime in with my story. (There's a TL;DR farther down though too)

I started FRC in late 2009 (Just after the build/competition season ended) as a senior in High School. And, as Wooide Flowers puts it, I "caught the bug", and was totally hooked. So when I took a year off after high school, I basically just worked part time and did FRC.

I started school again in 2011, with 17 credits a semester in a technical college course in machine tool. I kept on working part time, and doing FRC as sort of a Junior Mentor. As you can imagine, this made my schedule very tight, but really, the stress was manageable, I just got used to spending almost no time at home besides sleeping (if that :rolleyes:)

Now on to 2012-2013. I kept on doing all the same stuff; 17 credits, part time work, and FRC. But then, In late 2012, I picked up an FTC team. We had a couple of students at a local high school who wanted to start a team, and reached out to BadgerBOTS, needing a mentor. A mentor (the kind of mentor you should be careful around because he'll convince you to do something crazy) thought I would be good for the role.

So, being in too good of a mood to be safely making sound decisions, I said yes.

So there I was, 17 credits, working part-time, and mentoring FRC and FTC. Eventually, the stress from all of that did end up getting to me. I didn't have any time to myself. If I wasn't at school or work I was working with FTC because that season was in full swing. And then there was the overlap between the FRC and FTC seasons which made it even crazier.

I had a bit of a multi-day breakdown, where I considered dropping the FTC team, or dropping the work (I was living at home, so didn't strictly need the money). But after a bit of that, I got a hold of myself, and pulled it together. I had committed to doing these things, and I had to see them through.

Just before our regional, (and the end of the FTC season) I ended up leaving my job for an unrelated reason, and things got much easier. But then I started putting in many more hours per week for FRC.

TL;DR: Mentored FRC and FTC while working part time and running a full class load in college, went crazy for a while, but made it through.

Mentoring while in school is tough. But honestly, it is doable.

That all said, 1306 has since put in a rule that students can't come back to mentor until after their first year of college, so they can acclimate to college life, and then figure out how to juggle FRC and school.

Overall, I'm glad I did keep on mentoring during school. It taught me a lot about time management, responsibility, and keeping myself sane :eek:

But I can totally understand that some people may not have the tolerance for stress that I do.

I would like to say though, that if you plan to come back and mentor, make sure you really have something to pass on to the students. Sure the basic FRC knowledge you get from being a student will help some of the newer kids on the team, but it takes a lot more than that to be a mentor. I can honestly say that I've come a very long way from how I was when I started "mentoring" just a couple years ago. There is a much bigger changeover from student to mentor than you think.

ehochstein

30-04-2013, 00:00

It seems that people named Evan have the crazy bug. Centurion's story is surprisingly similar to mine and we both happen to be named Evan.

Back in 2008 I helped start my FRC team (2470) as a student in my Sophomore year. I graduated in 2010 as the president of the team and haven't been able to leave since.

I initially came back as a mentor for 2470 in 2011 and continued that into 2012. During 2010 and 2011 I was attending my local community college and I took the spring semester of 2012 off because I decided to transfer to Dunwoody College of Technology.

This meant I also had a ton of extra time to mentor during the spring of 2012, I ended up joining 2470's sister team, 3081 as a mentor as well to foster a relationship between the two teams.

That year the lead mentor/coach of 2470 resigned so I ended up in the position of lead mentor/coach.

I also worked on starting a joint FTC team between both 3081 and 2470. I became coach of this team as well, Erector Sets Gone Mad #5943.

My first semester at Dunwoody (Going for Electrical Engineering) this past fall was incredibly stressful, not only was I mentoring three FIRST teams but I was also taking 19 credits. I ended up giving all of my free time to robotics, in fact my entire life was pretty much robotics and STEM. At this point I like to think I entered a new phase in my life, I felt a need to re-image myself. I had fully realized my passion for FIRST and robotics.

I decided to start GOFIRST at Dunwoody, based off of GOFIRST at the University of Minnesota. I also started networking with other teams in the area (much thanks to FSM Renee Becker), helping create a strong team of mentors in my area. My goal is to create a higher level of competition in Minnesota, causing all teams to improve.

I have also been a software intern for General Dynamics Advanced Information Systems since 2011, helping create a strong partnership for 2470.

To any graduating seniors, please be careful before you decide to mentor your team. Discuss with the mentors on your team and ask them what they think. If they believe it is appropriate go for it but if they say no please respect their decision as it is very hard to transfer from student to mentor. My first year as a mentor was spent learning from other mentors on my team, I was still pretty much a student.

TL;DR: Right now I am the "Senior Technical Mentor/Coach" for 2470, I mentor 3081 and have been asked to take the coach position, I coach FTC #5943, I am president and founder of GOFIRST at Dunwoody, I am currently have an internship at General Dynamics Advanced Information Systems (2470's primary sponsor) and I am attending college for 19 credits per semester. Let's just say I am glad FIRST is my passion and social life.

I was extremely lucky to have the students on 2470 write a Woodie Flowers essay for me this year, I received the award at 10K Lakes. You can read the submission here. (https://docs.google.com/document/d/1Vp1pn64FT-evidWsSI8LNeyPN-ePvXx9nMMs-NBgt-A/edit?usp=sharing)

CENTURION

30-04-2013, 10:19

It seems that people named Evan have the crazy bug. Centurion's story is surprisingly similar to mine and we both happen to be named Evan.

Must be!

Thanks for sharing your story, we do seem a lot alike :D

Karibou

30-04-2013, 16:44

TL;DR: Right now I am the "Senior Technical Mentor/Coach" for 2470, I mentor 3081 and have been asked to take the coach position, I coach FTC #5943, I am president and founder of GOFIRST at Dunwoody, I am currently have an internship at General Dynamics Advanced Information Systems (2470's primary sponsor) and I am attending college for 19 credits per semester. Let's just say I am glad FIRST is my passion and social life.
Kudos to you, man. That's a lot on your plate and it sounds like you're handling it pretty well.

From an alternate perspective, I've been at 16 or 17 credits for the past two years of college, and I can't imagine myself having the time to mentor a team as well. Granted, I've chosen to take part in other activities within the school that also take up significant amounts of time, but they don't cause nearly as much concentrated stress as build season. I could have chosen to mentor teams here, and I'm sure I could have adapted to the challenge and workload, but I don't think it would have been the best choice for me. For now, I'm content with volunteering when I'm able to (which is not nearly as much as I would like) so that I can stay involved with FIRST, but still pursue other things.

So, your mileage may vary. You're not obligated to mentor as a college student: there are other ways to stay involved, if you want to. If you want to, great! But there's no pressure.

Alex2614

30-04-2013, 21:03

I must say it was much easier for me since I am mentoring the team that I was on all 4 years in high school (starting from its rookie year) and living at home. Despite all this, I STILL find my grades needing a little work and find myself having a hard time balancing my commitments to other organizations. I am in the marching band for WVU, and still actively involved in scouting. However, despite everything, I still have to find time for FIRST. It's extremely difficult, but it still happens.

Essentially what I'm trying to say is that if you have the passion and drive to mentor a team, it is possible. But don't think it's going to be a piece of cake. Like I said, I'm probably in one of the easier mentoring situations for a college student and I still have trouble keeping up.

Steven Donow

20-11-2013, 22:45

Hate bumping old threads, but an incredibly rude comment made to me today has had me up in arms/my mind racing, and I couldn't think of a major discussion topic enough to warrant a new thread.

I was told today, by a fellow college student (albeit one who is going for his postbaccalaurete/masters; his first degree in engineering) that, as opposed to mentoring a FIRST team in college (which I plan on) I should "do something real with my life, like SailBot"(or concrete canoe or Baja SAE or one of the many other engineering extracurriculars my school offers).

Now, obviously, I know how absurd/rude/ridiculous that comment was, and normally I shake off stuff like that and don't let it get to me, but it's really got me thinking: Outside of the idea of being a mentor (in the educational/inspirational sense) what does mentoring a FIRST team in college have that other college extracurriculars don't?

Alex2614

20-11-2013, 22:56

Outside of the idea of being a mentor (in the educational/inspirational sense) what does mentoring a FIRST team in college have that other college extracurriculars don't?

I don't think there is much to say outside of CHANGING LIVES.

But you are also gaining educational experience. I don't care what field you go into, teaching/mentoring experience is extremely valuable. Not to mention the fact that, even though you are one of the mentors, you are still getting to work with real professionals in the field, rather than just professors or grad students. If I was an employer, I would rather see you volunteering your time to a community organization that helps to change lives everywhere (particularly if you are involved in outreach, starting teams, etc. like I am) that still somewhat relates to your career field OVER something like a collegiate robotics team. Mentoring a FIRST team is COMPLETELY different than participating in a collegiate robotics team. It also would look great to me that you are dedicating yourself to an organization and a group of students that you love, rather than just doing something to advance your career. You participated on a team in high school. Now it's time to LEAD. That brings me to the last point I have. Just like FIRST provides tremendous leadership experience for participants, it also provides this opportunity for college students as well. As an employer, again, that is much more valuable than the participation experience. Now, I could be completely off, and excuse my late-night incomprehensiveness.

That being said, there is nothing saying that you can't mentor a FIRST team AND do something else (I am currently involved in a number of student and community orgs). It is entirely possible, and I would encourage you to do so.

Alan Anderson

21-11-2013, 11:33

Outside of the idea of being a mentor (in the educational/inspirational sense) what does mentoring a FIRST team in college have that other college extracurriculars don't?

Your fellow college student has it halfway right. Participating in those other engineering activities is certainly doing something real with your life. But what he's missing is the fact that mentoring a FIRST team lets you do something real with many other people's lives.

SailBot et al provide you with experience. So does mentoring, but of a completely different kind. However, mentoring isn't for you. It's for the others.

Christopher149

21-11-2013, 12:18

Ooh, story time. So, after being on an FLL team in elementary and middle school, I joined 857 and was there for the four years of high school. Then, I went to Michigan Tech for college, and started right away mentoring the team. So, freshman year I'm taking 17 credits spring semester, mentoring, and have a part-time job in the MathLab, and 4.0 my classes. Basically same thing sophomore year. Now this, my *more-or-less* junior year (the dual-enrollment and internship make it complicated) I am now lead mentor, but I'm looking to only take 16 credits. Out of that, I overall have a 3.98, and I've had an internship running from May through this December.

Kudos to you, man. That's a lot on your plate and it sounds like you're handling it pretty well.

From an alternate perspective, I've been at 16 or 17 credits for the past two years of college, and I can't imagine myself having the time to mentor a team as well. [snip]

<humor>*shakes fist* We go to the same university, so why do I only know you on ChiefDelphi?</humor>

Hate bumping old threads, but an incredibly rude comment made to me today has had me up in arms/my mind racing, and I couldn't think of a major discussion topic enough to warrant a new thread.

I was told today, by a fellow college student (albeit one who is going for his postbaccalaurete/masters; his first degree in engineering) that, as opposed to mentoring a FIRST team in college (which I plan on) I should "do something real with my life, like SailBot"(or concrete canoe or Baja SAE or one of the many other engineering extracurriculars my school offers).[snip]

I swear, whenever we try to get someone to join as a mentor here who is in college, if they say "no", this is exactly the reason they give. Not necessarily those specific programs, but to go and "improve themselves" or "go do real things".

TL;DR: Mentoring in college is not hard for me, but your mileage may vary.

PS. 857 and 2586 are essentially exclusively mentored by college students. We've gotten flak in the past for it, but the way I look at it is, even though the team suffers from perpetually being about 4 years old, we won't crumple if that one coach/teacher/mentor/engineer decides to retire.

PPS. Also, last year, 857 had three college student mentors who had all been on 857 in high school.

Oblarg

25-11-2013, 00:32

Now, obviously, I know how absurd/rude/ridiculous that comment was, and normally I shake off stuff like that and don't let it get to me, but it's really got me thinking: Outside of the idea of being a mentor (in the educational/inspirational sense) what does mentoring a FIRST team in college have that other college extracurriculars don't?

Last year, I helped a loose collection of high-schoolers with no prior engineering experience at all go from disorganized meetings in a college community center to a functioning team with a robot that was able to hold its own at competition, and which made it to worlds. Several students are now planning to pursue careers in engineering.

That experience was more valuable for me (and, I hope, for the students) than anything I have done before in my life (and I also work on projects that I think even that guy would consider "real" (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mjOWpwbnmTw)).

So, yeah, don't let it get to you. FIRST is important, it is rewarding, and it is every bit as "real" as any other extracurricular you could participate in. It's one thing to hear Dean Kamen talk about "changing culture re: STEM" in a vacuum, where it sounds (admittedly) cheesy and overblown. It's another thing to participate in it, and realize that he's right: FIRST works. It worked for me, and it certainly seems to be working for the students on the teams I'm mentoring. It would not work without mentors.

As mentioned a few posts earlier, "changing lives" isn't just a couple of impressive-sounding words, it's very much a real result of what you do as a mentor on a FIRST team.

Libby K

25-11-2013, 11:57

(snipped)

I was told today, by a fellow college student (albeit one who is going for his postbaccalaurete/masters; his first degree in engineering) that, as opposed to mentoring a FIRST team in college (which I plan on) I should "do something real with my life, like SailBot"(or concrete canoe or Baja SAE or one of the many other engineering extracurriculars my school offers).

(snip)

Outside of the idea of being a mentor (in the educational/inspirational sense) what does mentoring a FIRST team in college have that other college extracurriculars don't?

I don't like the way he said it, but ...

I think when he said 'something real' he probably meant something DIFFERENT. Having new experiences is a really good thing. That doesn't make FIRST any less of a real, valuable, and enriching experience, but the idea of doing 'something else' with your time while you have so many opportunities in front of you isn't a bad suggestion.

I mentored in college, and continue to mentor as a graduate student. However, I always make sure to have some 'me' time to do something that interests me that ISN'T FIRST. (Yes, somehow it's possible that something in my life isn't connected to FIRST). Having a diverse set of experiences and new things to draw from is a very good thing.

Make sure you have a 'you' outside of FIRST. This community will be here when you get back. It's perfectly okay not to stay hyper-involved during your college years.

KrazyCarl92

26-11-2013, 11:25

Outside of the idea of being a mentor (in the educational/inspirational sense) what does mentoring a FIRST team in college have that other college extracurriculars don't?

The opportunity to be a role model right away for young people at a critical point in their lives. Being a positive role model to the high school students that I work closely with is something that I strive for. If the students say "I want to be like him/her", and that is a positive influence on them, then clearly that mentor is doing something right. Not sure that can happen so directly through any of the other activities listed.

However as Libby mentions, balance is critical. Doing well with respect to your own standards in school and pursuing other activities that you enjoy are critical to being a positive role model. A mentor who fails all their classes in college in order to mentor and doesn't honor commitments to other things they enjoy can be a negative influence on a team and its students more than anything. They could better contribute as an alumni who chooses to prioritize grades and other commitments above FIRST involvement, then going on to become a leader in STEM and mentoring a FIRST team later on.

Different strokes for different folks, there is no one size fits all answer and just like designing a robot or developing a strategy for FRC, prioritization and awareness of one's abilities/resources are vital.

Oblarg

28-05-2014, 05:11

Well, scratch another year of balancing FRC mentoring (for two teams) and university classes. Here are some thoughts, in case anyone might find them helpful/informative/interesting.

This one was significantly more stressful/difficult than the last: I took five classes rather than four, including what is regarded as the most difficult undergraduate math course at our university (Galois theory). Both teams combined, I spent about 40 hours per week on robotics for a large chunk of the semester, as opposed to 20-25 last year, and was in a far more crucial role on 4464 than previously. After build season ended, I missed a total of 9 days of class due to traveling to competitions.

The results were very good. Both 449 and 4464 were the strongest they've ever been; the latter reached worlds for the second time in two years and played an important role on the winning alliance at the DC Regional. In terms of academics, I managed nothing below a B, and an A in the hardest course I took. My grades took a hit from what they would have been, but it wasn't disastrous.

That said, I would not do this semester again in the same way if given the choice. It's far too much, and no results are worth that much stress. I implore anyone who intends to mentor as a college student to hedge either their participation on the team or their academic workload during the spring semester. After the last day of build season, I essentially slept through three days of classes. I did the same after spending the entirety of my spring break working on the practice bot. I cannot imagine that the amount of exertion was healthy, nor the unending state of stress that lasted for essentially the whole semester.

Perhaps the most telling moment was, when asked by a parent of one of 4464's students how I manage to keep up with all the class I've missed and time I've invested into robotics, my honest answer was that I didn't. I managed as best I could in the time I did have in class, and as it happens that ended up being good enough to learn most of the material and receive acceptable grades. That is not a healthy approach to college, and I do not wish to repeat it.

I will not say that you should not mentor as a college student, or even that you should not be in serious mentoring position with a large amount of responsibility as a student; I have gotten a huge amount out of my participation in FIRST after graduating. I will say that you must be wise about your own limitations and the amount of work you take on. Err on the side of caution; having come frighteningly close to burnout this year, I can say with a fair amount of confidence that you don't want to suffer the consequences of getting it wrong.

Joe Matt

04-08-2014, 22:17

Joseph Smith

05-08-2014, 11:07

Did a quick post on selling shirts, so I wanted to pop my head in here and tell all the new freshman to NOT do FIRST freshman year of college. Grow, expand, learn, then come back when you can offer something new.

I have to argue that a blanket statement like this is unwise. Everyone's situation is different. I graduated from High School in 2013 and after a year of classes at Kettering University I know I made the right choice to mentor this past season. One of the reasons I chose a B-section schedule (school in April-June and October-December and work in January-March and July-September) was so that I would be able to mentor my team during my work term. It was tiring, going from work to robotics then straight to sleep when I got home, but it was worth it. My team was very influential to me during high school and I want to make sure as many kids as possible get as much out of it as I did.

Joe Matt

05-08-2014, 22:44

I have to argue that a blanket statement like this is unwise. Everyone's situation is different. I graduated from High School in 2013 and after a year of classes at Kettering University I know I made the right choice to mentor this past season. One of the reasons I chose a B-section schedule (school in April-June and October-December and work in January-March and July-September) was so that I would be able to mentor my team during my work term. It was tiring, going from work to robotics then straight to sleep when I got home, but it was worth it. My team was very influential to me during high school and I want to make sure as many kids as possible get as much out of it as I did.

Of course it's a blanket statement! I truly believe the experiences and mistakes made going out away from FIRST for a few years will reap benefits for the team and yourself.

Also, sorry I can't stop but thinking of songs from Book of Mormon when seeing your user name. ;)

Alex2614

06-08-2014, 14:06

Did a quick post on selling shirts, so I wanted to pop my head in here and tell all the new freshman to NOT do FIRST freshman year of college. Grow, expand, learn, then come back when you can offer something new.

I've said this before, and I'll say it again. I don't know what I would have done if I didn't mentor FIRST. Granted, my situation was different, as I was on the team in the rookie year, and have worked through high school to expand FIRST in the area, and I was going to college at the sponsoring university of the team (I grew up in the college town). It helped keep some consistency and stability in my ever-changing life in college.

I treated it like any other organization. I stayed involved in scouting (even joined a group for scouting at the college level), I joined the marching band at WVU, and I stayed involved in FIRST. It's just like joining any other organization at the university.

However, I know a lot of FIRST mentors that have said the same. Some folks do really well mentoring FIRST in the freshman year. Some don't. It depends on the situation, and the person. But I know personally and for many of my friends that are college mentors, we know that we would have been lost without FIRST, and we wouldn't really be able to stay away anyway. ;)

... You can grow, learn, and expand while also being involved in FIRST.

Akash Rastogi

06-08-2014, 14:34

Of course it's a blanket statement! I truly believe the experiences and mistakes made going out away from FIRST for a few years will reap benefits for the team and yourself.

Stayed out of mentoring FRC for a while now. Honestly could not be happier with my decision. It's amazing how much you realize you miss out on while being a dedicated mentor during build season.

Joseph Smith

06-08-2014, 15:57

Stayed out of mentoring FRC for a while now. Honestly could not be happier with my decision. It's amazing how much you realize you miss out on while being a dedicated mentor during build season.

I know exactly what I'm missing out on during build season. A little bit of sleep, lots of time on Netflix and maybe some exercise. On the other hand, if I chose not to mentor, I would miss out on some of the greatest experiences of my life, and the opportunity to help new team members get as much out of the program as I did.

Chris is me

06-08-2014, 16:31

I know exactly what I'm missing out on during build season. A little bit of sleep, lots of time on Netflix and maybe some exercise. On the other hand, if I chose not to mentor, I would miss out on some of the greatest experiences of my life, and the opportunity to help new team members get as much out of the program as I did.

It's easy to say you would just spend "lots of time on Netflix" if you didn't mentor a team, but you're totally missing his point. College is one of the best times in your life to try new things, meet new people, and challenge yourself in different ways. If you're putting aside all that college has to offer to try and mentor a team in college, you're missing out on these opportunities. Or worse, you try and juggle robotics + regular extracurricular activities and your grades suffer as a result.

I agree with Joe Matt, despite being a college mentor my freshman year. If I had to give general advice to students in FRC, knowing little about their situation, I would suggest a year off of full time mentoring. Mentors are different than students, and six months into college isn't a ton of time to learn, grow, and gain the life experience an adult mentor has.

All of that said, I know some people that mentor in college who can handle the responsibility, and maintain an active presence in campus extracurricular, AND get pretty good grades. These people are the exception to the rule and certainly don't need my advice. The majority of students, even the students who could do it in high school!!!, are going to struggle with this. So I'm not trying to say you specifically shouldn't mentor, but that I agree with the general advice.

I know how it is. Giving up FRC is extremely hard because frankly, at that time in your life there's not a lot else going on that feels so meaningful. For many FRC becomes part of their identity. But before you can be a really effective mentor, you have to grow up. It's hard to say I regret all of the choices that put me where I am today, but if I could do it again, I would have stuck to the sidelines and helped in a much smaller way for my first years. I wasn't ready.

Katie_UPS

06-08-2014, 16:34

I know exactly what I'm missing out on during build season. A little bit of sleep, lots of time on Netflix and maybe some exercise. On the other hand, if I chose not to mentor, I would miss out on some of the greatest experiences of my life, and the opportunity to help new team members get as much out of the program as I did.

Your signature says you were a mentor for one year, so good job on getting past your first year.

College gets harder, and college is really really important. You aren't paying a lot of money to play FIRST. You are paying a lot of money to get the most out of your classes.

I've mentored for three years, and each year it gets worse. My first year it was fine, but I was a knowledge-less mentor. My second year, between robots and some other things, I had to drop two classes. Now I'm a semester behind. My third year I was a "mentor" but I wasn't around enough to become someone meaningful for my students, because I actually put school first.

And honestly, college kids don't always make the best mentors. We shouldn't make good mentors. We should be too devoted to school to give up that much time a week to be a full-time mentor. For the first half of college, we don't even know that much and are just super-high-school-seniors when it comes to robotics knowledge. We can't give that extra incite that defines a mentor from an older student.

I'm sure you, and others, are blowing off my comment because "I am not you and I will do it better". Like others said, if you can, great. But don't lie to yourself, and don't ruin your college experience because of it.

Kimmeh

06-08-2014, 17:05

I've mentored for three years, and each year it gets worse. My first year it was fine, but I was a knowledge-less mentor. My second year, between robots and some other things, I had to drop two classes. Now I'm a semester behind. My third year I was a "mentor" but I wasn't around enough to become someone meaningful for my students, because I actually put school first.

I'm a mentor in name only and have been for the last four years. I'm still considered an official part of the team, and I support the team at competitions, but right now, my role has actually served more as a minion to one of our mentors than as an actual mentor to students. He runs ideas by me, and I'll take care of some of the more behind-the-scenes or off-season related activities.

I try to make a point to make it to Kickoff (where I help lead brainstorming afterwards), at least one meeting where I remind everyone about scholarships and it's where we get the group input for Woodie Flowers, and then competitions. For awards and such, I'm in email/text communication with the students that are in charge of that. If I make it to another meeting, that's great. If not, I wasn't expected anyways.

Most of us who tell you not to mentor in college truly have your best interests at heart. And we're not telling you to not be involved with FIRST while you're in college. But it really does need to take a back seat to what you're studying.

And for Kettering B-section students especially: I know how much free time you have on work term. Yes, you're not in class and can mentor more freely than you can on school term. But you could also use this time to pick up a hobby or learn something you didn't have time to do over school term. Take advantage of student discounts. (For instance, there's swing dancing groups in Ann Arbor that offer discounts to students. Go take a lesson. Or five.) Meet other people. Use this time to become a "more well rounded person". You need to come before robotics.

cadandcookies

06-08-2014, 17:12

It's also important to note that staying involved with FIRST does not mean you have to mentor a team. Most areas are looking for volunteers, and there are a number of ways to help teams in your area without beong a full time mentor-- for example, most teams are always looking for people to run their Chairman's presentations by.

Volunteering or generally experiencing FIRST outside of the context of a team are valuable-- not just from a "bringing something to the team," but also for gaining a broader perspective and expanding your personal network.

Akash Rastogi

06-08-2014, 17:46

I know exactly what I'm missing out on during build season. A little bit of sleep, lots of time on Netflix and maybe some exercise. On the other hand, if I chose not to mentor, I would miss out on some of the greatest experiences of my life, and the opportunity to help new team members get as much out of the program as I did.

That's great for you. (I'm not being sarcastic). It becomes pretty easy to be content with things you're comfortable with, and not everyone regrets missing out on more than just a few higher grades, sleep, and the occasional episode of House of Cards. However, most college mentors I've met (including myself) sort of regretted missing out on important relationships and occasions because they were so heavily invested in FRC. You would miss out on teaching that group of students who will maybe be on the team for 4 years, but new students will still be there for you to inspire and teach when you're done with college. FRC will always be there, but college doesn't always last too long. I'm not totally sure if me preaching that you can always experience those "greatest experiences" later on in FRC hits home.

Just remember how much more there is to college than academic life, sleep, and heck, even Netflix :p . Every semester will pass by you quickly. I learned pretty quickly that, after a season of mentoring, you start regretting missing events and people because you didn't make time for them. As Chris said, there's people who are truly exceptional and can be incredibly well-rounded. They can have a meaningful college experience outside of the classroom, as well as outside of mentoring. I guess my point doesn't just pertain to students who want to mentor in college; this rings true for any college student. It's easy to mentor because it's an environment you're comfortable with and are happy with. You know you'll love it because you're passionate about it. Meeting a different variety of people and being involved in so much more than FIRST can be just as, if not more, meaningful to you if you give things a try. Being immersed in FIRST definitely becomes a part of who you are, but leave yourself space and time to explore new things you can identify yourself with.

As a legend once said:
http://i.imgur.com/Jn41sKI.gif

Basel A

06-08-2014, 19:10

These considerations should also take into account team expectations. For example, in 2011 as a student, I put in 30+ hours a week. As a college mentor, there's no way I would've been able to do that. My team's typical mentor has a time input closer to 15 hours a week, which is comparable to a single additional class (albeit a difficult one). For me, that was very doable.

You can try to schedule extracurriculars around FRC mentoring. Many of these activities have seasons in similar ways to FRC. Look for design competitions with the main competition in the fall or early winter, or simply do more in the fall while stepping back in the winter. It should be possible to accomplish (I'm attempting this approach in the coming school year).

For anyone, being a responsible college student and dedicated FRC mentor will require thought, organization, and expectation management, but I really think it's achievable for most committed FRC alumni.

Joseph Smith

07-08-2014, 08:40

It's easy to say you would just spend "lots of time on Netflix" if you didn't mentor a team, but you're totally missing his point. College is one of the best times in your life to try new things, meet new people, and challenge yourself in different ways. If you're putting aside all that college has to offer to try and mentor a team in college, you're missing out on these opportunities. Or worse, you try and juggle robotics + regular extracurricular activities and your grades suffer as a result.

I guess I didn't really make it clear that my situation is not quite the typical college schedule. At Kettering, we rotate every three months between school and work. With my schedule, I have school from October-December, work from January-March, school April-June, and work July-September. This means that during the entire build season and the first few weeks of competition season, I'm living at home and working full time at a co-op job. During build season I go to work, go right from work to robotics, then go home. Sure, I get less sleep then I'd like, but it doesn't affect my work. When the work term ends and I go back to school, I'm not involved in the team at all for those three months, just going to competitions on the weekends to watch. I agree wholeheartedly that mentoring while going to college would be extremely taxing, and not recommended. However, my situation is different. This is why I said that everyone's situation is different and blanket statements like "nobody should mentor during their first year of college" don't apply to everyone.

Also, a ton of people at Kettering were on FIRST teams and many still mentor, so we enjoy going to competitions and watching webcasts together.

nlknauss

07-08-2014, 09:37

Hello all - This is a topic of particular interest to me because my career has been built around mentorship because of my experiences as a FRC student and later a mentor. I'm extremely proud of all my personal accomplishments and those of the teams I've mentored. There's nothing I would go back and change.

I think the best advice I can give is to listen to yourself. If you are doing something that makes you happy and are able to maintain a healthy life then keep doing it. You're the best gauge of your own abilities and energy, so don't ignore yourself.

It also doesn't hurt to listen to feedback from others. If subtle hints of business, health, or well-being related to what your doing become persistent from co-mentors, family, and friends you may want to listen.

This is a tough topic because FIRST mentors are of the most passionate people who give back. Just do what you think is right.

Nate

Katie_UPS

08-08-2014, 00:22

I've been thinking about this thread a lot, and I'm shifting my stance. While I think college should be your number one top priority in school and that is enough for one to sit back and think "hmm, maybe I should put this FIRST thing on the back burner for a second," I think that there is something equally as important to consider when debating whether to mentor in college or not.

I think the best advice I can give is to listen to yourself. If you are doing something that makes you happy and are able to maintain a healthy life then keep doing it.

I agree a lot with this statement. Also, I'm going to disagree with this statement:

If you want to mentor in college, think of all the reasons why. To make this activity more meaningful, write them down. Don't sensor them, be honest. Did you come up with all your reasons?

Write them down before you continue reading, because its only effective if you're honest and if you continue reading you won't be honest.

Count them.

Now throw that number away because it doesn't matter.

Look at your reasons. How many of your reasons are reasons that only benefit/affect you. Is the reason "because I want to stay in FIRST"? That only affect you. Is the reason "It will be fun"? Cross off those reasons.

How many reasons do you have left?

------------------------------

I'll do this activity:

Why did I want to be a mentor when I was 18 (to the best of my memory):
I wanted to still be in FIRST.
I wanted to be a successful young mentor.
I wanted to be important.
I thought it would be fun.
I wanted to say I started a team.
I had other friends that were mentoring and I wanted to mentor too.
I was told it was hard and I wanted to prove people wrong.
I wanted to be a strong female in FIRST for other girls.

Did I think about helping students, or wanting to inspire kids the way someone inspired me? Maybe. I don't remember. And honestly, I probably thought/said that because I had to. Not because it came to me naturally.

Now lets cross them off.

I wanted to still be in FIRST.
I wanted to be a successful young mentor.
I wanted to be important.
I thought it would be fun.
I wanted to say I started a team.
I had other friends that were mentoring and I wanted to mentor too.
I was told it was hard and I wanted to prove people wrong.
I wanted to be a strong female in FIRST for other girls.

------------------------------

Only half a reason exists (and I crossed off half of it because I know part of it was self-serving). I had seven -yes I know I said that number doesn't matter- and only half a reason wasn't self-centered?*

Mentoring, I've learned, is not about me (thanks Mom!). Its not about how I feel or what I'll gain from it. Its not about making me feel important or useful or letting me stay with FIRST. And most young kids who want to mentor say "because I liked FIRST and I want to stay in FIRST." Which has nothing to do with the students or their team, which is already the wrong reason to mentor.

*I am being honest and laying myself out here. I highly recommend you be brutally honest with yourself. Additionally, I don't want flack about being weak-willed or selfish because I didn't sugar coat my thoughts. We all have some ugly in us.

Kelsey Draus

08-08-2014, 10:01

^^ I agree with a lot of what Katie posted. Make sure you are in it for the right reasons.

The only reason I am an engineer now is because I joined a FIRST team. It put me right where I am now, graduated, working as an engineer. With that said, I mentor because it's really important for me to give back so that other kids can have the wonderful experience that I had.

I mentored pretty much all through college. My first year I helped with my old team, then I mentored for 3 years at college helping with a new team.

It can be a black hole of time. I did all mechanical stuff when I was in high school, I was one of those really dedicated-at the shop everyday- sort of kids. I knew that I wouldn't have all the time in the world in college to dedicate like I did before, so I chose to help with smaller projects.

This may be a good alternative: if you are ok with helping out with the little things! I took on smaller roles like- teaching kids how to make bumpers and marketing and award proofreading.

If you think you can control yourself from going overboard, ending up staying late at the shop everyday, and diving head first into full time mentoring, I encourage you to take a small role. Tell the team that your time is limited, and that you can't be around all the time but! that you would like to help out with A and B. Helping with bumpers, the playing field, or marketing are a few ideas.

Yes school does come first, focus on that, get good grades (I know you've heard it all before!) Try other clubs. Focus on getting yourself settled in. If you want to help with one little project with your local team, do it. Just remind yourself not to get carried away. Stick to whatever small project you agreed to take on. If you find yourself taking on more roles, step back, delegate, and distance yourself back into your role of helping with the smaller things.

Any knowledge you can teach and pass on is good, even small contributions help. It's like fundraising, even a $100 helps a team! If you can teach the students even a little, it helps them to grow and benefit from the program, so don't think you have to be the know-all-teach-all mentor.

-Just some food for thought. If you read this all the way to the end, cool. I hope you take some advice and think about what you are doing, why you are doing it, and how it will affect you.

treffk

08-08-2014, 13:11

I do not recall if I've posted in this thread before but I'm going to put my experiences out there. I graduated high school and went to a state school about 2.5 hours away from home. I had set up my schedule so I did not have Friday classes during build season. My freshman year of college I still had a lot to learn about time management. I spent almost every weekend of build season back home (which with it being a census year it caused issues as my time was evenly divided between the dorm and my parents). After my freshman year I was asked to reevaluate my priorities and reapply in a year. This was by no means related to mentoring a FIRST team or volunteering with FIRST. This was due to me being on my own for the first time and experiencing new things.

I ended up moving back home and transferred my credits to a program that was set up more for non-traditional students. This meant I had night classes and still no classes on Fridays. For me working part time and volunteering/mentoring with FIRST this was the best place for me to be. It allowed me to effectively balance my schedule and set myself up for success.

For me it wasn't my time commitment to FIRST that caused me issues my freshman year it was my immaturity, my being on my own for the first time, the opportunities for new experiences and trying new things both good and bad. Each person who will be graduating and going off into the "real world" needs to take time and look inward on what they want and what time they could realistically dedicate to a team.

Akash Rastogi

09-08-2014, 00:07

I'll do this activity:

Why did I want to be a mentor when I was 18 (to the best of my memory):
I wanted to still be in FIRST.
I wanted to be a successful young mentor.
I wanted to be important.
I thought it would be fun.
I wanted to say I started a team.
I had other friends that were mentoring and I wanted to mentor too.
I was told it was hard and I wanted to prove people wrong.
I wanted to be a strong female in FIRST for other girls.

Did I think about helping students, or wanting to inspire kids the way someone inspired me? Maybe. I don't remember. And honestly, I probably thought/said that because I had to. Not because it came to me naturally.

Now lets cross them off.

I wanted to still be in FIRST.
I wanted to be a successful young mentor.
I wanted to be important.
I thought it would be fun.
I wanted to say I started a team.
I had other friends that were mentoring and I wanted to mentor too.
I was told it was hard and I wanted to prove people wrong.
I wanted to be a strong female in FIRST for other girls.

------------------------------

Only half a reason exists (and I crossed off half of it because I know part of it was self-serving). I had seven -yes I know I said that number doesn't matter- and only half a reason wasn't self-centered?*

Mentoring, I've learned, is not about me (thanks Mom!). Its not about how I feel or what I'll gain from it. Its not about making me feel important or useful or letting me stay with FIRST. And most young kids who want to mentor say "because I liked FIRST and I want to stay in FIRST." Which has nothing to do with the students or their team, which is already the wrong reason to mentor.

*I am being honest and laying myself out here. I highly recommend you be brutally honest with yourself. Additionally, I don't want flack about being weak-willed or selfish because I didn't sugar coat my thoughts. We all have some ugly in us.

This is so accurate. Well said, Katie.

a2alexa

15-03-2016, 11:20

Maldridge422

15-03-2016, 11:45

vhcook

15-03-2016, 11:46

I would love some advice on this - I am a senior in high school with graduation right around the corner, and I am still working out college plans. At the same time, I do not want to fall out of the FIRST community during college, as joining was the best thing ever to happen to me. I wouldn't know what I want my future to look like if I had never joined FIRST. It's incredibly important to me to stay actively involved, but I have come to the realisation that I need some help and advice on how best to do this while still working and getting through school with decent marks, without completely working myself to death.

Find a geographically convenient event that's during your spring break and volunteer. That gets you a couple of days of immersion, but doesn't eat up so much time it affects your grades.

In your free time, you can follow the season here, but I'd advise against mentoring a team as a college freshman outside of school breaks. If the end of your winter break is suitably timed, you might be able to do kickoff and perhaps week 1 with a team before going back to school.

Once you've got your feet under you, you could consider doing more, but take it easy the first year.

Shrub

15-03-2016, 11:51

I would love some advice on this - I am a senior in high school with graduation right around the corner, and I am still working out college plans. At the same time, I do not want to fall out of the FIRST community during college, as joining was the best thing ever to happen to me. I wouldn't know what I want my future to look like if I had never joined FIRST. It's incredibly important to me to stay actively involved, but I have come to the realisation that I need some help and advice on how best to do this while still working and getting through school with decent marks, without completely working myself to death.

Volunteering! Even if FRC mainly has events spring semester, there are hopefully opportunities in your area to volunteer for FTC/FLL/FLLjr events and the like. No matter what you do, don't forsake homework for robots. :) I'm here for advice!

Ginger Power

15-03-2016, 11:59

My situation may be a unique case, but I don't think it has to be. When I graduated and moved on to college I founded a university level robotics team called Bison Robotics. The organization is made up of FIRST alum as well as people who regret not doing FIRST in high school.

Within Bison Robotics we participate in collegiate robotics competitions, as well as mentor/volunteer within FIRST. This year we've had 35 different members volunteer at at least 1 FRC event. As the person coordinating all of them (in correspondence with Minnesota's Volunteer Coordinator) I can say that there are little to no regrets on the part of the volunteers. They love it.

Part of the reason we're able to volunteer is because we have a semi-established organization that allows students to be excused from their classes. We also build in support for students who miss class by working together, and learning from each other.

A lesser number of us work with FRC teams (usually the team we graduated from) during the build season. It's a lot to manage, but nothing that a dedicated FIRST alum can't handle. As one of the people who does mentor from Bison Robotics, I can say that it has been a massively positive experience.

Bison Robotics also participates in Ri3D which is another incredibly fun event. It really keeps you connected with the FIRST community, and your efforts inspire thousands. It's a really cool thing to be a part of.

As I said, my situation may be unique, but it definitely doesn't have to be. If you're going to a university that has no robotics organization, I reccomend starting one. I am more than willing to help. Starting Bison Robotics was the greatest decision of my life and I have no regrets.

*disclaimer: When we have a student who signs up to volunteer, and they come to the realization that it's too much, it's not a big deal at all. Being responsible and letting the volunteer coordinator know the situation asap is critical.

a2alexa

15-03-2016, 13:00

I mentor a team at UVA, and it definitely takes a lot of time. A good alternative to directly mentoring is staying in contact with your old team or volunteering at events. Feel free to PM me about how to reach a good balance between mentoring and studying, especially if you'll be in Charlottesville next year!

Chances are, I will either be in Roanoke attending community college to transfer to Virginia Tech (don't hate me? :D) or, if I am accepted, I may go straight into Virginia Tech. I've been recently working out some personal issues that have been affecting my school, and I'm still trying to decide what I would prefer to do.

There is a good chance/rumoured confirmation that my high school will be starting an FRC team. It's kind of a complicated situation with that, but to nutshell it, I moved away from my old FRC team last March and the only FIRST team in and reasonably close to Roanoke was an FTC team, so I joined that.

If my school starts a team, I definitely want to help them get on their feet, but, again, I will need help managing the schedule. I have a bad habit of overestimating my abilities and burning myself out. Any advice with my college plan would also be greatly appreciated.

I have been considering possibly helping with the team as a FIRST Alumni, without being a completely devoted mentor. Would that be unreasonable?

Thanks for the help.

a2alexa

15-03-2016, 13:02

Volunteering! Even if FRC mainly has events spring semester, there are hopefully opportunities in your area to volunteer for FTC/FLL/FLLjr events and the like. No matter what you do, don't forsake homework for robots. :) I'm here for advice!

Volunteering definitely sounds like a wise option. I do want to stay at least somewhat involved with a team in my area, wherever I end up going to college - I just wonder if there's a good way to do that without actually mentoring.

Thank you much for the reply and help.

a2alexa

15-03-2016, 13:06

Find a geographically convenient event that's during your spring break and volunteer. That gets you a couple of days of immersion, but doesn't eat up so much time it affects your grades.

In your free time, you can follow the season here, but I'd advise against mentoring a team as a college freshman outside of school breaks. If the end of your winter break is suitably timed, you might be able to do kickoff and perhaps week 1 with a team before going back to school.

Once you've got your feet under you, you could consider doing more, but take it easy the first year.

Seems legit. I would definitely not want to miss kickoff - even not being on an FRC team this year, I watched the kickoff the day it aired, and I've been watching lots of regional events via live stream. What's important to me is to have some level of FIRST involvement (preferably outside of just watching online), because even after the first couple of weeks into my first year, I knew that I would be in this program and related professions for a very long time. Being away from it for too long isn't good for my sanity.

Thanks so much for the great advice.

Maldridge422

15-03-2016, 13:15

Chances are, I will either be in Roanoke attending community college to transfer to Virginia Tech (don't hate me? :D) or, if I am accepted, I may go straight into Virginia Tech. I've been recently working out some personal issues that have been affecting my school, and I'm still trying to decide what I would prefer to do.

There is a good chance/rumoured confirmation that my high school will be starting an FRC team. It's kind of a complicated situation with that, but to nutshell it, I moved away from my old FRC team last March and the only FIRST team in and reasonably close to Roanoke was an FTC team, so I joined that.

If my school starts a team, I definitely want to help them get on their feet, but, again, I will need help managing the schedule. I have a bad habit of overestimating my abilities and burning myself out. Any advice with my college plan would also be greatly appreciated.

I have been considering possibly helping with the team as a FIRST Alumni, without being a completely devoted mentor. Would that be unreasonable?

Thanks for the help.

Southwest Virginia is a great area, and it has its own district event now!

If your school ends up starting a team, I'd suggest you act more as an alumni adviser instead of somebody leading it up, at least until you're more certain on how much free time you'll have. I've definitely been able to be more involved with 619 this year than I was last year now that I'm more settled in here.

dradel

15-03-2016, 13:22

Virginia Tech sponsors/mentors a team right in Blacksburg VA

GO HOKIES !!!!!

a2alexa

15-03-2016, 13:34

Southwest Virginia is a great area, and it has its own district event now!

If your school ends up starting a team, I'd suggest you act more as an alumni adviser instead of somebody leading it up, at least until you're more certain on how much free time you'll have. I've definitely been able to be more involved with 619 this year than I was last year now that I'm more settled in here.

Yes, I know about the district! I actually was able to go this past weekend, and man, I had a blast. My old Governators team 3361 was there.

Again, I'm still working out college plans. It's going to depend largely on how things go between now and graduation, and of course whether or not I get accepted to attend VT. Even if I do, I may still choose to go to a community college - the one in my area has a great system where graduates from my county get free tuition, and they have a guaranteed admission to Virginia public universities program. (Did that sentence make sense? I think it did.) I would end up doing their guaranteed admission to Tech program and transfer to VT for my junior year.

dradel

15-03-2016, 13:58

My son goes to VT, and loves it there. His course load doesn't allow him much in the way of free time, (vtcc) but did mentor on 4557 the first few days of this year before heading back to tech.

a2alexa

15-03-2016, 14:01

My son goes to VT, and loves it there. His course load doesn't allow him much in the way of free time, (vtcc) but did mentor on 4557 the first few days of this year before heading back to tech.

A general summary of the advice I'm getting seems to be to spend some free time I may have with a team/volunteering, - basically spend it with FIRST in some way, after prioritising classes and other obligations. It sounds like a pretty good plan. Of course still vastly in the works, as Murphy's Law tends to hold true in every situation that you don't want it to.

Zebra_Fact_Man

15-03-2016, 14:06

Citrus Dad

15-03-2016, 14:09

As a general comment, I believe college students should always pick a non-academic activity to get involved in at school. It is the best way to meet others and be able to become more well rounded. FIRST is a good activity, especially if you can recruit other students to join you. Be sure however to decide what you can commit to. Remember that you don't need to be "all in" to still be helpful to a team. And even more importantly remember that you are no longer "doing" but rather "advising" or some flavor of that. That said, when I hear someone suggest dropping out entirely to focus solely on academics, I strongly object and feel that they don't have a truly realistic view of what you can do in college. This may be one of the most memorable periods of your life so enjoy it as best you can.

Electronica1

15-03-2016, 14:11

Yes, I know about the district! I actually was able to go this past weekend, and man, I had a blast. My old Governators team 3361 was there.

Again, I'm still working out college plans. It's going to depend largely on how things go between now and graduation, and of course whether or not I get accepted to attend VT. Even if I do, I may still choose to go to a community college - the one in my area has a great system where graduates from my county get free tuition, and they have a guaranteed admission to Virginia public universities program. (Did that sentence make sense? I think it did.) I would end up doing their guaranteed admission to Tech program and transfer to VT for my junior year.

I am at VT right now and spend the end of my winter break and my spring break mentoring 1086. If you are careful to balance it, you can mentor and still keep up a strong GPA. You can also mentor 401, which is offered as a class for mechanical engineers but I believe you can also mentor without going through the class. The key is that you budget your time and keep classes number one priority.

Knufire

15-03-2016, 14:11

As someone who is a current junior in college, and spent the first 2.5 years starting and running an FRC team, I'd recommend against it. FRC will be there when you graduate. There are so, so many things that won't be. Take college to experience the things that you will only have a chance to experience while you're in college.

dradel

15-03-2016, 14:14

If I could share my experiences for those that are thinking about it, I would advise against mentoring the team you were a student on. You will not be viewed as a mentor by your peers (neither the hs students or the other mentors) and will honestly not have the impact that you would have in another team. Everyone will know you as one of the team-members, and will continue to treat you as such.

I'd also recommend taking a year off to get started in the right direction, but if you must mentor, pick a new, local team that you have no prior affiliation with. If you want to go back to your old team once most of the students have cycled through, that should be fine.

Our team feared this happening, and for returning alum that are wanting to mentor we started a mentor group that we called mini me's.
That is they are shadowing the mentor in whatever mentor subset they want to perhaps move forward in, wether that be programming, business, build/design.
We are still a young team and have gotten our first few alum back this year. The hope is to keep the interest, and involvement in first but without all the pressure of being a full on mentor.
Plus let's face it there is a learning curve to being a mentor. I know I am still learning

kristinweiss

15-03-2016, 14:22

My advice as a college mentor is to take a semester or two off from FIRST and learn how to manage your time in college. It is ok to volunteer and attend kickoff and competitions, but take some time to get your college routine under control. After a semester or two, if, and only if you feel as if you can manage your time mentoring a team and maintain your academics, start introducing yourself back into FRC. Personally, I started doing this by only attending meetings once every other week and doing most of my mentoring remotely via skype and giving feedback on documents posted to our team drive. Once you have mastered balancing this type of commitment, you can consider becoming more active as a mentor. As a second year now, I meet with my team once or twice a week and communicate with them almost daily on things that can be worked on remotely. The one thing that you have to keep in mind though, is that school should always come first! It is ok to miss a meeting if you have a big exam to study for or need to catch up on homework.

With all this being said though, I think that college mentors can be some of the most valuable mentors a team can have. College FRC alumni know how to relate with the students on the team because they have been in their shoes, and also have the experience to guide a team to success. Another added bonus is that college students don't really know what sleep is, so they can be at the shop during the late build nights when all the adults want to go and sleep. I know personally, there have been several occasions when my kids needed an adult at the shop because none of the parents could come, and I was able to sit at the shop on my laptop working on schoolwork while they worked on the robot.

In summary, mentoring in college is incredibly rewarding but focus on yourself and getting adjusted to college before jumping back into FIRST. You probably will never be able to give the same time commitment you did while you were a team member in high school, but you can most definitely still make an impact on the team.

Al Skierkiewicz

21-03-2016, 08:13

April,
I hope you can find an answer in all the responses. Let me talk as a senior mentor and parent for a little while. You have some issues that you need to prioritize. School and family come way before FIRST and other fun items. Take care of the important items first. You will be a great mentor if you can get your life straight and get the education you want to get. Then come back to FIRST when and if you can. Let it be a reward for your hard work at school. In your area, you could easily volunteer for a simple position if you can take time away from your studies. As you get your life organized, you might be able to take on more roles like mentoring a team or working with FLL. However, we all want you to develop the skills you need for the rest or your life. Don't let FIRST get in the way of life. Let FIRST be an extension of your life when you are able. It will be better for you and for the people you will work with. I would rather not see you for four or five years and know that your are being successful at school then to see you at every event and know you are struggling.