Passing Ringers to Robot over the Wall

[nautica]

Is it legal to hold a ringer/spoiler over the alliance station wall and have your robot drive to it and pick it up directly from the human player's possession?

Rule <G48> says that they can be thrown over the wall, but does not specify if you can pass it like you would through the chute.

The reason I'm wondering is because our team's robot can not grasp ringers vertically through the chute, instead we planned to pick them off the ground when they are laying flat. Passing the ringers horizontally over the wall might be a faster way.

[Bharat Nain]

While there is no official answer, chances are they will call <S01> against you.

[KTorak]

Unless you have really long arms, you will not be able to hold it above the drivers and not step into the driver's area.

[Kellen Hill]

My team also plans on doing this, and if you look in Q&A you will find this

2) a human player passing a game piece over the top of the wall directly to a robot, assuming that neither the human nor the robot penetrate the plane of the alliance station wall.

[ALIBI]

Update 14 includes this:

"Rule <G48> has been updated to state that:

Only the HUMAN PLAYERS may enter a RINGER or SPOILER onto the field once
the TELEOPERATED PERIOD begins. This may be done by attempting to throw it to a ROBOT or onto the RACK, passing it through the CHUTE to a ROBOT, or passing it through the CHUTE for pickup by a ROBOT."


It sounds like the only "passing" of ringers or spoilers that will be allowed will be through the CHUTE. The human player could get close enough to the field to pass a ringer over the alliance station wall where the chute is located.

A calrification of whether or not a ringer can be passed over the alliance station wall may be needed in the Q & A.

[AV_guy007]

<G48> Entering GAME PIECES onto the field - Only the HUMAN PLAYERS may enter a RINGER
or SPOILER onto the field, either by attempting to throw it to a ROBOT or onto the RACK,
passing it through the CHUTE to a ROBOT, or passing it through the CHUTE for pickup by a
ROBOT. If GAME PIECES are thrown, they must be thrown over the top of the Alliance
Station Wall, and may not be thrown around the side of the Alliance Station Wall. Violations
of this rule will result in a 10-point penalty per GAME PIECE entered onto the field.

I think this rule means you can not place a ringer on your robot. it has to be thrown. In other words I would interpret this to mean if you are going over the alliance station the ringer must only have one point of contact (robot or human player) not both at the same time.

[Brandon Holley]

According to the head ref named Aiden (sp?) at winter warzone this is a LEGAL action that our team utilized very well.

[Kellen Hill]

According to Q&A you can hand it to your robot as long as neither breaks the plane of the field.

[ALIBI]

I do not disagree that the Q & A does say that passing ringers and spoilers over the alliance station wall is OK. I wonder why FIRST did not include passing a ringer or spoiler over the wall in the update?

You also need to consider G08 for obtaining game pieces.

<G08> Obtaining GAME PIECES - ROBOTS may obtain GAME PIECES via any of the following methods:
Accepting a KEEPER prior to the start of the match as detailed in Rule <G04>
Picking up RINGERS from the opposing ALLIANCE HOME ZONE that were placed
there prior to the start of the match
Grasping RINGERS or SPOILERS that have been placed in the CHUTE by the HUMANPLAYER
Picking up RINGERS or SPOILERS from the playing field surface
Removing a SPOILER from a HANGING position on the RACK

There is no mention of a robot obtaining a game piece by passing it over the alliance station wall. The Q & A seems to contradict G08.

If passing over the alliance station wall is OK, then would it be OK to pass around the side of the alliance station wall provided that neither the human player or robot breaks plane? I guess that one could argue that G08 doesn't say that.... ROBOTS may "only" obtain game pieces ..... and that there may be other acceptable methods to obtain a game piece. My hope is that for the teams planning on passing a game piece over the wall is that they will be able to do it.

[ALIBI]

I have a follow up safety concern. The alliance station wall is six feet six inches high. I can easily see a driver that tall standing above the controls leaning towards the wall getting smacked in the head by a manipulator breaking the plane. With the tetra's, the robot was disabled when a human player had close contact with the robot. After thinking about the safey concerns, I believe that G08 as written should be the only ways a robot can obtain a game piece for the safety of the players and coaches behind the alliance station wall. I would not want the ten point penalty the only thing a team would loose if a player was injured. That close of possible interaction between players and a live robot is not wise. In addition, there were penalties against the opposng alliance bumping a robot when is was in the loading zone picking up a tetra from a human player. I am not aware of any rule/penalty this year that would apply in this situation.

[EricH]

This has been asked in the Q&A.

http://forums.usfirst.org/showthread.php?t=1533

Now, if you think about it, is it worth the time? Would you be likely to get a penalty? Are you willing to take the penalty risk? Answer these for yourself.

[Tom Bottiglieri]

This has been asked in the Q&A.

http://forums.usfirst.org/showthread.php?t=1533

Now, if you think about it, is it worth the time? Would you be likely to get a penalty? Are you willing to take the penalty risk? Answer these for yourself.
One team on Einstein will use this loading method. Just puttin it out there now.

[petek]

One team on Einstein will use this loading method. Just puttin it out there now.Only one? ;)

[IndySam]

We will try it during practice. If it looks like we are even close crossing the plane with the gripper we will abandon the approach.

[akshar]

Unless you have really long arms, you will not be able to hold it above the drivers and not step into the driver's area.

there is no rule stating that human player can not be in the driver's zone.

[hpycmpr]

This question was posed again on 2-28 in the Q&A.

http://forums.usfirst.org/showthread.php?t=5542

The answer is again that it is legal to pass ringers over the wall.