pic: Height on top of a tube

[Jeff Rodriguez]

[cdm-description=photo]26184[/cdm-description]

[Fuzzy]

How heavy is that robot, and does it seem like the tube is going to burst if any more weight/pressure was added?

[Alex Cormier]

sweet!

[Jeff Rodriguez]

How heavy is that robot, and does it seem like the tube is going to burst if any more weight/pressure was added?

That robot weighs 120lbs.
Could the tube support more weight? Probably.
Would I put more weight on the tube? No.
You don't want to risk popping the tube. As pictured, the tube didn't seem close to popping.

Aren't your wheels the lowest point on the robot? So what's the measurement from the wheels?

The tape reads 5" at the bottom of the base. The wheels are the lowest, they're at 4.5"


Also, we used the 2005 robot because the base is very flat and distributes the weight of the robot fairly evenly across the tube.

[KTorak]

Do you plan on using this to score bonus points?

If so, I hate to say it, but Rule <G56> says ROBOTS in HOME ZONE - ROBOTS score bonus points at the end of the match if they are entirely in their HOME ZONE, not in contact with any element of the field (carpet, alliance station, goal etc.) and the lowest point of the ROBOT is higher than 4 inches and/or 10 inches above the carpeted field surface.

[Jeff Rodriguez]

Do you plan on using this to score bonus points?

If so, I hate to say it, but Rule <G56> says ROBOTS in HOME ZONE - ROBOTS score bonus points at the end of the match if they are entirely in their HOME ZONE, not in contact with any element of the field (carpet, alliance station, goal etc.) and the lowest point of the ROBOT is higher than 4 inches and/or 10 inches above the carpeted field surface.

As I said in the picture description, we're still not sure if its legal. It depends on whether the tube is considered as an element of the field. We will post this question to the Q&A when it becomes available.

[Jonathan Norris]

I have a funny feeling that the GDC did not have this in mind when designing the game... Very interesting use of the field elements. But this also brings the question if the tubes will be filled up enough to carry the weight like that, and if the tube pops will you get a penalty?

[Meredith Rice]

I have a funny feeling that the GDC did not have this in mind when designing the game... Very interesting use of the field elements. But this also brings the question if the tubes will be filled up enough to carry the weight like that, and if the tube pops will you get a penalty?

I would argue that they did consider exactly this strategy of gaining bonus points, due to the convenient height of the 4.5" above the ground as shown in the picture. I will be very interested if this method of elevating is allowed. This strategy was my initial reaction to the elevation bonus points, however it seems to me that it would not always be garanteed that your tube would give you 4" of clearance every time due to the inflation variability. Also, the probability of the tube popping is definately higher, so it is rather risky and I don't think the officials would appreciate having to replace tubes for every time this strategy is attempted.

[ChuckDickerson]

If this were legal then it would be possible for all three robots on an alliance to be suspended at the same time. It is pretty clear by the scoring rules that this is not possible.

[hallk]

We took plywood and three mentors on a tube and it didn't pop. That would be pretty close to the weight of 3 robots but it was less then 4 inches.

[+()c|D]

I think the tube is concidered part of the field elements, but if it isn't it would be great to see the use of this tactic. :D

[redbarron]

We thought of this today before we left and i tend to think that they are going to consider the ringers game elements, and if you could do this i guarantee there is going to be a tube popped too often for them to let it continue. Though they seem strong enough to hold the weight of the robot when the bottom is flat has anyone tried putting between 100 and 120 lbs. of force onto a sprocket or other object that is likely to stick out from the bottom, and see whether it pops.

[Conor Ryan]

Do you plan on using this to score bonus points?

If so, I hate to say it, but Rule <G56> says ROBOTS in HOME ZONE - ROBOTS score bonus points at the end of the match if they are entirely in their HOME ZONE, not in contact with any element of the field (carpet, alliance station, goal etc.) and the lowest point of the ROBOT is higher than 4 inches and/or 10 inches above the carpeted field surface.

As I said in the picture description, we're still not sure if its legal. It depends on whether the tube is considered as an element of the field. We will post this question to the Q&A when it becomes available.

I thought about this idea with a few other people myself, it's legality depends how you interpret G56, is a Game Piece considered part of the Field? If it isn't part of the field, then go ahead and prop yourself up on 1 or 2 of those and get 15 points.

[Barry Bonzack]

I thought about this idea with a few other people myself, it's legality depends how you interpret G56, is a Game Piece considered part of the Field? If it isn't part of the field, then go ahead and prop yourself up on 1 or 2 of those and get 15 points.


I wonder if propping yourself up on two of these would be considered "herding" or being "in posession" of two ringers? Gut instinct says that they are considered part of the field anyway.

[Brandon Holley]

i recall reading a rule in which it referred to the tubes as scoring objects and not part of the field...let me see if i can find it

[mluckham]

We took plywood and three mentors on a tube and it didn't pop. That would be pretty close to the weight of 3 robots but it was less then 4 inches.

You must have younger mentors - the older ones are correspondingly heavier :yikes:

If 3 mentors were on TWO tubes laid side-by-side, would they be higher than 4 inches then?

[JaneYoung]

You must have younger mentors - the older ones are correspondingly heavier :yikes:

If 3 mentors were on TWO tubes laid side-by-side, would they be higher than 4 inches then?

This is my very first Rack 'N' Roll laugh so hard you get the hiccups quote.
Sad thing is, it's true.

[Jeff Rodriguez]

As per team update #1

The sentence “ROBOTS score bonus points at the end of the match if they are entirely in their HOME ZONE, not in contact with any element of the field (carpet, alliance station, goal, etc.) and the lowest point of the ROBOT is higher than 4 inches and/or 10 inches above the carpeted field surface” has been changed to “ROBOTS score bonus points at the end of the match if they are entirely in their HOME ZONE, not in contact with any element of the field (carpet, alliance station, goal, etc. - note that for the purposes of this rule, GAME PIECES are considered field elements) and the lowest point of the ROBOT is higher than 4 inches and/or 12 inches above the carpeted field surface.”

So, this would be illegal.
Hmm, now what?

[65_Xero_Huskie]

i recall reading a rule in which it referred to the tubes as scoring objects and not part of the field...let me see if i can find it

Just changed in team update.

7.3.6

Not allowed to sit on tube. almost every team hates to hear this :ahh:

[Mike Norton]

<G08> Obtaining GAME PIECES - ROBOTS may obtain GAME PIECES via any of the following methods:Accepting a KEEPER prior to the start of the match as detailed in Rule <G04>Picking up RINGERS from the opposing ALLIANCE HOME ZONE that were placed there prior to the start of the match Grasping RINGERS or SPOILERS that have been placed in the CHUTE by the HUMAN
PLAYER Picking up RINGERS or SPOILERS from the playing field surface
Removing a SPOILER from a HANGING position on the RACK


if a tube is a field element then you could not grab it. do to rule

G33> Field interaction - ROBOTS may push or react against any elements of the field, provided there is no damage or disruption of the field elements. ROBOTS may not grab, grasp, grapple, or attach to any field structure. If a ROBOT violates this rule, the head referee will give one warning. If the referee determines that the TEAM is disregarding the warning, their ROBOT will be disabled for the remainder of the match.

So the tube is a game piece and would fall under those rules and not the element rules.


So if you drop one tube on another, that is not herding because you only had one tube on your robot at a time. then if you climb on one tube you still have not touched both tubes this will get you up over the 12"

unless they make a new rule I think this would work.


"Sorry did not look at the update"

[Elgin Clock]

Just changed in team update.

7.3.6

Not allowed to sit on tube. almost every team hates to hear this :ahh:

And every Referee loves to hear this cause it means less time between matches seeing if a robot is floating at the right height on a tube, and the field reset crew loves to hear this cause this means less chance to break a tube/ less time to reset the field.

Oh well.
:(

[overlord]

Personally, I feel this rule is a good one because it will create less controversy. Plus it will challenge us more to create robots that will be able to get those extra bonus points.