Define A Wedge [Archive]

T3_1565

09-01-2007, 16:27

Now all this talk about ramps has me wondering. What is FIRST's idea of a wedge??? Now I went and searched the definition and it gave me a few:

-any shape that is triangular in cross section.

-something solid that is usable as an inclined plane (shaped like a V) that can be pushed between two things to separate them.

This two can be completely different in a robot sense. Now which do you think FIRST means by a "Wedge". And If you have a better definition I'd be glad if you posted it.

Thanks,
1565

Billfred

09-01-2007, 16:33

Now all this talk about ramps has me wondering. What is FIRST's idea of a wedge??? Now I went and searched the definition and it gave me a few:

-any shape that is triangular in cross section.

-something solid that is usable as an inclined plane (shaped like a V) that can be pushed between two things to separate them.

This two can be completely different in a robot sense. Now which do you think FIRST means by a "Wedge". And If you have a better definition I'd be glad if you posted it.

Thanks,
1565
I'll tell you exactly what FIRST means by a wedge:

<R05> "Wedge” ROBOTS are not allowed. ROBOTS must be designed so that interaction with
opposing ROBOTS results in pushing rather than tipping or lifting. Neither offensive nor
defensive wedges are allowed. All parts of a ROBOT between 0 and 8.5 inches from the
ground (the top of the BUMPER ZONE) that are used to push against or interact with an
opposing ROBOT must be within 10 degrees of vertical. Devices deployed outside the
ROBOT footprint should be designed to avoid wedging. If a mechanism or an appendage
(e.g. a harvester for retrieving GAME PIECES) becomes a wedge that interferes with other
ROBOTS, penalties, disabling, or disqualification can occur depending on the severity of the
infraction.
I intend to move a ruler around our entire robot this year to see if anything below the 8.5" mark could be interpreted as such.

AV_guy007

09-01-2007, 16:33

the wedge rule is no longer counted when you are in the home zone and trying to lift up another robot. therefor when you deploy your ramp at the end of the match you are not breaking any rules.

T3_1565

09-01-2007, 16:52

yeah I know that. But my design is not nessacary a ramp. So by reading this rule would on think that a platform that is between these measurements (0 - 8.5 inches) with a flat edge on it, be considered legal?

Tristan Lall

09-01-2007, 17:06

They've made an excellent change to the wedge rule, from the way it appeared last year. And I'm not talking about the home zone exemption. It used to restrict parts "that might push against another robot"; now it covers parts "that are used to push against or interact with an opposing ROBOT".

Under the old rule, pretty much every robot was theoretically illegal, in some insignificant way. Now, you've got to actually wedge something to cause a violation.

ttedrow

10-01-2007, 08:57

yeah I know that. But my design is not nessacary a ramp. So by reading this rule would on think that a platform that is between these measurements (0 - 8.5 inches) with a flat edge on it, be considered legal?

Here my interpretation. Anything in the 0” to 8.5” range the may lift an opposing robot (offensive or defensive) off of its wheels is a wedge.

MattB703

10-01-2007, 09:40

Here my interpretation. Anything in the 0” to 8.5” range the may lift an opposing robot (offensive or defensive) off of its wheels is a wedge.

I would ammend that slightly. I would say that anything in the 0" to 8.5" range must be within 0-10° of vertical.

DonRotolo

10-01-2007, 10:41

I agree with Matt.

amateurrobotguy

10-01-2007, 17:10

If your design could easily lift any part of a bot off the ground, it can't be used on the field (excluding alliance zones). It was actually last year that they added this rule. There was this huge argument thread here bout it too. I said that it counted as robot entanglement, which was an existing rule. Soooo, looks like my argument won as they expressly forbid wedge use.

T3_1565

10-01-2007, 17:30

Ahh I see ok that helps thanks. My design cant lift robots until I want it to but it is fiarly thin. so it should be allowed.. if not there is an easy fix lol

Dominicano0519

10-01-2007, 18:00

What if i have a wedge but i cover about 5 inches with lets say polycarb would it be considered legal u think?

Greg Needel

11-01-2007, 11:14

I am trying to figure out if this counts for inverse wedges also, like an angled section to make it easier to climb robots. see drawing below...

http://www.team73.org/ideas/wedge.jpg

MattB703

11-01-2007, 11:21

I am trying to figure out if this counts for inverse wedges also, like an angled section to make it easier to climb robots. see drawing below...

The way it is currently written, I am afraid the answer is yes, that would be illegal based on the wedge rule. This is an unfortunate oversight that did not seem to get corrected from last years rule.

Matt B.

ttedrow

11-01-2007, 11:22

I am trying to figure out if this counts for inverse wedges also, like an angled section to make it easier to climb robots. see drawing below...

http://www.team73.org/ideas/wedge.jpg

The quick answer is YES this is a wedge. It looks to be greater than +/- 10 degrees of vertical.

65_Xero_Huskie

11-01-2007, 11:41

Almost every year we put wheelie bars on our robot and we have to modify them to make sure they dont get us penalized. A blatant wedge that is on your robot, or something that isnt designed to prevent robots would be considered a wedge imo.

Rick

11-01-2007, 12:06

Inverse wedges will help climb. Should not be allowed according to the rules though. But last year, I know a couple team who followed the 12 feet per second rule and some that did not. It wasn't fair but people still did it. Same thing will happen this year with these type of machines. People will make them and inspectors will not see a problem.

Drew

11-01-2007, 13:41

Ok a wedge... Anything that Team 302 does not create is not a wedge. In previous years at least. The wedge rule was made because of team 302. We kept getting penalties because other robots would drive up our wedge and tip over. they kept calling it a wedge and Lift but we never did the and lift so just make sure the wedge is 10 degrees or less

amateurrobotguy

11-01-2007, 21:21

The quick answer is YES this is a wedge. It looks to be greater than +/- 10 degrees of vertical.

Technically, it is a wedge. Think about this: you could drive on top of an enemy robot (un/intentionally) and smash their control board.

amateurrobotguy

11-01-2007, 21:22

Inverse wedges will help climb. Should not be allowed according to the rules though. But last year, I know a couple team who followed the 12 feet per second rule and some that did not. It wasn't fair but people still did it. Same thing will happen this year with these type of machines. People will make them and inspectors will not see a problem.

If you were seeing a problem, then report it and don't complain about it later. At our event, they speed tested EVERY lancher at full speed.