Creative uses for the USB Port [Archive]

Zero-Bee

06-01-2007, 16:30

Years of requests finally pays off. We now have USB control imput, which sent a collective nerdgasm across the world today.

But, what do you want to do with it? There's has got to be some crazy cool ideas you thought of at the announcement. Here, we disregard programming skill or other factors; let the ideas flow like water. Anything works.

My first idea was when David announced the ability to target 5 targets with the camera. Before the game was reveiled, I thought it would be sick to be able to create a ball turret that could hit in 5 different places, controlled by the PS2 (or upcoming Xbox 360) Guitar Hero controllers. Wouldn't exactly work for Rack 'n' Roll, thou. =P

Anyone else?

CBailey

06-01-2007, 17:43

i think it would be awesome to use an xbox 360 controller to control the robot
their would be so many possibilities and you may only need 1 driver/operator
i like the new part and hope my team will consider using it to add some excitement to the usually boringa controls

efoote868

06-01-2007, 19:02

hook it up to a laptop... and the possibilities are endless.

maybe a video camera too, and then use mini game pieces to control it.

Cyberguy34000

06-01-2007, 19:19

Rick-906

06-01-2007, 19:23

NICE! now i feel boring... i was just imagining joysticks and xbox controllers, i like the suggestion of a laptop. is it allowed?

Dave Flowerday

06-01-2007, 19:30

is it allowed?
No, since the laptop is battery powered.

Besides, the Chicklet is a USB host. Laptops are also hosts. Two hosts cannot simply talk to each other (without special hardware and software in between).

JBotAlan

06-01-2007, 19:30

is it allowed?
Per <R83>, no.
<R83> All equipment connected to the joystick ports of the Operator Interface must be powered
solely through the power available through the port. External power sources of any type are
not permitted on any equipment connected to the joystick ports. Portable computing
devices can not be connected to joystick input ports on the Operator Interface. Power-passive
devices (e.g. joysticks that draw their power solely through the Operator Interface
joystick port) are permitted. The one exception to this rule is Innovation First Incorporated
USB adapters (IFI Part Number USB-CHICKLET) may be used to connect USB devices to
the joystick ports of the Operator Interface. If used, this USB adapter must be powered with
a 7.2V battery similar to the back-up battery. Teams can not use power from the
competition port or any other source to power the USB adapter. The USB adapter must be
positioned within the OPERATOR CONSOLE so that the indicator lights may be seen during
inspection and operation in a match.

I'm still not sure what the reasoning is behind this, but there it is. Sorry.

JBot

EDIT: Well, someone beat me to it. Oh well.

bobotics319

06-01-2007, 19:35

nintendo wii... that would be so much fun!

Dianna Bartone

06-01-2007, 20:05

First thought that came to my mind...

Dance Dance Revolution!

Show off your killer robot and your mad dancing skills all at once! Keep the rhythm in your feet as your robot flies 'round the field, danc'n to da beat!

Break it doooown!

Now that would be funny!

their would be so many possibilities and you may only need 1 driver/operator
If that is the case, is there anything helpful we could use the second driver for? It was probably left in the rules in case someone did want to use old system, but maybe there could be a potential advantage to be gained...

Travis Hoffman

06-01-2007, 20:21

USB Chicklet User's Guide on IFIrobotics.com (http://www.ifirobotics.com/docs/usbchicklet-usermanual-rev1-1.pdf)

There is a supported devices list - the XBOX360 controller is one such device.

Here (http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/showthread.php?t=48865&highlight=usb+serial) is the thread that discusses this device in more detail.

NeedMoreEngines

06-01-2007, 20:27

Noah Kleinberg

06-01-2007, 21:15

If that is the case, is there anything helpful we could use the second driver for? It was probably left in the rules in case someone did want to use old system, but maybe there could be a potential advantage to be gained...

The second driver can pass tubes to the human player if you find that that helps. Probably because you can only hold one tube on the robot at once, the human player won't really be rushed. The second driver could also help to coach the main driver, or help communicate from your drive team to the other drive teams on your alliance

Dan Petrovic

06-01-2007, 21:37

A GUITAR HERO CONTROLLER!! come on how cool would that be.

To move the robot you play Smoke on the Water and to operate the arm you play the riff from Crazy Train.

The whammy bar can be the claw grabber.

And to make the robot spontaneously combust you play any Dragonforce solo.

:ahh:

I was talking about that with my sister. lol.

And a couple of years ago we had a bunch of joke ways to control the robot. Like guitar, keyboard, beatboxing, and my favorite, turn tables.

That's right. You scratch records to drive your robot. Haha. So good. :D

JamesBrown

06-01-2007, 21:46

Keep in mind that you are still limited in as to how many buttons are available to you even though you are plugging into usb it is really still limited by gamport capabilities.

Arkorobotics

06-01-2007, 22:42

A PS3 controller would be nice! It has USB!

intellec7

06-01-2007, 23:21

Per <R83>, no.

I'm still not sure what the reasoning is behind this, but there it is. Sorry.

JBot

EDIT: Well, someone beat me to it. Oh well.

I believe the reason is so that one may not offload the RC using, for example, a laptop on the OI side. By receiving sensor info via the dashboard port and sending PWM info and digital output info through the joystick ports, this would be possible.

Ericgehrken

06-01-2007, 23:48

How about a simplified computer keyboard?
How about a USB computer mouse?

bear24rw

06-01-2007, 23:53

What about a computer keyboard and a mouse, and you could use drive your omni drive bot FPS style..

IA-Howitzer

07-01-2007, 00:17

Thats the best idea ever! We could have mad dance offs and robotics in one!

Matt H.

07-01-2007, 00:47

The problem with using items such as an Xbox360 controller or a PS3 controller is that while you have a USB interface it is still limited by the amount of data transfer offered by the game port. An USB device will have its functions limited by this lack of transfer power. It will only be possible for a user to define several buttons and joy sticks as specified on the USB Chicklets website.

Nawaid Ladak

07-01-2007, 00:56

nintendo wii... that would be so much fun!

exactly what i thought. the remote can be used for the arm and the numbchuck for the well... movement of the robot...

any ideas

but how hard would it be to do a ps3 or a wii controler, bc of the motion sencor

hey, what about vibrate when you come n contact with anouther robot.

now that would be fun

Noah Kleinberg

07-01-2007, 01:22

exactly what i thought. the remote can be used for the arm and the numbchuck for the well... movement of the robot...

any ideas

but how hard would it be to do a ps3 or a wii controler, bc of the motion sencor

hey, what about vibrate when you come n contact with anouther robot.

now that would be fun

The only thing is that the wii controller and probably the ps3 controller also requires batteries, and I think that this is not allowed. Also remember that you still are limited to 3(?) analog inputs per port.

Mike Copioli

07-01-2007, 09:21

The only thing is that the wii controller and probably the ps3 controller also requires batteries, and I think that this is not allowed. Also remember that you still are limited to 3(?) analog inputs per port.

This is not the case. The O/I ports have 4 analog and 4 digital. The analog usage is user selectable. There are 4 modes for all of the gamepads including the x-box/360. Mode 1, for example, uses two analog channels for the y axes on the left and right. The other two analog channels are alllocated for digital use. The Chicklet uses the upper nibble of each analog byte which gives you 4 extra digital per analog channel. So the total available digital slots in mode 1, is 12. I think 12 is enough. If it is not, then give some tasks to the other operator.

Thanks, Mike Copioli
CTRE

KevinH

07-01-2007, 13:28

Using a Guitar Hero controller is key. 7 buttons, 1 two way switch and of course, an analog input whammy bar.

There's also of course midi keyboards, but you could always get something like the DX1 input system and just build your operator controls with that. I'd love to see a laser keyboard too. Maybe a fragpedal... This was a smart move, opens a lot of possibilities to teams that wouldn't have the time or resources to build controllers themselves. I do hope that there's still plenty of custom controllers too though, PS2/PS3/Xbox controllers aren't the end all be all...

Sidney San Martín

07-01-2007, 13:39

their would be so many possibilities and you may only need 1 driver/operator

With creative control design, it's always been possible to have one driver. FIRST allows two so that they can share the task of controlling the robot, not operating it. Two minds are better.

KevinH

07-01-2007, 13:55

With creative control design, it's always been possible to have one driver. FIRST allows two so that they can share the task of controlling the robot, not operating it. Two minds are better.

/agree, especially given the complexity of this years scoring, keeping track of 5 robots beyond your own and general FoV issues, there's a lot to be lost in trying to have only one person responsible for controlling the robot.

ZeetherKID77

07-01-2007, 14:50

Nobody mentioned the Beatmania controller? Although you'd need a convertor for it...And the PS3 controller doesn't vibrate, only the Wii controller does.;)

When they were talking about the USB adaptor at kickoff they said that "you could use a Game Boy controller with it." What the @#@? were they thinking?

Andrewpbhs

07-01-2007, 14:51

i like the 3D extreme controller style...eliminates the need for a firing box >.>

Also...You could barely start a Dragonforce Solo anf every robot on the field would explode...

Red Mage

07-01-2007, 16:09

The PS2 Eye Toy, that'd be great.

Zero-Bee

07-01-2007, 18:12

When they were talking about the USB adaptor at kickoff they said that "you could use a Game Boy controller with it." What the @#@? were they thinking?

Well, you have to give Dave a Break. He can put a rover on Mars, but I'll bet he doesn't have much time for video games. =P

Or, he confused the PSP for the Game Boy (which isn't hard for most old people) . How cool would it be to use the PSP, with real time stats and data on the screen?

chris31

07-01-2007, 18:34

Well, you have to give Dave a Break. He can put a rover on Mars, but I'll bet he doesn't have much time for video games. =P

Or, he confused the PSP for the Game Boy (which isn't hard for most old people) . How cool would it be to use the PSP, with real time stats and data on the screen?

The screen would be much harder to implement but you could always wire the buttons from a gameboy to the OI.

Davey360

07-01-2007, 18:52

You cannot use a PSP or a gameboy because all power must be provided by the OI and the PSP and gameboy etc. use battery packs to run which is not allowed.

Greg Marra

07-01-2007, 18:59

chris31

07-01-2007, 19:16

You cannot use a PSP or a gameboy because all power must be provided by the OI and the PSP and gameboy etc. use battery packs to run which is not allowed.

I dont know how much power the screen uses but it might be possible to power it from the OI. The buttons would be wired to the OI without need for external power.

The USB Chicklet is the only device allowed to be powered in your controls.

I find this somewhat unfair that thats the only device that can be powered from external source and that if i wanted to create my own or something similiar it couldnt be powered by an external source.

raymaniac

07-01-2007, 19:44

I want to use my Game Boy! :D

Seriously, the only thing I thought of was my Logitech game controller, which is currently hooked up to my computer and is being used to play LEGO Star Wars 2.
My ideas are so boring.

JamesByrne

08-01-2007, 00:23

ok is the website that we are getting these from "http://www.crosstheroadelectronics.com/USB-Chicklet.htm" or am i some how screwed up. If you would let me know thanks.

DanDon

08-01-2007, 00:53

You can buy these on the IFI website here. (http://www.ifirobotics.com/usb-chicklet.shtml)

BlackShadowFox

08-01-2007, 01:21

Does anyone know if you could use a usb splitter to allow more game controllers?
or would i have to buy more and risk the large rush on ordering?

i wonder when they are just going to make the operator interface just usb?

i know i want to do a combination of ddr pads with Playstation and xbox 360 controllers.

Mike Copioli

08-01-2007, 08:38

What worries me about the USB Chicklet rule wording is this:

The USB Chicklet is the only device allowed to be powered in your controls.

However, the USB Chicklet has to provide power to a USB device, as per the USB specification, up to 500mA.

[QUOTE=Greg Marra;550280] If I build my own custom USB device that is USB HID compatible, I have just constructed a powered control element that doesn't violate any of the rules. I could power a PIC microcontroller and hook it straight into my OI, but it would be within the rules.

Sounds a bit strange to me.

This is a very good point. This is exactly what we had envisioned when the Chicklet was developed. There is one concern when the original rule was created(pre-chicklet). I'm sure IFI did not want TEAMS to interface custom devices that could potentially short out and damage the O/I. However, If the chicklet is supplying the power, this should not be an issue. Lets say a team does design a custom USB device, and it does short. The only hardware at risk is the Chicklet. Omar and I had even discussed development of a USB device breakout. Teams could use it to wire in pots and switches. Another option: Teams could take an existing supported controller (OTS) and rip it's guts out, wire in the pots/encoders, switches of thier choice, and use it in competition. Teams have modified joysticks in the past. Why should this be any different? Hopefully this can be clarified. Teams should be able to develope their own USB devices that can connect to the Chicklet.

Mike Copioli
CTRE

Mike Copioli

08-01-2007, 08:42

Does anyone know if you could use a usb splitter to allow more game controllers?.

No, a "splitter" is considered a HUB. Hubs are not supported. However we will be coming out with a version that does support HUB.

Mike Copioli
CTRE

cgredalertcc

08-01-2007, 10:06

my personal opinion on game controllers is that they are a bad idea. One of the best drivers our team has seen in its existence doesn't own a gaming system other than his PC. I am co captain of the team and I really wish I could just say no game controllers, but its what the team wants not what I want. The game controller could also create issues because you could have excess functions. Just a thought, have you seen the people that play video games by moving the controller even though it doesn't do anything? Can you say control board to the floor?

xMarkThePiratex

08-01-2007, 10:23

one 3 letter word...

WII

enuf said

Trample-Bot

08-01-2007, 11:32

our team is thinking about the wired 360 controller.... it seems like a much better idea than tryig to fiddle with multipe joysticks and multiple drivers controlling different parts of the robot

underwood

08-01-2007, 12:43

ok, list of things that sound cool, regardless of FIRST legality or interface (because denial is awesome):

wii-mote
DDR mat
eyetoy
keyboard FPS style
xbox 360
anyone else?

cgredalertcc

08-01-2007, 21:32

WII mote is powered sorry to burst your bubble.

SkiMasterATV

08-01-2007, 23:58

I think either the EyeCandy camera or the microphone from karaoke revolution... if only.... [sigh]

raymaniac

14-01-2007, 19:56

One of the best drivers our team has seen in its existence doesn't own a gaming system other than his PC.
Couldn't you use a keyboard (or a PC game controller if he's used them)?
Just a thought, have you seen the people that play video games by moving the controller even though it doesn't do anything? Can you say control board to the floor?

I do that all the time. Thats why there's a Wii.

bear24rw

14-01-2007, 20:03

It would be cool to have a force feedback joystick, then add an accelerometer on your robot and when you run into things it rumbles.. that would be interesting

cgredalertcc

14-01-2007, 20:11

I do that all the time. Thats why there's a Wii.

ahh but the wireless wii controller doesn't run on nothing.

NeedMoreEngines

14-01-2007, 21:20

Would a DualShock Controller (the ps2 ones) count as a powered controller? I mean, it has that light in the center and the rumble feature. Also, if you look on the plug that goes into the console, there's a tiny metal contact on the top.

What do you think?

Cuog

14-01-2007, 22:02

As long as they draw power only from the OI its ok

cgredalertcc

15-01-2007, 10:07

but that completely defeats the "wireless" idea. My point was that anything corded could casue you to pull your control board off of the shelf, and it would also give you the ability to step outside the driver's box. penalty?

Denman625

23-01-2007, 17:43

And to make the robot spontaneously combust you play any Dragonforce solo.

haha, heck yes... Dragonforce! i think guitar hero would be a sweet controller but the first thought that came to my mind was DDR mats... just for some random capabilities ya know? that would be saweeeeet :yikes: