Lending Computers

[BuddyB309]

We all know that rendering can be a pain. Sitting there waiting for the computer to get done. We all wish we could have a rendering farm or more computers and this lead me to an idea. What about other animators helping each other out by donating their computer when they aren't going to use it.

One animator A would send the project file to animator B and tell him which frames he needs to render and all the other specs. When animator B is asleep or gone for the day they can set the computer to render those frames and send the video back to animator A. Then Animator A has to help out Animator B in the future.

I think this would be a great way to bring us closer together and to learn from each other even more. My question is how many of you would give up your computer for a night to help someone else out with their project?

You can use this forum to post a request for computers or just PM me and send the project file using my email address for my computer is open for rendering. It has plenty of power to tackle any project file thrown at it.

[fimmel]

thats a good idea. isint there a way to set up a virtual network of computers that people are willing to share and then animators can tell 3ds to use the network. i think i read that u could do that but sending the files would work too.
/forest

[BuddyB309]

thats a good idea. isint there a way to set up a virtual network of computers that people are willing to share and then animators can tell 3ds to use the network. i think i read that u could do that but sending the files would work too.
/forest


Yes, Its called backburnner and there is a couple of problems with that. One problem is that the computer will have to be hooked up to this network all the time and stay on all the time. My computer that I animate with is not hooked up to the internet and never will be.

The second is that back burner will automatically start 3ds max and render the file even when the user of the computer will not want it to. Giving the files to the animator will allow the animator to render the files when they want to, not when Backbunner wants to.

Third some of us poor country folk still have dial up. (me) and we lunge at our friend's high speed internet connection and download and upload everything we need for the week when we are over at their house. So sadly some of our computers that we animate wont be able to keep up with the network swapping and such.

Fourth the network That we would set up wouldn't be that secure. You have to turn your firewall off in order for backbunner to work. (at least thats how we got it to work.

I think sending the files over the internet for the animator to render is an easier way.

[Morgan Gillespie]

I would be willing, yet I cannot. Like Buddy my house cannot get high speed yet my neighbors can. Yet they just built a whole new bunch of houses about 2 houses down with an average value of 1mil. I think Verizon will get the picture that people live here and don't want dial up anymore.

[lukevanoort]

See if you can load backburner on all the computers that can run it in your school. (Not fast, just run) As long as the hubs/routers/switches don't throw away the packets, depending on the size of your school, you could get a lot of computers, or a few. Lets pretend your animation is 1050 frames (30 second animation, 5 second credits), and you can use 60 total computers, then each computer will only have to render 17.5 frames. Lets say it takes 10 mins to render one frame, that's only 2.92 hours for the whole render, the time would be higher in practice, but still better than one computer, (with those speeds in this hypothetical situation, that'd take over a week of solid processing) and they don't have to be top-of-the-line workstations. (It's essentially the same idea as cluster supercomputing) That should solve render woes, but you need to make sure that your backburner server can handle it. Look at it this way, one nice computer, with Windows 2000/3 server (can be bought at educational discount, or often the school district will already have a volume license) and good render times, instead of using someone's gamer and agonizing for several days.

[BuddyB309]

See if you can load backburner on all the computers that can run it in your school. (Not fast, just run) As long as the hubs/routers/switches don't throw away the packets, depending on the size of your school, you could get a lot of computers, or a few. Lets pretend your animation is 1050 frames (30 second animation, 5 second credits), and you can use 60 total computers, then each computer will only have to render 17.5 frames. Lets say it takes 10 mins to render one frame, that's only 2.92 hours for the whole render, the time would be higher in practice, but still better than one computer, (with those speeds in this hypothetical situation, that'd take over a week of solid processing) and they don't have to be top-of-the-line workstations. (It's essentially the same idea as cluster supercomputing) That should solve render woes, but you need to make sure that your backburner server can handle it. Look at it this way, one nice computer, with Windows 2000/3 server (can be bought at educational discount, or often the school district will already have a volume license) and good render times, instead of using someone's gamer and agonizing for several days.

All right that would work but what about over the summer? Most schools frown about using their computers during the summer. And the tech department at my is very strict about what the computers do. In order for back burner to work the computers have to be peer to peer networked and thats not how their networked at my school.

Many people are missing my point here let me say this as clear as I can.

BACK BURNER IS NOT INVOLVED IN THIS RENDERING PROCEEDER!!!

when the given frames are done rendering at Animators B's house. Animator B will send the short video segment to Animators A. Then Animator A will have to piece together all the short video segments in using some other program.
Also some of the animators don't have enough money to get more computers and have a crappy computer. (no offense to anybody) I thought this would be a way for us all to help those in need by lending our computers. thus producing a large "network" of rendering farms. This whole process is to bring the animators together and learn from each other. I know that someone on another forum was complaining about re rendering 1000 frames and he wouldn't be able to use his computer for the next week or so. This is a way for us with good computers to help him out.

So it would be Animators A's job to tell what frames and what video format the render has to be in. so then all Animator B would have to do is open the file, set the frames in video post, set the file format and size, and click render. Then animator B would go to sleep for the night or go to work for the day. Animator B wouldn't be using his computer anyway so it shouldn't be that much of a problem for him.

[Capt.ArD]

I got what you were saying. A good idea for this would be an FTP server that someone could set up. then you just upload the files you want help with and people could DL them and render. they would then upload the rendered files back onto the FTP, where you retrieve them.

this could also be helpful when someone wants help modelling or texturing, they could use the FTP to transfer files or tutorials or what have you. someone just needs to bite the bullet and open up their computer for everyone to access.

[Gdeaver]

I saw this blurb a week ago "Nvidia offers Gelato GPU-accelerated renderer for free". Basically it uses the GPU of your graphics card to assist in rendering. Don't know the details but may be worth looking into. There are a couple million transistors on a graphics card and they can be used for allot more than they now are.

[Drew]

well here what we can do is anyone who wants to wrok o nthe summer animation prject can do it and we will all try and raise money for maybe a dedicated server or just a really big server for a year and we can all ftp to it... sounds good?

[BuddyB309]

well here what we can do is anyone who wants to wrok o nthe summer animation prject can do it and we will all try and raise money for maybe a dedicated server or just a really big server for a year and we can all ftp to it... sounds good?


Good Idea but I dont really know about FTP servers and such.

[Mazin]

or get a 1&1 solution for $3 a month with 5 GB or $5 a month with 50GB.

I or some other web wizard could whip up a PHP "task" manager to queue stuff up and manage uploads, etc.

[Timothy D. Ginn]

I or some other web wizard could whip up a PHP "task" manager to queue stuff up and manage uploads, etc.

If someone is interested in pursuing this sort of development (or leading the group that does) I'd love to speak with them (e-mail/PM/here).

I can offer (depending on your preference some or all of):


Hosting on the same server that's used for some openFIRST stuff (http://www.openfirst.org/) (and which hosts FIRSTcast (http://podcast.openfirst.org/), amongst other things).
Sufficient diskspace/bandwidth to get something like this running.
Access to some code that I started on ages ago which does some of the similar stuff (FTP management / browsing inside zip files / what not). I'm not sure how helpful this will be; but, I figured I'd throw it out there.
Some assistance with how to automatically create/delete FTP accounts for users to upload/download from (it's pretty straightforward). These details may be specific to the above mentioned server offer (though anything with CPanel will probably be similar).
A bit of help here and there with code things.
If you'd like (through Jamie) some help using openFIRST 2.0 in order to avoid having to write some of the more tedious things like user management / logins / passwords / what not.
Some help with fletching out a design/spec for this thing.


The one thing that I definitely don't have is enough time to take on a project like this myself. At this point I've already got enough on my plate.

P.S. Just throwing this out there, too: are people interested in adding an animation contact to the FIRST Contacts Database (http://contact.openfirst.org/) and an option to checkmark their willingness to do renders for others?

[Gdeaver]

Look at this link. If you all ready have a high end Nvidia graphics card this free program and plug in can greatly decrease your rendering time. It Depending on memory and video card cut the time in half. I'm not into video, but people I Know who are rave about this program
Nvidia Gelato (http://www.nvidia.com/page/gelato.html)

[Mazin]

I don't have nVidia card, unfortunately.

I will be willing to help with a PHP based system, but I don't know how much time I can dedicate. I might also be able to donate hosting, since I have more than a few free gigs lying around.

Here is an outline of what I believe it should be like should it exist:
(drawn up during school, of course, along with a giant meteoric explosion)

Dubbed "rendershare" for now,

Invite Only
Register using an invite
Upload 3d scene
Specify info: program, version, # frames (split into 50 frame blocks), whether saved as frames or a sequence, encoding/type (divx|dv|cinepak, avi|mov, PNG|JPEG|?), points offered*
Place in queue
Someone downloads it
The file is locked when all blocks are taken (guard against stealing). blocks will be locked once someone has taken the task, and stays locked for, say, 2 days
Render
Upload
Submitter will Accept/Reject
Remove project from queue


Users will have stats too:

Points*
rating +/-
completed blocks (status symbol)
userstatus - active, suspended, awaiting confirmation...


*I think points would be a cool currency-type deal, where if you really wanted something done, you could offer points if the queue is especially long. It wouldn't bump your task up the queue, but people might want to earn points too.

You guys tell me if something like this is desirable. I could set it up, MySQL-backended, and hopefully not get myself banned from my host ;)

[BuddyB309]

I don't have nVidia card, unfortunately.

I will be willing to help with a PHP based system, but I don't know how much time I can dedicate. I might also be able to donate hosting, since I have more than a few free gigs lying around.

Here is an outline of what I believe it should be like should it exist:
(drawn up during school, of course, along with a giant meteoric explosion)
.................

I love it!!! We could also use the points to buy some models from other animators to use in a project or some sort. I love the way you think. You should spend all of your time at school in a boring class somewhere ;) .

I think this is the best Idea we've had so far. I think we should put this into action. But I think we need to make this point thing more important. To make animators want to help out eachother. Any suggestions?

Also who is going to moderate this thing?

[Mazin]

If I moderate I get infinite points. (Well, if I write the code, of course I'll build in a backdoor for infinite points.)

The code has been started, though not to the point of functionality.

Also, (more for my records):

Each render project will be one data row:
id, name, user, date, program, version, frames/sequence, type/encoding, points offered, done(y/n)

Each block will be one data row:
id, idofproject, taken(y/n), assignedto, framestart, frameend, checkoutdate, done(y/n), accept(y/n)

Let me know what other items it needs

[Capt.ArD]

Personally, i strongly disagree with the whole points/buying models deal. It will basically be promoting people not using their own models. points attract spammers, which is one thing you don't want when people are trying to render their own hard work. I think that if you are going to help people out by rendering, or by giving modelling advice, do it because you are a good person and because you expect someone else to help you in return. not for some points.

but hey, whatever floats your boat. I just think it's too much fluff for so simple a project.

[BuddyB309]

Personally, i strongly disagree with the whole points/buying models deal. It will basically be promoting people not using their own models. points attract spammers, which is one thing you don't want when people are trying to render their own hard work. I think that if you are going to help people out by rendering, or by giving modelling advice, do it because you are a good person and because you expect someone else to help you in return. not for some points.

but hey, whatever floats your boat. I just think it's too much fluff for so simple a project.


Hmmm.... Yes then it turns into something like turbosquid or 3dkingdom. I do agree with you. I was originally trying to go on the fact that other animators dont want their models stolen and used by some other guy. I think we should scratch the buying models part.

[Capt.ArD]

I was originally trying to go on the fact that other animators dont want their models stolen and used by some other guy.

I'm also not really sure that would happen, especially if this FTP is invite-only. the people who can access the FTP would only be ones that everyone trusts. and whoever is mod would know who everyone is on the board and if duplicate models ever do show up, then the person who posted them second gets banned and an email gets sent to FIRST explaining what happened. i would trust most people on CD with my models.

besides, the FRC teams share resources and swap ideas either on the forums or at competitions. but i've noticed that animators are always very nervous about discussing/showing/helping others because "thier ideas may get stolen." I think it's about time we grew up and acted responsibly, like the rest of the teams.
[/rant]

lol. i prolly won't be able to ever see this FTP thing realized because i'm going to UVA next year. (does the charlottesville team want an animation mentor?) but it is definiately an awesome step toward better animations and less stress for renderers.

[Mazin]

I'm not quite sure I communicated the points system across properly, but
there will be no model selling on this thing

The points are to provide motivation to get something rendered, which you can then spend on motivating someone to get yours rendered.

I hope we do not have a problem with model-stealing. After all the blocks of a project have been assigned, the project will be locked. After a project has been completed, it will either be moved into a protected dir or deleted (most likely deleted).

I do not expect anyone to use this for their actual AVA entry, but you can if you want your glorious idea leaked to whomever.

[BuddyB309]

I do not expect anyone to use this for their actual AVA entry, but you can if you want your glorious idea leaked to whomever.

I think by the time animation are in the rendering stage of the season its a little hard to change that much within the time frame.

Anyway, back to discussing this rendering FTP thingy ma jig. What should we call it? obviously it must have a name. Here is my suggestion,
Renders Corner anyone Else have something better. Maybe we can give suggestions then I'll put a new thread up with a poll on it and we can vote.

[Mazin]

Well, I got the user login and authentication stuff done... so it's progress...

current working url is rendershare.aztekera.com

somebody may want to make a css for it, otherwise it's gonna look like it is now.

Edit: Oh yeah, here's some handy referral codes for you ppl that want a jump on registration:

slugmountainbell
alohariverapple
sensiblemelons
nokiamiranda

If one doesn't work try another.

[BuddyB309]

Well, I got the user login and authentication stuff done... so it's progress...

current working url is rendershare.aztekera.com

somebody may want to make a css for it, otherwise it's gonna look like it is now.......


RenderShare thats a good name. I'm so exited! :D :D It looks like it needs a little more work. Is there anything I can help with? I don't know anything about programing or anything so I probably wouldn't be that much of any help.

When is the grand opening? I just cant wait. :D

[Mazin]

It will be done when I get it done, so no promises. It looks like I will have to scale some features back from what was planned, but the "framework" will still be there in case I want to add it. Umm, there's not really any reason to see it now, but

I am looking for somebody skilled in CSS to give it a fancy look.

[Mazin]

It's done! Old referrals no longer work. As either me or someone who is already a member (BuddyB309) for a referral. There's a nifty web interface to do it.

Please remember this is, um, pre-alpha, or something. It's been tested, but not strenously. Be reasonable with it.