Bluetooth Headsets+Drive Teams=?legality?

[Nawaid Ladak]

Im thinking about hooking up my drive team (the mentors for all three allince teams, plus anouther member of our team in the stands.) with bluettoth headsets so that it wil be easier to communicate bewteen each other douring a match.

is that legal.

[Kyle]

Yea I pretty sure that it is, I can't quote a specific rule but I am sure someone in the next 3-4 posts will find it for you.

[Wetzel]

Im thinking about hooking up my drive team (the mentors for all three allince teams, plus anouther member of our team in the stands.) with bluettoth headsets so that it wil be easier to communicate bewteen each other douring a match.

is that legal.

Ask again later. The rules for 2007 are not out yet and can change year to year. However, in years past this has not been allowed.

Wetzel

[DjAlamose]

Seeing that tomarrow we will have a brand new set of rules, I am going to wait to post any rules (even rules from last year).

[Greg Marra]

In the past, even hand signaling between a non-drive-team member and a drive-team member has been illegal.

[Nawaid Ladak]

i remember that my old team used to scream RAMP with 20 seconds left from the stands at UCF. it sometimes worked. idk.

but what about communicating within your alliance. like team A mentor Team B mentor and team C mentor all on a three way call in their respective drive stations on the red alince.

so what, this wasn't legal in previous years???

[Greg Perkins]

Nope. The only way/form of communications in years past have been behind the driver station between the drive-teams. No radios, cameras, or cell phones are to be used during a match; there are some "grey areas" in this rule that some teams step on the edge between grey and black. I know of a few teams who have people positioned around the field to give help to the drivers, however this is illegal and they rarely ever get asked to sit down. Rules are rules.

[Jeff Rodriguez]

i remember that my old team used to scream RAMP with 20 seconds left from the stands at UCF. it sometimes worked. idk.

but what about communicating within your alliance. like team A mentor Team B mentor and team C mentor all on a three way call in their respective drive stations on the red alince.

so what, this wasn't legal in previous years???

There was a team that tried using an intra-alliance comm system with headsets. It sounds like a good idea, but I'm not sure how well it worked.
Personally, I would never rely on a device another team made to communicate with them, nor would I expect other teams to use something I made.

[eshteyn]

Hey guys, here is my question, i have an amateur radio license and so does the mentor of our team, was it allowed to use a hand held amateur radio to communicate between the pits and competition floor between matches in the past years??

[chris31]

I think that because it is a wireless communication it isnt. But then again I heard that they used wireless video cameras. So wait till the rules come out.

[IndySam]

3.14.3 Pit and competition Safety
Two-way radios: Not allowed in the Pit or near the playing field since they may interfere with robot operation and cause accidents

[eshteyn]

3.14.3 Pit and competition Safety
Two-way radios: Not allowed in the Pit or near the playing field since they may interfere with robot operation and cause accidents

Even if the radios are of the amateur radio service and work at a much higher frequency than the robot radios?

[Dan Petrovic]

Even if the radios are of the amateur radio service and work at a much higher frequency than the robot radios?

It's better to be safe than sorry.

[eshteyn]

It's better to be safe than sorry.

Point taken, thank you

[Dave Flowerday]

Even if the radios are of the amateur radio service and work at a much higher frequency than the robot radios?
Standard disclaimer applies that all discussion here is based on the rules as they existed in 2006 and prior, which may change this year (though I'd say it's unlikely)...

The rule was as stated above. There were no exceptions mentioned. If it was a two-way radio then it was not allowed, plain and simple.

Now, to provide a little reasoning to that, even if you're using a radio that operates at a different frequency it can still cause interference. All radio transmitters create "harmonics" which are signals at frequencies other than the intended transmit frequency. For example, if you were using a UHF radio around 450MHz, the first harmonic would be right around the frequency in use by our FIRST robots (900MHz). Depending on the power output and quality of the radio, this could easily be enough to cause interference with the radios in use on the robots. The radios we're using are only outputting signals in the milliwatt range, so even a 5W handheld could easily dominate them.

Further, from an administrative point of view, I'm sure FIRST does not want to burden volunteers with having to inspect a two-way radio to ensure that it will not interfere. It's easier to just make a blanket rule disallowing any of them and then the volunteers don't have to understand which frequencies are OK and which aren't, they can simply ask anyone using a radio to stop.

[IndySam]

Standard disclaimer applies that all discussion here is based on the rules as they existed in 2006 and prior, which may change this year (though I'd say it's unlikely)...

The rule was as stated above. There were no exceptions mentioned. If it was a two-way radio then it was not allowed, plain and simple.

That is from this years manual.

[Dave Flowerday]

That is from this years manual.
Yup, that's right... I forgot that they have already posted the non-game specific stuff.

[Rick TYler]

Would it be legal for us to stretch a string from the coaches' station up into the stands for a tin-can radio? I mean, it's not actually forbidden in the rules...

[Lil' Lavery]

Would it be legal for us to stretch a string from the coaches' station up into the stands for a tin-can radio? I mean, it's not actually forbidden in the rules...

I'm going to guess that it's a tripping hazard, and therefor a safety issue. And once the game rules are announced, it will probably be illegal. There is typically a rule stating something along the lines of "Drive Teams are not allowed special equipment unless they can demonstrate the need for it" (basically only allowing crutches/wheelchairs/etc.).

[eshteyn]

I'm going to guess that it's a tripping hazard, and therefor a safety issue. And once the game rules are announced, it will probably be illegal. There is typically a rule stating something along the lines of "Drive Teams are not allowed special equipment unless they can demonstrate the need for it" (basically only allowing crutches/wheelchairs/etc.).

Maybe its just me, but have the rest of you noticed the more and more restrictions applied to the game in the past years?

[N7UJJ]

I remember a few years ago, even cell phone use was not allowed in the pits due to possible RF interference. A cell phone, after all, is a wireless tranceiver. I don't think anyone enforces that ban anymore (if it is still baned), certainly not in the stands, but a cell phone is a wireless device.

[Elpants]

Maybe its just me, but have the rest of you noticed the more and more restrictions applied to the game in the past years?


Cause bending rules is the way to go:yikes:

[JamesBrown]

Maybe its just me, but have the rest of you noticed the more and more restrictions applied to the game in the past years?

I wouldn't say more rules, just more specific rules. Things that were in the gray area last year are specifically allowed or not allowed now. This will allow for better continuity between regionals. Over all I think it is better. It isn't fun to compete one weekend with out problems only to have to change things a couple of weeks later to adapt to different interpretations of the rules.

[Rick TYler]

I'm going to guess that it's a tripping hazard, and therefor a safety issue.

Heh, I already thought of that. All sharp edges on the can will be sanded smooth and covered in foam gaskets. The string will be orange, and "CAUTION" tape banners will be hanging from it.

[Protronie]

Hey guys, here is my question, i have an amateur radio license and so does the mentor of our team, was it allowed to use a hand held amateur radio to communicate between the pits and competition floor between matches in the past years??


There is a rule about no walkie talkies ...rather that extends to you handheld ham rigs?
I would think so... :eek:

Nice thought .

[hallk]

It is going to be hard to see the other side of the Rack this year. Maybe having team members with dry erase boards or something on the other side would help. Note I don't mean on the field I mean that the other team members would still be in the stands. This will be hard depending on where you are sitting and the arena but in the past it has been easier because the human player wasn't always behind the alliance zone-like in the '04 or '05 game with the tetras.

[finni]

2007 FRC Manual 3.14.3: Two-way radios: Not allowed in the Pit or near the playing field since they may interfere with robot operation and cause accidents.

[Noah Kleinberg]

It is going to be hard to see the other side of the Rack this year. Maybe having team members with dry erase boards or something on the other side would help. Note I don't mean on the field I mean that the other team members would still be in the stands. This will be hard depending on where you are sitting and the arena but in the past it has been easier because the human player wasn't always behind the alliance zone-like in the '04 or '05 game with the tetras.

This is sort of stretching the rules... I think if you have some member of your drive team watching the projection screen, presuming that there's a real time scoring type of thing up, you should be able to get enough information to at least tell where there are tubes.

[Pavan Dave]

This is sort of stretching the rules... I think if you have some member of your drive team watching the projection screen, presuming that there's a real time scoring type of thing up, you should be able to get enough information to at least tell where there are tubes.


Maybe giant mirrors???? hehe. Just joking guys. It is not in the spirit of FIRST to bend the rules, and find loop holes, but in the real world loop holes and technicalities are the way to get the job done efficiently. So do we listen to real world survival techniques or Dean and Woody's booster speech?

Pavan.

[k3`]

Aren't they supposedly the same? :P