View Full Version : question about rules (size/orientation)
i was fairly sure that i read somewhere that when in the starting position, if your robot has anything that folds from the horizontal position to the vertical position it must have it in the vertical position for measuring the size of the dimensions.
can anyone confirm this? or is it just me?
- Bochek
Setsanto
19-01-2007, 17:08
Not quite. The actual rule specifies that a robot must be taller vertically than horizontally, and must not exceed the 6-foot footprint. Other than that, you're good to go.
The robot must start with a foot print of no larger than 28 x 38. The height depends on weight or vice versa. 6 ft = 100 lb. 5 ft = 110 lb. 4 ft = 120 lb.
sanddrag
19-01-2007, 17:14
The actual rule specifies that a robot must be taller vertically than horizontallyOh really? I think not. There are no minimum dimensions for the robot.
DonRotolo
19-01-2007, 17:18
No, there are no minimums specified (although there is a practical minimum), but there is one rule relevant:
<G29> ROBOT orientation - ROBOTS must start the match with their long (maximum) dimension in a vertical orientation. After the start of the match, ROBOTS may change their orientation such that the long dimension is either vertical or horizontal. Refer to Rule <R37> in Section 8 to determine how this affects the use of bumpers.
To me that means that a robot must have its longest dimension in the vertical plane. This may affect low rolling "bricks", but can be easily cured with a tall, thin and flexible 'antenna' (maybe a flag holder?) that is taller than any other robot dimension.
Don
Setsanto
19-01-2007, 17:21
No, there are no minimums specified (although there is a practical minimum), but there is one rule relevant:
To me that means that a robot must have its longest dimension in the vertical plane. This may affect low rolling "bricks", but can be easily cured with a tall, thin and flexible 'antenna' (maybe a flag holder?) that is taller than any other robot dimension.
Don
Explained quite alot better than how i did.
This rule is for robots that flop down. You can have a robot with a 50" wheel base if it is orientated vertically to start the game then flops down to be horizontal.
DonRotolo
19-01-2007, 17:29
This rule is for robots that flop down. You can have a robot with a 50" wheel base if it is orientated vertically to start the game then flops down to be horizontal.
Yes, but a 38 x 28 x 12 'rampbot' would need to start vertically.
so if i make a 48" long arm lay down on a 52 degree angle so that it only takes up 32" of vertical space is that allowed?
- Bochek
Yes, but a 38 x 28 x 12 'rampbot' would need to start vertically.
What you are reading is poorly written. The reasoning behind the rule is for flop down robots. FIRST does not intend for teams to have to "stand on their heads" to start the game. If all 4 wheels are on the floor and you fit into the foot print then you are OK. If you are uncertain please post the question in the Q&A forum on the FIRST website.
DonRotolo
19-01-2007, 17:35
If all 4 wheels are on the floor and you fit into the foot print then you are OK.
<G29> ROBOT orientation - ROBOTS must start the match with their long (maximum) dimension in a vertical orientation.
<snip>
I dunno, seems pretty clear to me.
The reasoning behind the rule is for flop down robots. FIRST does not intend for teams to have to "stand on their heads" to start the game.
How do you know that?
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How do you know that?
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I am not 100% sure that is why I mentioned to ask on the Q&A for an official answer.
EricLeifermann
19-01-2007, 17:45
The rule IS for flop down robots and always has been. In 2002 my previous team, Team 93, had a robot that was the max 28 X 38 though i think it was a little bit different dimensions that year but it was only like 15 inches tall, it did not have to stand on its side and then fall to its wheels. it for if your robots wheel base is like 28x60 then you must start with the 60 in direction vertical and fall down.
so then my plan follows the rules?
The rule IS for flop down robots and always has been. In 2002 my previous team, Team 93, had a robot that was the max 28 X 38 though i think it was a little bit different dimensions that year but it was only like 15 inches tall, it did not have to stand on its side and then fall to its wheels. it for if your robots wheel base is like 28x60 then you must start with the 60 in direction vertical and fall down.
And I will ask again: How do you know that? I have not seen any statements from FIRST that they do "not intend for teams to have to 'stand on their heads' to start the game." Nor have I seen a statement that says a 15-inch tall robot would have to flop over. So how do you know?
I have said it many times before, and I will probably say it many more times. Rules from prior FRC competitions DO NOT apply to this year! You can not assume that the wording, intent, meaning, or history of a particular rule that may have been used in prior years has ANYTHING to do with the rules that are in place this year. Sometimes the rules have a history, but many more times they are completely disconnected from prior years. Assumptions about the meaning, intent, and interpretations of prior rules are sure to do only one thing - lead you to incorrect conclusions.
So back to the original question. If the specific reason, impact and interpretation of a question is not clear, then there is only one thing to do. Ask about it on the FIRST Q&A system. Anything else will result in an unofficial answer, which is virtually worthless if you have to argue a point with an inspector or referee. If there is a realistic concern about whether a "short-bot" needs to start the match standing on it's nose, then the only responsible thing to do is ask the question and see what FIRST says. And if the intent of this (or any other) rule is not clear, then ask about it too.
-dave
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