pc/mac

[nextvex]

i was wondering witch is better a pc or a mac

[Joe Matt]

But a PC is a personal computer, which a Macintosh is. Now, if the debate is OSX vs. Windows, well, you know.....

[Mike Starke]

I lean more towards a Mac. That's actually what I'm on now. I especially love the Apple Laptops. Macs are better for Audio/Visual things in my opinion. However, less software is made for Macs.
I love the Mac vs. PC commercials on TV... has anyone seen those?

[Cody Carey]

I don't know about those commercials... They aren't really even based in truth.
It is true that earlier on in the struggle between macs and PCs, macs were better for audio/visual applications. That isn't, however, true now. Macs are turning into PCs... They now share the same architecture, and the operating systems are being ported, so whats the use of having a mac except to be different? (and that they always look way cooler than PCs)

[Billfred]

I lean more towards a Mac. Laptops especially.That's actually what I'm on now. Macs are better for Audio/Visual things in my opinion. However, less software is made for Macs.

Agreed, although two things should factor into the software argument:
a) Quality over quantity. ;)
b) You can run Windows if you're dying to do it. (But with OS X on there, why would you?)

Personally, I prefer Macs for a few reasons:
1) Beautiful hardware that stands up to modest amounts of abuse.
2) World-class support. (When my iBook messed up under warranty, everything was shipped next-day air, with plenty of status reports on Apple's website. Service is one of those things you don't think about until you need it--but now I'm definitely hooked on Apple's.)
3) I just prefer OS X to Windows for most tasks.
4) Software developers for OS X tend to create insanely great things that plain change your computing experience. (Quicksilver+Growl for the win.)

[nextvex]

I love the Mac vs. PC commercials on TV... has anyone seen those?

ya those are funny but not as funny as the gieco commercial with mini mee :D

[thegathering]

This is one of those timeless debates where homeboys of each side tend to yell and scream OS propaganda 'till the cows come home.

My advice to you is: try both. Find a friend or an old library computer running Mac and see how you like it. Compare what you think you'll be using the OS for to determine which you would prefer to use.


Personally, I tried Mac, hated the frequent crashes, lockups, and lack of software (these were '95-'00 era computers). I tried Windows and hated the frequent crashes, lockups, and constant spyware(same era). I tried Linux and loved it. I now use Linux for most things and Windows for gaming/school related assignments.

Try them out, pick your favorite. :)

[Josh Goodman]

I love both. Most of the time I tease mac users because I'm on a PC more, but I like both. PC's I tend to use more because Im a gamer.

[KyleGilbert45]

I just recently made the switch to Mac and Mac OS X. For me personally, I will never use a Windows operating system unless I have to. Mac OS X does everything I ever wanted Windows XP to do and I am able to complete task more efficiently then I was able to on Windows XP.

I don't do computer games, but I can see that as being one of the very few reasons why anyone would want to stick with a Windows machine. I've got the new Intel Core 2 Duo chip too and thought about installing XP just for giggles, but then I realized I didn't want to ruin a perfectly good machine.

[chris31]

I tend to lean towards PCs. I have a IBM laptop that has to run Windows XP for school and then a Linux box in my room. I didnt have a choice for the laptop on what I got but the computer in my room isnt a Mac because i could build a PC cheaper than I could buy a Mac.

[jpyro]

i have 2 pc computers at my house, building a third with a 1.5 or so terabite array. I am currently running linux and windows on one computer, windows for what linux cant do. Personally i am a pc lover, dont have problems with them. I use them hard core. To tell you the honest truth, pc is just about as good as macs for audio and visual. Mac doesnt have the edge on pc that it used to. Pc is catching up. Macs now will be getting everything pc does because its not the type of computer that gets viruses, its the os. Now with mac going to windows macs will be getting viruses. If anyone has a barracuda or raptor hd contact me

[Joe Matt]

Now with mac going to windows macs will be getting viruses.

Wow, I'm looking over all my marketing material for my job and don't see that one. I guess that's the "One More Thing" in Jan..... :rolleyes:

[jpyro]

ok, here is a question to ask yourself... is it the os that gets the virus or the computer it self???

[Lil' Lavery]

I'm definately a hardcore Macintosh user. OSX is far superior to Windows, imho. Also, I've heard from the "Computer Illiterate" that it's easier to use (many claim OSX is harder to use, but that's because they were raised on Windows). And if you're really dying for your Windows applications, you can install Windows. But far more applications are also made for Macs (or are now starting to) than many people think.

I don't know about those commercials... They aren't really even based in truth.
It is true that earlier on in the struggle between macs and PCs, macs were better for audio/visual applications. That isn't, however, true now.
I'd like to know your reasoning behind that. iMovie is both really easy to use, and can do a whole lot of nice video editing. And FinalCutPro is probably the best video editing program out there.

[jpyro]

And that will be the reason for hackers to start hacking macs, correct me hackers if im wrong. But windows is far more popular out in the world of computers

[jpyro]

And i use linux, the new one. Its 1337 855. Name an other os that your desktop is a cube and you can throw windows off your screen. Thats my second os. And dont forget the best part FREE

[Joe Matt]

And that will be the reason for hackers to start hacking macs, correct me hackers if im wrong. But windows is far more popular out in the world of computers

To answer your previous post, the OS gets the virus.

Second, and to this question, Windows has more of an installed base (this includes POS terminals, demo kiosks, and other things that don't really matter) than MacOSX (that doesn't promote itself that way).

[Joohoo]

i'm not a hacker but i do agree that the reason for all the windows viruses/malware is because of it's widespread use. This is a con to using windows but to each his own.

[Ryan Dognaux]

I love the Mac vs. PC commercials on TV... has anyone seen those?

I hate those commercials. Even if I were a Mac user, I would still hate them - they don't even really show you the benefits of using a Mac and stereotype Windows users as nerdy spreadsheet guys. Worst marketing campaign ever Apple.

So here's my deal - I would love to own a Mac. I really would. However, they're just too expensive and that's the bottom line. I could easily build my own desktop that will do the same thing for half the cost. Thankfully, Macs are starting to come down in price, but until they really lower to a more competitive price level, I will not be investing in one.

I'm looking forward to the day when their OS comes standard with Boot Camp, or whatever it will be called then, because that will be awesome. Mac OS to do my photo and video, Windows OS to game. It will be great.

[Cody Carey]

I'm definately a hardcore Macintosh user. OSX is far superior to Windows, imho. Also, I've heard from the "Computer Illiterate" that it's easier to use (many claim OSX is harder to use, but that's because they were raised on Windows). And if you're really dying for your Windows applications, you can install Windows. But far more applications are also made for Macs (or are now starting to) than many people think.


I'd like to know your reasoning behind that. iMovie is both really easy to use, and can do a whole lot of nice video editing. And FinalCutPro is probably the best video editing program out there.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=48jlm6QSU4k
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jz1arPaSSqo&mode=related&search=
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MwZkZfOVUHM&mode=related&search=

These commercials are very clearly propaganda... The first commercial is saying that mac is for fun, cool, skinny people, whereas PC is for old, fat, suit wearing types, who only do work. Don't mind that there are basically no mainstream games written for the mac.
The second one is saying that windows only comes with "non fun" programs, such as "calculator" or "clock"... and definitely nothing like itunes or imovie... because apparently windows media player and movie maker don't exist.

And the last one.
"Everything just kinda works with a mac"- Priceless.

All I'm saying is that I have both PCs and macs working in my house, and the PCs give me a whole lot fewer problems, and when they do give me problems, I can fix them. I'm sticking with PC.
Not that it matters, They'll probably meld into some sick combination of the two in a couple of years anyway, ;)

[Cody Carey]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CnpU4y7VWck&mode=related&search=
(Careful, there are two F-bombs, but they are in passing.)

Now that is a better Mac commercial :D

[Lil' Lavery]

These commercials are very clearly propaganda... The first commercial is saying that mac is for fun, cool, skinny people, whereas PC is for old, fat, suit wearing types, who only do work.

Commercials....well....ARE PROPAGANDA.
Don't mind that there are basically no mainstream games written for the mac.
I suppose Unreal Tournament, World of Warcraft, the Sims, Call of Duty, Civilization, and Age of Empires don't count?

The second one is saying that windows only comes with "non fun" programs, such as "calculator" or "clock"... and definitely nothing like itunes or imovie... because apparently windows media player and movie maker don't exist.

Don't even try to argue that they are as effective or as easy to use as iTunes and iMovie.

[Cody Carey]

Ok, you win. Macs are clearly better.

[sanddrag]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CnpU4y7VWck&mode=related&search=
(Careful, there are two F-bombs, but they are in passing.)

Now that is a better Mac commercial :D
One of my alltime favorites. :) The first time I watched it, I was like "geez, was this guy standing behind me watching when I was using a Mac?"

[Lil' Lavery]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CnpU4y7VWck&mode=related&search=
(Careful, there are two F-bombs, but they are in passing.)

Now that is a better Mac commercial :D
The funny part is that, that's the EXACT same thing that many Mac users say about PCs. Any times anyone expresses that view, all it does is express ignorance. As someone raised on Macs, I found the same thing with PCs for a while (until I was forced to use them at school). I still prefer using OSX, but I can use Windows as well. If you try it in reverse, it works just as well...
Additionally, some things (namely the click and drag) just arn't true in that commercial.

[Cody Carey]

Come on, Commercials ARE propaganda.. It doesn't have to be true, right?

[jpyro]

I agree, thats why im building my own. i can put intels new dual core, three barracudas, two raptors, dual graphics cards, and all the other top of the line stuff for the same price as an apple. Now what would you do???

[Adam Y.]

Agreed, although two things should factor into the software argument:
b) You can run Windows if you're dying to do it. (But with OS X on there, why would you?)


99.99999% of the software you need to use to build a robot needs to be either run in Windows or Linux. Linux is not so much a problem but Windows is. Best Mac commercial ever.
Player vs Player (http://www.pvponline.com/comic_archive_results/?pg=2&c=mac)

[[527]phil]

It also depends on what games you like to play, some don't run on linux or mac's. I actually just bought a dell inspiron notebook the other day, and am planning on converting my craptop into a dedicated linux box (ubuntu FTW). Personally I like windows mainly becuase certain things in linux confuse the hell out of me, but then again I like linux becuase thers more control(and it's free :D ). Plus dell is offering a FREE vista upgrade.

[artdutra04]

Even though I don't own any Macs at the moment, my next computer will most likely be a Mac Mini. For $1100, I can get a Mac Mini and a large Dell LCD monitor and do more with it straight out of the box than I ever could with my Windows machine (which cost the same) straight out of the box. After spending hundreds to get Macromedia Studio MX, Pinnacle Studio Plus, and a host of other applications, my dual processor 3GHz P4 computer could finally do something that Macs could do right out of the box.

And with the latest Macs being able to run Mac and Windows, I don't think I'd ever buy a Windows-only computer again. The tons of amazing software that comes with a Mac are definitely worth the extra cost.

Besides, I think some healthy competition for Microsoft would do them and the consumer good, as it would actually force them to create better software. When you control 97% of the market, what incentive is there to create software that makes people say "Wow!"? If those numbers were to jump to even 80% MS, 15% Apple, and 5% other, now Microsoft would actually have to create better products to keep from losing more market share. Just look what Mozilla Firefox did to light a fire under Microsoft to get them to improve Internet Explorer. ;)


In case anyone every really wondered, Team 228 is a Mac team. Our Mac to PC ratio of computers owned by the team is 4:1. :p

[Ryan Dognaux]

Commercials....well....ARE PROPAGANDA.

Yes they are, but do they have to be so blatantly wrong? Really, these commercials put out right now just make Apple look ignorant. If anything, they deter me from purchasing one of their machines.

[yongkimleng]

now most macs are using intel CPUs and its possible to get the new OSX running on a "PC". To suit your gaming needs the base OS can be win2k or XP which has only bare essentials for gaming, and using VMware (which is now FREE) we run OSX and/or Linux for other work purposes.
Result is a 3 in 1 "PC" that suits all your tasks! Everyone wins :yikes: :D

[KelliV]

Worst marketing campaign ever Apple.
I beg to differ, it is probably the best campaign in a long time. It gets people to talk about macs? Isnt that what they want? And lets face it, Macs are a bit easier to understand than PCs at times.

I go to school with a twp of girls that were looking to buy laptops, lets face it, the guy in the Mac add is kinda cute. It makes Mac look easy, hip, and useful. So they bought thier macbooks based on the commercial.

I am on a mac, born and raised mac girl. I have a G4 that is shared with my family, as well as my MacBook Pro, and an iMac. I had the Apple II and a Power Mac back in the day. I also am running some sort of PC in my room (Intel with Windows 2000) and that thing has crashed more than I can count. I have only crashed the mac twice, and that was my MacBook pro for reasons that I still have no clue on.

I also love macs because of what they do. I am a Television Major at Columbia College (Chicago, not New York or South Carolina) and use my mac for it's fabulous editing powers. I have used Avid on both Windows and Mac, Mac works better.

I have also done some programming on Macs and Windows and I will give in to you programming folk... Windows kicks some major butt in that department.

Overall I have come to the thought of mac > pc

[Matt Krass]

And that will be the reason for hackers to start hacking macs, correct me hackers if im wrong. But windows is far more popular out in the world of computers

Actually it's not just popularity, Windows practically trips over itself inviting unwanted users to attack it.

Mac (and Linux) are built on a sturdy core, thats solid and reliable with many years of many programmers workings just to make it stable. On top of that is a rigid user/permission system that means even if you're compromised, the attacker is still very limited in what he/she can do without further effort. I'm not saying they're unbreakable, but comparatively speaking, Windows machines tend to be much easier to compromise and overthrow when they are not properly set up, and they don't come properly set up by default like Macs do ;) As well as most users running as administrator making it even easier....

To be honest, a properly secured windows machine is pretty rock solid as well, just higher maintenance in my opinion, and Macs/Linux come with a pretty secure default setup in comparison.

[GRaduns340]

I also am running some sort of PC in my room (Intel with Windows 2000) and that thing has crashed more than I can count. I have only crashed the mac twice, and that was my MacBook pro for reasons that I still have no clue on.
I don't think this is a fair comparison. You're comparing windows 2000 to a MacBook Pro. That's a difference of almost five years, which is huge in the computer world. I would be willing to guess that you haven't updated the hardware on the PC either, meaning that the power supply (ideally replaced every year although that is rarely observed) is probably five/six years old, the RAM and processor (average optimal life-span of 3-4 years on machines from that time) is just as old. I've had this computer with Windows XP for four years and it hasn't crashed once. Whether it's the hardware or the OS, when comparing up-to-date components doesn't show me any reason to favor Mac in that department.

Like one of the ads I've seen said, it's really easy to upgrade a Mac. You just throw it out the window and buy a new one. I don't have that kind of $$, and it's much cheaper to just gradually replace aging hardware in a PC if you know what you're doing. Granted, if you're clueless, then you might as well but a new one anyway, but PCs are still cheaper than Mac for that.

I am a programmer, and I thrive on Linux and Windows. Linux because it is ideal for an easy setup of a webserver (some packages even come with one built in), which is beneficial since I am a webmaster, and Windows because there are many easy-to-use programming environments for Windows. It's nearly impossible for someone working on Windows NOT to find a program that meets their programming desires. For a lot of projects, especially web-related ones, I'll do a lot of the code on Windows and just use Linux as a testing environment, but Macs don't seem as good at either, especially the webserver end, which I've never seen done on a Mac.

I must hand editing power over to the Macs, but then I don't care much because I don't do a lot of video editing. I create some Flash on a rare occasion, but even for that I'd just use the Windows version, which works like a champ.

The one time I prefer a Mac for my own personal use is when I record concerts. Although in general I don't like Mac interfaces as much, recording and audio work well on Macs, and they happen to be what's readily available for that purpose most of the time when I want to record.

On the security basis, again, this can come down to whether you cheap out on it or not. If you get XP Pro for example, it is much easier to have users set up with permissions systems. Anti-virus and firewalls aren't that expensive. Some are even free, and they work really well unless the user's stupid enough to let something through. I agree that it is majorly a matter of how much effort is put into setting it up properly.

Short version for those who didn't read my really long post (sorry):
New versions of Mac and PC are very similar in stability. Upgrading PCs is generally easier. Programming is easier on Windows and Linux. Macs are better at editing.

[Lil' Lavery]

Like one of the ads I've seen said, it's really easy to upgrade a Mac. You just throw it out the window and buy a new one. I don't have that kind of $$, and it's much cheaper to just gradually replace aging hardware in a PC if you know what you're doing. Granted, if you're clueless, then you might as well but a new one anyway, but PCs are still cheaper than Mac for that.
You can replace and upgrade macs as well...

[Kaizer007]

I have read every post (and every word) in this thread and want to sum it for the rest of everybody just joining the conversation.

Based on many people's views, the opinions are:
Windows:
Pros:
Has easy to use software (it's your familiarity with this OS)
Cheaper, replacing parts and computers in whole
Cheaper to upgrade
Great for programming and for games

Cons:
Prone to hackers because it is more widely used and for other reasons
Software has "holes" in it (allowing more hackers to get through)
Isn't as great with video and audio, but some disagree with this

MACs:
Pros:
Good for video and sound
Also easy to use sofware (it's your familiarity with this OS)
Looks prettier
More Hacker Proof

Cons:
More expensive
Not easy to upgrade


*Sorry if I missed anything, I don't have too much time.*
-------------------------------------------------

My personal view would be buy a computer with high speed and tons of RAM, and lots of storage space.

Then create partitions on the drives, or use a different drive for every Operating System you own. Also, keep all your software updated and protected with programs like (Zone Alarm for XP)

I personally Have a PC with Windows XP Professional and Slackware Linux and another PC with Windows 2000. I am a gamer and a programmer so I use PCs more often.


So if you didn't read this entire post: Both systems have their ups and downs, so buy them both and take advantage of it all. And don't forget about linux.

[GRaduns340]

You can replace and upgrade macs as well...
The hardware can be upgraded in most cases, but there are several firmware issues with a lot of hardware when used on Mac, since it is usually developed for PC and adapted the other way.

[Joohoo]

The hardware can be upgraded in most cases, but there are several firmware issues with a lot of hardware when used on Mac, since it is usually developed for PC and adapted the other way.

In my experiences that isn't the case they seemed to be more plug and play.

I think that this discussion is like the controls of a car. Every thing is there, it just takes a week or so to figure out where everything is and how it works.

[efoote868]

everyone knows that PC is clearly better :p

now, in all seriousness, if mac would let me make my own computer, customize it, etc., then I probably would be on a mac. but, i couldn't (easily), so, i'm not.

lets face it, if i mentioned mac before the ipod was released, the average windows person would be like, :confused: "huh?!?"


I wish google would make an OS, GOS. GOS would be sooo awesome, easy to use, easy to upgrade, etc. It would be free too, except you'd prolly have tons of ads on it.

[Mike Starke]

I think that this discussion is like the controls of a car. Every thing is there, it just takes a week or so to figure out where everything is and how it works.

This is true, when we got our Mac, it was pretty much take it out of the box and use it. When my brother got his laptop, he had to go through alot of different steps to get it set up. Both, do take set up steps, but to my memory, the Mac was easier.
Everything is different on a Mac, the close, minimize, and maximize is on the left, compared to the right on Windows, shortcuts, etc. It does take a little while, but once you get used to it, your set.
I think its best if you know both OS. It's pretty much nothing for me to use the Mac at home, and then go right to school and use Windows. However, if theres a case when you have to use the other OS your not used to, your not totally stuck, it just takes you a little longer. This should then be a challenge for all of us...
Take the OS your not used to, and spend some quality time with it. Get used to it, give it a chance... ;)

[Starke]

This is true, when we got our Mac, it was pretty much take it out of the box and use it. When my brother got his laptop, he had to go through alot of different steps to get it set up. Both, do take set up steps, but to my memory, the Mac was easier.
Everything is different on a Mac, the close, minimize, and maximize is on the left, compared to the right on Windows, shortcuts, etc. It does take a little while, but once you get used to it, your set.
I think its best if you know both OS. It's pretty much nothing for me to use the Mac at home, and then go right to school and use Windows. However, if theres a case when you have to use the other OS your not used to, your not totally stuck, it just takes you a little longer. This should then be a challenge for all of us...
Take the OS your not used to, and spend some quality time with it. Get used to it, give it a chance... ;)

My dear brother, I honestly have no idea what you are talking about. I got my Dell, I turned it on, made an account, and started it up. That was not any harder than the parents Mac.

I honestly like PC better for the simple reason of the programs I need. I use engineering programs (Solid Works, Inventor, Auto Cad) which to my knowledge can not run on a Mac. Just my honest opinion.

[RoboJedi75]

I think one of the major things is that Apple doesn't put a bunch of trial software on the computer. Most PC companies (especially Dell) put trial software on, which also helps offset the cost of a new computer.

If you don't want the trial software, it takes time to uninstall all of it.

Edit: And yea, Inventor and CAD aren't made for OS X.

[Lil' Lavery]

Edit: And yea, Inventor and CAD aren't made for OS X.
Drexel had some form of AutoCAD running on Macs. I was very intrigued by that. I knew they were making one for Mac, but I don't know how Drexel already had it.

[nextvex]

i just thought of something and why i would think a pc is better you cant use easyc :p with a mac although macs look awsome :D

[Cody Carey]

If you build your own PC, and buy your own version of windows, there is absolutely no Trial software installed. My windows installation came with movie maker, media player, media center, and for $60 I added Word, Excel, Outlook, and Powerpoint. Not to mention that I have Max and Inventor installed. The cost of my PC, which does Anything that I could want it to do , was under $600 (including office). You find me a mac with a 3.0 Ghz dual core Processor, a gig of ram, and a 256 mb video card that can do as much as my PC for less than $500, and maybe I'll switch to a mac.

Also, The reason windows is host to a slew of viruses and spyware is solely because of it's popularity. My computer also came with a firewall, so I don't have that problem. I assure you that a mac has just as many "holes" in security as a PC running Windows does, they just haven't been found yet. Give it time.

I'll give it to Mac... They do come "out of the box" with a whole lot more software than a PC with windows on it... However, I've done some research, and according to t THIS (http://arstechnica.com/reviews/hardware/G5.ars/1) website, I have about $2,800 worth of software to add to my PC before I reach the price you would pay for an equivalent Mac. I assure you that for $2,800worth of software, my PC would be a whole lot more functional.







... And there is the thing about Microsoft pulling mac out of the gutter nine years ago :)

[GRaduns340]

I think one of the major things is that Apple doesn't put a bunch of trial software on the computer. Most PC companies (especially Dell) put trial software on, which also helps offset the cost of a new computer.
That's exactly why I prefer to build. No trial software and it's just as cost-effective as buying through any of the big-name companies. In fact, depending on the provider and computer model you can sometimes make a far better computer for the same cost and not have to deal with their ads.

In response to the 2800 of software... that article was posted in September of 2004. Again, we should stick to comparing the current status of each OS.

[vadyr]

I used to be a PC user, and a few months ago I went out and bought on of the new MacBook Pro's....I LOVE IT!!! These days I'm still running my windows box for stuff, but 80% of everything I do, I can do on my Mac...and it's 10x better, smoother, and more efficient. The cool thing about the new Mac's is that you can run windows on the hard drive as well.

[Cody Carey]

In response to the 2800 of software... that article was posted in September of 2004. Again, we should stick to comparing the current status of each OS.

Thanks for pointing that out :) I hadn't noticed the date. how about This (http://www.applemugstore.com/catalog.php?p=c-nmp-z0d8-140774&PHPSESSID=f9bccdd2e50d2c1977aa07c2fbe1f3ac) one?

EDIT: This one isn't equivilent to mine either :mad: , anyone mind posting a link for a 3.0 ghz dual core mac with 1g of ram and a 256 mb vidoe card?

[Astronouth7303]

Ubuntu.

[Billfred]

Thanks for pointing that out :) I hadn't noticed the date. how about This (http://www.applemugstore.com/catalog.php?p=c-nmp-z0d8-140774&PHPSESSID=f9bccdd2e50d2c1977aa07c2fbe1f3ac) one?

EDIT: This one isn't equivilent to mine either :mad: , anyone mind posting a link for a 3.0 ghz dual core mac with 1g of ram and a 256 mb vidoe card?

Apple doesn't have any such configuration in the lineup. The iMac (http://store.apple.com/1-800-MY-APPLE/WebObjects/AppleStore.woa/wa/RSLID?mco=C1211F78&nclm=iMac) goes up to 2.16 GHz, while the only thing that hits 3.0 GHz is the dual-dual-core Mac Pro (which, for many tasks, is killing ants with a sledgehammer).

[chris31]

I would like Apple to make Mac OSX to run on any computer. I would buy a copy then. Right now I have to do that I have to use a hacked up copy of the OS which is not only illegal but a pain and it also is super buggy and supports very little hardware.

[Joe Matt]

Thanks for pointing that out :) I hadn't noticed the date. how about This (http://www.applemugstore.com/catalog.php?p=c-nmp-z0d8-140774&PHPSESSID=f9bccdd2e50d2c1977aa07c2fbe1f3ac) one?

EDIT: This one isn't equivilent to mine either :mad: , anyone mind posting a link for a 3.0 ghz dual core mac with 1g of ram and a 256 mb vidoe card?

Get it from the apple store, you can custom config to your heart's content...

[Jeremytice]

Macs are definately better in my mind. This is probably becasue I do lots of video editing and video editing and other stuff like visual/audio stuff is better on the macs. I would take a mac over a pc any day!

[Michael Hill]

Both Mac PCs and iPods are definitely crap-holes when it comes to audio. I know you guys say they're good for A/V, but they really aren't. sorry guys. They distort the sound so much in the lower register, people actually sell ear buds that correct for it. It's just bad...

[GRaduns340]

Both Mac PCs and iPods are definitely crap-holes when it comes to audio. I know you guys say they're good for A/V, but they really aren't. sorry guys. They distort the sound so much in the lower register, people actually sell ear buds that correct for it. It's just bad...
The keyword was a/v EDITING, at least from most of what I've read and understand. I agree, iPod is overhyped (thus I bought a Dell DJ instead), but as far as editing audio they are quick and efficient.

[Michael Hill]

It really depends on the software you use. I use Adobe Audition, which, I'm assuming works the same on a Mac as it does on a PC. Adobe usually does that. I do agree the iPod is overhyped. I have both a Dell DJ and an iPod. I only bought the iPod because my Dell's scroll button popped off and they stopped making them; thus I was stuck with an iPod (or maybe a Creative Zen, but I hadn't heard enough about them). So ya, for audio editing, to me, they are the same.

[Kyle Fenton]

Like one of the ads I've seen said, it's really easy to upgrade a Mac. You just throw it out the window and buy a new one. I don't have that kind of $$, and it's much cheaper to just gradually replace aging hardware in a PC if you know what you're doing. Granted, if you're clueless, then you might as well but a new one anyway, but PCs are still cheaper than Mac for that.

That not true. While the Pro level macs (Powermac & Macpro) are the easiest to upgrade (and in my opinion one of the best in the industry), all the others can be upgraded as well. It is not supported, but you can do it.

On the Pro level machines, you can replace just about anything, and with ease.

On the iMac Models you can replace everything but the video card. Its just a pain to take the front cover off

On the Macbook & Macbook Pro you can only upgrade the ram and the HD. But that is standard across all PCs

On the Macmini, you can pop off the front cover with 2 putty knifes and replace the basics

I know most of you are saying that it is much harder to replace the iMac and especially the Macmini. It is, but you have to realize that the average computer user, thinks of their computer like a toaster oven. It is just a tool to get simple things done, they don't care about upgrading it.



I am a programmer, and I thrive on Linux and Windows. Linux because it is ideal for an easy setup of a webserver (some packages even come with one built in), which is beneficial since I am a webmaster, and Windows because there are many easy-to-use programming environments for Windows. It's nearly impossible for someone working on Windows NOT to find a program that meets their programming desires. For a lot of projects, especially web-related ones, I'll do a lot of the code on Windows and just use Linux as a testing environment, but Macs don't seem as good at either, especially the webserver end, which I've never seen done on a Mac.


Mac OS X is a great development platform to program in. First of all you have Xcode, which the standard IDE for mac development. Plus you have all of the CHUD tools that are optimizers that you can use. The best part is that they are all free, you can download them off apple's website. It is about as good as Microsoft's visual studio which cost hundreds per license. You also have your standard java development ide's like eclipse and so forth.
Mac OS X also has apache and all of the standard web packages that go with it. You may have to edit some .conf files (like for PHP), but it is all there.


Anyways I have a been a Apple/Mac user all my life, and prefer it the most. But Linux and Windows are not that bad either. If you have worked with all 3, you will gain a better and richer experience in computers in general.

One of my main disappointments with windows, is not with windows itself, but with Microsoft's licensing. It is very confusing, sometimes misleading, and in my opinion charge too much for it. This is not just for windows too, this is all of their products like Windows, office, terminal services, IIS, MSSQL, project, visual studio, etc. For example in the upcoming version of Vista, they have 5 (or 4 I forget) versions of it just Vista for normal PCs, and several more for servers. Why? this causes confusion among customers, and creates headaches for IT people trying to fix these when there are some many versions out there . Vista in my opinion is too much money, they are asking for $200 for the home basic, all the way up to $500 for there extreme edition. Yes, there are upgrades available, but I have always had trouble with upgrades for Windows for one reason or the other. This is where the mac excels, you have one version for normal macs, and one for server, and thats it. Their prices are $129 ($65 for educational), and $199 for 5 licenses, and NO upgrades. It is simple and that is what most people like.

If you are ever in a business environment and you get Microsoft's volume licensing, it gets 10x more complex. They just have several headaches and restriction on what you can and can't do.

[[527]phil]

I just got my Dell inspiron this morning.Right out of the box i was connected to my network and I checked my E-mail, installed inventor and FEAR, and brought it to school. So it's not like you can't do ANYTHING with a PC right out of the box.

[Drew]

Here is the real question... Are you trying to do multiple things or just one thing? because mac is more for Photo editing or video editing or animation, while pc is more for All of the above and games and everything else.

[Billfred]

Here is the real question... Are you trying to do multiple things or just one thing? because mac is more for Photo editing or video editing or animation, while pc is more for All of the above and games and everything else.I suppose that means that the stuff I hear about being able to play World of Warcraft, RCT3, and et cetera is not necessarily true. :rolleyes:

I had another resident from my building chew me out today for putting an iMac G5 (generation before the iSight one, I think) in the computer lab, claiming it worthless unless you're a creative type. I'm about as uncreative as they come, and I still prefer OS X for just my day-to-day tasks. It might be an acquired taste, but if you give it a fair shake, it really can win you over. (That's from a decade-plus Windows user.)

[Joe Matt]

Here is the real question... Are you trying to do multiple things or just one thing? because mac is more for Photo editing or video editing or animation, while pc is more for All of the above and games and everything else.

Right. So I'm imagining myself typing away on office, or sending email, or playing games on my Mac? I see. Is it that your PC can do all of that as good as a Mac, or are you sour graping us?

[Michael Hill]

HAHA, being productive at work on a Mac...classic! I also think it's hilarious that "Mac" from the Mac vs. PC commercials isn't doing it anymore.

They're stopping the ads as well...

http://www.theinquirer.net/default.aspx?article=35620 (note, not the National Inquirer)

I love the title of the story. "Apple fires 'smug little twit'. No the other one"

[Joe Matt]

HAHA, being productive at work on a Mac...classic! I also think it's hilarious that "Mac" from the Mac vs. PC commercials isn't doing it anymore.

They're stopping the ads as well...

http://www.theinquirer.net/default.aspx?article=35620 (note, not the National Inquirer)

I love the title of the story. "Apple fires 'smug little twit'. No the other one"

Lets go the Justin's site (aka Mac) and see what he says

http://www.justinlong.net/ubbthreads7/ubbthreads.php

Why look at that, you're wrong again. Go troll somewhere else please.

[KelliV]

HAHA, being productive at work on a Mac...classic!
I just finished an 6 hour editing session on a mac (one of five in the last week) and got an entire 30 minute show finished. Last time I checked that was quite productive.

[RoboJedi75]

Mac OS X doesn't have as many applications to choose from as Windows does, that doesn't necessarily mean that they're any worse, in fact all the Mac programs I have used have done things as good as, and better, than the windows programs I use. That's productivity to me.

And you have to remember that building a PC is most always going to be cheaper than buying one, because the labor factor has been changed. If you want to build a PC, well... try putting a price tag on your time.

I definitely think that once you get used to the Mac (and the program) interfaces, it is easier to deal with everyday.

[Cody Carey]

Hmmm... after thinking long and hard, all I can come up with is this:

It is your money, do with it what you want. If you like Macs, buy a Mac, and if you like PCs, then buy one.

This argument is getting everybody nowhere fast.

[Eric W. Jones]

A PC is for those who wish to have a top-end system that can store the library of congress and such odd, while macs are for those users who don't really need all that much processor speed and don't want messy automatic Windows updates. This is an oversimplification, but essentially true.

(I really dislike Windows, by the way)

Apples are tasty.

[efoote868]

one thing i hate about windows is its registry, and settings inside of it. Looking at the registry of a 6 year old windows machine with many users is a nightmare, and windows could have done alot better job with it. Also, the "autoprotect" features are laughable... most of the time the bug gets into the machine long before it goes to work.

You just don't see macs getting viruses, although i'm sure that theres several reasons behind it (popularity being one of them).

I haven't used macs enough to make informed decisions... but let me tell you, after struggling with WMM for several hours to get a semi-decent 10 min movie done, i'm willing to shell out the $$.

[6600gt]

one thing i hate about windows is its registry, and settings inside of it. Looking at the registry of a 6 year old windows machine with many users is a nightmare, and windows could have done alot better job with it. Also, the "autoprotect" features are laughable... most of the time the bug gets into the machine long before it goes to work.

You just don't see macs getting viruses, although i'm sure that theres several reasons behind it (popularity being one of them).

I haven't used macs enough to make informed decisions... but let me tell you, after struggling with WMM for several hours to get a semi-decent 10 min movie done, i'm willing to shell out the $$.

Just go buy Adobe Premier Elements.

Apple comes with decent software. Windows doesn't but that doesn't mean they just don't exist. You just have to buy them. But a PC is cheaper than a Mac to begin with.

Apple: for people who don't like to deal with the reality of computers. Good looking but expensive.

Windows: for people who love to screw with their computers. Can do everything but it requires a little more work.

[Billfred]

Apple: for people who don't like to deal with the reality of computers. Good looking but expensive.

Windows: for people who love to screw with their computers. Can do everything but it requires a little more work.Oy with the generalizations already! I can do anything I want with my iBook--I simply choose not to. And for the vast majority of people like me (alright, nobody's exactly like me, but you get the idea), that's fine.

And I'll further note that your assertion of Windows being "for people who love to screw with their computers" is a double-edged sword. I administer the building's computer lab--three Dells, one iMac. To lock down the iMac to my desired state (no changing the settings for normal users, only certain worthy programs, no utilities, saving files is fine), I just log out the lab account, log in as the administrator, go System Preferences->Accounts, click the lock, enter the my password again for security, and go to town. If someone made a valid case for me to unblock, say, iChat on the computer, I could do it in about four clicks from there.

On Windows, I have to root around in Group Policy (which took much Googling for me to even know about--it is by no means a visible option) to achieve a similar effect of locking down the desktop--but I can't keep the users out of programs they can install without administrator priviliges, and it also keeps me from setting the Administrator's desktop the way I want it.

If I were charged with purchasing computers right now for that lab, I'd be looking at a set of Mac minis and perhaps one well-equipped iMac for Parallels and heavier lifting. Why? Because they're easy to administer, reasonably durable, have a great operating system, have a great support group behind them (take THAT, eMachines and Dell!), and I just prefer 'em.

[Cody Carey]

As it turns out, we stand on the shoulders of giants. ;)

http://www.smh.com.au/articles/2003/10/10/1065676145670.html
http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&ct=res&cd=2&url=http%3A%2F%2Fmacvspc.info%2F&ei=O89bRYDXMqbkoALOw6T2Cw&usg=__kw75SuZ8Jeb2RKKRWX6g6ZOwtzY=&sig2=nP8TH_GQ4ZAIB1gBtTRr6Q
http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&ct=res&cd=5&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.epinions.com%2Fcmhd-Apple-Topics-1&ei=O89bRYDXMqbkoALOw6T2Cw&usg=__Pq1x__ZrqrbH_Ipzy2ubOlDMBEw=&sig2=L3lrnaipwZKqWhLMKoPU2Q
http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&ct=res&cd=3&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.jmusheneaux.com%2F&ei=O89bRYDXMqbkoALOw6T2Cw&usg=__8pnc6xSNQeMNrriYsTqT-rXKrts=&sig2=4CT8nk86cKAceLonXnBWbQ
http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&ct=res&cd=13&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.epinions.com%2Fcmd-review-64C6-B21728E-39C22EE9-prod1&ei=b9dbReisB5PMpwKnt8zxCw&usg=__gs6lYcfEffXIdwsgeZS-jbEhebk=&sig2=Qi6-GT1HE-SWAf_L_06pyw


The first listed page is the least biased in one direction, and while I don't necessarily agree with the outcome (whodathunk?), it is the most accurate. It is also a useful tool in the argument because it breaks the comparison down into multiple sub-categories, and for that reason gives a more accurate report when looked at on those sub-levels. What I don't agree with, however, is that the system is not weighted. Appearance gets the same amount of points as performance, which gets the same ten points as cost. Mac got 5 of its overall points from appearance, and without those, it would not have won, but I have always been a function over form guy myself.


All of the pages following the first are obviously biased, and are just linked to so that I can show how overly "beat-up" this argument is.

If you think about it, it is just like the engineer bot argument in FIRST.

-Cody C

[Michael Hill]

You guys aren't going to believe this, but I used a Mac today. It wasn't as bad as I expected. All I had to do was check something on a website. Though I'd have to say the bouncing icons at the bottom of the screen were annoying. I hated Safari though. If I use a Mac again, I'll definitely use Firefox. I didn't like the feel of the keyboard, but the look of the computer was definitely pretty sleek. I feel a little better about Macs. I was messing with Photoshop, and everything was the same, which was cool. I do like how they crammed all the computer in the monitor, though.

[shawger]

Maybe I'm just weird, but I find Macs to be almost totally unusable. This probably has to do with me not using them very much, but the reason still stands.

Another thing I dislike about them is their incredibly proprietary nature. They force you to use all their software and all their hardware. I'd like a nice open system that works with nearly any hardware and has a ton of software.

Linux ftw! </shameless linux plug>

[KelliV]

Broke my MacBook Pro again... I am going to send it back to Mac... there is definatly something wrong with it. I guess that is a good thing about Macs. They have nice people at the stores that can help me fix my problems. Our campus rep is pretty cool too.
FYI the darn laptop goes from half battery to no battery in a matter of around 4 seconds and shuts itself off. It may just be a software problem.

[Michael Hill]

Broke my MacBook Pro again... I am going to send it back to Mac... there is definatly something wrong with it. I guess that is a good thing about Macs. They have nice people at the stores that can help me fix my problems. Our campus rep is pretty cool too.
FYI the darn laptop goes from half battery to no battery in a matter of around 4 seconds and shuts itself off. It may just be a software problem.

Something wrong with a Mac!?!?! NO WAY! I've heard those things are supposed to be perfect!!11!1oneone!!1

[Billfred]

Something wrong with a Mac!?!?! NO WAY! I've heard those things are supposed to be perfect!!11!1oneone!!1(sigh) I decline comment, other than to mention that no system is absolutely perfect.

Broke my MacBook Pro again... I am going to send it back to Mac... there is definatly something wrong with it. I guess that is a good thing about Macs. They have nice people at the stores that can help me fix my problems. Our campus rep is pretty cool too.
FYI the darn laptop goes from half battery to no battery in a matter of around 4 seconds and shuts itself off. It may just be a software problem.That's some form of software glitch alright, probably something in the battery not communicating the right battery level to the computer. Luckily, it shouldn't be particularly hard to get it shipped off to Apple (or taken to a Genius Bar if there's one nearby). Hooray for next-day air!

[trilogism]

Now with Boot Camp (free), you can run windows on your mac, and people say that it runs windows better than on a PC's hardware. I'm personally never going to get a PC again, since mac has better quality hardware and can run any windows software better.

[shawger]

Now with Boot Camp (free), you can run windows on your mac, and people say that it runs windows better than on a PC's hardware. I'm personally never going to get a PC again, since mac has better quality hardware and can run any windows software better.

That's FUD and you know it. If you get a Windows PC with the same hardware as a Mac, then it will perform the same. A 2Ghz Intel processor does not magically perform better inside of a shiny white box. Also, Macs do not necessarily have better quality hardware. Their low-end systems just happen to be on a higher end than Dell/HP/IBM's low-end systems. Now that Apple's have Intel processors, you should be able to get the exact same hardware no matter who you're getting it from.

Now if you get Dell's budget system and Apple's budget system your comment would be true, but the computers do not have comparable hardware.

[Ryan Dognaux]

Broke my MacBook Pro again... I am going to send it back to Mac... there is definatly something wrong with it. I guess that is a good thing about Macs. They have nice people at the stores that can help me fix my problems. Our campus rep is pretty cool too.
FYI the darn laptop goes from half battery to no battery in a matter of around 4 seconds and shuts itself off. It may just be a software problem.

If there's one thing I like about Apple, it's their customer service and their careplans. Buy them - the longest one possible. I bought a 2 year one on my 4th gen iPod. It just broke a week ago for the 2nd time, but it's painless to send to them. Apple pays for the shipping, they send me the box, I send it to them, and I'll get a new / refurbished iPod very quickly. Apple knows what they're doing when it comes to customer service.

[Bill Moore]

Broke my MacBook Pro again... I am going to send it back to Mac... there is definatly something wrong with it. I guess that is a good thing about Macs. They have nice people at the stores that can help me fix my problems. Our campus rep is pretty cool too.
FYI the darn laptop goes from half battery to no battery in a matter of around 4 seconds and shuts itself off. It may just be a software problem.
Possibly, but a few years back (maybe 5?) this same problem occurred on IBM Thinkpads. The problem was that the batteries are not 1 single cell, but a set of 3 or 4 cells in the battery case. What was happening was that the on screen gauge would read "combined" power from the cells, but did not read the individual cell voltages. That was watched and controlled by battery software. It is important not to completely drain a cell, so when the minimum voltage on a cell was reached, it shut the computer down, regardless of whether the other cells were full or not. Folks experienced the same thing you describe, start up at 80 to 100% power and having it shut down for low power within a 10 minute period.

If you could borrow a battery from someone else and test it in your laptop, you could give the Apple technician more information. Alternatively, you could suggest that they check the individual cells at the repair center.

[KelliV]

Luckily, it shouldn't be particularly hard to get it shipped off to Apple (or taken to a Genius Bar if there's one nearby).
I am going to take it to the Michigan Avenue store this weekend. I cannot go to the one at Woodfield, I ran into a few problems there last time and they pretty much won't let me back (they thought that I stupid becuase I was a girl and I defended myself verbally).

[+()c|D]

i was wondering witch is better a pc or a mac
Personaly, I think that a PC is better, because, partially, it is a much broader term. With an Apple, it has its OS, and it is an apple, where as a PC could be a dell, IBM, etc. Also, as far as i know, you cannot build your own mac, like with a PC.

(by the way, I happen to dislike Macs)

[Mazin]

Boot camp is a joke. I can personally choose to boot Windows, Mac, and a couple kinds of Linux on my computer. People claim Boot Camp magically can make Windows run on a Mac, but what's stopping Windows from running with an Intel processor and standard generic equipment? People could dual-boot stuff on Macs for ages.
And anybody who points to Boot Camp as beneficial has obviously never used it because it is a pain to dual-boot stuff.

The "Mac is better for creative types" argument is also a joke. The "creative types" really use it because it makes themselves feel cool. There is no advantage. At all. There is no Mac-only software that would keep the creative types on Mac.
I believe that Ubuntu is comparable to OS X, except Ubuntu is free. They both come bundled with a bunch of software. Ubuntu is actually easy to use. They've made the interface pretty obvious, and probably matches the Mac for usability. If you want to, you can make Ubuntu's graphics hundreds of times slicker than Mac's (with Beryl (http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-3304682858126153303&q=beryl) and a decent graphics card), but it looks fine as it is (if orange doesn't bother you).
Ubuntu and Mac both share the same lack of commercially developed software, but there is a huge and thriving community around Linux.
Ubuntu and Mac also have problems with Windows networking, but most of the time it can be figured out easily.
Ubuntu is more versatile and most importantly, free.
As for the Mac...
The "Mac is more secure" argument is worthless. Yeah. Everybody already acknowledges that Windows is more popular and thus gets attacked like crazy. I have never gotten a virus or been hijacked by adware on Windows, and others, with a little common sense (i.e. don't install junk) can be perfectly safe.

Most of the PC/Mac commercials are a joke. I'm scared to imagine how many people feel for them.

And mykill, no more flamebait.

I acknowledge that:
Yes. Macs do look nice in a shiny white box.
Yes. Macs have a cooler environment

In the end, if you're going to choose a "weird" non-Windows OS, try Ubuntu first (it can be run without installing). It has the advantage of not requiring a $2000 shiny white box.

[Gabe]

Will people please not bite my head off if I say that I like both Macs and Windows?

Seriously, neither one is perfect. I personally am writing this on an HP laptop with Windows, which is my own personal computer. The reason why I chose a Windows operating system is that early on I had decided that I was going to be running AutoCAD and possibly Inventor. (This was before the announcement of Apple switching to Intel). However, the rest of my family uses Macs, and I definitely like how user-friendly these computers are. My high school is changing over to Macs, so I get exposure there. Macs are a little different to navigate and the keyboard shortcuts are annoyingly different than Windows, but you get used to it. I don't play games or listen to music on my computer, so I have no preference toward Macs or Windows on that.

It all depends how you use your computer. I only really need Internet access, Microsoft Office, AutoCAD. When I need to view a video or listen to audio, QuickTime or Windows Media Player works for me. I hope to add Inventor and Photoshop to my repertoire in the near future. With all of that, I have been very happy with Windows. As for what is the better choice, you have to try out both and not make decisions based on first impressions.

[Kyle Fenton]

Boot camp is a joke. I can personally choose to boot Windows, Mac, and a couple kinds of Linux on my computer. People claim Boot Camp magically can make Windows run on a Mac, but what's stopping Windows from running with an Intel processor and standard generic equipment? People could dual-boot stuff on Macs for ages.
And anybody who points to Boot Camp as beneficial has obviously never used it because it is a pain to dual-boot stuff.

What are you talking about? Before macs went with Intel processors, they were equipped with PowerPC processors, and could only boot Mac (classic & X), and a few linux distributions (like Yellow Dog Linux). x86 Macs uses EFI (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Extensible_Firmware_Interface), which is the next generation of firmware which windows doesn't support (except in their 64 bit edition). What Boot Camp does is allows you to partition your hard drive, and creates a virtual BIOS, which can allow Windows to boot up on an x86 mac. Boot Camp is also very easy to use, and doesn't need you to reformat your hard drive.

The "Mac is better for creative types" argument is also a joke. The "creative types" really use it because it makes themselves feel cool. There is no advantage. At all. There is no Mac-only software that would keep the creative types on Mac.
I believe that Ubuntu is comparable to OS X, except Ubuntu is free. They both come bundled with a bunch of software. Ubuntu is actually easy to use. They've made the interface pretty obvious, and probably matches the Mac for usability. If you want to, you can make Ubuntu's graphics hundreds of times slicker than Mac's (with Beryl (http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-3304682858126153303&q=beryl) and a decent graphics card), but it looks fine as it is (if orange doesn't bother you).
Ubuntu and Mac both share the same lack of commercially developed software, but there is a huge and thriving community around Linux.
Ubuntu and Mac also have problems with Windows networking, but most of the time it can be figured out easily.
Ubuntu is more versatile and most importantly, free.
As for the Mac...
The "Mac is more secure" argument is worthless. Yeah. Everybody already acknowledges that Windows is more popular and thus gets attacked like crazy. I have never gotten a virus or been hijacked by adware on Windows, and others, with a little common sense (i.e. don't install junk) can be perfectly safe.

Most of the PC/Mac commercials are a joke. I'm scared to imagine how many people feel for them.

And mykill, no more flamebait.

I acknowledge that:
Yes. Macs do look nice in a shiny white box.
Yes. Macs have a cooler environment

In the end, if you're going to choose a "weird" non-Windows OS, try Ubuntu first (it can be run without installing). It has the advantage of not requiring a $2000 shiny white box.

Now this is just a rant. Just because you haven't used Mac OS X doesn't make it bad. That is just plain ignorance. While Linux (including) has definitely make good strides, it is still no where near the ease of use of proprietary systems. You have to realize that the majority of people don't want to use CLI's in terminals, and install packages or rebuild kernels. Most people don't even know what that is.

The reason why macs have always been associated with creative people is partly because of historic reason, and partly because of technical reasons. Historically Macs have had the third party software in the past (Photoshop, premiere, avid, etc). Technically macs have always been easier in handling media files better than windows. They also have more accurate colors pallets, better frameworks, APIs, and generally been well supported over the years. Final Cut studio is also a major reason why mac is still in the forefront of creative professionals. Yes there are always comparable programs on different OSs, but that’s not the point. The OS needs to be built so these programs can perform there best, and Apple has always put lots of effort into this.

[Billfred]

I believe that Ubuntu is comparable to OS X, except Ubuntu is free. They both come bundled with a bunch of software. Ubuntu is actually easy to use. They've made the interface pretty obvious, and probably matches the Mac for usability.I dig Ubuntu--if I'm in need of a Linux distro, I go to them--but Mac OS X wins on one key thing for the Average User (and the Not-So-Average User): Hardware compatibility.

I installed the 64-bit version of Ubuntu on my desktop PC (yes, I own one, to stay fluent in both), and my network card wouldn't work. It took much digging and Googling through several forums to find an obscure patch to get it working. This had to be downloaded to my iBook, then transferred to a flash drive, then transferred to the PC, where it was applied in the Terminal. Now, I can survive that. My less-tech-savvy, one-Dell-toting mother would probably have a coronary doing it. (Actually, wait, bad example; she'd just call me to do it.) I've reinstalled OS X on a couple of systems, with no such issues.

Just like a pair of AndyMark shifters are pretty much useless without a good pneumatics system (servo shifter notwithstanding), an operating system is nothing if it can't support the hardware it runs on. By limiting Mac OS X to Apple hardware, Apple can optimize things a bit more and deliver a much-improved operating system experience. I bet they could come out with a $199 junk box just as well as anyone putting them out next week--they just choose to aim higher in their hardware designs.

[Michael Hill]

I dig Ubuntu--if I'm in need of a Linux distro, I go to them--but Mac OS X wins on one key thing for the Average User (and the Not-So-Average User): Hardware compatibility.

I installed the 64-bit version of Ubuntu on my desktop PC (yes, I own one, to stay fluent in both), and my network card wouldn't work. It took much digging and Googling through several forums to find an obscure patch to get it working. This had to be downloaded to my iBook, then transferred to a flash drive, then transferred to the PC, where it was applied in the Terminal. Now, I can survive that. My less-tech-savvy, one-Dell-toting mother would probably have a coronary doing it. (Actually, wait, bad example; she'd just call me to do it.) I've reinstalled OS X on a couple of systems, with no such issues.

Just like a pair of AndyMark shifters are pretty much useless without a good pneumatics system (servo shifter notwithstanding), an operating system is nothing if it can't support the hardware it runs on. By limiting Mac OS X to Apple hardware, Apple can optimize things a bit more and deliver a much-improved operating system experience. I bet they could come out with a $199 junk box just as well as anyone putting them out next week--they just choose to aim higher in their hardware designs.


Were you using a wireless network card? Particularly a Linksys WUSB11 (or something like that), all linux distros had trouble with the v2.6 Atmel firmware version. I had that problem, but when the latest release of Ubuntu came out, my network card just worked.

[Billfred]

Were you using a wireless network card? Particularly a Linksys WUSB11 (or something like that), all linux distros had trouble with the v2.6 Atmel firmware version. I had that problem, but when the latest release of Ubuntu came out, my network card just worked.
Nope. Normal, standard, integrated 10/100 Ethernet.

[Michael Hill]

Nope. Normal, standard, integrated 10/100 Ethernet.

That's really odd. Normally they support standard hardware like that.

[chris31]

usually they support standard wired cards. I installed Fedora Core 6 today to see what changed still working on getting my it to accept my wireless card.

[GRaduns340]

After scanning the last couple of pages that have developed much more rapidly than the first dew I get the idea that this isn't going anywhere, but I'll put in a few more words anyway.

In my opinion the argument that Apple customer service is better is true, but that's almost unavoidable. Apple makes the majority of their own hardware and software, thus they can easily support it all relatively easily. Get any other company trying to do that and they call it a monopoly? Microsoft, which was almost entirely software, gave it a shot and they were considered a monopoly and now Apple is making practically the entire computer of their own parts, and outselling everyone with the iPod and now it's "business competition."

With PC we get a combination of hardware coming from several different companies, thrown together quickly enough to meet the constant demand, and the company that builds it can only provide moderate service. It's hard for any one company to service an entire computer when the parts came from seven different companies and who knows what software's been installed either before or after it got to the final user.

About the Apple hardware fitting in the monitor, what happens when the monitor dies? That has very little to do with any of my perspective, just a question to ask if that's why you like them.

[Michael Corsetto]

About the Apple hardware fitting in the monitor, what happens when the monitor dies? That has very little to do with any of my perspective, just a question to ask if that's why you like them.

I've had my Power PC iMac for 2 years, and the monitor hasn't died yet, but it also has a mini DVI video output jack, just in case :p

I personally love the OS X UI and its ease of use. I've had an iMac for 2 years now and I've been more than happy with it. Although I spend almost all of my time on my mac, I will be the first to admit that Windows is a necessity (for a now at least) because of OS specific programs, like Inventor. Thats why I have a PC constantly running about 5 feet away :D

If you've never used a mac before, try it out. Don't shoot it down without a giving it a shot. (pretty punny huh?)

Mike C.

BTW: I think boot camp is awesome, and will be dual booting as soon as I get my Macbook Pro. I might even triple boot to linux as well.

[efoote868]

hey, no bashing just because of differing opinions!!!

pc/mac really is a personal preference, right?

[Cody Carey]

Lets start looking at the current arguments instead of just restating them.

A number of people have said that mac is better for video editing... Why?
The industry standard for video editing is "Adobe Premier Pro", and according to this (http://www.adobe.com/products/premiere/systemreqs.html) Page, Mac OSX is not supported.Also, according to this (http://dvcreators.net/discuss/showthread.php?t=8540) page, Final Cut Pro has a cart-load of limitations as compared with Premier Pro.

As another point, I have heard mention of the fact that Mac can run both OSX and Windows... And According to this (http://www.pcworld.com/article/id,125393-page,1/article.html) article, There is a down-side to that as-well.

As for the "Windows has inherent security flaws that Mac's stable UNIX base just doesn't have" argument, take a look at this (http://www.zdnet.com.au/news/security/soa/Ancient_flaws_leave_OS_X_vulnerable_/0,130061744,139234678,00.htm) article and tell me what you think. I believe that it shows that the above argument can henceforth be ignored.

The last Noticeable argument that I have seen is the ability to do MUCH more with a mac out of the box than with a PC, But with a day on the INTERNET and such resources as http://www.openoffice.org/ , this (http://www.techsupportalert.com/best_46_free_utilities.htm) article, and http://www.download.com/ , A PC can be just as, if not more, functional than a Mac out of the box.

[artdutra04]

I think everyone in this thread needs to take a step back from their computer, count to ten, and relax. We are talking (sometimes in an over-zealous manner) about the differences between one plastic and metal box with another plastic and metal box. That's all. ;)


Nothing is perfect in life, neither Windows nor Macintosh. Maybe if you're an 31337 h2x0r then Windows, or if you're really hardcore, Linux, are the operating systems for you. But if I had to recommend an OS for anyone else, I'd give them Macintosh any day.

If you love Windows, then more power to you. But I reached the end of the line with Windows, and I don't feel like laying track to continue onward. Their marketing and products have begun to come off more and more "empty", in the same sense of the "emptyness" of dot-com companies prior to the 99-00 market burst. I see smiling people in MS advertisements, but I never see what makes them so happy. I haven't been amazed by a Microsoft product since Windows XP unveiled the "Image Thumbnail" feature in Windows Explorer.

In stark contrast to this, Apple and Google have always continued to amaze me. iPod. GMail. Google Earth. Picasa. iMovie/iDVD. iLife. GMail Chat. These two companies never stop creating things that actually do something, and do it well. Both Google and Apple have found the sweet spot in application innovation, that can allow for a surprising number of advanced features to be packed into a user-friendly and intuitive environment.

Maybe I'm just not in the Microsoft demographic anymore. If so, then arguing this thread further is pointless. Trying to argue sides will not change minds, only embattle us deeper. For me, Microsoft and Windows are a lost cause. So long and thanks for all the fish. ;)

[Bill Moore]

We are talking (sometimes in an over-zealous manner) about the differences between one plastic and metal box with another plastic and metal box. That's all. ;)
It's humorous though, Art, that these arguments seem to pop up on a periodic basis, as if folks are trying to validate their own choices more to themselves than to the world.

[RANT ON] :mad:
Why should you care if the world thinks differently than you do? If Dean Kamen followed the crowd would FIRST even exist?

Pick the system that is right for you and don't look back. I use both systems for specific reasons, and if someone asks for an OS recommendation, I have two caveat questions I ask:

1) Do you plan to run a specific software title (to identify any OS specific need)
2) If you have trouble and you call your best friend for help, what OS system do they run (don't handcuff their friends from helping them troubleshoot a problem)

I had a frenetic father pouring out his angst back in 1999 - 2000 (during Apple's death spiral) because the school his daughter attended was still using Macs. He was so fearful that his daughter wouldn't be trained properly to join the workforce when she finally finished school. What made this so pathetic was that his daughter was only in 4th grade. I avoided the question, "So if you daughter learns to drive a Ford, she will be lost if she gets a Chevy from the rental car company?"

That's really what this argument boils down to folks: Can you adapt to something new?

If all the wasted energy directed at each other's OS were directed at the companies (MS and Apple), we would already have a true voice activated system and do away with one-button or two-button mice altogether. Instead, we let them get away with icing the cake two or three times without adding any true substance to the computing environment.
[RANT OFF]

[Michael Hill]

Seriously, if you listen to anyone with knowledge about computers, listen to Mazin. He's pretty darn amazing with computers, he has much more knowledge about them than most people here, and he's only a sophomore in high school. Rock on Eric. Also, I guess here's the thing; if you like to have a customizable machine to no end, have total control over your machine, have compatible software, but are willing to pay the price of doing work to keep your machine working, a PC is for you. If you don't have a whole lot of technical knowledge or don't care about controlling your computer, and want something that just works, get a Mac.

I think that should summarize this argument.
Windows:
Customizable to no end, supports most software, total control over system, vast knowledge base, also for people who like fixing computer problems (like me ;) ), industry standard, better networking, more software available.

Mac:
Runs usually without hitches, not so customizable, better aesthetics (though I disagree), works most of the time, very little software available.

[JaneYoung]

At work we have Macs and PCs. The university uses Macs but 2 of our attorneys prefer PCs. One of the reasons is the software that we need for some of our documents.

My G4 is easy for me to navigate and it puts out the work. (Actually, scratch that, now I have an iMac Intel Core Duo sitting on my desk. It seems really fast.)

At home we have PCs and Macs. Depending on who is on what is where I am, usually on a PC. I work at home as well and my PC puts out the work.

(I drive a Ford :D)

[Mazin]

I'm sorry. I was among those that helped turn this into a flame war.

But still... @Kyle Fenton

I can point out that
A) I have used Windows (since 3.1), Mac (since 9), and Linux (since Breezy).
B) I have never had to rebuild kernels. I use a CLI to run highly experimental programs (as I would hack a Mac similarly). Installing packages from a repository is easier in some cases than downloading software from the Internet.
C) Many Linux distros HAVE been ported to PPC, notably Gentoo and Ubuntu.

Now, I hope that you see I do have a reason for saying what I did, and that you refrain from calling my post a rant, and saying that I'm ignorant.

In the end, they all are nearly equal. Windows, Macintosh, and Linux all have their respective advantages and disadvantages. Certain applications (not programs) call for certain things. You will never see Mac on a wristwatch nor will you see Windows on a supercomputer.

I think this thread needs to closed if the flaming continues. And my post to be NOT deleted.


See the rest if you're still confused.
What are you talking about? Before macs went with Intel processors, they were equipped with PowerPC processors, and could only boot Mac (classic & X), and a few linux distributions (like Yellow Dog Linux).* x86 Macs uses EFI (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Extensible_Firmware_Interface), which is the next generation of firmware which windows doesn't support (except in their 64 bit edition). What Boot Camp does is allows you to partition your hard drive, and creates a virtual BIOS, which can allow Windows to boot up on an x86 mac. Boot Camp is also very easy to use, and doesn't need you to reformat your hard drive.**


Now this is just a rant. Just because you haven't used Mac OS X doesn't make it bad. That is just plain ignorance. While Linux (including) has definitely make good strides, it is still no where near the ease of use of proprietary systems. You have to realize that the majority of people don't want to use CLI's in terminals, and install packages or rebuild kernels.† Most people don't even know what that is.

The reason why macs have always been associated with creative people is partly because of historic reason, and partly because of technical reasons. Historically Macs have had the third party software in the past (Photoshop, premiere, avid, etc). Technically macs have always been easier in handling media files better than windows. They also have more accurate colors pallets, better frameworks, APIs, and generally been well supported over the years. Final Cut studio is also a major reason why mac is still in the forefront of creative professionals. Yes there are always comparable programs on different OSs, but that’s not the point. The OS needs to be built so these programs can perform there best, and Apple has always put lots of effort into this.

*I know that. There were several others ported. Linus himself has been using Macs for a long time (with Linux, that is).
**Specifically, I pointed out that it's annoying to have to restart the computer every time one needs a specific program. There's also problems if Windows can't read HFS and you need a file from that partition.
†I don't build stuff myself. I just choose the pre-built packages in the repositories. I don't want to make assumptions, but I assume you haven't used Linux.

[shawger]

Installing packages from a repository is easier in some cases than downloading software from the Internet.

This has got to be one of the main reasons why I like Linux so much. As far as I know, neither Windows or Apple has anything that can remotely compare to it. Let's say I want to install inkscape. I type "emerge inkscape" (on Gentoo Linux) and all the dependencies are automatically figured out, and the software is downloaded and installed automatically. I can update all the programs on my system by typing "emerge --sync" and "emerge avuD world".

If that's not simple then I don't know what is.

Now I'm not saying there aren't reasons to use other operating systems. Windows has all the high-end commercial software, and Macs (supposedly) are quite polished. In the end, you have to figure out which advantages you really want, and which disadvantages you can live with.

[Kyle Fenton]

I'm sorry. I was among those that helped turn this into a flame war.

But still... @Kyle Fenton

I can point out that
A) I have used Windows (since 3.1), Mac (since 9), and Linux (since Breezy).
B) I have never had to rebuild kernels. I use a CLI to run highly experimental programs (as I would hack a Mac similarly). Installing packages from a repository is easier in some cases than downloading software from the Internet.
C) Many Linux distros HAVE been ported to PPC, notably Gentoo and Ubuntu.

Now, I hope that you see I do have a reason for saying what I did, and that you refrain from calling my post a rant, and saying that I'm ignorant.

In the end, they all are nearly equal. Windows, Macintosh, and Linux all have their respective advantages and disadvantages. Certain applications (not programs) call for certain things. You will never see Mac on a wristwatch nor will you see Windows on a supercomputer.

I think this thread needs to closed if the flaming continues. And my post to be NOT deleted.


See the rest if you're still confused.


*I know that. There were several others ported. Linus himself has been using Macs for a long time (with Linux, that is).
**Specifically, I pointed out that it's annoying to have to restart the computer every time one needs a specific program. There's also problems if Windows can't read HFS and you need a file from that partition.
†I don't build stuff myself. I just choose the pre-built packages in the repositories. I don't want to make assumptions, but I assume you haven't used Linux.


First of all I would like to apologize on giving you negative rep. It wasn't really about your post, but it was because I was mad about something else that day. I just took my anger out on you. It was very immaturish.

Your original post may have been a little vague, and I might of not quite understand what you were trying to convey. Everyone is entitled to their opinion on which solution is best for them. However I do get a little irked when people I talk to are saying something that is just flat out untrue. Not you, but other people who I am trying to convince that there are alternatives to computer products. This includes linux & mac os X

Anyways I have used all 3 OS's. I do admit that I use Linux the least amount of times. But at the same time, it is very much like Mac OS X in many ways. Most of the times I use a linux machine is when I SSH into a file/web server.

Linux is not bad at all, I just would not recommend it for non-technical people. But like I said in my previous post, everyone should use all 3 OS’s, and that by using multiple OS you get a richer experience in computers in general.

[DonRotolo]

...Find a friend or an old library computer running Mac and see how you like it.
My problem is all my friends are running some kind of proprietary wetware OS, and none of them will let me see the source code. :rolleyes:

Listen folks: A computer is a tool. Like a screwdriver. You can buy a cheap screwdriver, you can buy and expensive screwdriver. Even a different brand, and they come with different tips, too. The point is, if it works well as a tool for you, it is defined as good. If it doesn't, it is defined as bad. Every person gets to define whether it works or not, and no two will agree in every case. Pick one, or the other, and be happy with it. Just because I prefer a different OS doesn't mean a thing.

The power of diversity.

Don

"When I'm watchin' my TV
And a man comes on to tell me
How white my shirts can be
But he can't be a man 'cause he doesn't smoke
The same OS as me..."
- (apologies to...) Mick Jagger (I can't get no) Satisfaction