2006 Toronto Championships

[fredliu168]

Hey, whos going to the 2006 Vex GTA competition on November 25th at the Ontario Science Center?

Also, are you guys ready? (done building the robot yet)

[KathieK]

Ah, can't get up to Canada that weekend, so please post pictures for us all!

[Karthik]

I'll be there with bells on.

Since 2003 the Ontario Science Center has hosted a Edurobotics/Vex tournament, although this is our first official FIRST tournament. Each of these tournaments has been intensely spirited and featured some great competition. It's also been the grounds for the debut of many rookie teams, who have gone on to amazing success in the FRC. Teams 1006, 1114, 1219, 1241, 1305, 1503, 1547 (among many others) all got their first taste of competition at the OSC. These seven teams alone have now gone on to win 12 regionals, 6 regional finalists, 4 Chairman's Awards, 5 Engineering Inspiration Awards and 8 Rookie All-Star Awards! I'm sure history will repeat itself this year with the rookies.

[Jonathan Norris]

610 will hopefully be coming with our newly created VEX team, constructed mainly of grade 9 and 10 students from the FIRST team. Now all we got to do is get the robot finished in time... ahh sounds vaguely similar to FRC.

[Alex Cormier]

I might make the trek up to canada to see this competiton go down! Looks like the team and robot will not follow but i am eager to see this!

[Ben Piecuch]

I browsed the event website but couldn't find any details.

Who won? How were the VEX bots? How did the competition play out? Any pictures?

Geez, one would think we're all on a holiday here or something. Oh, wait...

BEN

[Lil' Lavery]

Geez, one would think we're all on a holiday here or something. Oh, wait...

They're in Canada, where it's not a holiday ;)

[fredliu168]

simbotics and the other niagra team obviously won. Also, one of the woburn teams won. The event kinda got dull after simbotics won every single game. The most exciting match was actually when the other niagra team got disabled and it because 2 on 1. I think it more or less evened the teams.

The woburn teams (6) were pretty good, their backwards shot was fast and effective.

lol our team got so owned... we went for 1 pointers, but we had no autonomous, a bad drive train with no advantages, and we couldnt even manipulate the atlas ball. (we basically built the robot the night before)

Oh well, we won the Connect Award, so I'm happy.

[Imprudent]

Well, as most of you know our team 1281 (our rookie year in VEX) made it to semi finals and had to face off against Simbotics. . .no surprise we lost. However. . .we did do fairly well int he first round against them (lets not add in that they had a crystal issue so we had to redo the match) Anyways, as disappointed as we were, it was an amazing experience. Congratulations to all the teams who participated!

[Alex Cormier]

ANY pictures? i am really interested in this extreme pwn'n robot from niagra.

[Imprudent]

Just think a triplet sucking mechanism. . only 18"x18"x18"

[KathieK]

Nice Press Release (http://www.ccnmatthews.com/news/releases/show.jsp?action=showRelease&searchText=false&showText=all&actionFor=623875 ) on the event!

[Karthik]

The FVC Ontario Championship was a huge success and a great time. 28 teams from across the province competed in a tournament that was filled with some intense matches. Congratulations to all teams, especially FVC-1305 on winning The Inspire Award.

Here are the results I remember off the top of my head. (I left all my notes at the venue)

Champions:
1114 - Governor Simcoe SS - Simbotics
3075 - Beamsville SS - The Buccaneers
3338 - Woburn CI - Junior Blizzard

Finalists:
3339 - Woburn CI - Phoenix
0610 - The Crescent School - Coyotes #1
1246 - Agincourt CI - Agincourt Robotics

Inspire Award: 1305 - Near North Student Robotics Initiative
Think Award: 1219 - Emery CI - Iron Eagles
Innovate Award: 610 - The Crescent School - Coyotes #1
Connect Award: 3267 - Unionville HS
I'm not sure of the winner of the Amaze award.

Special thanks to all the amazing volunteers who kept the event running smoothly.

[Jonathan Norris]

This was a great event, very well run event. Thanks to all the volunteers for making it a great day, many of them from Niagara FIRST crew and 188. Thanks to Karthik for doing a great job of announcing as usual. I don't know if i can count how many events i have seen Karthik MC for, but every time he has amazing energy. On of the surprising thing is that i saw more media attention at this VEX competition then at GTR. The only problem was crystals... Vex really needs to make special competition crystals.

It's hard to say how good fvc1114 is.... because they are AMAZING! they can score 2 in auto then pick up 6 more, or pick up 2 and score 4 in auto. Then they can clear the field of soft balls and fill up the goals. They can score so many balls that the atlas ball doesn't matter. There were many other competitive vex bots, 3075 (similar to 1114), 1305, 1281, 1246, and the 6 Woburn bots were great (2 of them made it to the finals), there were more but i can't remember...

Thanks again for a great event.

[VEN]

Great Event Guys. I enjoyed it a lot.

[fredliu168]

Champions:
1114 - Governor Simcoe SS - Simbotics
3075 - Beamsville SS - The Buccaneers
3338 - Woburn CI - Junior Blizzard

Finalists:
3339 - Woburn CI - Phoenix
0610 - The Crescent School - Coyotes #1
1246 - Agincourt CI - Agincourt Robotics

Inspire Award: 1305 - Near North Student Robotics Initiative
Think Award: 1219 - Emery CI - Iron Eagles
Innovate Award: 610 - The Crescent School - Coyotes #1
Connect Award: 3267 - Unionville HS
I'm not sure of the winner of the Amaze award.


The amaze award was won by Toby from Woburn. I think he was team 3341 or 3342, cant remember.

Gonna upload some vids of the event later on. DLing from disk atm.
Anyone know team 1114's weight? Especially for the arm. They must have geared down their robot drive train and arm by a huge ratio in order to have the torque to lift 6!!! balls. (almost 1kg in just balls)

[Michael Leicht]

does anyone have more pictures of 1114 or any other robots at this compeition?

[Karthik]

On this coming Wednesday, November 29th, at 7:00 PM, look for a 6 minute spot about the Toronto FVC Championships to air on the Discover Channel Canada's "Daily Planet". Should be great!

Also, here are the full standings and alliances from the tournament. The standings are from the Team 1114 scouting database, and are not 100% verified.

Team Avg QP Avg RP Max Score
01 1114 2.0 31.3 128
02 3342 2.0 18.8 61
03 3339 2.0 18.0 95
04 1814 2.0 14.3 53
05 0610 1.5 24.5 61
06 3343 1.5 13.8 83
07 3075 1.5 12.5 94
08 3341 1.5 11.8 69
09 3059 1.5 11.0 61
10 3381 1.5 04.0 69
11 3288 1.3 13.8 128
12 1281 1.0 26.3 69
13 1305 1.0 18.3 61
14 3463 1.0 05.0 94
15 3552 0.8 00.5 2
16 1564 0.5 18.0 40
17 0907 0.5 13.5 39
18 1309 0.5 13.3 61
19 3338 0.5 08.3 27
20 3409 0.5 08.0 29
21 1219 0.5 06.5 14
22 3221 0.5 05.3 34
23 3460 0.5 00.0 15
24 3267 0.3 11.5 46
25 3335 0.3 10.0 26
26 1246 0.0 18.0 30
27 3340 0.0 16.0 47
28 3478 0.0 07.5 12

Alliances

1 1114 3075 3338
2 3342 1814 1309
3 3339 610 1246
4 3343 1281 1219
5 3341 1305 3340
6 3059 3381 3335
7 3288 3552 1564
8 3463 3409 3460

All elimination series were won 2-0

Quarterfinals
1 def 8
4 def 5
2 def 7
3 def 6

Semifinals
1 def 4
3 def 2

Finals
1 def 3

[Bongle]

Mmmmm... readability. The world needs more monospaced fonts.

Team Avg QP Avg RP Max Score
01 1114 2.0 31.3 128
02 3342 2.0 18.8 61
03 3339 2.0 18.0 95
04 1814 2.0 14.3 53
05 0610 1.5 24.5 61
06 3343 1.5 13.8 83
07 3075 1.5 12.5 94
08 3341 1.5 11.8 69
09 3059 1.5 11.0 61
10 3381 1.5 04.0 69
11 3288 1.3 13.8 128
12 1281 1.0 26.3 69
13 1305 1.0 18.3 61
14 3463 1.0 05.0 94
15 3552 0.8 00.5 2
16 1564 0.5 18.0 40
17 0907 0.5 13.5 39
18 1309 0.5 13.3 61
19 3338 0.5 08.3 27
20 3409 0.5 08.0 29
21 1219 0.5 06.5 14
22 3221 0.5 05.3 34
23 3460 0.5 00.0 15
24 3267 0.3 11.5 46
25 3335 0.3 10.0 26
26 1246 0.0 18.0 30
27 3340 0.0 16.0 47
28 3478 0.0 07.5 12

[Synergy1848]

why does the simbotics site not work?

[Steve W]

why does the simbotics site not work?


http://niagarafirst.org/index.php

It worked for me

[Ian Curtis]

So, the question remains, does anyone have pictures of 1114's vex bot? If they don't can someon explain to me how they managed a "triplet sucker" with Vex Legal Materials? Did they use tank treads? Also, how'd the game play out. More defensive? Was hanging important?

[Steve W]

They used all legal VEX parts. They could indeed pick up and deliver 6 balls. You may not see a picture of their robot until championships. Why you ask? With VEX there is nothing from stopping teams from cloning their robot. Why would they want that. Each team should design their own robots for competition. That's what FIRST is about. You have been inspired by 1114 in the past and I know that will happen again this year. Try to build a robot to compete with them not the same as them. When you succeed then it will be your work and ideas that have come to the front.

[astephen68]

Hey I enjoyed the Event too. Does anybody know what place 1281 Mustang robotics came in. Also does anybody have any pictures of team 1281 mustang robotics.

[gblake]

http://niagarafirst.org/index.php

It worked for me Steve - That link is to the Niagra First site.

The fellow who asked why the site doesn't work may be getting the same error report as I when he clicks on the icon that takes him from the Niagra First site to the Simbotics site.

The XML page cannot be displayed
Cannot view XML input using style sheet.
Please correct the error and then click the Refresh button, or try again later.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
System does not support the specified encoding. Error processing resource 'http://simbotics.homedns.org/?p=default&skin...

Blake

[gblake]

You may not see a picture of their robot until championships. Why you ask? With VEX there is nothing from stopping teams from cloning their robot. Why would they want that. Each team should design their own robots for competition. That's what FIRST is about. You have been inspired by 1114 in the past and I know that will happen again this year. Try to build a robot to compete with them not the same as them. When you succeed then it will be your work and ideas that have come to the front. Steve, This ability to modify bots between ccompetitions (or even between matches) is one of the elephants in the corner of the FVC "room".

Would you want to ask any and everyone who has a picture of the 1114 Toronto Bot to not post it anywhere on the internet?

Would you want to ask all teams that saw the bot (and all the other bots), and are going to participate in another Championship, to not use any ideas they picked up from other teams during the Toronto Championship? Or is it OK to only use ideas from teams that didn't do as well as 1114?

In the exreme, would you want to urge teams not to look in textbooks to get ideas instead of thinking them up on their own (of course not, but I am exaggerating to make a point)?

I suspect that the Genie is out of the bottle any time a team participates in a Championship, a scrimmage, a practice, an exhibition/demo, etc.

I suggest that trying to keep 1114's Toronto bot hidden from all teams that were not at the Toronto Championship (after exposing it to all the teams and all the cameras that were there) is not going to work.

Isn't there a better alternative that involves bragging about the cleverness in the current bot and then building an even better one for 1114's next competition?

Maybe this is a topic for a new thread?

Blake

[Steve W]

Steve, This ability to modify bots between ccompetitions (or even between matches) is one of the elephants in the corner of the FVC "room".

Would you want to ask any and everyone who has a picture of the 1114 Toronto Bot to not post it anywhere on the internet?

Would you want to ask all teams that saw the bot (and all the other bots), and are going to participate in another Championship, to not use any ideas they picked up from other teams during the Toronto Championship? Or is it OK to only use ideas from teams that didn't do as well as 1114?

In the exreme, would you want to urge teams not to look in textbooks to get ideas instead of thinking them up on their own (of course not, but I am exaggerating to make a point)?

I suspect that the Genie is out of the bottle any time a team participates in a Championship, a scrimmage, a practice, an exhibition/demo, etc.

I suggest that trying to keep 1114's Toronto bot hidden from all teams that were not at the Toronto Championship (after exposing it to all the teams and all the cameras that were there) is not going to work.

Isn't there a better alternative that involves bragging about the cleverness in the current bot and then building an even better one for 1114's next competition?

Maybe this is a topic for a new thread?

Blake

First of all I am not on 1114 and have no say in what they say or do. I was just posting a possible reason for no pictures being posted. You seem to think that I have a problem with sharing ideas. Absolutely not!!!! This year our team is adapting a team 25 drive train idea for our robot. This however is a drive train that they have used for years and I asked if we could use the idea. In FRC there are some restraints that prevent teams from cloning other teams during competitions. These are not in effect with VEX. I have heard of reports of teams showing up at VEX championships totally changed and imitating other winning teams. Yes this is a complement but is it fair to those who came up with a great idea, worked out the problems and want to play against others with their great ideas. This is a dilemma that is hard to answer.

FIRST is a great program with many diverse thoughts and ideas. To state that either one of us is right would take away the very base that makes FIRST so good. I have found one thing though about FIRST and the rest of the world. Those that brag about their accomplishments only put themselves in bad light with everyone around. It takes away the good that could ever come from a great idea or job. I also know the great mentors and a lot of the students on 1114. They are a great bunch of people with hearts of gold. They go out of their way to help others. They are not boastful or proud. BUT they are also competitive. They like and want to win and I think that they make a great addition to FIRST because of ALL of these traits.

[Steve W]

Steve - That link is to the Niagra First site.

The fellow who asked why the site doesn't work may be getting the same error report as I when he clicks on the icon that takes him from the Niagra First site to the Simbotics site.

The XML page cannot be displayed
Cannot view XML input using style sheet.
Please correct the error and then click the Refresh button, or try again later.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
System does not support the specified encoding. Error processing resource 'http://simbotics.homedns.org/?p=default&skin...

Blake

I just tried the folowing link and it seems OK at this time:
http://simbotics.homedns.org/?p=default&skin=default

[gblake]

Those that brag about their accomplishments only put themselves in bad light with everyone around. When I loosely used the word "brag" i meant it in the sense of "Proudly sharing", not in a "Hey look at me - I'm better than you" sense.

I have heard of reports of teams showing up at VEX championships totally changed and imitating other winning teams. That is definitely going to happen and is 100% fair according to the rules.

So long as the rules remain unchanged, the only way I can think of to stay ahead of it, is to constantly improve your strategy, your mechanisms, your software, your collaboration with your allies, and your driving. Once a machine is unveiled, the FVC rules allow other teams to absorb it's design in whole or in part into their machines.

I have been assuming that team with a truly complete full-season strategy will look forward to this; and will keep one or two tricks up their sleeves that they use to sustain a winning streak, rather than showing all of their cards in their first competition.

Blake
PS: I know what I espoused above is way, way easier said than done.....

[gblake]

Maybe this is a topic for a new thread?
BlakeFolks - See the new thread created by BillFred at http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=50231

[VEN]

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v238/iBeenOnMars/vex13.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v238/iBeenOnMars/vex12.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v238/iBeenOnMars/vex11.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v238/iBeenOnMars/vex10.jpg

[VEN]

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v238/iBeenOnMars/Vex9.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v238/iBeenOnMars/Vex8.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v238/iBeenOnMars/Vex7.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v238/iBeenOnMars/Vex6.jpg

[VEN]

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v238/iBeenOnMars/Vex5.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v238/iBeenOnMars/Vex4.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v238/iBeenOnMars/Vex3.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v238/iBeenOnMars/VEX1.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v238/iBeenOnMars/Vex2.jpg

[Karthik]

Attached are the official match scores from the event.

[Alex Cormier]

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v238/iBeenOnMars/Vex6.jpg

hey, what's the purpose of the track?

[Ben Piecuch]

hey, what's the purpose of the track?

I believe they used the tank tread as chain, instead of using the actual chain and sprocket kit. I haven't done any testing, but I would bet that the tank tread is at least twice as strong as the chain. With an arm that size, it seems like a pretty good idea!

Just for future thought, it is perfectly legal to actually cut the "pads" of the tank tread off, and use the links themselves as chain. But, at $30 for the kit, I understand why you wouldn't want to do that!

BEN

[Lil' Lavery]

I believe they used the tank tread as chain, instead of using the actual chain and sprocket kit. I haven't done any testing, but I would bet that the tank tread is at least twice as strong as the chain. With an arm that size, it seems like a pretty good idea!

I believe you are correct. I think they mentioned that in another thread. Also, from my expierience, a single chain is rarely enough for most purposes, so if you don't have room or enough space for a tank tread, try using 2 chains. The chains are nice for low stress applications, but when made of plastic, tend to break for arms and more powerful herding devices, etc.

[Alex Cormier]

I believe you are correct. I think they mentioned that in another thread. Also, from my expierience, a single chain is rarely enough for most purposes, so if you don't have room or enough space for a tank tread, try using 2 chains. The chains are nice for low stress applications, but when made of plastic, tend to break for arms and more powerful herding devices, etc.

interesting. Im just getting into the fvc so i don't know all the little tricks like i do for FRC.

gots get the ball roling for the comp soon!

[Imprudent]

Lets just say 1281 is kind of a ... lower budget robotics program ... so we use what he have and make the best of it

And actually, the trades worked a lot lot better than we expected. They didn't break once during the building process or the competition and they allowed the arm to have enough flexibility to score in the top goal and hang.

[astephen68]

WHat Compitions are good to go to?

[rjmah]

Had a great time at Toronto FVC. Thanks to 3339 and 610 for letting 1246 work with them and get to be finalists. I have limited video footage.

A couple of observations:
- I helped one team sort out Master Code problems. It's been noted here before but there are two Version 7 Master Codes. One for EasyC and one for MPLab. Use the right one otherwise your autonomous mode won't execute.
- Many teams can score approximately the same number of balls. The game is then won or lost with the Atlas ball. The more balls there are, the less important getting on the platform or hanging becomes.

Here's one of our practice Videos:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4dHooNEPkfw

One Semifinal game:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T9mHzRT1Zew

[astephen68]

Nice. Good job. Which alliance did you guys play in the semi-finals?

[Jonathan Norris]

Here (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PopRsOJHNWc) is a link to a great video which looks like it was produced by the Ontario Science Center highlighting the event. It shows the great variety of robots we saw that day, and I like that FVC610 is highlighted at the beginning, and our second bot with that deadly winch hang.

[VEN]

Hey guys, sorry that I haven't replied in a while. Yes the tank treads are very strong and hold up well. We originally geared them very low but in order to compete at the kickoff on january 6th we're considering making the gearing higher for faster ball unloading.

Cheers

Vova

[astephen68]

Good Video of the Compititi:) on!!!!!!

[astephen68]

DO You have any vido on the semi-finals and finals???